Thomas Graves

Different child now. OK, Bob? The child wearing the red cap and being held by the woman in this Towner frame could very well be Johnny Hawkins, and the woman could very well be his mother, Peggy Joyce Hawkins. Credit: Robin Unger http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20032 --Tommy

Well, Bob, that's not exactly what I said now is it. I pointed out a child to you in Altgens 6. (I don't know whose child it is, Bob.) Then I said that if you follow my "freeze frame" instructions, you can see the same child in Weigman, right before Weigman starts quickly panning back to the right. Edited: That's not Millican standing next to the child. My bad. But the child I'm talking about is not on the steps. It's on the "island." --Tommy

Hi Bobby! I'm surprised you haven't noticed the four-year-old child shading it's eyes while watching the motorcade just below and to the right of the red number "10" in the black-and-white Altgen's 6 blowup, above. The child is also visible at the far left edge of the Weigman film for a split second (just before Weigman starts "wildly" panning back to the right), but unfortunately the child appears to be wearing a dress. Perhaps you should check it out. Warning: You'll have to do a lot of very precise "click-click" freeze-framing to catch a frame of the child that isn't blurry. Also notice (in the Weigman film) that Hard Hat Millican is standing just to the left of the child. --Tommy PS The youngster you're probably thinking about down by "Gloria Calvery" was the Chisms' boy, who can be seen standing near the curb, close to his parents in at least one photo or film taken from the other side of Dealey Plaza. Bumped for Bobby Prudhomme. Hi, Bobby! Please read the above post in green.

Well, some of you guys are looking for SPY FICTION. That seems to be your real purpose -- not really Solving the JFK Murder. Using the principle of Occam's Razor, you don't need Marina Oswald in 1959 for a theory that the KGB assassinated JFK in 1963. But hey, you guys want to sell books, right? And if this fiction sells, then why not, right? IMHO, though, it's just STUPID. There's no solid evidence there, and you're massaging unreliable verbal accounts in bits and pieces, from "witnesses" never screened, to whip up commercial interest in pulp fiction. It's useless. No wonder the CT community has such a low reputation in this century. Regards, --Paul Trejo Dear Paul, Maybe the CIA or FBI "turned" Marina after she arrived in the U.S.? Because they knew she was KGB? --Tommy I'm convinced, Tommy, that you never post anything serious anymore. You're always going for the laugh. May I suggest a hobby in stand-up comedy? I'm sure there are workshops in your area. Regards, --Paul Trejo Uhhh... I was serious, actually, Paul. Can't deal with it? --Tommy

Terry, Thanks for the plug! --Tommy

Robin, This is a problem we've been trying to solve for about half a year now. Where have you been? --Tommy PS Alonzo is labeled incorrectly in your photo. Alonzo is the woman in the dark dress to the right of "Donaldson." Alonzo is the girl in the lower right hand corner of page 92 in this yearbook (go back one page): http://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth61030/m1/96/ I don't know if the woman in the reddish dress and white blouse is Woodward. Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe that's Gloria Calvery or Peggy Hawkins, instead. Or maybe not. Maybe it's ... Mary Woodward.

simplified and bumped You have the eyes of an eagle, Tommy. It sure looks like a child. But I have a hard time believing a mother would allow her child to wander around right after watching somebody get shot. Or, on second thought, could that "child" be Cheryl McKinnon (q.v.) ... uhhh ... Doris Mumford (q.v.) ? http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20382 Naw, too far away. --Tommy PS Regarding the mysterious Peggy Hawkins, I couldn't have said the following any better myself. -- Peggy Hawkins piques my interest because there are still so many unanswered questions in the wake of her one interview with the FBI. We still don’t know whether it was her or her husband who worked for Allyn and Bacon Publishing Company in the TSBD; why she never met up with her husband, John, to watch the motorcade, as she planned to do; why John wasn’t interviewed by the FBI to determine if he watched the motorcade, despite not meeting up with his wife; and why Hawkins failed to mention she was standing with her four-year-old son, John, Jr. -- author Craig Ciccone http://www.jfklancer.com/ciccone/faq.html Not to nitpick, but the report, written in the third person, does say that Mrs. Hawkins had her "small child" with her.

simplified and bumped You have the eyes of an eagle, Tommy. It sure looks like a child. But I have a hard time believing a mother would allow her child to wander around right after watching somebody get shot. Yes, especially considering Mrs. Hawkins stated she and her child were hiding behind a retaining wall immediately after the shooting. Sorry, guys. I'm trying. I figure if we can find some high school, college, wedding, etc. photos of the four ladies Hawkins was supposedly with, we'll have an idea what they looked like and might be able to spot them on Elm Street. Apparently Mary Lea Williams (born 1904) was also known as Mary Lea Bisland / Manie [sic] Bisland at one time. Don't know if Williams was her maiden name or her married name. I'm running into a lot of dead ends so far on both Mary Lea Williams and Mary Sue Dickerson (born in 1931; married Albert D. Dickerson in 1948; divorced in 1974). Haven't done anything yet regarding Billie Clay or Georgiana Hendrix ... --Tommy

Who is the person marked as no. 2? [...] --Ian Lloyd Ian, I believe that's the woman I helped Prudhomme to finally "see" in the Altgens 6 photo, almost completely hidden behind Alonzo. At the time I was speculating that she (i.e., your # 2) might be Gloria Calvery. https://willyloman.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/altgens-6-ue-large-best-proc1.jpg --Tommy PS The interesting thing is that in a different film or photograph taken a few seconds after the assassination, there seems to be a young child standing on the grass near the sidewalk while # 2 is standing nearby with her back to the camera, looking towards the Grassy Knoll (or watching the limo disappear). When I have time I'll find that frame or photo and post it here. Edit: See bottom photo, below. Note that your # 2, labeled as "Calvery?" (# 4), above, is wearing a reddish colored dress. (See Chris Davidson's post # 11 this thread: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=22197&hl=alonzo and click on the image there to enlarge it tremendously.) Here she is again, standing to the left of Hard Hat Millican and with Alonzo in the dark dress behind her and to our left (disregard the numbers and the black oblong): Finally, here she is in the center of the photo, standing on the sidewalk near Millican and looking towards the Grassy Knoll. Is that a partially-obscured small child on the grass in front of her? simplified and bumped

Who is the person marked as no. 2? Has the person marked as no. 3 got an extra pair of legs? Or maybe it's just my eyesight fooling me... Ian, I believe that's the woman I helped Prudhomme to finally "see" in the Altgens 6 photo, almost completely hidden behind Alonzo. At the time I was speculating that she (i.e., your # 2) might be Gloria Calvery. https://willyloman.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/altgens-6-ue-large-best-proc1.jpg --Tommy PS The interesting thing is that in a different film or photograph taken a few seconds after the assassination, there seems to be a young child standing on the grass near the sidewalk while your # 2 is standing nearby but in the street (Elm Street), watching the limo disappear through the triple underpass. When I have time I'll find that frame or photo and post it here. Note that your # 2, labeled as "Calvery?" (# 4), above, is wearing a reddish colored dress. (Click to enlarge) Here she is again, standing to the left of Hard Hat Millican and with Alonzo in the dark dress behind her and to our left: Finally, here she is standing on the sidewalk and looking towards the Grassy Knoll. Is that a partially-obscured small child on the grass in front of her?

Assassinations go better with Dr. Pepper? (A question rather than a statement in order to avoid a lawsuit) --Tommy

Josh, This is from post # 137 on the Where Was Roy Truly Right After The Last Shot Was Fired? thread: Continued...... again.... Now for Judy Johnson! This photo was given to "Dustin", a friend of the family, to make public - he's not a member here so he chased me down at ROKC and posted it there in my PM/IR620 thread, unbeknownst to me till last night since I've been busy with other things and have not posted or checked things over there for some time now. In the meantime a couple of days ago I researched Judy Johnson and found her yearbook photos and made a collage of photos I snipped from her Sr. yearbook (1962) - the TSBD was her "first job". He ["Dustin"] also related some very interesting info from Judy and her daughter about what she experienced that day and in the aftermath - eg: the way the FBI questioned her and TOLD her just exactly how many shots there were (just ONE!) when she said "three", and how Buell Frazier "is a l*i*a*r" (we are waiting for "Dustin" to correspond with her and to find out exactly what she meant by that. In general? About the assassination? PM? etc - I will post it when I find out). Circa: early 1970's: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=22100&page=10&hl=%2Bjohnson+%2Bfrazier#entry314613 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [emphasis added by T. Graves] --Tommy So I stand corrected. Apparently neither Judy nor her daughter said that Frazier was a xxxx. It's a bit confusing. Someone needs to follow up with Judy, her daughter, and / or "Dustin."

Who is the person marked as no. 2? Has the person marked as no. 3 got an extra pair of legs? Or maybe it's just my eyesight fooling me... Ian, I believe that's the woman I helped Prudhomme to finally "see" in the Altgens 6 photo, almost completely hidden behind Alonzo. At the time I was speculating that she (i.e., your # 2) might be Gloria Calvery. https://willyloman.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/altgens-6-ue-large-best-proc1.jpg --Tommy PS The interesting thing is that in a different film or photograph taken a few seconds after the assassination, there seems to be a young child standing on the grass near the sidewalk while your # 2 is standing nearby but in the street (Elm Street), watching the limo disappear through the triple underpass. When I have time I'll find that frame or photo and post it here.

Bumping this thread for Bobby Prudhomme, who is still trying to find little Johnny Hawkins. Please note that Jack meant to say Willis 5. --Tommy

I just realized that the couple of Dr. Pepper bottles in the Coca-Cola "empties" box in the second floor lunchroom must have been put there by people who had bought them on the first floor and then taken them up to the second floor to drink in the lunchroom. D'oh. --Tommy

Barto, Interesting. The fact that Lovelady got his "coke" from an upper floor, not the first floor or the basement. (If he's telling the truth, he must have been the second floor lunchroom.) The Dr. Pepper machine was on the first floor. I don't think it was possible to get a DP from the second floor lunchroom. The machine in the lunchroom was a brand-name Coca-Cola with a capital "C" aka Coke machine. The fact that the bottle on the steps was a Dr. Pepper bottle (I'm sure of it) would tend to support the conclusion that it was Oswald's. --Tommy Edit: Note the Dr. Pepper machine to the left of the white refrigerator.

That's a Dr. Pepper bottle on the steps. Just curious: Was Billy Lovelady known to drink DP? I have read that Dr. Pepper was Oswald's favorite soft drink ... (Thanks for the images, Barto.) --Tommy

Well, some of you guys are looking for SPY FICTION. That seems to be your real purpose -- not really Solving the JFK Murder. Using the principle of Occam's Razor, you don't need Marina Oswald in 1959 for a theory that the KGB assassinated JFK in 1963. But hey, you guys want to sell books, right? And if this fiction sells, then why not, right? IMHO, though, it's just STUPID. There's no solid evidence there, and you're massaging unreliable verbal accounts in bits and pieces, from "witnesses" never screened, to whip up commercial interest in pulp fiction. It's useless. No wonder the CT community has such a low reputation in this century. Regards, --Paul Trejo Dear Paul, Maybe the CIA or FBI "turned" Marina after she arrived in the good ol' U. S. of A.? Because they knew she was KGB? --Tommy

Barto, I didn't realize that. Thanks. It sounds like ol' Buell could use another polygraph test. Wasn't it assassination witness Judy Johnson, who, according to her daughter on this forum, called BWF a lyin' son of a gun, or words to that effect? Going from memory here. --Tommy

Hi Robert! I just now stumbled upon this FBI document regarding Pauline Sanders: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62319&relPageId=115&search=statement This document from the Special Agent in Charge of the Dallas FBI office points out to J. Edgar Hoover that Pauline Sanders had said (or someone had mistakenly written) "November 22, 1964" instead of "November 22, 1963" -- an obvious mistake -- in her original FBI statement. The important thing for us is that this 4/01/64 document says, "Mrs. Sanders has initialed such correction" and that the "Bureau [is] requested to correct its copies [plural] ..." My question to you, Robert, is: Why don't we see Pauline Sanders' initials (see above) on the 11/22/63 document that is available for us to view on the Internet? Answer: Because what we are looking at on the Internet is a copy, not the Dallas FBI original. Which would explain why it (the copy) wasn't signed or initialed by Sanders. She signed, and later initialed (see above), only the Dallas FBI original. --Tommy Edited and bumped for Robert Prudhomme

Thanks Chris - that's great. One thing I noticed is that there are 2 men we can see standing behind the 'Lovelady in a t-shirt guy'. One is quite small with no hat and one is almost as tall as "Lovelady" but with a hat. They are all standing very close together so if Lovelady is standing on something it must be quite small as the small guy walks quite closely behind Lovelady. That or it isn't Lovelady at all. Chris, I have to say I'm not having much luck making out the guy on the steps below PM. You guys have much better eyesight than me on this one. Bumped. Just for the heck of it. --Tommy PS: Vanessa, your "Lovelady in a [white] t-shirt guy" dude behind the "BOOKS" boxes in the gif isn't wearing just a white t-shirt. He's also wearing a slightly darker-appearing shirt over his white t-shirt (only "slightly" darker-appearing because of the harsh lighting conditions). https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwrExtVD005OQ1h5NjZUYjFXWkE/view?usp=sharing

You're right, Greg. Since it may have been in the government's hands at some point, it must have been altered to make it look like a woman who was really a man or vice versa, therefore it's totally unacceptable as evidence.. --Tommy

Jim, I'm too lazy right now. Gonna go play some online chess. Try typing the word "sideburns" into the search box. And / or the word "profile". Edit: Nope, that doesn't work. That thread must have been deleted. Oh well, I tried. No promises. Maybe that thread's been deleted due to all of the mud slinging that was going on... Good luck, --Tommy

Hi Bobby! I'm surprised you haven't noticed the four-year-old child shading it's eyes while watching the motorcade just below and to the right of the red number "10" in the black-and-white Altgen's 6 blowup, above. The child is also visible at the far left edge of the Weigman film for a split second (just before Weigman starts "wildly" panning back to the right), but unfortunately the child appears to be wearing a dress. Perhaps you should check it out. Warning: You'll have to do a lot of very precise "click-click" freeze-framing to catch a frame of the child that isn't blurry. Also notice (in the Weigman film) that Hard Hat Millican is standing just to the left of the child. --Tommy PS The youngster you're probably thinking about down by "Gloria Calvery" was the Chisms' boy, who can be seen standing near the curb, close to his parents in at least one photo or film taken from the other side of Dealey Plaza.

John, I've already shown that Prayer Person was a man. Unless, of course, it was a woman with sideburns. Unfortunately, it was on another thread, a controversial one started by Duncan McRae, and it involved a lot of patience and precise click-click" freeze-framing of a McRae-enlarged, slo-mo'd, and recursive gif of PP's upper body and head as, evidently unbeknownst to everyone here but I, Prayer Person quickly turns his head to his right (until it's in full profile for a split second), and then turns it back the other way. When his head is turned to his right, in full profile, you can see his sideburns. If you type the word "sideburns" into this forum's "search" box, you might be able to find the gif I'm talking about. --Tommy