Mark Stapleton

Tim, Finally, you've revealed your agenda.That piece is just a crude argument in support of a holy war, probably to fulfil a biblical prophesy. Like Islam, Christianity has a small minority of hardline fundamentalists advocating holy war. That's you, Tim.

Tim and Gerry, You really should read these letters of resignation carefully, especially Kiesling's: "Is the Russia of the late Romanovs really our model, a selfish, supersticious empire thrashing towards self destruction in the name of a doomed status quo? With respect, you guys need to realise that things have changed since the fifties and sixties.

LOL. Robert, you also don't possess the most important characteristic necessary for the job--you must be a loyal apologist for your corporate masters.

It's probably true that Saddam poked his tongue out at America at a time when America was in deep shock over 9/11 and not in the mood to be ridiculed. While Hussien's provocations were a foolish error for which he and his murderous cohorts paid dearly, he prompted the Bush Administration into a much larger and more costly one. How naive was the Administration to think it could establish an American style democracy in a country with such a vastly different culture to their own. They were convinced that the swift defeat of Saddam would result in a wave of business opportunities in a nation whose grateful people would embrace the US as their liberators from oppression. American construction, engineering, manufacturing, banking and finance companies were lining up to begin operations in this oil rich honeypot. The sudden appearance of suicide bombers abrupty ended any such plans. From this point the whole plan unravelled. The occupation has resulted in massive numbers of Iraqis willing to volunteer as suicide bombers. Companies can't set up operations in a country where they are the target of suicide bombers because the staff just won't go. How could Bush and his backers have failed to anticipate such a problem? Kennedy would have foreseen it because, unlike Bush, he understood the cultural differences which exist between countries. He travelled extensively before becoming President. Bush didn't. He served his country in foreign theatres of war. Bush disappeared. He read widely and was empathic towards nations which were emerging from colonialism. Bush didn't and isn't. Kennedy would never have considered such a stupid and dangerous foreign adventure. Another dubious dividend is that terrorists have now discovered the effectiveness of suicide bombers in driving off American business interests not just from their own country but in all foreign countries where these interests operate. They are now threatening US interests in Europe and elsewhere. If this materialises, against whom does Bush intend to retaliate? Venezuela perhaps?

In defence of Garrison, they might have been referring to a Brazilian one.

Jim, I agree with Ron and others that your research has been very productive (although I don't really see how you plucked May 29, 1963 out of the hat, except maybe for the fact it was JFK's 46th birthday). I agree with Ron in that I doubt LHO willingly and knowingly tried to kill Walker, but I agree with you that Walker was involved in the assassination. Why? Because I believe selecting Dallas as the scene of JFK's murder was no coincidence. It was possibly the only city where all the settings were perfect. Civic leaders like Ted Dealey and Earle Cabell hated him, the DPD leadership were lackeys of the powerful Dallas Citizens Council (and most disliked JFK anyway), the oil industry, based in Texas, hated him almost to a man and a large contingent of CIA sponsored anti-Castro forces were based in reasonably close proximity to the city. Add to this the almost indecent insistence by LBJ that Kennedy visit Dallas and his unsuccessful last minute request that Connally and Yarborough swap seats and you have, IMO, the most perfectly planned "home ground" fixture. So if it was a home ground fixture, it's almost impossible to rule out Dallas's most vociferous Kennedy hater, General Edwin Walker. The message (if only we could find proof of it) from those in Dallas to LBJ was "we'll take care of him, providing you BRING HIM HERE".

Steve, Minor point. The second Ali-Liston fight was in 1965--May 25 in Lewiston, Maine. The first fight was February 25, 1964--Miami Beach, Florida.

John, First rate presentation. I wonder if Teddy will ever reveal what Stockdale really told him and Bobby, instead of merely observing that he was depressed. One presentation I was very interested in, after reading the schedule you posted, was John Williams, "The conspicuously disowned presence of General Curtis LeMay at Bethesda". How did that go down? On Mafia involvement, I've always believed that while Marcello and Trafficante are often mentioned as suspects, the person who recieves little focus is Meyer Lansky. While Marcello, Trafficante, Giancana and others were rulers of their fiefdoms, the person who had more influence at a national and international level was Meyer. Still only 61 at the time of the assassination, if the underworld was involved I find it hard to believe Meyer Lansky wasn't a major player. Hence I agree that the term often used (i.e. the mafia) is misleading. I think "underworld influences" is more accurate.

Steve, kudos on a very good thread, considering the date. Sadly, I can't offer much, save one thing. When JFK was killed I was 6 and don't remember anything about it. But when Bobby died I had just turned 11. I wasn't very aware of politics but I remember my mother was very angry and told my father, very angrily "The Kennedy's don't owe America a bloody thing".

Tim, Who's Jim Garrison?

Lynne, Is that a recent photo of you. If so, are you doing anything this Saturday night?

Tim, All good points well made. Responses: 1. John's statement that he thinks Waldron has got it 95% is interesting given his initial skepticism. I'm keen to hear the reasons for this because, as you know, I respect his opinions. 2. I agree. Today I purchased Joan Mellen's book as well as Dick Russell's "The man who knew too much" and Dallek's recent LBJ bio (an abridgement of his two volume life of LBJ, "Lone Star Rising", 1991, and "Flawed Giant", 1998). So Lamar Waldron's book is down the list at the moment but I'll get around to it soon. 3. Gerry's comments are always interesting. His cultivated coarse yet savvy machismo style, combined with a tendency towards liberal use of the lingo peculiar to those of his calling can sometimes make understanding his message difficult for someone not expert in the anti-Castro milieu, such as myself. But this is my problem--everyone has their style. 4. I was unaware of any such deal. Are you sure this is not just speculation? 5. I believe JFK was just keeping all his options open. I believe his overriding preoccupation was getting re-elected. Apologies for spelling errors. I'm still waiting on my new glasses, I sat on the old ones. How about those optometrists? Walk in the shop and they want to fit you up with a thousand dollars worth of eyeware--multifocal lenses, titanium frames. What a racket.

Tim, Don't throw your hat in the air just yet. From my standpoint, there's still a small problem with accepting this scenario (as discussed in the Hartmann/Waldron thread) i.e. if JFK planned to overthrow Castro, wouldn't this have made the Soviets mad as a hornet, possibly prompting them to tear up the recently signed nuclear test ban treaty? Not exactly a stunning political result for a President planning to go to the people as a man with a global vision. I'm keen to know how Lamar Waldron explains this apparent incongruity. He might have a credible explanation but until then I'm not convinced.

I always knew Dallas was a city of great innovation. That taxi driver has apparently discovered an ingenious method for improving his tips. I hope Sydney cabbies don't get wind of it.

Tim, I think Dawn's right about the nitpicking. Garrison might have blundered in regard to Spiesel but it didn't really blunt the main purpose of the trial, which was to bring the assassination to the world's attention. Garrison probably realised he was a longshot so he gambled on calling Spiesel. But if what you say about Spiesal is right, then you're right about it being a blunder. Re Stone, that stuff about the Christchurch newspaper is a minor point, really. You can't argue that this undermines the movie's theme that there was a conspiracy, with so many other incriminating circumstances surrounding the case. You're not Clarence Darrow, you know. I'm picking up the Mellen book today. I'm keen to see what all the fuss is about.

John, Dawn, Tim et al, I'm envious, especially as it's shaping up as a bumper conference. John, thanks for the updates--much appreciated. Three quick questions What was Lamar Waldron's topic? Do they now have guided tours of the entire range of assassination related sites, including the Tippet murder scene, Oswald's boarding house etc.? and Did Vince Palamara attend ? Tim, interesting post. If I visit Dallas again, I'll definately check out that and about a hundred other things I didn't look at when I was there. Of course, I knew much less about the assassination then. BTW, is there a memorial or plaque at 10th and Patten? p.s good luck and best wishes to all the organisers and attendees.

The General and Special Theories, as well as the Unified Theory, must always be qualified by the Uncertainty Principle. Tim Good point. Although Einstein didn't like Heisenberg's principle, he couldn't disprove it.

Mark, I don't think your brother's friend was that far off the mark. The Cold War was very good for the defence and aerospace industries and JFK's attempts to tone down the Cold War rhetoric were probably viewed by them as a strategy which could spell economic disaster for their sector, as Government contracts were their main source of revenue. Ron, Extrapolating your post, what about a grand unification theory encompassing JFK, RFK, MLK, Chappaquiddick and all the unexplained deaths? The common denominator is the US Government and its unwillingness to set the record straight.

Steve, your topics on JTR has inspired me to do a bit of dabbling in the case, nothing to contribute (I've mostly been fiddling with the letters to do image analysis, etc - a good source would be helpful), but to jump in before Tim! Throwing all caution to the wind and not meaning to detract from the serious side of the topic but having fun with some coincidences: The guy who supposedly vanished to the US> At the time of the Great Exhibition in Chicago (Crystal palace:Ruby,White City:KKK) there was a club around people fascinated by the whitechapel murders. At the same time there was a Texan in town who appears to have been inspired by ole Jack (Jack, Jackie). He built a 3 story murder house where he, in secret chambers and passageways, disposed of ladies who came to Chicago seeking fortune. His assumed name? :: Harry D. Holmes!!!* ( connection to Post Office? he wrote letters But serioulsly. The DNA thingy could prove most interesting. (BTW I think one of the centuries old 'bogmen' in Denmark with a rope around his neck has been matched with a report of a taxman disappearing while visiting a village near where the body was found.) EDIT:: * must have HD on the brain, I mean HH in the ripper instance. The guys name was H.H. Holmes, aka D.W. Mudget. Try 'The Devil and the White City' for a great read about this extraordinary madman. Who was far too organized and ghoulish to be JTR. Holmes sold the skeletons of many of his victims to medical schools! The apartment building in Lawndale that he built was a death factory. These methods are so different from JTW that I really doubt that it could be the same personality. Besides, Holmes earlier history is known. Now that guy Tumblety (?) who ended up in St. Louis, he fits the profile for JTW real well. Norman, If and it's a big if, those DNA experts obtain a DNA fingerprint from the saliva on the envelopes, Tumblety's descendants will be among those contacted. He's my second pick after Jacob Levy.

John, Welcome to the Jack the Ripper case. As you can see, Steve's an avid Ripperologist and can help you with any queries. Plenty of other experts here, too. Steve, I only have what's in Casebook but I can post it. Might just wait to see what Professor Findlay comes up with. It might make us all redundant.

I fell in love with Israel during a visit there in 1975 and never questioned U.S. support for that country until 2000, when Sharon was elected and began overtly provoking trouble. Since then it's all been downhill. "Remember the Liberty." Nobody does, Ron. That's the problem. One of LBJ's best coverups, IMO. Much better than his JFK job. Understandable, LBJ was an old hand by 1967. Back to the thread.........

Adam, I live in Roselands, which is between Lakemba and Wiley Park, and I heard those choppers hovering around on Monday night. Looking forward with interest to the details of this plan emerging. I'm hearing the cops acted on a tip from a chemicals manufacturer. A fertilizer bomb may have been their intention.

BTW Steve, has this apparent breakthrough technique in DNA research been mentioned in any of the Ripper publications? I recall reading about the use of DNA fingerprinting, but it was given little chance of solving the case because of it's apparent limitations.

Steve, Er..Apologies about that. I couldn't find anything about him (except the stuff in Casebook) so I dropped off it. I strongly suspect its a conspiracy by historians to prevent me from solving the case.

I would rate the chances of closure at 15%. If this case is finally solved it would probably be the world record for time taken to solve a crime--hopefully the JFK case won't break that record.