Thomas Graves

Maybe Marina was an English-speaking spy with a "honey trap" prostitute background, assigned to "hook up with" Marguerite Oswald's son, Lee. http://oswaldsmother...-with-love.html Just sayin' --Tommy

"How do you know that the motorcycle cop she saw in front of the TSBD was Baker? Maybe she didn't get there until several minutes after the assassination, by which time another motorcycle policeman or motorcycle policemen might have appeared upon the scene." [T. Graves] Here is your first clue, Thomas. What do you usually find with a motorcycle cop? [bobby P.] My reply: Hi Bob! Gosh, beats the heck outta me, Bobby. Hmmm. A donut? Another motorcycle cop? --Tommy

Thanks, Barto, And thanks for isolating her photo and posting it here. I don't know how to do that. BTW, I noticed that her future husband, John Hawkins, is in there, too. Also a sophomore. --Tommy PS It looks like she eventually went by the name Joyce Bibler Hawkins, and her husband's full name was John Henry Hawkins. http://media.iadsnetwork.com/edition/1228/9931/a57a4b63-49d2-4866-8085-fc63f2e22b76.pdf Maybe they're still living in Russellville, Arkansas. They'd both be 82 years old now. --Tommy

Thanks, Barto, And thanks for isolating her photo and posting it here. I don't know how to do that. BTW, I noticed that her future husband, John Hawkins, is in there, too. Also a sophomore. --Tommy

Peggy Joyce Hawkins' maiden name was Peggy Joyce Bibler, born in Scottsville, Arkansas on September 6, 1934. Her photograph is in this 1956 college yearbook: http://library.atu.edu/research/Agricola/PDF/1954-03.pdf --Tommy

Do you know if Ruth spoke non-broken English with her acquaintances in Dallas, Gene? If she didn't, then I think that that, in addition to Oswald's denials that they lived on Neely, gives us compelling reason to believe that they indeed did not live there. Plus all the other evidence that points in that direction. Sandy, when John Armstrong wrote about Marina speaking "excellent" English, he was continuing rumors that somebody at a party in Minsk, Russia heard Marina speak English "perfectly fine." This was before she married LHO. It had nothing to do with Dallas. FURTHERMORE -- the Minsk rumor wasn't an official report. it was a personal opinion from a drinker at a party -- and in those social situations, if somebody can say, "Hello, how are you," in a foreign language, then that's a big deal. What did Marina actually say? Probably, "Hello, how are you? What are you drinking?" in a thick accent. But John Anderson was happy to suggest that Marina Oswald was reading the Congressional Record behind closed doors in a smoke-filled room. Until and unless we get an OFFICIAL account of Marina's English skills in Russia, naked rumors can fly like birds. They don't mean a thing. It wasn't neighbors in Dallas who said Marina spoke English -- it was some drunk in Minsk. Regards, --Paul Trejo Thanks Paul... that's precisely what I wanted to know. Unless, of course, Marina was an English-speaking spy with a prostitute background, assigned to "hook up with" Marguerite Oswald's son, Lee. http://oswaldsmother.blogspot.com/2009/10/from-marina-prusakova-with-love.html Just sayin' --Tommy sexed-up a bit and bumped

Hi Bob! What we have to go on is that the ladies in Mrs. Hawkins' group said that they were standing on Elm Street, about 150 feet west of the TSBD entrance. We also must bear in mind that Mrs. Hawkins herself said the President's car was less than 50 feet from her when he was shot. I presume that she's talking about the first shot that hit JFK and caused him to clutch at his throat with both hands. This first hit seems to correlate with Z-190. http://www.jfklancer.com/pdf/bj190.pdf Karan Hicks said the limo was directly in front of her when the first shot rang out (22H, 650; CE 1381). Since Karan Hicks was standing very near the Stemmons Freeway sign (as shown in the Zapruder film and other films / photographs), Hawkins must have been standing about 40 feet up the street from Hicks (and "Calvary" and Reed). --Tommy PS You say, "I would tend to think [Hawkins] would be closer to the TSBD entrance." Closer than what, Bob? Closer than about 150 feet to the west of it? That's not close enough for your theory-in-progress to work? And what makes you think that "the retaining wall" Hawkins took refuge behind was the short wall across Elm Street Extension from the TSBD? Because it "works" with your theory-in-progress? How do you know that the motorcycle cop she saw in front of the TSBD was Baker? Maybe she didn't get there until several minutes after the assassination, by which time another motorcycle policeman or motorcycle policemen might have appeared upon the scene. And what about those street lights? The two most obvious ones are the ones visible in the illustration I posted, aren't they? I mean, they're not hidden by a bunch of oak trees, nor are they masquerading as a traffic signal / traffic sign. Bear in mind that hard Hat Man Millican was standing near the upper of the two street lights I'm talking about, and that he was captured in Altgens 6 with a bunch Black women lining the sidewalk between him and the "island" on the corner. So Caucasian Hawkins and her four white lady friends (making a group of five white females, altogether, plus Hawkins' four-year-old son) must have been down the sidewalk (you know, in the direction of the Trip;e Underpass?) from Millican, and unfortunately were not "captured" in Croft's famous photograph, nor in Altgens 6. In the Willis photo, below, disregard the circled-in-red "Black Dog Man" for the moment, but please do note blond-haired Karan Hicks standing "under" the Stemmons Freeway sign, between Carolyn Reed and "Gloria Calvary." Peggy Joyce Hawkins was probably 40 feet up the sidewalk from Hicks. Augmented yet again and bumped for Bobby Prudhomme.

Hi Bob! What we have to go on is that the ladies in her group said that they were standing on Elm Street, about 150 feet west of the TSBD entrance. We also must bear in mind that Mrs. Hawkins herself said the President's car was less than 50 feet from her when he was shot. I presume that she's talking about the first shot that hit JFK and caused him to clutch at his throat with both hands. This first hit seems to correlate with Z-190. http://www.jfklancer.com/pdf/bj190.pdf Karan Hicks said the limo was directly in front of her when the first shot rang out (22H, 650; CE 1381). Since Karan Hicks was standing very near the Stemmons Freeway sign (as shown in the Zapruder film and other films / photographs), Hawkins must have been standing about 40 feet up the street from her (and "Calvary" and Reed). --Tommy PS You say, "I would tend to think [Hawkins] would be closer to the TSBD entrance." Closer than what, Bob? Closer than about 150 feet to the west of it? That's not close enough for your theory-in-progress to work? And what makes you think that "the retaining wall" Hawkins took refuge behind was the short wall across Elm Street Extension from the TSBD? Because it "works" with your theory-in-progress? How do you know that the motorcycle cop she saw in front of the TSBD was Baker? Maybe she didn't get there until several minutes after the assassination, by which time another motorcycle policeman or motorcycle policemen might have appeared upon the scene. And what about those street lights? The two most obvious ones are the ones visible in the illustration I posted, aren't they? I mean, they're not hidden by a bunch of oak trees, nor are they masquerading as a traffic signal / traffic sign. Bear in mind that hard Hat Man Millican was standing near the upper of the two street lights I'm talking about, and that he was captured in Altgens 6 with a bunch Black women lining the sidewalk between him and the "island" on the corner. So white Hawkins and her group of white lady friends must have been down the sidewalk (you know, in the direction of the Trip;e Underpass) from Millican, and unfortunately were not "captured" in Croft's famous photograph. In the Willis photo, below, disregard the circled-in-red "Black Dog Man" for the moment, but please do note blond-haired Karan Hicks standing "under" the Stemmons Freeway sign, between Carolyn Reed and "Gloria Calvary." Peggy Joyce Hawkins was probably 40 feet up the sidewalk from Hicks.

Hi Bob, 1 ) The author of the article was talking about a group of witnesses who were "between the light poles" on Elm Street, as opposed two two other groups of witnesses who were "near the Stemmon's Freeway sign," and "half way to the overpass," respectively The task for us, Bobby, is to find this group of five white witnesses who were standing between the light poles and which group was comprised of ladies Clay, Hendrix, Williams, Dickerson, and, of course, our Peggy Joyce Hawkins (and her four-year-old son, John). 2 ) Peggy Joyce Hawkin's husband's co-workers said they were standing on Elm Street, "about 150 feet west from the TSBD entrance," in their FBI statements. And here's another clue for you, Bobby: Peggy Joyce Hawkins said in her FBI statement that the President's car was less than 50 feet from her when he was shot. What do you take to mean by "the retaining wall"? Where was "the retaining wall"? Could "retaining wall" have been Mrs. Hawkins' expression for the concrete structure up on the Grassy Knoll? Please note the ladies and the boy in the bottom photo. No, I'm anything about Calvery here... Come to think of it, the "retaining wall" must have been pretty darn tall for her to think it would provide her and her son protection from gunfire. Or did she and her son "hit the ground" behind some little knee-high thang much closer to the TSBD, instead? --Tommy edited and bumped for Robert Prudhomme Edit: This illustration shows the placement of the two street lights on Elm Street. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/plazao.jpg

Double post --Tommy

Well, Thomas, Ms. Hawkins was obviously paying attention, and saw a motorcycle cop in front of the TSBD; even when he was not running and long after he was supposedly out there. Care to address that for a minute? How many of these witnesses on the concrete island, the Elm St. extension and the sidewalk in front of the TSBD were called to testify to the WC? Hi Bob, As far as where Mrs. John Hawkins (Peggy Joyce Hawkins) was standing during the motorcade, the following is from an article titled "Follow-up and Continuation to First Shot / First Hit Circa Z-190" by Douglas Desalles, M.D. http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/D%20Disk/DeSalles%20Douglas%20MD/Item%2001.pdf "Let us identify some witnesses on film. There are several clumps on Elm Street. Identifying them would help immensely. Three groups come to mind whose identification would suddenly establish better positions for 13 people. I. 'Between the light poles' there were five from the Allyn-Bacon Publishing Co in the TSBD: Mrs Peggy Joyce Hawkins [and her 4-year-old son, John], Mrs Billie P. Clay, Miss Georgia Ruth Hendrix, Mary Williams, and Mary Dickerson. 2. 'Near the Stemmons Freeway sign' there was a Dallas Morning News group: Ann Donaldson. Mary Woodward. Maggie Brown and Miss Aurelia Alonzo. 3. 'Half way to the overpass' there were employees of the South-Western Publishing Co (TSBD: Mrs. Gloria Calverly. Miss Karen Westbrook. Carol Reed and Mrs. Karen Hicks." FWIW, Here's Mrs. Billie P. Clay's FBI statement, which mentions Mrs. John Hawkins and her young son, John: https://books.google.com/books?id=pbdFAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA1444&dq=%22georgia+ruth+hendrix%22+%22Mrs.+john+hawkins%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj0mpbGzsTKAhUY72MKHcYmD6wQ6AEIHTAA#v=onepage&q=%22georgia%20ruth%20hendrix%22%20%22Mrs.%20john%20hawkins%22&f=false And here's Miss. Georgia Ruth Hendrix's statement, which also mentions Mrs. John Hawkins and her young son, John. Note that both statements say they were standing on Elm Street about 150 west from the TSBD entrance. https://books.google.com/books?id=pbdFAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA1452&lpg=PA1452&dq=%22john+hawkins%22+%22411+elm%22&source=bl&ots=MkMgiIsowb&sig=FZT8S3Xg7wZlV8CUX9VL5B17hZo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZxrCRv8TKAhVB_GMKHX6KDN0Q6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=%22john%20hawkins%22%20%22411%20elm%22&f=false --Tommy PS Roberdeau has Hawkins just below the big green circle with the red stripe on his map (click on the top map): http://i.imgur.com/QcAKTOp.gif edited and bumped for Robert Prudhomme

Well, Thomas, Ms. Hawkins was obviously paying attention, and saw a motorcycle cop in front of the TSBD; even when he was not running and long after he was supposedly out there. Care to address that for a minute? How many of these witnesses on the concrete island, the Elm St. extension and the sidewalk in front of the TSBD were called to testify to the WC? Hi Bob, As far as where Mrs. Hawkins was standing during the motorcade, the following is from an article titled "Follow-up and Continuation to First Shot / First Hit Circa Z-190" by Douglas Desalles, M.D. http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/D%20Disk/DeSalles%20Douglas%20MD/Item%2001.pdf "Let us identify some witnesses on film. There are several clumps on Elm Street. Identifying them would help immensely. Three groups come to mind whose identification would suddenly establish better positions for 13 people. I. 'Between the light poles' there were five from the Allyn-Bacon Publishing Co in the TSBD: Mrs Peggy Joyce Hawkins [and her 4-year-old son, John], Mrs Billie P. Clay, Miss Georgia Ruth Hendrix, Mary Williams, and Mary Dickerson. 2. 'Near the Stemmons Freeway sign' there was a Dallas Morning News group: Ann Donaldson. Mary Woodward. Maggie Brown and Miss Aurelia Alonzo. 3. 'Half way to the overpass' there were employees of the South-Western Publishing Co (TSBD: Mrs. Gloria Calverly. Miss Karen Westbrook. Carol Reed and Mrs. Karen Hicks." Here's Mrs. Billie P. Clay's FBI statement, which mentions Mrs. John Hawkins: https://books.google.com/books?id=pbdFAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA1444&dq=%22georgia+ruth+hendrix%22+%22Mrs.+john+hawkins%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj0mpbGzsTKAhUY72MKHcYmD6wQ6AEIHTAA#v=onepage&q=%22georgia%20ruth%20hendrix%22%20%22Mrs.%20john%20hawkins%22&f=false And here's Miss. Georgia Ruth Hendrix's statement, which also mentions Mrs. John Hawkins. Note that both statements say they were standing on Elm Street, about 150 from the TSBD. https://books.google.com/books?id=pbdFAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA1452&lpg=PA1452&dq=%22john+hawkins%22+%22411+elm%22&source=bl&ots=MkMgiIsowb&sig=FZT8S3Xg7wZlV8CUX9VL5B17hZo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZxrCRv8TKAhVB_GMKHX6KDN0Q6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=%22john%20hawkins%22%20%22411%20elm%22&f=false --Tommy

Do you know if Ruth spoke non-broken English with her acquaintances in Dallas, Gene? If she didn't, then I think that that, in addition to Oswald's denials that they lived on Neely, gives us compelling reason to believe that they indeed did not live there. Plus all the other evidence that points in that direction. Sandy, when John Armstrong wrote about Marina speaking "excellent" English, he was continuing rumors that somebody at a party in Minsk, Russia heard Marina speak English "perfectly fine." This was before she married LHO. It had nothing to do with Dallas. FURTHERMORE -- the Minsk rumor wasn't an official report. it was a personal opinion from a drinker at a party -- and in those social situations, if somebody can say, "Hello, how are you," in a foreign language, then that's a big deal. What did Marina actually say? Probably, "Hello, how are you? What are you drinking?" in a thick accent. But John Anderson was happy to suggest that Marina Oswald was reading the Congressional Record behind closed doors in a smoke-filled room. Until and unless we get an OFFICIAL account of Marina's English skills in Russia, naked rumors can fly like birds. They don't mean a thing. It wasn't neighbors in Dallas who said Marina spoke English -- it was some drunk in Minsk. Regards, --Paul Trejo Thanks Paul... that's precisely what I wanted to know. Unless, of course, Marina was an English-speaking spy with a prostitute background, assigned to "hook up with" Marguerite Oswald's son, Lee. http://oswaldsmother.blogspot.com/2009/10/from-marina-prusakova-with-love.html Just sayin' --Tommy

Sandy, My point was that nobody but Truly, Lovelady/Shelley, and Saunders said they saw Baker running, period, which suggests that very few people were paying attention to what was going on around them there on the "island," in the Elm Street Extension, on the sidewalk in front of the TSBD, and on the TSBD front steps. Clearly, obviously, they were paying more attention to the cars and motorcycles (with sirens on?) speeding down Elm Street, and to what was going on down there on the Grassy Knoll. You know, photographers taking pictures of spectators who had thrown themselves on the ground, etc? Robert's argument that Pauline Saunder's FBI statement was "cooked" is based on the unfortunate fact that it doesn't jibe with his theory-in-progress, and because it didn't have Saunder's signature on it. I tried to show him that what we were looking at was just an unsigned copy of her signed statement, but it was like trying to make a horse drink after you've led it to water. --Tommy

Congratulations on being right about the Baker distraction/pause (whatever you want to call it) Robert. For the record and FWIW, I still contend that the film (Darnell?) shows Baker changing course about 18 feet before reaching the TSBD steps, obviously distracted by something. Thanks for that, Sandy. Unfortunately, Peggy Joyce Hawkins' statement (wonder if she is related to Sadie Hawkins) does not go into a lot of detail, other than to say there was a motorcycle cop in front of the TSBD "at that time" and that she "heard some remarks over his radio". As all of the film footages seem to show only one motorcycle in front of the TSBD, and we assume the motorcycle belongs to Baker, would we also be correct in assuming the motorcycle cop Ms. Hawkins refers to is Baker? And, can we also assume that being in front of the TSBD "at that time" means Baker was standing still on the sidewalk? This hardly seems to be the way one would describe a man running flat out into a building. However, there is more to her statement. First, she tells us she had her small child with her. Next, she tells us she walked back to the front of the TSBD. From her FBI statement: "She stated she stayed behind the retaining wall until she realized there would be no more shots and then walked back to the front of the TSBD building. She said that a motorcycle police officer was in front of the building at this time and that she heard over his radio some remarks about the railroad yards near the building." As the retaining wall is also in front of the TSBD, I believe we can all agree that Ms. Hawkins meant the front steps of the TSBD when she stated she walked back "to the front of the TSBD building". I think we can also agree that "at this time" refers to the time she arrived at the steps. Does anyone see a woman with a small child in front of the TSBD steps in any of the film footages? There is no small child, so no Peggy Hawkins. Unlike Baker, she wasn't in a hurry to get to the TSBD. If the officer is Baker, clearly he didn't run up those steps that he was headed for at full speed in the film. He could have run up later... who knows. But not then. As you've said, beside Shelley and Lovelady, only one person (Pauline Saunders) said she saw him run up the stairs, and her testimony is questionable. Nobody else noticed Baker running in. Maybe he walked in and that's why he wasn't noticed. Or maybe he went in later, after the employees had gone inside. Maybe when he went in, Pauline Saunders was the only one still outside, thus explaining her testimony. But the important thing is that Baker didn't go in right away. Sandy, Clearly ??? LOL You gotta be kiddin' ! Excellent point, though, about nobody's even noticing Baker's running towards the TSBD from his motorcycle, although we know that he did, thanks to Couch and Darnell. With all those people milling around, would you really expect Baker to run a straight line? I don't see him change his direction much, if any, anyway How many degrees do you think he changes his route near "Jumbo"? Ten? Fifteen? Forty-five? Since Baker is only in front of the center of the steps when the clip ends, how do you know he didn't run (or walk) up them instead of past them? Also: Why do you say Pauline Saunders' testimony is "questionable"? Because we're reading an unsigned copy of her signed FBI statement? --Tommy Bumped for Sandy Larsen.

Congratulations on being right about the Baker distraction/pause (whatever you want to call it) Robert. For the record and FWIW, I still contend that the film (Darnell?) shows Baker changing course about 18 feet before reaching the TSBD steps, obviously distracted by something. Thanks for that, Sandy. Unfortunately, Peggy Joyce Hawkins' statement (wonder if she is related to Sadie Hawkins) does not go into a lot of detail, other than to say there was a motorcycle cop in front of the TSBD "at that time" and that she "heard some remarks over his radio". As all of the film footages seem to show only one motorcycle in front of the TSBD, and we assume the motorcycle belongs to Baker, would we also be correct in assuming the motorcycle cop Ms. Hawkins refers to is Baker? And, can we also assume that being in front of the TSBD "at that time" means Baker was standing still on the sidewalk? This hardly seems to be the way one would describe a man running flat out into a building. However, there is more to her statement. First, she tells us she had her small child with her. Next, she tells us she walked back to the front of the TSBD. From her FBI statement: "She stated she stayed behind the retaining wall until she realized there would be no more shots and then walked back to the front of the TSBD building. She said that a motorcycle police officer was in front of the building at this time and that she heard over his radio some remarks about the railroad yards near the building." As the retaining wall is also in front of the TSBD, I believe we can all agree that Ms. Hawkins meant the front steps of the TSBD when she stated she walked back "to the front of the TSBD building". I think we can also agree that "at this time" refers to the time she arrived at the steps. Does anyone see a woman with a small child in front of the TSBD steps in any of the film footages? There is no small child, so no Peggy Hawkins. Unlike Baker, she wasn't in a hurry to get to the TSBD. If the officer is Baker, clearly he didn't run up those steps that he was headed for at full speed in the film. He could have run up later... who knows. But not then. As you've said, beside Shelley and Lovelady, only one person (Pauline Saunders) said she saw him run up the stairs, and her testimony is questionable. Nobody else noticed Baker running in. Maybe he walked in and that's why he wasn't noticed. Or maybe he went in later, after the employees had gone inside. Maybe when he went in, Pauline Saunders was the only one still outside, thus explaining her testimony. But the important thing is that Baker didn't go in right away. Sandy, Clearly ??? LOL You gotta be kiddin' ! Excellent point, though, about nobody's even noticing Baker's running towards the TSBD from his motorcycle, although we know that he did, thanks to Couch and Darnell. With all those people milling around, would you really expect Baker to run a straight line? I don't see him change his direction much, if any, anyway How many degrees do you think he changes his route near "Jumbo"? Ten? Fifteen? Forty-five? Since Baker is only in front of the center of the steps when the clip ends, how do you know he didn't run (or walk) up them instead of past them? Also: Why do you say Pauline Saunders' testimony is "questionable"? Because we're reading an unsigned copy of her signed FBI statement? --Tommy

bumped for Sandy Larsen, who apparently missed it Jesis Maria

Sandy, Not that it matters, but which "running girl" are you talking about? The person I've been calling Running Woman who is running from left to right and is wearing a white sweater / blouse and a black dress? Or somebody else? --Tommy

Bumped because it's kinda hard to find, and this way you won't have to go to that evil evil "disinfo" website, jfkassassinationforum.com , to find it. Might get cooties there. Enjoy. --Tommy Bumping this thread for Sandy Larsen. Sandy, when exactly does Baker "abruptly change direction?" As he's passing behind Truly? (the short, suit-and-fedora wearing guy who turns to watch him run past)? Right after he's passed behind Truly? As he's passing behind "Jumbo" (no suit, no hat)? Or does Baker change direction only as he's jumping onto the sidewalk from the street? See the Darnell gif in post # 42, this page. --Tommy

Congratulations on being right about the Baker distraction/pause (whatever you want to call it) Robert. For the record and FWIW, I still contend that the film (Darnell?) shows Baker changing course about 18 feet before reaching the TSBD steps, obviously distracted by something. Sandy, Obviously? Whenever a researcher or a student says "obviously," my non-sodomite-alien antenes go up and start wiggling around, big time. How do you know Baker didn't change his course slightly in order to give himself a better shot (pardon the pun) up the steps? How do I know? Because I studied the film clip. Baker makes a very abrupt change in direction just as he passes behind the tall guy (Truly?), and a large change at that. His new path is nearly perpendicular to that of the girl who is running toward the right side of the doorway. He crosses her path, and that proves that he was then headed somewhere to the right of the doorway. Maybe some day I will find the time to extract frames and draw lines for those who can't see what I see. But for now I'm satisfied with my analysis and others can believe what they want. Relax, Sandy. I didn't say Baker didn't change his course. I said it's possible he changed his course in order to give him a "better shot" up the steps. That's obviously a possibility. EDIT: Another thing. People can't normally distracted by anything when they're running full-bore towards something over a short distance. I would imagine that if they are distracted by something while running like that, they slow down a bit (or even come to a complete stop) while deciding whether or not to continue on to their goal, or to run towards the distraction, instead. Well, Baker does make a sudden change without slowing down a great deal. I'm sure his path there forms is a rather large arc (several feet in radius). It's hard to tell because he goes behind Truly when he's turning. What makes you think he slowed down at all? Can you see him slowing down in Darnell? --Tommy PS Truly was not the tall guy. Truly was short and was wearing a dark suit and fedora that day. PPS The girl is running toward the right side of the doorway?

Congratulations on being right about the Baker distraction/pause (whatever you want to call it) Robert. For the record and FWIW, I still contend that the film (Darnell?) shows Baker changing course about 18 feet before reaching the TSBD steps, obviously distracted by something. Sandy, Obviously? Whenever a researcher or a student says "obviously," my non-sodomite-alien antenes go up and start wiggling around, big time. How do you know Baker didn't change his course slightly in order to give himself a better shot (pardon the pun) up the steps? How do I know? Because I studied the film clip. Baker makes a very abrupt change in direction just as he passes behind the tall guy (Truly?), and a large change at that. His new path is nearly perpendicular to that of the girl who is running to toward the right side of the doorway. He crosses her path, and that proves that he was then headed somewhere to the right of the doorway. Maybe some day I will find the time to extract frames and draw lines for those who can't see what I see. But for now I'm satisfied with my analysis and others can believe what they want. Relax, Sandy. I didn't say Baker didn't change his course. I said it's possible he changed his course in order to give him a "better shot" up the steps. That's obviously a possibility. EDIT: Another thing. People can't normally distracted by anything when they're running full-bore towards something. I would imagine that if they are distracted by something while running like that, they slow down a bit (or even come to a complete stop) while deciding whether or not to continue on to their goal, or to run towards the distraction, instead. Well Baker does make a sudden change without slowing down a great deal. I'm sure his path there forms is a rather large arc (several feet in radius). It's hard to tell because he goes behind Truly when he's turning. What makes you think he slowed down at all? Can you see him slowing down in Darnell? --Tommy

Congratulations on being right about the Baker distraction/pause (whatever you want to call it) Robert. For the record and FWIW, I still contend that the film (Darnell?) shows Baker changing course about 18 feet before reaching the TSBD steps, obviously distracted by something. Sandy, Obviously? Whenever a researcher or a student says "obviously," my non-sodomite-alien antenes go up and start wiggling around, big time. How do you know Baker didn't change his course slightly in order to give himself a better shot (pardon the pun) up the steps? That's obviously a possibility. EDIT: Another thing. People don't normally get distracted by anything when they're running full-bore towards something over a short distance I would imagine that if they are distracted by something while running like that, they slow down a bit (or even come to a complete stop) while deciding whether or not to continue on to their goal, or to run towards the distraction, instead. --Tommy

As does the fact that Paine never admitted moving them in. If she did, I can't see any reason for her to deny it. Did she actually deny it when-and-if she was asked, or did she (possibly) just fail to mention it? --Tommy

Bill, Since I don't have a copy of the tape and didn't make my own transcript of the original when I sent it to you some three years ago, I will need to listen to the interview again before I can correct any transcripts of it. So here's an idea, Bill. Send me the original and I will have a copy made of it, at my own expense (about $20), and send the original right back to you with an accurate transcript of the interview, okay? I PROMISE. I know you have lots of "irons in the fire," as always, and that it may take you another year or so to get around to having the tape dubbed and sending it to me, not to mention your having to make another labor-intensive transcript for me to correct, you know, for all the mumbling-and-Texas dialect-based “spelling errors” and omissions, etc. That's why I suggest that you entrust “the project” to me. I'm just a retired surf bum. I got all the time in the world. --Tommy PS To answer your question re: my current "research," all I've done recently is to try to convince other members here that the dark-complected, light-fingered "Neck Scratcher" in Jim Doyle's film is Dave Morales (or perhaps Nestor Izquierdo). That and trying to convince Greg Parker to incorporate Douglas Caddy's sodomite aliens into his L. Robert Castorr / Radonics theory... Bumped. For Bill Kelly, and the Forum, to notice. Also: "Forum member William Kelly is unable to receive any new messages."

Bill, Since I don't have a copy of the tape and didn't make my own transcript of the original when I sent it to you some three years ago, I will need to listen to the interview again before I can correct any transcripts of it. So here's an idea, Bill. Send me the original and I will have a copy made of it, at my own expense (about $20), and send the original right back to you with an accurate transcript of the interview, okay? I PROMISE. I know you have lots of "irons in the fire," as always, and that it may take you another year or so to get around to having the tape dubbed and sending it to me, not to mention your having to make another labor-intensive transcript for me to correct, you know, for the mumbling-and-Texas dialect-based “spelling errors” and omissions, etc. That's why I suggest that you entrust “the project” to me. I'm just a retired surf bum. I got all the time in the world. --Tommy PS To answer your question re: my current "research," all I've done recently is to try to convince other members here that dark, light-fingered "Neck Scratcher" in Jim Doyle's film is Dave Morales (or perhaps Nestor Izquierdo). That and trying to convince Greg Parker to incorporate Douglas Caddy's sodomite aliens into his L. Robert Castorr / Radonics theory...