Robin Unger

Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said "The President has been shot" and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute. Mr. BALL - You went out there and then what did you do? Mr. SHELLEY - Well, officers started running down to the railroad yards and Billy and I walked down that way. Mr. BALL - How did you get down that way; what course did you take? Mr. SHELLEY - We walked down the middle of the little street. Mr. BALL - The dead-end street? Mr. SHELLEY - Yes. Mr. BALL - Did you see Truly, Mr. Truly and an officer go into the building? Mr. SHELLEY - Yeah, we saw them right at the front of the building while we were on the island.

Good question Bob Where was Shelley after he came back from the tracks. ? What time did Lovelady go up to the 6th floor after he came back from the tracks ? at 12:50PM lovelady was standing in front of the Doorway.

The Testimonies are contradictory to one another, that is part of the problem.

Ok that's a fair comment But as yet i have not seen any photographic evidence showing that Lovelady and Shelley are still on the steps as Baker approaches. or Are you saying that they have already left for the rail tracks ?

That's the point, during the Baker run Lovelady and Shelly are standing over near the concrete island ?

That's NOT Couch, it's Darnell

I'm NOT upset Bob, i am just trying to work through the problem in a methodical and serious way

If the running woman is NOT Gloria, how was it possible for Gloria to have run from her position watching the motorcade to the TSBD doorway, and then to have had a conversation with Lovelady and Shelley before they leave the steps, and before Officer Baker starts to run from his parked motorcycle.

The Couch film doesn't even show the TSBD doorway ?

it's your assertion that the frame shows Lovelady bending over NOT mine. the burden of proof is on you, NOT me

please post the relevant Couch frame ? http://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/thumbnails.php?album=166

Bob If the running woman is Gloria, then they could not have been on the steps during the encounter because Shelley and Lovelady are near the concrete island as she runs past them ?

It is suspect that when i produce the clearest version of the frame you then say that the " Black object " what ever that is ( is hidden )

the fritz notes "out with Bill Shelley in front" comment most likely does not refer to the assassination Timeline but instead actually refers to the Timeline just prior to Lovelady going home. Crop from the Bookhout report http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0322a.htm

Pinned posts without a general agreement, just pet theories

Bob can you post the image where you say you see Lovelady bending over on the steps ?

Yes, Lovelady and Shelley Testimonies, and i closely studied the Couch and Darnell frames

I looked at Darnell and Couch films and read the Testimonies. I see it this way. Lovelady and Shelley leave the steps and start walking diagonally across the the concrete island, as they almost get there Gloria Calvery and Baker reach their position as Gloria is running passed them crying she say's the president was shot and keeps running. Lovelady said in his Testimony that someone yelled out, and then he turned around from his position near the concrete island, and saw Baker and Truly enter the TSBD Lovelady and Shelley then proceeded to walk down to the railway tracks and returned a while later and entered the TSBD via the back entrance at 12:50PM we see Lovelady in front of the steps in the Hughes and Martin films. at 2:00 PM we see Lovelady and Oswald in the DPD

The Fuzzy Prayer Man image proves nothing, it just leads to wild speculation

Enough with the kooky theories Sandy, are you purposely trying to disrupt this thread. ? are you an ALTERATIONIST, are you one of the kooks who believes the photos and films were altered. ? Like i said, the red shirt man doesn't have anything in his hand.

I stated on Facebook yesterday that i do NOT believe that prayer man is Oswald. I was then immediately asked if i had read Stan Danes book, as if it is the Holy Grail of Prayer Man Research. I was there when Sean Murphy first started his Prayer man thread, i read every post he made, my conclusion, Oswald is NOT standing on the top landing of the TSBD doorway. Until i see clearer, higher resolution Darnell frames, no amount of speculation will convince me that Prayer Man is Oswald.

Was F. Lee Mudd the man in red on the steps? - Google Groups https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.assassination.jfk/pS2cG5xF4EM

The only one i know of who has been positively identified on the steps is Emmett Hudson he was in his 50's and was the grounds keeper. VOLUNTARY STATEMENT. Not Under Arrest Form No. 86 SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22nd day of November A.D. 1963 personally appeared Emmett Joseph Hudson, Address 107 South Bishop, Dallas, Texas Age 56 , Phone No. WH 2-2008 Deposes and says: I am presently employed by the City of Dallas, Texas in the Park Department. I have been so employed for the past 6 years. My position is to take care of the property on the West side of Houston Street between Houston Street and the Tripple [sic] Underpass. I also take care of the fountain in front of the Union Terminal. This day a was sitting on the front steps of the sloping area and about half way down the steps. There was another man sitting there with me. He was sitting on my left and we were both facing the street with our backs to the railroad yards and the brick building. At the same time the President's car was directly in front of us, I heard a shot and I saw the President fall over in the seat. I do not know who this other man was that was sitting beside me. In our conversation he talked about having a hard time finding a place to park. He also talked about working somewhere over on Industrial Blvd. This man said Lay down and we did. I definately [sic] heard 3 shots. The shots that I heard definately [sic] came from behind and above me. When I laid down on the ground I laid on my right side and my view was still toward the street where the President's car had passed. I did look around but I did not see any firearms at all. This shot sounded to me like a high powered rifle. /s/ Emmett J. Hudson Subscribed and sworn to before me on this the 22nd day of Nov A. D. 1963 /s/ C. M. Jones Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas Bond 4crop

Red shirt man didn't pull out anything. New stabilization