Jim Phelps

Looking like some others found the vile deceptions underlying the JBS. It appears the JBS sprang up in Belmont, Mass., and appear to have gotten the Nickname of the "Belmount Brotherhood". Certainly, all in the Kennedy back yard. Plus, some really good insights on what the London based Masonic Eyes and Two-Faced Eagles are all about. Masons valued the Serpents imagery and sought designs based upon such. ========= http://watch.pair.com/belmont.html You may object: 'Look at all the great things Welch has done - he has exposed the Illuminati.' Baloney. The Illuminati was merely a branch of the Conspiracy. How can one attack the Illuminati without attacking the diabolical power behind it: organized Freemasonry? Welch has provided the most valuable service of all time to the Conspiracy. He founded an organization to neutralize millions of Americans from discovering what the true power behind the Illuminati really was. And we concede the Mason's chose an extremely clever man to do the job. Welch, with the help of the Belmont Brotherhood, plays his role very effectively. ------- Oswald Wirth would not agree at all with those two words. Wirth speaks with some authority, being a 33rd Degree Mason and an author of many books on Freemasonry, he held an eminent position with fellow Masons as an initiate of he Grand Lodge of France. In Wirth's L'deal Iniatique, he explains the great significance of an initiation into a Masonic Order: "It is a serious matter to ask for Initiation, for one has to sign a pact...it demands that the man's soul be truly committed in the act." (op.cit., de Poncins, p. 48) Wirth cites The Book of Genesis to arrive at the cardinal tenet of all Freemasonry: "The beguiling serpent, who incites us to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, symbolizes one particular instinct. He breaks away from the conservative instinct and represents both a nobler and subtler instinct, whose purpose is to make man aware of his need to rise in the scale of beings". "This secret spur is the promoter of all progress, and of all the conquests which enlarge the sphere of action both of individuals and of groups" "That explains why the Serpent, inspiring disobedience, in subordination and revolt, was held accursed by the ancient theocracies, while at the same time he was honoured among the initiated." (op.cit., de Poncins, pp. 87-88) Welch puts it a little differently. But the more it changes, the more it stays the same. For Welch calls man's need to rise to a higher scale of beings his "upward reach." As he wrote in The Blue Book: "I want to convince you as I am convinced, that even under such leadership (his, that is -- N. we have no chance (emphasis ours) unless the specific battles are fought as part of a larger and more lasting movement (like Wirth's or Pike's Grand Orient Masonry perhaps? -- N.B.) to restore once again an upward reach in the heart of man." (The Blue Book, p. 115) -------- As 33rd Degree Mason Oswald Wirth explained it: The object of the ancient mysteries was to make men like unto gods. The mystery took on more of the divine nature as it rose morally and intellectually further beyond the level of common humanity. The programme of Initiation has not changed even in our own day: the modern Mason, too, also becomes more divine, but he realizes that he can only become so if he works divinely, that is, by completing the unfulfilled task of creation. Raised above the level of man's animal nature, the Builder, by carrying out the divine plan, himself became a god, in the ancient sense of the word. (O. Wirth, Le Livre du Compagnon, p. 74 - as quoted by Vicomte Leon de Poncins, Freemasonry and the Vatican, p. 88) ========= http://www.answers.com/topic/john-birch-society A transcript of Welch's two-day presentation at the founding meeting was published as The Blue Book of the John Birch Society, and became a cornerstone of its beliefs, with each new member receiving a copy.[9} ------- Former Eisenhower cabinet member Ezra Taft Benson – a leading Mormon – spoke in favor of the John Birch Society, but in January 1963 the LDS church issued a statement distancing itself from the Society.[34] ==============

====== It'll take some digging around to turn that up. I've done some searches looking for details. I'll keep looking and see what turns up. But, I'd include the FBI's knowledge and years that lapsed since 1958 that allowed the information to spread into Govt, as they were definitely trying to drive Govt Policy. Welch was the leader and the group would be his Echo. That founding speach was all of their inspiration. Looks like DDE had buy-in and JFK didn't. JFK likely thought them a theat to Peace Making and his directions, as he learned all the schemes afoot for dragging the US into a war, trying to dupe JFK. RFK appeared to be walking the tight rope between the two factions, when he should have taken a more solid JFK peace stance earlier.

"Telling the Truth" appears to have become a little complex in the times of the late 50s and 60s as the two factions of Extreme Wealth and Socialist Agenda's fought a war for the minds of men of these days. "Telling the Truth" in these times was also about abduction of the truth of the church, as the Essene Message of Jesus tells a story that doesn't like the Royalist's agenda. Jesus and his Essene were good stewards for the environment and was a service to mankind without expectation of vast wealth in return. Even the values of Jesus and the Essene have become a casulty of this war between the Extreme Royalists and the Socialists resistance to this Oligarcic and Fascist like dominance. JFK's theme of a Rising Tide Lifts All Boats would fit the Essene and Jesus beliefs well, and the rest of his actions speak well to someone that followed those beliefs. But, JFK was killed for doing those right things and following in the footsteps of the Essene and Jesus like values. So corrupted was the Church in the US in these times that I has litterally shot Jesus and left his true values for dead. Only in these latter times has the truth begun to appear as the Soviets adopted the JFK theme of "Waging Peace", so as not to play into the Capitalist's Extremes of robbing American's Freedoms and exploitation of their money and resources to promote wars for the Royalist's Riches. In 20/20 hindsight these days, the history for the failure of the Eastern Roman Empire due to these like Factors of today tells us the days for the US are short and numbered unless we find these truth and not the propaganda games of those with greed for money, power, and control. JFK found the truths, and he was doing something about them. And "We The People" need to back our fallen Hero, JFK, fixes, or watch our country die also. A little bit better Bio on Welch and the JBS: ===== http://www1.appstate.edu/~clarkne/socm/bios/birch.htm Timeline Dec 1, 1899 It was on this date that Robert Welch, the future founder of The John Birch Society was born. Welch was born into a family that is known for its farmers and Baptist preachers. It was a time when self-reliance, moral uprightness, good manners, respect for hard work, and integrity were the standards Americans held. Welch was reared into these characteristics and never forgot them, no matter the circumstances, especially honesty/integrity. Welch always said, "most of the ills of the world would disappear if people would just start telling the truth." He was home schooled for the first part of his life - this began when he was a mere two years old. At the age of three he was capable of not only reading, but reading well. By the age of four he had memorized his multiplications, and had a firm grasp of algebra by the age of six. At seven he had a desire to study Latin and read the nine volumes of John Clark Ridpath's History of the World. I t was these writings by Ridpath that helped mold Welch into the Americanist that he became. Welch then entered high school at the unusual age of ten, followed by the University of North Carolina at age 12. Welch performed amazingly, graduating from UNC in the top third of his class at 16 years of age. Following UNC he quenched his curiosity for law, for the next two and a half years, at Harvard's Law school. Needless to say, Robert Welch was a very educated individual. 1918 It was on this date in which the world would never be the same - John Birch was born. He came from a spiritual background with both of his parents being missionaries. John was the eldest of his siblings and at an early age showed great potential to be a leader. Not only was he intellectually sharp be he also had a firm grasp of the Christian faith. It was at the age of eleven in which while speaking to his pastor said that he wished to answer the call to the ministry - specifically the mission field. Not only did he know what he was going to do with his life, but he knew where he was to go as well. After hearing about Chinese communists killing missionaries he knew all too well where he was heading. He said, "I know the big enemy is communism, but the Lord has called me. My life is in His hands, and I am not turning back." Birch later attended Mercer University and really excelled graduating with the honor of magna cum laude. Despite that fact that he had achieved excellence while in school he never forgot his dream of reaching out to China. 1939 It was now, at age 21, that John finally leaves home for China. Japan is invading China as Birch is arriving. At this point these two countries have been at war with for the past three years. After arriving in China and learning the language John was fearless in his attempt to share the gospel with the Chinese, not even a major war was going to stand in his way. Quite frequently, though, his mission was put on pause due to malaria, but because he was in such profound physical condition it never stopped him for long. Japan's attack was getting more and more ruthless, so the State Department ordered all missionaries out of China. One problem� John refused to go. John had developed countless relationships with the Chinese and was adored by many. He was finally making an impact and now was ordered to leave - no way. He was determined to some how find a way to stay. At this point the US is about to enter the war, but being a clergyman meant he was exempt from the draft. His only resort was to volunteer. He was no pacifist, and felt that if he was to continue his greater cause of delivering the message to the people of China then he was going to have to take advantage of the opportunity at hand. That opportunity being joining the US military and getting sent back over seas to China with the rest of our troops to aid the Chinese in their effort to fight off the Japanese. Birch then happens to be at the right place at the right time. He accidentally rescued General James Doolittle. From this point Birch was appointed head over General Claire Chennault's "intelligence department" - with the permission to preach whenever he had the opportunity. It was General Chennault's 14th Air Force that Birch was the intelligence for - known as the Flying Tigers. Birch was the "eyes" of the outfit. He lead downed airmen to safety. He was nothing short of brilliant, and due to his courage and unparalleled ability to lead he was promoted to Captain. Aug. 14, 1945 The war has officially ended, but communists were taking over the defeated Japanese bases and airfields. Aug. 25, 1945 In an attempt to stop the communist take-over Captain Birch and a band of eleven are sent out to claim one of the bases in Suchow, Japan. Birch and his group was stopped along the way to Suchow by a group of Chinese communists. Birch and his Chinese aide got separated from the rest of the group. After given the order to disarm Birch, his aide tried to stop them. The aide's actions got he and Birch shot in the leg as a means of stopping their revolt. From here Birch's ankles were bound and he was forced to kneel in preparation for his demise. He was shot in the back of his head - execution style - and his face has smashed with the butt's of their guns. The aide was also beaten and left for dead. The aide lived though, to tell the magnificent story of John Birch. The story of John Birch and his murder were stamped Top Secret and placed under lock and key. However, the story that was told to Birch's parents read like this, "There was a clash between Chinese Central Government forces and irregular Chinese troops and your son was struck by a stray bullet� his death was instantaneous and without pain." 1950 Robert Welch, a candy manufacture, read a speech by a politician - Senator William Knowland - that talked about the cover-up of John Birch's murder, as well as the cover-up of the idea of the US government destroying our friends in China to bring into power our enemies the Communist Chinese. It is due to this moving speech that will, in eight years from now, touch Robert Welch and inspire him to name his anti-Communist freedom organization in honor of Captain Birch - The John Birch Society. July/Aug. 1951 Welch begins to write his first major political work, May God Forgive Us, which deals with his analysis of post World War II disasters. Some of these disasters include: the loss of Eastern Europe and of China to the Communist Bloc, the widespread influence of various leftist organizations in accomplishing these victories for communism, spot-lighting government agencies that had been subverted by communist agents, and also on individuals who used their positions of power and prestige to change the direction of American policy. Welch also talks about the indifference and complacency of Americans and how that is a huge problem. The answer according to Welch is simply education. 1952 The publication of May God Forgive Us. This book began simply as a rather extensive letter Welch planned on sending to a few friends. He sent three copies out and in no time he had requests for more copies. Before all is said and done, Welch ends up publishing this letter and distributing tens of thousands of copies all over the world. Welch also expresses intense shame for his country and deep distress that, "the land of the free and home of the brave" was being undermined and used to betray innocent people as well as our foundation or Western culture: "The real trouble is callousness throughout the whole mood and the collective conscience of the American people. How can we expect either a Roosevelt or Truman to have been disturbed by the barbarous Katyn Massacre, or to have reduced for that reason their pampering appeasement and generosity to it's perpetrators? The news of a similar mass murder, of eight thousand of our own sons and brothers, as prisoners of war behind the Koreans lines, caused only a temporary ripple of indignation across the international consciousness; and we go serenely on negotiating with, and making new concessions to, the cold-blooded murders." "As we sit in our warm homes, after a happy meal with our families, and turn on our television sets or radios, it is hard for us to think of a man just like ourselves always half-starved, always half-frozen, haggard and hopeless, remember the days when he too was free, as he is brutally driven to finish up the literal exhaustion of his body in labor for the benefit of the very tyrant who has enslaved him. It is harder still to remember that there are millions of such men; or that in the past six years six hundred million of our fellow human beings have been placed under the merciless heel of this monster and the bestial control of his henchman and police." "For the pusillanimous part that we played in all this spreading horror; for our indifference to the grief of others; for our apathy to the crimes we saw and our blindness to those we should have seen; for our gullibility in the acceptance of veneered treason and our easy forgetfulness even when the veneer rubbed off; for all our witting and unwitting help to the vicious savages of the Kremlin and to their fellow ordinate savages everywhere, may God - and our fellow men -some day forgive us!" In other words, Welch is crying out to the American people asking them to recognize what is happening and to start caring about it. He also discusses the sheer dominance and control that Communism has over a nation. He finishes by asking forgiveness from and for his fellow Americans for all the indifference and complacency. Here is where Welch displays his true love for his country. Jan. 1, 1957 Welch changes his life's purpose from that of a business man to that of a "conspirator squasher". It is at this time that he devotes the majority of his time to the anti-Communist cause and ultimately his new freedom organization. Dec.1, 1958 It is now that Welch established The John Birch Society. Welch was very impressed with who John Birch was. It was said that John Birch's last words were, "It doesn't matter what happens to me. But it is of utmost importance that my country learn now whether these people are friend or foe." It was these words that struck Welch that this guy was truly sincere about coming against Communism and restoring America and the world back to "the way it use to be." Not only this but to achieve a goal great as this there must also be great sacrifice. Welch saw Birch's whole life as a sacrifice. The selflessness that Birch displayed was commendable and deserved to have his name live on. Feb. 1959 Welch and The John Birch Society release a story in Welch's American Opinion, which was already painfully obvious, that Fidel Castro was a Communist. Welch is quoted by saying, "If you have any doubt that Castro is a Communist, don't. If he is successful, time will clearly reveal that he is an agent of the Kremlin." Welch is quoted in the American Opinion saying, "the fact that Castro was, and all of his adult life had been, a vicious, lying, brutal, murdering Communist." April 1959 There was a movement by the United Nations (UN) to have all major departments stores across the country remove all their conventional Christmas decorations and replace them with decorations with the UN insignia on them. This was shaping up to be the beginning of the one-world government. But due to great letters of opposition written by people from The John Birch Society (JBS) to the heads of department stores, this movement made by the UN die out within a year. May 1959 Around the same time as the UN uproar, the JBS organized a protest, with Robert Welch as chairman, to come against the meeting of Eisenhower and Krushchev. To not allow this to occur JBS ran full-page ad's and put them in all the major newspaper in hopes that Eisenhower would get some bad press and wouldn't go to Moscow. It worked perfectly; Eisenhower called off his trip. Oct. 1959 The JBS pulled together to rally Congress to stop supplying foreign aid, especially to countries that are Communist. Because of the massive resistance to the Communist Party, they (communists) tried to have the anti-Communists groups disassembled. Their efforts were thwarted though. This was a big victory for "good guys." 1960 Because the anti-Communist organizations were having such a huge impact on Communist interaction the Communist leaders (80+ nations) met in Moscow to wage "resolute struggles against anti-Communism." Feb. 25, 1961 This enormous attack from the Communists focused on defamatory attacks against The JBS and sought to ruin their reputation and credibility. The Communists accused The JBS of being racists, anti-Semitists, fascists, Nazis, Ku Klux Klan, and more. Individuals were labeled paranoids, extremists, radicals, super-patriots, hate mongers, subversives, lunatics, and fanatics. This was anticipated by Welch, he knew that the Communists would resort to such behaviors quoted by a report saying, "(Communist Party) Members and front organizations must continually embarrass, discredit, and degrade our critics� When obstructionists become too irritating, label them as fascist or Nazi or anti-Semitic� Constantly associate those who oppose us with those names that already have a bad smell. The association will, after enough repetition, become "fact" in the public mind." Despite the fact that these smears about The JBS were terrible they did not back down, realizing that if they are being treated in such a manner must mean that they doing something right. 1963 It was at this point that The JBS felt a need to encourage the law enforcement. This effort not only encouraged the officers, but protected them as well. They formed Support Your Local Police (SYLP). This effort was started because the independence of America's local police was being threatened. There was talk of a dangerous trend of moving toward a nationalizing the police force. The JBS moved and were successful. Dec. 1970 It was this year that Welch established Resolutions for The Society. Here is the JBS stand behind: "In the Birch Society we believe that both less government, and a greater sense of responsibility by all groups and individuals, will automatically help to produce a better world. We further believe, therefore, that our actions and reactions in all circumstances should be determined by an honest answer to this basic question: "If everybody else on earth should think and act as I do, would this become a better world?" "The John Birch Society has been founded in a time and place where the people are - or were - predominantly Christian. The Society was named in honor of a man who nobly exemplifies great many Christian values. It is natural, therefore, that we should lean most heavily on the moral customs and beliefs which are associated with Christianity, and with the Judaic commandments and traditions that preceded it." "We believe that Communist movement is determined to destroy every religion, primarily by infiltration within its ranks. But that Christianity is - or was - the Communists' most automatic and implacable enemy which, from their point of view, they must destroy more surely and more completely then even temporal governments that stand in their way". Welch also included standards or "commandments" for Society members to follow as closely as they can: 1. I shall always do unto others as I would have them due unto me. It expresses what is probably the most universal of all moral exhortations. And it is a fundamental principle of Christianity. 2. I shall always be truthful. If all men (and women too, or course), from diplomats to drunken bums, would simply resolve tomorrow always to be truthful, about everything - to the best of their knowledge and understanding - and would then abide by that resolution, I believe that fully half of all the troubles and grief of the human race would disappear within six months. 3. I will neither kill nor injure another human being, except in such circumstances that it is morally justifiable to do so. By almost universal custom, those circumstances include self-defense on behalf of myself, my family, or any lawful group with legally clean hands of which I am properly a member. By equally strong tradition, they include combat engagements, while I am in the armed services of my country during war with a foreign nation, and am carrying out the orders of my superiors. 4. I shall oppose, in every practicable way that I can, the widespread use or legalization of abortion, or of euthanasia. For abortion, in plain language, is simply murder - as any honest doctor will tell you who has witnessed the struggle of the living fetus to survive. And about euthanasia being murder there can be no argument. 5. I shall always support the concept and the practice of monogamy. This is one course of conduct on which the morality of many other religions and Christian morality sharply diverge. And I am aware that much can be said for those other points of view. Also, I agree that we should be very hesitant about rushing in to try to impose our ideas of the proper relationships between men and women on the people of other civilizations. 6. I shall not steal, and I shall oppose stealing by others, whether they be individuals, groups, or governments. The right to own private property is much more the cause, than it is the result, of civilization. The desire to be secure and protected in the ownership of property has been one of the great motivating forces in causing men to surrender some of their individual freedom to governments. 7. . Most especially I shall be tolerant of the religion of others, while faithful to the beliefs and principles I shall be tolerant of other people's views of my own, with reverence always and blasphemy never as visible manifestations of my spiritual outlook. The evangelically minded devotees of any religious faith must be allowed the right and the opportunity to convert others to their beliefs, provided this is done entirely by persuasion through civilized procedures. 8. I shall be a good patriot of my country. Patriotism, meaning the love of one's own country, is still an admirable trait, as it has been for thousands of years. In the US today patriot is usually an Americanist, as distinguished from a Communist; meaning that he believes the traditional American way of life is superior to the Communist system. 9. I shall honor and cherish all of my family relationships and responsibilities. The family is the structural unit of which any civilization is built. Unless these building blocks be a good quality, with firmness of form and cohesiveness of substance, the whole social structure will gradually disintegrate and crumble into ruins. 10. I shall be self reliant, to the full extent that is consistent with, my age, my physical condition, my sex, and my family relationships. I shall teach self-reliance to our children, and encourage it in other human beings. This means that I earnestly support in practice, and advocate in theory, The John Birch Society emphasis on less government and more individual responsibility. 11. I shall always participate in charity for the needy, to full extent that my resources and my other responsibilities will permit. One reason that poverty can not be abolished is that it is a relative condition. The very poorest people in America today are well off, even by the most materialistic measures, compared with the great masses of those who live in Soviet Russia; and are actually rich in their living standards when compared with a least a hundred million of the poorest people in India. 12. I shall always do what I can to prevent cruelty, whether to human beings or to any living thing; and to be guided by a genuine compassion for all mental or physical suffering by man or beast. This does not mean that I am necessarily a vegetarian in diet. The torture of any human being for any reason - as is now so widely practiced by the beasts who call themselves Communists - is morally far worse than even cold-blooded murder. 13. I shall always recognize my responsibilities for the physical, mental, and moral training of children entrusted to my care as parent, teacher, or guardian. These responsibilities, on the part of a parent, include the giving to each child of a happy home, with adequate food, shelter, clothing, education, and entertainment. As well as love and attention and inspiration and praise and discipline which clearly are a part of their total duties. 14. I believe, emphatically and earnestly, in justice as an ideal which every social organization should strive to provide, through it's laws and customs and attitudes, for all human beings. The only deviations from justice should be on the side of mercy, in situations where mercy is dictated by humane public conscience. It should be noted, as a plain and tragic historical fact, that the human race has not known any reasonable degree or dependable certainty of justice except in fortunate areas, under unusual circumstances, for comparatively short eras. But the expectation of justice is strong enough in most human beings, especially throughout their early years, to be one of the great driving forces towards the formation of a truly civilized national life. And we should do all we can to promote the fulfillment of this divinely inspired hope and ideal. 15. I shall never accept the satanic sophistry that the end justifies the means. Nor the parallel and equally fraudulent theory presented as "situation ethics". As to the end justifying the means, who is to decide what end is noble enough to justify means of what degree of foulness? Why, the person who wishes to commit the foul deeds, of course. And who is to decide what otherwise clearly immoral act is to be reassessed as morally all right under some particular circumstances, as permitted by "situation ethics"? Why, the person in those circumstances, of course, who wants to commit the immoral act. 16. I shall not yield to any of immorality which the enemies of God and man are now trying to get widely practiced and accepted, especially by our young people, as fashionable, or "modern." And I shall do my utmost to have all of these grossly immoral practices understood, resisted, and made the object of deserved contempt by young and old alike. The most flagrant among the bestialities to which I refer are: sexual perversion; sexual promiscuity outside of marital ties; the use of narcotic drugs which seriously damage either the mind or the body (or both) of the user; the flaunting of dirty hair and dirty clothes over dirty bodies; and the stupid and sometimes criminal manifestations of rebelliousness against an inherited civilization of which these rebels do not have the slightest understanding. 17. I shall always be industrious. The devil not only finds too much mischief for idle hands to do, but increasingly in our contemporary world he causes idle minds to turn inward on themselves. There is no time and little temptation for those who work hard on their jobs and their responsibilities to engage in vandalism, arson, or similar recreations of contemptible parasites. 18. I shall try had to preserve a sense of moderation and balance with regard to all my appetites, desires, and expectations. The intensity of my urge to learn, to see, to do, to understand, and to experience all that life has to offer, will always be kept under control, to the best of my ability, by all of the common sense, sound judgment, and weighing of conflicting considerations that I can muster for the occasions when they are needed. 19. I intend always to maintain a spirit sincere humility concerning my own position and deeds and influence, in connection with all organizations, undertakings, and activities of which I am apart. This will be simple because I have so much to be humble about. It will not be because of, nor indicated by, any weakness in the face of opposition, lack of confidence in tackling any task for which I am equipped, or undue restraint in battling for what I believe to be right. My underlying, continuous, and very real humility will be more deeply rooted in my realization of how little I can possibly know and do in all the vast areas of knowledge and of need which loom so overwhelmingly over and around all intelligent men of good will and good conscience, at this stage of our western civilization. 20. I shall always try to have, and to demonstrate, the courage that can properly be expected of me, in all situations where courage is required. This promise, to myself more than others, is made in full realization of a most important fact about courage, in the kind of struggle which engages us all today. Courage on a battlefield, with the constantly clear and present danger of being killed, is an admirable and much needed trait for any patriot. 1974 TRIM (Tax Reform IMmediately) was formed. This program by The Society was developed to keep close ties on each of the 435 House of Representatives. It's been referred to as the members "report cards". It looks at how they are spending dollars in excess as well as unconstitutional spending. Due to the distribution of these so called "report cards" on the Rep's there have been a lot of premature retirements, firings, and drop outs of elections. 1975 The Society's "Get US Out!" proposal was a direct opposition to the United Nations and all they stood for. The JBS distributed huge quantities of advertisements such as bumper stickers, billboards, and petitions, in conjunction with it's books, magazines, pamphlets, film showings, lectures, and broadcasts. All of this contributed to the unpopularity of the UN. Between 1975 and 182 The JBS delivered "Get US Out!" petitions to Congress with an excess of eleven million signatures. 1984 It was here when The JBS formed an effort to stop two twin efforts at destroying the Constitution, called the Save the Constitution program. The two efforts wanting to relinquish the Constitution were: The drives for a constitutional convention (con con) and a Conference of the States (COS). Back in '83, 32 states (of the required 34) had actually been in favor of having Congress convene a constitutional convention. But The Society wasn't going to allow this to happen. They were able to stop this movement from Alabama, Florida, and Louisiana withdrew from the convention so that dropped them back to only 29 states which placed them out of reach of attaining their goal. Jan. 6, 1985 Robert Welch leaves his legacy behind to be carried on - he passes away. However, the story does not end here the battle remains "unwon" and The JBS will continue to wage war against anything that stands in the way of the American way. May 13, 1996 Even nowadays The JBS is receiving grief and being called fanatics. This smear campaign consisted of an article entitled "When Conspiracy Theory Replaces Thought", that bashed The Society's whole purpose of existence. The writer, Ira Straus, says, "Conspiracy is doing America real harm� It rationalizes thinking on every issue. It kills." April 19, 1998 This was the most recent smearing of The JBS. It was on the anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing. This article was entitled "Targeting the Government: The Road to Oklahoma City Was Paved by 40 Years of Fringe Movements". The John Birch Society was labeled "paranoia's" and accused of leading "violent anti-government movements". Near this same time an NBC special report was ran on "Conspiracy Theories" on television. They warned: "There is a group of people here in the United States who would love to see the United Nations out of New York and out of the country for that matter. These people believe that U.S. sovereignty is in some way threatened by the United Nations and that the UN or some nebulous New World order is out to take over America." Robert Welch has been labeled a criminal and his John Birch Society has been criticized in the past. Even though The Society was attacked most of their opponents are gone now and they are still here. The present President, John McManus, said, "The fact that the John Birch Society is as strong as it has ever been after 40 years is a testament to the strength of its vision and the continuing need for the services we provide. Our slogan, "Less government, more responsibility, and - with God's help - a better world, summarizes what we stand for. We are here to preserve the American system of government as created by our founding fathers and to assure the blessings of liberty to future generations of Americans." Back to Top Leadership Style I would definitely say that his leadership style would be Democratic. Within The Society they fought such a variety of things. One person wouldn't have interest in all of that. I believe there was a "ladder" and that others opinions were welcomed. In an article I read there was mention of a President, which doesn't necessarily mean that they were democratic but I think that he would have a different title if it were otherwise. Also, this was a "Christian based" organization - there isn't going to be any Authoritarian or Laissez-faire or Abdocratic leader(s). Back to Top Political Philosophy As I look back at everything that Robert Welch accomplished, I consider it amazing that neither he nor any of his "followers" ever resorted to violence. They were big supporters of America and Her justice system and used the system to impose their influence. They did everything by the book (despite the fact that they were extreme - not extreme as in crazy, psycho, Nazi's, but not quite all there either). Finding or deciding on Welch's political philosophy is difficult. He doesn't fit perfectly into one category. My best suggestion would be to classify Robert Welch in combination of categories. The mix being between: Radicalism and Reactionism. Both of these groups are highly active in disliking the present situation. Reactionists desires to have the past back, and Radicalists are very confrontational but without the use of violence. I see both of these categories in Robert Welch. He was a man that was desperate to combat injustice towards America - to put it plainly the UN. He highly disliked the UN and saw them as a huge threat to American freedom. The UN always was plotting to form a one world government and Welch would do all in his power to oppose them. Reactionism applies because they have a strong desire for the past and it's plain as day to see when skimming through the Resolution that he instated in 1970 that he wanted an America, a world that went back to it's roots of solid Christian beliefs and a high standard of morality. As far as his types of arguments goes I would, once again, have to use a combination: Reversive and Restorative. Reversive because he does feel that society has gone too far and needs to go back to a time when people, "�were self-reliant, good mannered, had moral uprightness, a respect for hard work, and valued integrity". He was also a Restorative because I'm sure he feels that now is a very bad time and that any time (in the past) is better than now. You get a sense of this when reading the 16th proposal. He seemed to think that sexual immorality runs rampant with kids and this is due to a decrease in our nation's society. ======

I wouldn't automatically assume anything without knowing ( afaik the founding meeting of the jbs was attended by many (Harry?) ) the overall context in which these particular words were according to Welsh in 1974 were spoken. ======== The overall concensus, on the Internet, is the content of this speech stemmed directly from his original speech in 1958, so those concepts had been put on the table in 1958 for their like anti-Communist followers or the Welch sympathtic Echos of this period. Certainly, well over a thousand web pages from Google searches on this all turn up this information was on the table in 1958. Which appears part and parcel as to their collective concerns that this was all known in 1958. It says so in all the discriptions. It was such an impressive speech that it kicked off the JBS, so Welch's 1958 words would became a large part of the JBS recruitment message. He still likes the message so much, he gives the same in latter years. Thus, Especially to associate, the FBI took interest in what made the JBS and Welch tick, so all that would have been pulled out via investigations and leakers. JFK certainly took a dim image of the JBS via Walker tossing out the Welch theme to the guys in Europe and attempting to directly interfere with the Commander and Chief and the Foreign Policy. So, I'd have to reasonably expect and conclude that the Kennedys would have been exposed to this and it was a large part of what JFK was battling to promote Peace over these fear mongering Drums for War. RFK certainly bought into this stuff for a long time, but then pulled away from McCarthy and this Ilk. Part of the problem was RFK still remained a little too connected to this old group of paranoia promoters.

So tell us Mr. Hogan, if your really watched this video, what is spelled out on the screen at "35 seconds" of play time. You intentionally leave this out. Is there some deceptive reason for this? Is this more of your Deceit games, or did you fall asleep at this early part of the video? It is clear that you don't want to admit the obvious, that this was a 1958 speech by Welch. Here is what the video tells at 35 seconds: "In his first speech Welch Quotes from himself the 1958 JBS founding meeting about insider's long-range plans." Thus, this speech was given in 1958 and these are his quotations of that 1958 Speech. So, this has been rattling around the circles of JBS, LDS, the FBI, all the McCarthy types, and likely right into RFK's ears and attention as he worked with McCarthy for a time. By the time the Kennedy's hit office and ran into Walker they'd all know what Welch was about and about this 1958 speech. So, it is logical to ask if JFK learned of this 1958 Welch Speech and Paid attention. Obviously, he either paid attention or just knew it outright without Welch's help. JFK also knew the cental problem wasn't the Communists, as they were the tool of a bigger plan. So, tell us why you are not argueing with all of the YouTube and other listings that make the very same 1958 observations as the one listed here, and how that makes you look utterly wanting for simple logic. Admit you fell asleep on this part, else you are up to trying to deceive that JFK could not learn of this Speech from 1958. You JFK Heaven non-sense, is pure illogical non-sense. Go away. Stay awake and watch the video next time. Do a Google seach and find thousands of people agree with the information being on the table in 1958 originating from Welch and the common theme of all his Echo group.

Recapped: ========== " Mind blowing speech by Robert Welch in 1958 predicting Insiders plans to destroy America Uploaded by NYredwhiteandblue on Apr 27, 2009 Proof that the NEW WORLD ORDER has been planned by the elite. Robert Welch, Founder of The John Birch Society, predicted today's problems with uncanny accuracy back in 1958 and prescribed solutions in 1974 that are very similar to Ron Paul's positions today. This is proof that there are plans in place by the elite to systemically disassemble US sovereignty. I wonder who those elite are. ========== This same basic discription appears in what appears to be well over a thousand Internet hits for a seach on this topic, so literally thousands of others associate this speech to 1958 and the assimilated information was on the table at that time.

This is getting laughable that Mr. Hogan now appears to be a Johnny Carson "Karnak" character who can hold up something and tell what is inside. He has an interesting mind reader act to follow. He seems to suggest he knows all of what I watch on YouTube. His can't let go "issues" appeared to begin when I made a funny out of the Ideal Gas Equation on a discussion on ballistics. It ended up embarrassing several people for various reasons from technical failings to consider the wave dynamic pressures in a bullet's impact to a head, to the pun to make the look silly for technical illiteracy. That one went on with scientific non-sense for days and pages and pages. Mr. Hogan and his buddy was determined then to attempt to force his opinion on how he understood something, and it went on for pages and pages like some ole man having a fit. He never got over it, seems like. He was just as obcessed appearing then. And it continues on and on. I never go bug him on his threads, but he sure follows mine and offers his goofy opinions. This Karnak think is a real piece of work. Now, if he was a Karnack, he'd have the JFK assassination all mapped out. Obviously, he isn't Karnak, in any sense of the suggestion, but he makes a silly commedy act perhaps. Do you really read minds Mr. Hogan or just think you do?

I'll help all I can. The "ongoing nonsense over mistakes contained in the EF Bio listings" is Phelps' invention and his attempt to misdirect himself away from how this started. He added the Spartacus link to his initial post twelve hours after I pointed out his mistake. He then tried to blame it on John Simkin and Spartacus. All Phelps had to do was watch the video, see that it happened in 1974, and acknowledge his mistake. Instead, he actually convinced himself that Welch died in 1965, because he read it at Spartacus. He didn't bother to check another source. He blames others for that. It has been Phelps that has misdirected his own discussion. Now he calls Lee Farley and Dawn Meredith "the personal attack group here." No one has personally attacked Phelps. I made one very short reply to Phelp's initial post. For three days I watched silently while he falsely accused me of all sorts of things, like personally attacking him and having an axe to grind. Finally, he did so one time too many. No one enjoys bumping Phelps' "listings back to the top of the list" more than Phelps' himself. But in this case, I'm going to accommodate him. All Phelps had to do was watch or pay attention to the video he posted and all this would have been avoided. ======== Yawn. Looks like 900 views at hand. Guess Mr. Hogan didn't watch the video. Else, he would not say this intentionally misleading statement: "All Phelps had to do was watch the video, see that it happened in 1974, and acknowledge his mistake." His truth appears missing on the film/video is direct quote from Welch in 1958, making all that available in 1958. So, JFK doesn't have to be in Heaven on learn about it. It is a two parter and he thinks it is only one. Welch's career is long. Looks like Mr. Hogan has to acknowledge his mistake. Even the You Tube video author paid attention to the film and saw the onscreen announcement that he made those statements in 1958. Mr. Hogan's utter non-sense attempts to state that JFK would have to have been in Heaven to know about a Speech from 1958 with that content. It even says so in the YouTube discription for the film. Mr. Hogan also can't seem to fathom that I watched the video and read many other sources. I paid attention when I watched it and he evidently didn't. He now appears to want to claim to be a mind reader. Shall he dawn the hat of Johnny Carson next to tell he knows all, sees all. I watched the video, he keeps saying I didn't. This is the sort of non-sense he keeps repeating. I guess the fella that listed it on YouTube didn't watch it either because he tells the speech was from 1958 too. I think You Tube discription is accurate. But evidently Mr. Hogan wants to say it never happened. A pal of mine from Colorado sent me the link for the video and I watched it and found it interesting, but misleading. So, the interest to raise the awareness of extended versions of what is a Patsy. So, I tossed the link up, while it was handy to copy and paste into the New Thread. What does one do with a person that can't realize someone watched a video. This is the nutty stuff he attempt to toss out for people to read. Mr. Hogan is going to have to come to the reality that he is wrong, but he is one of those people that likes to argue vapid positions. Also, Mr. Hogan tells originally that I copied all the comments per the first listing, so none of them were my comments. Mr. Hogan just likes to make a scene. Then the rest of his bunch shows up to stir the pot. Boring. Happens time and again. Stupid stuff like this is apparently all he can do. === It is highly obvious the Kennedy's were over the "Red Baiting" Scare issues, and JFK was backing off falling for their games of Communist Invading the US. JFK was steering for the middle of the road between partly Socialistic methods and Capitalistic methods, letting neither become extreme or dominate over the other. They had to kill JFK to stop that return to the peace balance. JFK was about to achieve peace and that would end their games to exploit the US for wars. I hope you all don't mind, if I continue to develop the major issues of the Video being Misleading on what is the Dominant Factor of Communist Invasion or Capitalist Ploy to gain more control over America and use America to pay for their wars. The Patsy Thesis on the larger scale beyong LHO is an interesting theme.

850 Views in a couple days and still front page. You all are doing a bang up job keeping up the distractions. Those distrations will become more and more obvious.

========= Interesting Points. I do think Walker was trying to take over Foreign Policy, and went outside of serving the Commander and Chief. Like the JCS, Walker was trying to run over the Presidency. Walker is right in the Middle of the area where both the Rothschilds pals still lived, like the Openheimers and DeBeers and others. And the UK Royals were really Germans with fake names. They had sights on making a quick war with Russia, while the Nuke imbalance was large. One thing was for certain, the anti-communist war drums were booming loudly in the latter 50s and early 60s, and this was all about pressing fears. DDE let things go too far, and by the time JFK took over they had their own network that would run over the Presidency, and if the President didn't give in, kill him. The UK had so much control over the US at the time of JFK, and it still does.

I see the listing has been bumped back up to the top of the list once again, by the ongoing non-sense over mistakes contained in the EF Bio listing. Guess these people like promoting this link. So, why not. Jim Phelps listed a couple of things, as a placeholder, with just their simplest content, so I would remember to come back and develop the details with the intention of building toward the issues of how the 60s Communist "Fear Mongering" games have been used to promote the extreme right oligarchic Royalist's powers and giving up American's Freedoms. It is typical for me and others to do that. Start out simple, build it up as it goes. Time comes in little packets through the day, and my thread details build slowly. The Welch Video was listed that is wildly making the rounds here lately on YouTube and all the alternative media outlets, with only a couple lines of its content and advertisement. Then, since they operated out of Boston, were involved with McCarthism/RFK, then JFK question added. The Welch Video is about like the "Protocols of Zion", where they try to blame the Zionists, when the bigger deal is the Royalist's Bankers scheming behind the NWO control game. There are often lots of "Patsy's", from the simple Jewish Peoples not involved in Govt or Banking, to the Communist Fear played up to drive control into Rothschild oligarchic Bankers hands, to little guys like LHO to cover their ugly tracks for their quest for power and control over America. Welch attempts to blame the Communists, when the very same "patsy" games are about hiding the men behind the Curtain at the End of the "Yellow Brick Road", the Royalist's ILK and Banking "Wizzards". The US is majorly exploited by them. The Education Forum link for who Welch was and his JBS links for others orientation was tossed out for references, as those are typically pretty good. I also noted the "Boo Boo" on the date. Anyone that saw the video or read any Welch history data would see the problem. So, tossed out and exact "copy and paste" from the EF link of the problem. It was a test to see who would notice. It exposed those who are continually hostile and show intentional disrespect. Then, the Education Forum's disrespect intending person with the seeming hostile "Axe to Grind" finds occasion to make something out of it that it never was. Mr. Hogan's echos, in essence, calls the person that wrote the Bio bad names as it was a "copy and paste" of that error. Then this triggers the Mr. Hogan cheering squad's, the Echo group, typical bad manners and more of what appears to be personal attacks. Else, we'd have seen the flogging of the peron that put the bad data on the Bio. So, then the "Double Standards" come into view. The person that wrote the Bio is only a "type-O", as the excuses begin as they noticed to start reading the Link URL. Opps, slippery slope and one foot lands in their mouth. The correct procedure is to read the link, explain the link's data is off. Not, attack the person's tossing out the link's bad data to see who would take notice the data was bad. Then we get the twisting of the details, as they all have one foot in their mouth for "Double Standards". Just about none of the original listing had any of my comments yet. Just two links and their comments. Yet, the personal attack group here attempts to put all the blame on the fella developing a new threads content and attempts to abduct and distroy the whole purpose of the thread. This happens far too often on EF, and it amounts to a personal attack rather than correcting the link's data. It stems from only a few that constantly attempt these personal attacks, and avoid using Mr. Phelps as respectful. You can tell real quickly who they are as the go after the person and not the details or data. Most of them have quit, but for Mr. Hogan can't seem to let things go. He always seems combative, always intent on disrespect and it shows from the moment he uses the term Phelps. So, we have Mr. Hogan and Echo gang that has the axe to grind that jumps on the statement clearly linked to the EF Bio, which means anyone would note the EF listing was wrong, first and foremost. If they bothered to read, or watch the items. Yet, Mr. Hogan has to field the non-sense that I didn't watch the video. Utter illogical Non-sense. So, when they crank out that, it is then personal attack mode. Their Logic falls apart as they make wild claims. And soon their intent for being hostile becomes apparent and the nonsense extreme. Then the Hogan cheering club shows up, which is typical, appears orchestrated, as they seem to like to do a combined attack on persons they don't like. They have little Klicks and self-aggrandizations of each other. They have this little cheering club, the Echo club, that ignore Mr. Hogan jumped the gun and went for personal attack rather than reading the Film's information, the Bio's error and dealing with the data fault. Then, their collective train wreck begins and each's feet begin to get stuck in each's mouth. Thus far, I have quoted an Education Forum's Bio quotation, and the very same rule that the Education Forum needs to check its contend doesn't seem to apply to the Bio's author, and if it did then it was a "type-O". The "Double Standard" then appears, which they can't seem to explain. So, now they develop this "Witch Hunt" because they have two standards, one that tells the Bio's mistake is OK, that is just a type-O, and the other standard that I was never supposed to call attention to the mistake and let the hapless trio stick first one foot into their mouths and then try for both, then all three fall down all over themselves trying to remove inserted feet in each other's mouths. Mr. Hogan's impressions of things are what I see as attempts to misdirect discussions. We see even Mr. Kelly trying to list three thing in a row on one thread, because I was ignoring his non-sense. We have Mr. Hogan trying to make something out of nothing again and again. And making himself all the more obvious because of his petty contrivances. Mr. Hogan's "Detail oriented" appears to be a farse, as the film and the Internet sources all say the same thing a thousand timese over. And so it goes on the climate of Education Forum that appears to hate free thinking, and can't even wait for a subject to be developed before their attack begins. They can't talk about the data, just attack the person. It shows from the very first mention of the term Phelps, their intention for disrespect becomes obvious. It will be some time before they all can remove that many feet from each other's mouths and I am sure that the bad tastes will linger forever. Back to Yawning----nothing new with this little group of negative types that like to abduct a thread, create a faked up stink, and can't explain themselves with any amount of poor excuses. They have "Double Standards", attack the person and not the data, make contrivances, create a hostile environment, change what they said, and cause disruption of even the simplest of listings. IMHO, One more example for their bad behaviors caputured for all to see.

I know you don't get much attention here, Jim. It doesn't take a genius to work out why. If it wasn't for Mike negatively replying to your strange and bizzare posts it would simply be you issuing page after page of tedious threads. You were told in a different message from me; if you find an error on the Spartacus website then PM John Simkin and I'm sure he'll change it. Baiting me with another reply to my post when you told me I had difficulty saying "bye" just proves that any attention is good attention, eh? Bye (I promise) ============== I think it is called attention to details, as I do correct your statements, as needed. And your lack of attention to details. "Promise". Yawn. You all can keep making up more non-sense and I'll just keep on pointing it out. I really doubt that your not dropping by will make a dent in the page views. Might drive them up in number actually, by others looking to see what your latest diatribe line is about. It does get interesting that several can't seem to get to the main issue, and would rather have a mess of distraction commentary to attempt to draw the subject off where it was going to lead. It gets there anyway. But It does make me sleepy with the same old same ole boring ploys. BTW---I see you are from Liverpool, UK, and the home of those long haired Bagles that brought the US into the Drug music business of the 60s.

Jim, It is an obvious typo and I'm sure John Simkin will correct it now that it has been highlighted. If you had actually read the biography of the man on the page you cited his date of passing from then you should have noticed the following: "In 1970 he [Welch] wrote in American Opinion that "America is becoming increasingly socialist. It is obvious that socialist government increasingly controls us from the cradle to the crematorium."" and also: "When he started the JBS he [Welch] claimed that the USA was 20-40 per cent communist-controlled. By 1978 he claimed it had reached 60-80 per cent." Now these two things cited in the article would have been a little difficult for Welch to actually accomplish if he was in fact dead. Deflecting blame for your own lack of research is also not very smart. I think your reaction in being told you are wrong is unjustified. You are in charge of checking your sources and even a cursory glance through the article would have told you that it was an honest error. ===== Gee Lee, I can't seem to find where you said I needed to PM Mr. Simkin. In fact, the only thing I can find per that is the above. A great big Yawn again, just for you and your faulty memory. Besides, there are these detail oriented people to handle this for us. We'll just see if what you said originally comes to pass. It'll make a good test. I do think any unbiased person would have to note the Mr. Hogan non-sense making stems from the simple fact that I don't follow him in lock step. I am a very independent thinker, and I block Mr. Hogan's comments due to his pattern and causing problems. I don't share your views of Mr. Hogan. Just where did all this non-sense stem from but to attempt to keep the attention off what is really happening over this JBS piece dragged out of the closet again to point at the wrong faction. My reason for highlighting this attention being given to this JBS piece is to focus the attention onto the right subject, and it isn't primarily the Communists or the Islamics. They are only the fulcrum for another Oligarchic Alliance, their Patsy, so to speak. Lets get down to the chase here and consider that the video piece on Welch and the JBS is really making the rounds on the Internet, and it has misleading features like attempting to blame only the Communists. The real issue for why this is coming up again is the Oligarchs and the Banker Royalists are getting nervous and going back to their old formula on ramping up the "Red Baiting" and the Communists are totally responsible. The real issue is the Communist style formula scare tactics are used to fuel the Neo-Con types and their Oligarchic and the Royalist Ilk. The Russians got tired of being the Victims and started "Waging Peace". Now the Neo-Con version of the Red Scare is the Islamics are behind every tree. No doubt the JBS and their buddies with the LDS are into working that system to cause harm and exploitation to "We The People," just as the Catholic P-2's do much the same for power and control. Which is why I found a few of those author's writings in that 1982 LaRouche piece so interesting. I am well aware LaRouche gets off base on some things, but some of his authors well hit the nail on the head. So, the highlighted selections that I listed appeared to be very much on the mark for what was happening in Europe with Dulles, PERMINDEX, DeM.. and others. LaRouche gets extremely close with his authors for Dope, Inc. also. So, was all this recent noise here due to those wanting to distract me from getting down to the real issue for that video's making the rounds of popularity recently? Was the disrespecful Mr. Hogan and his Echo minions really incapable of Internet Searches displaying 1958 speech and the video itself? BTW, I don't think it would make even a small dent in the number of views for this thread if either you or Mr. Hogan didn't happened to view. I suggest more flawed logic, since the views look just fine. And the comments are coming along as others see what you have been up to. Allow me to Yawn once again.

If he did, he did so from heaven. Welch gave that speech on March 9, 1974. Although Welch quotes himself from 1958, the speech was given at the JBS Council Dinner in 1974, as the video clearly states. Phelps got his description word for word from the person that posted it on YouTube. I'm not sure that Phelps even watched the video. ========== Yawn... Robert W. Welch died on 6th January, 1965 ========== Best find your spectacles, Jim. Welch died on the 6th of January, 1985. I've put this in a larger font in case you can't find your specs. Michael Hogan is one of the most detail driven members of the board. And very respected. Yawning at his corrections to your blatant errors is not very smart... =========== Really, is this acclaimed "attention to detail" why Mr. Hogan, nor his Echos, can't seem to find two glaring errors on the Board's own Bio for Welch and JBS? Looks to be a little more of an issue than one type-O, as it shows up in two URL's now. Just remember, all I did was list these URL's and the sentence with error and that means Mr. Hogan's and his Echos must be calling Mr. Simkin ugly names for missing those dates. Unless you are really saying Mr. Hogan has little attention to details. So "detail oriented" that he can't seem to read but the top line of a listing, and can't get the Board's own Bios fixed. Or that the above says 1958, as does a thousand plus Internet hits on Google and the video itself, and why he must twist it into something different? I don't think you can support any of that as detail oriented. IMHO. Plus, Mr. Hogan seems to screw up the logic flow on DiEugenio's discussion on Bay of Pigs, so that DiEugenio has to correct things there. That isn't detail oriented enough to stay on track there either. Mr. Hogan makes lots of errors, and his Echos follow in lock step. Your theme appears rather bogus.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKbirchS.htm "Robert Welch died on 6th January, 1965 and Lawrence P. McDonald replaced him as chairman of the John Birch Society." ============== http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKwelchR.htm Robert W. Welch died on 6th January, 1965 and Lawrence P. McDonald replaced him as chairman of the John Birch Society.

Mr. DiEugenio, Great Insights! I can certainly agree that the "Bay of Pigs" was when JFK showed some real initiative and resisted being made the fall guy for starting a war of aggression with Cuba. He'd be in volation of International Laws. If JFK took their bait, he'd like get a war crime charge, as you just can't attack a country out of the blue. Which is why the Deceit and Treachery based JCS and Lemnitzer came up with the faked up plan called Operation Norwood, so that JFK might have an excuse to attack Cuba because they attacked the US. If the world buys the deception, then the War Crime is masked. Ike was rather weak and played into the Mil / Ind Network's big plans to make a war, any war on Communism. They were ramping up for war with Russia, and Cuba was a pathway. JFK outfoxed them and played things down, and when he was killed their worst nightmare was happening. JFK was getting Peace with Castro, and Peace and cooperation with Russia. It didn't help things that JFK also spotted the games of the Fed. Res. Networking and liking to make these wars. JFK was going to cut the Fed. Res. throat with his new "US Notes". It was a good plan that the US still needs to force into place and with more than just Ron Paul calling for it to happen. JFK was also going to yank the last connection for the Indo-China drug games and dump the Vietnam War, so the Crooked Dealers of the Shadown Government were loosing all their "Double Dealing" games like dominos falling in succession. JFK was also going to put Hoover out and his cover up buddy LBJ too. JFK isolated all the big Crooks corruption games played by the Office of the President and was turning the corner toward what he promissed on Peace, real Freedom for the People, removing the exploitation of Americans, and a "Rising Tide Lifting All Boats".

Phelps starts a thread about the release of CIA Bay of Pigs documents, then when it was pointed out to him that such a thread already existed and that his link did not work, follows it up with an irrelevant link to Lyndon LaRouche's Executive Intelligence Review. No further comment necessary. ========= I do think some folks like to read about these Allan Dulles connections, the Mafia and CIA connections, and some of these other subjects from other's perspectives. In that URL there is Even ole George DeM... and the anti-communists are in the fray and that hooks up with LHO and the Cuban history issues. If you don't like to read various sources -- then don't. It is pretty apparent that you seem to read only the top line of a listing and then take off on some commentary that doesn't fit. But the rest of us do like to check varied sources, who are not disgruntled, and we can even read URL's and not spout off petty quip non-sense for attention. Nobody is buying your latest baiting and disruption exercise. Some of that history, from varied authors on that URL, tells the sordid history of how the CIA and US got into the business of doing what was going on in Europe long before Castro. There are some good insights by several authors in that URL's content. Like how did Dulles get into these connections with Swiss and PERMINDEX.

Here's a link that works: ========= I block Mr. Hogan's messages and a few others that appear intent on disruption. He earned that with pages and pages of non-sense on other listings. So, I generally don't read his comments. Either someone has to comment or I have to hit a button to see one of his comments. But, just to illustrate that he appears to tell stories to disrupt issues---compare the two CIA FOIA URL's. Perhaps Mr. Hogan wants to say that his CIA URL doesn't work--as they appear to be the same thing. In fact, the CIA links work just fine and were listing multiple times in the listing. The links are listed in the News article itself and the News article's URL. You'd have to be literally blind to miss that. So, this is yet another example for disruptive behaviors and why I don't pay attention to Mr. Hogan's petty misdirection. Guess he has gone back to telling made up non-sense again for attention. Get a life Mr. Hogan, go bug some other threads. Else you look mighty foolish in saying your link doesn't work. It looks like you are even trying to screw up DiEugenio's discussions in other zones, with leading off on the wrong directions there and DiEugenio having to keep making corrections for your off base commentary and lacking associative logic per his subject material. DiEugenio does good work and he knows the Montreal issues, too. I read his commentary and he is always polite, to a fault. Mr. Hogan should pay attention to his example, but I doubt Mr. Hogan's wants to be constructive. =====

In reading about the controlling mess in Europe, ran into this history of how all the complicated mess with the Mafia and the war came into being, why Hoover was protecting the Mafia and Meyer Lansky, and lots lots more. The interesting reads are around 1/3 down the article collections page: ========= http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/1982/eirv09n15-19820420/eirv09n15-19820420.pdf "Who Inherited the Fascit's International Coup and Terror Network"--PERMINDEX, DeGaulle. "Anglo-American Intelligence Project"---Operation Underworld "Buckley-Dulles"---DeMohrenschldt--anti-Communist League and lots more history linked to CIA

From Google, Looking like the newly FOIA'd CIA records release is on-line and lots more in their CIA web page---http://www.foia.cia.gov/: ========= http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/08/03/2342993/cia-releases-more-bay-of-pigs.html CIA releases more Bay of Pigs invasion secret papers Related Content View the Bay of Pigs documents at the CIA's official website: http://www.foia.cia.gov/ By Luisa Yanez Miami Herald On the 50th anniversary of the infamous Bay of Pigs invasion, the Central Intelligence Agency has released more of it long-held secret papers on its failed 1961 Cuba operation to overthrow Fidel Castro. The secret documents were released in Washington, D.C., pursuant to a Freedom of Information Act filed by Peter Kornbluh, an activist who has long sough to unmask U.S. secret operations in Latin America. In past years, Kornbluh has won the release of other Bay of Pigs records. He announced the release of the latest batch on Monday. Kornbluh said the CIA posted the four volumes of documents of its “Official History of the Bay of Pigs,” when 1,500 Cuban exiles invaded their homeland from Guatemala and Nicaragua between April 17-19, 1961. Many were captured and sent to prison in Cuba and 104 died in the effort. Hundreds of Bay of Pigs veterans live in South Florida. The newly-released archives include Volume 2: "Participation in the Conduct of Foreign Policy," which contains detailed information on the CIA's negotiations with Guatemala, Nicaragua, Panama and Great Britain on support for the invasion. “The CIA has finally seen the wisdom of letting the public scrutinize this major debacle in the covert history of U.S. foreign policy," said Kornbluh, who directs the Cuba Documentation Project, in a news release. Kornbluh said the agency has yet to release Volume 5 of its official history. “That volume is the CIA’s rebuttal to the stinging CIA's Inspector General's report, done in the immediate aftermath of the invasion, which held CIA officials accountable for a wide variety of mistakes, miscalculations and deceptions that characterized the failed invasion,” Kornbluh said in his release. The National Security Archive obtained the declassification of the secret Inspector General's report in 1998. =========== Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/08/03/2342993/cia-releases-more-bay-of-pigs.html#ixzz1U4WA2KeG ========= http://www.foia.cia.gov/ Bay of Pigs Release The CIA history of the Bay of Pigs operation in 1961, originally classified top secret, based on dozens of interviews with key operatives and officials and hundreds of CIA documents. The four volumes include information never before released and comprise (I) Air Operations, March 1960-1961; (II) Participation in the Conduct of Foreign Policy; (III) Evolution of CIA’s Anti-Castro Policies, 1959-January 1961; and (IV) The Taylor Committee Investigation of the Bay of Pigs. Volume I - Air Operations, March 1960-April 1961 Part 1 http://www.foia.cia.gov/bay-of-pigs/bop-vol1-part1.pdf Part 2 http://www.foia.cia.gov/bay-of-pigs/bop-vol1-part2.pdf Part 3 http://www.foia.cia.gov/bay-of-pigs/bop-vol1-part3.pdf Volume II - Participation in the Conduct of Foreign Policy 92 Part 1 http://www.foia.cia.gov/bay-of-pigs/bop-vol2-part1.pdf Part 2 http://www.foia.cia.gov/bay-of-pigs/bop-vol2-part2.pdf Volume III - Evolution of CIA's Anti-Castro Policies, 1951-January 1961 http://www.foia.cia.gov/bay-of-pigs/bop-vol3.pdf Volume IV - The Taylor Committee Investigation of the Bay of Pigs http://www.foia.cia.gov/bay-of-pigs/bop-vol4.pdf ==========

If he did, he did so from heaven. ==== Ya Know---as best I can tell JFK was not in heaven in 1958. Thanks for pointing out the logic of that one line. Guess some people can't read, or they like to twist simple so directly stated. No Heaven, but Perhaps the Hell of the US, due to the rebel rousing on red baiting issues. Yawn

Sounds like another JFK repugnant secrecy file has been exposed and de-classified for all to check and see if we knew what really happened. Good Job "National Security Archive" for breaking those loose. ======= http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/9777075 US releases more classified Bay of Pigs documents Share reddit this AP foreign, Tuesday August 2 2011 LAURA WIDES-MUNOZ AP Hispanic Affairs Writer= MIAMI (AP) — The U.S. has released more classified documents about the 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, showing the close involvement of the Guatemalan government. The release Monday came in response to a lawsuit filed in April by the independent, Washington-based National Security Archive to declassify all five volumes on the failed CIA-backed invasion by Cuban exiles who hoped to overthrow Fidel Castro. One volume has yet to be released. The new release details the close relationship between the U.S. and Guatemala, where the exiles trained for the assault. They show how then-Guatemalan President Miguel Ydigoras Fuentes wanted his own troops to participate in the invasion. When Ydigoras' unpopular, military-backed government faced a series of attacks from Guatemalan rebels, its officials asked the U.S. for napalm bombs. The request was denied. =========

Rather interesting on the JBS "Blue Book": http://www.archive.org/stream/TheBlueBook/MicrosoftWord-Document1_djvu.txt Check out members of the JBS board. ======= Even more interesting on the FBI files: http://sites.google.com/site/ernie124102/jbs-1 ====== And the JBS was trying to seed information in the PTA for young minds. Into what they call Communists in the Church, which was more than likely someone teaching the Essene History of Jesus, which the Royalist Oligarch want to suppress.

Lee, All my listings need to be read in their entirity, or watched carefully, and then cordial discussion should be the rule. They might even need considerable thought. This one is really simple though. It also tends to take several listing per thread to develop a topic. This one started with a bare minumum listing per JBS's issues in Boston. Some appear to want instant gratification, but a good topic takes time to develop constructively. So, if you'd like to get constructively into the topic, which is the JBS's being used or being a willing party of the Royalist's game play, which came to run over JFK, then proceed. Just trying to get the thread focused on the topic of the Communist Evil VS how useful that was toward forcing the Mil / Ind Network's games that came to look more like a global IG Farbin of the Royalist's. I see you have problems with Byes. Allow me to "Yawn" again. All these Mr. Hogan's and his minions disrespect is obvious to all and this typical Hogan Echos gang is very obvious. You might explain to your leader that my name is Mr. Phelps to him and his minions.

I don't agree with Mr. Hogan on many things, and his observations here are yet one more example. He is usually not being constructive in his comments, IMHO. He typically has to veer into personal insults, very intentional disrespect by not using Mr. Phelps, else I'd not see my name used disrespectfully and he'd work on the material presented. Which, if he'd done that, would have found the EF Boo-Boo. I do think the problem is Mr. Hogan has this "axe to grind" since he has the habbit of reading something and trying to make it into something else. Ever time he comes around, he has to insult. I don't run over to his threads and make friction. It was clearly listed where the citation came from, so all those folks recommeding glasses, go put them on and go read the orgin of the wrong information. Deal with only that. I don't think Welch's central thesis has changed from when he cranked up the JBS in 1958, and the video just captures his long term obsevations. However, I think he places blame onto Communism as a cover or excuse to cover up the Royalist banker's games. Was Welch being used for the ploy or was he a willing helper of the Rich seeking more power and wealth? It is pretty clear for the cases of the Merchinsons or the Rothschilds Fed. Res., those usual suspects. I was doing a play on words once before and Mr. Hogan blew that up, and he can't let that go. That one ran on for pages and pages and destroyed the entire topic for a long time. he very much intended the same disrespect then, as now. Do return to the central topic and that is the JBS being part and parcel of what grew to kill JFK, not over Comminism but over "Extreme Right" Capitalism games using Communist fear mongering. I don't think this grew simply from the JBS or Welch, but his New York associates rebel rousing likely set the stage for the JBS being used and abused as much as the American people that fell short of the whole picture. JFK captured the whole picture of what was wagging the the dog via the tail. Nothing new. The problem is the source is wrong on EF. All I did was point that out, quietly. Mr. Hogan's Echo gang wanted to make a scene, it appears. He makes wild claims like I didn't watch the video. I did watched the entire video clip and read even further. I clearly listed the URL and the source of the citation----it came from EF. That was wrong information per the date and easily spotted by anyone, as we have well shown--- the correct move then is to address that site's URL as being wrong on the date. Does that really change anything per Welch's theses, I doubt it. Welch was anti-communist from day one and the response to that fueled the response and opened the door to have the conspiring Royals take control of the US. The Communist didn't take the US from within, the Royalist Banker's did and their Dirty Dealing British consorts. And Kruchev was right that the US would fall from within, but not to Communism directly. Perhaps Kruchev knew the Roman Empire's demise was similar, so history tells us this has indeed happened before. Kruchev gave the US fair warning, and dumb Americans just don't listen nor do they even defend the fallen hero JFK. Just about anyone looking closely at the "movers and shakers" saw Communism as a tool for the global expansion of the Royalists. If Mr. Hogan's disrespectful Echo gang insists in jumping on me for making an observation of the Forum that was in error to see who was watching and reading, then let the "Witch Hunt" begin right there on EF's Bio. Anyone that had their glasses on and watched the video and read the EF Bio would see the error glaring on the last line of the EF Bio. I even looked the Welch fella up on Wiki and noted the "Bio boo-boo" existed. I not only watched the video and did several hours worth of reading on Welch and the Burch gang, so then I'd test just who else could read and comprehend. Obviously, about zero read the EF's Bio. The "Yawn" was a simple response from their typical boring run around that avoided disclosing the obvious. Mr. Hogan's Echos follow him around and always do this sort of attack. You tell em twice and they still doesn't get it. Double Yawn. Their Vapidity is boring. See who was reading and sharp enough to see the issue. Obviously, for those with a nice decorum that bothered to read and comprehend---they'd say the EF listing was wrong----and say they'd take care of it---and pass around the correction. But the tactics of Mr. Hogan and his Echo group are to cause a scene and twist the issues. Unfortunately, per usual with Mr. Hogan, he still can't let things go. It is one more blow up. One more example of what appears to be Combative disrepect, else We'd all see my name as Mr. Phelps, if it was really called for. The problem was and still is the EF Bio has bad data, which they try to ignore. If he looks foolish for jumping on me for quietly testing those reading the listing, then let him look rude, disrespectful, and condescending once again and his Echos also shown to be playing his same game to mislead. I certainly didn't ask for one of his condescending remarks with such a simple test. Let's drop this nonsense distraction that some seem to want to pull attention off the issue of the Burch gang over a trivial matter that Mr. Hogan can't read what is obvious to the world and get back onto the issue of did Bob Welch's Communism games play a role in JFK's demise. Did the John Burch society play into the games of the Royalist's scheme to get JFK out of the way for the longer term Royalist's planning? Is Communism just a tool, and the real goal not being Communism, but the Royalist's Oligarchy. Which is what JFK was breaking apart. Even the Communist have figured out they were being used and started the "Waging Peace" game, which was supposed to and did diffuse the Royalist's banking games. So, now they have to have a new nemisis, and that is terrorists, Islam, and those evil people that don't like usury or the Federal Reserve methods. They can't even use China in Red Scare tactics because they own more of the US than the Saudis. North Korea is too small, leaving only the fabricated New Pearl Harbor scam on America by the corrupt Bush Neo-Cons of PNAC. I find it very ineresting that JFK taught the Soviets how to "Wage Peace", which is exactly what he was doing when the Royalists killed him. JFK was succeeding with Peace. Looks like the JFK proposed joint cooperation of the Russians and US is complete, because the US will use the Soviet Rockets to put Astronaughts in space. One more of JFK's insights taking shape. Just need to complete the rest. Obama needs to wake up and learn that the low interest consistent with Islamic issues is allowing rampant inflation that only rewards the ultra rich Fed. Res. types. Inflation is a tax on every American and it had halved the dollar's value in the time Obama has been in office. Generally, there are several around these parts that seem to not like that I cut right to the chase on what and who had JFK killed, complete with all the motives and methods to achieve this greater plan that now threatens the US's National Security as it all comes into full and plain view. ========