Shanet Clark

I read the NYTIMES review of the Anthony Summers SINATRA book. The reviewer has a very fond and romantic view of FRANK and doesn't "get" a book that looks past the recording sessions and singing style. Of course, a musical history was not Anthony Summers's purpose here. I am reminded of Chuck Giancana's refrain he learned from Sam : "The right hand (fbi) doesn't know what the left hand (cia) is doing." A story from the old days: Frankie, Sammy, and Joey got in a fight. Sammy said "Frank, I am really going to kill Joey" and Sammy said "No Frank, lets just twist his arm" Sammy Davis Jr., Frank Sinatra and Joey Bishop? No, this story is about Frank Costello, Sam Giancana and Joe Kennedy.......

Thanks GH I knew AM/LASH was a program, not an individual. (people may remember that from another thread) I love the classified code terms. Robin posted those three "declassified" NSA sheets on another thread and the code word stencilled across the top appeared to be COMINTERN Now that is funny.

Remember, James, in that FRANKOLSONPROJECT website they show that there was 100,000 doses of LSD in the safe at ATSUGI AIR BASE JAPAN. I think Lee's attempts at suicide in the Marines (and in Minsk) are exactly the type of "foreshadowing" that MK/ULTRA and the false defector program used. A communist, who attempted suicide, but worked closely with David Ferrie and other shadowy sponsors? He could be useful............

Thanks for the PROUTY to GARRISON letter. It captures the strengths and weaknesses of Fletcher Prouty. He was often loose with the facts, but his hunches and suspicions shed light on Dallas. He obviously hated Lansdale, and thought Lansdale had gotten him (Prouty) out of the country for the Dallas ambush. Prouty was also a firm believer in the flechette dart to the throat being the first shot to hit Kennedy, and paralyze him for the barrage, and he thought UNBRELLA MAN fired the dart through a CIA designed umbrella. With so much classified, and so many questions unanswered, I tend to take FLETCHER PROUTY"s opinions VERY seriously. James' new picture of Lansdale shows that body english and stance that PROUTY saw, and he positively identified Lansdale as the man in the frame with the TRAMPS. Read Chauncey Holt's account. Fake IDs, a radio, a tense team of three men hiding in a boxcar and escorted across the Plaza, no arrrest records, ..... They were operational, and they were escorted to safety..........

So what is the word on Pash? The photo is a pretty good match. (but it just could be Mr. William S. Burroughs )

Great to hear from you, hang in there baby!

Thanks, I think.........

The fraudulent DEMOCRATS FOR NIXON was a false front group of Nixon campaign men. This was back in the Governor's race in California in 1962. At that time there was no legitimate DEMOCRATS FOR NIXON. Later, in 1972, there was one, but in 1962 it was a false front. Haldemen narrowly escaped mail fraud charges, as there were no DEMOCRATS FOR NIXON. I read this in Frank Mankiewicz's book

This just shows a fluid and disturbing question existed between the prerogatives of the civilian and military executives at the time of Kennedy's murder.

Dirty Business Down in Dallas All this shows me a co-ordinated JOINT OPERATION with the witting co-operation of the MILITARY INTELLIGENCE and NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY. What possible other conclusion can we draw from this state of affairs?

Gratz is probably only a self appointed ringer, but with a JFK line that they love down at Langley, I mean Denver....

It looks to me like it was at Love Field. The motorcade seems to be just about to leave the airport. If not, there were certainly only a few hard lefts like this on the route and it should be easy to figure. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good call, that open space of cement looks more like the airfield than a city street.

I am suprised Ron, who I respect very much, believes them to be the "late named" tramps, Doyle, etc. I, like many others, believed AJ Webeman and others years ago who pinned one Identity on Howard Hunt, and a second on Frank Sturgis. I now believe it was Chauncey Holt, I was swayed be Wim's online case for Holt. (however this doesn't extend to the other tramps or Jimmy Files) Holt's story hangs together and he is strongly resembling the photo. I have seen CHARLES HARRELSON on video confronted with the photo and confess to being in the photo, and he strongly resembled the photo. Charles ROGERS is the type of person we would suspect in this covert domestic joint (deniable) operation in Dallas, but he is not "Frenchy" I suspect Frenchy was an OAS assassin, paratrooper in South East Asia for the French and was shuttled out of the country by a pilot with a similar background as Tosh Plumlee or David Ferrie. With radios, Identification and a two hour wait out in a boxcar, this may have been the fatal "forward shot" team, working behind the wall, fence or underpass structure. Frenchy may have not lived long enough to be exposed like Harrelson and Holt.

Mark and Jim and Members; Have you all read "The Puzzle Palace" by James Bamford? He also wrote "Pretext for War" about 9/11 and the current US/Iraq war. That was my main source on the role of the NSA in preventing assassinations. The NSA was a fully mobilized "black bag" and covert ops agency, and its status as a military agency is still debated. My point is, again, that quite a bit of covert domestic joint agency operations had little or nothing to do with the CIA itself. People forget that, but with Oswald, Edwin Walker and the Mannlicher Carcano case of 1963, I say the CIA was a minor player........the ONI springs to mind, because of JFK's background, Oswald's background and the conservatism of the "admiralty" Who was in a position to judge a president's loyalty, his clearance or his capacity? Not really the CIA, that type of executive clearance is something that would emerge from JCS or Betheda Hospital and the Secretary of the Navy or Treasury, based on NSA originating information. Compared to the NSA, JCS and MI agencies, the FBI and CIA are just window dressings ....... This post has been edited by Shanet Clark: May 15 2005, 11:50 PM -------------------- Shanet "Compared to the NSA, JCS and MI agencies, the FBI and CIA are just window dressings" Couldn't agree more. Remember that in the 50's NSA stood for No Such Agency. I might add that before the US entry into WWII John J. McCloy was sent by the Secretary of War, with the blessing of the President, to study the British Intelligence system. He then established and oversaw the OSS, although Donavan is given the credit. He was the lead agent in keeping portions of the Army Intelligence Agencies alive when Truman ordered the OSS disolved. McCloy wrote the plan and authorized the orders that led to the development of the CIA and the NSC. He was around for the beginning of NSA, NATO and the regeneration of Germany. It is my belief that McCloy is the one man who was tasked with keeping all the "agencies" together just as the British have a single person they designate as "C" for CHIEF over all intelligence organizations. Jim Root Shanet Clark Yesterday, 08:20 PM Post #27 Super Member Group: Members Posts: 1007 Joined: 13-October 04 From: Atlanta, Dekalb Co., Georgia, USA Member No.: 1708 So McCloy is the executive, in the executive sanction model. Max Taylor was the Military Executive, CD Dillon the Treasury Secret Service Executive...it just takes a few. The Twenty Fifth Amendment makes it clear that a small counsel of Presidential Advisors had the ability to remove a President. Taylor, Dulles, McCloy, McCone, these were the executives of the day, who saw themselves as the sovereign force......... THANKS TO ALL MEMBERS STUDENTS AND INTERNATIONAL OBSERVERS

While some maintain the Harper fragment was occipital, I tend to agree with the likes of Dr. Angel and Joseph Riley that it was parietal, although an inch or more more forward on the head than in Angel's drawing. Dr. Mantik agrees that it could be parietal but that the lead smudge on the OUTSIDE of the skull indicates it was the location of an entrance; he concludes from this that it must be occipital. Well, this blew my mind because the location on the parietal bone that would have been an entrance if the Harper fragment was indeed parietal, is eEXACTLY where I placed the entrance in my analysis of the x-rays and bullet trajectories. I hope to convince a lot of people of this in the near future. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So you think it is a temple bone from the right side of the head with an entry wound above the right ear's temple? It should be fairly easy for a neurologist or anthropologist to strictly locate the origin of the bone. I keep going back to John Ligget and the BLOB obscuring the parietal area. The X rays are useless, and Mantik pretty well disposes of them...... Where did this bone come from? It must explain a ballistics trajectory if properly understood !!

Tim, Sorry I turned sharply on you, but these are still very hot issues with me. The interference wasn't limited to Donald Segretti, although he became a parody example of NIXON's approach to political campaigning. Murray Chotiner and Bob Haldeman were famous for getting swept along by each other, Nixon, Colson or whoever was the most ruthless one at the time. For one example, did you know that Haldeman sent out 400,000 pieces of mail illegally identified as DEMOCRATS FOR NIXON (a non existent group)? The MOCKINGBIRD PROGRAM, CO-INTEL PRO, Segretti's dirty tricks squad, the systematic interference with campus and left wing newspapers, the infiltration and introduction of AGENT PROVOCATEURS into the campus politics.... These are related subjects, related programs, and here is where we find (historically now) KARL ROVE & YOU !

He's the executive, in the executive sanction model. Max Taylor was the Military Executive, CD Dillon the Treasury Secret Service Executive...it just takes a few. The Twentieth Amendment makes it clear that a small counsel of Presidential Advisors had the ability to remove a President. Taylor, Dulles, McCloy, McCone, these were the executives of the day, who saw themselves as the sovereign force.........

Lloyd Cutler, the Democratic advisor to President Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, died in Washington Sunday May 8th, 2005. A shadowy eminent grise, the gray suited attorney represented the Pharmaceutical Manufacturers, I.B.M., banks, television networks and lobbied the U.S. government for the most powerful corporate interests as paartner of WILMER, CUTLER and PICKERING, a law firm he founded in 1962. When Bernard Nussbaum, Bill Clinton's counsel, quit in 1994, Cutler served a special four month stint as White House counsel, a position he had also held under JIMMY CARTER. With 500 lobbyists and attorneys in his firm, Cutler served as lobbyist, Democratic figurehead and Presidential advisor, in a similar fashion to his contemporary Clark Clifford. He is also associated in his "New York Times" Obituary with EDWARD BENNETT WILLIAMS, KATHERINE GRAHAM, PAMELA HARRIMAN, PAUL WARNKE and CYRUS VANCE. He was married to the widow of syndicated columnist Joseph Kraft, and is survived by Polly Craft Cutler. He defended ROBERT BORK for Attorney General. He won an $8,000,000 settlement with France for GREENPEACE, after France blew up the RAINBOW WARRIOR as the Greenpeace vessel protested French nuclear testing in the Pacific. By representing the Pharmaceutical Industry in the 1950's he worked to extend and harden patent protection times and exclusivity. This brought him into the nexus of Pharmaceutical Corporate governing, a tradition known to Bush family observers. Eli Lilly, Pfizer and the German cartel chemical manufacturers benefitted from the efforts of Lloyd Cutler to gain governmental benefits for drug manufacturers. His efforts also extended the ABC/CBS/NBC structure of national broadcast television. (Boyden Grey, Mitch Daniels and GHW Bush still work in this revolving door environment of pharmaceutical lobbying/ federal governing) A graduate of Yale University, Lloyd Cutler was profoundly impressed by his father's law partner, Fiorello La Guardia. In the Carter Library Presidential Archives, their are boxes marked CIA RE-ORGANIZATION LLOYD CUTLER. However, beyond the 1978 executive order I reported on in the SEMINARS thread, there was no re-organization of the structural aspects of American Intelligence. From my reading of the Carter WHite House Counsel boxes of LLoyd Cutler marked CIA RE-CHARTER, I can say that Mr. Cutler absorbed the various oversight and reform concepts and returned from COngress, the Agencies and his own consultations with the report to Carter and Mondale that no further legislative regulation of the INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES would be forthcoming. As I stated in my Seminar Paper, I believe that Lloyd Cutler also advised BILL CLINTON against any systematic reform of the Intelligence structure; he certainly halted the process during the final two years of the Carter Administration. WHile he lived, this man may have known more than any man alive about German/ US corporate entanglements in the pharmaceutical and chemical industry after World War Two, and he was obviously in a position to know the true nature of the Television, Radio, Film and News domestic propagansda and intelligence programs known now as OPERATION MOCKINGBIRD. A close associate of Henry Kissinger, the attorney is eulogized by the writer S.Taylor as a man with "deep throaty voice, carefully chosen words, measured pace, gravitas, wisdom, courtliness, the whole bit. Lloyd was born an eminence grise, in that last generations of people who got to be grown-ups." With that sort of despised romantic vomit in the MSM I thought I would file a critical piece on the lobbyist, attorney and WH counsel, Lloyd Cutler. You see, now, some other people get to be "grown-ups" and bring a voice to the table, not just YALE MOCKINGBIRD PHARMACEUTICAL ATTORNEYS WHO DERAIL INTELLIGENCE REFORM ....... a particularly poor example of a democrat, i say

This thread ties in with the disposition of the Cabinet that day, ie. on a plane to Asia.

Mark and Jim and Members; Have you all read "The Puzzle Palace" by James Bamford? He also wrote "Pretext for War" about 9/11 and the current US/Iraq war. That was my main source on the role of the NSA in preventing assassinations. The NSA was a fully mobilized "black bag" and covert ops agency, and its status as a military agency is still debated. My point is, again, that quite a bit of covert domestic joint agency operations had little or nothing to do with the CIA itself. People forget that, but with Oswald, Edwin Walker and the Mannlicher Carcano case of 1963, I say the CIA was a minor player........the ONI springs to mind, because of JFK's background, Oswald's background and the conservatism of the "admiralty" Who was in a position to judge a president's loyalty, his clearance or his capacity? Not really the CIA, that type of executive clearance is something that would emerge from JCS or Betheda Hospital and the Secretary of the Navy or Treasury, based on NSA originating information. Compared to the NSA, JCS and MI agencies, the FBI and CIA are just window dressings .......

John and Andy; I want to thank the members, (I became a SUPER MEMBER today for my 1000th post). More importantly; nearly one hundred people have read my recent Social Sciences post on Dr. Raymond Dart, and twenty have read it in just the past day. This is firm evidence that the JFK assassination/government oversight group and the academic international group are coming together and forming a community. When I joined last year the academic posts were often unread, but the dynamic of the group synthesis has changed, and grown, thanks to both the academics and the JFK people ... Thank you all very much.....

Is there any medical consensus on exactly what part of the body this came from? Was it temporal, parietal or occipital? Is the provenance of the HARPER FRAGMENT convincing? Their is a very regular arc along one edge. Thanks Shanet

retracted, I should have said "Tim Gratz is on record as somehow mixed up with the artie bremer colson WH segretti operation" Did you ever see, meet, observe or have information about Bremer before he shot George Wallace? You have no idea what this exposure has done to your cogency. ///////////

The Kings of Peru were the great Incaas Known throughout the world as great drinkas They Lolled in the Sun Had Barrels of Fun But their Subjects thought they were stinkas