John Dolva

I don't know if we're on the same wavelength here but craving is a strong experience in just about everyones life, even if it's craving to not feel aversion or indeed a craving for it. For those on a path of self awareness it can be seen as a flag for paying attention and this keeps it within every persons self and given that it still gets back to what each individual chooses to believe.

Why can't the CIA be under satanic influence? What was the apple? Manna? Water to wine? Krishna is the God of pot. Lennon said he had taken 1000 trips. I doubt there were many people in the scene who hadn't taken some mind altering drug. Throughout history mind altering drugs in so many cultures has been a way to a ''dreaming''. Artists, whether Poe or Dali or whoever through history have used something, laudanum, absinthe etc etc etc and they create with that, however there are clear indications of a biological reason. Again, isn't it all about what one believes?

What do you mean? I mean exactly what I said. I Like King, but I have so many books to read and am reading that I have no idea when I'll (if ever) get around to that one, so a description, without the last line, which I think is often important in Kings novels, so by, or if I get around to it I probalby only have a vague memory of it, besides there are some novels of his I'll happily read many times over the years.

I hope you'll post as suggested, just leave out the last line, please?

''Entertaining in the white house'' (Marie Smith) is a mix of recipes menus and descriptions of entertaining in the White House from the first president through to Nixon, very interesting read, an odd little book, : not since... been been the scene for such brilliant entertaining as was done by ... Jackie - and not since ... had more serious thought been given to ... standards ... . Then comes descriptions of the various events and the menus, hows and whys. It goes on to Johnson and it becomes obvious that Jackie became the new Benchmark.

Good question, Will. I don;t know. .... Ok first he hungered and then saw the figtree and went to it and found it without fruit ''if not leaves only'' which I can't interpret (others have though and I could repost them here but an Ixquick search will have : http://interlinearbi...tthew/21-19.htm where you can click back and fourth in the chapter and read the various bibles translations. Also there are lots of links to persons offering interpretation (on Ixqick search page (key words Jesus move mountain)), then kai καὶ And exēranthē ἐξηράνθη dried up parachrēma παραχρῆμα immediately ē ἡ the sukē συκῆ . fig tree This is to be believed, it's just as important as the mountain. The disciples marveled etc.. I think a read through the entire chapter and backing off yet and look at other gospels and look everything in context. is necessary. edit add Ok I've pondered it a bit. This is a description by a disciple who came up to Jesus by the fig tree after the description of what he saw Jesus see. I wonder if it then a deflection by Jesus to educate His followers about the primary importance of faith? ______ I don't know if a craving for money is the path to divinity.

Is there something like (3d) that from the asteroids perspective? Obviously the path can't be in the same plane as the moon around earth plane?

Well, it's a ball and it's kicked by feet. (just checking the MSM before going to bed) World Cup - Wilkinson: World Cup flop down to 'joke' balls Tue, 08 Nov 11:29:00 2011 Jonny Wilkinson has lashed out at the balls used during the Rugby World Cup, branding them a "joke" and blasting organisers as "horribly unprofessional". England went out of the tournament at the quarter-final stage, with Wilkinson's kicking - he landed just half of his shots on goal during the tournament - a significant contributing factor both in England's close-run wins over Argentina and Scotland and their eventual defeat by France. "I'm sick to my stomach of thinking about how hard I've practised kicking over all those years and what little good it has done me at such an important time," the England fly-half has written in his new autobiography. "It angers me. "The problem is that when you feel like you're smashing it and the feedback is telling you that everything is great, yet the ball is swinging both ways and missing one way and then the other, you're left with a very difficult situation. From then on it's a joke. "My feeling is that it's just horribly unprofessional and an extremely bitter pill to swallow that, at the biggest tournament in the sport, we're having to deal with this." A spokesman for Gilbert, the ball manufacturer, denied that there was a problem and insisted that the balls had been tested extensively - including by Wilkinson - before being used in matches. "I'm not going to get into a war of words with Jonny, but I will defend our World Cup ball to the hilt," Gilbert's Andy Challis told the Telegraph, insisting that every ball used had been tested by former England star Paul Grayson. "It was extensively used last season in the November internationals and Six Nations and Jonny was given a chance to test it personally more than a year ago. We couldn't have done more and many kickers in New Zealand seemed to thrive using the same ball." But Wilkinson had been adamant that the balls were anything but consistent. "Again and again I'm hitting the same kick every time but it's non-match ball straight through the middle, match ball to the right. "The organisers claim that all the balls are the same, but they're not. If they were they wouldn't be doing this." Wilkinson also defended the actions of coaches Dave Alred and Paul Stridgeon, who were censured by tournament organisers for switching the balls that Wilkinson was using to attempt conversions during the match against Romania. "It's not exactly surprising that I wouldn't want a ball that flies miles from where it's supposed to," he said. Wilkinson's complaints were derided during the tournament but several other kickers - including Welsh star James Hook and Scotland's usually metronomic Chris Paterson - also suffered uncharacteristic problems with their kicking and recorded success rates far below their usual average. And one analyst, former All Black Matthew Cooper, backed Wilkinson's claims that something strange was going on. "A player like him, who is the world's best, struggling, suggests there is some rationale behind it," Cooper, now a TV analyst, told the New Zealand Herald. "I was concerned about the balls mid-flight and seeing where they were going. The ball seemed to lose its trajectory or its flight and that suggests to me that once the momentum had gone out of the kick it tended to have a bit of drift in the ball." Eurosport --------- This is interesting. A similar thing could be seen in the German World Cup (football, soccer) when the new ball was introduced and it seemed the shape of the shoe matters. The drift happens at a particular speed during the balls travel and is dependent on spin.

I was blown away by Chris' gif in shooter. It seems to me to explain or confirm suggestions I pondered on in this topic re how to align frames and how to understand and deal with problems that arise.

Will, I'm still trying to understand where you are coming from. There's a lot I don't get because I don't think that like that tho much of my life has been spent knowing people who believe all sorts of things that more conservative Christians would call wicca or new age and I've always been tainted by this angst ridden Lutheran Rationalism. Still I had to live with them and accept that there were thnigs that people believe in that to me are Peculiar. Even today a number of my closest friends believe some pretty interesting things. somehow it doesn't matter. We still have fun. Maybe because of just that :"It doesn't matter". Who gives a s..t? Our friendships are so much more important. Anyway. Ok you have considered that (past exchange) and I take it you reject the suggestion as being valid? Also, I still don't , for some reason, understand where this supernatural influence manifests itself. I wonder, exactly in what way does it influence and what does it influence? Does it influence?

Yes, the guy (an actor in a play in freo that Eddington was in) who invited me spoke very highly of him. He underwent a dignified struggle, with much of the world unaware of it at the time . And, yes imo there are many reasons for that parallel.

LOL, Thank you, John. Well perhaps..I did have an opportunity to meet the star once but I knew he was seriously ill and I felt like not burdening him in any way so I declined the invitation so I suppose there's (almost) always a conciliatory element. I think the year 1980 is very significant because Latin America was boiling with the Sandinistas winning in Nicaragua and the Contras (Raygonzos ''freedom fighters'') preparing for an all out assault.

Marley youth in the groove

Will, can you consider the possibility that the supernatural element you propose is an esoteric description of events involving artists and therefore the esoteric with the supernatural redundant and this sort of analysis is to a believer of it never refutable and in fact a result of an inner dissonance?

Jim, could one, not forgetting Ridenhour kicking the whole thing off, see Hersh as breaking it nationally and in so doing have helped to bring out the story to where it is today? I read a tale about him re-visiting My Lai and finding a memorial that shook him the most as the images were mostly high quality color and B/W primts of photos taken by him Of course the Vietnamese knew in detail what happened from day one and it was just one of many cleansing exercises.. I think Op Phoenix as a whole was one of the most sordid operations in modern warfare, but one must never forget that it had a much earlier genesis including that in operation In Vietnam during Kennedy's presidency. So, was Hersh as guilty as the many who could have reported but didn't, for whatever reason, over the many preceding years

I wanted to use this topic heading, I could have used architecture I suppose but that would be running away from the fact that the term is not original and perhaps is best known as a term from proty. In finding it I found that it does indeed in my way of reading it has relevance so I'll stick with anatomy AND post the speech here. http://www.prouty.org Fletcher Prouty Commentary - February Anatomy Of An Assassination (Transcript of speech from the 1970's) This subject which I am going to get into, I might call the anatomy of assassination, or the politics of assassination. Assassination is big business, in fact assassination is the business of big business. I've written quite a bit on this subject in various magazines and for those of you who have managed to get past some of the pictures that occur in some of those magazines, you'll know that in the November issue of Genesis I wrote on the subject of the Kennedy assassination. Just last month, March issue of Genesis I wrote about international assassination. I have to write five months ahead of time, I have an article completed and in the mail 24th of March, on assassinations in which I talked about the possibility of further assassinations in the Middle East. As I went to the Post Office on the 25th with a newspaper under my arm about the assassination of King Faisal, I had the intention of taking the article home and bringing it up to date. You see it's that kind of a subject.What was your first thought when you read about the assassination of King Faisal? What goes through the minds of perpetrators of assassinations. Are we again confronted with a young man who was a lone nut, who kept a diary and friends on a grassy knoll, down there in Saudi Arabia? Or was the King killed by some sort of a machine or conspiracy that had other plans for action in the Middle East? Mr. Kissinger had left the Middle East the day before. Mr. Nixon had tallied in Dallas until the morning of the assassination. So there's a theme running through these things that the King is dead, but what is the meaning then of the controls that go through these things. In this case the resumption of power in Saudi Arabia almost seemed to be a little too, even too, easy. What had really happened there? I think what had really happened there will give us a picture of what goes on in assassination, how they come about, and then we can take that kind of a picture and begin to unravel some of the others and then we might come a little closer to the mark. Technically what happened in Saudi Arabia is that the King's guard, the King's elite, was broken. Now you can keep a man alive, if you don't believe that read your history of General De Gaulle. Even in the deepest darkest days of World War II there were thousands of people who would like to have taken a shot at De Gaulle. I remember after the Cairo conference in Marraketch, Morocco, Churchill was recovering with a bout of influenza and DeGaulle came to visit him several times. You can imagine the security measures that were taken in Morocco to keep the good General alive. I was in Lima, Peru, in March of 1964 when DeGaulle came and captivated the country of Peru. Hundreds of thousands of Peruvians filled Plaza DeArmas to such an extent that they were pressing against the walls and trampling the trees and yet General De Gaulle, who is a good many inches taller than I, walked among these Peruvians that night with search lights on him in that huge arena, among hundreds of thousands of people, and no one took a shot at him because in the six months before he went to Lima the people whose business it was to keep De Gaulle alive, the guerillas, if you remember their term of endearment, had thoroughly worked over the city of Lima. They had combed every list for people in that city who might be anti-De Gaulle, and had provided them with resort hotels a long way off. They had made sure when the General came to town he would stay alive.What is it then that keeps these people alive? In every country the King would not live if there was not an elite guard. Who trains the elite guard? The Vinnell Corporation. It seems to me that there's a point to the subject that appeared just a while ago in The New York Times, the Washington Post and a great number of other papers. To the effect that there had been a contract issued with the Vinnell Corporation, and I don't have any idea what their corporate connection's are, and the Defense Department of the United States, and the fact that the Vinnell Corporation had signed this contract for the purpose of training first of all , the National Guard of Saudi Arabia, and National Guard there means more or less police, and the Kings elite guard. I wonder which team they had in mind, because when you control the elite guard of a country, when you train that guard, when you arm that guard, when you teach them the jump from an airplane at Fort Benning and in Fort Bragg and give them all kinds of weapons training, bring them down to Camp Ferry in Virginia where there's a nice little resort, that guard knows how to keep a man alive, as long as that guard agrees to keep that man alive. So I don't know whether the death of King Faisal preceded the work of the Vinnell Corporation or whether the Vinnell Corporation's contract began on the 25th of March. It is awfully important because whether those men stay alive or not is the function of their inner guard. Once you relax the guard you open up a hornets nest. A lot of people would like to control the bank accounts of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait or the rest of them. What keeps the King alive is not the election of the populous because they don't go through that there, it's simply his guard.This is a key to it and the guard of many of these countries throughout the world where there have been so many coup d'etats, - a euphemism for the work of mechanics or assassination. These guards for many, many years in my experience for more than twenty-five years, (I was in Saudi Arabia in 1943 on clandestine activities ), is the work of the Central Intelligence Agency. The people who let the contracts for the Central Intelligence Agency are called the Department of Defense. The people who do the work are called such companies such as the Vinnel Corporation or Air America, or some of these others. So you begin to see what comes about, and since I didn't come here this afternoon to really get into the assassination picture too deeply, I wanted to set a stage. So let me jump to some of the things we know about without having to dig too far under the surface.In 1953 the CIA had a problem, only this time it was in the country of Iran. Mosadeque died of lead poisoning and the Shah who was escaping to the Riviera was brought back to resume the long 2500 year line of Cyprus, King Cyrus, and now he leads the country of Iran at the pleasure of the Agency's number one man in the world today, Richard Helms, who is called Ambassador, and so as long as the guard in Iran can keep the Shah alive, he will be our man there. As long as the Shah is our man, he'll probably be alive.In Jordan, where King Hussien jets around and lives by grace of his elite guard, that guard has been trained through various corporate devices by the Central Intelligence Agency for at least twenty years. King Hussien has at about the same chances as surviving that Faisal or Hassen or the Shah have, and that is if he plays the game his guard will take care of him. These are important considerations because they are right there in the record, the thing is we in this country don't think of it that way very often. You see they don't have elections in many of these third tier countries. How do you replace somebody? How do you replace people in countries where there is not provision for election? People in power hold the power until somebody else is strong enough to take it away. That ability to take it away is a very fleeting thing sometimes as it was in the case of Trujillo or in the case of Diem. But in every case there are many people willing to move in and become heads of state and if the guard which is trained in many cases by our own CIA, part of their business. Now many people write about that or know about it but that's part of their prime business in the clandestine area. Then the men have the defense to keep them alive. Now I'll close with an example but I think it's a extremely pertinent one because it leads to what will follow me in this program. The case of Ngo Dinh Diem. . .when Diem assumed the power in Vietnam 1954. If you'll remember, his country had no antecedent it was simply a piece of real estate lying south of the seventeenth parallel. When you take over a piece of real estate like that and begin to rule, who are your police? Who is your army? Who are your generals and who are your sergeants? Where is your power? This is important, where is your power? Ed Lansdale, probably one of the best agents the Agency ever set in motion, came over from the Philippines where he had created a man named Magsaysay as President of the Philippines, pretty good job as far as that went. He brought his team with him to Saigon, I happened to be pilot on that airplane. We went into Saigon with the same what we used to call "Robin Hood technique" that if you can fool the people, you can fool the people. Diem was created by a secret police trained by special forces, the Green Berets, in those days I don't think they wore the green berets, I'm talking about 1955/1956/1957. Diem owed his existence at the time to two clever maneuvers. One was the rapid placement of a good secret police and, secondly, the purchase of an army. If you remember, there were two army's in Cholon, they were more or less mercenaries and they purchased the army. Now as long as Diem had that backing, he was in pretty good shape by the summer of 1963, a summer that we all could write about and research about a lot more, that was a very important summer. There were papers coming across my desk - at that time I was working in the office of the Joint Chiefs of Staff - papers with no "top secret" stamps on them, no "eyes only" stamps on them, no register numbers on them. That meant they were really secret, if they are really secret you don't put anything on them. Then a man would come up to me and say have you seen this? And it would say we have had enough of Diem, what are we going to do about him? Well just that idea means that it won't be long until bullets are flyingbecause, what happens in Saigon, somebody like Lou Conien is told, "hey go check out the Generals, find out which general could take over the job. General "Big" Minh or Ngyuen Khahn or Ky, or Ky not ready but Khahn or Minn might be ready, check them out." The minute you tell people that in a city like Saigon - you could do it today - the minute you tell people that, they go back to their sources of power and they say, "Hey, you know what, the United States is changing its policy." It was changing its policy. It's like you stand on a stack of bibles, Chuck Colson and Howard Hunt tried to rewrite the stack of bibles to prove that is was Kennedy that said shoot him, but nobody in Washington said shoot Diem, you don't do an assassination that way. The way people are assassinated is by taking away the power that had been created to keep them there, it's a lot easier that way. More interest to me than a genealogy of Lee Harvey Oswald and all the rest is, who said, "Lets go to Dallas Jack." I understand that Kenny O'Donnell feels real bad about it. I understand that Bobby Kennedy's said from time to time he wished he'd have put his foot down about it. Gerry Bruno, the greatest advance man in politics went there, but did Gerry Bruno pick the route? Maybe Mark can tell you. Who did, who decided let's go to Dallas? You've been to Fort Worth, you've got to go to Dallas. That's important because whoever decided that knew some things.I have worked with the Secret Service in their good work to keep presidents alive. I went to Mexico City when Eisenhower was going down there in 1956 and I'll tell you, the Secret Service knows the game, just like the guerrillas in France knew the game. They can keep the President alive. Where were they? How does it happen you can have a six story building with a lot of empty floors. They never wired or sealed the doors as their manual says they will, nor had anybody on the roof with high powered guns and with radios as their manual says they will, or had a man in Dealey Plaza to look at the man on the roof and to look at the windows as their manual says they will. If you don't drive over 44 mph, a nice figure but it works out in tests, why did they bring that car down to a crawling speed. Those are more important to me than a genealogy of Lee Harvey Oswald or anybody else on the grassy knoll.I think I'll stop there. That's what I call the anatomy of assassinations. It gets you thinking, you know. Ok, maybe Architecture is ok too as for this purpose I'll try to use [having to relearn long forgotten] Basic Flow-charting. The point is to try to create a structure without necessarily naming anyone. A bit like my XYZ suggestion in the who killed kennedy topic. For now this will do. edit add What do the different flowchart shapes mean?

Jim, I'm interested in your take on naming #12?

The CIA is a virus. Interesting they would refer to the popular novel by the anti fascist Stieg Larssen. The books actal name translates to ''Men who Hate Women''.

Tough questions, John Both I suppose. Of course (imo) when you boil everything down there's always a socio-economic rationale. People make choices and when there are multiple choices those who choose do so with a consideration of necessity. For the poor it's what can you get for what you got. It's not so different for the rich. In a capitalist economy it's all about market, supply and demand, when market saturation approaches just reinvent the market (also of course create new 'virtual markets within the physical environment. Create needs or rather wants where none existed before. I reckon a 386DX with about 5 meg is plenty, boring I suppose, but enough. So there you got a market that continually reinvents itself. Fashion, cars : bling.) I did say ''in conjunction with" [the above] re food. The process of maximising profit or survival drives the market through choice. If it's an unbridled process then choices are readily made that are fundamentally not in the interest of life in general. Hence, yes, sinister corporate forces are at work. I often try to think of what a set of universal bridles that can be applied and end up pondering morality. The bit under my name probably sums it up. Basic Human Rights before Profit.

Rebel Undergorund : MSC Oxford file

It can be, tho in conjunction with what's suggested (particularly afa drinks go) a symptom of marketing having split into a low cost and a high cost demographic and in the low cost in a world where epenses are rising most people turn to cheaper foods and that necessarily become more and more processed foods and second grade basic food. So, nutrition levels drop. Also there are ways to cheaply still hunger and boost energy levels by more sugar ( and fats ) in the blood. is A modern economic malaise which has numerous examples in degradation of health in particular demographics throughout history in many cultures.

No John. I think it is a paralysed nerve. Close to the bone.

lauren and ziggy

This might help'. Whats ICC and FCC? http://mdah.state.ms.us/arrec/digital_archives/sovcom/result.php?image=/data/sov_commission/images/png/pages/135331.png&otherstuff=99|3|0|151|3|1|1|35059|# http://mdah.state.ms.us/arrec/digital_archives/sovcom/result.php?image=/data/sov_commission/images/png/pages/135328.png&otherstuff=99|3|0|148|1|1|1|35052|# http://mdah.state.ms.us/arrec/digital_archives/sovcom/result.php?image=/data/sov_commission/images/png/pages/135330.png&otherstuff=99|3|0|151|1|1|1|35056|#

bump coz I added a post to youtube topic in ref to Oakland edit add ...and the timeliness of this post re GAGA and Bullying