Chris Davidson

Betzner sync frame or +1 frame. chris

In this gif, I have stabilized the chair on the sidewalk to the left of Jim Towner. If possible, play this frame by frame. If not, take note of Jim Towner's feet as he steps into his matching position in Betzner. Also, watch the leg movement of Mrs. Towner as she spreads her legs apart. I'm pretty sure this is a sync with Betzner's photo. chris http://98.155.2.255:8400/F5AD0/Dorman1.gif

Dean, If you have a camera handy, set up to take a picture in Landscape mode (normal position) camera horizontal. Now turn the camera 90 degrees either left or right. Take a look at your elbows in both positions Now look at Betzner in Dorman taking photo #2, does it look familiar to your stance. Betzner#2 was suppposedly shot in Portrait mode, camera vertical Elbows are wrong for Portrait mode. chris Chris, I think you're probably seeing Betzner winding his film. No winder arm, just a dial. Most people had to move the camera into a somewhat horizontal position to advance the film. As in "I have an old camera. I looked down real quick and rolled the film to take the next picture." Best to you, Jerry Jerry, I believe I can pinpoint the moment in time when Betzner takes his corner photo. I'll do this step by step. Take a look at Betzner's photo first. The feet and arm position of Jim Towner and the leg position of his wife will be the sync points. Not to sure about Tina yet!!! chris

Thanks to Jerry, Dean and Cliff for giving me the frame sync on Betzner #3. 186,187 or 188 puts me back to 153-154-155 + approx 33 frames. Will do some frame/shift comparisons among these. A little later. chris

Dean, If you have a camera handy, set up to take a picture in Landscape mode (normal position) camera horizontal. Now turn the camera 90 degrees either left or right. Take a look at your elbows in both positions Now look at Betzner in Dorman taking photo #2, does it look familiar to your stance. Betzner#2 was suppposedly shot in Portrait mode, camera vertical Elbows are wrong for Portrait mode. chris

Dean, VOLUNTARY STATEMENT. Not Under Arrest. Form No. 86 SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22 day of November A.D. 1963 personally appeared Hugh William Betzner, Jr., Address 5922 Velasco, Dallas, Age 22 , Phone No. TA 7-9761 Deposes and says: I was standing on Houston Street near the intersection of Elm Street. I took a picture of President Kennedy's car as it passed along Houston Street. I have an old camera. I looked down real quick and rolled the film to take the next picture. I then ran down to the corner of Elm andHouston [sic] Streets, this being the southwest corner. I was standing back from the corner and had to take the pictures through some of the crowd. I ran on down Elm a little more and President Kennedy's car was starting to go down the hill to the triple underpass. I was running trying to keep the President's car in my view and was winding my film as I ran. I was looking down at my camera to see the number of the film as I ran. I took another picture as the President's car was going down the hill on Elm Street. I started to wind my film again and I heard a loud noise. I thought that this noise was either a firecracker or a car had backfired. I looked up and it seemed like there was another loud noise in the matter of a few seconds. I looked down the street and I could see the President's car and another one and they looked like the cars were stopped. Then I saw a flash of pink like someone standing up and then sitting back down in the car. Then I ran around so I could look over the back of a monument and I either saw the following then or when I was sitting back down on the corner of Elm Street. I cannot remember exactly where I was when I saw the following: I heard at least two shots fired and I saw what looked like a firecracker going off in the president's car. My assumption for this was because I saw fragments going up in the air. I also saw a man in either the President's car or the car behind his and someone down in one of those cars pull out what looked like a rifle. I also remember seeing what looked like a nickel revolver in someone's hand in the President's car or somewhere immediately around his car. Then the President's car sped on under the underpass. Police and a lot of spectators started running up the hill on the opposite side of the street from me to a fence of wood. I assumed that was where the shot was fired from at that time. I kept watching the crowd. Then I came around the monument over to Main Street. I walked down toward where the President's car had stopped. I saw a Police Officer and some men in plain clothes. I don't know who they were. These Police Officers and the men in plain clothes were digging around in the dirt as if they were looking for a bullet. I walked back around the monument over to Elm Street where they were digging in the dirt. I went on across the street and up the embankment to where the fence is located. By this time almost all of the people had left. There were quite a few people down on the street and crowded around a motorcycle. I was looking around the fence as the rumor had spread that that was where the shot had come from. I started figuring where I was when I had taken the third picture and it seemed to me that the fence row would have been in the picture. I saw a group of men who looked like they might be officers and one of them turned out to be Deputy Sheriff Boone. I told him about the picture I had taken. Deputy Sheriff Boone contacted superiors and was told to bring me over to the Sheriff's Office. Deputy Sheriff Boone took my camera and asked me to wait. I waited in the Sheriff's Office and some time later, an hour or two, he brought my camera back and told me that as soon as they got through with the film and they were dry that they would give me the film. A little later he came in and gave me the negatives and told me that they were interested in a couple of pictures and implied that the negatives was all I was going to get back. To the best of my knowledge, this is all I know about this incident. /s/ Hugh William Betzner, Jr. Subscribed and sworn to before me on this the 22nd day of Nov A. D. 1963 /s/ Aleen Davis Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas How many pictures did Betzner take on the corner, before he runs down to where we see him in Z.? And would that change in arm position indicate he changed his camera orientation from landscape to portrait? chris

John, Who was working on the film after the WC was finished and before Groden made his copy? chris

From frame 157 thru 160 there appears to be a major camera shift and film damage, at the point when Betzner has raised his arms up to his face. I believe the Betzner photo was taken somewhere between 190-195. Someone can probably come up with an exact frame. The difference in frame count between these two occurances is: Approx 33 frames. chris

Robin, From what I remember, Groden made a copy of a supposed original back in the 60's. So I must assume that the MPI version was damaged after Groden made his copy. We have MPI's which is supposed to be reproduced from the original. What are the chances in approx 480 frames, that we get a major shift in frames at the point where the original was later damaged. Chances are slim and none That the succeeding few frames are blurry. At 18 frames a second, the normal movement between frames is approx. 1/8-1/16 of an inch. Watch Betzner's arm movement very closely, before cut frame 157 appears. chris

Robin, My match for the shadows. If I'm correct, we need an explanation why the 2 ladies shadows between "suit guy in Betzner" and (shadows 1+2) do not appear in Betzner's photograph. Their shadows extend continuously out past suit man into the street. chris

Jack, You are correct. She ends up very near Betzner's photo position in Z. This is why I thought she was Betzner in the Martin film. I think she most likely took a photo too. So let's see if I can build on this. Here is Groden's uncut version stabilized. Starting with frame 135. At frame 158 you will see frame numbers appear briefly, please pay attention at that time, to the frame shift right. chris

You're right Robin, They are not the same person. Woman on left leads Rosemary in Dorman. Woman on right matches color outfit with Z woman. Blue top-brown bottoms and red shoes. chris

David, Sorry if that was confusing. Forget about the gif. I'm only describing what's in the latest photo collage I provided. chris

Thanks David, Playing devil's advocate once again, let's see if this leads anywhere. The lady in the blue dress, who leads Rosemary around the wall, whom I have named as the person in the Martin film, not Betzner. She has a camera. When she gets to the end of her run in Dorman, she heads toward the street and we pick her up in Martin. She also ends up in very close proximation to where Betzner is, in Dorman and Z. Who is she? Do you believe she took a photo at that time? chris http://98.155.2.255:8400/E2624/Blue_Dress.png

Duncan, I believe that to be Rosemary's sister. Robin gave us a confirmation. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=191276

I solved the Betzner mystery and it wasn't much of one. Once again, I have to admit that I was WRONG. That IS NOT Betzner in the Martin film The girl in the blue dress, who leads Rosemary around the wall is the person we see in Martin's film. Watch the gif, after Rosemary passes her, she heads under the post toward the street. You can barely see the top of her head going in that direction. Then watch the guy in the suit(on the right) start to lean. My apologies to all. I still believe the timing isn't correct, but I can't prove it with this . Back to tracking Rosemary and counting frames for now. http://98.155.2.255:8400/5D1C9/Master2.gif chris

Playing devil's advocate here. The only other person I have found, other than naming Betzner, is the girl with both arms up to her head. She has on a blue jacket and brown skirt. She starts out right near the rounded part of the wall at Z133. Push her 33 frames back. I just don't believe her head /hair matches the person in Martin's film. Timing wise, I believe this to be the only other possibility. chris

In keeping with the approx 33 frame theory: If the initial start up frame from Z is lighter than the succeeding frames (this is a proven fact) as I have experienced this with my own B/H 414, would this hold true at another point in the film. Here is an example: http://98.155.2.255:8400/5D8C1/FRAMES.png Frame 1 (the initial start up frame). is lighter than frame 2. When we get to frame 186, there is a definite overall lightening of the frame. Might this actually be a start up frame? Frame 154 is the beginning of the damaged/repair area. Frame 153 + 33 frames = frame 186 Coincidence? chris

Jack, What Z frame would you say JFK is directly in line with Jean Hill? From that frame, imagine the limo position 33 frames prior. Would 33 frames prior, coincide with Jean's head orientation when the limo is directly in line with her. In other words, if she's looking northeast in Z when the limo is directly in line with her, then yes this would follow the rule. chris

Thanks Jerry, Yes, that was a simple question of positioning the limo 33 frames prior to where we see it in Z133 or Betzner's photo. Martin H. is perfecting a plat with Rosemary's position. I have put a frame from Martin's film with JFK in it, just before they go past the corner,out of sight from Martin. Martin H. has shown where Rosemary is last seen in Martin. Which is about 6 frames prior to seeing JFK in the same spot This location is actually before Z starts filming at 133. chris

A few more thoughts. 33 frames (1.83 seconds) is not enough time for 2 shots from the carcano. Z313 + 33 frames later. Had to hide the shot by Altgen's. Ghost images would be undisturbed, with alteration on the limo mainly. Be cognitive of where the breaks are in multiple films in relation to the corner of Elm and Houston. Bell, Dorman, Towner, Martin. chris

If I understand your argumentation correctly, than that means the limo sequence was inserted into an background (and maybe foreground), which is two seconds in the past. Or the other way around: compared to the background the limo is two seconds in the future... If this is true, than that would be a big breakthrough... KK Karl, The limo in the extant Z film is 33 frames ahead of where it should be. David Healy pretty much shows the process of how to do it with this document. http://98.155.2.255:8400/8DF84/Healy_Technical_Aspects.pdf chris

Jerry, What happens to the limo position in Betzner if it is moved back 33 frames? chris

For Tom Purvis, Tom, I think I know why West established his control point where he did and why the HSCA used the exact location on Drommer, but relabeled it as 100 T/C. Maybe that's where the limo was in the original film before they advanced it in the extant film. From 100 to 133. chris

Thanks Ian, Actually I've just begun. When the SS did there investigation, they plotted the position of JFK through out the entire sequence from Houston onto and through Elm. This is represented by the limo and red lines which connect JFK at each position, turning onto Elm. Myer's plat is the base with his version of the turning radius including the yellow arrows. If you want to hide time and distance related to the limo, best place to do it is in a curve. chris