Michael Crane

Not that many onlookers on the left or to the right to slow down and let the president give them a good look and or a wave.

I personally think that Kellerman is just as guilty as Greer when everything is said and done.

Oh man,

I can remember driving by an accident scene where the crash victims were still on sight.You could actually see the one guys foot turned completely the opposite way.There were also big giant blood clots that had hardened.This accident wasn't even close the president of the United States,and there is no way that I could ever forget how that twisted ankle/foot looked,especially after the guy looked at me straight in the eye.I could only imagine the trauma if it was the president of the United States.You just don't forget that stuff IMHO.

Let's go....time is ticking.

22 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Kathy has retired, for reasons unbeknownst to me.  I hope she is well, she helped me get back on the site when my laptop died and I had lost my password.

I was asked by Mark and Sandy to become an administrator, as a result.  I felt unqualified regarding my technical expertise, which I still do.  Though I consider it an honor to become so given the origin from John Simkin, James Gordon and more.  

You sir, seem a bit provocative in your nature, argumentative, a good reason to resign from having to deal with such.

But, a reason not to as well.  Four complaints in four days by you, about others.  Reason to wonder about motives?

He's basically a polluter,antagonizer & disrupter.

Keep it coming Keven,

I pick up little pieces of the puzzle with your posts.

Damn them unaltered JFK X-rays.

:-)

This poor guy has got a bat in his skull.

Sorry for the delay Pat.I'm not on this site as much as others.

Yes,I will dismiss them.Bowron was up close and had longer looks,but I also include others people testimony that corroborates nurse Bowron.There is entirely too much evidence at Parkland not to convince me.

All that dooky that happened after Parkland only complicates matters.

Paul O'Connor,James Jenkins & Richard Lipsey were three witnesses (along with Humes) that seen JFK's head first from when the towels were removed from his head.And you know as good as I,what O'Connor said about the condition of the head.

Too many witnesses seen JFK head wound at different times.That is why there is so much discrepancy between them.

37 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

I feel Robinson's recollection makes the most sense.

In my viewing of the Z film when slowed down, I saw an unusual and grossly uneven lifting of the top of JFK's skull in the micro-second of the bullet impact which imo clearly was depicting the breaking apart of the upper skull as Robinson described it's condition when he examined that area.

I still don't understand how anyone can see the Z film, and not see a blowout of skull bone above JFK's right ear. A huge "flap" which when blown out revealed pink tissue underneath.

It also looked to me that the enormous pink blood and tissue cloud that sprayed 6 ft high came from that blown out flap area.

Closest eye-witness to JFK's head shot ( just 10 feet away? ) was Bill Newman.

His description of JFK's right-side skull blowout matches the Z-film imo.

Hello Joe,

Let's try going over some things ok?....ok

It is a known FACT that nurse Bowron who literally washed JFK's hair had NO time manipulate any evidence,that's the bottom line.Along with other Parkland personnel observations.

Any other observations/evidence including the Zapruder film had time AFTER Parkland to be altered and or munipulated.

I know which one I'm going with.

Sandy,

While I'm thinking about it...this is a discussion forum and I would like to expand on my opinion.

JFK's body was brought in one time in a shipping casket and placed onto the autopsy table.

There were more casket entries,but they did not contain JFK.

The caskets...The bronze and the mahogany were brought to the morgue and placed in the cold room.

I'm not 100% certain that the mahogany casket was placed in the cold room.

I do speculate that the FBI entry and the MDW Honor Guard entry only brought the casket so far then were turned/held back as in denied access to the main room (didn't see JFK/ put on table)

It's my firm belief that the autopsy attendees in the gallery were let into the actual morgue (with tables) after JFK was placed on the table.

8 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

This is a Lifton/Horne theory that I -- after looking at the witness statements -- agree with.  I am not an expert on it and have forgotten who saw what, so I cannot defend it myself. Horne certainly could. And you can read what he has written on it if you want.

As I said, the body was brought in twice. There are corroborating witnesses to both entries, so there is no question that that happened.

The CASKET was actually brought in THREE times, and there were witnesses to all three entries. The men who carried the caskets in each time were different! As I recall, the military casket was brought in by the men-in-dark-suits who delivered it (at 6:30 PM). The decorative bronze casket was brought in by some of the techs and some other guys, Secret Service I believe (at something like 7:30 PM). The casket had to have been empty because the body was already inside the autopsy room at the time. But those carrying the casket thought the body was in it. The casket was left in the ante-room, and none of its pallbearers saw it being opened.

That casket had to have been secretly removed, including the body, because the third entry DID have witnesses who saw it being opened (at a little before 8:00 PM IIRC). This time the Honor Guard brought it in.

You likely would disagree with Lifton and Horne on this. But you would lose a debate with Horne. He knows all the testimony, and with help from Lifton's theory was able to reconcile all the conflicting, but corroborated, statements.

 

Sandy,I believe that yes,there were 3 casket entries,but they were not brought in next to the autopsy table.

The shipping casket was however brought into and sat down next to the autopsy table.

The other two were brought in and left in the cold/anterior room.

*Anybody that seen more than one casket entry and put on the autopsy table would scream bloody murder!!

**Jenkins finally opened up his mouth and without a doubt...would have described the body being put onto the autopsy table more than once.

*** I'm certainly curious of your witnesses to all 3 casket entries and actually taken out of the bronze casket?

****Once again,these are just my opinions....not facts.

Well,your last sentence said brain photos so...

I'll have to go back,because I believe that he said that he did not take those kind of views? Basilar views or whatever the hell kind of views they call them?

Patrick,Patrick,Patrick...

You are aware of the ARRB deposition of the photographer that said the photos in the archives are not his right?

Stringer right? or was it somebody else? I have no files saved on anything.It's all from memory.I do have some threads saved on a different forum that I can refer to about certain subjects.

17 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

So...they swapped out photos proving a shot came from the front for photos proving there were two shooters?

That's a really weird way of proving there weren't two shooters...

For whatever reason,I'm having trouble comprehending what you are asking.

What I'm saying is....bullets enter making a small hole or smaller hole than an exiting hole.

When you have the Grand Canyon entry wound looking you in the face...than it's easy to tell that the bullet wound was an exit wound which means a frontal shooter.

It's hard to convince the public of an entry wound in back of the head when it appears that he got hit by something the size of a rocket propelled grenade.

That's why we have a black blob on the Zapruder film an not a single legitimate back of the head photo or x-ray.

On 1/3/2024 at 6:19 PM, Jamey Flanagan said:

Yeah, I liked the 2 hour version but the 4 hour is more my style, lol! I literally cannot get enough JFK assassination content done well! I've been studying the assassination for around 35 years now and it's so elaborate and far reaching that even today I will still come across things I didn't know or have never heard before!

35 years is impressive.You might find some details that you didn't know about with Daniel Sheehan.He teaches a college class on the assassination.I'm not attached to him in any capacity.You said that you couldn't get enough.I think he has at least 19 episodes that you will have to look for.This is number 2.

Youtube) Romero Institute

Skip to 45:00+ if you want to.

But anybody that said Oswald was on the 6th floor was driven in a limo to and from the airport in a limousine,flown in 1st class,put up in a Hilton Hotel suite,and given a unlimited expense account.

No wonder there was a God damn order of silence for 15 years for autopsy/Navy personnel.

Almost a damn magic show with disappearing evidence.

13 hours ago, Keven Hofeling said:

They WERE all mistaken in precisely the same way, in that they all located the large avulsive wound in the occipital-parietal quadrant of the right side of the back of JFK's head, and there is no amount of hair splitting that you can do to change that fact Pat.

First of all, and as you well know, Dr. McClelland was mistaken as to the ENTRY WOUND in the head because Dr. Jenkins was taking JFK's pulse at his left temple and McClelland mistakenly believed that Jenkins was signaling that there was an entrance wound at the left temple (according to BOTH doctors).

It was getting late in the evening, Dallas time, but before I ended the interview. I reminded Dr. McClelland of the fact that in his Parkland Hospital admission note at 4:45 p.m. on the day of the assassination, he had written that the president died "from a gunshot wound of the left temple." "Yes," he said, "that was a mistake. I never saw any wound to the president's left temple. Dr. Jenkins had told me there was a wound there, though he later denied telling me this.

(Vincent Bugliosi, "Reclaiming History." p. 406)

"I'll tell you how that happened," Jenkins explained, "When Bob McClelland came into the room, he asked me, 'Where are his wounds?' And at that time I was operating a breathing bag with my right hand, and was trying to take the President's temporal pulse, and I had my finger on his left temple. Bob thought I pointed to the left temple as the wound.

(Gerald Posner, "Case Closed." p. 313)

And when Dr. Robert McClelland wrote the following words in his 4:45 PM Admission Note on 11/22/1963, "The cause of death was due to massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the left temple,''' it is clear McClelland was only talking about where he thought at the time the bullet had entered JFK's head. Your contention that the phrasing "of the left temple" somehow rules out his observation of the large occipital-parietal wound on the basis of your lay-perusing of medical journals is nothing less than absurd. I have seen "of" used by physicians to denote  entrance wounds many times, and your repeated assertions to the contrary are simply unconvincing. You should discontinue this slander of Dr. McClelland, and you should discontinue it now.

That being said, it is not just the testimony of the Parkland Trauma Team that provides solid evidentiary support for the location of the occipital-parietal wound, but Dealey Plaza witnesses such as Clint Hill, and Jacqueline Kennedy as well:

"Blood, brain matter, and bone fragments exploded from the back of the President's head. The President's blood, parts of his skull, bits of his brain were splattered all over me -- on my face, my clothes, in my hair." 

(Secret Service Agent Clint Hill in his 2012 book "Mrs. Kennedy and Me: An Intimate Memoir")

"I was trying to hold his hair on. From the front there was nothing -- I suppose there must have been. But from the back you could see, you know, you were trying to hold his hair on, and his skull on."

(Jackie Kennedy's Warren Commission Testimony, June 5, 1964)

Also supporting the existence of the occipital-parietal wound is Bethesda autopsy testimony and sketches, such as those of former FBI Agents Sibert and O'Neil (See their diagrams, attached below), and Bethesda Technicians Jerrol Custor, Paul O'Connor and James Jenkins (and spare me the details of Jerrol Custor's later deviations in testimony after he decided to try to become a nationally acclaimed expert on the case):

QUESTION: What was the location and dimensions of the large avulsive head wound that you observed in the Bethesda morgue during President Kennedy's autopsy?

 

JENKINS: "...Now the wound that I saw: [pointing to regions on a skull model] This is the occipital area here, the parietal area here, and in the temporal area here. The wound was here approximately where my finger is [Jenkins points to the upper occipital region of the back of the skull model], and it extended down here [Jenkins indicates a lower region on the occiput with his thumb]. It was about 3 and a half inches long, this being the length [Jenkins demonstrates length on skull model], about 2 inches wide [Jenkins demonstrates on skull model]. That was where the missing bone was, and the missing tissue was. Okay, it wasn't exactly a square or a round thing. The top of the wound was kind of domed, and it came down and kinda had a little tail type of thing that came into here [Jenkins demonstrates on skull model], and then it kind of came back up in this area [Jenkins demonstrates on skull model]. 

[See James Jenkins answer at the following link which has been cued up for you https://youtu.be/2U7dXPA_juM?t=1774 ]

 

As you well know, the above is only a tiny sliver of the voluminous evidence and testimony that supports the existence of the large avulsive wound in the occipital-parietal region on the right side of the back of JFK's head, and your assertion that it is not "the low occipital wound" portrayed in the sketch ratified by Dr. McClelland falls miles short of encompassing all of this evidence, and short even of dispelling the considerable evidence of the "low" occipital wound itself.

 

 

So,I take it that Jenkins spotted a bullet entrance on the side of the head with the black marker?

Good stuff.

Gonna have to re-read a couple of times.

1 head shot from the rear at a downward angle that penetrated the cerebellum.

1 head shot from the right front that splattered blood and brain matter to the left/rear.

18 minutes ago, Michael Crane said:

Edited for quoting by mistake

9 hours ago, Keven Hofeling said:

Indeed, and that is the explanation for Newman and Zapruder pointing to their right temples -- they had just witnessed a bullet impacting that very location. And Malcolm Kilduff was merely demonstrating where JFK's physician, George Burkley, had just told him the bullet had entered JFK's head.

As for James Humes, as you pointed out, this is a little more complicated, as Humes was denoting the location of the clandestine craniotomy mortician Tom Robinson and X-ray Tech Ed Reed witnessed him perform (as well as the location of the incision Ed Reed told the HSCA he had seen Humes make in JFK's forehead); although as Humes, Boswell and Finck all repeatedly denied that a craniotomy had been performed, viewers of Humes's hand gesture were all in the dark, and for the most part, remain there to this day...

You know Keven...I was practically doing backflips when I heard Doug Horne mention the story about Robinson & Reed seeing Humes performing the clandestine surgery.I was so puzzled with the enlargement of the wounds from Parkland to Bethesda.

Then I got to thinking...and under the belief that Reed was there early and not Robinson.It is unclear what time it was when the craniotomy was performed in addition to James Jenkins claiming that no early surgery was performed (he was there the entire time without ever leaving unlike O'Connor)

IIRC) Reading Robinson's testimony was confusing/unclear of what time he got to the autopsy and with whom.

Forget Humes...he told half truths and half lies under pressure.

The others besides Gayle could be just short of pointing to the temple  😉 

2 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Okay. Now go back and look at the photos of those pointing out a spot on the back of the head, and note how few of them are pointing out a location at the level of the ear and below. 

Pat,it would only take one or two certified professional Dr's to point there,with all of the other evidence that I have learned about.