Chris Davidson

James, My reference would be to the 90ft distance laid out in CE560. In other words, the WC determined the two shots within CE560 were 90ft apart and a missed shot (total of 3) among that mix. Robert M. has a compressed matching set of 3 starting at Z313. I'm leaving out his described silent shot that occurred farther east up Elm, for now. You do now know that the 1st and 2nd lamp-posts are 90ft apart. I'm not trying to describe all shots, just what might set up a dual 3 shot scenario, within a certain time frame/distance span. chris

Robert Prudhomme Quote: The reason for them wanting us to believe their version is obvious; the event had to be lengthened out in order to give one gunman the ability to effectively load and fire a bolt action rifle 3 times. Mark Knight Quote: It shows that, the closer the WC came to the SBT, the more likely it was that any post-Z313 shots would "disappear. Nice summations gentlemen. If you combine these two quotes, you might get this result from start to finish. Shot 1 2 3 Shot 1 2 3 Two groups of three shots with a common shot (witness descriptions) among them. Or, Shot 1 2 3 Shot 2 1 Two groups, 5 shots with a common shot (witness descriptions) among them. Maybe James G. or Robert M. can chime in with some ballistics supporting earlier and/or later shots. chris

Start with Z313 as shot #1. Ike Altgens: The first shot: 1 of 3 The 2nd shot: 2 of 3 The shot "in between" The last shot: 3 of 3 Mr. LIEBELER - Could you tell us approximately how many shots there were between the first and the last shot--as you well know--there were supposed to have been three shots, but how many shots did you hear? Mr. ALTGENS - Well, I wouldn't want to say--I don't want to guess, because facts are so important on something like this. I am inclined to feel like that there were not as many as I have heard people say. I think it's of a smaller denomination, a smaller number, but I cannot--I can really only vouch for the two. Now, I know that there was at least one shot in between. Mr. LIEBELER - At least one? Mr. ALTGENS - I would say that--I know there was one in between. It is possible there might have been another one I don't really know, but two, I can really account for. Mr. LIEBELER - And that's the first one and the last one? A little later on: Mr. LIEBELER - So, it is clear from your testimony that the third shot--the last shot, rather--hit the President? Mr. ALTGENS - Well, off and on we have been referring to the third shot and the fourth shot; but actually, it was the last shot, the shot did strike the President and there was no other sound like a shot that was made after that. I was just going to make a conclusion here, but that's not my place to do that, so I'll just forget it--what I was going to say. Mr. LIEBELER - Well, what were you going to suggest--go ahead. Mr. ALTGENS - Well, it seems obvious now, when you think back on it--of course, at the time you don't reason these things out in a state of shock, but it seemed obvious to me afterwards that there wouldn't be another shot if the sniper saw what damage he did. He did enough damage to create enough attention to the fact that everybody knew he was firing a gun. Another shot would have truly given him away, because everybody was looking for him, but as I say, that's an obvious conclusion on my part, but there was not another shot fired after the President was struck in the head. chris

http://www77.zippyshare.com/v/87406160/file.html Mary Woodward would appear to agree with George Hickey. Starting 100ft down from where she was standing (CE2084) to shot #1= extent Z313 What did she see with the 2nd and 3rd shots? Watch Video. 2 of 3 and 3 of 3 chris

Mr. RANKIN - Can you give us the approximate location of where it was when you heard the second shot? Mr. CURRY - Well, it would have been just a few feet further because these shots were in fairly rapid succession. Mr. RANKIN - How many feet do you mean? Mr. CURRY - I would say perhaps, and this is Just an estimate on my part, perhaps 25 or 30 feet further along. Mr. RANKIN - Then at the time of the third shot? Mr. CURRY - A few feet further, perhaps 15-20 feet further. Mr. RANKIN - Do you have an opinion as to the time that expired between the first shot and the third shot? Mr. CURRY - This is just an opinion on my part but I would think perhaps 5 or 6 seconds. Mr. RANKIN - Did you hear any more than three shots? Robert's quote: "CURRY places limo when first rifle shot is heard at Z-313, followed by 2 more shots in rapid succession where the limo only moves another 15-20-30 feet further during the shooting." Robert, I am not addressing shots that came before Z313. I've made it clear that I am dealing with the 3 shot scenario, starting with Z313 as shot #1. I understand people lied. What would be the purpose for Kinney to reveal the limo was going 3-5 mph at the Z313 mark? What would be the purpose for Curry to estimate 30ft and 5-6 seconds? Did Curry say his head was blown away from the Z313 shot? Altgen's is standing approx 30ft farther down Elm and states directly in front is the last shot. The shot which blew JFK's head off. What's his reason for even introducing this if the official story is the last shot to JFK was at Z313? I can weed out the lies, but not all of them are . chris

And, I would agree with you, except the speed of the limo on film is not 3.74mph at the time of Z313. I would also agree that Kinney describes the first shot, but uses the word "fatal" headshot before the limo accelerated. Just substitute the word "last" of 3 shots for the word "fatal" Altgens does. Wooward does. The Connallys do. Numerous others do. What you see on film isn't always the truth. chris

Do you believe that JFK was also hit with the last shot ( #3 of 3) if starting with #1 at Z313? chris

Robert, There are ways to determine the speed. If you believe the Zfilm was altered, to what extent? I gave you an equation for it: 30.2ft/5.5seconds = 5.49ft per sec = 3.74 mph 5.5 seconds, see the testimony you previously supplied for Curry. 5.5 seconds, document CE560 Sam Kinney, imo, appears to agree with supplied equation. It's just a matter of how long it traveled at this speed and for what distance. chris

"It does not matter to me how fast the limo was traveling or how much it decelerated. It is most important to know that the limo began to slow significantly around Z-300 as evidenced by HARGIS and MARTIN overtaking the limo before being able to readjust their speed, right before the first rifle shot is heard, IMO GREER slowed to allow the transfer of HILL to limo and or as a reaction to CONNALLY laying down, GREER accelerated at Z-345 after the third rifle shot was heard." Z313-Z351 = 38 frames/30.2ft /18.3fps = 2.07 seconds = 30.2ft/2.07 seconds = 9.92mph average Do you believe the limo was traveling at the speed depicted at Z313 on the Z film? What do you believe the speed was? What damage if any, did the third rifle shot inflict? That would be counting the rifle shot at Z313, as the #1 shot, in the sequence of the last three. chris

Robert, What speed did the limo decelerate "from and to" at Z300? And, at what speed was it traveling from Z300- Z313 and Z313-Z351? What did you base this on? chris

Or, If you would like to apply this to the Curry testimony you have supplied, by all means, do so. 30.2ft/5.5 seconds = 5.49ft per sec = 3.74mph chris P.S. Might keep in mind, which shots Mary Woodward on TMWKK described as being the "exploding head shot". Altgen's for that matter, also.

Mr. CURRY - Then we heard this report. Mr. RANKIN - Now, how far along from the corner of Elm and Houston were you at the time of that? Mr. CURRY - I think we were perhaps a couple of hundred feet or so. Mr. RANKIN - How fast were you going then? Mr. CURRY - I think we were going between 10 or 12 miles an hour, maybe up to 15 miles an hour. Mr. RANKIN - Then what happened? Mr. CURRY - We heard this report, and then all of the tension that followed I have told you. Mr. RANKIN - Yes. Mr. DULLES - What was the distance between your car and the President's car approximately? Mr. CURRY - Mr. Dulles, I believe to the best of my knowledge it would have been 100, 125 feet. Mr. DULLES - Between your car and the President's car? Mr. CURRY - Yes, we stayed pretty close to them. In the planning of this motorcade, we had had more motorcycles lined up to be with the President's car, but the Secret Service didn't want that many. Station# 2+34.5 + 200ft = 4+34.5 = Curry position, reporting first shot Limo approx 100ft behind at Station# 3+34.5 Z313 head shot @ Station# 4+65.3 Distance from Limo to Z313 at first described shot = 130ft, via Curry's testimony. chris

I know exactly what they were trying to accomplish. Liebeler shows Altgens an aerial view and tells him they plotted his position as the white number 3. Why show him an aerial at all, when they could have just placed him in relation to the yellow mark on the curb in Z. They have moved Altgens position much farther east than where he actually was. Why? Because he said he took his picture almost simultaneously with the sound of a shot. So, if they moved his position farther east, relationally, he would think that shot occurred farther east also. Now, apply that to the situation you are presently discussing. chris Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir; and if I had a picture I could probably show you exactly where I was standing. I did show it to Agent Switzer, if that would be of any help to you. Mr. LIEBELER - Yes; I would like to locate that spot. I show you Exhibit No. 354, which is an aerial view of the area that we have been discussing. Mr. ALTGENS - This is the Book Depository Building, correct? Mr. LIEBELER - Yes. (The witness points to the School Book Depository Building.) Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car. Mr. LIEBELER - You have indicated a spot along the side of Elm Street which I have marked with a No. 3; is that correct? Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - Is that approximately where you were standing? Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir. Later on Mr. LIEBELER - Looking at Commission Exhibit No. 354, we have placed you at No. 3 on that picture. Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - In looking at Commission Exhibit No. 203, does it appear to you that 203 could have been taken from position 3 on Commission Exhibit No. 354 and only be 30 feet away from the Presidential car at that time--I'm not saying it wasn't--I mean, just what does it look like to you? The question I'm driving at, of course, is--I want to know--did you move from the time you took the first picture, which is Commission Exhibit No. 203, and the time you saw the President's head hit, did you move down the street at all?

Straightline distance between: Lightpost #1 = Station# 3+54.68 Lightpost #2 = Station# 4+44.68 A 90ft span. Station# 4+44.68 + 10ft = Station# 454.68 Or, now a total of 100ft span matching Mary's and/or the FBI's input. David supplied you with the trajectory and Elevation figures for a (Shot 2 from the SS/FBI Feb 64 plat). Elevation 419.07 = Station# 454.68. Mary was right on target if she said 100ft farther down Elm. This is approx 10.6ft away from Station# 4+65.3 = extant Z313. See Brehm and others. chris

Mary Woodward: Mary was standing near the first light-post, not the second light-post. See CE2084 Who said "1 to 2 seconds" later? Was it actually Mary, or did the FBI conveniently add this. Before you answer, think about this relationship. James said the 1st light post is approx Z197. Approx 2 seconds later in terms of 18.3 frames per sec = 197 + 37= Z234 See Dr.Shaw for 26 degree angle at Z236. Approx 2 seconds from the 2nd light post = Z272 + 37 = Z309 = See Z313 Those two light posts are 90ft apart. 100ft from the 1st light post is 10ft past the 2nd light post. chris

And, The previous post would rear its ugly head moving down the street as displayed on the SS/FBI plat. Shot#2 location, via trajectory, was placed at Elevation 419.07. Whereas, it was plotted at Elevation 419.70 Difference between 419.70 and 419.07 = .63 elevation x 18.3ft = 11.5ft See previous post for comparison difference of 11.5/12ft chris

Here is a more expanded version of Z207. It now includes the calculation for H.I. H.I. is a term used in surveying which means "Height of Instrument" The instrument in this case is the surveyors theodolite. For Z207, the "H.I." was 5.41ft above the ground when measuring angles back to the 6th floor (60.7ft ledge)TSBD. It was then dropped down 2.14ft (height determined of rifle end. above 6th floor ledge). And, in this case, is supposed to represent the top of JFK's head. After that drop of 2.14ft. the angle recorded at 21deg 50min equals the CE884 entry for Z207. Which means, the distance from the top of JFK's head, to the ground, is supposed to equal 3.27ft (see previous testimony from Mr.Kelley for contradiction). Elevation 427.02 - 3.27ft = 423.75=ground Difference between Elevation 423.09 (direct ground measure, previous post) and 423.75 WC shenanigans = .66ft .66ft x18.3ft = 12ft difference. Another part of pushing events eastward, back up Elm St. chris Mr. EISENBERG - Could you show the lead in that diagram, Mr. Frazier? Mr. FRAZIER - In Commission Exhibit 556, it shows a triangular diagram with the vertical line on the left-hand side illustrating the height of the building. The figures of a 60-foot building height plus-- Mr. EISENBERG - That is height of the muzzle above the ground? Mr. FRAZIER - No--window sill--60-foot window sill height above the ground, with an assumed 2- foot height in addition to accommodate the height of the rifle above the possible. the possible height of the rifle above the window sill. The horizontal line extends outward from the building to a small rectangular block, and then a sloping line illustrates a 5-foot slope from the 175-foot point to the 265-foot point.

I've always thought it was easier to cut through the WC bs and just start with a measurement to the ground from point "a" to point "b" For instance: Zframe 207 = Station# 3+71.1 = 121.1ft from Station# 2+50 = street location aligned with the WC snipers nest = Elevation 429.7 Formula for 3.13 degree Elm St descent = 18.3ft horizontal/1ft vertical 121.1/18.3ft = 6.61ft vertical change 429.7 - 6.61ft vertical change = Elevation 423.09 chris

David, This might help others. The entire Zfilm including the pre-limo footage (132 frames@18.3fps = 7.21 seconds) is 486 frames. 486/18.3 frames per sec = 26.55seconds 26.55sec + 7.21sec = 33.76 sec So, if one were to include an extra 7.21seconds segment of limo coverage, then the 33 second version might ring true for that particular document. chris

TSBD 6th floor window ledge = 60.7ft 60.7ft + 4.37ft ( Z171 measured from street ) = 65.07ft Survey Zframe 207 (measured to the top of JFK's head) = 65.05ft chris

TSBD= Station# 2+50 CE884 Z171= Station# 3+30.1 Distance = 80.1ft Conversion equation: 18.3ft horizontal/1ft vertical 80.1ft/18.3ft = vertical change of 4.37 ft 4.37ft x 12 inches = 52.44 inches Refer back to JFK determined head height above ground. chris

Mr. SPECTER. I ask you to state what that album depicts. Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is an album that I prepared of black and white photographs made of the majority of the frames in the Zapruder film---- Mr. SPECTER. Starting with what frame number? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Starting with frame 171, going through frame 334. Mr. SPECTER. And why did you start with frame 171? Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is the frame that the slides start from. This was an arbitrary frame number that was decided on as being far enough back to include the area that we wanted to study. Mr. SPECTER. Is that a frame where President Kennedy comes into full view after the motorcade turns left off of Houston onto Elm Street? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes, yes. Mr. SPECTER. And how was the ending point of that frame sequence, being No. 334, fixed? Mr. SHANEYFELT. It was fixed as several frames past the shot that hit the President in the head. Frame 313 is the frame showing the shot to the President's head, and it ends at 334. I think Shaneyfelt needs a little help with his testimony. Let me translate. Frame 171 was the last frame used having the limo travel at 3.74mph (CE884- Z168-171entry), starting from Position A. Keep the above in mind over these next few posts. Mr. KELLEY. The officials at Hess Eisenhardt, who have the original plans of the President's car, conducted a test to ascertain how high from the ground a person 72 1/2 inches would be seated in this car before its modification. And 132 Page 133 it was ascertained that the person would be 52.78 inches from the ground--that is, taking into consideration the flexion of the tires, the flexion of the cushions that were on the car at the time. Mr. SPECTER. When you say 52.78 inches, which individual would that be? Mr. KELLEY. That would be the President. Mr. SPECTER. And what part of his body? Mr. KELLEY. The top of the head would be 52.78 inches from the ground. When Mr. Anderton was placed in the followup car, it was found that the top of his head was 62 inches from the ground. There was an adjustment made so that there would be--- the stand-in for Governor Connally would be in relatively the same position, taking into consideration the 3-inch difference in the jump seat and the 2-inch difference in his height. chris

Earlier, I introduced two ratios to keep in mind when trying to wade through this. 18.3/24 = .7625 and 24/18.3 = 1.31 The frame span from Z168-255 is 87 frames, with Z168 being the starting point from the CE884 data chart. 87 frames x .7625 = 66.3 frames If I add those 66.3 frames to Z168, I'm now at Z234.3 or Z235 rounded to next whole frame. So, using an 18.3frames per scenario, starting at Z168, the Altgens described shot circa Z255 is at approx Z235. Dr Robert Shaw please. Mr. SPECTER - Dr. Shaw, have you had an opportunity today here in the Cornmission building to view the movies which we referred to as the Zapruder movies and the slides taken from these movies? Dr. SHAW - Yes. Mr. SPECTER - And what, if any, light did those movies shed on your evaluation and opinions on this matter with respect to the wounds of the Governor? Dr. SHAW - Well, my main interest was to try to place the time that the Governor was struck by the bullet which inflicted the wound on his chest in reference to the sequence of the three shots, as has been described to us. (At this point the Chief Justice entered the hearing room.) This meant trying to carefully examine the position of the Governor's body in the car so that it would fall in line with what we knew the trajectory must be for this bullet coming from the point where it has been indicated it did come from. And in trying to place this actual frame that these frames are numbered when the Governor was hit, my opinion was that it was frame number, let's see, I think it was No. 36. Mr. SPECTER - 236? Dr. SHAW - 236, give or take 1 or 2 frames. It was right in 35, 36, 37, perhaps. chris Referring to Dr.Shaw's testimony above, I would have asked these direct questions to help Specter clarify it for the rest of us. 1. How many Zapruder movies did you view? 2. What was the trajectory? 3. What physical location in the TSBD did it come from? 4. What actual frame did you place at 236? 5. Would you be more inclined to place the shot from the west end of the TSBD, if the downward angle at 26 degrees aligned with a location farther west down Elm St than the frame 236 location you have chosen? Hypothetically of course!!! chris