James DiEugenio

Oh please. Now you are trying to bring in instance after instance which has nothing to do with MM. Why? Why are you going so far away from both threads? BTW, I read the article about Whitehead. He said this FIFTY YEARS after the fact. You got it, a HALF CENTURY later. Now why did you not quote what else he said? He said LBJ broke open a bottle of Cutty Sark on the plane and said "Well what's next?" Oh really Bob? Got any other fairy tales. The Kennel keeper? LOL. 😿. Question: if you write a book about the white House from the kennels, how else do you sell any copies? 🤔 Finally, Jackie had that horse back riding event booked for weeks in advance. So no go partner. Why not quote Jeanne Carmen next with MM getting phone calls from Jackie saying stay away from my husband? Woops. He will use that now.

Whew, Rob Reiner, Edward Norton and Daisy RIdley for the 60th? High cotton.

Here is the second installment. I am really surprised no one noticed it.

Daisy Ridley and Edward Norton? Someone just sent me this, it was first broadcast last year. Apparently the consultants were Newman and Morley. Take a listen.

Eddie FIsher? The crazy couple the Katers who tried to black mail Kennedy? When is Lex Cusack coming up again? In other words this is triple hearsay about Jackie suspecting LBJ. From Fisher through Pamela. As per RFK, David Talbot's book Brothers is the best book on RFK and his inquiry into the JFK case. Why ignore that best selling and credible tome for Eddie Fisher? Because he does not name LBJ as someone RFK suspected? Whitehead? Against VeVea and Rollyson. Whew.

One of the more surprising things I discovered while working on this subject was this: Paul Hoch helped research Goddess. You know, Mr. Purity on the JFK case, the man who assails people for taking New Orleans and Jim Garrison as credible. In his acknowledgments, Summers credits Hoch. So I guess Hoch, Mr. Purity did not mind being part of a book with the likes of Jeanne Carmen? Or Robert Slatzer. Whew.

Morrow brought this thread back and hijacked it. Because I was effectively countering him time after time on the other thread. This thread was titled by Mike Griffith. And from the start it was BS. For the simple reason that we know today for sure, through three nationally known pathologists, that MM was not murdered by anyone. We also know through the work of the best writers and researchers in that field--Vitacco Robles, VeVea, McGovern, Churchwell--that there was no "affair" between RFK and MM, and at the most, there was perhaps a one off dalliance between MM and JFK, and Gary VItacco Robles, even disputes that. Since that has no validity, and is in fact a pile of rubbish--and has been shown to be so--what does Robert do? He adds stuff that has nothing to do with MM. And he then modifies the stories he quotes with stuff that is not in the text, and anyone can see that. He then creates stuff that he himself understands did not happen. But then he throws in something else to push his other agenda: hey Evelyn Lincoln thinks Johnson killed Kennedy. Which has about as much evidence behind it as his other attempts at character assassination. Bob, this is one of the better forums there is on the JFK case. If you have nothing to say, except to push your own personal agenda, then its better that you just don't say anything.

I reviewed the book, here it is: https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-reviews/jfk-vs-lbj-the-msm-in-overdrive The IG Report is the last word on the plots to kill Castro. They trace the whole history of them, from their originating point back in 1959-60 to the AMLASH plots. The very fact that RFK found out about them by accident shows you all you need to know. If Maheu had not decided to help Giancana spy on his girlfriend in Vegas and if the technician had not screwed up, RFK would not have to have been briefed. But once Hoover told him about the incident in Vegas, RFK asked: what are we doing helping Sam Giancana? The guy I am trying to put in jail? So that is when the CIA had to tell him about these plots that he knew nothing about. They then lied to him and said they were over--when in fact they were ongoing with Roselli and Harvey, and the briefers knew it. Helms really did not like the report. He kept only one copy and demanded the authors get rid of their notes and all other copies they had. The main reason being is the report admits that they cannot use the cover of presidential approval for the acts since they were deliberately kept from Ike, JFK and LBJ. And JFK was adamant on this point. When Smathers, a CIA flunkie, tried to get him to consider the idea, Kennedy actually broke a plate over the table and said he did not want to hear about such things. He then added, the Agency did things behind his back and he was trying to get control of these actions. Well, he did not. And we know what happened.

I found the Mansfield one. Here it is. Even if you don't know anything about acting you can see the difference. Monroe brings a real vitality and professionalism to the role that Mansfield cannot approach.

I posted this awhile back, but to repeat my point about her being a really accomplished and underrated comedienne, just watch what she does with this TV skit with Jack benny. Her facial expressions, her carved delivery of each line, her inflections and her pacing are just first rate. Really exceptional. I saw this same skit performed by Benny and Jayne Mansfield. It was night and day, Monroe was that much better in every way.

BTW, one of the things I discovered while researching this two parter was the work of Sarah Churchwell. Churchwell is a real scholar in the field who wrote a fine book about Monroe. From the time of Mailer and Slatzer, it was really MM who was being character assassinated and this rose to stratospheric heights in the eighties. When you read up on the actual facts, you understand that, first Monroe did not have multiple abortions. In fact, her doctor said she did not have any. She did not have an ongoing decade long menage a trois with the sons of Chaplin and Robinson. There is no evidence of that in their books. Sam Giancana did not have any interest at all in her contract as that novel Double Cross says. She was not a Mob moll, and she was not a honey pot for the CIA. None of the above is true. MM really tried to educate herself by taking UCLA extension classes on literature. Although she was an accomplished comedienne she wanted to be a real actress, that is why she left Hollywood to attend the Actor's Studio. She also wanted to produce her own films, that is why she formed her own company. The first female since Pickford. She was all for civil rights also, she was a real progressive. As Churchwell notes, this is the MM that Oates' Blonde ignores and pretty much eliminates. But yet, this is the real Monroe. In that sense, her tragic drug addiction and her demise, whether it be accidental or deliberate is really a personal and professional tragedy. The latter owing to her doctors failure, as Cyril Wecht noted. Giving someone over 800 pills in two months is not weaning, it is feeding an addiction. BTW, the reason she studied literature is because those are the parts she wanted to play. This is why she did a scene from Anna Christie at the Actor's Studio..

Here is a current article on the case, from the Guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/01/uk-us-obstructing-inquiry-death-united-nations-dag-hammarskjold

Another BS story. As I showed, MM was in New York during that convention in preparation for The Misfits. You could have easily found that out if you wanted to. Your tendency to funnel BS stories, from sources like Vidal and Hersh impugns your image on the JFK case. Maybe you do not know that or maybe it just does not matter to you.

Mimi Is full of it. As Randy T showed, Jackie never left the White House. And its ridiculous to say he said such a thing. Jeff Carter's essay is the number one rated article at Kennedys and King.

As per Sy Hersh, I mean you cannot be serious. The guy is a joke today. And his Kennedy book started him down that path. He fell for two hoaxes. I don't give writers points for falling for hoaxes. https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/sy-hersh-falls-on-his-face-again-and-again-and-again

Robert: I am not dodging the issue. Its you who is doing that. Did you read the VeVea and Rollyson books? Did you even know they existed? Alright then if they were not going to DC where did Whitehead say they were going? Did MM just hitch a ride somewhere? On AF One? Like from where to where? That is some story about Lancer. And whew, Smathers and Lawford in a triangle with a stewardess. And JFK wrenched his back in 1963? Double whew.

I would think so Ron. I mean how did it get there?

He was up in San Francisco when I did a speech at Gary Aguilar's salon about Kennedy's overall foreign policy and how it evolved and was a conscious switch from the what preceded it. It was after this that he told me I should write a book on the subject. And no Ron there is no one book that puts it altogether, not even half of it.

This is such an interesting and important case for a lot of reasons. For a very long time, the research community pretty much ignored how important the Congo was to JFK. But if one just considers this: Lumumba was assassinated, Dag H was very likely assassinated, and Kennedy was assassinated while the Congo crisis was playing out, this included the European backed secession of Katanga. When all three are dead, what happened? LBJ sends in the Cuban exile pilots to head off what they called a Chinese inspired commie intervention there. I wish I was kidding but just look at Jonathan Kwitny's book Endless Enemies. When we were doing JFK Revisited, Richard Mahoney told me something that was about to break a bit later. Namely that, at the time, Gullion had told JFK that this plane crash was no accident and that the CIA knew also. This is why I think Kennedy was so determined to keep Katanga from breaking away since a man he admired was killed over it.

Bob, Monroe was never in Washington while JFK was president. And its provable by the methods I just stated above. The last time she was in Washington was for the HUAC. And yes, I can name a lot of reasons why guys in the Pentagon would say stuff like that. Sy Hersh wrote a whole book based on sources like this in the government who did not like JFK. Just read his chapter on the Missile Crisis. If you want to see something funny, read what George Smathers said about JFK and Monroe. That guy told so many whoppers he could not keep them all straight. Now, do you want me to name all the books I have read on this subject? I mean did you read Gary Vitacco Robles' landmark book that is over 1,100 pages long? I did and I took 70 pages of notes.

He told me I should write a book about Kennedy's foreign policy.

That is kind of ridiculous. I have never seen that any place and I read quite a few books on the subject. In fact too many, since 90 per cent are rubbish. Monroe was never on AF One and she was never in Washington DC while Kennedy was president. This is provable because one can now compare two MM day books, by Rollyson and VeVea, with the daily planners of both RFK and JFK. As per the Krim party, again this has been discredited so many times its kind of silly. MM came to that gathering with her fomer father in law, Arthur Miller's dad, as her escort. She rented a limousine, and Gary Vitacco Robles found the receipts and time checked in and out. After the Krim party, she took him home and asked her to come back to LA with her. He said no but maybe later. She then went back to her apartment where members of her fan club awaited her and she talked to them. She went up to her room alone. And that was that. Repeat: there was never any credible evidence of anything between RFK and MM. This is why cheapjack writers have to use fruitcakes like Jeanne Carmen as their evidence. But anyone who reads my two parter will know that she can never be taken as credible again. And what Lawford did the night she died is not in any any way detrimental to his character. In fact, he was trying to do the right thing. As per the Palm Springs story, up until the release of Gary VItacco Robles' book Icon Part 2, that had been the one place where there was supposed to be a one time dalliance between her and JFK. But Gary presents evidence that might not even be the case, with stuff I had not seen before. (see p. 487) But the underlying truth is that Robert Slatzer started an avalanche of trash about Monroe, and his book was really a trash compactor. It has no value at all today, period, and I can say that since I had to read the rubbish at the Hollywood Library on three separate days and take notes, while paying for parking. It slandered three people with a melange of BS, including made up and paid off witnesses. But incredibly it had an immediate impact, as I showed in my essay and it was a pernicious one. Cheap sensationalism sells, particularly about celebrities. That avalanche of rubbish eventually made MM into both a Mob moll, and a CIA honey trap: she was neither. Some of these crazy books have her sitting in on meetings in Washington, where she never was while JFK was president. It is really a crime against cultural standards as well as a cesspool of character assassination. Robert Slatzer suckered a lot of people who should have known better than to fall for a dyed in the wool con artist like himself.

Bob: I did a lot of research for that article. No credible author gives any credence to what you attributed to DiMaggio about JFK and RFK. And there are some credible ones today, there were none before. DiMaggio closed her funeral services because he really did not like the movie colony at all. Period. And this is what led to the split in their marriage. He despised her famous scene in The Seven Year Itch which became iconic in movie history. In fact he stomped off the set and reportedly slapped her when he saw her next. As I stated for the record in that essay, there was no romantic or sexual association between RFK and Monroe. None. As Vitacco Robles showed, she wanted his help for her dispute with the studio, since Bobby knew someone on the board. She and RFK met all of four times in two years. And someone else was always there. The evidence indicates that Monroe was hoarding pills and she was getting them from at least one other source besides her doctors, probably more than that. The 45 minute delay in the call to LAPD by her doctors was because Greenson was figuring out just what Engleberg had done as he was going through all the bottles in her room. He was both stunned and puzzled. And btw, as with Ebbins, Greenson said that there was no relationship between MM and the Kennedys and they had nothing to do with her death. And he saw her nearly every day. But there is more than one report that Greenson was so worried about the abuse of pills he discovered that night that he summoned Rudin there, who was a lawyer. Clearly, he was trying to figure out his liability for her overdose. The only question being if it was deliberate or accidental. One can make an argument for both, the latter since she was such a pill addict she had built up an immunity. As I said, Greenson thought she was a lost soul. And her last two psychoanalysts, Kris and Greenson, learned of her last two attempts to take her own life. When Kris had her entered into a hospital, that is when she called DiMaggio. Which was several years after they divorced. And after her marriage to Miller.

Griffith has repeatedly disputed Kennedy's intent of getting out of Vietnam, and he has backed that really bad book by Selverstone over the works of Kaiser, Newman, Blight and Goldstein. I reviewed Selverstone and showed just how much he leaves out and how much he distorts, like leaving out the fact that Kennedy was reviewing the whole situation at the time of his death. Selverstone tries to say its not true, but its double, independently sourced. Per RFK, William and I have shown how he cherry picks one quote and ignores others made before and after it.

I belatedly saw the Pitt/Dominik Netflix film Blonde. Did not know it had been made before for CBS. So I had to watch that one also. Then read the Oates novel. Thought all three were pretty poor and decided to try and find out why. Mike Griffith is wrong again. The whole field is one of character assassination, and fiction passing as non fiction. Of late there has been some attempt to get things straight in that case by some admirable people. Since for too long the Slatzerians were allowed to run wild. Poor Marilyn Monroe, I decided to give her the last word. https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/brad-pitt-joyce-carol-oates-and-the-road-to-blonde-part-1