Christopher Hall

If I recall correctly, it is Fonzi who unearths a serious instance of evidence tampering by the CIA when he was reviewing some of the medical evidence. I forget what it was, but it was quite egregious and reminded me of what Sandy Berger got caught doing at the National Archives. At this advanced age, my memory sometimes fails me, and the fact that I read about 10 JFK assassination books in a row makes them kind of run together in my mind. But, it was a serious instance of evidence tampering that I don't read much about on this forum, kind of like Mark Lane's deposition (more like evisceration) of EHH.

And I guess that the Israelis were similarly complicit in staging the Munich massacre.

_______________________ Charlie, I agree. In my humble opinion, Hunt probably had some highly-incriminating documents, tape recordings, and/or photos (original negatives) stashed away in a several safe places and let certain elements of the CIA/FBI/Mafia see and/or listen to the Zeroxes, copies and/or prints of said incriminating items with the understanding that if he died under suspicious circumstances, said "evidence" would be made "public." Heck, who knows... Maybe Hunt really was that "old tramp" being escorted by "police" down the Elm Street extention and maybe he was carrying a Minox (or some such small camera) in the smallish paper bag visible in his left hand in some of the photos. Maybe he had taken photos of the shooters, spotters and/or radiomen in action.... Nah, it was probably a radio.... --Thomas _______________________ I agree that EHH was probably able to die in bed because he had mechanism in place to publicize the details of the assassination of JFK if he was murdered. He was apparently a good boy to the end by publishing his book which deflected blame for the assassination away from the CIA. I haven't read his book, but I have read about it on this forum. I hope that St. John Hunt writes a book with his knowledge of what happened in Dallas.

I've consistently read that Phil Donohue's show was canceled prior to the Iraq invasion because it gave viewers an alternative to propaganda. http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0227-04.htm Donahue talked about this a few weeks back on Bill Moyers' program. He said that he was told by MSNBC that he could not have someone opposed to Bush' policies on his show unless he also had someone supporting Bush' policies. He was told as well that he COULD have someone on the program supporting Bush' policies without representing the other side. To their thinking, he (Donahue) counted as a liberal, and should not be allowed to stack the deck against the administration. They then canceled his show even though its ratings were good. A few weeks later, we invaded Iraq. You are right about Olby. He outpaced Paula Zahn on Monday by 30,000, which I find impressive, although O'Reilly still be him by a multiple of 3.5 to 4. I actually tried to watch Donahue on several occasions a few years ago, but the show was already circling the drain. I think that he had difficulty making the transition from daytime television, where he would, back in the 1980s, walk up and down the aisles with his mike getting people to stand up and talk with him, to a more serious news oriented framework. I wish him well, whatever he is doing now. At the time he was fired, Donahue's nightly viewership was 446,000, while O'Reilly's was 2,700,000 and Connie Chung's was 985,000. Those numbers are meaningless, Christopher, without an exact comparison of time slot and overall viewership of the network. Do you have the numbers for whatever show replaced Donahue, and the relative costs? Those numbers would have more meaning. That said, you could be right in your implication that Donahue was fired for legitimate reasons. I was basically repeating what Donahue told Moyers. He wouldn't be the first fired employee to think it was unfair. I don't think that MSNBC found Donohue's viewership numbers meaningless, and I respectfully disagree that viewership numbers are meaningless. To the contrary, I think that they mean quite a lot to the networks. MSNBC has historically, and I believe currently, lagged way behind Fox News and, to a lesser extent, CNN. I think that MSNBC replaced Donohue with either Chris Matthews or Keith Olberman, both of whom continue to do poorly against the competition. I obviously don't know MSNBC's production costs. I remember some discussion floating around the blogosphere about a year ago relating to MSNBC's seriously considering going dark, which I hope doesn't happen. What I was trying to say was that, in TV terms, raw numbers of viewers watching a program is a nearly meaningless statistic, when it comes to the decision-making progress. Say you have Cheers on at 8 and Seinfeld on at 9. The show between them will almost certainly win its time slot and have huge ratings. But will there be a drop-off? If so, how much of it is the show's fault and how much of it is from another network's having a good show for that slot? These considerations are the determining factors in the show's life span, not the ratings. There have been shows with good ratings within their slot, that have been canceled anyhow, due to the demographics of their viewers. That's what killed the original Star Trek. There have been shows with good ratings within their slot, AND desirable demographics, that have been canceled anyhow, due to political reasons. That's what killed The Smothers Brothers Show. Donahue would like to add his show to that list. Since MSNBC has trailed CNN and Fox News forever, saying that Donahue's show didn't stack up doesn't really tell us much. What does tell us something is that shortly after the war began, CNN felt its hold slipping over to Fox and became more pro-American and more like a tabloid, and that shortly after that MSNBC, via Olberman, began railing against the war, and that their viewership has since picked up tremendously, at the expense of both Fox and CNN (or so I've read). This gives one reason to suspect that Donahue's ratings would have picked up in time. He certainly seems to think so. I am sure that Donahue thinks his ratings would have improved, but I think that he is unduly charitable in his assessment. I don't think that he transitioned from the theatrics which accompany daytime television (that he helped pioneer) to a more serious news oriented show. I used to try to watch his show before it was pulled, and I found his antics (e.g. pacing around with his mike up and down the aisles) pretty annoying and Springer-esque. In any event, I hope that he and Marlo Thomas are doing well.

I've consistently read that Phil Donohue's show was canceled prior to the Iraq invasion because it gave viewers an alternative to propaganda. http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0227-04.htm Donahue talked about this a few weeks back on Bill Moyers' program. He said that he was told by MSNBC that he could not have someone opposed to Bush' policies on his show unless he also had someone supporting Bush' policies. He was told as well that he COULD have someone on the program supporting Bush' policies without representing the other side. To their thinking, he (Donahue) counted as a liberal, and should not be allowed to stack the deck against the administration. They then canceled his show even though its ratings were good. A few weeks later, we invaded Iraq. At the time he was fired, Donahue's nightly viewership was 446,000, while O'Reilly's was 2,700,000 and Connie Chung's was 985,000. Those numbers are meaningless, Christopher, without an exact comparison of time slot and overall viewership of the network. Do you have the numbers for whatever show replaced Donahue, and the relative costs? Those numbers would have more meaning. That said, you could be right in your implication that Donahue was fired for legitimate reasons. I was basically repeating what Donahue told Moyers. He wouldn't be the first fired employee to think it was unfair. I don't think that MSNBC found Donohue's viewership numbers meaningless, and I respectfully disagree that viewership numbers are meaningless. To the contrary, I think that they mean quite a lot to the networks. MSNBC has historically, and I believe currently, lagged way behind Fox News and, to a lesser extent, CNN. I think that MSNBC replaced Donohue with either Chris Matthews or Keith Olberman, both of whom continue to do poorly against the competition. I obviously don't know MSNBC's production costs. I remember some discussion floating around the blogosphere about a year ago relating to MSNBC's seriously considering going dark, which I hope doesn't happen.

I've consistently read that Phil Donohue's show was canceled prior to the Iraq invasion because it gave viewers an alternative to propaganda. http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0227-04.htm Donahue talked about this a few weeks back on Bill Moyers' program. He said that he was told by MSNBC that he could not have someone opposed to Bush' policies on his show unless he also had someone supporting Bush' policies. He was told as well that he COULD have someone on the program supporting Bush' policies without representing the other side. To their thinking, he (Donahue) counted as a liberal, and should not be allowed to stack the deck against the administration. They then canceled his show even though its ratings were good. A few weeks later, we invaded Iraq. At the time he was fired, Donahue's nightly viewership was 446,000, while O'Reilly's was 2,700,000 and Connie Chung's was 985,000.

It could be worse. At least he is not still prosecuting. Ironically, "Helter Skelter" is not the best Mansion/Tate/LaBianca book. I recently re-read it, after reading "The Family", and realized how much Bugliosi's tome was about him and his prosecution and not the murders, the family, etc.

Charlie-I guess we'll have to agree to disagree-I've seen two hostage takers hit in the head with Federal .308 Match jhp and a number of people shot with M16's and the reaction was immediate and dramatic-people fell into the ditch because of gravity-handguns are very weak animals and the difference between handgun impacts and rifle impacts are world apart. frankly, I think it was an AR15/M16 that fired the fatal head shot and it was from in front. Melons are not attached to a spinal cord and do not reflect the reiststace of the human skull. Even ballistic gelatin has its limitations and I shot close to a 1,000lbs a yr of the stuff. People keep ignoring the fact that Oswald was a Marine when the Corp focused on everybody being a rifleman-he may have been less than a expert shot but he knew what quality, accurate rifles were-I cannot believe that a man focused on murdering the President would balk at stealing a quality rifle. none of the goats were shot with rifles-I've seen people virtually decapitated by a high powered rifle hit in the head. Well said. I shoot handguns quite a bit, and the extra accuracy that a 1911, with a guarantee of 1.5 inches at 50 yards (usually a $300 - 400 option), provides makes a substantial difference in my free hand shooting at 15 and 25 yards. I wouldn't want to try to shoot a stationary buck with a Carcano, and certainly not a moving target. I also think that anyone wanting to hit the President would have used a reasonably accurate rifle, and not mail order surplus weaponry.

I concur that there was nothing honorable about the Hells Angels, but they were, nonetheless, a ubiquitous presence in the San Francisco bay area in the late 1960s. One of the Angels punched Marty Balin, of the Jeffeson Airplane, which I believe caused the Grateful Dead to not perform. Generally, I think that the Angels and the local rock scene (the Dead, the Jefferson Airplane, Pacific Gas and Electric, Janis Joplin and others which don't come to mind) peacefully co-existed. The San Francisco scene was a strange potpourri of hippies, rockers, students, the porn scene (think Mitchell Brothers Theater), the Angels, and miscellaneous others who got along rather well in the Summer of Love (1967) and then started to crumble in 1968, when RFK and JFK were assassinated. I believe that the Golden Gate Park, which was near Haight Ashbury and the place where everyone lived and hung out, got a fairly dangerous in the following year. Then came the Tate-LaBianca murders in August, 1969, followed by Altamot in December, 1969. To me, those two events helped trigger a tidal wave of negative feelings that our world was a lot less safe than most people thought. It was an interesting time in history, to say the least, and I remember all of these major events quite well, even though I was fairly young. Thanks for taking me back there for a moment or two. My wife and I recently spent some time in Haight Ashbury and Golden Gate Park, but I suspect that it is now just a shell of its former state.

Someone Would Have Talked is a must read for anyone with an interest in the events surrounding the murder of President Kennedy. As members of this Forum might expect, Larry Hancock has done a remarkable job, and his efforts have resulted in a classic examination of events leading up to Kennedy's death and the ensuing coverup. Building on the research of Russell, Fonzi, Summers, Griggs, and many many others, Larry has masterfully synthesized their research with much of his own. The results are powerful, compelling, and represent a major step forward in our understanding of the assassination. I've yet to finish my second reading and this is not meant as a review, but just some of my first impressions. 1) As anyone that is familiar with Larry and his research knows, his documentation is immaculate. 2) The summaries at the end of each chapter are most helpful. 3) Someone Would Have Talked is remarkably current. It contains much new information. 4) Larry Hancock is a gifted critical thinker. Fortunately, he gives the reader the benefit of his reasoned conclusions. 5) Larry points the way for future researchers. This may be one of the most important facets of the book. 6) Someone Would Have Talked will endure as a useful reference tool for many of the perplexing events surrounding JFK's death. 7) Importantly, the book reads well. Starting with John Martino, Larry weaves a fascinating and convincing account of the roles of so many others. 8) Whenever possible, Larry has corroborated his evidence from multiple sources. 9) There is a lot to absorb, yet Larry does an awesome job of tying events together into a story that is not only believable, but compelling. Larry, congratulations on this edition of Someone Would Have Talked. I think you deserve to be proud of your work. I'm certainly looking forward to discussions on this Forum by the members, once SWHT is released. Someone Would Have Talked is destined to take its place as a classic work in the research of President Kennedy's murder. In my opinion, it was well worth the wait. I I'd only chime in that Michael Hogan's 'review' is on target, Larry's book is all of those nine points listed above, and more. It weaves together in a very clear and convincing way many important [and sometimes new or overlooked] facts, persons and associations, etc. I find myself jumping around in it to pin down all the details on a person or association and am starting a second read-through, following the first - to glean all the details. An amazing amount of information and important associations. A must read for any serious student of the events of Dallas! Great work Larry!......Bravo! Will have some specific questions after second read-through. I agree. Larry has done a great job giving detailed background on what I believe to be the operative elements of the conspiracy, putting together important associations of individuals and groups, and framing their related historical context.

John How ‘tongue in cheek’ was (if at all) your post? Wouldn’t it have been easier and more effective to have called an abler opponent to debate Shayler?* Do you think the Beeb in conjunction with MI5 keeps faux wackos on call waiting to call in on such occasions? Unfortunately it seems that a good number of the people who back the inside job theory do sound like they are off their psych meds. Yes some suggest the Illuminati were responsible others that explosive charges were built into the towers or that the hole in Shanksville was dug the day before. This even applies to some the movement’s leaders who propose theories such as: - The towers were destroyed by satellite based energy beams - No planes were involved in any of the “crashes” etc etc. Shayler by the way is a “no planer” according to an article by a certain Brendan O’Neill*. Perhaps O’Neill thinking Shayler stark raving mad under estimated him. It's also possible Shayler appeared better informed because he made up or distorted facts as "truthers" often do and he did in the video linked below**. Since he backs one of the more “fringe” theories it isn’t surprising to me the show would have gotten a lot of fringe callers. How many people who supported O’Neill got through? Do you really think as you seem to suggest that some of the “inside jobbers” here really are agents sent to make other conspiracists look bad? Peter and Jack since you seemed to agree with John’s suggestion I was wondering who amongst your fellow 9/11 CTists you think are the disinfo agents? (Rhetorical question since answering would probably violate forum rules). Len Such as the guy who runs 911myths.com . He is English and IIRC a Londoner. * http://www.newstatesman.com/200609110028 ** he also supposedly expresses similar views in this video but I didn’t have the patience to listen all the way through. http://www.nopers.com/video/398/david_shay...eblower_on__911 Like Jack you seem to think I was referring to the anti-conspiracists on the forum. I was not. My comments were aimed at those conspiracy theorists who contaminate the good name of good researchers by developing what I consider to be daft theories. I was not suggesting that the BBC lined-up nut-cases to support Shayler. All they did is to let the crackpots speak. The BBC always appears to be very fair by matching one supporter with one opponent phone-caller. The cheating comes with who they select to speak. The same was true of the BBC documentary on the so-called 9/11 conspiracy last night. The three supporters of the conspiracy who appeared were wide-eyed extremists. This included our old friend Jim Fetzer. The opponents were three very rational men who took a very scientific approach to the case. It was a "no contest". The conspiracy theorists would get very few converts from this programme. I agree completely. Sometimes an underlying event may be the result of a conspiracy (JFK assassination). Sometimes the investigation of it may be a conspiratorial cover-up (the WC, the Waco FBI and Congressional investigations, etc.). Sometimes there simply is no conspiracy, even though there may be coexisting evidence that a conspiracy could have happened.

1. The fact that JFK's brains, hair and scalp blew out the back of his head onto the trunk of the limo and the motorcycle cops. 2. The fact that JFK's head jerked violently to the rear, which is not indicative of a shot from the rear. 3. The fact that a mobbed up strip joint operator would put his own life at risk and, if he survived, go to prison or face the death penalty, to keep the first lady from having to testify in LHO's trial.

I will take the plunge after Sylvia Meagher's ACCESSORIES AFTER THE FACT and the recent Peter Dale Scott reprint. I received my copy last week and find the print to be challenging (think: "In God we trust" on a penny). I plan to tackle it after I complete Someone Would Have Talked (2d printing), which contains a wealth of knowledge.

Gil, Good to see a name from the past. I hope you will start posting regularly again- I respect your views a great deal. Vincent Bugliosi is a truly odd character. His book on the O.J. case was really excellent, imho, but was marred by a final chapter devoted exclusively to his dogmatic atheism, which really had no connection at all to the book he was writing. To those who haven't read it, you should do so. It provides some insight into the workings of his mind. Bugliosi was once the darling of RFK assassination critics. He conducted some solid research into the RFK case during the '70s, and many of us were rooting for him to win his race as California Attorney General, as he'd promised to reopen the RFK investigation if elected. He didn't win that election, and drifted away from RFK assassination research. He next appeared as the "prosecutor" in Showtime's "The Trial Of Lee Harvey Oswald" in the late '80s, revealing himself to be a hard-line LNer. I don't really know what to make of this complex man, but agree completely with you that his book is certain to be worthless, seeing as how he is trying to defend an impossiblity. I also won't be buying it. I can't believe that publishers still pay money to this guy. He tried a "can't lose" case 37 years ago, and still acts as if he is significant today. I recently re-read Helter Skelter and found it lacking in interesting detail regarding the Manson Family. I have done a good bit of reading on the Manson Family and murders, and The Family, by Ed Sanders (formerly of the Fugs 1960s rock/folk group) is outstanding and dwarfs Helter Skelter from an informational standpoint.

I share your concern. If anyone doubts the social consequences of societal breakdown, they need only consider what happened in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina when bands of armed thugs roamed, pillaged and looted New Orleans. That was certainly not a pretty sight, but it illustrates the advisability of being sufficiently armed to protect one's family and, if necessary, to hunt. I recommend the following as a good primer for disaster preparedness: http://www.theothersideofkim.com/index.php/lists/10115/ You will have to do a copy and paste to access the sight, because I don't know how to post a link.

Did you bother to read Blood Money and Power? Dawn I read it, but it was preposterous as it related to the JFK assassination. THe historical perspective, written by LBJ's legal counsel, was quite interesting inasmuch as it addressed LBJ's rise to power and the tawdry associations which enabled him to do so. It actually covered the Bobby Baker and Billy Sol Estes matters very well. But, the notion that Ed Clark, an evil powerbroker lawyer, managed to orchestrate the JFK assassination with the help of a loser/henchman named Mack (his last name escapes me) is well beyond belief and really adds little to what I have tried to learn about the assassination. McClellan's own professional and legal woes cast a good deal of doubt over the book, even if the thesis of it was not as implausible as it is.

EHH is just having a little fun in his old age trying to pass off a novel as nonfiction. This may be one of the few JFK assassination books I will not buy. It sounds as foolish as Blood, Power and Money by Barr McClellan.

My take on LBJ was that he, JEH and a few others got on the assassination 'boat' after the boat had left harbor.....they were 'on board' but hadn't hatched the plan. Hunt would know as he, IMO, was closer to the real planners and implementers..but would like to point fingers away from himself....and who is easier than a dead man.....what else is new?.... Forgive my naivete, but who is JEH? Thanks. Chris

Christopher, if you have the relative figures cited above, please provide them. I am very skeptical they spent even ten percent as much on Gates as they did Bin Laden. I, for one, wish they'd spent more energy going after Gates. It may have helped prevent the actions of Enron etc, and the subsequent theft of hundreds of billions of dollars from the American public by criminal businessman. If Microsoft isn't a monopoly then nothing is. They were about to be broken up, and should have been broken up, by the Clinton justice department until, viola, stolen election. Bill Gates' legacy is safe. No wonder Gates has the Bush entourage over to his joint East of Seattle every few months. People in Bellevue can't even turn around without tripping over the Heir Bush scuttling off to get his payoff from Heir Gates. Oh, and of course the taxpayers foot the bill each time he goes to Gates'--or anyplace--hat in hand. Predatory corporations are in fact a much bigger threat to this supposed democracy than mythical terra-ists. Especially given that 911 was an inside job done by the "gov't" for the benefit of large corporations. Clearly Clinton's priorities were in the right place. And there were 8 years of peace and prosperity as a result. The Blame-Clinton operatives always seem to forget that part. Pat- I don't have the figures on what Clinton spent on UBL, but I will try to find them. Clinton certainly passed, I think on 3 occasions, on the opportunity to kill or apprehend UBL, but didn't do so because he didn't think he could convict him in a court of law. I think that Sandy Berger actually advised Clinton to not take the Yemin (I believe) government's offer for this very reason. Why would we spend money on trying to get UBL if we didn't want him when he was offered to us for free? I simply don't think that apprehending or, preferrably killing, UBL was a priority to Clinton. I think that Reno spent about $100 Million going after MS and Gates. I am a little quizzical about the antipathy generated toward Gates, because his efforts helped create untold amounts of wealth and jobs which have transcended all aspects of the American and global economies. He and MS did exactly the opposite of what Enron, Global Crossing, Tyco etc. did. "No wonder Gates has the Bush entourage over to his joint East of Seattle every few months. People in Bellevue can't even turn around without tripping over the Heir Bush scuttling off to get his payoff from Heir Gates. Oh, and of course the taxpayers foot the bill each time he goes to Gates'--or anyplace--hat in hand." _ -Thanks for clearing that up for me. I was unaware of the friendship. When I think of Janet Reno, I think of her paramilitary pursuits with respect to Waco and Elian Gonzales and her quixotic pursuit of Gates and Microsoft.

Wiretapping Princess Diana is representative of our national intelligence and security priorities during the Clinton/Gore/Reno years. We spent more money pursuing Bill Gates and Microsoft than we did trying to find and eliminate UBL and AQ. I am sure that Hoover is smiling down (or, more likely, up) at this program.

I just ordered SWHT. I can't wait to read it. Thanks for the research and other hard work. -- Larry

Michael, I met Paul in DC and his testimony before Cynthia McKinney's Congressional Briefing last July was important. His Timeline book is also necessary to understand the events of 911. His Timeline is so detailed however and covers so many years and so much ground, it can do the opposite of what a Timeline is suppose to do, and make things that happen over time more clear. Here's my timeline on 911 which I did myself from the times mentioned and published in the 911 Commission Final Report. I will also post it over on the 911 Thread. A JFK Assassination Timeline is a necessity and a combined timeline would really be handy. BK NORAD – FAA Timeline – per 911 Commission Final Report 06:00 am – Mohamed Atta and Abdul Aziz al Omari board flight from Portland, Maine to Boston’s Logan International Airport. 06:45 am – Atta and Omari arrive in Boston. 06:45-07:40 – Atta (Business class 8D) and Omari (8G), w/ Satam al Suqami (10B), Wail al Shehri (1st class 2A) and Waleed al Shehri (1st class 2B), check in and board American Airline Flight 11 (AA11), Boston-LA, scheduled to deparat 7:45 am. At another terminal Shehhi (2B), Fayez Banihammad (2A), Mohamd al Shehri (6C), Ahmed al Ghamdi (9D) and Hamza al Ghamdi (9C) check in for United Airlines Flight 175, Boston-LA, set for 08:00 am departure. 06:52 am – Atta takes a 3 minute call from Marwan al Shehhi at another terminal at Logan. 07:15 am – Khalid al Mihdhar (12B) and Majed Moqed (12A) check in at the American Airlines ticket counter at Washington Dulles Airport for Flight 77 (AA77), DC-LA, followed shortly thereafter by Hani Hanjour (1st C 1B) and brothers Nawaf al Hazmi (5E) and Salem al Hazmi (5E). 07:35 am – Hani Hanjour places two carry on bags on the x-ray belt in the Main Terminal’s west checkpoint, followed by Nawaf and Salem al Hazmi to AA77. 07:58 am – UA175 departs gate at Logan Boston-LA; Captain Victor Saracini; First Officer Michael Horrocks, seven flight attendants, fifty-six passengers. 07:59 am – American Airlines Flight 11 (AA11) takes off - Boston – LA. Captain John Ogonowski; First Officer Thomas McGuinness; 9 flight attendants, full capacity 81 passengers. 08:01 am – United Airlines 93 (UA93) leaves gate at Newark- San Fran. 41 min. delay and doesn’t take off until 08:42, unaware of other hijacking. 08:10 am – AA77 scheduled to depart DC Dulles for LA. Captain Charles F. Burlingame pilot; David Charlebois First Officer; four flight attendants, fifty-eight passengers. 08:13 am – AA11 acknowledges instruction f/ FAA Boston Center (in New Hampshire) 08:13:30 am – AA11 hijacked. Pilot John Ogonowski activates talk-back button, enabling Boston controllers to hear cockpit conversations. 08:14 am – United Airlines 175 UA175 takes off for Logan Boston-LA. 08:14 am – Hijacking of AA11 begins, cruising altitude 29,000 feet. Daniel Lewin, seated behind Atta and Omari, is stabbed by hijacker, most likely Satam al Suqami, seated directly behind Lewin, an Israeli military officer. 08:15 am – AA11 fails to acknowledge FAA Boston Center O8:19 am – Flight attendant Betty Ong calls [Vanessa Minter] the AA Southeastern Reservations Office in Cary, N.C., via ATT airphone to report an emergency aboard the flight: “The cockpit is not answering, somebody’s stabbed in business class, I think there’s Mace – that we can’t breath – I don’t know, I think we’re getting hijacked.” Also two flight attendants stabbed. 08:20 am – AA11 turns of IFF (identify friend or foe) beacon signal. 08:20 am – AA77 takes off from Dulles IA DC – LA. 08:21 am – Boston air traffic controller reports to supervisor that something is seriously wrong. Follow SOP for “no radio” contact. AA11 off radar. 08:21 am – Vanessa Minter at AA North Carolina relays info to Craig Marquis, manager of AA ops center, Fort Worth, Texas. FBI logs onto call and tapes it. AA11 Flight attendant Amy Sweeney calls AA ground manager Michael Woodward, who takes notes. “Listen and listen to me very carefully. I’m on Flight 11. The airplane has been hijacked.” Gives seat numbers to four of five hijackers of Middle East descent and reports that two flight attendants have been stabbed and a passenger’s throat slashed. Woodward quickly identifies all four including Mohamed Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari. 08:23 am – AA dispatcher unsuccessfully tires to contact AA11. 08:24:38 am – AA11 transmits “We have some planes. Just stay quiet, and you’ll be okay. We are returning to the airport” Then after a pause, “….Nobody move. Everything will be okay. If you try to make any moves, you’ll endanger yourself and the airplane. Just stay quiet.” 08:24:40 am – FAA Boston Center Air Traffic Control (BCATC) notifies superior that AA11 hijacked. Manager of BCATC orders the tape of transmission “pulled” to determine if the transmission said “Planes” – as in plural. 08:25 am - Amy Sweeney calls American Flight Services Office in Boston and reports someone aboard flight is hurt, but is cut off. 08:25 am – FAA BCATC, per protocol, begins notifying chain of command that AA11 hijacked. 08:26 am – Ong reports that the plane was “flying erratically.” 08:27 am – AA supervisor Nydia Gonzales begins to listen in to Ong-Minter call. 08:28 am – FAA Boston Center ATC notifies New York Center ATC that hijacked AA11 is entering it’s airspace, heading south. 08:29 am – AA11 fails to acknowledge AA Boston; AA dispatcher notifies FAA Boston Air Traffic Control Center, already aware of the problem, because of AA11 radio transmissions. 08:29 am – Amy Sweeney reconnected to the AA office and begins reports to manger Michael Woodward, including seat numbers of hijackers so he immediately obtains their names. 08:30 am – Brigadier Gen. Montague Winfield leaves the National Military Command Center (NMCC) – the War Room at the Pentagon, and is replaced by Navy Capt., per arrangement from the day before. 08:31 am – FAA Command Center tells FAA Operations Center at FAA HQ of possible hijackings. 08:31 am – FAA Boston Center notifies NORAD (Lt. Col. Dawne Deskins) of AA11 hijacking. 08:33 am – UA175 reaches cruising altitude of 31,000 feet. Flight attendants begin cabin service. 08:34 am – FAA Boston Center – Air traffic controller makes telephone calls outside of chain of command to Otis ANG and 177th NJANG in Atlantic City, requesting fighter interceptors, unaware that NJANG in Atlantic City had been taken off alert more than two years earlier. 8:34 am – Two F-16s from the 177th NJANG are reportedly in the air making making practice bombing runs over the New Jersey Pine Barrens, and two F-16s are on the tarmac ready to take off on a practice bombing mission in upstate New York. They are kept on the runway and eventually ordered not to take off and return to base. They arm with air-to-air missiles and prepare to go up once armed. 08:34 am – Third transmission from AA11 : “Nobody move please. We are going back to the airport. Don’t try to make any stupid moves.” 08:37 – FAA Boston Center communicates with UA175 about AA11 and UA175 reports of suspicious transmissions. Last contact with UA175. 08:37:52 – FAA Boston Center notifies NORAD NEADS (North East Air Defense Sector) in Rome, New York : “Hi. Boston Center TMU, we have a problem here. We have a hijacked aircraft headed towards New York, and we need you guys to, we need someone to scramble some F-16s or something up there, help us out.” 08:38 am – NEADS responds: “Is this real-world or exercise?” FAA: “No, this is not an exercise, not a test.” 08:40 am – AA77 handed off routinely from DC to Indianapolis Center. 0840 am – NEADS senior tech. Jeremy Powell calls Otis ANG to upgrade their “readiness posture.” Maj. Daniel Nash (“Nasty”) and Lt. Col. Timothy Duffy (“Duff”) are notified “by colleague” about hijacking. 08:41 am – American Airline’s Operations Center declares AA11 a hijacking. 08:42 am – United 93 (UA93) takes off from Newark, N.J. to LA. Jason Dahl Captain; Leroy Homer First Officer; five flight attendants, thirty-seven passengers. 08:42 am – UA175 reports “suspicious transmissions” from another airliner were received while taking off at 08:14. Last communication with ground. 08:43 am – 08:46 – UA175 hijacked, stabbing both pilots, two passengers and a flight attendant. 08:44 am – Gonzalez loses phone contact with Ong. Sweeney reports to Woodward, “Something is wrong. We are in rapid descent…we are all over the place…We are flying low. We are flying very, very low. We are flying way too low…Oh my God we are way too low.” 08:44 am – Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld at the Pentagon says of terrorism, “Let me tell ya, I’ve been around the block a few times. There will be another event. There will be another event.” 08:46 am – (approx.) UA93 hijacked. 08:46 am – AA77 reaches cruising altitude of 35,000 feet. 08:46:40 am – AA11 impacts World Trade Center 1 (WTC1 North Tower) 08:46 am – CIA Director Tenent is told of the WTC “attack” over breakfast with former Sen. David Boren. Tenent : “You know, this has bin Laden’s fingerprints all over it.” 08:46 am – Two F-15s scrambled Otis ANG, Falmouth, Mass (Cape Cod) 153 miles out. 08:46 am – Two F-16s assigned to Andrews AFB, flying bombing practice mission over North Carolina, recalled to DC, 207 miles away. 08:46 am – FAA opens telephone line with Secret Service. 08:46 am – NORAD Command Capt. Micahel Jellinek reports telephone links established with the National Military Command Center (NMCC)- the war room at the Pentagon, Canada command, theater commanders and federal emergency-response agencies. 08:47 am – UA175 changes transponder codes, which went unnoticed for several minutes 08:48 am – First news reports that plane has hit the WTC1. Air Force Gen. Richard Myers, Vice Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, learns of WTC1 crash from TV report before entering a meeting with Sen. Max Cleland on Capitol Hill. 08:48 am – FAA New York Center reports to FAA HQ Command Center (Herndon, Va) that American Airlines (Dallas, Tx) reported in that one of their flight stewards was stabbed and hijackers in cockpit, unaware AA11 had crashed into WTC1. 08:50 am – FAA Indianapolis Center radios AA77. Acknowledged, last transmission. 08:51 am – FAA New York Center notices UA175 code changed. No radio response, and flight deviating from assigned altitude. 08:51 am – AA77 makes last routine transmission. 08:51:30 – 08:54 – AA77 hijacking takes place. 08:52 am – Fighters airborne from Otis, ordered to staging area south of Long Island, NY and into a holding pattern. 08:52 am – Lee Hanson, in Easton, Conn. Receives call form son Peter on UA175, “I think they’ve taken over the cockpit – An attendant has been stabbed, and someone else up front may have been killed. The plane is making strange moves. Call United Airlines – Tell them it’s Flight 175, Boston to LA.” Hanson then calls Easton PD. Flight attendant on UA175 calls United office in San Francisco and tells Marc Policastro the flight has been hijacked, both pilots killed and flight attendant stabbed, and hijackers flying the plane. 08:53 am – FAA NYC air traffic controller reports “we may have a hijack” re:US175. 08:54 am – FAA Indy notices AA77 deviates from flight plan. 08:54 am – Capt. Deborah Loewer, director of the White House Situation Room, traveling with Bush in Florida, receives message from WHSR about WTC1, and she informs Bush. 08:55 am – FAA NYC air traffic control (a women) notifies manager US175 probably hijacked, but FAA regional managers, discussing AA11, “refuse to be disturbed.” 08:56 am – AA77 transponder turned off, now off radar. No radio response. 08:58 am – UA175 turns around and heads for NYC. 08:59 am – UA175 passenger Brian David Sweeney calls wife and leaves message on her answering machine, calls mother, tells her plane hijacked. 09:00 am – Lee Hanson gets second call from son Peter on UA175. “It’s getting bad, Dad – A stewardess was stabbed – They seem to have knives and Mace – They said they have a bomb – It’s getting very bad on the plane – Passengers are throwing up and getting sick – The plane is making jerking movements – I don’t think the pilot is flying the plane – I think we are going down – I think they intend to go to Chicago or someplace and fly into a building – Don’t worry Dad – If it happens it’ll be very fast – My God, my God.” Hanson heard a women scream before the phone call was cut off. 09:00 am – AA Ex. VP Geral Arpey learns that communication lost with AA77, the second AA plane in trouble. He orders all AA planes on the ground in the Northeast to remain on ground. 09:00 am – FAA Indy notifies other agencies AA77 missing, believed crashed. 09:00 am – Pentagon moves its alert status up one notch to Alpha, United warns all aircraft of potential cockpit intrusion, Flight 93 acknowledges. 09:01 am – NYC calls FAA HQ Command Center (Herndon) “We have several situations going on here. It’s escalating big, big time. We need to get the military involved with us….we’re, we’re involved with something else, we have other aircraft that may have a similar situation going on here.” 09:02 am – NYC Center: “Alright, heads up man, it looks like another one coming in.” 09:03:02 am – US175 impacts WTC2 (South Tower) 09:03 am – Bush enters Florida school. 09:03 am – Gen. M. Winfield, (absent from his station at NMCC) later said, “When the second aircraft flew into the second tower, it was at that point we realized that the seemingly unrelated hijackings that the FAA was dealing with were in fact a part of a coordinated terrorist attack on the United States.” 09:03 am – Secret Service agents carry VP Cheney into basement to underground bunker; calls Andrews AFB and requests F-16s CAP, but Andrews off alert, not battle ready and must arm planes with air-to-air missiles. 09:03 am – Boston Center reports they deciphered the transmission, “I’m gonna reconfirm with, with downstairs, but the, as far as the tape…seemed to think the guy said that ‘we have planes.’ Now I don’t know if it was the accent, or if there’s more than one, but I’m gonna reconfirm that for you, and I’ll get back to you real qick, Okay?” 09:03 – NORAD receives calls from fighter units, “What can we do to help?” Marr replies, “I want it all. Get to the phones. Call every major National Guard unit in the land. Prepare to put jets in the air. The nation is under attack!” 09:04 am - Boston Center: “A second one just hit the trade center.” New England Region: “Okay, yea, we gotta get – we gotta alert the military real quick on this.” 09:05 am – FAA New York Center declares ATC Zero, no aircraft permitted to depart from, arrive at or travel through New York Center airspace until further notice. 09:05 am – Boston Center radios all aircraft of New York situation and to secure cockpits 09:05 am – AA77 reemerges on FAA Indy Center radar, east of last known position. 09:07 am – FAA Boston ATC requests FAA Herndon Command Center “get messages to airborne aircraft to increase security for the cockpit.” No evidence Herndon did this. 09:08 am – FAA Indy Center notifies Langley and W.V. State PD of possible crash. 09:08 am – NEADS learns of WTC2 impact and sends F-16s to Manhattan. “This is what I forsee that we probably need to do. We need to talk to FAA. WE need to tell em’ if this stuff is gonna keep on going, we need to take those fighters, put ‘em over Manhattan. That’s the best thing, that’s the best play right now. So coordinate with the FAA. Tell ‘em if there’s more out there, which we don’t know, let’s get ‘em over Manhattan. At least we got some kind of play.” 09:09 am – Langley F-16s placed at battle stations. 09:10 am – AA77 reenters DC airspace. 09:10 am – AA orders all planes on the ground nationwide grounded. 09:12 am – Passenger Renee May calls mother, tells her to alert AA of hijacking. 09:16 am – FAA informs NORAD Flight 93 hijacked. 09:16 am – Passenger Barbara Olson calls her husband Ted Olson, solicitor general of US, reporting the flight AA77 has been hijacked. Call cut off. 09:20 am – FAA Indy learns of other hijacked aircraft. 09:21 am – FAA reports to NEADS “I just heard a report that AA77 is still in the air, and it’s on its way toward – heading towards Washington.” 09:21 am – NY Port Authority closes all bridges and tunnels in NYC. 09:23 am – UA93 notified to beef up cockpit security. 09:24 am – FAA HQ CC Notifies NEADS of hijacking of AA77 – Dulles – LA 09:24 am – Three F-16s scrambled from Langley AFB, Hampton, Va. Fly east to staging area over the ocean. 09:25 am – Combat Air Patrol (CAP) established over Manhattan. Fuel now low, Langley planes considered as back-up. 09:25 am – Barbara Olson, passenger on Flight 77, calls husband, Theodore Olson at Justice Dept. again, mentions hijackers used knives and box cutters. Ted Olson tells wife of other hijackings. 09:25 am – FAA orders grounding of all commercial air traffic. 09:27 am – Chaney and Rice, in WH bunker, are told that an airplane is 50 miles out, bearing in. 09:27 am – UA93 passenger Tom Burnett calls wife, “They already knifed a guy. There’s a bomb on board. Call the FBI.” 09:28 am – UA93 at 35,000 feet, drops 700 feet. “Mayday” broadcast amid sounds of physical struggle in the cockpit. “Hey get out of here – get out of here – get out of here.” 09:29 am – UA93 acknowledges ATC radio transmission. Last pilot contact. 09:29 am – AA77 auto-pilot disengaged at 7,000 feet, 38 miles west of Pentagon. 09:30 am – Radio transmission “Get out of here, get out of here!” Transponder from Flight 93 goes off. 09:30 am – Hijackers of Flight 77 tell the passengers to phone home because “they are all going to die,” by hitting the White House. Barbara Olson calls husband Ted a second time, five minutes after first call. 09:30 am – No radio response from UA93. 09:30 am – Radar tracks Flight 77 30 miles from DC. 09:30 am – FAA’s Emergency Operations Center is up and running. 09:30 am – Secret Service call Chris Stephenson, flight controller at Washington airport tower, re: unidentified plane heading for DC, and he makes visual contact as it flies by Crystal City, Virginia, 30 out of DC. 09:30 am – Three F-16s from the North Dakota ANG 119th fighter wing, stationed at Langley are airborne over the Atlantic Ocean – Maj. Brad Derrig, Capt. Craig Borgstrom and Maj. Dean Eckmann. 09:31 am – Flight 93 cockpit transmission of flight attendent “Don’t, Don’t Please, I don’t want to die,” shortly before she is stabbed. 09:32 am – UA93 radio transmission: (probably Jarrah) “Ladies and gentlemen: Here the captain, please sit down and keep remaining seating. We have a bomb on board. So sit.” UA93’s flight data recorder that was recovered indicates the autopilot was instructed to turn the flight around and head east. Voice data recorder indicates a struggling female flight steward was killed in the cockpit at this time. 09:32 am – New York Stock Exchange closes. 09:32 am – FAA Dulles DC ATC observes target (later determined to be AA77) tracking eastbound at high rate of speed, notify Reagan airport and Secret Service. 09:33 am – C-130H military cargo plane, taking off from Reagan DC to Minnesota, identifies incoming unknown target as an American Airlines Boeing 757. 09:34 am – Tom Burnett calls wife a second time, “They’re in the cockpit,” he said, as he checked the pulse of the knifed, dead man in seat 5B (Mark Rothenberg). She tells him about the WTC. “Oh my God, it’s a suicide mission.” 09:34 – FAA Command Center tells FAA HQ that UA175 may have bomb on board. 09:34 am – NEADS contacts FAA CC DC re: AA11, and FAA reports AA77 missing. 09:34 am – Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport advises Secret Service of unknown aircraft heading in the direction of the White House; AA77 5 miles west-south-west of the Pentagon. 09:35 am – AA77 flys across Captitol Parkway at 400 + mph, crosses the Pentagon at 7,000 feet, makes a high speed descending turn, spirals in almost a complete circle and drops the final 7,000 feet in two-and-a-half minutes. 09:36 am – FAA Boston calls NEADS “Latest report. Aircraft…six miles southeast of White House, deviating away.” NEADS: “Okay, we’re going to turn it, crank it up, run them to the White House.” When NEADS discovers that Langley F-16s staged over the ocean instead of heading north as expected, he ordered them to DC, “I don’t care how many windows you break, Damn it, Okay. Push them back.” 09:36 am – FAA Cleveland Center asks FAA Command Center whether someone had requested military to launch fighters to intercept UA93. Cleveland Center offers to contact nearby military base. “Command Center replies that FAA personnel well above them in the chain of command had to make that decision and were working on the issue.” 09:37 am – Flight 93 passenger Jeremy Glick calls wife, describes hijackers as Middle Eastern, Iranian looking, who put on read headbands and ran into the cockpit. She tells him about the WTC. 09:37 am – Radar image of AA77 disappears from screen, four minutes from White House, six miles from Pentagon. 09:37 am – Defense Secretary Rumsfield is in the Pentagon meeting with Rep. Cox, watching TV, and says, “Believe me, this isn’t over yet. There’s going to be another attack and it could be us.” 09:37:46 am – AA77 impacts Pentagon. (Langley fighters 150 miles away). 09:38:30 am – C-130H pilot : “Looks like that aircraft crashed into the Pentagon, sir.” 09:38 am – Secret Service calls Andrews, “Get in the air now!” 09:39 am – Rumsfield went downstairs, outside and sees a young women sitting on the ground, bleeding who says to him “she could see people holding, drips going into people, IV of some kind, and she said, something to the effect, if people would, if someone could bring that person over, I could hold it.” (huh?). (He helps people into ambulances until 10:30). 09:39 am – FAA’s Cleveland Air Route Traffic Control Center overhears second announcement about bomb on board and plane. 09:40 ? – F-16s from 177th NJANG are armed and scrambled, ordered vector West, towards Pennsylvania, then north to New York City. Others from the 177th are scrambled and sent to DC, the first non-alert air wing to arrive at both cities. 09:41am – UA93 transponder turned off. Lost on radar. Passengers and flight crew from UA93 make GET airphone and cellular phone calls to 09:41 am – Passenger on Flight 93 Marion Birtton calls a friend and reports that two people have been killed and the plane turned around. 09:42 am – Passenger Mark Bingham calls home. 09:42 am - FAA Command Center learns of Pentagon plane crash, FAA’s National Operations Manager Ben Sliney, orders nationwide shutdown of all commercial air traffic 09:43 am – Bush’s motorcade arrives at Sarasota airport AF1. He learns plane has hit Pentagon. 09:44 am - Three F-16s from Langley are five minutes out from DC, flying at 650 (top speed: 1500 mph), armed with Sidewinder heat seeking missles. The pilot “Honey” hears a garbled message about Flight 93, and “White House and important asset to protect.” Neither Honey nor another pilot, Lew, are never given shoot down orders. 09:45 am - Tom Burnett calls his wife a third time, she tells him about Pentagon. He doubts hijackers really have bomb, and “a group of us are making a plan.” 09:45 am - Passenger Tod Beamer speaks with phone operator Lisa Jefferson from the back of the plane and talks for about 15 minutes, with FBI listening in. 09:45 am – FAA National Operations Mgr. Ben Sliney orders nationwide commercial air traffic shutdown. 09:45 am – White House evacuated. 09:46 am –FAA Command Center updates FAA HQ that UA93 was “twenty-nine minutes out of Washington D.C.” 09:47 am – Flight 93 passenger Jeremy Glick is still on the phone with wife, and says that the passengers are taking a vote on whether to try to take back the plane, and all the men say yea. 09:48 am – Capitol building begins evacuation. House Speaker, third in line after Chaney, is still there. 09:49 am – Three F-16s from Langley arrive in DC airspace and set up a Combat Air Patrol (CAP) over the Capitol. 09:49 am – FAA Command Center suggests that someone at HQ should decide whether to request military assistance. FAA HQ : “…scrambling aircraft?…FAA CC: “Uh, God. I don’t know…Uh, that’s a decision somebody’s gonna have to make probably in the next ten minutes.” FAA HQ: “Uh, ya know, everybody just left the room.” 09:50 am – Three F-16s from Andrews (Maj. Billy Hutchison, Lt. Col. Marc H. “Sass” Sasseville, aka “Lucky” arrive to support CAP, but only one is armed. 09:50 am – Flight 93 passenger Sandra Bradshaw calls her husband. They are filling pitchers with hot water to use against the hijackers. 09:53 am – FAA HQ informs FAA CC that DD for ATS was talking to Dept. Adm. Monte Belger about scrambling aircraft. UA93 lost over Pittsburgh. 09:53 am – The National Security Agency (NSA) intercepts a phone call from a bin Laden operative in Afghanistan to the Republic of Georgia “heard good news,” and another target is to come. 09:54 am – FAA HQ informed that visual sighting of UA93 placed it 20 miles NW of Johnstown. 09:54 am – Tom Burnett calls wife fourth time. “I know we’re all going to die. There’s three of us who are going to do something about it. It’s up to us. I think we can do it. Don’t worry, we’re going to do something.” They were waiting until they were over a rural area. 09:56 am – Air Force One airborne – AF Col. Mark Tillman pilot. Bush talks to VP Cheney by phone. Cheney recommends that Bush authorize the military to shoot down any planes under the control of hijackers. “You bet.” 09:56 am – F-16 pilots are told over the radio by Secret Service “I want you to protect the White House at all costs.” 09:57 am - ? A military aid to VP Cheney asks, “There is a plane 80 miles out. There is a fighter in the area. Should we engage? Cheney, “Yes.” 09:57 am – Todd Beamer ends his phone conversation “You ready? Okay, Let’s roll.” 09:57 am – Passenger assault begins. Fighting reported outside the cockpit of Flight 93. 09:58 am – CeeCee Lyles on phone to husband tells him they are forcing their way into the cockpit. Sandy Bradshaw tells her husband, “Everyone’s running to first class, I’ve got to go, Bye.” Male passenger calls 911 from bathroom on the plane. 09:58 am – Two jet fighters from Selfridge Michigan ANG ordered after Flight 93, without any weapons. 09:59 am – The South Tower of the WTC collapses. 10:01 am – Visual contact with UA93 seen “waving wings,” radical gyrations. 10:01 am – FAA requests F-16s from Toledo, Ohio scrambled, though off alert. 10:02 am – Hijacker says “Pull it down! Pull it down!…Allah is the greatest. Allah is the greatest.” 10:03:11 am – UF93 impacts the ground in Western Pennsylvania. 10:04 am – C-130H that witnessed Pentagon crash, reports black smoke from UA93 crash site. 10:05 am – Flight 93 begins breaking up before crashing. 10:06 am – NORAD diverts an unarmed Michigan ANG fighter to Pennsylvania. 10:07 am – Military liaison to FAA Cleveland Center notifies NEADS UA93 hijacked, unaware it had crashed. 10:08 am – Bush informed of crash of Flight 93. “Did we shoot it down or did it crash?” 10:08 am – White House surrounded by armed guards. 10:10 am – All military forces ordered to Defcon Three – Delta (highest alert in 30 years) 10:15 am – FAA Command Center advises FAA HQ that UA93 crashed. 10:16 am – Toledo fighters take off – 16 minutes after being called. 12:16 pm – Benjamin Sliney (FAA) announces that the air is clear of all commercial air traffic, and no additional hijacked planes aloft. xxxxyyyyzzzz Thanks for the great 9-11 timeline. I plan to refer to it as I read Paul Thompson's chronology of events this evening.

"Simple" is an accurate assessment of this book. Accepting his assessment what went on in Dealey Plaza requires that one completely ignore an incredible amount of CT evidence, which he simply chooses to do. His bullet trajectory hypotheses are interesting, but they are the only redeeming aspects of the book. Ironically, he did correctly solve one "Kennedy family murder" - the murder of Martha Moxley by Micheal Skakel.

My name is Christopher A. Hall. I am 50 years old, and I live in Knoxville, Tennessee. I am a tax attorney, and I have been practicing law for 24 years. I have been blessed with a wonderful wife (my college sweetheart), no children and a busy law practice. I am a practicing Catholic and a Eucharistic Minister in my church. My interests are exercise, collecting and shooting guns (I don't have a Carcano yet), literature, history, organized crime and the JFK assassination (including its historical context). I have enjoyed reading the information in the Forum, and I appreciate your letting me participate.