Shanet Clark

First of all, Jim Root's sense of these things is worthy of close attention, and the manipulation not at all more than what actually probably occured. But back to the Catholic Religion issue with JFK, I had this on another thread: In the late 1800s the nineteenth century experienced a wave of TERRORISM. Vigilante groups, self appointed white males used violence to co-ordinate and drive anti-democratic and anti-republican representative theories of power onto the national political stage, where they remained through until today. In San francisco, New orleans and New york city, violent and murderous elites took hard right reactionary race baiting political positions, while taking over local and state political structures. Anti Asian and Anti Irish Catholic rhetoric drove the organizations efforts, and the tradition of the Know Nothing runs through secret societies until this day. Self appointed race baiting whiter than white rednecks with money combined in the 1850-1900 period and they recombined, as the reaction of the late 20th century recapped many of these themes. Joseph Kennedy and his four sons were Irish Catholic political bosses from Boston, Massachusetts, and while some in the Cambridge Harvard MIT Beacon Hill circle accepted and welcomed the Kennedy's entrepot to political power, others centered in New Haven, Wall Street, Michigan and greater Los Angeles opposed the rise of the Kennedy's sons. Vigilante elites. This is the key, paramilitary assassinations were common in the racially loaded Victorian period, when Irish and Asian were non white ethnic groups, Catholic leaders were killed. When John Kennedy took the 1960 election, over fellow Senator and Vice President Richard Nixon, the aggravated elements of the right brought militant reactionary illegal force to bear, and the constitution was overhauled with the new succession doctrine of EXECUTIVE REMOVAL, in a law originally composed by Senator Estes Kefauver, who died in 1963 of a heart attack and ratified by the States in 1967, in the year before Lyndon Baines Johnson stepped down. ALexander Haig, National Security Adviser to President Ford, Protege of Henry Kissinger and General Douglas MacArthur, served as White House Chief of Staff during the transition of power in August 1974. Recent indiscretions committed by the Haig ego point to a role for Al Haig in the Bay of Pigs, BAYO EDDIE, OPERATION TILT, OPERATION EXECUTIVE ACTION, CHAOS, COINTELL COUNTER INTELLIGENCE PROGRAM the domestic joint agency disruption of American Society and our political state in the Cold War 1960s and 1970s. Another PROGRAM FOR PSYCHOLOGICAL OPERATION illegal domestic program was the INLET system, NSA MAIL COVER, FBI DOMESTIC BLACK BAG JOINT OPS, and of course AM/LASH, ZR/RIFLE ZERO RIFLE and WH EXECUTIVE ACTION an illegal US domestic covert assassination team run by Howard Hunt out of Mexico City, but cooperating and coordinated by JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF, NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY, DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE, MARINE INTELLIGENCE and NAVAL INTELLIGENCE. Of course, marine intelligence is an oxymoron and very frightening entity, serving as the source for LEE HARVEY OSWALD, and his LEGEND. The vigilantes of the anti Catholic reaction survived to mix with German rocket scientists and Nazi Pharmocological and Behavioural Psychologists in OPERATION ARTICHOKE which was a joint military illegal Domestic mind control, hypnosis and forced drugging PROGRAM. Most famous of these was the MK/ULTRA, which combined PSYCHIC DRIVING or forced behavioural actions on witting ang unwitting individuals. These forces, I believe came together to kill John Kennedy and overthrow our government through force and guile. RICHARD RUSSELL, Georgia Senator, Military and Intelligence Appriations Chair and Warren COmmission member, Exercised what enforcement and oversight which existed, which was nearly nil. He and the Congress knew little of the PROGRAMS until November 1963. > > > > > > > > >

The following list of suspects appear near the top of searches (the vast majority being ranked in the top 3): David Morales, David Atlee Phillips, Richard Bissell, Gerry Hemming, William Seymour, Bobby Baker, J. Edgar Hoover, Fred Black, Tracy Barnes, Lucien Conein, Roy Hargraves, William Harvey, Howard K. Davis, Eugenio Martinez, John Martino, Roland Masferrer, Clint Murchison, Gordon Novel, William (Rip) Robertson, Johnny Roselli, Felipe Vidal Santiago, Manuel Artime, Ted Shackley, George Smathers, Sergio Arcacha Smith, Eladio del Valle, Santo Trafficante, Antonio Veciana, Malcolm (Mac) Wallace, Mitchell WerBell, Jake Esterline, Dennis Harber, Loran Hall, Charles Willoughby, Dave Yarras, Chauncey Holt, Tony Varona, Virgilio Gonzalez, Herminio Diaz Garcia, Charles Harrelson, James Files, Tony Cuesta, Billie Sol Estes, David Ferrie, Guy Banister, Loy Factor, Rolando Cubela, Clifton Carter, Bernard L. Barker and Desmond FitzGerald. That leaves us with the interesting question: Who is the CIA protecting? Here is the list: Frank Wisner, Cord Meyer, Mary Pinchot Meyer, E. Howard Hunt, Edward Bennett Williams, Philip Graham and Katharine Graham. unquote This would tend to support the seriousness of the recent threads on these individuals......

James et al... I think they are the same guy, although your doubts and GH's agreement make ME wonder about it. But lets say its one guy. What was the motivation of the CIA to release these? How often do they release photos? Almost never, right? And to release these as OSWALD, the most familiar "mug" on Earth? This reeks of a counter-intelligence game, and a frame. Thanks for the extra pictures of URM, I see he was definitely inside the Soviet grounds now, not just posing at the gate. A few more snaps more or less (different from the sample day photos above) doesn't bother me, I think the URM series is a normal series of observation post snaps.... Who has heard the OSWALD tapes linked to these photos? Who was looking for Kostikov of the 13th (wet) KGB section? Was this man (the URM) looking for Kostikov and talking AS OSWALD, was this the Agency's point, that this is the photo series that matches the audio in point of time? Does that make it any clearer? its a Grahame Greene type scenario all the way......

John You know more about her than I do, but I see Mary as a women under the influence of her pacificism and idealism. If she was acting in a way that compromised the President, I think that can be explained by their own dynamic, and while they were closely monitored and observed, I doubt if she was being "run" by Angleton or anyone else. However, her Georgetown Liberal CIA associates may have provided the NIMH (sandoz?) grade LSD that she shared with her bedroom allies, Tim Leary and Jack Kennedy. She was killed for knowing to much and having dangerous ideas, which was fine if you were a poor Greenwich Village beatnik but a fatal flaw if you were of the Georgetown MICC cultural milieux... I think the ONI kept a lifelong file on JFK's mind and body, and about the time of these trysts and sessions, he lost clearance and was declared incapacitated. Mary Meyer's experience triggered my understanding of the capacity/clearance issue and executive sanction event. "If you take LSD it makes you clinically insane" a bit of common idiom from the 1960s, and don't you think they took that into consideration at the Joint Agencies?

What is this ? A Good cop / Bad cop Routine ? In the context of unconstrained discourse in the new internet media, I found my fellow member Jack White with little or no support on these Apollo issues. In the spirit of good seminar dynamics and personal loyalty, I responded to Jack's posts in order to give him the "second" he needed, the encouragement to unveil a more articulated and credible body of evidence concerning his approach. I believe I assisted him in presenting a more fully articulated presentation. In the process, I found how compelling his evidence was. One only needs to review the key photo threads to see the evidence I have found fairly persuasive and in need of further unbiased review. I find the anomalys as pointed out by Jack, at least half of the specific ones, to withstand the joint and concentrated bureaacratic debunking by our members, the Clavius site, etc. I still stand alone as his second, and supporter; and I am proud of my role in the stimulation of responsible analysis of these problematic and strange photos. I am unswayed by the vehement and "scientific" barrage of co-ordinated effort in explaining the shadows, point of views, moon/earth phases and photo prints found on the landing gear in the photos. However, I realize I am nearly alone and stand as a member's personal second in the seminar dialogue process, and I hope my warm colleagues from the JFK and International Education forums understand me as such, one who will vouch if only to propel Jack White, Lee Forman and the rest of the members further along .....

Mr. White is to be applauded for his courage and prophetic insight into the photographic record. I salute him and support his efforts, if not all of his specific findings.

Disagree. They are a match. UAM is URM an unidentified random Russian, passed off as Lee Harvey Oswald in a pinch...because of the date of the photo. Also, I believe this is the gate the young "Falcon and Snowman" used in the TRW scrambler espionage case.......

All members: In the interest of unconstrained discourse I support the Jack White approach and many of his findings. I am sure to note the lack of concurrence by others. I believe the original postings, and my summary, have yet to be addressed and still present many difficulties and problematics. (see photos)

[in reviewing THE MEN WHO KILLED KENNEDY by Nigel Turner, I found that most of the researchers stressed that LBJ needed the support of Secret Service and the FBI to carry out the ED CLARK / MALCOLM WALLACE scenario. Seriously, one of the reasons I post on this FORUM is to emphaasize that forces larger that the individual LBJ were coordinating this. When people say LBJ, I say Maxwell Taylor, CD Dillon, JEdgar Hoover and Thomas Karamesssines and executives on the order of Marshall Carter and Robert Anderson of the 8F suite...] LBJ was handed a fait accompli, and while he benefitted I don't think he initiated.

I haave summarized my position. In a mentality of unconstrained discourse, I find Jack White's strongest point is probably the vantage point of the photos themselves, the shadows, incorrect placement and orientation over time and photo forgery> [ the whistleblower's anomaly] and I am most interested in the points my fellow respected JFK assassination photoanalyst and EDUCATION FORUM senior member JACK WHITES approach overall as he presents on his thread. However I am disturbed by the tone and unprecedented interest in our hypothesis: Jack White needed a second opinion and I was there to second that member, in the interest of UNCONSTRAINED DISCOURSE ON THE INTERNET .......... [ i.e. nothing to 'pologize for, commissioner.......]

Lee- Mary Meyer gave Tim Leary a bottle of NIMH acid? That bottle was probably good government issue Swiss Sandoz, the benchmark. Tim Leary had experienced the good MK ULTRA SWISS SANDOZ LSD but probably Leary was getting it from a private chemist in 1963, so it is entirely possible that the Meyer Lsd was better than the Leary Lsd in the transaction quoted above. The MK/ULTRA SWISS SANDOZ LSD-25 was of a very high quality according to test recipients Ken Kesey, Neal Cassady and Allen Ginsberg. Leary was a notorious "Free Love" womanizer, so the accounts about Mary Meyer having an affair with him ring true to me.... add that to JFK's classified oversight file: "Sleeps with Tim Leary's girlfriend" that in iself is very Profumo-esqe, or worse, to have that phrase in your file....

Robin, We talked about the UAM on another thread and I asked if you could tell from the photos whether the UAM was fully inside the Soviet premises or just at the gate on Mexican soil. If he was really well inside the Soviet embassy he probably wasnt' a US asset, but if he was posing around the gate he could have been a US asset. This last photo above shows him enclosed by the gate (inside Soviet diplomatic grounds)....do you think the pictures prove he was on soviet diplomatic turf? I think the reason he is unidentified is because he is a burly random Russian. He looks nothing like Lee Harvey Oswald, & so its a frame, pure and simple, a patsy frame.

I'm afraid that picture has not been cleared for release, Mr. Richards. {Now its visible / great picture}

I thank both of the members for their dissenting comments.

Ron, This photo?

Thanks James. I was looking at Robin Unger's photo gallery and I saw a good frame of "construction worker man" as the motorcade passed him (near DCM/UM)... He appears to be giving Kennedy the full, two armed "finger" with both elbows up and one forward. We have discussed his unusual posture elsewhere, and what I see is an emphatic gesture of contempt, you know "stick it up your @$&" which really ties him to Umbrella Man, who was supposedly making a point about appeasement and Neville Chamberlain with his prominent (signal) umbrella...... But lets not sidetrack the JACK RUBY thread. Was he in Dealey?

I want to thank Lee Forman for the recent posts. Does anyone have this picture of "Jack Ruby" in Dealey that was cropped? [ I have a hard time imagining that anyone would carry a rifle up the grassy knoll(given all the activity behind the fence in the parking lot) but the green truck, the description of the two men, all tie together.]

Obviously, this ties into my theory. If the President took LSD, the NSA and CIA would have known about it, and his security clearance would have been reviewed, and his fitness for office analyzed. He may have been found to have "incapacity" due to the government line that LSD caused "schizophrenia".... This thread pretty much lays it on the line that JFK left himself open to this sort of speculation, and may have invited his own EXECUTIVE SANCTION by toying with pacifist women and LSD ........ This scenario allowed MAXWELL TAYLOR and C.D. DILLON to invoke a rough version of the events called for in the 25th amendment. Of course infidelity and LSD were simple pretexts for the elimination of a popularly elected and manifestly competent President by his reactionary militant political opposition. Charges of TREASON add to the picture, but I believe classified findings concerning LSD and incapacity were the principle pretexts for Kennedy's murder by the joint agencies.......

Interesting material on the heat transfer. Here is the case for seriously considering Jack White's line of thinking: Take an overheated Nuclear Arms race and universal Cold War, to start. Consider the entire APOLLO project as what it really was, a propaganda effort and large scale psychological operation (this is true whether they went to the MOON or not). Consider the reluctance of US agencies to release any photo with military or strategic interest, broadly defined. Look at all the releasesd images as a closely managed public relations and international propaganda effort. Now strap a camera to your chest, put a fishbowl over your head and heavy mittens on your hands. Return with a series of perfectly exposed and perfectly focused pictures of a bowl shaped Moon surface. Some of these photos are taken from about two feet above the surface, some more like ten feet above the surface. No one ever jumps into the air on film, despite being free of earth's gravity. There is no sign of a blast or pressure directly under the retro rockets. There is a brass ring visible where the flag was screwed into its base. If the astronauts actually went to the Moon, the film would have been strategically priceless and never publicly released. Micro meteorites and Van Allen radiation round out the argument.... Finally, it was imperative that they have a good picture of the little placque they placed on the MOON, so I find the differences between these two exposures absolutely uncanny, taken as they were by individuals with giant fishbowls, mittens and a camera strapped to their chest>>> And of course many of the Shadows and POV's make no sense whatsoever: Were they really on their knees for this one, great focusing, too.... Then you have the shadows, pesky shadows.... So if you are concerned that we are impugning the work of the (old Nazi) space scientists or the handsome young NASA guinea pigs, fear not, I am not impugning these characters. NASA may have gone to the Moon AND faked a photographic file........ Critical rational approaches to COLD WAR aeronautics, secret rocketry projects, and highly classified projects with a vast propagnada impact, critical approaches to this unusual series of events are proper and healthy.

Stephen and Don Just got back from offline. Will send comments soon. Great thread, people are reading it, I am sure, so don't get discouraged....so Clarence was a false trail, I thought so...more later Shanet

OOOOHHHHH ......

You utterly FAILED to answer MY VALID POINTS, Lamson....

In the upper left hand corner, a police officer is escorting a man away. Looks like Charles Rogers, roughly.......

WHat is the temperature on the surface of the Moon? 280 Degrees Fahrenheit? That would have cooked the film, in the uninsulated Hasselblad, correct? Why should there be stars in photos taken from the surface of the Moon ? Why should people who wiegh only thirty pounds jump more than three inches off the ground? THESE FOLKS IN THE FOTOS ARE EARTHBOUND ! Jack White has done some ground breaking and courageous work. I am not convinced that the photos of the Moon seen lying on the Moon was a packing material. It looks like photos of the moon are lying on the moon..... I am unconvinced that the area under the lander rockets would look so pristine. I note a brass ring base mount a few inches from the surface of the Moon on the flagpole. I do not believe you can force a flag into the dry surface like it was bluegrass sod, and I find the shadow anomalies, the flare and coronas, and other added effects signs of falsification. Of course their are unlimited resources for those who oppose this line of thought, so we shouldn't be suprised that a team has descended to pick apart these findings ..........

Gerry Hemmings, an impeccable source with a flawless memory, told me that Andrei Gromyko was pouring motor oil - 30 weight PENNZOIL on the Stemmons Freeway around noon of November 22..... really