William Plumlee

Keep up the good work. Remember " Birds of a feather flock together". I too, worked with Tom Clines in the sixties and again in the eightes. Its documented. Also read Peter Brewton's and Leslie Cockbrun's books about Lijas MX , Santa Elena, and the drug routes into the USA, also check with Gene Wheaton... he is a good man... firm.. but professional. Tosh (I'm sure you have looked into Deadly Secrets by Hinckle and Wm. Turner)

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Debra, your post is very interesting, except for Maheau was closer to Hoover's FBI wasn't he? I think maheau used the CIA the way that Jim Garrison used it --to cover up the truth, in the name of the national security. quote from Tim: "....Lynne, you are of the mistaken opinion that all former Feebies remained loyal to Hoover. This was simply not true. Maheu was far more a spook than a feebie. There's a famous memo where RFK and Hoover discuss the CIA's use of Maheu and Giancana on the attempts on Castro. Hoover notes that RFK was concerned because of MAHEU'S reputation. And Hoover agrees! In other words, they trusted Maheu less than they did Giancana. While Hoover's memo fails to explain why, a little research will show you that Maheu was considered a prime suspect in the kidnapping of a Dominican dissident off the streets of New York. This dissident, Jesus de Galindez, was tortured and murdered by the Dominican dictator Trujillo. It makes sense that Hoover and Kennedy were both aware of this and were unsure of Maheu's loyalty. Particularly since the CIA had just taken out one of Maheu's clients, Trujillo. ...". end quote from Tim note previous post from Plumlee in 2004: William Plumlee Oct 23 2004, 11:28 AM Post #1 Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 302 Joined: 11-October 04 Member No.: 1680 Thanks Tosh, it does help and does lead to more questions. Perhaps this is why we talk about the assassination as one event from many, involving Cuba. I wonder if the JCS was really surprised at this secret accomodation plan. When they learned of it yet knew of Bobby's work with the exiles, how could they not feel "dissed" to put it mildly. And the Cubans who had received assistance find that LBJ shuts it them down. The FBI and CIA, their constant monitoring of the various operations, ongoing since they early days in CUba, and the ops in Haiti and Domincan Rep. ongoing. Dallas event became a great liability for these factions on the perifery. Then we have Warren who cries at the great lie and Russell who knew of the operations in Cuba, yet questions the official story. Hard to know where to start. Great input Tosh. Chris For those who have to have unquestionable documentation to put together the facts before they can grab hold of the truth of an OPS and fully understand how and why an operation is put together, then sheilded. I think the following, lost story of the Cold War, should be of interest. If researchers would care to look into the players of the "Glandez", matter of 1957, including, " Lester Murphy", Steve Guthrie, and other players connected with the United States Government ,the Dominican Republic , and Cuba, during and after the Dominican Republic and Hati matters, I think they would find it rewarding in reference to Cuban Operations of the sixties and the secret players involved in the Kennedy assassination. note: I am working on the other pictures ("Gator and The Cat') and replies to various questions and should have these ready by the end of next week. Until then consider the following: In Reply to Christy's earlier post: "....I'm sure it was hard on everyone involved in those operations from the JCS as well as the Oval Office. from tosh Another project you reminded me about when you mention other OPs going on in the Dominican Republic and Hati. Do you remember when we talked about "Lester Murphy" and the doctor who was kidnapped and flown from the Dominican Republic to New York? The aircraft a twin beach D-18 of which I think I might have mention your father or Sherry's father might have flown with Alex Rouke in the Florida Keys. The aircraft at one time belong to "Steave Guthrie" an associate of John Pasily (?). The story is recorded in the old Life Magazine about 1957-8, ref; "Galandez (?)" / "Lester Murphy a kidnapping". Galandez I think was the kidnapped person who was taken to NY at the request of the CIA. Well anyway, I find it strange that John Paisely, who was killed in the Cheespeak Bay boating "accident" who was weighted down with chains and found in the Bay with a bullit in the head commited suicide... I think the background of this OPS can be found in that life article. I think I sent you a copy a few years ago, or maybe it was Sherry. The aircraft ID I think was N6800, but not sure today. There is a picture of it with its NC number in the article. Its interesting as to who it was register two "Atlantic Richfield" "Mid States Aviation". and "Southwest Airmotive", Dallas Love Field. CIA fronts and companies used my them...Anyway if you like and you can find that information in your files it would lead into the Liza Howard material of 1962-63 and her murder and her trips from NY to Florida... OH yes. shortly after "Galandiz" was taken to NY. Lester Murphy was reported missing and has never been found... another CIA mystery... one of many... still that one is like the Rosellie mystery... none of these crimes have been solved as well as John A Pasiley murder (?) Three possible murders. never really investigated... Interesting.. Why? Later Tosh note: details can be found in Life Magazine 1957 ref; Galindez kidnapping, Lester Murphy and aircraft D-18 Twin Beach Christy has further info on this. Tosh Here are a few more postings from Oct 2004 that should be of interest concerning Murphy and Paisley: from tosh: 1) Does anyone have any information on Galandez and the Domenican Republic around 1957? (2) Steve Guthrie, Lester Murphy? (Tosh Plumlee) from James: Tosh, The Murphy you refer to, is that the freelance pilot who vanished in the Dominican Republic after flying Galindez who was then supposedly kidnapped? If so, I have a page from Murphy's notebook below which shows the entry Jesus de Galindez. Any of those other numbers ring a bell? I also have a shot of Murphy's house which I believe was under surveillance after his disappearance. If that is the same Murphy, I will try to get some information for you. Cheers, James -------------------- Arguments are to be avoided; they are always vulgar, and often convincing. - Oscar Wilde Full Edit Quick Edit William Plumlee Oct 29 2004, 06:20 PM Post #4 Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 303 Joined: 11-October 04 Member No.: 1680 QUOTE(James Richards @ Oct 30 2004, 01:10 AM) (1) Does anyone have any information on Galandez and the Domenican Republic around 1957? (2) Steve Guthrie, Lester Murphy? (Tosh Plumlee) Tosh, The Murphy you refer to, is that the freelance pilot who vanished in the Dominican Republic after flying Galindez who was then supposedly kidnapped? If so, I have a page from Murphy's notebook below which shows the entry Jesus de Galindez. Any of those other numbers ring a bell? I also have a shot of Murphy's house which I believe was under surveillance after his disappearance. If that is the same Murphy, I will try to get some information for you. Cheers, James -------------------- Biography: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1874 Full Edit Quick Edit William Plumlee Oct 29 2004, 06:30 PM Post #5 Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 303 Joined: 11-October 04 Member No.: 1680 QUOTE(William Plumlee @ Oct 30 2004, 02:20 AM) QUOTE(James Richards @ Oct 30 2004, 01:10 AM) (1) Does anyone have any information on Galandez and the Domenican Republic around 1957? (2) Steve Guthrie, Lester Murphy? (Tosh Plumlee) from tosh: Yes James. Thanks. Same Murphy.., same house. Lester and I used to fly together. We both flew Rosellie and others at different times. (mid to late fifties) Steve Guthrie owned the D-18 (? N6800 ?) that we used to fly. It was registered to 'Atlantic Richfield', I think and later to "Inter-Mountain Aviation'. (60's) For awhile it was based at Miami and Lantana, West Palm Beach. (1962-63) Was Murphy ever found? What happened to Galandez (Galindez)? I'll study the numbers and if I can help, I'll get back to you.... This is still real touchie stuff. Still to some degree "Classified". Anything on 'Inter-Mountain or Mid States Aviation? Thanks James This information helps a lot. tosh P-------------------- Biography: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1874 Full Edit Quick Edit James Richards Oct 29 2004, 06:42 PM Post #6 Super Member Group: Members Posts: 1366 Joined: 7-April 04 From: The Gold Coast, Australia Member No.: 624 P.S to above post.. Interesting note book. To some degree I am familiar with some of the notes. IF my memory serves me right there is information and contacts for the guns and ammo which were being moved around at that time. There are a few CIA cut-outs in those notes... Do you have the note book, because if you do then you will find Rosellies code name under 'R' and "S' ROSS and Soroco ( ?) Coral Gabels Florida S/W 9th Ter. Also I think John Paisely or his look alike worked as a case officer with operatives in Dominican Republic.. This is all memory... I'll geet back to you on this after I prod along... again thanks a lot.. Tosh (Tosh Plumlee) from Jim Hi Tosh, I don't have the note book and more than happy not to. Interesting sidebar on Dominican Republic dictator Trujillo. Seems he recruited Herminio Diaz Garcia to whack Jose Figueres. Small world. That aside, you may wish to check out this piece below. It gives some good information on what happened to Galindez and Murphy. James ********************** NEWS & COLUMNS By William Bryk The Galindez Case On March 12, 1956, Jesus de Galindez, a lecturer in Spanish and government at Columbia University, conducted a graduate seminar in Hamilton Hall on Latin American government. At 10 p.m., he entered the subway at 57th St. and 8th Ave. He was never seen or heard from again. n As Galindez was a bachelor of irregular habits, his disappearance went unnoticed for several days. The police found his apartment in order. Investigators found neither evidence of violence nor any decisive clues. However, hints and leads abounded. Most pointed toward the Dominican Republic, where Galindez had lived from 1939 to 1946 and which Rafael Trujillo had ruled since 1930. Galindez’s friends knew, and a note among his possessions confirmed, that he had feared violence from Dominican sources. On Dec. 4, 1956, some nine months later, a Ford belonging to Gerald Murphy, an American citizen from Oregon, was found abandoned by the sea in Ciudad Trujillo, the Dominican capital. Murphy, a pilot for CDA, the Dominican national airline, was never seen again. However, Murphy had confided to his fiancee, a Pan American Airways stewardess, about his experiences in Dominican service. She in turn told his parents, who harassed Murphy’s congressional representatives, Sen. Wayne Morse and Rep. Charles O. Porter. The politicians persistently lobbied the Justice and State Depts. to find out what had happened. The bureaucrats, in turn, pestered the Dominican government. In late December 1956, the Dominican government arrested and charged Octavio de la Maza, another CDA pilot, with Murphy’s murder. Apparently, de la Maza was advised to admit the murder while pleading self-defense. The story suggested to de la Maza was that Murphy had propositioned him during a drive. De la Maza had rejected him with horror and disgust. The men had brawled and Murphy had accidentally fallen from the cliffs where the Ford had been found. The catch was that de la Maza was unwilling to go along with the story. Then, during the early morning of Jan. 7, 1957, de la Maza was found hanging from the showerhead in his cell. A nearby note, claiming that he had committed suicide in a fit of remorse, conveniently explained everything. No one believed this. The American pressure became overwhelming. FBI agents were allowed to investigate de la Maza’s death. They found he had been too tall to hang himself from the showerhead. Moreover, the showerhead was too flimsy to have borne his weight long enough to permit his death by strangulation. Last, the handwriting in the note was a forgery. All these cases were intertwined by the hands of Trujillo. After Gen. Franco’s victory in the Spanish Civil War, Galindez had exiled himself to Ciudad Trujillo, where he taught and provided legal advice to the departments of National Economy and of Labor. He was pleasant, charming, bookish, scholarly and something of a poet. Nonetheless, he held strong radical and democratic opinions, however politely expressed, and thus found trouble in Ciudad Trujillo. Christopher Columbus had originally named the city Santo Domingo. However, the Dominican Congress had recently renamed it for the dictator. Rafael Trujillo had begun his career as a petty criminal and hellraiser. In 1916, President Wilson had sent the U.S. Marines to occupy the Dominican Republic after decades of political instability. The next year, the Marines created a Dominican national police force. Trujillo volunteered. Within months, the intelligent, charming recruit had become an officer. The Marines found him useful: aside from being an instinctively good soldier, he proved an amazingly resourceful pimp. By 1924, he was a major. Then the Marines went home, leaving the newly minted Colonel Trujillo as chief of staff. By 1930, the National Guard had become the Army, with Trujillo its commanding general. Trujillo manipulated a coup d’etat that ended with elections that he won through terror and ballot box stuffing. Trujillo ruled for the next 31 years. He built highways, low-income housing, hospitals and schools, balanced the budget, repaid the entire national debt and put the Dominican peso at par with the American dollar. The price was a totalitarian state. His spies and informers were everywhere. No man and no man’s family was exempt from the regime: the dictator’s arrest orders for political crimes usually named a suspect "and family," requiring the arrest of him and his relatives up to and including first cousins. Oppositionists were tortured in prison with beatings; they were whipped, stabbed or shocked in electric chairs; cattle prods were applied to their genitals; some were castrated. Trujillo demanded abject public adulation. The country’s highest mountain peak would bear his name. Robert D. Crassweller, in Trujillo: The Life and Times of a Caribbean Dictator, observed, "The anniversaries of Trujillo’s election in 1930, of his inauguration, of his redemption of the national debt, of his birthday, and of his entry into the army, were all days of nationwide demonstrations and celebration." Provinces, cities and streets throughout the Republic were renamed for him and for members of his family. His image, in plaques, busts, statues and portraits, was everywhere. His sycophants devised such honorifics as Generalissmo, Doctor, Benefactor of the Fatherland, Father of the New Fatherland, Loyal and Noble Champion of World Peace, or Maximum Protector of the Dominican Working Class. He was declared by law an authority on all subjects. The walls of even the humblest shack bore framed cards reading, "Thanks to God and Trujillo" or "In this house, Trujillo is the Chief." Through his family and cronies, he monopolized or dominated the production of salt, peanut oil, shoes, matches, cement, soap, paint, glass, beer, meat, chocolate, cigarettes and flour. Through his brothers, he controlled gambling and prostitution. His personal life was tangled by compulsive lust: he had three wives, two mistresses and hundreds, perhaps thousands, of one-night stands. He was cunning and ruthless: not so much sadistic as unrestrained by conscience in working out his ideas to their logical conclusions. In 1946, Galindez left for New York. He taught at Columbia. He also advised clients on matters of Dominican law, wrote articles and became active in various Spanish and Basque exile groups. His obsession with Trujillo’s character and career led him to write his doctoral dissertation on "The Era of Trujillo." It is a rigorously thorough, unprejudiced study of the dictatorship that discusses Trujillo’s accomplishments as well as his abuse of power and reliance on terror. Somehow, a Dominican consular officer in New York learned about the dissertation. Common sense dictates that no one pays attention to any doctoral dissertation save one’s own. Nonetheless, the officer wrote to Trujillo, suggesting that it would attack Trujillo’s family as well as the Generalissmo himself and that Galindez’s connection with Columbia would lend his work tremendous prestige. The dictator fell for it. By 1956, according to Crassweller, "Vanity and the need for adulation had ascended from obsession into monomania and now hovered on the fine edge of imbalance." Dominican agents offered Galindez $25,000 for the dissertation. Galindez refused. Then, Trujillo learned that Galindez would present his dissertation before the faculty committee of Columbia’s history department on Feb. 27, 1956: Dominican Independence Day. The dictator considered this a supreme personal insult. Galindez would have to be killed. His operatives schemed. They needed a pilot, preferably an American, who might operate in the United States without attracting much attention. Through his agents in America, Gen. Arturo Espaillat, the gracious, engaging and utterly lethal chief of Dominican military intelligence, found Murphy, whose single-minded ambition to fly had so far been thwarted by bad eyesight. In early 1956, Murphy was offered a contract to fly a charter from the United States to the Dominican Republic. On March 12, 1956, Murphy landed a twin-engine Beech airplane at Amityville, L.I. Late that night, an ambulance pulled up. A man on a stretcher was carried from the truck to the plane. Only Murphy and the night watchman saw the ambulance arrive. The night watchman told at least two other people before his sudden death from a convenient heart attack. The plane flew to West Palm Beach, FL. There, a mechanic entered the cabin to fill extra fuel tanks. He saw a body lying on a stretcher, either dead or unconscious, and smelled a peculiar odor that he thought might have been a drug. The mechanic died in an airplane crash six days before he was to testify under oath about what he had seen. The plane then flew to Monte Cristi in the Dominican Republic. According to Bernard Diederich’s The Death of the Goat, Galindez was transferred to a CDA plane and flown to Ciudad Trujillo. There, he was brought to Casa de Caoba, Trujillo’s favorite residence. He was carried into the huge barroom that occupies half of the second floor. The dictator strode in, carrying a riding crop. In his hand was a copy of Galindez’s dissertation. He extended the hand with the document. "Eat it," Trujillo barked. Still drugged, Galindez took the papers, gazed at Trujillo and then dropped his head to his chest and the papers to the floor. Trujillo cursed at him, shouting, "Pendejo! Pendejo!" as he beat Galindez over the head with the riding crop. Then he stalked out of the room. No more than 24 hours after his last lecture, Galindez was taken to an interrogation chamber in Ciudad Trujillo. He was stripped and handcuffed. A rope was tied to his feet and led through an overhead pulley. Then he was lowered inch by inch into a vat of boiling water. Then the remains were thrown to the sharks. Murphy carried out several other errands for Trujillo. In December 1956, he arranged to return to the United States. He met his girlfriend at the airport, where she was on a brief stopover. He told her that he had a 5 p.m. appointment at the National Palace. The next day his car was found. Galindez’s disappearance has never been completely solved. Neither was Murphy’s. De la Maza’s brothers conspired against the dictator. Trujillo was assassinated on the evening of May 30, 1961. Antonio de la Maza was one of the gunmen. He stood over the dictator’s body, took Trujillo’s pistol from his hand, murmured, "This hawk won’t kill any more chickens," aimed at the face and squeezed the trigger. thanks James for the update Tosh 1

from Conway: ".....[Harvey continued to keep in contact with Johnny Roselli. According to Richard D. Mahoney: "On April 8, Rosselli flew to New York to meet with Bill Harvey. A week later, the two men met again in Miami to discuss the plot in greater detail... On April 21 he (Harvey) flew from Washington to deliver four poison pills directly to Rosselli, who got them to Tony Varona and hence to Havana. That same evening, Harvey and Ted Shackley, the chief of the CIA's south Florida base, drove a U-Haul truck filled with the requested arms through the rain to a deserted parking lot in Miami. They got out and handed the keys to Rosselli." ...". end Conway quote another post: Great thread ! Debra, your post is very interesting, except for Maheau was closer to Hoover's FBI wasn't he? I think maheau used the CIA the way that Jim Garrison used it --to cover up the truth, in the name of the national security. quote from Tim: "....Lynne, you are of the mistaken opinion that all former Feebies remained loyal to Hoover. This was simply not true. Maheu was far more a spook than a feebie. There's a famous memo where RFK and Hoover discuss the CIA's use of Maheu and Giancana on the attempts on Castro. Hoover notes that RFK was concerned because of MAHEU'S reputation. And Hoover agrees! In other words, they trusted Maheu less than they did Giancana. While Hoover's memo fails to explain why, a little research will show you that Maheu was considered a prime suspect in the kidnapping of a Dominican dissident off the streets of New York. This dissident, Jesus de Galindez, was tortured and murdered by the Dominican dictator Trujillo. It makes sense that Hoover and Kennedy were both aware of this and were unsure of Maheu's loyalty. Particularly since the CIA had just taken out one of Maheu's clients, Trujillo. ...". end quote from Tim note previous post from Plumlee in 2004: William Plumlee Oct 23 2004, 11:28 AM Post #1 Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 302 Joined: 11-October 04 Member No.: 1680 Thanks Tosh, it does help and does lead to more questions. Perhaps this is why we talk about the assassination as one event from many, involving Cuba. I wonder if the JCS was really surprised at this secret accomodation plan. When they learned of it yet knew of Bobby's work with the exiles, how could they not feel "dissed" to put it mildly. And the Cubans who had received assistance find that LBJ shuts it them down. The FBI and CIA, their constant monitoring of the various operations, ongoing since they early days in CUba, and the ops in Haiti and Domincan Rep. ongoing. Dallas event became a great liability for these factions on the perifery. Then we have Warren who cries at the great lie and Russell who knew of the operations in Cuba, yet questions the official story. Hard to know where to start. Great input Tosh. Chris For those who have to have unquestionable documentation to put together the facts before they can grab hold of the truth of an OPS and fully understand how and why an operation is put together, then sheilded. I think the following, lost story of the Cold War, should be of interest. If researchers would care to look into the players of the "Glandez", matter of 1957, including, " Lester Murphy", Steve Guthrie, and other players connected with the United States Government ,the Dominican Republic , and Cuba, during and after the Dominican Republic and Hati matters, I think they would find it rewarding in reference to Cuban Operations of the sixties and the secret players involved in the Kennedy assassination. note: I am working on the other pictures ("Gator and The Cat') and replies to various questions and should have these ready by the end of next week. Until then consider the following: Reply to Christy's earlier post: "....I'm sure it was hard on everyone involved in those operations from the JCS as well as the Oval Office. Another project you reminded me about when you mention other OPs going on in the Dominican Republic and Hati. Do you remember when we talked about "Lester Murphy" and the doctor who was kidnapped and flown from the Dominican Republic to New York? The aircraft a twin beach D-18 of which I think I might have mention your father or Sherry's father might have flown with Alex Rouke in the Florida Keys. The aircraft at one time belong to "Steave Guthrie" an associate of John Pasily (?). The story is recorded in the old Life Magazine about 1957-8, ref; "Galandez (?)" / "Lester Murphy a kidnapping". Galandez I think was the kidnapped person who was taken to NY at the request of the CIA. Well anyway, I find it strange that John Paisely, who was killed in the Cheespeak Bay boating "accident" who was weighted down with chains and found in the Bay with a bullit in the head commited suicide... I think the background of this OPS can be found in that life article. I think I sent you a copy a few years ago, or maybe it was Sherry. The aircraft ID I think was N6800, but not sure today. There is a picture of it with its NC number in the article. Its interesting as to who it was register two "Atlantic Richfield" "Mid States Aviation". and "Southwest Airmotive", Dallas Love Field. CIA fronts and companies used my them...Anyway if you like and you can find that information in your files it would lead into the Liza Howard material of 1962-63 and her murder and her trips from NY to Florida... OH yes. shortly after "Galandiz" was taken to NY. Lester Murphy was reported missing and has never been found... another CIA mystery... one of many... still that one is like the Rosellie mystery... none of these crimes have been solved as well as John A Pasiley murder (?) Three possible murders. never really investigated... Interesting.. Why? Later Tosh note: details can be found in Life Magazine 1957 ref; Galindez kidnapping, Lester Murphy and aircraft D-18 Twin Beach Christy has further info on this.

Previous post by: William Plumlee Oct 13 2004, 07:08 PM Post #10 Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 301 Joined: 11-October 04 Member No.: 1680 In reference to an invitation" Rosellie aka Col. John A Ralston JM/Wave...... Log at Zenith Tech gate sign in sheet June of 62 Spelled as " Col Rawlston" note: " Wild Bill" Harvey as well as "Wild Bill" Donovan, Toney Bender (Doller) John Martino, Tracer Barnes were all contack operatives. Some were also my case officers at different times before and after the Cuban Project and Operation 40 and the formation of "Task Force W Section C-7 aka OMC-235 file locator Tab-B&D.(classified) John Rosellie was flown into Cuba the first time by Plumlee in October of 1961 to make contack with the old M-26-7 underground (DF) (phon. spelling, " ? Barquien" and Justo Carrellio phon? and ?Chromon "phon. that was supported by the CIA in the 1956-57 gun running days which were in support of the Castro rebels who were operating in the Mountains of southern Cuba... Fidel was in the south... Raul Castro was in the north.. timeframe 1956-58. Members of the old Cuban Underground were to set up a shooter, in October of 61, but the deal was shutdown by the CIA in April 62 when the "shooter" was found to be a Castro Agent. ( ref; background info; The Humboldt Apartment complex and the Presidental Palace Havana attack of 1957 the M-26-7, where Joe Westbrook Rosales a CIA paid operative contract employee was killed, because of an " Castro informant" along with many others by Batista's SS. )Later June of 1963 our team TFW-C-11b went into Cuba to try and find "Eddie Bayo" who was suppose to be in prison. Rosillie was now working with Harvey and others in the infamous ZR/Rifle on the assassination of Fidel Castro. If we do have debates I would be happy to go into detail on the dates, time and reasons of these operations and how they were set in motion and by whom and why. Also "How the "cut outs" were put in place for security of the operatives involved, inside Cuba and in southern Florida. This information first was given to investigators of the "Warren Commision in 1964 and later to Waren Hinckle and Bill Turner "Fish are Red" Deadly Secrets", by Plumlee. It has been twisted over the years to fit into "disinformation" most of the details are still classified and parts can be found in the Senator Kerry investigations of 1987-91 )Iran/Contra resupply Network.., ref; John Winner and Dick Mc Call Staff investigators for Senator John Kerry, as well as Senator Gary Hart, 1983-84. Also on file are the results of a polygraph exam conducted on August 2 1991 by the "Department of Justice", FBI results "No Deception found" part one.. Inconclusive Part Two, classified Top Secret Committee Sensitive" August 7, 1991. Another early Polygraph conducted in 1964 at the Colorado State Reformatory by the Denver FBI SAC Scott Warner, concerning Cuban Operations. Results "No Deception" was reported as stated in a FBI 302 file in FBI OO Denver Colorado and Pheonix Arizona , as well as the Phoenix Organized Crime Detail, The FBI 105 file states the original "302 File has been destoroyed" These polygraphs paved the way for the testimony to various committees. AND to this day most of this information is still CLASSIFIED ....".

Mr. Hemming. Go suck wind somewhere else. I know what you are and you know that I know. You were a "Wanta Bee, back then and your even less today. Your full of it and only quote dead people and produce nothing of value to the cause. I've known you for years and watched you add height to your BS stories of grander. I was around with others and you sir, never knew we were around. You and your wanta bees did more damage to the Cuban cause than will ever be known. You used wealthy unsuspecting Cubans to raise money for your cause and fed them BS adventures for their money and time I will not respond to you or your BS. You caused us a lot of pain in the days of old. ., even got some of my boys killed.. for that I will never forgive you. Would you like me to release the CIA application you summitted years ago and the profile on you from them as well? Why don',t you do that. I'm sure many would be interested That would be your first document... how about your Marine records... care to share? I suppose you will soon tell us you set up "Able_ Danger". Get out of my ball park you low life piss ant.

------------------------------ The D.E.A documents (DEA Form-6 -R.O.I. "Report of Imvestigation") are obviously those released to an attorney(s) representing a "Federal Felony Defendant". These documents are usually released to the "Cleared" Defense Attorney(s) ONLY !! That is: Unless the accused has exercised his right to "self-representation" (in propria persona / pro se) under the doctrine of the Faretta vs. California "Doctrine" [sCOTUS - 1975]. Then, and only then, would the defendant him/herself be allowed to peruse said "Exhibits"!! This type of "Government Exibit" was only released to attorney(s) as a result of their having filed a "Jencks Act" and/or a "Brady Material" (U.S. vs. Brady - SCOTUS) "Motion for Discovery". Moreover, said motions must have been made long before the trial date. Today, these motions are included in a "Discovery Motion in ad liminum" (a "Threshold Motion"). Prior to the decision in U.S. vs. James (5th Circuit - 1977) the government was permitted to retain all "Jencks Material" until the particular "Gummint" witness took the stand -- and thus leaving defense counsel with the choice of either reading the documents -- or listening to the witness's testimony and taking the appropriate notes for "Cross" & "Rebuttal" [These witnesses were usually DEA/FBI/BATF/etc. agents]. This very effective government ploy/tactic won quite a few cases, and especially where it was used in wide-ranging "conspiracy cases"!! However, where it worked very successfuly under the prior "Apollo Decision"; everything was drastically changed under the "James" holdings. Take notice of the "water-mark" style "page numbers" on this ROI, as it indicates that it was included with those released had to a defense counsel -- and said counsel was required to reurn them "in toto" after the final appellate court ruling (if an appeal was "moved for"). The page numbers were included on all DEA Form-6s after 1979, and this was because some schemers were selling copies to the Drug Cartels. This was done as ascheme to make "big buck$, and in order to identify "snitches". Said schemers would be heard making claims that said files had been purchased from "their very own" corrupted DEA agents !! [or clerks with contemporaneous access to the DEA's version of the FBI N.C.I.C. computer data base. The DEA styles its data base as N.A.D.D.I.S.]. Embedded in the "paginated" R.O.I.s are [method remains classified] "signature flags" which will trace every page back to the attorney(s) who had them in their possession, and moreover; indicates whether the counselors have made any "prohibited" (see: DEA "Rules/Policies" with effect as law] "Xerox" copies of any of the pages. I am at a loss as to exactly what these pages purport to "verify" -- that is, unless this is an advance "taste" (for our beaks) of further "Enlargements" yet to come (Forth??). My file boxes here in Fayetteville are crammed with 8,000+ documents (not file pages), and quite a large portion contain "halucinatory" CIA/FBIONI/State/DOD, etc. (Both "Agent" & "Snitch" reports). These files have me "leaping tall buildings" -- and doing things that wouldn't even be written into a James "Bum" Bond film. WHY ??!! because they all are totally outrageous !! Yet these "scribblers" indeed did report same to their agency bosses, and their bosses firmly "believed" all of that bullxxxx !! However, and NOT even on a dare/joke would I submit any of these "Hero SOF/Secret Agent BS" files to this Forum -- and specifically NOT as a device intent upon "squelching" specific agent provocateurs and/or TROLLS !! One "Wag" recently joined with some of my associates, in stating that: "...Patrick...these clowns are doing a Weberman on you...they are collecting your postings/e-mails, etc., so they can come out with some tabloid article....or even a book..which will without a doubt carry some title signifying....'How I Crossed Swords With Patrick'...the 'primo' suspect in the JFK assassination..."!! Keep on "Trucking" ol' buddy !! Chairs, GPH _____________________-

For your information: http://www.toshplumlee.info/pdf/DEAfiles.pdf These are PDF files and take awhile to download on dial up. Pages 11-14 I think are interesting. The #62-2116 files are from the Rosellie/Plumlee FBI files of 1976. In view of recently declassified CIA and FBI files I think these should be of interest to investigators. note: the John ArthurPaisley pages did not go to the HSCA in 1979, because they were classified top secret by CIA committee. A few pages were declassified in 1996. However, over two hundred pages of the #62-2116 Rosellie file are still classified. Three hundred and five pages DEA Iran-Contra are still classified and sch for declassifing in 2008 (I was told)

I flew a C-130 in there at one time for retro fitting of a cargo door at Richmont Aviation. But all the other stuff about Mena I am not sure about. The mountains had people growing things up there and Berry Seal used to go up there a lot. However I do not think it was for what some have said. In those hills a lot of 'Banjo" music was played. It was said if you went to far into those hills and heard banjo music.. it best you turn around and leave.

Other things were found that were not announced to the media. They needed further checking. That took almost a year. The trail from the file cabnet and copies of fingerprints of others found in the raid were a match to another fingerprint card. This information or copies did not go with the many boxes that went to the FBI in 1964. Ruby's card when found recently was released at a press conference. However, another copy of prints was not. It is not my place to go into how I know these things and perhaps I have already gone to far and this could become a problem between me and others who ask me not to reveal my sources. In time, I was told, this information will be released to the media. I just posted because the subject matter of the fingerprint of Ruby's, and other matters was found in an unlikely place. Thanks Steve

* * * * * * * * Thanks for the information!. Most interesting! As you know if you read Fonzi's book he and Faraldo spent a great deak of time looking for flight manifests and other information to verify a plane trip to Cuba but were unable to find any. (Some had been destroyed, as I recall, in a storm.) Do you have any info re who Mr. Green and Mr. Parks were? If Faraldo's story was correct (and I tend to believe it was) it certainly is strong indication of a conspiracy. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I did talk to a few investigators in 1975, in Phoenix and Washington D.C. There were some flight logs for a D-18 that belong to Steve Guthrie but it could not be proven that the aircraft went to Cuba. I told most of those people (investigators) they were going about it all wrong. We slipped into Cuba, secret and records were not kept, nor were flight plans. We had the radar time tables for the AIDZ and we would fly under them or between them on there overlaps. Most of the airport logs at Marathon and Key West were lost. However most all trips to Cuba were not direct from Key West or Marathon. Sometimes a flight plan would be filed for Bimini and after about a hour we would cut south low and slow (for fuel) and make our way to Cuba. A secord aircraft a piggy back or tail end Charlie, would land at Bimini and close out the flight plan. Sometimes we almost hit the mast of frighters at sea in the Florida Strights, we were so low. We lost two aircraft that flew into the ocean at night in light fog and rain.

I have to pull out my fingernails to say YES and I have to pull out my toenails to say NO. As you know we have unwritten rules and a code of conduct. As I said to the little lady on the bar stool, next to me. "Hell, I can't Fart and chew gum at the same time anymore". "What did you do in the Big WAR Uncle? Come here little girl.., sit on my lap and I'll tell ya. Its time for bed.

John: I'll go on point on this one and give you my OPINION. (in spite of the potential Flak) You did the right thing. Warbell was on the decline and because of his background a lot of wana-bees jumped in and was trying to use these names as their shields for personal whatever. Number one. They approached you all wrong. You watch before you jump. Point Two: You never recruite by giving the potential target the background of where you come from. Point Three: If you were being recruted for a secret sanctioned operation then you would not know it until you had already been exposed to one or two cut-out ops. You would then be evaluated and a series of test would be given to you by others. If all went well, then someone would perhaps talk with you. It takes time to get into a top secret sanctioned MI operation, or for that matter a secret CIA 'cut out' Ops. I think you did the right thing. Tosh <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tosh, I agree with you 100%. There were no shortages of SOF types of this period and before that drew radicals "with a cause". These were the dangerous types that were as inefective as they were problamatic. They often get confused with those on the outside as being mercs who contract, but in reality are cause driven and generally hands-off for official operational programs. That has been my opinion. And that is how I have a difficult time accepting Anti-Castro Cuban fanatical groups, even those supported by the intelligence community, as being operational in the JFK Assassination. Al <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Al: I agree fully. Its hard to seperate the Cubans from the Kennedy matter because it seems so simple. The Cubans were pissed so they assassinated the President.., all two hundred and ten of them. Most were there that day to watch it happen. I too, do not by this. The Cubans were operating a gun running operation through Dallas and other cities that were not government approved, CIA or otherwise. This had been going on for over three years and the FBI had most of the names and M.O. on file with Hoover. These independent operations often cried CIA when their tit got caught in the Wringer. In fact, after the assassination their little operations were compromised and they all drifted back to Miami and made applications for work with the CIA. Most were REJECTED on the spot. (for reasons as you have pointed out) In later years, they were the first to tell and sell their little embellished stories to the first magazine and book writers that came along. In time they became the references we quote today and that validates them and their distorsions of facts. That has been what the CIA has designed and wanted all these years..., a damn good diversion. The politics and policies behind the assassination remain protected to this day. Jack and Jill never came home from that OPS..

Al; I am glad to see that someone has came to the plate and pointed out a few important matters concerning "Black Operations" (if I may use an overworked phrase) The specifics you mentioned are foundations which must be understood if one is to follow the lineage of field personal and why these "Cells" of specialized operatives are trained in the manner that they are. When I attended these "familiarization" programs or (Covert Action Training Programs, CATP) that the manual was written from, I found Cubans, Iran, Tibet, and ? V.C. in those training classes, as well as personal from Angola. Ed P Wilson, Tom Klines, Eugene Toffaya (sp) and others, of which I am sure you know, were engaged in the art of sabotage and sniper tactical training to various small groups within these cells. Others were assigned to "Illusionary Warfare Tactics", (IWT) LHO attended one of these type classes in 1959 at Nags Head NC before going over to Japan with the ONI. Some of these military specialized operatives with their secret MOS's of the 1979-81 era, were from Iran and Afghan and Central America, and Egypt. Two Latin Americans from Eden Pastroa's small group, before Pastroa took command as Captain Zero, were engaged in the SOA Benning sniper school as well as a few of the "Mosquito Indians" of northern Nicaragua.., This was one of the first test units formed. The training book was being written at that time. This type of training was being conducted very hush-hush and did not follow any of the 'OLD' manuals that had previously been written. (1953-54) This 'testing' school threw away all the old manual material and started all over. In some ways this was the start of training a secret army to operate independent specialized CIA projects off the books. Should we bring it up another notch? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tosh, We probably shouldn't, but what the hell! Maybe it is time! You opened the door when you brought out Tofoya so it is too late to close it. A man who had a great deal of control of SOA in that period and a strong backer of the likes of Sandavol-Alarcon'. While the SOA attendees were primarily Central and South Americans with fifteen to twenty percent being from the middle east/north Africa and no more than ten percent from the US, the instructors were generally U.S. veterans of Iranian and El Salvadorian staging ops on the planning side and mostly U.S. Veterans of the SE Asia operational period of Phoenix and the likes there and Columbian field operations, on the tactical side. I believe you are familiar with the type of class association I am referring to and why it was made up of this type of U.S. Soldier. Throughout various other courses, they would be intermingled with select foreign servicemen, but the same group of roughly twenty-five American Servicemen would be present throughout the majority of the neccessary courses. These men would later be deployed seperately and generally individually only to work on a limited basis with others of the same level but with different specialties in-country, and travel seperately from them. The term "reliance on others is not an acceptable risk" is gospel in this type of operation. When the operation ran it's course, the Black Widow policy would show it's ugly head often and would be utilized to maintain security of the operation. "Jack and Jill never made it home". The COM for Central America was hardly a training manual and could not even be considered a policy manual as it was no more than a guideline for acceptable and reliable procedures of operation. It's true publishing date I believe was 1981 April through the DD31. I have quoted from it on Lancer and showed how it was in direct conflict of what Prouty produced, although it followed the same language, but came out with the opposite meaning. The US operational sniper school of this period was ran out of Marathon for final testing with basic and advance instruction leading to this at Bragg and Benning. Have I went too far? Al <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Al: Your in the ball park and batting 400. Jack and Jill went up the hill.. they each had a dollar and a quarter... Jill came down with two and a half... And They Shot Her. It was aslow day in the jungles.

John: I'll go on point on this one and give you my OPINION. (in spite of the potential Flak) You did the right thing. Warbell was on the decline and because of his background a lot of wana-bees jumped in and was trying to use these names as their shields for personal whatever. Number one. They approached you all wrong. You watch before you jump. Point Two: You never recruite by giving the potential target the background of where you come from. Point Three: If you were being recruted for a secret sanctioned operation then you would not know it until you had already been exposed to one or two cut-out ops. You would then be evaluated and a series of test would be given to you by others. If all went well, then someone would perhaps talk with you. It takes time to get into a top secret sanctioned MI operation, or for that matter a secret CIA 'cut out' Ops. I think you did the right thing. Tosh

Tim: Some years ago this copy of letter was sent to me by an investigator from Austin Texas. It is sealed along with other important documents with my attorney in Colorado. I thought you might find it of interest, in view of your current interest. Bob: June transcribed this for you. I hope all is well. Please write and let us know what is going on. Thanks Don. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX CERTIFIED COPY and REGISTERED #7506-9341 April 10,1975 Dear Smithy; It was good to hear from you. It has been awhile. I am glad to hear Susan is doing fine after her surgery. You ask me about the airport in Key West and Jack Ruby. I can’t remember the name of the manager off hand, but I first heard the story from Chubby Weiner of Starlight Cruisers out on Marathon. He knew the pilot who was going to fly Jack and others to Cuba. That was in the early summer of 1963. The pilot was Bill Pearson and he had a room at the old Jack Tarrs ( now the Salty Dog I think) across from the airport at Marathon. Hank Mitchell, I think was his name, had a small fleet of airplanes based there and Bill was one of his part time pilots. It was local knowledge that Pearson was CIA and had worked with the Cubans a few years ago in Miami. He used to fly the Texaco PBY Catalina down here from Miami into Cuba but that was to help Castro before he came into power. Before 1959. I remember when they painted the seaplane plane black. Bill also flew the black P-51 that was such a hit down here around that time. He used to fly it upside down over hiway 1 and Marathon then land. They were a routtie bunch of young men and never paid their bills, but the bills always got paid by someone else, somehow. I am not sure what happen to the Jack Ruby matter, but there were a lot of investigators from Congress down here a few months ago. And they asked a lot of questions about that story and other things about Plum Key and the raid that Puto was in. I can’t recall their names on when the last time they were here. The FBI did talk to Chubby and he was a little shook up about that. He did tell them, or he told me he told them he saw Oswelld in the summer of 1963 at the Key West airport but he did not or could not identifie Ruby with him. After that things got real quite around here and people just left? I’m sorry I can’t be of more help Smithy, but I never thought much about the story. There are so many stories about all that and it twist the mind if you believe all of um. Tell Sue Hi and you guys come down and see us soon. Write or call. Larry. [ This was transcribed from a hand written letter from Larry Green of Key West, Florida to Smithy Parks in Indiana PA., in 1975] The subject was about a question Mr.Green asked Mr. Parks about Jack Ruby and Lee Oswald. The original letter and post mark are sealed and recorded and on file with Attorney, Don Johnston, Pine Junction, Colorado (also recordered in Park County, Colorado, 1999 B-1017)

Al; I am glad to see that someone has came to the plate and pointed out a few important matters concerning "Black Operations" (if I may use an overworked phrase) The specifics you mentioned are foundations which must be understood if one is to follow the lineage of field personal and why these "Cells" of specialized operatives are trained in the manner that they are. When I attended these "familiarization" programs or (Covert Action Training Programs, CATP) that the manual was written from, I found Cubans, Iran, Tibet, and ? V.C. in those training classes, as well as personal from Angola. Ed P Wilson, Tom Klines, Eugene Toffaya (sp) and others, of which I am sure you know, were engaged in the art of sabotage and sniper tactical training to various small groups within these cells. Others were assigned to "Illusionary Warfare Tactics", (IWT) LHO attended one of these type classes in 1959 at Nags Head NC before going over to Japan with the ONI. Some of these military specialized operatives with their secret MOS's of the 1979-81 era, were from Iran and Afghan and Central America, and Egypt. Two Latin Americans from Eden Pastroa's small group, before Pastroa took command as Captain Zero, were engaged in the SOA Benning sniper school as well as a few of the "Mosquito Indians" of northern Nicaragua.., This was one of the first test units formed. The training book was being written at that time. This type of training was being conducted very hush-hush and did not follow any of the 'OLD' manuals that had previously been written. (1953-54) This 'testing' school threw away all the old manual material and started all over. In some ways this was the start of training a secret army to operate independent specialized CIA projects off the books. Should we bring it up another notch?

I think Tosh Plumlee has a refreshing sense of humor, which, at times, is the best one can hope for in life. It's difficult for me today, facing tomorrow's memorial for Gary Webb in Sacramento. Tim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tim: If you see Susan give her and the kids my best. I wish I could be there. I know its hard on all of those who were extra close to Gary and his work. I talked with Maxine and she is going to write a memorial letter in rememberance of Gary and his work. Take care Tosh

I call everyone darling, regardless of what I think of them. It's been that way since I first saw Breakfast at Tiffany's, and now it's sort of a habit, much like people that bite their nails. I don't even realize I'm doing it until someone comments on it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sweethart. You haven'nt seen an 'old man' until I pop around the cornor in My rain coat. Hey! Your good on this research. Could you list all the people who you know and have read about on this forum who were either shooters, connected, planners, and spotters or assassins., or in pictures, or connected with Cuban operations, or, mafia, military, CIA, mercienary, KKK, min. men, or just plain lonely. I think that would be a good project for someone. The way I figure it would out number three to one everyone in the Plaza..., or perhaps Dallas for that matter...

I have little choice in the matter for Gary Mack has access to the original film which gives him a better image to view than we have.... I think that is a stupid and reckless position you've taken and my answer is still the same as above.... I didn't have access to the camera original, so I called the 6th floor Museum and asked Gary Mack to look at the Bell film when he had some free time and get back with me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Bill Miller obviously cites his constantly repeated relationship with GARY MACK (speaking "2-3 times" per day) to justify his fatuously dismissive and rude comments to others. Is the rudeness, as Gary Mack puts it, also supported by Gary Mack? Is Bill Miller Gary Mack's frontman? There have been too many episodes such as this where it can't work both ways. Either Bill Miller has Gary Mack's daily support both with regard to the evidence and the behavior, or GARY MACK NEEDS TO GET A CONSCIENCE AND DISTANCE HIMSELF FROM SUCH COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE CRUDITY. Let's not forget that there's not a person in the world who makes more money from the Kennedy assassination than Gary Mack, or that he holds his position by kissing the same types of city father asses that were complicit in the events in late November, 1963 - if not in Dealey Plaza, then at least in the DPD basement live TV murder of Oswald, and on the billboards against Earl Warren, and the "Wanted for Treason" flyers, General Walker, and the nutburgers that haven't exactly moved away, such as Stan Levinson - the current version of Clay Shaw, Gary Mack's benefactor. Tim Carroll <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey Tim. When are you going to tell us what you really think?

Wim: More important than the map is the fingerprint copies that were found other than Ruby's. These fingerprint copies have been compared to the box 26 FBI copies that were sent to the FBI by Dallas P.D shortly after the assassination. The FBI copies of the fingerprints are different than the ones found in the basement. The FBI copies are different and appears to have been tampered with AFTER they were in the FBI's Lab. (1964) (I posted on this forum a few weeks ago about this Dallas PD and the new found prints but nobody picked up on it) The pictures (PHOTO COPIES) of the prints found in the raid is a NON broken chain of evidence FROM THE FIRST OF 1964. Guess who the 38 point comparison prints fit?. First two guesses don't count. It has taken a year to get those prints to this level and documented; palm, little finger, and index. For years copies of these prints were lost deep in the basement of the Dallas P.D. in an old misplaced file cabinet.., until they were stolden while the file cabinet was being moved because of a broken water pipe a few years ago. It is my understanding that this information, or comments, will not be released by the Dallas P.D. until some in high Texas politics and others involved have died and then I also understand all hell will breake loose and the history books will have to be rewritten.... Stay tuned.. It should prove interesting in a few more months or years. Tosh

Harry: Glad to hear from you. Thanks for the above postings. I too, can identifie with what you say. I was associated with the old M-26-7 on gun running to Castro, before the Palace attack by the students at the University of Havana. It seems not much is know about those early days and what really went on. Little is known about the CIA's support of Castro and Batista during the Batista era. Sorta like playing both ends on the middle arms merchants. Its never changed to this day. Anyway, hope you will hang around. I have a few questions concerning what is called "The Dallas Cubans" perhaps we could exchange notes on some of these players. Did you ever work with Frank. P.'s Col. #9 inside Cuba in the Mtns. with Fidel? I had some good friends there with that group. I am in the field now and have to get back to my helicopter and flap my arms. I'll be back in a few weeks. You take care. Tosh

Wim: Jay was about ten years older than me. DoB about 1927 or so. You have the FBI employment list about Southwest. There are other documents that talks about this pilot from me and the Holt meeting about 1967 in Phoenix Arizona at the Caravan Inn, which you should also have. And to you should have copies of the DD-214 from Austin Texas. (Texas National Guard and the 4th Army reserve. And there is my statement as to who was instructors at White Rock and Red Bird made to investigators in 1976; and again in 1990. Bernard Finisterwald and Gary Shaw had Jay's name and a list of Airlines we flew with in 1980. Most of the other matters is Classified my the Kerry Committee in 1991. And I can't do anything about that. Point Two. I have posted many documents and have myself asked questions. I don't think I will do the leg work for anyone anymore. Nothing in return on the questions I ask. I have told you and others where to go to get this information to back up various matters of my associations. You forget I don't care about proving what I say. Like Files "Take it or leave it" At least I am citing references and there locations. I research my own self only to be called a liarand twisting of facts. You all are the experts... now go do your jobs. I mean this in the nicest way. I am tired of pointing things out that people already have if they would just read what they have. Point Three: This is the seventh time I have said YES that is Struges (Sutter) in the 105 document. The FBI missed pronounced the name in their transcribing this was in 1959 I think. I do not know if that was on purpose or taken from the tape because of my pronounciation. Why am I beating this dead hourse or still engaged in all this. It seems to me everyone already knows what happened and how. So why am I here? To entertain? To be told how it was and why and how wrong I am? What is my motive? I do not want to write a book. .., do a movie.., make a buck$$ at the expense of dead people. I really do have more important things to do with the rest of my life than to stay engaged in all this crazy stuff.

Shanet: I am on the road and will get back to you on your questions in more detail. I just posted something. You might want to take a look at the DEA documents posted a few days ago and on the toshplumlee.info . This will give a little information into the dark side that Gary was concerned with. Later T