James DiEugenio

Roger, This is the last reply I will make to this since I think you are close to joining the Robert Morrow club. The references I will make are to the Gibson essay in The Assassinations. Gibson begins his essay by saying that the version on the creation of the Commission in the HSCA is largely based on Katzenbach and is therefore not complete. (p. 4). For one, both Hoover and Johnson were dead. Its quite clear that Hoover did not want a Commission, as Gibson writes, he opposed the idea. (ibid). And Katzenbach admitted that , "I am sure I talked about it with people outside the government entirely who called me and suggested old friends or former colleagues." (p. 7) Incredibly, or predictably, the HSCA did not follow this lead up. The first time anyone brought it up specifically was by Rostow on the 24th.(p. 7) Right after Ruby shot Oswald. Rostow was a figure outside the government, at Yale. Rostow had talked to Katzenbach already about it (more than once), and he is now talking to Moyers. Rostow specifically said that his suggestion was of a "Presidential commission", one "of very distinguished citizens". He wanted a set of 7-9 people to "look into the whole affair of the murder of the President." (p. 7) Why? Because, Rostow went on to say, that "American opinion is just now so shaken by the behavior of the Dallas Police that they're not believing anything." (p. 7) And Moyers agreed with that perception. And then Moyers repeated the idea of a blue ribbon commission. And then he said he would bring it up with LBJ. (p.8) And we know that Rostow recruited Katzenbach because Hoover mentions that Katzenbach had suggested the idea late on the 24th. And there is some evidence that Walter Jenkins had also been approached. (p. 9) Now I do not see how you can get any more specific than that. Because Rostow's concept is what happened. And Rostow had now recruited, at least, Katzenbach and Moyers to his idea. On the morning of the 25th LBJ is talking to Hoover. Johnson says that a DOJ rep, likely Katzenbach, is lobbying with the Washington Post about a presidential commission. He then says he thinks that "would be very bad". Because he does not think the White House should be part of this. (p. 9). He then brings up the idea of jurisdiction. (p. 10) (Which legally, he is correct on.) Later on in the conversation LBJ says that he favors an FBI report which would then be given to the AG. If not then a Texas Board of Inquiry supported by the FBI. (p. 10). After this conversation is when Alsop now called LBJ. Rostow was the guy working the flanks and softening up the ramparts. Alsop will now go in for the kill. RIght at the beginning, LBJ says he favors a Texas inquiry backed by the FBI. Something from outside would be really bad.(p. 10) He actually said this three times to Alsop at the start. Alsop steps right over this by saying that the Post is going to advocate for a blue ribbon commission. He then says that Johnson should announce, in this case, a smaller commission, of three men, preferably lawyers. And they will write a report. He accents that this report has to be reviewed outside of Texas.(p. 11) He then resorts to flattery and tells him if he does this, he will have The Post behind him and also the rest of the press. LBJ still resists, since he does not want to interfere with a state matter, and says he has been advised by lawyers not to. Alsop battles back and plays his ace card: this is the murder of a president! (p. 12). LBJ still resists. But Alsop comes right back and plays his other ace: only in this way can the country be convinced. He then says he is worried about the Post but LBJ can get ahead of them. He even says that Moyers should call Kay Graham and tell them that he is going to do it. (p. 14). LBJ is now cowered and says he will talk to Acheson about it. Alsop plays the affection card, and says "I hate to interfere sir, I only dare to do so because I care so much about you." (p. 14) And LBJ falls for this and says, "I know that Joe." And within 72 hours of this, LBJ had reversed himself and announced he will form a commission. The double team of Alsop and Rostow worked. I stand by what I said, the Commission was not LBJ's idea. It was brought to him by players outside the government.

Its not safe to take LBJ at his word, especially on Vietnam and what happened there after JFK was killed or on Bobby Kennedy. But in his memoir, he says that the first person who pushed the idea of a blue ribbon commission was Gene Rostow, backed up by Alsop, and he adds the name of Rusk. I wonder if Rusk was the guy in the room with Alsop who Alsop referred to but did not name. (And recall that Alsop also mentioned Acheson.) So this appears to be an instance where he actually was telling the truth. Not often but...

Nice one Keven, 👋

Roger, your reply to Gibson above is, to say the least, rather weird. Plain and simple: LBJ did not want a blue ribbon commission. The record indicates that the first guy to suggest this to the White House was Gene Rostow on the 24th. RIght after Ruby shot Oswald. And Rostow had already talked to Katzenbach. Rostow tells Moyers this had to be done, the appointment of a commission and Moyers tells him he will bring it to Johnson's attention. And Rostow said he had talked to one other person about this matter already. Further, Walter Jenkins was also cognizant of the idea that day. Since he wrote a note about it. On the 25th, in a call with Hoover, Johnson voices his opposition to it and calls it "very bad". But he is aware that some have gone to the Washington Post about the idea. He wants an FBI report that would then be passed on to the AG. HIs second suggestion is a Texas Court of Inquiry to be supplemented by the FBI. Now that is where LBJ was right before the Alsop call on the 25th and its all in B and W, right in Gibson's essay. It was clearly the Alsop call that changed Johnson's mind on this issue. Because at the beginning of the call, he still is insisting that the Texas authorities take the inquiry since its a state crime. And he thinks they should be supplemented by the FBI. It was at this point that Alsop took over the call and he invokes the Washington Post and the name of people like Dean Acheson to serve on the Commission. And the FBI would serve as the investigatory body. WIthin 72 hours LBJ reversed himself and supported the Commission. So no, the Warren Commission was not Johnson's idea. The other stuff you have in there does not relate to what Gibson is saying here. Its theorizing.

I think Robert and William replied to this effectively. The whole last day pleading by the CIA with Trump had been well known for a long time when Carlson did his show. Pompeo was a regular at Fox. So if you put 2 and 2 together... I think this was probably why Pompeo's lawyer called Carlson and threatened him the day after. Because this was supposed to be off the record. And that clearly coincides with the Napolitano experience with Trump.

My latest substack is on this subject. It is still free, what a bargain. "Tucker Carlson on the JFK Case: Pompeo was protecting James Angleton" Here you go. https://substack.com/home/post/p-144086075?source=queue

I am doing a substack on this right now. Just remember, although Pompeo was not CIA Director when Carslon's Fox program went on the air, he was DIrector when Trump was going to declassify all the documents on the case in October of 2017. Does anyone think that the CIA guys went over to the Oval Office and read Trump the riot act and Pompeo did not know about it? I think he was probably right there. This was all a coincidence?

To me, the tell is that it was Pompeo's lawyer who called Carlson. And Pompeo was not in the CIA at the time Carlson's show aired.

Thanks for that Robert. Nice one. And William should get EF brownie points for predicting way back that Pompeo was Carlson's source.

Roger: Do you know a lot of nice sweetie pies who work for the CIA? So I don't know where you are going with that. But the significance of this is that it corroborates what Trump told Napolitano. Because Pompeo is the guy who, on the day the documents were supposed to be let go, pleaded with Trump not to do it. So he threatens Carlson with a lawsuit, and previously he got Trump to, IMO, break the law. I like what Carslon said to him, so you shutting me up is more important than who killed JFK?

I am not sure if Jeff Morley is aware of this. But I sure hope someone tells him about it. This is something he can run with, since he gets more face time on the MSM than anyone on our side.

Here is a link to the relevant part of the show.

On Joe Rogan Number 2138, at about the 2hr:45 minute mark, Rogan brings up the JFK case. Very shortly after that, Carlson brings up the fact that the day after he did his "CIA role in the JFK case" show for Fox, Pompeo's lawyer called him up and threatened him with a lawsuit. Carlson replied with, you mean me saying something like that is more important than finding out who killed Kennedy? And if you listen closely, its Angleton who evidently Pompeo said was complicit. This is really interesting because when Trump was supposed to declassify all the documents, it was Pompeo who went in at the last moment and pleaded with him not to. So what Trump told Judge Napolitano corresponds with this.

Kai Bird's book is a very powerful portrait of McCloy. And its not pretty. I mean wait until you get to the Klaus Barbie stuff and the Japanese internment. Which leads to the question: why did JFK have him in his administration?

Those are two really good books Ron, especially Battling Wall Street. I think that is the best book on Kennedy's economic policies. The chapter there on the steel crisis is the best I ever saw. And I think this essay is in the other book of his The Kennedy Assassination Cover Up. Yes, I think its accurate to say that McCloy made that remark. At least I have seen it credited to him more than once. And I have to say he sure as heck followed through on it as anyone can tell from what he did with CBS in 1967. Which we tried to show in JFK Revisited. If you look at the line up, there were two Republicans from Congress, one from the senate and one from the House; there were two Democrats from congress, same parallel. You then had two exalted statesmen types in McCloy and Dulles, and then you had the Chief Justice who was a former prosecutor and was now such a hero to the liberal community for Brown vs Board and the Gideon case, which began the public defender standard. I think that is the cross section that LBJ was trying to effect. And I think LBJ understood that in those Ozzie and Harriet days, the media would make no objection to its superifciality.

And yes Joe B, that is correct I think. One of the objectives was to try and get an invasion of Cuba. I mean the DRE sure as heck was trying for that within 24 hours, were they not?

BTW, why would it be unusual for someone to read the IG report and come to the conclusion the CIA was in on the murder of Kennedy? I think many people who read it come to that conclusion because now a mechanism for assassination is revealed . A confederacy between the CIA, Mob and Cuban exiles. And we know, as Jim Douglass outlined so well, that after the Missile Crisis, the Cuban exiles were quite angry at the no invasion pledge Kennedy made. Plus Mongoose was disbanded and Kennedy had cut back significantly on raids into Cuba. In the entire second half of 1963 there had been only five. So what would it have taken to switch the target from Castro to JFK? And Oswald was perfect to provoke an invasion of Cuba. I am not saying that is what happened. What I am saying is that after reading the report, I can see how many could come to that conclusion.

If you have not read Gibson's milestone article, you really should. When he first submitted it to me, I was really surprised. Johnson, the master manipulator, was being royally rolled into doing something he did not want to do. If you have not read it, here it is: https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-creation-of-the-warren-commission And here is a story on Hoover's memo the night before Katzenbach's. https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/jfk-assassination-files/jfk-files-j-edgar-hoover-said-public-must-believe-lee-n814881

The Warren Commission was not Johnson's invention, that is not accurate. Johnson did not want a blue ribbon commission. He had to be convinced to do it by, first Eugene Rostow, and then Alsop. And Alsop then told him that the Washington Post was going to come out with that idea also. LBJ did not want it and Alsop's conversation with him was a masterful piece of flattery, persuasion, and massaging to get him to construct it. I mean, everyone knows what happened after. It was a mess. But what did anyone expect with Hoover running the inquiry? Hoover actually was on record as closing the case before Katzenbach was. In fact, I now think that his memo the night before might have been the model for Katzenbach's. About 80 per cent of the inquiry was done by Hoover. In second was the Secret Service, and as we all know--Elmer Moore for one--they were about as bad as the FBI was. Does anyone even want to talk about the CIA, and that stunt they pulled in Mexico CIty? Which even Hoover saw through after about six weeks. So with those three bodies doing the inquiry, it was pretty much a foregone conclusion. But then you had the MSM basically encouraging it and accepting it and then giving it a rocket boost when it came out. It is really bizarre to me how the MSM did not scream, or even object, to the WC having closed hearings. Not one peep. And the only witness who complained was Mark Lane. I mean closed hearings on the public execution of the president? As per Dulles, remember, Talbot in his biography of the man, revealed that he was the one commissioner who lobbied for the job. Therefore, it might not have been solely LBJ's decision on that one. But he clearly understand after that this was a mistake, and I think he tried to cover it up.

Roger: in your last sentence, the first part is accurate. Alsop did have a very strong part in convincing LBJ to form the Warren Commission, and that is clearly documented by Donald GIbson in his milestone essay in the book The Assassinations. The last part is in all likliehood not true. I think that after the fact LBJ realized what a joke it was to put Dulles on that Commission and he felt the need to blame someone he despised. As per your first statement there is a very clear reason to think that way about the CIA/Mafia plots and LBJ. Its in the IG Report. They admit it on pp. 132-33: no president had any knowledge of the plots. Its right there in B and W. And its so devastating that Helms only kept one copy. That is clearly not what Helms wanted to hear. But the authors of the report reluctantly came to that conclusion. The first exposure of the plots was done by Roselli to Anderson, who printed a very much distorted view of them. Johnson, like many others, saw this story. He asked Helms for an accurate report on them. And that is how we got that report. Which actually traces how the Anderson story was put together, again its right there in B and W. If you have other information about this, and if its solidly documented, I would certainly like to see it. And so would everyone else.

Here you go Sandy. Direct link to CIA IG Report. Which, IIRC, Fetter has no footnotes to. Kind of mind boggling. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9983 This was so incriminating that Helms told the guys who wrote it to destroy their notes, and he kept only one copy, the ribbon original in his safe. Which Johnson read. I think he did that because he understood that logical, informed thinkers may have thought that these plots--which featured the CIA, Mafia, and Cuban exiles--could then have been turned against JFK.

In the Washington Post of December 12, 1977, you will see a story about LBJ's chief of staff Marvin Watson telling Deloach that after reading the CIA IG report Johnson now felt the CIA was involved in the murder of President Kennedy. Unfortunately that is behind a wall.

Sandy, The CIA IG report, which is invaluable and one of the triumphs of the ARRB, is at MFF. And its completely declassified now. If you have not read it please do.

No Ron, it does not look like him, as I have seen close up pictures of Cruz back then. Trump really wanted to accent this phony story by the way, he actually mentioned it on TV. Richard, can you provide a source for him being on the route working for IBM, and then running away to Canada.?

BTW, how did Johnson eventually find out about the plots? It was the Drew Pearson story through Johnny Roselli. When that got into the papers, LBJ told Helms he wanted a report on this. That is how we got the CIA IG Report. After reading it, Johnson told his assistant he now thought the CIA was involved in JFK's murder. Although he never said that in public. The closest he got I think was when he said Oswald was likely not working alone. He had some help.