William Plumlee

John: This was writen back in Oct 2004 by me. it may still be valid today in view of the "south knoll photo". But first. Do you have a good picture of the cancellare photo? The ones that have been published will do for what you have asked. ... the left side of the picture above the top of the car in the shadows, about half way up the hill to the right of the steps a few feet. You can see the shadow of a fork in the tree and if you look close you can see objects of different contrast that brake the shadow line of the trees on the right side of the fork tree shadow and on the left side of the tree shadow. Some people thing the fork tree shadow are legs. This is not the case. As for as the man in the truck we saw him as we left the plaza. Traffic was stoped. This spot where I have said we were has been marked for researchers many many times and has been printed in books and on this form. Perhaps some would like to post the location and a blow up for you. I have no way of posting pictures nor do I have a copy with me. The two photos you have posted.., the one on the right almost shows where we were standing..., you have cut out the forked tree shadow above the car behind the standing man, when you merged the two pictures hope this helps you. Previous posting on this forum as to this Photo.., approx Oct 2004: "... I have read most of the material that has been presented on this thread about the lights and shadows, a person there.., a person not there..., why he was there and why he was not there. All seem to present good points in their arguments. But all is just wild speculations as far as I am concern. Some have become so entrenched in their work that this subject matter has become their main focal point and they have become blinded to others valid points or none valid points and miss the whole picture. JFK was EXECUTED, in public. There is no simple answer. And lights and shadows, people there, and people not there brings us no closer to the truth, or identification, of who shot him, or how many additional shooters there were, if any. Now I will throw my spuculations into the fray. (1) I do not believe that there was a shooter anywhere near the north knoll; behind a fence; on a car hood; in the parking lot; behind a wall. I do not care what the "Experts" say. They have not proven their case to me beyond a resonable doubt. That goes for the South Knoll as well as the North Knoll locations. Today we have better equipment to photo work these pictures. That technique should be applied by professional personal.., example Law enforcement or private corp. that deal with such matters. What I think. What you think. And what the public has been led to think is of no value today. (2) I do not believe that a professional snipper team would place a shooter that close to the public with a rifle or a pistol. (within twenty five feet of people watching the motorcade and between the personal on the overpass and the kill zone.) If that WAS the case it would have been done by amatures and they would have been caught before they got away from their position. (3) I was there. I helped Sergio spot for that type of stuff. And there were others, from our team, who were at the North Knoll. I have been told by the expert researchers, over the years, that they (my team) were part of the assassination team and that I was also. B.S. That too, is speculation or their part and not a proven fact. I have never said that I know all the facts behind the assassination. But, I damn well know a few of them. If we had tried to interfer with the assins and "Take them out" , as some have said (if we had found them) Then a lot of innocent people would have been killed or hurt that day and the OPS and the background information of how it was obtained would have been compromised. It would have been a blood bath in the plaza. Our job was to interupt their timing and remain "in the background" None of this was to ever be known by the public. It was a military Covert Ops. Anyone ever associated with that type of warfare knows what that means. I hope this helps.. Its not meant to be critical. Thanks for all the information. Tosh...". end of previous post.

Victor Hugo Schiro served as Mayor of New Orleans from 1961-1969. http://specialcollections.tulane.edu/Schiro/Schiro.htm is it implied that this man was somehow involved in Drug running? Also note the following: The Jet Ranger civil mod 206A, powered by a 235kW (317shp) Allison C18A, first flew on January 10 1966. Deliveries of the first production Jet Rangers began late in that same year. (1966) In the early 1970's production switched to the Model 206B Jet Ranger II with a 300kW (400shp) 250C20 turboshaft, while conversion kits to upgrade earlier As to the new standard were made available. The third major variant of the JetRanger is the 315kW (420shp) 250C20B powered JetRanger III, with first deliveries commencing in late 1977. In the Berry and the Boys picture of Seal and implied mayor "Victor Hugo Schiro" of New Orleans is a Jet Ranger Two. (mfg 1972) How could this be if the picture in question was taken in 1963 or there abouts? And the helicopter was not even in production at that time. Can anyone explain this? For picture and history of the Ranger go to: http://www.flymfs.com/bell206.html Also can someone explain how the Registration N-6284? was issued to this helicopter in the 1960's when FAA record shows it being assigned to a helicopter in the early 70's. The picture at the night club is said to have been taken a few months before the assassination in 1963 and as I understand the helicopter picture of Seal and the mayor was taken about the same time. Is this a mistake in research or the publisher/editors? If so, what other mistake can be found in this work? Anyone care to comment?

[ reply from plumlee: Dawn: Jay once told me "...the fingerprint is much like your photo..". I replied. "...its not my photo...". "...but your in it...". "...how do you know...", I asked. "... I know. I just know". Sound like Jay?

If anyone else have more on this, I'd appreciate it. He certainly did get 'right' apparently 'seeing' in the photo things that Plumlee had told me [and that I did not tell to Wilson!] were there. Of course, he could have gotten that information from others and made it look impressive.....I don't know what to think at this point. If he did in fact give the photos and 'information' to 'law-enforcement' I can only think he was greatly misguided or acting against the best interests of moving the case forward...but I will withhold my final opinion on this until I know all there is to know. Peter plumlee reply: Thanks Pete: I received your Email. However, I make everything public now days. I have found some play fast and loose with the truth. ( not referring to you) and some things I have clarified in private does not seem to be correct when I see it again later in someones book or research. I do hope you understand. You know the drill and how the system works. You too, have paid your dues in that regard. No more secret stuff on my part. "Classified or otherwise". The first time I was back in DC was the day Iraq invaded ( I think it was August 2nd 1991). (or 90) Then about a year later in the Spring (May I think) was called back to clarify various points from the first session. The first time in August we talked off the record about that day in Dallas. The second time we went into closed session and the photo and other matters were discussed as well as other Contra matters. I ask them how they knew about the photo of the south knoll? They said they had obtained it from a "source". They also said it was hard to believe the parts about the "abort" story and some details about the day Kennedy was assassinated, of which I provided to them.. BUT in view of other information which had come to their attention from multiple sources and because of information they had received from others associated with the Iran-contra investigations they were looking into the Kennedy matter with a different view point. It was shortly after that my whole testimony Kennedy- Contra was classified Top Secret/Committee Sensitive and remains so today. They brought a large folder to the table marked TOP SECRET..., I had to re read everything they had transcribed concerning my testimony and initial each paragraph before it completed its classified status. When I ask to see the transcript some months later, I was told I could not see it because I did not have the necessary clearances. I never knew you had talked to Senator Kerry's investigators. However, the second time I testified was more about where Sergio and I were standing and why we were there. I was under the impression that most of their information about the south knoll photo had came from the FBI because of what was said to me about Roselli and the (FBI) not knowing for sure where he (Roselli) was that day or the day before the assassination. (reference the Phoenix Roselli file) I was told they had other information which confirmed much of what I told them. When I asked "...on the Contra matter?...". their reply was "... both; the Kennedy and the Contra...". I was told "...most of what we have is still being investigated and we cannot compromise that investigation at this time...". (something to that effect) Around that time I was shown a copy of the south knoll photo and ask again to point out where Sergio and I were standing. This I did. Another photo was put next to the first one. However the second one had been marked by me and was a copy from Shaw's book of which I had marked and given to you and Jim Marrs a few months (or year before) I felt betrayed and I was pissed at you, or whoever, for giving them the photo in the first place. Why has it been so important to discredit this photo and its source? To this day we do not know if someone was photographed in that photo or not. All I have ever asked for some years now was to have the photo checked. If "badge man" and other shadows" can be such a "focal point" then why not the south knoll photo? I do not know about Tom Wilson or his credibility. He was brought into this photo investigation by you and it looks like you got shafted. It seems the real negative was destroyed or lost by the FBI shortly after it was taken (reference DPD info from blank source relay by MI Fourth Army Reserve Dallas Love Field Co C 156 Tk Bat to Dallas PD) This I was told soon after I led investigators to the picture some years ago. I have no way of confirming any of this with a paper trail...hopefully we never left paper trails... Now it is about time for some to come forward and take issues with these postings, thus drawing away from any investigations as to that photo. That has been the MO for a number of years now. As far as I am concerned its a dead issue for me. I can no longer be of help in this Kennedy affair or the south knoll investigations. I have been contaminated and compromised. There is no paper trail... so it never happened... Right? And as 'Forest Gump has said. "Thats bout all I can say bout that". As to you second question. Anything I would have to say about that would be just speculations. There was talk but only rumors as far as I could tell. You know I would help you if I could. "YE'all write whens yous finds works"

Dawn; Good to hear from you. I do not mean ALL researchers into the JFK matter. However, its a shame that some who have big eggos seem to become the"point persons" and they soon become the final word as to what to believe and what not to belive.... kind of like "Lobbiest". Jay and I talked about this questionable photo many times and he was going to try and have one of his people who he was working with look into as well as the "fingerprint" copy he was working on. He wanted to talk with Tom Watson and I think he did. However, you know how cryptic Jay was when you asked him about something direct. Never did know for sure if he talked with Wilson or not. Jay told me he was trying to get a good negative.., from who or how I again never knew. "I'm working on it" was about all he would say. Any word on the "Rambler" ? Leslie asked me about it a few weeks ago. Seems other people are also trying to find it. Who or why, I have no idea. Leslie and Dig said it was still at the place where they had it towed. They have the hub caps and the pictures of Jay and I when we took it to the farm a year or two before Jay died....???? It seems when a lead does develope many seem to try and discredit the lead rather than investigate with an open mind.... its like some do not want new information to surface on this case... perhaps if it did and was proven then they would have to re-write their books and retract all their research and you know that would never happen...its their "Cash Cow". If you tell someone this is what I heard or think was said-- then it becomes written in stone. Thats why Jay was so cautious about what he said and how he said it. I have been told many things about Red Bird airport and who flew in there. And I too made the mistake passing it on as fact. When something is written or published then it becomes fact... right or wrong. Hear say becomes research references years later, because it is in print. Thanks again Dawn and lets keep Jay's memory alive. He was one of the honest researchers who stayed behind the sceans. Later Tosh

I have never gone public with this information and never even told you Tosh all the details. I did get an original uncropped cancellare - all others are cropped. I gave this copynegative to Tom Wilson [friend of C. Wecht I thought I could trust]. We had a signed agreement that the negative was to be returned to me along with his analysis. [He had a special computer program to enhance the photo and (he claimed) even identify the material reflecting the light - glass, metal, etc.]. Tosh, as you know we met at a hotel in Boulder, Colorado specifically to talk about this. Tom Wilson called me at the hotel and asked me questions of you in real time - based on his photo analysis. (I am in Europe now and don't have my original notes with me - though still have them elsewhere - so this is from memory...) Wilson said he saw two men on the South Knoll in the shadows in the area you had always said you were with your buddy that day in Dallas. He claimed further that he could make out in the enhancement a communication device matching others seen that day in size and shape. He further said he could see an optical device [binocular or monocular] held by the same [smaller, darker] man who held the communication device and that there was over the shoulder some rectangular photo-type case. There was more he could see in the photo including other locations and he promised to get me a written analysis, the photo enhancements and the negative back. I never got anything back!! I had two further phone calls with Wilson in which he described more of what he saw. He said the photo contained too much important information on the case to give back to me - that he wanted to use it as evidence in some trial....without being more specific. He demanded you tell him through me certain things before he returned the negative and the analysis report. You in turn wanted the anlysis before you answered any more of his questions. I was very upset and as you were getting angry at me - demanding the analysis I had promised - and unable to deliver it. I was in turn upset at Wilson for not keeping his agreement and denying me [and you and the world] whatever he had found. At about that time my own life underwent a 'collapse' and Wilson was less important than just survival. I did try through letters and calls to Wilson directly and through a few others who knew both of us to get the negative, enhancements and his analysis -but never did. I didn't know that you had spoken with him before he died. Can you tell a bit more of what he said in that conversation - either here on the forum or to me privately. If anyone in the Forum knows more about this matter, I'd be interested to know. If what Wilson claims he found are true, they would be rather significant [i am not putting it all here - as without any photo enhancements it is just speculation as to whether they can really be seen in the photos or not]. To my knowledge he never released his analyses on any of several photos. It is one of many examples of how other researchers can be even greater blocks to research and progress than the official disinformation/cover-up campaign. Sorry Tosh. Peter Plumlee: Thanks Pete for the clearification. I will try to keep this brief: I remember that day in Boulder well. It seemed to me that Wilson was not being honest with me and was trying to lead me into saying things I could not remember. Sergio did have a radio (not sure about the binoculars and he did have a concealed pistol) I had a clip board which we had drawn diagrams on earlier. (of which I had told you and Jim Marrs about earlier) I was not armed. This I told you and Wilson at Boulder. He (Wilson) told me that there were other images he had found in the picture and wanted me to tell him what they were. I wanted more information from him and you as to what those other images were. I was the one who lead you to the picture and you had Wilson to do photo work-- to try and prove there were two people at that location at the time of the shooting, thus proving a "front shoot" from the south knoll. He nor you would tell me (I see why now) what had been found. I was upset and thought I was being set up to confirm someone elses theroy and it was going to be used in their book or research. The object was to prove two people were standing in the shadows. If this had been proven as claimed by you and Wilson, I could not understand why the informationm was not being released. Yes, I was upset. I was more upset when Denver FBI came to Grant Colorado to talk to me about that picture. How did they know? I felt I was being set-up by you and Wilson and I told you so. And I told Jim Marrs also. It was at this point that I pulled away from all researchers and would not have anything futher to do with JFK matters. Then came along Joe West and the BS JF story, Oliver Stone and his BS story and a host of other BS planted stories and falsehoods. Some concerning me. Then came the IRS and attatched everything I owned (which was not a hell of a lot) A few years later and just before Tom Wilson died I got in touch with him and was told he, "... wanted to do more work before he released his findings..". I ask him if he would confirm for me that two people were standing at that location. He said there were two people standing there and he had found another person concealed near the railroad tracts and ask me about that person. That is when I was told, by Tom, copies of his work had been turned over to law enforcement and he would not release any information to me without their approval. I was mad as hell and felt betrayed and released, or tried to release, the picture you had obtained, to the public. I begged you and others to take a closer look at that picture. You told me it had been lost and your place had been broken into a most of your research had been removed. That is when all hell broke loose and I was discredited by a host of researchers... some of these "so-called experts" did not even try to prove or disprove..., or even look at the picture. They just said nothing was there. I knew then that this JFK research is nothing but BS in itself.... infiltrated by "special interest" type personal, including law enforcement on a national level, as well as publishers who want to make history rather than record history Not long after that I was called to DC to testifie about other matters. In DC the "south knoll" picture was shown to me by Kerry's people and I was asked about it. I refused to comment Pete. Its a lost cause the picture and the information behind it has become "contaminated" and is of no use. Thats the way I intend to leaveit. I learned "...don't cast you pearls before the Swine... ". ......we should put this to bed...... its of no value. Again thanks again for the clearification. Your Friend Tosh

The name David Lawrence Ferris... Delta airman records. Dave passed away a few years back. Papa Reeves of White Rock Aviation's son is still around and it is said remembers something about Garland and Smitty. However, its been "put to bed" as far as I am concerned. Here is a photo of the Stearman -220 that Dave Lawrence and I used to fly at White Rock/Garland. The old flight log still existed as of 1974 shortly before White Rock was closed down. Ferris's father owned this aircraft for awhile I think... Ya'll have a good one.... write when you find work.... PHOTO http://www.airfields-freeman.com/TX/Airfie...E.htm#whiterock A circa-1972 photo by Ken Adwan of a Stearman at White Rock. Ken recalled, "The Stearman was one of the old airplanes… at the back of the airport. However, unlike many of the old planes at that end of the field, it was very airworthy when this picture taken.” Russell Bowen recalled, “The Stearman belonged to a fellow named Mott Walters; he had two of them, a black & red one."

The name Warren Maupin is familar but I cannot place it. You know what happens when I speculate. The Flight out of Dallas was said to have been made by Dave (aka David) Ferris (not Dave Ferrie) as per Dave Ferris himself as told to other pilots around the Dallas area, including Smitty, shortly after the assassination. Smitty was one of these pilots, as I recall, who tried to correct the mistake to Garrison investigators and federal people for the HSCA. I am not sure of all the details, but it was well known around White Rock and Garland who the pilot was that flew a charter out of Dallas that day. However, over the years the Dave Ferrie story has stuck and cannot be undone. At one time a flight plan was released to investigators which stated 'Ferrie" It was proved false ( so I was told by FBI Denver) The flight plan was from a stack of new federal flight plan forms which came from Garland airport (as per form dates of 1963 found on lower bottom of FAA forum (aka the old CAB of the fifties) I have reason to believe that Dave Ferris flew someone out of Dallas Red Bird that day.., not Dave Ferrie. Ferris was a charter pilot in those days working out of Red Bird and White Rock.., if my memory serves me right he flew a 'Commache' type aircraft. There were two a red and white and blue and white. I used to have pictures of Ferris standing next to these aircraft at Red Bird next to the Hughes hanger. These pictures were burned in the house fire in Grant Colo in August 7th of 1981 (referenced Rocky Mountain News article by Tim Mc Govern) There is more drama to the JFK if the pilot is the infamous Dave Ferrie rather than an unknown Dave Ferris. It sells better.

Thanks James. I am sure thats him. I worked for Dallas Aero Service and Southwest Airmotive at Love Field. At one time Smitty taught (for a short time in 1949} at Dallas Aviation School just before the DC-6 flight 157 crashed into its hanger. Then I think he went to White Rock Aviation and worked for Pappy Reeves. Also "Toots" Womack had an operation at Love Field and I think Smitty worked for him for awhile, part time. Smitty is a very interesting person. I hope he is still around. Why, if I may ask, did you want to find him?

Tosh, Is the guy you refer to, T.M. Smith? James http://www.dallashistory.org/cgi-bin/webbb...g.pl?read=48198 xxx In Response To: Re: Abandoned Airports (Cee Cee) Plumlee: "..I took flying lessons at White Rock Aviation in 1953. "Smitty" was my flight instructor. I soloed at White Rock in June of 53. Dave Ferris and I used to fly the old 'underpowered' Steerman with its Continual 220 engine that Pappy Reeves (I think owned) The Devil's Speedway was racing a "figure 8" type race and I would forward slip my J-3 Cub over the track and land on the dirt strip at White Rock. I worked as a engine rebuild mech at Southwest Airmotive night shift Dallas love Field as a young lad of 14-15 while going to Alex W Spence Jr.High in Dallas. I also refueled aircraft at Dallas Aero Service and cleaned the hanger when I was 14. I would wash the airplanes and clean the windows for free rides in the Loadstar C-60's. I remember when an American Airline DC-4 I think crashed into Dallas Aviation School next to Dallas Aero Service. I went and poked around the weckage. I think this was about 1949 or 50 (could have been as early as 1948. I used to ride my bike to love Field from north Dallas and play in the old WW-2 B-17's aircraft parked at Henery Seal Aviation. Years later I became a pilot for Riddle Airlines of Miami and also with Inter-Mountain, Midland, SAT and a host of other government funded airlines of the sixties. In 1963 I flew into Red Bird airport from Garland airport on the day Kennedy was assassinated. ..". xxx Posted By: Shaun Braley <sbraley@flamingduck.com> Date: Wednesday, 17 May 2006, at 5:54 p.m. In Response To: Re: Abandoned Airports (William Plumlee) Is this the same Smitty (T.M. Smith) who's still around giving Practical Tests, these days? I've never met the guy but he's a legend around Addison Airport. xxx Posted By: Shaun Braley <sbraley@flamingduck.com> Date: Wednesday, 17 May 2006, at 10:42 p.m. In Response To: Re: Abandoned Airports (William Plumlee) Here's a comment someone made about Smitty on the AOPA forums: On my multi-instrument ride, a local guy named Smitty took me up in the Baron. He's got to be in his eightys, humble guy, met me for some ground work before we flew in his office. Behind him was a bunch of WWII memoribilia. I asked about it, he flew with the American Expeditionary Force in England; before that with the English--American Volunteer Group. Like a living history book. Walked to the plane with two cushions so he could reach the controls. Excellent stick and rudder guy that had me do exactly what he was supposed to. No problems. He did make a couple suggestions which were spot on. Sound like your instructor? xxx Posted By: William Plumlee <wplumlee2006@yahoo.com> Date: Wednesday, 17 May 2006, at 8:26 p.m. In Response To: Re: Abandoned Airports (Shaun Braley) "...IT COULD BE. I HAVE NOT SEE HIM IN OVER FIFTY YEARS. SOMETIME BACK WHEN I WAS AT RED BIRD AIRPORT I WAS TOLD HE WAS STILL AROUND AND ACTIVE IN AVIATION. THEY SAID HE LIVE NEAR FORNEY TEXAS. I WAS GOING TO LOOK HIM UP BUT I RAN OUT OF TIME. I SURE WOULD LIKE TO SEE HIM OR TALK TO HIM IF HE IS THE "SMITTY' WHO SOLOED ME AT WHITE ROCK IN 1953. THANKS FOR THE UPDATE. I WAS KNOW AROUND WHITE ROCK AIRPORT AS BOBBY PLUMLEE...". Background: previous plumlee quote: "... This person (TA Smitty Smith) was interviewed many years ago by federal authorites. He was my flight instructor in 1953 at White Rock Aviation in Dallas at White Rock. He at one time talked about that day but was made a fool and his reputation was tarnished because of what he said. His story has been hush-hushed by the experts because it never fit into their FASCTs??. When he was available nobody asked him about Garland or Ferris or Roselli? They did not want to know.., it interfered with thier speculations and "first hand" knowledge. For years he had the Operation records for Garland Airport and supplied copies to federal investigators. Somehow they got lost. DA. There is no way anyone can prove Roselli was in Dallas.... not even me. I have said that many times.... he could have been there for other reasons for all I know. He had been there in the spring of 63. It could have been a timing thing what I have said and anyone who knows how those OPS worked understands what that means.... In spite of what some think or might have said, I do not really care what the main stream thinks about the Plumlee/Roselli tale. I never came forward trying to prove anything. I have no motive. I kind of got SUCKED into this whole forty year plus thing by federal investigators of long ago. I do not do books or TV for money, nor care much for those who do. However, I do know enough to know this whole JFK thing has never been looked into from the right direction. I do know when various valid leads did or have surfaced an effort has been made to plug the source and tarnish the record and their facts. Its a real circle jurk. That is the way it is suppose to be. If its not written about or recordered in a book today... then it never happened... Right? We'll leave it at that for the next twenty years. Even if I supplied documentation, pictures, and solid proof and facts at this late date they would not be accepted. This whole toxic JFK is all for entertainment for those who have nothing better to do than stroke their eggos and add in their eyes value to their net worth. I can't really be of help in any way. Just pissing in the wind. (Good title for a project "The JFK Assassination ; Just Pissing in the Wind". Don't you have any faith in our government? Oswald did it all by his self/// case closed.... get over it.... ". link: http://www.dallashistory.org/cgi-bin/webbb...g.pl?read=48198 xxx

In case anyone feels they would like to research an event and establish facts in place of speculations/ there is an 88 year old pilot/ flight instructor from Dallas White Rock Aviation who has never been interviewed who, however, rebembers the "Dallas Flight" and the details of the Garland and Red Bird airport and John Rosellie being at Garland Texas the morning of the assassination. He remembers a 'Dave Ferris who has over the years become known as "Dave Ferrie" because some have wanted the record to show this. However, If this old bold pilot/ flight instructor was ever interviewed various speculations from the so called "experts" and their well researched books and movies would have to be re written and their books re-done because of what this man knows and can prove.. However, this interview will never happen, because the JFK matter has become a 'Cash Cow' for profit, speculations in place of truth. .., a profit ego venture for many so called experts in the JFK research field. The whole JFK investigation has become a cash crow envoirment.., entertainment and ego in the name of research looking for truth. Its really sad.

Al: Here is.., PART ONE OF YOUR QUESTION . reference: Roselli/ Plumlee FBI files I was asked to report the information I had and my concerns about my safety and that of Roselli to the local Phoenix FBI by Senator Berry Goldwater's security staff and the Phoenix Organise Crime Task Force. Because of my past associations with Rosellie and his previous testimony to the Senate and the fact information had been obtained that Rosellie was being called back to the committee again; it was felt that I should tell them (FBI) why I was concerned for his and my safety. I had been told by Johney Farentello in Florida, and othes in Florida, that Rosellie would never make it back to Washington to testifie.., nor would I. This was told to my associates in law enforcement and to various Senate investigative committes of the time. I was concern that I was going to be ask to report to the Committee and that is the reason I was talking with various Senators. If you notice the first meeting with the FBI was two or three days before Roselli was even reported missing. The FBI noted that I later said Roselli was the person I was refering to on the earlier meetings. Take notice that when they later came to my home in Phoenix (after Roselli's body had been found) they( the FBI) wanted me to tell them everthing I knew about Roselli. If I had never mention Rosellie to them or told them who I was concerned about... then why did they come asking me about what all I knew about Roselli's activites after his body had been found. Its in the record. I took two lie detector test and past both. One from the FBI and one from the Phoenix Organize Crime detail. The documentation was slanted by the FBI that I made all the contacts with them... However I was instructed to make those first contacts by local law enforcement.., and I might add that I was asked by the FBI to come back two or three more times to discuss the Roselli matters. I might add also that I was working Mexico UC operations with the Arizona Tri -State Drug Task Force, chaired by then Gov. Bruce Babbit at the time and it was important that my actitives not be known or compromised. It is said that I approached the FBI thus being the source of the information on the released documentation invalid.... therefore the documentation means nothing because it was after the fact, so they said. This was told to two Senate investigators who some years later ask me about the Roselli/Plumlee FBI 62 and CIA 105 files. Sometime after 1998 the FBI released another 225 pages concerning my activities through FOIA completely different than the FOIA released to Barnard Fenesterwald and Gary Shaw in 1981. As a result nothing was done to stop the killing of Roselli and others around that time. A few years later another similar Ops would result in the death of three good men. Scott Wheeler, KiKi Camaranda, and his pilot Alverez concerning the Drug War known as "The CIA Thing". Hope this helps clear a few things. Its very dangerous even today going in this direction. ..., even more dangerous that the JFK matter. I hope you understand. Tosh Reply was made to Tosh through private messaging and thread can now be closed without exception. Al Thanks Al. Got your message. I will not be posting or responding to questions on any Forums anymore. Of course thats No big loss! You take care and keep up the good work. If I can help in your research you know I will..... "CIP"-- Keep In Touch.., Your friend Tosh

Al: Here is.., PART ONE OF YOUR QUESTION . reference: Roselli/ Plumlee FBI files I was asked to report the information I had and my concerns about my safety and that of Roselli to the local Phoenix FBI by Senator Berry Goldwater's security staff and the Phoenix Organise Crime Task Force. Because of my past associations with Rosellie and his previous testimony to the Senate and the fact information had been obtained that Rosellie was being called back to the committee again; it was felt that I should tell them (FBI) why I was concerned for his and my safety. I had been told by Johney Farentello in Florida, and othes in Florida, that Rosellie would never make it back to Washington to testifie.., nor would I. This was told to my associates in law enforcement and to various Senate investigative committes of the time. I was concern that I was going to be ask to report to the Committee and that is the reason I was talking with various Senators. If you notice the first meeting with the FBI was two or three days before Roselli was even reported missing. The FBI noted that I later said Roselli was the person I was refering to on the earlier meetings. Take notice that when they later came to my home in Phoenix (after Roselli's body had been found) they( the FBI) wanted me to tell them everthing I knew about Roselli. If I had never mention Rosellie to them or told them who I was concerned about... then why did they come asking me about what all I knew about Roselli's activites after his body had been found. Its in the record. I took two lie detector test and past both. One from the FBI and one from the Phoenix Organize Crime detail. The documentation was slanted by the FBI that I made all the contacts with them... However I was instructed to make those first contacts by local law enforcement.., and I might add that I was asked by the FBI to come back two or three more times to discuss the Roselli matters. I might add also that I was working Mexico UC operations with the Arizona Tri -State Drug Task Force, chaired by then Gov. Bruce Babbit at the time and it was important that my actitives not be known or compromised. It is said that I approached the FBI thus being the source of the information on the released documentation invalid.... therefore the documentation means nothing because it was after the fact, so they said. This was told to two Senate investigators who some years later ask me about the Roselli/Plumlee FBI 62 and CIA 105 files. Sometime after 1998 the FBI released another 225 pages concerning my activities through FOIA completely different than the FOIA released to Barnard Fenesterwald and Gary Shaw in 1981. As a result nothing was done to stop the killing of Roselli and others around that time. A few years later another similar Ops would result in the death of three good men. Scott Wheeler, KiKi Camaranda, and his pilot Alverez concerning the Drug War known as "The CIA Thing". Hope this helps clear a few things. Its very dangerous even today going in this direction. ..., even more dangerous that the JFK matter. I hope you understand. Tosh

fm tosh plumlee; AL: Following is PART TWO of you question. PART ONE in reference to Roselli will follow after this section on KI KI because of the length of my reply. The following KI KI material , as you know, is still a real "touchy" matter, perhaps more so than the Roselli or the Kennedy assassination. Various sections of that whole KI Ki affair are still CIA classified as of today. However, some of the names are found embedded within Senator Kerry's investigations of old. Most of the details of those top secret UC operatives still hold the "classified secret-- committee sensitive", classifications as of today: Its for those reason I hold back to some degree. I'm sure you understand. However, bare with me and I will "tip-toe" through the mine fields on this and try to put into perspective the KiKI information as I know it. I did receive field reports and had discussed most of this with Scott and a few others before and after his death and that of KI Ki's. (reference Security advisor Bill Holden for Senator Hard and Senator Gary Hart, as well as the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, during the years of1983-88) After KiKi's death, I was told at the time, " it would be best for me if I just, 'moved along to other matters'. PART TWO OF YOUR QUESTION: KI KI reference"... http://www.phoenixarchives.com/express/1991/0591/13-06.pdf http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/DEAfiles.pdf DEA Mexico OPS: These documents make reference to "Guatemalan Guerrillas" training at a ranch owned by Drug Lord CARO- Quintero in Vera Crus, Mexico. It was reported at the time this was a CIA training site where weapons were exchanged for drugs in support of the Contra effort in Nicaragua and Costa Rico. DEA Agent Enrique Camarena (KIKI) and his pilot found out about this operation known as "The CIA Thing" and were killed because of this knowledge. Plumlee and other American undercover pilots had flown into this ranch many times as reported in various sections within these documents and other news media leaks in Mexico and America. The operation was known as "AMSOG" and, as reported to Senator Gary Hart and his Senate investigators in early 1983, was an "illegal" smuggling operation through Mexico into the United States, supported by the US Military, Panama Southern Command. ". Background information concerning above: Within the Special Agent Wayne Schmidt and Hector Berrellez declassified "SECRET" documents (from above link) contains the first indication of what Ki Ki had found out through a CIA undercover pilot, "Scott Wheeler", who was later ed murdered at a drug run airstrip in Central America known as, "Poco Solo". Scott had infiltrated the Ochoa/Escobar cartel through "Setco Aviation" and was reporting back to CIA and DEA through his "Case Officer" "Deno Fernande's". He had given KiKi and the Mazatlan DEA copies of documents and notes that alleged CIA involvement in drug smuggling for the contra resupply network. I had copies received from Scott that I gave to the Arizona Tri-State Drug Task Force, through the Phoenix Organized Crime Task Force. (Sgt Ed Salem.., now ret and Sgt. Harry Hawkins.., also retired. note: Scott Wheller was be-headed at Poco Solo because of a "Black book" with names and places he had recoded. He kept his notes in this book secreted in his boot. When he was about to leave on a flight from Poco Solo to the United States through Mexico, and had recorded details of operation " Overflight " in his book, he was approached by two of Carro Quintero and Ochoa's hit men and executed at the Poco airstrip. He had already past information to KI KI on two or three other occasions. This was the beginning of KI KI and his pilot "Alvarez" (?) demise. Scott' headless body was loaded in his "Areocommander" type aircraft and flown through Mexico back into the United States. Scott and his aircraft were abandon not far from Eagle Pass Texas. A warning note to the DEA was attached to the body. The DEA, Miami received full reports before and after this affair from Scott and other field operational personal of the time. However, these reports were "tampered" with and some withheld in part by persons unknown within the south Florida DEA/CIA (???) This information was also past to a Mexican reporter who was working on drug corruption in and through Merico and the United States southwest region which involved CIA "Black" operations of the time. This reporter (Manuel Buendia Tellegiros)) was also murdered. (as noted within the DEA Berrellez document) When the DEA Mexico Mazatlan and Guadalajara DEA offices ( from-Ki Ki's office) requested information they had received from military CIA operatives in the field-- and the AMSOG region including Scott Wheeler's information to Ki Ki and Guadalajara DEA and ask for help and information from the Mexican government on those arrested, a set up (fake raid by the Mexican DFS) was launched where a "shoot out" with other Mexican federal authorities was staged at a ranch north east of Guadalajara. Over forty innocent Mexican agents and civilians were massacred. Information was planted at the site to throw DEA investigations in other directions. Shortly after, KiKi's body and that of his pilot were found not far from this ranch. It was evident they had been move there after being murdered at another place in Mexico a few days before. References: Shaggy Wallace DEA retired and Jammie ?? also retired and Michale Levine DEA also retired. Sgt. Ray Lamberson aid to Senator Berry Goldwater's security detail Arizona Department of Public Safety, retired. John Winner and Dick McCall Senator Kerry's staff investigators of 1990. I hope this helps in some way. Good to hear from you . Thanks, Tosh

For anyone interest in Roselli, who has just recently got into researching the JFK assassination, following are a few links to the actual FBI pages with their date and file location numbers. This is about one third of the total pages released in 1981 and 1991, pertaining to the Roselli/Plumlee FBI Phoenix file. The FBI has two different sets of documents on Plumlee which contradict each other. At the time 1976-78 it was important that the real story behind Roselli's disappearance and murder not be known. That was the reason for two different sets of files. A close look at these files will show a form of "tampering with the record" or whitness, during that time frame: http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi9396.PDF http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi1.PDF http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi2.PDF note: one documents says "... money taken by Agents...". While another FBI documents sats ".. only an old pair of binoculars was found...". http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi3.PDF http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi4.PDF http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi5.PDF http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi6.PDF http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi7.PDF http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi8.PDF http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi9n.PDF http://toshplumlee.info/pdf/fbi9o.PDF

The decision to become an investigative journalist was the result of my experiences as an FBI agent from 1951 to 1961. I had worked criminal and counerespionage cases, and was appalled at J. Edgar Hoover's refusal to face up to organized crime and by running an arbitrary disciplinary machine forced out the brightest agents best equipped to cope with security threats. I wrote letters to Congress seeking a Congressional investigation of Hoover's conduct and priorities, thus becoming the Bureau's first whistle-blower. After decamping, I continued on the mission by writing a book, "Hoover's FBI," which opened up the subject to media discussion and eventuated in some change. I have written ten books now, some of which have been brought out in Spanish, French, Russian, Japanese, Polish and United Kingdom editions. In 1964 I was outraged when J. Edgar Hoover lashed out at Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., a Nobel Peace Prize winner, as "the most notorious xxxx in the world" and sat down to write an article "After J. Edgar Who?" The piece was published by Ramparts magazine, launching my career writing for periodicals I must say I was greatly aided by my experience in investigating, writing complex reports and developing informants and sources. Reply From William Plumlee (Tosh) Bill: I never told you or Warren Hinckle what all happened to me after the San Francisco interview of 1976 on the Pawley and Bayo affair. IRS came knocking in Phoenix just before Rosellie was murdered was one of many negative events. In 1981 after Barnard Fenesterwald Jr . obtained my 480 page FBI files through FOIA while I was working on two books "The Black Knights of Cuba" and "Deep Cover-Shallow Graves", my home in Grand Colorado was burned down; supporting research and documentation were burned and removed before the fire. (some of the burned pages were released by FOIA FBI request of 1987. I believe you and Hinckle were working on Deadly Secrets at the time or had finished by then . Shortly after that the publisher withdrew his commitment on Deep Cover-Shallow Graves. Some years later the rough draft of both these books were released by abother FOIA scan request to the FBI/DoJ who had obtained copies through CIA. All that is not important these days. However, there is enough documented evidence to prove how "Mockingbird' worked in my case; and too, which also proves how my military and FBI files were doctored and to some degree discredited and scattered to law enforcement and the media. As I have said it is not important these days. The damage has been done. I just wanted you to know in my eyes you are one of the real heros of that time even though you were FBI. As with the CIA there was some damn good people within those ranks of the CIA, MI, and FBI. Its a shame those individuals were forced to play "politics" with truth. This post has been edited by William Plumlee: Today, 06:40 AM --------------------

[RJS "...As I've said for a few years now, and begging your indulgence, Lamp Post Man was the CIA case officer pictured at Long Tieng Laos, who may have been named Bobby Castillo-Leon. The comparison is much more than coincidental...". RJS XXXXX RJ: In the photo "Orville Nix Version 2 (AVI.225 MB) found at site http://www.jfk-online.com/1nix.html...can you or anyone tell me anything about the man standing in the background above the crowd in the front of the Limo after Kennedy was shot? Anything like name... Interview... etc. I was told last week by an investigator that this person was sent in to "observe". Any help on ID would be appreciated.

RJ: For the sake of argument if we assume he was there as one of the assassins or had something to do with the assassins... then could it not be possible that he was there as part of an"abort" project? You mentioned "Team Five" was that an OMC S/A Laos team? embedded within a 'MASOG', or "MASOG hit Team" If you check records some of those boys were attatched to CIA Miami station at one time and assigned to early OMC/CAG operations of the time (Operation Military Covert; sometimes known as a Covert Action Group attatch TDY to CIA operastions by the pentagon) If we allow ourselves to think he was a possible hitters... then can we not allow ourselves to think that he was there for other reasons? This post is Not intended to start a debate but just a question.

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Thanks Walt: Jay told me about the same thing a few months before he died. I too, have a lot of his files for safe keeping and will hold his trust. Jay was my friend. Together we worked many issues concerning my family and background. We first met in Dallas at the "It' l'do" club in ythe late fifties when he was a reserve police doing UC work concerning the Dallas Clan. Anyway he was a friend and he did confide his fears and concerns to me many times in his closing days. You will find bits and pieces of my background in his files as well as classified CIA documentation of the sixties. I do hope you will do something positive with Jay's work. Tosh

Mark; With all due respect. I have never said I believe that Files was a shooter that day. Wim and Jim Marrs and Zack Shelton and other researchers all know and have known for years my feelings about the complete Files story. What I believe today, in view of what all has transpired these past few years and additional information which has surfaced and has been brought to my attention, in reference to Files army service numbers and date of service and other matters, has caused me to believe that Files was not the north knoll shooter. I have discussed this many times with Wim. And too, I do not believe Files was in Dallas that day. You are free to believe what you like. I was asked to take a poll which I did. If I had previously thought Files might have been a shooter that day, or had given him the bennifit of doubt about his claims, I no longer have those thoughts and can say with truthfulness..., I do not believe the Files story. Today, I do not believe he was a shooter or anyway involved in the JFK assassination and it is not for any reasons you have outlined or questioned. You can say and think what you want. The fact remains: You asked me and I told you. I respect your position, but do not agree. Thanks for asking.

In the early days the M-26-7 was receiving funds from the USA and then later the 26th of July received funding and support from the CIA. The State Department was the "go between" in reference to the early M-26-7 and the CIA was a direct covert cut out funding for the later 26th of July early support. At one time there were two groups operating in Cuba to overthrow Batista. The 26th of July (Castro's group) won out with the CIA's under the table support and the M-26-7 faded out of the picture and some members merged with Castro. I might add we, the USA, was also sending arms and ammo as well as money to Batista at the same time we were funding the M-26-7 and Castro's Revolution. (kind of a circle jurk of politics of the time)

In reference to "Wiecha" I recalled, at the time of post, from memory and phoe spelling (Wieland or Whica): I met the man from Washington DC State Department at Raul's hide-a-way along with Life Magazine personal; Andrew St George and Lee Hall, I think. From Dec 07- 05 post: "... The picture first appeared public in Life Magazine in 1957 in reference to the hostages taken by Raul at his northern camp. I think it was taken by Andrew St George. It was taken at the time that the US State Department sent a represenitive from Washington DC (Wieland or Whica ??) to negotiate the release of the American hostages. I think they settled for tractors. I am not sure if Dunkin covered this meeting at Raul's camp. I was only aware of one photographer from life Magazine. ". The young man with the cross is another "Sergio". But not the Sergio of Dallas fame.

".... I do not believe James Files fired from the grassy knoll. ..." ".... I never believed and I never said I did believe.".