Thomas Graves

Well, Roy, don't you see that Ruth really did have Oswald's best interest in mind? She didn't want him to have to breathe those noxious airplane fumes. --Tommy

Richard, You should proof read your post for confusing blanks, awkward constructions, missing background, etc. Also, the link is dead. --Tommy

Barto, In all sincerity, I totally agree with you on that But I think you can see how it's plausible that Oswald called that strange little area next to the second floor lunch room a "vestibule" by mistake, for the simple reason that he didn't know the words "foyer" or "anteroom." Or perhaps someone (Holmes? Fritz?) ignorantly claimed that Oswald said "vestibule" to describe that place on the second floor. Or maybe somebody (Holmes? Fritz?) paraphrased Oswald and ignorantly decided to use that incorrect word. That's all I'm trying to say. --Tommy PS Wasn't Holmes the only person to ascribe the word "vestibule" to Oswald? Anybody else?

Michael, Thanks for that. We actually agree on something for a change. It's from the French and is pronounced foy-YAY, correct? I wonder if that word was in Oswald's vocabulary, or in the vocabularies of any of those highly-cultured TSBD employees. I know the word, very rarely use it, and didn't even think of it in the context of the "lunch room encounter." But, upon reflection, it is perfect. For what it's worth, only 2% of the other U.S. students who took the same College Board exam I took in 1966 (or was it 1965?) did better than I did on the "verbal intelligence" part, so I'm thinking now -- if I didn't think to use that word earlier in this post, what are the chances Oswald would have used it ("foyer"), or the Ray Mitcham-suggested "anteroom," to refer to anything in the building, and / or to have used either of those words correctly? Come to think of it, Oswald did pretty gosh darn good to use that there intellectual-soundin' word "vestibule" to describe that thingy up there on the second floor, didn't he? It is, after all, much more descriptive and accurate (to his highly-cultured fella Texans, any-hoo) than Ed LeDoux's preferred "hallway" or "passageway" or "corridor' Just a-sayin' --Tommy Edited and Bumped

Barto (and other members), I think you would agree that "vestibule" is a word that the vast majority of Americans are either unfamiliar with or would tend to misuse in a Rodney Dangerfield [q.v.] kind of way, and that the words "foyer" and "anteroom" are strange / exotic / intellectual-sounding words for most Americans, too Bearing that in mind, I think Oswald used "vestibule" (improperly) to designate the compact, fully-enclosed, strangely-shaped, five-sided, three-doored, section of passageway / hallway near the second floor lunchroom, not realizing that he should have called it "the foyer," "the anteroom," or my personal, Ed LeDoux-inspired favorite, "the compact, three-doored, five-sided, room-like section of hallway / passageway next to the second floor lunch room." At least Oswald "gave it a shot" (pardon the pun) when he called that strange area next to the second-floor lunch room "the vestibule," I seriously wouldn't have known the correct individual word to use (i.e. "foyer" or "anteroom", and in my stupid, Rodney Dangerfield kind of way, I think "vestibule" sounds pretty damn good, don't you, Barto? Hell, at least he didn't say "closet" or some other word that even uneducated Americans know the meaning of. --Tommy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_Dangerfield https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DODvxqkUlac

Yes, Ian, I see your point. They should have disregarded, to some extent, the male in the vestibule, upon whom Baker had already pulled his gun, and paid more attention to the possibility that some female employees would try to escape. If they had done so, they would have noticed those two possible assassins in nylons and semi high-heels who were sneaking so loudly across the wooden floor, especially if Truly (being closest to the vestibule door) could recognize the familiar voices of two gals who happened to work up on the fourth floor. Five days a week. Hmmm indeed, one supposes, doesn't one, rather. --Tommy Sorry for the excessive British wit, Old Chap, but I have been reading Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy and Smiley's People recently, and it seems to have rubbed off on me somewhat, and to tell you the truth, I'm still bloody pissed (drunk) and mad (insane) from having had (past perfect continuous or a gerund in there or some such thing) to teach British English the seven years I was in the Czech Republic. Jesis Maria. .

Ian, Good observation I hadn't noticed that. I'll have to look at the schematic of the second floor again to determine whether that five-sided foyer / vestibule was good for anything other than clandestine meetings and armed confrontations. Oh, yes, and soundproofing --Tommy

Hi, Bob! "By George, I think you've got it!" Not for high heels and chattering women, anyway. There's hope for you yet, Cowboy Bob. And if Adams and Styles were chatting (or even if they weren't) the few seconds they were on the second floor in their noisy high heeled shoes, and if Baker and Truly were partially hidden behind the partially-open "sound proof" vestibule door, then, by golly, they (Adams and Styles) could very well have not noticed them (Baker, Truly, and Oswald) over there in the vestibule, couldn't they? --Tommy

So, are you saying that I'm a Lone Nutter, Cowboy Bob? I'm not, but you can call me that if you want to. It has a much nicer "ring" to it that what you used to call me -- "Disinfo Agent." Remember, Bobby? (I've saved the PM you sent me at 6:55 am one morning.) Do you think that Oswald must have been guilty if Baker and Truly really did encounter him in the vestibule / 2nd floor lunch room when they said they did? If so, I'm sorry you feel that way, Bobby. You really do need to think "outside of the box" a little more often, Cowboy. By the way, you never did thank me for finding Peggy Joyce Hawkins (ne Bibler) and little Johnny for you. And so close to Baker's radio and the TSBD, too! And come to think of it, I showed you where Roy Truly was during the motorcade a couple of months ago, too! (Not far from Jeraldean Reid!) You had asked the question "Where Was Roy Truly Right After The Last Shot Was Fired?," and I showed you, didn't I Bob? And you never thanked me, did you, Cowboy Bob. Probably because what I showed you didn't fit in with your theory-in-progress, huh, Bobby? Oh well, at least you stopped asking the question, so you must have accepted my answer as fact. But it sure would have been nice if you'd said "thanks," or "good job, Thomas," or something, seein' as how you were the one who asked the question in the first place. What are you, some kind of ingrate, Cowboy Bob? Or just a rude, slightly paranoiac... insomniac? --Tommy Bumped for Cowboy Bob

Ian, Care to speculate where Baker ran to, if not up the TSBD front steps, about 30 seconds after the assassination? Care to speculate as to why there were no witnesses who said anything about where Baker sprinted to (other than "in front of the TSBD" for a few seconds), and what he did once he got there? Cowboy Bob needs all the help he can get with these little details. --Tommy Tommy, You know that my reply was in response to your post that you subsequently deleted and replaced with a new post as I was responding to your initial post...(if you can follow that!!)... Yes, Ian I was hoping you wouldn't notice that. The Bad Guys pay me a lot of money to do that sort of thing here from time to time. Nice catch, Old Boy. --Tommy

So, are you saying that I'm a Lone Nutter, Cowboy Bob? I'm not, but you can call me that if you want to. It has a nicer "ring" to it that what you used to call me -- "Disinfo Agent." Remember, Bobby? (I've saved the PM you sent me at 6:55 am one morning.) Are you afraid that Oswald must have been guilty if Baker and Truly really did encounter him in the "vestibule" / 2nd floor lunch room when they said they did? If so, I'm sorry you feel that way You really do need to think "outside of the box" a little more often, Cowboy Bob. By the way, you never did thank me for finding Peggy Joyce Hawkins (ne Bibler) and little Johnny for you. And so close to Baker's radio and the TSBD, too! And come to think of it, I showed you where Roy Truly was during the motorcade a couple of months ago, too! (Not far from Jeraldean Reid!) You had asked the question "where was Roy Truly Right After The Last Shot Was Fired?," and I showed you, didn't I Bob. And you never thanked me, Cowboy Bob. Probably because what I showed you didn't fit in with your theory-in-progress, huh, Cowboy Bob? Oh well, at least you stopped asking the question, you you must have accepted my answer as fact. What are you, an ingrate, Cowboy Bobby? Or just a rude, slightly paranoiac insomniac? --Tommy

Try imaging the following things, Cowboy Bob: "Lunch room ceiling, Third floor floor, Lunch room walls, 3" heels, Sounds, Two women walking across 3rd floor floor in 3" heels, Two women walking down wooden stairs from third floor floor to second floor floor in 3" heels, Wooden stairs, Wooden stairs, Wooden stairs, Darn vestibule door not completely soundproof after all (large glass pane does not block sound, etc), Hmmm. Two guys tromping up wooden stairs from first floor, Wooden stairs, Wooden stairs, Wooden Stairs, One of whom is wearing boots -- motorcycle boots!, Wooden stairs, Wooden stairs, Wooden ... " --Tommy Third floor? Come on, Thomas, you mean to say you don't even know that Adams and Styles watched the motorcade from the 4th floor? Cowboy Bob, Are you now saying that Adams and Styles somehow went directly from the fourth floor to the second floor without even setting foot on the third floor? Sounds like pure speculation to me. --Tommy

Ian, Care to speculate where Baker ran to, if not up the TSBD front steps, about 30 seconds after the assassination? Care to speculate as to why there were no witnesses who said anything about where Baker sprinted to (other than "in front of the TSBD" for a few seconds), and what he did once he got there? Cowboy Bob needs all the help he can get with these little details. --Tommy

Try imaging the following things, Cowboy Bob: "Lunch room ceiling, Third floor floor, Lunch room walls, 3" heels, Sounds, Two women walking across 3rd floor floor in 3" heels, Two women walking down wooden stairs from third floor floor to second floor floor in 3" heels, Wooden stairs, Wooden stairs, Wooden stairs, Darn vestibule door not completely soundproof after all (large glass pane does not block sound, etc), Hmmm. Two guys tromping up wooden stairs from first floor, Wooden stairs, Wooden stairs, Wooden Stairs, One of whom is wearing boots -- motorcycle boots!, Wooden stairs, Wooden stairs, Wooden ... " --Tommy

Hi Bob! There weren't many people inside the building because most of them were outside, watching the motorcade Oswald had probably just come to the lunch room from his position on the front steps as Prayer Man (where he might have been monitoring Joe Molina during the motorcade), and had seen the President get shot, or could surmise that he had been shot. He may have thought he was alone or nearly alone, in the TSBD from the second floor up, and may have been surprised to hear any footsteps from where he was in the lunchroom You figure it out. It's interesting that you didn't address the other half of what I said. You know, the bit about the sounds of the four "heels" scurrying down the stairs from above him? Typical Cowboy Bob. He only get half of the story. --Tommy

I thought no one could hear people on the stairs through that door. Hi Bob! Just because Richard says it was a 100% soundproof door doesn't mean that it actually was. Regardless, how about the sounds of four "heels" (belonging to Adams and Styles) scurrying down the stairs above, coming through the walls and ceiling of the lunchroom? Hmmm? --Tommy

"It absolutely boggles my mind!" -- Fetzer --Tommy

Jim. It's like the Buffalo Springfield said -- "Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep..." --Tommy

Robert is to be congratulated on his theory/discovery that Baker didn't go in right away. I don't believe he has totally accepted that yet, but he's right. He'll be vindicated. He already has been imo. That's right, Sandy. He may have "lingered" in the area for a whole five or ten seconds. --Tommy

Dear Forum Members, Robert Prudhomme is wrong (or worse) when he says it was a small pane of glass. Note the foyer / vestibule outer door in the photo, below. --Tommy

Richard, What makes you think Cowboy Bob's truck even has a door? Sorry. I couldn't resist. --Tommy

Michael, Thanks for that. We actually agree on something for a change. It's from the French and is pronounced foy-YAY, correct? I wonder if that word was in Oswald's vocabulary, or in the vocabularies of any of those high-cultured TSBD employees. I know the word, very rarely use it, and didn't even think of it in the context of the "lunch room encounter." But, upon reflection, it is perfect. For what it's worth, only 2% of the other students who took the same College Board exam I took in 1966 (or was it 1965?) did better than I did on the "verbal intelligence" part, so I'm thinking now -- if I didn't remember that word earlier in this post, what are the chances Oswald would have used it? Come to think of it, Oswald did pretty dang good to use the intellectual-soundin' word "vestibule" to describe that thingy on the second floor, didn't he? It is, after all, much more descriptive and accurate (among fellow Texans, anyhoo) than "hallway" or "passageway." Just sayin' --Tommy

Fast Eddie, That thing on the second floor is the funniest-looking enclosed, compact, five-sided, three-doored "hallway" I've ever seen. OK, if not "vestibule," should we call it a "closet," instead? Or a "cloak room?" Hey! I got it! How about "a compact, five-sided, three-doored, passageway nexus" ! Anything but "hallway," Fast Eddie. Mahalo, --Tommy PS An overheard (by the NSA) hush-hush conversation between two gun-and-drug-dealing TSBD employees: "Let's meet at 4:30 in the Second Floor Nexus. You know, that strangely-shaped little hallway by the lunch room, the one that has three doors and kinda connects everything?"