Chris Davidson

Agreed. The ghost image cycle has to be one of the two cycles flanking JFK's side. chris "The ghost image cycle has to be one of the two cycles flanking JFK's side." NOPE! An error in logic there Chris. Merely that it can not be either of those two motorcycles as seen on the left-hand (Jackie's)side of the car. Now, if one assumes no alteration whatsoever to the Zapruder film, then of course the correct answer would be that it would have to be created by the image of a motorcycle which was on the right-hand (JFK's) side of the limousine. However, in event that one were to assume some slight "tinkering" with the Z-film and it's "Ghost Image", then one could assume that it could be of a motorcycle from either side of the street. And it is of course most curious that the background surrounding this "Ghost Image" shows nothing but the green grass, with absolutely no indications of the light grey background of the road bed or any white striping affecting the tint of the green surrounding areas. http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z321.jpg P.S. As you may be aware, this Ghost Image is attributed as being the front fender of Officer Chaney's motorcycle. Tom, Point well taken. Since you mentioned the lane divider within the ghost image area, would that divider( which is a part of the adjacent frame) show a different angle between curbline and lane divider. chris

Of course one could also cut Groden's frame into vertical strips, resize them "horizontally only", merge them back to a complete frame and see if some of that warping disappears. Which doesn't put that window shadow back in, among other things. chris

Warping which causes the shadow area of the window to disappear. They both appear to be full frames. RGB readings very similar in common areas of each photo. (red boxes). The color holds in Groden's, not in Z. chris

Agreed. The ghost image cycle has to be one of the two cycles flanking JFK's side. chris

Frank, How about this comparison instead? chris

Robin, MacNeil probably means in the Darnell film. He's runs on the sidewalk right behind Altgens. imo chris

The frame on the top left is from Groden's uncut version and at right is the MPI version.(so called original). That black vertical pole and vertical box to it's immediate left, on the corner of Houston and Elm seems very troublesome. I guess I wasn't the only one having problems keeping objects level to the horizon. Of course, that's if you believe the background is the same, also. chris

Jack, Here you go. chris

Chris...instead of twisting YOUR frame, leave your frame level and TWIST THE Z FRAME T FIT YOURS. That will show Mary and Jean both listing badly to portside instead of being ERECT like frozen turkeys. Jack Jack, How about this instead. Panning a car going down Elm St. chris

I don't get it... What I see is exactly what Wiegman's film showed and that was Hester hurrying over to the colonnade presumably so to look out the windows. The Bell film captures Hester just before he got off the ground and someone walking into the colonnade area. The Wiegman film is shot at a different angle, thus the walking man isn't visible in Wiegman's film. So what don't you understand? Bill, Maybe this will help. Charles Hester is at the colonnade and Beatrice is starting to rise. This is about the same moment in time between both frames. That is a newspaper in front of Beatrice. Take a look at the Couch film and you'll see one of them pick the paper up. Bronson also shows them with a newspaper. chris

Another one for positioning. chris

Frames for Bill. No, I did not scale my frames. My comparison consists of both frames captured as scaled 4/3. Then had to change the aspect ratio on my frame only to: 110W x 105 H to fit existing Z frame. In this case, I'm more concerned about the relationship between sprocket holes to main frame. chris

Not sure what you meant by the link, so it looks like we both don't know what in the hell you are ever talking about. Hesters - grainy film??? The FBI had the car traveling at a rate of about 11" per Zapruder film frame. Refresher course for Bill. Why don't you take a look at Groden's best version of Bell, and see if you can find Charles Hester running in it. chris

Frank, Z pans the car down Elm. At 10mph or less, the focal point is almost out of the frame, directly in front of him. As Craig likes to say, test it out yourself. Bill, Still working on a solution to: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=165150 I see. I know enough to bring Hester out of the shadows with what you refer to as grainy/lousy film. While you're at it, let us know the distance traveled between Z161-166. Craig, I guess in your perfect world, I wouldn't have to rotate(.5CW) this frame to get it to conform to your specs. But common sense to most dictates that they are sprocket holes and frames from a 8mm camera. So sorry they are having such a detrimental affect on you. chris

I guess we need to know what your definition of altered is. The process of converting 8mm film to a digital image is an alteration. Which is exactly what was done in this case. Fact: Chris filmed from pedestal with B/H 414 camera. Fact: Chris had film developed by "Dwayne's Photo" in Parsons, Kansas. One of the few I could find in the U.S that still develops 8mm film, back in 2004. Fact: Chris had it converted to DVD by "SunRay Video" in San Diego, CA. http://www.sunrayvideo.com/film_transfer.htm Fact: Chris imports the VOB files from the DVD into a movie player (Quicktime, etc.etc). Fact: Chris either exports or screen captures individual frames to post on the forum. He does not perform interframe rotations. Perhaps a step in the 8mm to digital format transfer is causing the effects which Craig refers too. Otherwise, you probably believe I shaved about 1/8 of an inch off the top sprocket hole, which has nothing to do with the street/cars. chris

Craig, You can either have the movie or the frames. On the left is what it appears as, when playing in Quicktime. Notice the movie controller. On the right is a snapshot of it. Your effort to insinuate I have altered my original film is ludicrous. Now would you care to misinform others about what's between these sprocket holes. Why the rotation is the same. etc etc etc. I figured I'd alter these frames too, which I never intended to show. Get Real No, the frames have not been altered. Your reading of them is. chris

I tried to deliberately mislead everyone by exporting frames from movies I had taken. Then posted the actual film clips themselves. OK Then I cut and pasted the frames at a different angle from the sprocket holes. Right Added the pin-cushioning affect. Sounds good Put it all back together to try and fool Craig. Didn't work Dream a little dream. What does this have to do with Z keeping the limo even close to centerframe at 10mph? chris

Craig, That frame would be in this segment. http://72.130.171.242:8400/B2227/1.mp4 I guess I tampered with this too, because I put it in mp4 format so others on the forum can access it. Sounds like you're reverting to unfounded accusations. Any other footage you would like to see. chris

BTW Chris, what the heck did you do to the scan of rhar "vertical pole scan? Its rotated clockwise almost 2 degrees based only on the gate edges and the sprocket holes, but then again those are all warped and mis-shaped. In other words you scan is near USELESS. WHo were you trying to fool? No Craig, It was exported from one of the many filming segments. Just like the film provided. Speaks volumes. The car goes downhill. The film shows it going downhill. The person filming, pans from left to right and downward, as a car coming towards and past, goes downhill. What a concept. chris

For those interested, Here's a segment from one of the many I took, while on the pedestal with a B/H 414. http://72.130.171.242:8400/14207/CAR.mp4 chris

Unlike you I'm not ignorant enough to think a comparison of the panning ability of two different people many years apart has any validity. Your expectations of the performance by Zpruder was unmet, BFD! Your expectaions are meaningless. You ever spend any time working in a photofinishing house that did consumer film processing? Ever stood at the end of the dryer and watched the thousands of cut off heads, tilted horizons, poorly focused or photos marred by massive camera movementt? If you have that experience then your opinion and conclusion might have a TINY BIT OF WEIGHT...TINY! However it would carry NO weight as evidence .... You are down to 50 cents. BTW Chris appears your wonderful recreation frame might be 3-5 degrees over rotated in the clockwise direction IF the signs and posts are anywhere near true vertical. Great panning ! Craig, Not really interested in conjecture. Or your film processing scenario's. It has nothing to do with the issue at hand. I guess the focal point of Zapruders film, according to you, should be street signs, poles etc.etc. That's about what we get from the film. Until you show us some footage from your pedestal experiments, there is nothing more to say. In regards to verticality, well the pole is and the road heads downward. chris

Craig, I'm pretty sure the residents of Zimbabwe recognize Elm St. goes downhill. You encourage others to recreate examples for comparison, yet when the result is starkly different, you write it off as "filmed by an amateur". Please show us your pedestal footage. In fact, the offer extends to everyone. Let's see what other amateur/ even professional results look like. And while we're waiting, I'll provide them with another comparison example(from the pedestal) of a car traveling downhill. A Z difference of 6 degrees CCW at this point. Follow that curbline. chris

Oh yea, I've got your picture.... Good. Now, Zapruder was so inept at filming, even with the limo traveling at approx 10 mph, right in front of him, this is where it ends up within the frame,compared to cars traveling at approx 40 mph. Now, move those limo participants into their approx proper location. Much better!!!! Getting them closer to center frame. A little more realistic. The SUV which rides higher than the limo, would put the limo occupants even closer to center frame. chris

Whoever shot the film had troubles around frame 348, at least according to the extant film frame count. http://72.130.171.242:8400/D8852/ZFRAMES.gif With the the curb being stabilized, from 333-347 there is a nice flow. From 348-352(excluded) we get garbage. Then back to a smooth flow from 353. Tom has picked apart(understatement of the year) the WC and supplied us with information which includes a shot near Altgen's. The young man to Altgen's left, is diving at this point in time. In Nix, other's are backing away. Get the picture!!!! chris

Some would have you believe there is nothing to be gained by enhancing less than desirable images. Yet, in applying the same tonal correction method which reveals Mr.Hester in motion, from out of the Bell film shadows, it also reveals someone in the pergola. Also, the animation with Z in it, apparently shows a figure which blocks the light coming through the pergola opening. If you choose to believe that's Zapruder, that's your prerogative. No hat and a lot of hair. imo chris