Shanet Clark

The Bartholomew makes a number of cryptic (to me) references to George Wing and these signals he was sending. What is the deal with George Wing and the Rambler. Was Eladio Del Valle the driver who took Oswald away from the TSBD? Here's the link to the article, it concerns UT Austin, Dulles, Forrestal, Dillon-Read, and a number of covert ops. Its about twenty pages long. It is a real interesting conspiracy article, but skips around from topic to topic and has many inside references: (I printed it out and read it hardcopy) http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_...rmblr94.fp.html

Here is a BENDIX product, circa 1965. Can you say Military Industrial Complex?

Strange court correspondence. The only Edward F. Bray I found was an officer in the CCIA, the Connecticut Contractors Industrial Association. The man Bray claimed to have film of the assassination taken from the TSBD and a film of a practice ambush staged at Denison Dam, Wyoming. Anyone else heard of this anomalous film, or films? He claims to have offered it to LIFE magazine, and that is stimulated an ONI investigation. Bray also claims to have warned Connally in a letter in August of 1963. Strange.... [the court documents refer to CIVIL ACTION 27451, 7th District Court Wyoming, 1965 "Bendix Corporation vs. Bray"] Addition to post: Larry Hancock was right. I googled BENDIX BRAY and found this in FAIRPLAY online magazine. Excerpt of long article [red text copyright Richard Bartholomew 1994] : Bill Kelly made a fascinating connection regarding the June 7, 1963 Life magazine (see my appendix). I looked through it in vain for anything as obviously JFK connected as in the Esquires. Bill called on May 14, 1994 and said it is obvious if you are familiar with a little-known story among the Kennedy assassination lore. In the magazine is a small story about dredging the underwater debris field of a nuclear sub that sank the previous April, the Thresher. As I have recently learned, only a handful of researchers -- Bill Turner, Kenneth Formet and Larry Haapanen among them -- know anything about this aspect of the assassination. According to Kelly and Haapanen, no one has ever published a word about it; a fact that is most intriguing with regard to Wing's back seat magazines. It is the Bray-Thresher story. I first read about it in Bill Kelly's excellent unpublished manuscript. In brief, Edward F. Bray sent Governor Connally a warning letter on August 12, 1963. It said that, "a plot is underway to assassinate you." Bray, who worked for the Bendix Corporation, claimed he had been visited by some men who said they were investigating the sinking of the Thresher. They said they were members of an organization known as Justice for the Crew of the Thresher (JFCOTT). The men claimed its members were planning to assassinate John B. Connally and another former Secretary of the Navy, Fred Korth. Bray reported this to the authorities three months before the assassination. He also predicted, based on what he had learned from the men, that Connally would be shot by a disgruntled ex-serviceman with a high powered rifle while riding in an open car during a parade in Dallas. The men later returned, according to Bray, and left him an 8mm film of the assassination, taken from the vantage point of the alleged assassin's lair on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository. Bray claimed that stills from the film were received by Chief Justice Earl Warren. The Bendix Corp. was the plaintiff and Bray was the defendant in a trial that took place in Natrona County, Wyoming in March, 1965. Court documents obtained by researcher Kenneth Forment indicate that Bray tried, unsuccessfully, to have the film entered into evidence. Bray claimed he later showed the film to former Presidential assistant Theodore Sorensen, at a banquet in Portland, Oregon in 1966. when contacted by Formet, however, Sorensen's office, declined to comment on anything involving the assassination of President Kennedy. Bill Kelly speculates that alternative motives were being set up for Oswald in case the `lone-nut' scenario did not hold up. The JFCOTT motive, according to Kelly, "was predicated upon Oswald's dissatisfaction with his `undesirable' military discharge." Kelly also points out that during World War II, George DeMohrenschildt lived in Washington D.C. with two men, one a British MI6 agent, and the other a U.S. Naval officer named Hall, who was later a skipper of the Thresher, but not at the time of its accident. Kelly also notes that "DeMohrenschildt also went out of his way to introduce Oswald to retired Admiral Chester `Henri' Bruton, a former nuclear sub commander who was a senior executive at Collins Radio. Burton's [sic] last job for the Navy was to redesign the Navy's communications systems with its nuclear submarine fleet." On May 21, I talked with David Gage, whom I've known for several years through local politics. He joined the Navy in 1970, was in underwater demolitions, attended Marine sniper school, and spent most of his Navy career serving submarine duty. For many years he's been involved in high-level sonar research at the University of Texas. When I mentioned the June 7, 1963 Life pictorial about the dredging operations, he surprised me by saying, "Yeah, the one showing the O-rings." I asked how he knew that. He said everyone in the submarine fraternity knows about the Thresher. He had never heard of JFCOTT or the Bray incident, however -- a fact also intriguing with regard to Wing. According to Gage, the common opinion among submarine crews is that the official story is wrong. Thresher, he said, could not have been crushed due to a failure of its pressure gauges. Subs have several backup systems and the engineers even have non-technical means of sensing depth. Gage's theory, shared by other submarine crewmen, is that Thresher was involved in an unauthorized search and destroy bluff of a Soviet sub. It is a game he admitted being involved in often. They would carry the bluff as far as opening the torpedo doors -- which can be heard by the enemy sub. When I asked if they always stopped short of firing, he said, "If they fired, no one ever admitted it." He described a tricky maneuver that Hunter class subs use in this game to position themselves behind the enemy. It causes a period of blindness of the surrounding terrain. He suspects Thresher clipped a mountain during one of these maneuvers. A coverup could have simply been to keep the Soviets from making political hay out of it. But David said those who knew anything could have kept it from ONI investigators without all that much difficulty. I asked him about Collins Radio equipment on board and he said he didn't know of any used for navigation, which is what he did. He added that they could have been used in communications but subs never transmitted, they only received. He encouraged me to keep digging and said if he comes across anyone with knowledge of the Thresher he would put me in touch with them. I also intend to contact a former next door neighbor, Eric Copt, who is now an executive with Chevron Oil in Denver, Colorado. He was serving on a sub in 1963 which was later in the Tonkin Gulf during the "attack" on the Maddox. I also need to see if another fellow I know, Gerrell Moore, can shed any light on this. He's currently the comptroller of the Pflugerville Independent School District. He was the chief intelligence officer (NSA) aboard the Maddox during the Tonkin Gulf incidents. He's been telling what he knows about that period for years but none of the "authors" who have interviewed him, including one from U.S. News and World Report, have every published his more incriminating observations. He may at least know someone equally willing to talk about the Thresher. The fundamental question, though, is: What, if any, was George Wing's interest in the subject? {End excerpt of the long FAIRPLAY online article by R. Bartholomew] ..............Well, that makes it all clear as mud................ This would indicate that BENDIX had some naval contracts and they sued Mr. Bray over these accusations about BENDIX employees planning an assassination (Connally's) ....... this all may lead somewhere. It is possible Mr. Bray stumbled onto the planning of an assassination ...

John, I just found a great quote from Alexander Cockburn's new book, the chapter on Gary Webb and the CIA is available online at COUNTERPUNCH: "Most revealing, perhaps, Cockburn and St.Clair quote the Washington Post's president, Katherine Graham, as assuring CIA recruits in 1988 that << "We live in a dirty and dangerous world. There are some things the general public does not need to know, and shouldn't. I believe democracy flourishes when the government can take legitimate steps to keep its secrets and when the press can decide whether to print what it knows.">>

A white four door 1962 Impala...would that be the car in the NIX film? Thanks, Antti, I think the testimony of the Railroad Tower observers is critical to understanding the plot.

Great thread. The Cuban team was a bit larger and dirtier than the press about Watergate indicated, and of course, James, you had the GOODS, as usual. (The person they were looking for in the POST article John posted was Howard Hunt, and of course Gordon Liddy was arrested after they raided the Cuban's hotel room. For former CIA agents, these guys were terrible at spycraft. Names, phonebooks, photos, I.D., cash, it really looked like they wanted to get caught. The most interesting thing to me about the Watergate burglary is this image I have of Frank Sturgis hammering and wrenching a door in the corridor, pounding loudly in the stair well, if I remember. We all wonder how this extended family of Cuban CIA mercenaries connect Watergate [6/19/72] to Dallas [11/22/63] As far as an extra man with a hotel room --- Lou Russell was the sixth man. He may have been McCord's CIA contact, and he slipped away the night of the arrest. If there was another Cuban at the Howard Johnson or Sheraton I have never heard of it before..........

Great lead, Tim.... I read Maheu's biography by Ron Laytner, and Maheu has mixed feelings. He harbors a lot of resentment about Howard Hughes and the people who took over the Hughes empire. He probably has similar feeling of being misused concerning JOHNNY ROSELLI and the "Murder Incorporated we were running down in the Caribbean" (quoting LBJ) A legitimate writer or investigator (who had his facts straight and was well prepared) could probably get some juicy material out of Bob Maheu. He, more than anyone, understands the relationships between Howard Hughes, the CIA, Robert Bennett and the Watergate burglary. Since he is a known sponsor and go between with JM/WAVE and organized crime figures, he should be pursued.

I agree with Mike. I didn't comment, in public or by emailing Denis, but I was disappointed in Denis' line of thinking during the "Astuccia" debate. Denis probably got some angry emails for those posts. He really "showed his As ... tuccia"

The full text of the twenty fifth amandment is now posted on the regular forum threads. While I believe John Simkins and James Richards have isolated the basic structure of the "Tactical" aspects of 11/22/63; I believe this theory, broad in scope, explains the larger "STRATEGIC" aspects. The incapacity pretext may have been based on any number of things, but please think to yourself what individuals like Maxwell Taylor, Edwin Walker and James jesus Angleton would have thought of the tapes and photos of JFK, his escapapdes and exploits....in the language of the day, executive action, executive sanction, clearance violation, incapacity, unfit for duty.... were these the pretexts for the joint agency effort and cover-up?????

Anyone who doubts the power of the incapacity rationale or the willingness of "national security" executives to strip JFK of his security clearance, his command (and his life) should carefully read this article POSTED RECENTLY ON NAVYSEALS.COM QUOTE : Kennedy's Private Ills by Richard Reeves Paul Fay, who served with John F. Kennedy in World War II, remained close enough to the lieutenant who would become president that he occasionally watched J.F.K. inject himself in the thigh with the corticosteroids that kept him alive. The president used that needle twice every day to replace the adrenaline his glands no longer produced because he had Addison's disease. Jack, said Paul Fay, the way you take that jab, it looks like it doesn't even hurt. The president lunged at his friend and stabbed the needle into his leg. As Paul Fay screamed in pain, Kennedy said, it feels the same way to me. Paul Fay told of that incident in the manuscript of "The Pleasure of His Company," a memoir he wrote in 1966. No one knew that, though, because the president's widow, Jacqueline, and his brother, Robert, crossed out those paragraphs before publication. That was the way it was done. Kennedy lied and lied about his health while he was alive, even using his father's influence to get into the Navy without ever taking a medical examination. After he was assassinated on Nov. 22, 1963, his family and the men who had served him continued the lying and began the destruction, censoring and hiding of Kennedy's medical records. Still, the story of Kennedy's courage and deception has gradually surfaced over the last 39 years. The latest details, based primarily on the files of Janet Travell, one of his many doctors, were published this week. Robert Dallek, a historian, and Jeffrey Kelman, a physician, were granted access to some Kennedy records, including X-rays by Dr. Travell that showed J.F.K.'s spinal troubles were actually caused by extraordinarily painful osteoporosis. The myth of war or football injuries had long been exposed as false, but until now neither scholars nor the public knew the exact cause of his crippling back pain. Perhaps his medical history is close to complete (and true) now. It has been a long struggle against obsessive secrecy involving dozens of researchers. My own research and book on Kennedy made public entries from the diary of Dr. Max Jacobson, the New York doctor who regularly (and very secretly) injected Kennedy with speedballs of vitamins, animal placentas and amphetamines. In 1976, Joan and Clay Blair Jr. gained access to records of Kennedy's childhood medical problems, which included teenage venereal disease. One great irony of the generally successful efforts to conceal Kennedy's many illnesses is that the basic story was available as long ago as 1955, when the American Medical Association's Archives of Surgery, in an article titled "Management of Adreno-cortical Insufficiency During Surgery," recounted the medical history of a 37-year-old man who was the first Addisonian to survive traumatic surgery. The operation took place on Oct. 21, 1954. The 37-year-old man was easily identifiable as Senator John F. Kennedy. He opted for the surgery at New York Hospital after physicians told him he would probably die on the table. I would rather be dead, he answered, than live with this kind of pain. Paul Martin, of the then-small Gannett newspaper chain, published the story in early 1961, but no one paid any attention. That would not happen now. The press is a great deal more aggressive than it was in the good old days. Political life is more transparent now. Witness the skeptical surveillance of the medical charts of Bill Bradley in 2000 or Vice President Dick Cheney today. By our rules now, John F. Kennedy almost certainly could never have become president. END QUOTE FROM NAVY SEALS . COM So what is going on here? A running propaganda program by ONI - to prepare people for the incapacity findings ... very telling piece on Presidential health and capacity............

Interesting material. The powerful Dallas and the Warren Commission cabal wanted the blame for the WATERGATE BURGLARY to get kicked upstairs, which would take the heat off of BARKER MCCORD HUNT GONZALES STURGIS & MARTINEZ ..... Bush as the deep throat for Woodward points this way. Was Bush a surrogate for Nelson Rockefeller at this point? A "Liberal" GOP Wall street insider with a strong interest in intelligence and central america.... Certainly G.BUSH took the last of the Nixon GOP Party 1974 slush funds. He then used them in '76 for Ford and in '80 (for himself)...... Bush and Haig were transitional figures as Nixon resigned, power brokers throughout the resignation- impeachment drama.... they had a separate if not secret agenda.......

KGB? Did the KGB run the Secret Service? Did the KGB run Bethesda Naval Hospital? Did the KGB run the FBI? DId the KGB employ McCOrd, Barker, Bissell, the Cabell brothers, David Attlee Philips, David Morales, the BIg Indian and Eugene Brading? Did the KGB run the Warren Commission, the House HSAC? DId the KGB control the NSA, DI, NARA, Marine Intelligence and ONI? Tim, I try to read your posts, but you go against all the other evidence on all the other threads....the link to Moscow is so tenuous, it is absurd. If you ranked them you might get: Joint MI/CIA effort. MI rogue effort. CIA rogue effort with disgruntled BOP Cubans. Organized crime taking CIA contract with protection. Cabal of CD DILLON Cabal of JOHNSON Cabal of H.L. HUNT and CLINT MURCHISON Strange counterintelligence "staged false assassination" turned at the last minute. The Warren Commission findings: Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. Two unnamed unknown assassins with no institutional ties. Then, the least likely of all a) Castro KGB The only thing less likely is a Bolivian or Argentine effort....

Alan, there are a number of online sites to view the Nix film. The Classic gunman contracts and focuses, is trained on, or 'tracks' the limousine. His stance narrows, and he faces to his right as the limo passes. He remains in place for quite a while, after Zapruder hops down. If he is not at the break in the wall, he is foreshortened to there by the lens which would place him back with the Landau Roof Coupe (British?) car he is paired with. He can't be that far back because he is in front of the Pergola. If he was back in the lot, he would have been too large, if he is at the wall he is proper sized, but not seen in other photos. If there had been return fire, which no witnesses claim, he would have been hit. I am not happy with the suggestion that he is a shadow and light figure. His extended right elbow is clearly beyond the wall. NIX CLASSIC GUNMAN does appear to track the limo, from my viewing of it .... or at least he stays pointed directly at the Limo (and therefore, Nix...)

The Paines, like Marina and Lee, were under pressure from a hazy counter-espionage force after Lee returned from Minsk with the elite Russian wife, Marina. George Baron DeMorenschildt played both (or all) sides. He was a conduit into the White Russian reaction, and all these activities were known to be possibly penetrated by the KGB. Epstein shows DeMorenschildt as MARINA's principle handler, because of her GRU/KGB family connections... The Paine's leftist enrollment must be viewed skeptically because of the high degree of infiltration anf infestation-- with corporate ties to Bell Helicpter, Paine was mixed of loyalties. Certainly John is right that it is more realistic to see veiled and delayed pressure than explicit and early pressure, but the level of government and Soviet co-operation going on inside the PAINE DEMORENSCHILDT OSWALD extended family is unknown, but it is obvious that there were files and covert domestic programs tied to the shadowy force, DEMORENSCHILDT.

Great photo post No overlays, lines, circles or cartoons! Again we see men in suits, equally spaced, combing the evidentiary kill site in a police action. Note how the press bus is pointed directly at the south knoll triple overpass, a shot from the left would have been more head-on at Zframe 313 than a shot from the right (grassy Knoll) At least 15 observers are on the overpass at the tracks .... Can anyone identify the guy with a crew cut and Eisenhower jacket? He is screaming air force intelligence southerner to me....

Absolutely, this type of material is a wonderful primary document for real understanding. A number of declassified files are now on CD ROM I picked up a copy of the OPERATION INLET files. Heavily sanitized, these were FBI news information "white papers" on domestic intelligence that were sent into the NIXON white house by J EDGAR HOOVER. They play to Nixon and Hoover's prejudices and insecurities and report on the Yippies, the Black Panthers and the Quakers efforts to end the war....INLET shows this kind of primary news brief... My files run to about 500 pages (half are substantive) and cost about $10

By Golly, if Gordon Arnold said it - then it must be true! If it was only ten minutes after the shooting and a half an hour to Ft. Worth - then these must be DALLAS cops! Well, golly, if nobody testified about the puddle, it couldn't be blood... Gary mack said ....

Clark or Sharp?

I was talking about close in work with handguns. In one case a .44 and a .38 meant the two local gangs eliminating an upstart. Any rifle murders at that time would have been mainly on the OAS side, I believe. The .22, the 6.5 and the 7.6 thats what we've got here, I believe, maybe a 30.03 Is that about right? I think this would signal a coalition. Perhaps a Texas Oil team , a BOP Cuban team and the Giancana Mob team, represented by three calibers. This is how many see it, a "compact" contract.

{Rescinded} lame thread

The detectives are obviously not all local and they carry the extra raincoats over their arms to cover things they might happen to pick up..........

Great link. Manuel Ray crossed Wm. Pawley somehow, and was "tardy" in his anti-Castroism...this shows a number of grey areas, The grey area around Castro/anti-Castro, shifting over time The grey area around offshore sponsored/CIA ops i.e. the "who is in charge" issue of government / mercenary / mafia / revolutionaries This is a jurisdictional problem common to Iran Contra, southeast asia and WH 1963. The grey area around caribean assassination and coup responsibilities circa 1963. He could have been a double agent working with Trafficante or Cuban handlers...

James, I think Woodward constructed a composite character when Hollywood began to show an interest in the novelization 'ATPM.' Fielding may have formed part of his intelligence sources but Al Haig and FBI man Mark Felt are probably part of the DEEP THROAT characterization as well. Woodward was an executive briefer in the late 1960s for the Navy, and had sources inside the Phil and Katie Graham/Mockingbird/Pentagon circle... now his elitism grows and his critical senses fail more with every book. Like Jack Anderson, he has his own private agenda, a statist, a positivist, ...and what he knows, but won't tell us -- that is the real story -- The Bush angle is interesting, it would show a TEXAS CIA cabal stepping in to take advantage of the power vacuum emerging with the scandal... HMMMMM>>>>>>>>have to ponder this one a bit

Tom I read that Jimi died of pharmaceutical Darvon, or synthetic painkillers. These large pills were meant to be split into four pieces by hand, but Jimi misunderstood and ingested 16 regular doses. When he was strapped into the gurney sitting up, he was condemned to die, because he aspirated on his own vomit, being strapped in. The negligence of the EMT's on that night is largely to blame, and the circumstances of the OD and the ambulance run gave rise to conspiracy theories (which may or may not have merit) That is the story as I understood it from published material..

In 1969, United Mine Workers union leader Jock Yablonski was murdered in his home, by a hit team, for $4500. The drunk hired murders killed his wife and daughter, as well. De Classified White House 1970 intelligence reports from the FBI to the White House show a strange reluctance to link the murder to TONY BOYLE, the UMW President who was later convicted of ordering the murder. The OPERATION INLET files were a domestic intelligence report for the President and they are highly redacted. These WHITE HOUSE files were constructed by the management of the FBI for Nixon and John Dean. THE REDACTED MATERIAL IN THE FBI-WHITE HOUSE PROGRAM INLET FILES SHOW A CLOSE INTEREST IN THIS MURDER AND A RELUCTANCE TO INDICT TONY BOYLE. APPARENTLY THE NIXON WHITE HOUSE HAD A VESTED INTEREST IN PROTECTING THE MURDERER TONY BOYLE. fyi (recent CD Rom of INLET also shows Black Panther, CPUSA, Quaker and Yippie domestic intelligence memos to the President)