Shanet Clark

I totally agree with you, McCone and Helms were politically isolated, but Karamessines is palpably indicted. It may well be that a joint agency effort involving ONI, JCS, NSA (military intelligence agencies) did the heavy lifting and the CIA was less involved, via the office of Karamessines......

Must have been raining in Detroit at the Rouge River Ford Motor Company Glass Warehouse.........

{strong online resource concerning the Skull and Bones} Skull & Bones It all began at Yale. In 1832, General William Huntington Russell and Alphonso Taft put together a super secret society for the elite children of the Anglo- American Wall Street banking establishment. William Huntington Russell's step-brother Samuel Russell ran "Russell & Co.", the world's largest OPIUM smuggling operation in the world at the time. Alphonso Taft is the Grandfather of our ex-president Howard Taft, the creator of the Forerunner to the United Nations. Only 15 seniors are picked each year by the former graduating class. They are required as a part of their initiation ceremony to lie naked in a coffin and recite their sexual history. This method allows other members to control the individual by threatening to reveal their innermost secrets if they do not "go-along". George Bush's father as well as George Bush were and are members of Skull & Bones. A major key figure in Skull & Bones was William Averall Harriman. Pamela Harriman supplied the funds to elect Bill Clinton to office. Harriman was THE major backer of the Democratic Party for over 50 years. Major players in Skull & Bones have been linked to the financing of both world wars and the creation of many think-tanks and Universities in this country. Bush's father was a major contributor to the "Hitler Project" as well as the build-up of the Soviet Union. Thus, leading to the inevidable World Wars and the eventual set-up of the United Nations in America. I first learned about the workings of "Skull and Bones" in 1990-91 during the Gulf War. Craig Hulett, A.K.A. (K.C. de Pass) was in Los Angeles doing several lectures discussing the NEW WORLD ORDER. Here he revealed the work of ANTONY SUTTON author of a number of books including "Wall Street and the Bolshevic Revolution", "Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler", "Wall Street and FDR", "Gold v. Paper", "Energy-The Created Crisis", "National Suicide : Military Aid to the Soviet Union", "Technological Treason", A massive 3-Volume Set titled "Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development 1917-1973", (While working as a fellow researcher at the Hoover Institute), then came "America's Secret Establishment : An Introduction to the Order of Skull & Bones", in 1984 and Finally "The Two Faces of George Bush", also about Skull & Bones". "Secret Establishment" was a compilation of his previous materials with a new insight. You see, his previous works focused on the Wall Street Bankers and several organizations they had founded. But, what happened was that someone who was reading his books, said "Hey, look at this", the research you are doing on these clowns is great, but did you know about "Skull & Bones"? Antony had been doing the research on these particular individuals without knowing that they all belonged to the same "Secret Society" at Yale. The person who made him aware of this was a member of "Skull & Bones" attempting to expose it for what it is. Shortly after, Sutton recieved a documents package containing the "Actual Membership List of Skull & Bones" and several other documents of the same nature. Sutton then realized that all the key figures of his research were actually part of this secret clan at Yale. That is when it all came together for him. America's Secret Establishment : An introduction to the Order of Skull and Bones : For a review of this book or to Order Click Here! This package of documents was sent to 3 people. Antony Sutton, Craig Hulett, and the FBI. The FBI didn't do anything with it. (I wonder why?), Craig Hulett researched it and Antony Sutton published the results of his own research. To Order a Copy of this entire Package of Materials : Send a postal money order for $50.00 to 484 Lake Park Ave # 81, Oakland, Ca. 94610 Please leave the "Pay to" line blank, this enables us to pass it on without necessarily cashing it, thereby eliminating the need to borrow the federal reserve currency into circulation at interest. Main Families in Skull & Bones : (A) Whitney Family (1635, Watertown, Mass.) ( Perkins Family (1631, Boston, Mass.) © Phelps Family (1630, Dorchester, Mass.) (D) Bundy Family (1635, Boston, Mass.) (E) Taft Family (1679, Braintree, Mass.) (F) Wadsworth Family (1632, Newton, Mass.) (G) Lord Family (1635, Cambridge, Mass.) (H) Gilman Family (1638, Hingham, Mass.) (I) Harriman Family (Railroads) (J) Rockefeller Family (Standard Oil) (K) Payne Family (Standard Oil) (L) Davison Family (J.P. Morgan) (M) Weyerhaeuser Family (Lumber) (N) Pillsbury Family (Flour Milling) (O) Sloane Family (Retail) (1) A Little About the Whitneys : Initiated Name Field (A) 1851 Emerson Cogswell Whitney Education: "Died Dec. 1, 1851" ( 1854 Edward Payson Whitney Medicine: "Dissappeared in 1858" © 1856 James Lyman Whitney Library Work, Boston Public Library (D) 1863 William Collins Whitney Secretary of Navy (1885-9) Promoter & Financier (E) 1878 Edward Baldwin Whitney Law: Justice, New York Supreme Ct. (F) 1882 Joseph Ernest Whitney Education: "Died Feb. 25th, 1893" (G) 1894 Payne Whitney (Son of Finance: Knickerbocker Trust Co. William Collins Whitney (H) 1898 Harry Payne Whitney Finance: Guaranty Trust & Son of W.C. Whitney Guggenheim Exploration Co. (2) A Little About The Lords : (A) 1854 George de Forest Lord ( 1898 Franklin Atkins Lord © 1922 William Galey Lord+Francis Norton=Son Charles Edwin Lord 2nd (D) 1926 Oswald Bates Lord+Mary Pillsbury (Of Pillsbury Flour family)= Son Winston Lord (E) 1949 Charles Edwin Lord 2nd (F) 1959 Winston Lord The Lords Today: (G) Charles Edwin Lord : Acting Comptroller of the Currency (1981) (H) Winston Lord : Chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations (1983) Banking Members of Skull & Bones In Guaranty Trust : (Date Initiated) (A) Harold Stanley (1908) ( W. Murray Crane (1904) © Harry P. Whitney (1894) (D) W. Averall Harriman (1913) (E) Knight Wooley (1917) (F) Frank P. Shepard (1917) (G) Joseph R. Swan (1902) (H) Thomas Cochrane (1894) (I) Percy Rockefeller (1900) Post WWII Partners (J) George H. Chittenden (1939) (K) William Redmond Cross (1941) (L) Henry P. Davison Jr. (1920) (M) Thomas Rodd (1935) (N) Clement D. Gile (1939) (O) Daniel P. Davison (1949) Guaranty Trust was founded in 1864 in New York. Over the next 100 years the banking firm expanded rapidly by absorbing other banks and trust companies; in 1910 it merged Morton Trust Company, in 1912 the Standard Trust Company and in 1929, the National Bank of Commerce. The J.P. Morgan Firm has effectively controlled Guaranty Trust since 1912 when Mrs. Edward Harriman (Mother of Roland and Averell Harriman) sold her block of 8,000 shares of the total outstanding 20,000 shares to J.P. Morgan. By 1954 Guranty Trust had become the most important banking subsidiary of the J.P. Morgan Firm and since 1954 the merged firms have been known as Morgan Guaranty Company. Members of Skull & Bones in Brown Bros., Harriman (Formerly W.A.Harriman) (A) W.A. Harriman (1913) ( E. Roland Harriman (1917) © Ellery S. James (1917) (D) Ray Morris (1901) (E) Prescott Sheldon Bush (1917) (F) Knight Wooley (1917) (G) Mortimer Seabury (1909) (H) Robert A. Lovett (1918) Post WWII Partners (I) Eugene Wm. Stetson, Jr. (1934) (1937-1942) (J) Walter H. Brown (1945) (K) Stephen Y. Hord (1921) (L) John Beckwith Madden (1941) (M) Grange K. Costikyan (1929) Partner Not in the Skull & Bones (N) Matthew C. Brush (32nd Degree Mason) Members of Skull and Bones & Nazis in Union Banking Corp. : Directors in 1932 (A) E. Roland Harriman (1917) Vice President of W.A. Harriman and Co., N.Y. ( Knight Wooley (1917) Director of Guaranty Trust, N.Y. and Dir. of the Federal Reserve Bank of N.Y. © Ellery Sedgewick James (1917) Partner Brown Brothers and Co. N.Y. (D) Prescott Sheldon Bush (1917) Partner Brown Bros, Harriman, Father of Ex-President George Bush (E) H.J. Kouwenhoven (Nazi) Nazi banker, managing partner of August Thyssen Bank and Bank Voor Handel Scheepvaart N.V. (The transfer bank for Thyssen's funds) (F) Johann Groninger (Nazi) Director of Bank Voor Handel en Scheepvaart and Vereinigte Stahlwerke (Thyssen's Steel operations) The other two members were : (G) J.L. Guinter Director of Union Banking Corp. (H) Cornelius Lievense President, Union Banking Corp. and Director of Holland American Investment Corp. Established in 1924 as a unit of W.A. Harriman and Co. (A joint Walker, Thyssen, Harriman operation). The founding partners were George Herbert Walker, Co-founder & sponsor (Grandfather of George Herbert Walker Bush, Ex-President, on the Father's side. William Averill Harriman and Fritz Thyssen of the German Steel Trust. The office of Union Banking Corp. was the N.Y. office of the German Steel Trust. There you have it, The Financiers of Adolf Hitler & The USSR! Media (1) "The Nation" Magazine and New Republic on the "Left" were financed by Willard Straight, using Payne Whitney (Skull and Bones) Funds. (2) The "National Review" on the "Right" is published by William F. Buckley a member (wwww) War & Revolution Medicine (1) Daniel Coit Gilman, (1852) was 1st President of Johns Hopkins University. President of the University of California. President of the Carnegie Institution. Founded Russell Trust (Incorporated Skull and Bones at Yale in 1856). Studied at the University of Berlin between 1854 and 1855 under Karl Von Ritter and Friedrich Trendelenderg, both prominent "Right" Hegelians. (2) William H. Welch (1870) was President of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical research from 1910 to 1934. Education (1) Daniel Coit Gilman (See Above) (2) Andrew Dickson White (1853) was 1st President of Cornell University. First President of the American Historical Association. Studied at the University of Berlin between 1856-58. (3) Timothy Dwight (1849) was 12th President of Yale University. Studied at the Universitiers of Berlin and Bonn between 1856 and 1858. Also at the University of Berlin at the time when all three of these influencial bonesmen were there, was Wilhelm Wundt, the founder of experimental psychology in Germany and later the source od dozens of American Ph.D.s who came back from Leipzig, Germany to start the modern American Education Movement. (4) Alfonso Taft (1832) Co-founder of Skull and Bones, was the most influential Trustee of Antioch College. In 1853 Taft appointed Horace Mann as President of Antioch. Governmental Organizations (1) McGeorge Bundy (1940) was Special Assistant for National Security Affairs to President's Kennedy and Johnson from 1961 to 1966. In 1966, Bundy appointed President of the Ford Foundation, where he stayed until 1979. While at Ford, Bundy brought in as Vice-President in charge of Education and Research Division another member of Skull and Bones. Harold Howe II ( ) (2) Willaim Putnam Bundy (wwww) (3) Archibald MacLeish (1915) Helped write the Constitution for UNESCO. (4) Richard T. Ely (wwww) 1st Secretary of the American Economic Association. Firms With Links To Skull & Bones at, or Near, 120 Broadway In 1917: (A) 120 Broadway Edward H. Harriman (Before his death) ( 59 Broadway W.A. Harriman Company © 120 Broadway America International Corporation (D) 23 Wall J.P. Morgan Firm (E) 120 Broadway Federal Reserve Bank of New York (F) 120 Broadway Bankers Club (Top Floor) (E) 120 Broadway Thomas D. Thacher (of Simpson, Thacher & Bartlett) (F) 14 Wall William Boyce Thompson (G) 120 Broadway Guggenheim Exploration (H) 15 Wall Stetson, Jennings, & Russell (I) 120 Broadway C.A.K. Martens of Weinberg & Posner (The 1st Soviet "ambassador") (J) 110 W. 40th St. Soviet Bureau (K) 60 Broadway Amos Pinchot's Office (L) 120 Broadway Stone & Webster (M) 120 Broadway General Electric (N) 120 Broadway Sinclair Gulf Corp. (O) 120 Broadway Guaranty Securities (P) 140 Broadway Guaranty Trust Company (Q) 233 Broadway Anglo-Russian Chamber of Commerce Chart A: The Order of Skull & Bones in the Yale Faculty Member Date Initiated Position At Yale Beebe, William 1873 Professor of English Literature (1882-1917) Beers, Henry A. 1869 Professor of English Literature (1874-1926) Bellinger, Alfred R. 1917 Professor of Greek (1926- Dahl, George 1908 Professor of Yale Divinity School (1914-1929) Darling, Arthur B. 1916 Professor of History (1925-1933) Day, Clive 1892 Professor of Economic History (1902-1938) Dexter, Franklin B. 1861 Secretary, Yale University Dwight, Timothy 1849 President of Yale University Farnam, Henry 1874 Professor of Economics (1880-1933) French, Robert D. 1910 Professor of English (1919-1950) Gilman, Daniel C. 1852 Graves, Henry S. 1892 Dean, Yale School of Forestry (1900-1939) Gruener G. 1882 Professor of German (1892-1928) Hadley, Arthur T. 1876 President of Yale (1899-1921) Hilles, Frederick 1922 Professor of English (Professor of English 1921- Holden, Reuben A. 1940 Assistant to President (1947- Hoppin, James M. 1840 Professor of History of Art (1861-1899) Ingersoll, James W. 1892 Professor of Latin (1897-1921) Jones, Frederick S. 1884 Dean Yale College (1909-1926) Lewis, Charlton M. 1886 Professor of English (1898-1923) Lohman, Carl A. 1910 Secretary Yale University (1927- Lyman, Chester 1837 Professor of Mechanics (1859-1890) McLaughlin, Edward T. 1883 Professor of English (1890-1893) Northrop, Cyrus 1857 Professor of English (1863-1884) Packard, Lewis R. 1856 Professor of Greek (1863-1884) Peck, Tracy 1861 Professor of Latin (1889-1908) Perrin, Bernadotte 1869 Professor of Greek (1893-1909) Pierce, Frederick E. 1904 Professor of English (1910-1935) Root, Reginald D. 1926 Yale Football Coach (1933-1948) Schwab, John C. 1886 Professor of Political Economy (1893-1906) Seymour, Charles 1908 Prof. of History (1915-37), Pres. (1936-50) Seymour, Charles Jr. 1935 Professor of Art (1945- Silliman, Benjamin Jr. 1837 Professor of Chemistry (1846-1885) Stokes, Anson P. 1896 Secretary of Yale (1899-1921) Sumner, William G. 1863 Professor of Economics (1872-1909) Taft, William H. 1878 Professor of Law (1913) Tarbell, Frank B. 1873 Professor of Greek (1882-1887) Thacher, Thomas A. 1835 Professor of Latin (1842-1886) Thompson, John R. 1938 Professor of Law (1939- Walker, Charles R. 1916 Assistant Secretary (1943-1945) Woolsey, Theodore S. 1872 Professor of International Law (1878-1929) Wright, Henry B. 1898 Professor of History (1907-1911) Wright, Henry P. 1868 Professor of Latin (1871-1918), Dean Yale University (1884-1909) Chart B: Members of Skull and Bones in Education outside of Yale. Burtt, Edwin A. 1915 Professor of Philosophy, University of Chicago (1924-31) and Cornell University (1931-60) Alexander, Eben 1873 Professor of Greek and Minister to Greece (1893-97) Blake, Eli Whitney 1857 Professor of Physics, Cornell (1868-70) and Brown University (1870-95) Chauvenet, William 1840 U.S. Navel Academy (1845-59) and Chancellor Washington University (1862-69) Cooke, Francis J. 1933 New England Conservatory of Music Cooper, Jacob 1852 Professor of Greek, Center College (1855-66) Rutgers University (1866-1904) Cutler, Carroll 1854 President Western Reserve University (1871-1886) Daniels, Joseph L. 1860 Professor of Greek, Olivert College, and President (1865-1904) Emerson, Joseph 1841 Professor of Greek, Beloit College (1848-88) Estill, Joe G. 1891 Connecticut State Legislature (1932-1936) Evans, Evan W. 1851 Professor of Mathematics, Cornell University (1868-72) Ewell, John L. 1865 Professor of Church History, Howard University (1891-1910) Fisher, Irving 1888 Professor of Political Economy, Yale (1893-1935) Fisk, F.W. 1849 President, Chicago Theological Seminary (1887-1900) Green, James Payne 1857 Professor of Greek, Jefferson College (1857-59) Griggs, John C. 1889 Vassar College (1897-1927) Hall, Edward T. 1941 St. Marks School, Southborough, Mass. Harman, Archer 1913 St. Paul's School, Concord, N.H. Harman, Archer Jr. 1945 St. Paul's School, Concord, N.H. Hincks, John H. 1872 Professor of History, Atlanta University (1849-1894) Hine, Charles D. 1871 Secretary, Connecticut State Board of Education (1883-1920) Hoxton, Archibald R. 1939 Episcopal High School Hoyt, Joseph G. 1840 Chancellor Washington University (1858-1862) Ives, Chauncey B. 1928 Adirondack - Florida School Johnson, Charles F. 1855 Professor of Mathematics, U.S. Navel Academy (1865-70), Trinity College (1884-1906) Johnston, Henry Phelps 1862 Professor of History, N.Y. City College (1883-1916)} Johnston, William 1852 Professor of English Literature, Washington & Lee (1867-77) and Louisiana State University (1883-89) Jones, Theodore S. 1933 Institute of Contemporary Art Kingsbury, Howard T. 1926 Westminster School Knapp, John M. 1936 Princeton University Learned, Dwight Whitney 1870 Professor of Church History, Doshiba College, Japan (1876-1928) McClintock, Norman 1891 Professor of Zoology, University of Pittsburg (1925-1930) Macleish, Archibald 1915 Library of Congress (1939-1944), UNESCO, State Dept. OWI, Howard University Moore, Eliakim H. 1883 Professor of Mathematics, University of Chicago (1892-1931) Nichols, Alfred B. 1880 Professor of German, Simmons College (1903-1911) Norton, WIlliam B. 1925 Professor of History Boston University Owen, Edward T. 1872 Professor of French, University of Wisconsin (1879-1931) Parsons, Henry 1933 Columbia University Perry, David B. 1863 President, Douana College (1881-1912) Pomeroy, John 1887 Professor of Law, University of Illinois (1910-24) Potwin, Lemuel S. 1854 Professor, Western Reserve University Reed, Harry L. 1889 President, Auburn Theological Seminary Richardson, Rufus B. 1869 Director of American School of Classical Studies Athens (1893-1903) Russell, William H. 1833 Collegiate School, Hartford Seely, William W. 1862 Dean, Medical Faculty, University of Cincinnati (1881-1900) Southworth, George CS 1863 Bexley Theological Seminary (1888-1900) Stagg, Amos A. 1888 Dir. Physical Education, University of Chicago Stillman, George S. 1935 St. Pauls School Tighe, Lawrence G. 1916 Treasurer of Yale Twichell, Charles P. 1945 St. Louis Country Day School Tyler, Charles M. 1855 Professor of History, Cornell University (1891-1903) Tyler, Moses Coit 1857 Professor at Cornell (1867-1900) Watkins, Charles L. 1908 Director, Phillips Art School Yardley, Henry A. 1855 Berkeley Divinity School (1867-1882) Here are some related articles : Brand New!! Interview with Antony Sutton by "Sightings" - 3-19-00 Skull & Bones Article from Esquire Magazine Sept. 1977 - Click Here!! George Bush, Skull & Bones and the New World Order - by Paul Goldstein & Jeffrey Steinberg - April 1991 - Click Here!!

I have read Seagrave's book on Yamashta's gold hoard in the Philippines. It was the gold taken from Chinese and Indochinese temples and caches during the Japanese Imperial period. It ended up in the hands of US military and Philippine collaborators. It would not suprise me at all if Yamashta's gold was the funding source for dirty tricks, programs and illegal operations developed by Ed Lansdale and Alexander Haig...and I sure Nixon, Bush and Reagan recieved a portion as they protected Marcos...a highly recommended book........

I have seen photos of some African Americans talking to white men in suits on the grassy knoll in the immediate aftermath. The limousine came to a halt, and Kennedy turned around. "The back of his head" was the site of injury. In the Zapruder film, Kennedy is frozen in position and the limousine rolls on, and the side of his head is wounded ... Great post, Lee........

Great stuff Lee. Once again eye witness testimony conflicts with the Orwellian thought police version of sanitized history.

John Merrick, ie the ELEPHANT MAN? John Hurt played him in the film....

Pat, I think Vincent Salandria's perspective on this is right on. I don't know how else to explain the childish, inept nature of the coverup, except that it was done on purpose. If we assume (I certainly do) that the most powerful forces in our society were behind the assassination and the subsequent coverup, then certainly they would have been able to come up with a more sophisticated cover story. Conspirators of this caliber would not have come up with anything as ridiculous as the single-bullet theory, if they desired that the public never know the truth. They would have known that the bullet holes in JFK's clothing offer complete and utter disproof of this alone. They wouldn't have utilized an obviously mob-connected sleazeball like Jack Ruby to silence Oswald, especially while he was being "protected" by more than 70 police officers! There would have been any number of less suspicous ways to kill Oswald, most notably as he was "resisting" arrest in the Texas Theater. We also have the fact that criticism of the Warren Report was permitted, at least as far as articles and books were concerned (produced by mainstream publishing houses), creating widespread skepticism amongst the public at large. Other controversial subjects, wherein the author argued a large, governmental conspiracy theory, have not been produced by the same large publishing houses. For instance, many argue that the official versions of the Oklahoma City bombing and the 911 attacks were just as ridiculous as the official version of the JFK assassination. There aren't any books exposing the flaws in those official theories in the public library (well, okay, there is one about the OKC bombing-"Oklahoma City Bombing and the Politics of Terror" by Hoffman, which I urge everyone to read-but you get the point). And the fact that EVERY television journalist continues to support the absurd Warren Commission fairy tale, just supports Salandria's contention. They WANT us to know they know, and when the likes of Peter Jennings stare into the screen and mouth lies, they are sending the message to anyone with a cursory knowledge of the case that they are totally aware they are lying, and are aware that you know they are lying. The people who killed JFK knew that the public is basically apolitical, and except for a small minority like us, would realize that Oswald didn't do it, but wouldn't care about finding the real culprits. This very sad reality is reflected in polls that have consistently shown that while a huge majority of Americans believe there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, almost as large a majority do not support a new investigation. That's the mindset we have to deal with, and the real conspirators were educated enough to realize that ahead of time. Call it doing an endzone celebration, or a morbid victory dance, but I look at all the conspiratorial tidbits scattered throughout the 26 volumes of Hearings and Exhibits- which the original band of critics exposed so well-as a "in your face" type of statement by the conspirators. "Yes, we're saying this undamaged bullet caused 7 wounds, and we're even going to publish photos of identical bullets that came out badly damaged in test firing in our exhibits. Yes, we're going to still claim that JFK was shot only from behind, even though the one clear home movie of the killing we're going to (grudgingly) admit to be shown reveals that his head went backwards after the shot, in violation of a basic law of physics. Yes, we're going to claim that Oswald achieved this shooting on his own, even though we're going to include the fact that the top shooters in the country couldn't duplicate his feat as part of our record. Yes, our legal staff is not going to call some of the most crucial witnesses to the crime, and they are going to track down completely irrelevant people who had nothing at all to do with the events being "investigated." Yes, our post-assassination scenario for Oswald is going to be filled with the most illogical series of movements imaginable, and will feature a series of laughable witnesses that no real prosectution team would have used. Yes, we are going to have the alleged assassin gunned down on live TV, by an easily discovered low-level mobster, while he is shackled between two police officers, and our only answer to the obvious "he was silenced" reaction will be that Ruby was grief-stricken and didn't want Jackie Kennedy to testify at a trial. Yes, there will be a series of unnatural deaths of those who are connected in some way to the events in Dallas, and this will become common knowledge. Yes, we will publish some truly startling testimony from Jack Ruby, where he literally begs Earl Warren & co. to take him back to Washington so that he can 'tell the truth.'" I think you get my point (which I probably took too long to make). I think the conspirators would have been able to coverup this crime a lot better than they did, if they really wanted to. The fact is, I agree with Vincent Salandria that they wanted us to know. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Great stuff Dan. It was about power and intimidation....a message was sent clearly from the vigilantes to the public, from the cabal to the democracy it usurped...

James Jesus Angleton was in no sense "right," "correct" or ever vindicated. His paranoid and counter productive decimation of US intelligence is well documented. The failure of Angleton to ever find any high level SOviet moles in US intelligence is a well worn fact in US diplomatic history. Angleton's hysterical witch hunts reeked of McCarthyism and the worst kind of Cold War character assassination. To be very clear, James Jesus Angleton was himself responsible for the grave defects in US intelligence morale during his reign as Counter Intelligence Chief at the Central Intelligence Agency. The witchhunt ruined many carrers, while shrowded in secrecy, and his victims were unable to pursue legal recourse to regain their tarnished reputations and ruined careers. AJ Weberman's opinions on this matter of no real interest, as this is the YIPPIE most famous for digging through Bob Dylan's garbage, and his opinion about ALdrich Ames and Angleton bears no weight in serious discussions of Angleton's malfeasance and hysterical, reckless behaviour. No Mr. Angleton was not right, and his decimation of the agency was a travesty of justice unparalleled in US diplomatic history......

George Bush was in fine form during the Presidential Debates, citing chapter and verse on John Kerry's Congressional Record, hitting all his talking points and quickly coming up with facts and figures in a calm and reasonable manner. Quite unlike the Bush we know from his rare and controlled press conferences. My theory is that the President cheated by invoking National Security, as usual. As Commander in Chief he claimed the prerogative to enjoy state of the art communications technology, and if that earpiece happened to have a political debate expert on the hidden end, then that is "classified" .... We are at war and the President is all powerful, you know....... This story from Salon.com: NASA photo analyst: Bush wore a device during debate Physicist says imaging techniques prove the president's bulge was not caused by wrinkled clothing. By Kevin Berger Oct. 29, 2004 George W. Bush tried to laugh off the bulge. "I don't know what that is," he said on "Good Morning America" on Wednesday, referring to the infamous protrusion beneath his jacket during the presidential debates. "I'm embarrassed to say it's a poorly tailored shirt." Dr. Robert M. Nelson, however, was not laughing. He knew the president was not telling the truth. And Nelson is neither conspiracy theorist nor midnight blogger. He's a senior research scientist for NASA and for Caltech's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, and an international authority on image analysis. Currently he's engrossed in analyzing digital photos of Saturn's moon Titan, determining its shape, whether it contains craters or canyons. For the past week, while at home, using his own computers, and off the clock at Caltech and NASA, Nelson has been analyzing images of the president's back during the debates. A professional physicist and photo analyst for more than 30 years, he speaks earnestly and thoughtfully about his subject. "I am willing to stake my scientific reputation to the statement that Bush was wearing something under his jacket during the debate," he says. "This is not about a bad suit. And there's no way the bulge can be described as a wrinkled shirt." Nelson and a scientific colleague produced the photos from a videotape, recorded by the colleague, who has chosen to remain anonymous, of the first debate. The images provide the most vivid details yet of the bulge beneath the president's suit. Amateurs have certainly had their turn at examining the bulge, but no professional with a résumé as impressive as Nelson's has ventured into public with an informed opinion. In fact, no one to date has enhanced photos of Bush's jacket to this degree of precision, and revealed what appears to be some kind of mechanical device with a wire snaking up the president's shoulder toward his neck and down his back to his waist. Nelson stresses that he's not certain what lies beneath the president's jacket. He offers, though, "that it could be some type of electronic device -- it's consistent with the appearance of an electronic device worn in that manner." The image of lines coursing up and down the president's back, Nelson adds, is "consistent with a wire or a tube." Nelson used the computer software program Photoshop to enhance the texture in Bush's jacket. The process in no way alters the image but sharpens its edges and accents the creases and wrinkles. You've seen the process performed a hundred times on "CSI": pixelated images are magnified to reveal a clear definition of their shape. Bruce Hapke, professor emeritus of planetary science in the department of geology and planetary science at the University of Pittsburgh, reviewed the Bush images employed by Nelson, whom he calls "a very highly respected scientist in his field." Hapke says Nelson's process of analyzing the images are the "exact same methods we use to analyze images taken by spacecraft of planetary surfaces. It does not introduce any artifacts into the picture in any way." How can Nelson be certain there's some kind of mechanical device beneath Bush's jacket? It's all about light and shadows, he says. The angles at which the light in the studio hit Bush's jacket expose contours that fit no one's picture of human anatomy and wrinkled shirts. And Nelson compared the images to anatomy texts. He also experimented with wrinkling shirts in various configurations, wore them under his jacket under his bathroom light, and couldn't produce anything close to the Bush bulge. In the enhanced photo of the first debate, Nelson says, look at the horizontal white line in middle of the president's back. You'll see a shadow. "That's telling me there's definitely a bulge," he says. "In fact, it's how we measure the depths of the craters on the moon or on Mars. We look at the angle of the light and the length of shadow they leave. In this case, that's clearly a crater that's under the horizontal line -- it's clearly a rim of a bulge protruding upward, one due to forces pushing it up from beneath." Hapke, too, agrees that the bulge is neither anatomy nor a wrinkled shirt. "I would think it's very hard to avoid the conclusion that there's something underneath his jacket," he says. "It would certainly be consistent with some kind of radio receiver and a wire." Nelson admits that he's a Democrat and plans to vote for John Kerry. But he takes umbrage at being accused of partisanship. "Everyone wants to think my colleague and I are just a bunch of dope-crazed ravaged Democrats who are looking to insult the president at the last minute," he says. "And that's not what this is about. This is scientific analysis. If the bulge were on Bill Clinton's back and he was lying about it, I'd have to say the same thing." "Look, he says, "I'm putting myself at risk for exposing this. But this is too important. It's not about my reputation. If they force me into an early retirement, it'll be worth it if the public knows about this. It's outrageous statements that I read that the president is wearing nothing under there. There's clearly something there." [end Kevin Berg excerpt] salon.com

The Frank Olson Project is a website devoted to MK ULTRA and the COLBY admissions....google: frankolsonproject

See the Seminar Thread on Autopsy Photos and XRAY forgery by Dr. Minkel..........

Jim, your research into the Greek connection might lead to your uncovering some mighty big nuggets. I assume you know of the rumors that the right wing of Greece was largely funded by CIA, and that Greek dictator Papadopoulos was the CIA's point man in Greece before his push to overthrow Papandreou. I assume you're also aware that he took the money provided by the CIA to stop Greece from going commie and turned around and pumped it into Nixon's 68 campaign for President (which explains why Nixon picked Spiro Agnew as VP), via Greek-American businessman Thomas Pappas. If it can be established that Karamessines, Joannides, and Walker all played footsie with these guys than we have a whole new prism through which to view things. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Pat That was a great post. It summarizes what is hinted at in Anthony Summers' Arrogance of Power. Nixon was extremely sensitive about Pappas and Greece and I believe you have hit the nail on the head with that paragraph. Also, remember Louis Mountbatten and Prince Philip were royal family in Greece, and so MI/6 is mixed up in all of this. As I have stated elsewhere, Thomas Karamessines was STRUCTURALLY central to the Western Hemisphere domestic operations of JC KING, HOWARD HUNT, WM HARVEY, DESMOND FITZGERALD and DAVID ATTLEE PHILIPS.... Karamessines was, in effect, Helms and McCone's cut-out or deniable operations officer for the cover-up, if not the assassination of Kennedy itself.....

Does anyone have a picture of Slack so we can all evaluate this new "three tramps" lead?

Thanks Tim, That was really worth reading, I think a lot of that is in an old thread. Wm Morgan personified the violent criminals that the CIA was engaging in the early 1960's, and is typical also of the murky double agent themes.... While obviously he wasnt' at Dallas (he was Dead) I think he was typical of the people JC King, Howard Hunt and William Harvey were associating with during the domestic operations scandals of the early 1960's. Your tax dollars at work............

MADCOWPROP, a cool website, has posted this story on Porter Goss: "Look out kid, They keep it all hid.” Bob Dylan “Subterranean Homesick Blues” Aug 24 2004-Venice,FL. by Daniel Hopsicker THE MAN PICKED by President George W Bush to head America’s Central Intelligence Agency is even more of an intelligence insider than has so far been revealed... Although membership in a secret society would seem to compromise a bit anyone being considered to lead an Agency which is itself a secret society, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Republican Porter J Goss of Sanibel Island Florida is a member of the secret society “Book & Snake” at Yale. President George W Bush's nominee to head the nation's flagship intelligence agency also appears to be visible in a photograph taken in 1963 in a Mexico City nightclub of members of the CIA’s secret assassination squad known as “Operation Forty." The twin discoveries come as news reports indicate that Democrats have decided not to make a serious issue of Goss’s appointment. The top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee went so far as to warn fellow Democrats Sunday against trying to block the nomination. “Democrats should ask tough questions of Goss at Senate confirmation hearings next month, but my view is this is the wrong fight," Rep. Jane Harman, D-CA., said on NBC's "Meet the Press." Heavy on the Secret Sauce Could the skittishness about scrutinizing Goss be due to a secret past that would have difficulty passing closer scrutiny? No questions have yet been raised about the propriety of confirming as CIA Director someone who may have belonged to an assassination squad which was reportedly a joint collaboration between the CIA and the Mob. But questions have already been asked about the influence of secret societies on America’s supposedly democratic institutions, especially since both major Presidential candidates belong to a secret society, too: "Skull & Bones." Because no matter which candidate wins the Presidential election this November, it will be safe to exchange a discreet secret handshake in national security meetings in America for years to come. We first learned that Porter Goss owned multiple decoder rings from Kris Millegan, scholar of secret societies and editor of the recent “Fleshing Out Skull & Bones” (Trine Day 2003). Millegan unearthed a document listing “Book & Snake’s Class of 1960 roster. On the list, which also names deceased Secretary of Defense Les Aspin, is the name “Porter Johnston Goss.’ News that America's new Top Spook is a previously-undisclosed member of a secret society who will be chatting in the Oval Office with a boss who is also a member of a secret society raises a question of undue influence... Or, at the very least, of piling on. If being able to sing several verses of “The Whiffenpoof Song” is a prerequisite for a top job in American national security, the Founding Fathers should have enshrined it in the Constitution. Because if it is not, the question is: what gives? More Secrets in the Secret Sauce The notion that a young Porter Goss is visible in a photograph taken in a Mexico City nightclub on January 21 1963 was first broached to us in a letter from someone who noticed what he felt was a more than passing resemblance… “I saw a photo of Porter Goss taken in the 1970’s after he was elected to the Sanibel City Council and he looks virtually identical to the Mexico City Operation Forty person!” the letter asserted. We paid little heed, however, until a profile of the CIA nominee in the New York Times ran a picture of Goss taken in 1984. Even separated by two decades from the time the Mexico City picture was taken, we found the resemblance uncanny. If Goss is in the picture, it dovetails nicely with what is known of his CIA career. But it would be a 40-year old 'mistake' come back to haunt him. Because, we learned, there weren’t supposed to have been any pictures… According to numerous news accounts, the CIA recruited Goss during his junior year at Yale, where he completed his bachelor's degree in ancient Greek in 1960. "During his junior year, he met a CIA recruiter through his ROTC commanders,” reported the September 24, 2002 Orlando Sentinel, in a story headlined “TERRORISM FIGHT KEEPS REP. GOSS IN POLITICAL FRAY.” “It is true I was in CIA from approximately the late 50's to approximately the early 70's,” Goss told recent antagonist Michael Moore. "Guido, meet the General. General, meet Guido." The Mexico City nightclub photo reveals a mixed group of apparent Cuban exiles, Italian wise guys, and square-jawed military intelligence types. It was discovered among keepsakes kept in the safe of the widow of CIA pilot and drug smuggler Barry Seal (third from left). It appears on the cover of “Barry & ‘the boys:’ The CIA, the Mob & America’s Secret History” (MadCow Press, Eugene OR. 2001). Goss appears second on the left. He is seated between notorious CIA pilot and drug smuggler Barry Seal (third left) and the equally-notorious CIA assassin Felix Rodriguez (front left), a Cuban vice cop under the corrupt Mob-run Batista regime who later became an Iran Contra operative and a confidant of the first George Bush. The only one of the spook celebrants displaying any hint of tradecraft (seated on the other side of the table covering his face with his sport coat) is Frank Sturgis, most famous as one of the Watergate burglars. Beside him sits (front right) William Seymour, New Orleans representative of the Double-Chek Corporation, a CIA front used to recruit pilots (like Seal), and a man who many Kennedy assassination researchers believe impersonated Lee Harvey Oswald on several occasions when the lone nut gunman was out of the country and so unable to impersonate himself. As we saw it, the photo was in a yellowed frame, the kind used by nightclub photographers to create instant keepsakes. Seal’s widow Debbie Seal kept it in her safe, where it was overlooked by a 7-man team from the State Department which arrived at her house in 1995 to comb through her records. It bears the name of a nightclub in Mexico City, and is stamped January 22, 1963, which, if you’re counting, was exactly ten months to the day before the Kennedy assassination. Barry Seal was then a young-looking 24-year old. Porter Goss was the same age. "You don't have the negative too do you?" The sensitive nature of this picture was confirmed to us by a person who had known and worked with Seal since 1964, an individual who had obviously been close with the Louisiana native, the basis for the hit song in the 'mid-60's by buddy Johnny Rivers, called "Secret Agent Man.” Seal’s will had named this man executor of his estate. And his reaction to seeing the picture was instantaneous and shocked. “Where did you get that?” he demanded. “I didn’t know there were any…Where did this picture come from? ” Seated with Seal in that nightclub in Mexico City in 1963 are men whose lives and careers comprise a large part of America’s recent secret history, we learned. Arrayed around the table were members of the CIA’s much-whispered about assassination squad, Operation Forty, first helmed by then-Vice President Richard Nixon. Barry Seal was one of them. Perhaps so was Porter Goss. There are many intriguing connections hinted at by Goss’s presence in the photo: at the time it was taken the CIA's covert action chief in Mexico City was David Atlee Phillips, AKA Maurice Bishop, who reportedly met with Oswald in Dallas before the assassination. Other connections: in the well-received “Deadly Secrets,” authors Warren Hinkle and William Turner name Rafael 'Chi Chi' Quintero, Lois Posada Carriles, Felix Rodriguez and Frank Sturgis as members of Operation Forty, under the overall control of E. Howard Hunt. Sturgis, a member of the team that broke into Democratic National Committee headquarters at the Watergate complex in 1972, later admitted to having been part of Operation Forty. More famous names: Thomas Clines, the notorious Edwin Wilson and "Blond Ghost" Ted Shackley, Mr. Spook himself… all involved with Operation Forty, as was Barry Seal. “Yeah, Barry was Op Forty,” Gerald Hemming confirmed to us. “He flew in killer teams inside the island (Cuba) before the invasion to take out Fidel.” CIA Colonel William Bishop showed author Dick Russell a series of photographs of "Latin-looking individuals. On the backs of the pictures were the words "Special talent 1960-65, Ice pick man ... Butcher... Sniper and demo [demolition] expert ... Propaganda ... Knife man... Pilot and navigator ... Mutilator." “Bishop said, ‘We weren't playing a nice game.’” "It Depends on Your Definition of ‘Is’” When nephew Chuck Giancana wrote about Mob Boss Sam Giancana’s strategic move to Mexico in early 1963, he too touched on Operation Forty. "It was to be an all-out, no-holds-barred Latin American push. Mooney (Giancana) settled into a lavish Mexico City apartment and went right to work, drawing on the expertise and mammoth resources of the recently-formed CIA team of assassins and operatives specifically trained for Latin American clandestine operations. CIA insiders jokingly dubbed the team the White Hand, an allusion to the Mafia killer progenitors the Black Hand." “Rep. Porter J. Goss has disclosed precious few details of his CIA employment from roughly 1960 to 1971,” reported a profile in the Associated Press. Reuters called him a “mystery man,” and said he had been “close-mouthed about his past.” “He worked in Haiti, the Dominican Republic and Mexico-tumultuous countries during that decade of the Cold War,” Reuters reported. During a 2002 interview with The Washington Post, Goss joked that he performed photo interpretation and "small-boat handling," which led to "some very interesting moments in the Florida Straits." He acknowledged he had recruited and run foreign agents and said he would be uncomfortable traveling to Cuba but wouldn't say more. America’s vaunted free press shows no inclination to press him on the matter. And when a citizen becomes a little too inquisitive, disinformation appears to be the order of the day: In a Metro section Q&A in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution (Aug 20 2004) a reader asks: “I know both President Bush and Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) were members of Skull and Bones, the secret society at Yale University, when they were students.” “Bush's nominee for CIA director, Rep. Porter Goss (R-FL.), also is a Yale graduate. Was he, too, a member of Skull and Bones?” “Goss, who graduated from Yale in 1960, had no affiliation with Skull and Bones, said his spokeswoman, Julie Almacy,” the paper’s editors replied. "You're not cleared for that information." Nothing about “Book & Snake." Not even points for a good guess. The party line rings out from everywhere... “With a prep-school education and a Greek major at Yale, Goss passed up the conventional life to be a CIA spook,” reads one typical wire service account. Actually, the facts lean heavily towards the proposition that with “a prep school education and a Greek major at Yale,” Goss’s choice to become a CIA spook was an entirely conventional one. In testimony before Congress on February 9, 2004, Chief Weapons Inspector David Kay noted that "closed orders and secret societies, whether they be religious or governmental, are the groups that have the hardest time reforming themselves in the face of failure without outside input." When was the last time anyone heard a weapons inspector mention secret societies? The appointment of Porter Goss reveals that what passes for American civic life may in reality be just an elaborate game of Inside Baseball. For example, Goss found himself paired with fellow Floridian, Democratic Sen. Bob Graham, then the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, leading the joint congressional inquiry into the attacks. They share another unique distinction: both men were having breakfast on the morning of September 11th with a man who had reportedly wired $100,000 to Mohamed Atta, said news accounts. "When the news [of the attacks on the World Trade Center] came, the two Florida lawmakers who lead the House and Senate intelligence committees were having breakfast with the head of the Pakistani intelligence service.” Oh, to have been a fly on the wall during that negotiation. After the CIA-backed coup against Castro collapsed at the Bay of Pigs, President Kennedy fired CIA chief Allen Dulles. That same year another young Ivy League graduate entered the high-stakes espionage game being played out between the Florida Keys and the coast of Cuba... Porter Goss, product of a patrician Connecticut upbringing, graduating from an elite preparatory school and Yale University. This is probably all just coincidence. But then again... maybe its not. “Man in a trench coat, Badge out, laid off, Says he's got a bad cough… Wants to get paid off. The pump don't work, 'Cause the Vandals took the handles”

That dictabelt is not going to tell us anything we don't already know. Voices from well after the shooting, police dispatchers, are heard. If the gunshots are not clear to the "naked" ear, I will never trust a computer enhancement where analysts claim to hear shots in the motorcycle and radio interference.... Readers Digest? The Annenberg family patriotic wash? That's a source? Come on............ "Archie and Jughead" might have some insight, but "Reader's Digest?".... sorry.

Oswald always wrote in a bureaucratic and hedged style that showed signs of coaching. He was false in Japan, false in Minsk and false in Dallas.......

James, Do you remember which thread had the William Morgan material? I would like to bring that up for review again. He and Charles Rogers, if not involved in Dallas, certainly give us a sense of what was going on in the US paramilitary universe circa 1963... Shanet

At Georgia State University in Atlanta we viewed this film in our undergraduate German History class. We also read Ernst Junger's Copse 125. I believe this sort of material can be responsibly used in history classes. While the cunning nature of the propaganda does present some ethical issues, the material is a true primary document of the times. There is a powerful trend toward cultural studies in history, and the class also viewed Der Bleu Angel with Marlene Dietrich and Murderers Among Us, set in the rubble of Post war Berlin...Americans in general are shocked and somewhat amused that the "german boy scouts" were an element in Nazi race hatred, and the film, I believe, is suitable for viewing by college students, with appropriate guidance...films of this nature, if unavailable elsewhere, can often be found on EBAY....... shanet clark woodruff history fellow gsu

Wade, Please do not assume we all have the same information that you do. If you start a thread on someone please give us what you have on him, to get us started...just a thumbnail sketch, for reference, please... Thanks, Shanet

Great thread. Rufus Taylor moves from the MacArthur office in Japan (where Alaxander Haig learned his Imperial manner) then into Pacific Naval Intelligence, ONI and DDI under Helms.... This of course ties in with my theory, as both John F. Kennedy and Lee Harvey Oswald had Naval security clearances first and foremost. When we talk about the lapse in security based on Oswald's defection and counter-defection, we are talking about ONI and Rufus Taylor. If ONI was spying on JFK, or accessing NSA material on JFK, Rufus Taylor would have been the man to bring "incapacity and loss of clearance" findings to JCS chief Maxwell Taylor, CD Dillon and LB Johnson. The ONI supplied the patsy, the low level "burn card" and public Communist Lee Harvey Oswald, who was served up for public consumption, and guaranteed to stymie any thorough investigation (on National Security grounds). The Naval records and subsequent files on Kennedy (and Oswald) would have been the primary responsibility of Rufus Taylor, who, like NSA/DDI Marshall Carter, was elevated (rather than fired) in the aftermath of Dallas to a top position in the CIA. A joint agency operation involving Maxwell Taylor, Rufus Taylor of ONI, C.D. Dillon, J. Edgar Hoover and Lyndon Johnson would appear to tie up quite a few loose ends concerning JFK, Oswald and the cover-up....

John, I suspected John Tower about the time of the cover-up he orchestrated on the Iran Contra commission. The parameters were set in such a way that the commission would not discuss the OCTOBER SURPRISE of 1980, which launched the entire support effort toward Iran, TOW weapons, spare parts etc. The book LANDSLIDE is an excellent overview of the Oliver North NSC actions in Iran under ADMIRAL POINDEXTER. I think you will find that the publicly stated reason for Tower's being refused the top defence position was his sexual proclivities, affairs, womanizing, and alcoholism.

NIX versus Moorman:

Here's the problem. Bill Miller prefers to believe the Moorman, and I say the NIX is a better source.