Cliff Varnell

The Zfilm shows JFK reacting first to the throat shot; Bennett’s corroborated account puts the back shot later. These facts are contrary to your pet theory so your mind is closed to them.

And neither claimed JFK was shot in the back initially. None of whom claimed the first shot struck his back. Not in regard to the back wound. None of that has anything to do with the back wound. So what? Bennett’s account was contemporaneous and corroborated by Willis 5 and Altgens 6. You have zero basis for claiming a first-shot/back shot. None.

And no one describes the back shot first. Bennett could not have seen the back shot that early — he was looking to the right in Willis 5 (Z202). Sure, he was shot in the throat. That’s why his fists were balled — so he wouldn’t get shot in the throat again. Shot in the throat, sure. You weren’t there. Bennett was.

The best I can do is my 1955 Yukon Copper Cores MM-on-red-velvet calendar.

The limo is in the shop?

But according to SSA Glen Bennett’s well-corroborated contemporaneous written account JFK was shot immediately before the head shot — about 90 yards from the “short load” location. Undercharged round misses the target by inches over 90 yards? No way.

No, you could address the issues raised. You’re entitled to your opinions, of course, but not to your own facts. Ben posits a short load distance of 50 - 75 yards but Bennett’s corroborated account makes it closer to 90. Surely we can agree on the fact that 50 - 75 ain’t 90?

At 90 yards. Really? Not to mention the soft tissue no-exit wound in the throat — two short loads?

People who bash witnesses annoy me. I’m an outlier in this regard — expressions of annoyance are rare on Kennedy assassination boards.

Indeed. https://www.cryptogon.com/?p=67681 <quote on> Former Secret Service agent, Paul Landis, found the Magic Bullet on the top of the back seat of the limo? Undercharged round??? Mmm hmm. Nealy 60 years after the JFK assassination, we now have Magic Bullet 2.0. Can anyone explain to me how the possibly “undercharged” Magic Bullet 2.0 managed to hit the target at all if the person firing the rifle dialed in DOPE [Data Observed from Previous Engagements?] for a standard velocity round? Not only did the “undercharged” Magic Bullet 2.0 have enough velocity to hit the target using DOPE for a standard round, but it then, “Dislodged from a shallow wound in the president’s back, falling back onto the limousine seat.” If you’re not familiar with shooting high powered rifles, run this scenario past someone who is has and note the response. It will go something like, “No way.” Personal experience: I’ve probably shot something like 15,000 centerfire rifle cartridges in my life, mostly 5.56, 7.62×51 and 7.62×39. Also, some larger stuff, .300 Winmag, .338, etc. How many of those do you think were “Undercharged”? None. Zero. Zilch. I had a few bad primers (under a handful) fail to fire in all of that time. I mostly fired old, cheap military surplus ammo and most of that was not made in the U.S. I don’t think I ever had a U.S. manufactured centerfire rifle round (Winchester, Federal, Remington, etc.) fail to fire. How many “undercharged” centerfire rifle cartridges have you encountered in your decades of shooting? Imagine the odds, on the big day almost 60 years ago… A defective cartridge? Tell me another one. Someone, somewhere might try to sell you on squib loads to explain this. I’m just here to tell you, in over forty years of shooting, it hasn’t happened to me, or any of my friends. (Somewhere on this site you can read about my wife’s cousin trying to kill a pig with a wet .22. That doesn’t count, because first, that’s rimfire, which is less reliable than centerfire and, second, it was wet.) </q>

What you seem to be unaware of is that the partition of Laos worked wonderfully well for the CIA.

It’s not me Ben is against, it’s the contemporaneous account of SSA Glen Bennett he refuses to consider. The types who annoy me are False Mystery naysayers. Everything is cast in the shadow of doubt — even when it’s obvious.

First shot back shot is not worth thinking about. Which has no bearing on Bennett's well-supported account putting the back shot 90 yards from your short load. You have a closed mind in regard to Bennett’s statement, and Kennedy’s clear reaction to a first shot throat shot.

Certainly not. Before long you’ll be back claiming JFK was hit with an under-charged round, Finck lied about his experience, the bullet may have transited, etc etc etc. That’s your shtick. Just don’t expect me to respect it.

No, you habitually mischaracterize the evidence: Pierre Finck’s experience with gunshot wounds, the timing of the back shot according to Bennett’s well-corroborated report, the accounts of the probing of the back wound — to name the more egregious examples of bad faith. And you refuse to acknowledge any evidence that doesn’t fit your pet theories — bad faith. Without a shred of evidence that such a round was ever produced. No, I’m pointing out that the autopsists suspected a disintegrating projectile,. You habitually bash witnesses who don’t support your pet notions. I call that bad faith.

Try to show good faith in your discussions, Ben, then you might be treated with the respect you think you deserve.

This is merely the latest iteration of the “short load” scenario posed by Mr. Cole. SSA Glen Bennett’s abundantly corroborated contemporaneous written account establishes the back shot immediately before the head shot — 90 yards. This is a breakthrough! The first time Ben Cole has acknowledged the scenario is “unlikely.” Short loaded by hand and still only missed the head by 7 - 8 inches? Or the bullet was planted. But that doesn’t fit Ben’s pet theory, so he goes with a wildly far fetched scenario to naysay a point of clarity. And the round dropped only 8 inches over 90 yards? The distance was almost twice that. Which brings us to Ben’s Lone Nut Adjacent scenario — the bullet entered the back at T3 at a downward angle, somehow climbed up the spine to fracture the right T1 transverse process, then change direction again to tear the trachea and exit the throat. Even Lone Nutters reject this as idiotic. No, Ben, you ignore anything that doesn’t confirm your pet theories.

Thanks for your detailed response, Gary. Every time I cite the fact 6.5mm FMJ don’t leave shallow wounds in soft tissue, Ben Cole chimes in with the short load scenario. No amount of contrary evidence gets Ben to get off it.

Out of two million rounds of WCC 6.5mm FMJ how many would be short loads, on an average? There’s one regular poster here who thinks defective rounds were common in 1963.

I argue JFK was killed because his plans to scale down overall American presence in SE Asia would jeopardize CIA operations in Laos. Bingo! Harriman was the heavy, the others merely his protégés. Harriman out maneuvered Kennedy and boxed him into support for the Diem coup. Who negotiated the ‘62 partition of Laos, which gave the Ho Chi Minh Trail to the Communists and the Golden Triangle poppy fields to allies of the CIA? Harriman. American elites had a vital interest in Laos. Diem and Kennedy had to go. The most intense bombing campaign in history followed, and the Golden Triangle eventually replaced Turkey as the foremost source of heroin.

I was adding the shirt and jacket — so in this construction it’s “2+ inches below.” There is another crucial observation: the Dealey Plaza photos show a normal amount of shirt collar visible, indicating the jacket collar was in a normal position, the lower margin at the base of the neck C6/7. That’ll work. Although I find it more economic to point out the undisturbed jacket collar.

Okay. The H requires 4”+ inches of shirt/jacket fabric to occupy the same physical space as the jacket collar — an untenable scenario.

For all you know the Landis bullet was planted. Secret Service agent Glen Bennett wrote a contemporaneous report which precludes a first shot back shot. We’ve been over this already Ben.

Why isn’t the hypothesis a positive declaration of multiple directions? The claim that multiple inches of bunched shirt and jacket could occupy the same physical space as the jacket collar is prima facie untenable, no? No, I cited evidence for my hypothesis and left the absurdity of the alternative to speak for itself. We can reject the alternative because disparate physical objects can’t occupy the same physical space at the same time.

And JFK reacted to this undercharged round striking his back by holding his fists in front of his throat. Maybe that’s what people do in your parallel universe, Ben.