Duane Daman

No wonder the police considered the Trias murders to be a professional hit.. The killings only became the work of some petty thief after that farce of a trial took place. The victims were first discovered by their handyman, who let himself into their home .. Jose Trias and his wife Julie Noel Gilbert were handcuffed and shot once in the back their heads .. Hardly the MO of a lone petty thief. Even the alleged DNA evidence was inconclusive nonsense that the defence claimed was manufactured by the prosecution. "An Anne Arundel County judge ruled yesterday that DNA evidence may be used against Scotland E. Williams, the man charged with killing two Arnold lawyers in May. The evidence comes from microscopic cells scraped from a drinking glass found in the victims' kitchen. According to the tests, the cells are from Mr. Williams' mouth, prosecutors say. Judge Eugene M. Lerner rejected arguments by Mr. Williams' lawyers that the tests took too long and that the results were too unreliable to be used as evidence." http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1994-11-15/news/1994319023_1_dna-williams-case-williams-lawyers By Dennis O'Brien | Dennis O'Brien,Sun Staff Writer | February 28, 1995 "Scotland E. Williams, accused in the shooting deaths of two Washington lawyers in their weekend home in Winchester on the Severn, may be a thief, but he is no killer, Craig M. Gendler told an Anne Arundel County jury yesterday. Mr. Gendler, Mr. Williams' defense lawyer, said the prosecution's evidence may show that Mr. Williams drove one of the lawyer's cars, used her bank card and was wearing her watch when he was arrested, but it can't place him inside the house where she was killed. Mr. Williams, 31, of Arnold went on trial on first-degree murder charges yesterday in the deaths of Jose Trias, 49, and Julie Gilbert, 48. The lawyers died of single bullet wounds to the backs of their heads." Execution style murders, with absolutely no evidence that Williams ever pulled the trigger.. Williams was found guilty at his second trial with evidence as flimsy as the prosecution's "lone shoe print" and some very confusing and questionable microscopic DNA "evidence", that was even presented by both the prosecution and the defense because it was so inconclusive. Can anyone say "Patsy" Williams?

Your color coding needs some work .. You put my replies in red, along with your questions .. I never bolded your comments.. The bolded comments were my replies to you. Your evidence that Williams murdered those victims also needs some work .. In fact, it's as flimsy as the prosecution's evidence was .. Williams admitted to robbing the victims .. He never admitted to murdering them, nor was there any evidence produced by the prosecution proving that he pulled the trigger .. Nor was any murder weapon ever found... The "forensic evidence" consisted of some highy questionable, microscopic DNA and one alleged lone shoe print, both of which appeared to be manufactured by the prosecution team. I can't believe the jury got sucked into believing Williams staged a professional hit just because the police never found any other convenient suspects to blame for those murders.

I've never owned a web site, so I don't know the answer to that question. Instead of sending an e-mail to the DoD Network Operations Centre, asking that question, why didn't you send an e-mail to the person who made those claims? .. There's plenty of info online on how to reach him. I highly doubt the DoD would even admit they visited Carnicom's web site.

That's a meaningless comparison, but I'll bet you still won't see it. The video I posted not only showed low altitude spraying but the eyewitnesses stated the plane looked to be at around 4,000 feet.. Did you watch the wrong video? Calling the researchers "chemtrailers" is as condescending as calling 911 researchers "truthers"... Also, putting "chemtrails" in quotes is a way to persuade the reader into believing they don't really exist, when all the evidence proves they really do. Here you go with the old "persistent contrails" thing again.. Please give it a rest..Repeating this constantly is not a rebuttal to the existence of chemtrails. Tony8 was NOT wrong, he was just in the minority on that disinfo site.. No replys from the brainwashed masses showed him to be wrong either. There you go with the "chemtrailers" thing again.. Chemtrail researchers like Will Thomas, Carnicom, and Rense are not the ones falling for the disinformation and the faked videos, nor are they the ones promoting the disiformation and faked videos.. "Debunkers" like "Uncinus" are the ones promoting the disinformation.. He proved that by pretending to debunk all of Caricom's evidence, along with legitimate chemtrail videos. Of course I read that site .. That's how I know it's disformation .. I even read all of the comments there.. That's how I know Tony8 was right and that the "debunker Uncinus", who presents all the garbage on that web site, is wrong.

If chemtrails don't really exist, then why all the government and military interest in one of the top researcher's web site? Anyone who has seen the evidence and still believes chemtrails are not a frightening reality, is either in a complete state of denial or being purposely dishonest. Chemtrails - Top Intel, Military, & Defense Contractors Watching Carnicom.com From Clifford Carnicom www.carnicom.com "Let it be noted that some of the recent visitors to this web site include: (Let it also be noted that United States government computer systems are to be used for Official Business purposes only.) 1. Desert Research Institute in Nevada (weather modification research institution) (repeat visits) 2. Fort Lewis Army Military Base in the state of Washington (home of special forces air squadron) 3. Lockheed Martin (aviation and space defense contractor) (repeat visits)(repeat repeat visits) 4. Los Alamos National Laboratory (repeat visit) 5. Allergan Pharmaceutical Corporation (Allergy Pharmaceutical Research Company) 6. Alliant Techsystems (Space and Strategic Defense Systems contractor) 7. Raytheon Defense Systems (Defense Contractor) (repeat visit)(repeat repeat visit)(repeat repeat repeat visit) 8. BOEING AIRCRAFT COMPANY (100 visits minimum) 9. United States Defense Logistics Agency (supplies and support to combat troops) 10. Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Tuscon AZ (home of 355th Wing)(repeat visits)(repeat repeat visits)(repeat repeat repeat visit) 11. Dept of Defense Naval Computer and Telecommunications Area Master Station 12. U.S. Naval Sea Systems Command 13. Western Pacific Region of the Federal Aviation Administration, Lawndale CA. (repeat visit)(repeat visit) (repeat visit) 14. National Aeronautics and Space Administration Langley Research Center (10 visits minimum) 15. United States Environmental Protection Agency (20 visits minimum) 16. St. Vincent Hospital, Santa Fe New Mexico 17. HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, THE PENTAGON 18. United States Department of the Treasury (repeat visit)(repeat visit) 19. United States Department of Defense Educational Activity 20. ANDREWS AIR FORCE BASE, PROUD HOME OF AIR FORCE ONE 21. United States Federal Aviation Administration 22. United States Naval Research Center, Washington D.C. 23. Rockwell-Collins (U.S. defense contractor) 24. Honeywell (U.S. Defense Contractor) (repeat visit) 25. Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Dayton OH (repeat visit)(repeat repeat visit) 26. Kadena Air Force Base, Okinawa, Japan 27. Camp Pendleton, United States Marine Corps (mandatory US Defense anthrax vaccination program described at www.cpp.usmc.mil)(repeat visit)(repeat visit) 28. Ames Research Center, NASA (one of primary missions is to research ASTROBIOLOGY, i.e., the study of life in outer space) (repeat visit) 29. Space Dynamics Laboratory, Utah State University, North Logan, Utah 30. Merck (Pharmaceutical Products and Health Research) (repeat visit) 31. McClellan Air Force Base, Sacramento, CA. (The Sacramento Air Logistics Center at McClellan Air Force Base, California performs depot maintenance on the KC-135 Stratotanker aircraft and is heavily involved in space and communications-electronics.) (repeat visit) 32. TRW (U.S. Defense Contractor) (repeat visit) 33. Teledyne Brown Engineering (U.S. Defense Contractor) 34. United States Navy Medical Department 35. Air National Guard, Salt Lake City, Utah 36. Monsanto Company(Chemical, Pesticide, and Pharmaceutical products) (repeat visit)(repeat repeat visits) 37. U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs 38. Arco Chemical Corporation 39. Sundstrand Aerospace (U.S. Defense Contractor) 40. National Oceanic and Atmospherics Administration Aeronomy Laboratory (conducts fundamental research on the chemical and physical processes of the Earth's atmosphere) 41. Allied Signal Corporation(chemical, aerospace, energy) (repeat visit)(repeat repeat visit)(repeat repeat repeat visit)(repeat repeat repeat repeat visit) 42. Aviation Weather Center, National Oceanic and Atmospherics Administration 43. United States Army Medical Department (repeat visit) 44. NASA Goddard Space Flight Center 45. Applied Physics Laboratory, a research division of John Hopkins University, which supports the U.S. Defense Department 46. United States Naval Health Research Center, San Diego, CA 47. HEADQUARTERS, UNITED STATES ARMY, THE PENTAGON 48. United States General Accounting Office (The General Accounting Office is the investigative arm of Congress. GAO performs audits and evaluations of Government programs and activities.) 49. Bristol-Myers Squibb Company (Pharmaceutical Research and Development) 50. United States Naval Criminal Investigative Service (A worldwide organization responsible for conducting criminal investigations and counterintelligence for the Department of the Navy and for managing naval security programs. ) 51. National Computer Security Center (NCSE) (Involved in advanced warfare simulation) 52. The Mayo Clinic (repeat visit) (repeat repeat visit) (repeat repeat repeat visit) 53. The Federal Judiciary (home of the United States Supreme Court) 54. United States Federal Emergency Management Agency(Controls a comprehensive, risk-based, emergency management program of mitigation, preparedness, response and recovery.)(repeat visit) 55. United States Naval Surface Warfare Center, Crane IN (repeat visit)(repeat repeat visit) 56. United States National Guard Public Affairs Web Access (no public access to this site) 57. UNITED STATES SENATE (repeat visit) (repeat repeat visit) (repeat repeat repeat visit)(repeat repeat repeat repeat visit) 58. Headquarters, United States Air Force Reserve Command 59. Kaiser Permanente health organization 60. United States Naval Warfare Assessment Station 61. Air University, United States Air Force 62. United States Naval Research Laboratory (repeat visit) 63. Enterprise Products Partners L.P. (MTBE production) 64. United States Navy Naval Air Weapons Stations, China Lake CA 65. California Pacific Medical Center 66. United States Defense Information Systems Agency (mission: "To plan, engineer, develop, test, manage programs, acquire, implement, operate, and maintain information systems for C4I and mission support under all conditions of peace and war." ) 67. Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, New England 68. San Francisco Department of Public Health 69. BJC Health System, St. Louis, Missouri 70. United States Open Source Information Systems(OSIS)(an unclassified confederation of systems serving the intelligence community with open source intelligence) OSIS sites include: (AIA) Air Intelligence Agency, Kelly AFB, San Antonio, TX IC-ROSE (CIA) Central Intelligence Agency, Reston, VA (DIA) Defense Intelligence Agency, Washington, D.C. (NSA) National Security Agency, Ft. Meade, Laurel, MD (NIMA) National Imagery & Mapping AgencyFairfax, VA (NAIC) National Air Intelligence Center, Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, OH (NGIC) National Ground Intelligence Center, Charlottesville, VA (MCIC) Marine Corps Intelligence Center, Quantico, VA (NMIC) National Maritime Intelligence Center, Office of Naval Intelligence, Suitland, MD (ISMC) Intelink Service Management Center, Ft. Meade, Laurel, MD (repeat visit) 71. New Mexico Department of Health 72. United States Space and Naval Warfare Systems Command (SPAWAR) 73. United States McMurdo Research Station, Antartica 74. Orlando Regional Healthcare System, Florida 75. United States Andersen Air Force Base, Guam 76. United States Misawa Air Base, Japan 77. United States Hickam Air Force Base, Hawaii 78. United States Osan Air Force Base, Korea 79. Royal Air Force, Lakenheath, Suffolk 80. United States Scott Air Force Base 81. United States F.E. Warren Air Force Base 82. United States Air Force News Agency 83. United States Langley Air Force Base (repeat visit) 84. United States Tinker Air Force Base 85. United States McConnell Air Force Base 86. United States Charleston Air Force Base 87. United States Randolph Air Force Base 88. United States Air Force Reserve Command 89. United States Seymour Johnson Air Force Base 90. United States Bolling Air Force Base, Washington DC 91. Keesler Air Force Base, MS 91. United States Hill Air Force Base 92. United States Vandenberg Air Force Base, California 93. United States Minot Air Force Base, North Dakota 94. United States Eielson Air Force Base, Alaska 95. ANDREWS AIR FORCE BASE, PROUD HOME OF AIR FORCE ONE (repeat visit) 96. HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, THE PENTAGON (repeat visit) (Visitors 75-96 arrived within a 24 hour period 9-23-99) 97. United StatesCannon Air Force Base, New Mexico 98. United States McQuire Air Force Base 99. United States Beale Air Force Base (home of the U-2 fleet of reconnaisance aircraft) 100. United States Department of Justice - Federal Bureau of Prisons 101. Metnet - United States Navy (associated with weather reporting system and SPAWAR) 102. TRADOC - United States Army Training and Doctrine Command, Fort Monroe, VA 103. Newsweek Magazine 104. United States Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency 105. Massachusetts Medical Society, Owner - Publisher : New England Journal of Medicine 106. OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: THE OFFICE OF WILLIAM S. COHEN, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE (repeat visit) 107. HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, THE PENTAGON (repeat repeat visit) 108. UNITED STATES JOINT FORCES COMMAND (reports to US Secretary of Defense) (repeat visit) 109. Naval Warfare Assessment Station, Corona, CA 110. Los Angeles County Emergency Operations Center 111. Commander in Chief, United States Pacific Fleet, United States Navy 112. HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, THE PENTAGON 113. Defense Logistics Agency, Administrative Support Center in Europe 114. United Stated Department of Defense Network Information Center, Vienna, VA (repeat visits) 115. Office of the Assistant Secretary of the Army 116. Headquarters, United States Air Force, The Pentagon (repeat visit) 117. U.S. News and World Report 118. Naval Air Warfare Center - Aircraft Division (repeat visits) 119. New Zealand Parliament 120. HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, THE PENTAGON (multiple repeat visits) 121. NIPR - Department of Defense Network Operations (NIPRNet); The Defense Information Systems Agency (DISA) has established a number of NIPRNet gateways to the Internet, which will be protected and controlled by firewalls and other technologies.) (repeat visits) 122. Peterson Air Force Base, Colorado Springs, CO (home of NORAD and SPACECOM) 123. Raytheon (visits immediately after introduction of HAARP implications) 124. United States Army War College" http://www.carnicom.com/conright.htm

"Yes Duane scientists - including, biologist even micro ones, get murdered, commit suicide and die in accidents. So do English teachers, antiques dealers, musicians and military officers as well as shoe-shine boys, school teachers, secretaries and seamstresses." Lots of people get murdered, but English teachers, antiques dealers, musicians, shoe-shine boys, school teachers, secretaries and seamstresses don't work for top secret black programs.. Scientists and micro biologists do. "You really need to keep up, Williams was reconvicted at his 2nd trial, appealed again but his 2nd conviction was upheld." Apparently the info I read was out of date. "LHO was never even indicted let alone faced trial, Williams was convicted twice." So what? .. They both played the roles of patsys. "Williams admitted to robbing the victims and is the last person know to have seen them alive, there was considerable forensic evidence linking him to the crime scene which claimed never to have been to." Williams never admited to the murders.. Some lying convict that he was incarcerated with made that claim.. Williams always claimed he was innocent of killing the victims, but he did admit to stealing their car and an ATM card. "Testimony on confession contradicted March 08, 1995|By Dennis O'Brien | Dennis O'Brien,Sun Staff Writer A convicted murderer told an Anne Arundel County Circuit jury yesterday that another inmate lied on the witness stand when he said Scotland E. Williams admitted killing two Washington lawyers. Mark Anthony Wheelton told jurors that Mr. Williams "never said anything" during a conversation among inmates last June. On Friday, Carl Spoon testified that Mr. Williams had told him that he had killed Jose E. Trias, 49, and Julie Noel Gilbert, 48, for their Acura Legend. Mr. Williams, 31, of Arnold is accused of fatally shooting Mr. Trias and Ms. Gilbert in their weekend home in Winchester on the Severn on May 16. Prosecutors are seeking the death penalty in the first-degree murder case, which is being heard before Judge Eugene M. Lerner. The state rested its case yesterday after six days of testimony from 36 witnesses, including five police officers, six evidence technicians, 10 scientific experts and the defendant's mother. In the first day of defense testimony, Wheelton contradicted Spoon's recollection of a discussion among inmates. Spoon, a landscaper convicted of felony theft and battery, testified Friday that he discussed with Mr. Williams the need to be "prepared for God" and that Mr. Williams responded by admitting that he killed Mr. Trias and Ms. Gilbert. But Wheelton said that he took part in that conversation and that Mr. Williams just sat back and listened. Wheelton said Mr. Williams, Spoon and he were in adjacent cells at the time. "What Mr. Spoon said about Mr. Williams wasn't true," Wheelton told jurors." http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1995-03-08/news/1995067055_1_spoon-trias-testimony "I have no idea why you think this is relevant." It was relevant in explaining that the Howard Hughes Medical Institute is the largest philanthropy in the US and possibly the most influential sponsor of biomedical research in the world. "I don't consider Ruppert a credible source and even he only says CIA black-op funding "has long been alleged." Just because you don't consider him to be a credible source doesn't mean he isn't. "Perfect example of the crack(pot) researchers you depend on "Long-time biowarfare invstigator Patricia Dole, Ph.D." Her last name is Doyle." You've never made a typo or spelled somebody's name wrong? .. Just because the "y" was left off her name, doesn't make someone's a "crackpot researcher". "reports that there is a history of people connected to HHMI being murdered" There's "a history" but the author could only cite 2!" Only 2 murders is 2 too many. " "The next day, Trias and his wife were found dead in their Chevy Chase, Md. home." No they were found dead in their vacation home 40 miles away, in Winchester-on-the-Severn, MD." Semantics .. It was still their home. ".."Police describe the killings as a professional hit." BS, they described it as a robbery and arrested killer within days." What was BS was framing some two but petty theif for their murders... Just because he was in possesion of their stolen property doesn't prove he murdered them.. He never admitted to the crime. ".."Tsunao Saitoh, who formerly worked at an HHMI-funded lab at Columbia University, was shot to death on May 7, 1996" He worked there 1982 - 5*, i.e. for only 3 years, 11 years before the crime. If he knew something why did it take them over a decade to kill him?" Maybe he was getting ready to spill the beans on their top secret black projects, like Jose Trias was right before he was murdered. ".."HHMI is headquartered in Chevy Chase, Maryland, and employs more than 2,900 individuals across the U.S"* If we count all the people who ever worked their the number will be much higher. Some of these people will be murdered." Since several already have been murdered, I have no doubt more will be added to that list.. So we finally agree on something.

WRONG! .. The fact that the military conducted several secret chemical tests on unsuspecting populations years ago, only proves they are capable of doing the same thing today.. Obviously people are expendable experiments to the military's agenda, since many of the people they've made ill, have also died from their toxic chemical operations.. In the past and also today. I've already provided that proof through eyewitness testimonies and video recordings of the chemtrail planes conducting their spraying operations.. You just choose not to believe that evidence. It doesn't matter what some people claim .. It also doesn't matter that some contrails can persist because it has been proven repeatedly that they are NOT the same thing as chemtrials. You obviously can't debunk the reality of chemtrails, so you just keep repeating the same lame "persistent contrail" excuse over and over again.. It's really getting boring having to reply to the same nonsense repeatedly.. Maybe you should try to find some new "debunking" material. No, what's faulty is your "debunker's" analysis.. Like I mentioned before, there are certain people working very hard to suppress the truth about the chemtrail spraying operations taking place today. Here's a reply to your source's faulty analysis of that Arizona chemical air grab test. Written by TonyB on October 16, 2008. "It’s not worth my time to find the correct thread, but everyone should have this information: As Uni debunks a number of stories and tests he does so with made up information. Presented with an air analysis he says you’re off by a factor of 1 million because you got 1g out of 1 tonne of air. He proves this the same way he says chemtrail people prove their theories; he creates his own information and presents it as fact. Knowing nothing of the actual methods used, nor using logic in his own interpretation, he arbitrarily comes up with his numbers. So answer this… why would a 1 hour hepafilter collect 1g of product while a 28 day 8 hours a day ALSO collect 1g of product? And during your calculations, you assume 80(whatever units) processed by the filter, without any consideration that 1. it could be less, you pick 80 as a guess 2. as the filter fills up, especially if it’s going thru a vacuum process to get as much air as possible it will have a significantly decreased efficiency over time. His primary debunking of chemtrail pictures? “They look like contrails to me.” He doesn’t even know how jet contrails are supposed to form… When confronted with the fact that all contrails are poisonous chemical exhaust, he says ‘you obviously don’t know how contrails form – they are frozen WATER, water is a chemical so you can call them chemtrails if you want’ How intelligent, NASA would disagree with him. The name of this site should be changed to ‘contrailnonscience’ His science consists of ‘there is a 99.999999% chance chemtrails don’t exist.’ Not a single professional and respected scientist would even make such a conclusion that something doesn’t exist. Period." Only "debunkers" like "Uncinus", Colby, you (along with a few of your other pals here) claim that chemtrails don't exist, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The trick with "debunkers" like "Uncinus", is the fact that he takes obvious video hoaxes, along with obvious disinformation, and then mixes the fake stuff together with real evidence and real tests.. He then rolls all of this "debunking evidence" up into one big ball and then pretends to debunk all of the evidence.. It's one of the oldest (not to mention most transparent) disinfo tricks in the book!

You consider 1,000 feet to be about the same as ground level? .. Your world view really does cloud your judgement then. What the military released 50 years ago might not have been the same thing as today's chemtrails, but the toxins were just as dangerous to people's health. It's not all that difficult to tell when aircraft are flying below 30,000 feet .. You keep harping on that high altitude because the altitude needed to form contrails is usually over 25,000 feet.. but as I have said many times now, CHEMTRAILS ARE NOT THE SAME THING AS CONTRAILS. There is no "ignorant misconception" about contrails .. All of the chemtrail researchers know exactly what normal contrails are and at what altitudes they form.. Again, chemtrails are not the same thing as contrails.. So if anyone has any "ignorant misconceptions" about this subject it would be you, since you obviously don't understand the difference between contrails and chemtrails. Your arguments are ridiculous .. Nobody is "afraid of clouds" .. They are afraid of the toxic chemicals that have been found in the fallout from chemtrails.. "Chemtrails - Lab Report On Air Grab Thru HEPA Filter Bridget Conroy ArizonaSkyWatch.com 6-8-8 This is the final Lab Report RE: air material analysis. This was a 28 day collection via HEPA filter, 8 hours per day collection. Please note the extremely high Aluminum reading 12,800,000 ppb. The actual lab report is below." http://www.rense.com/general82/chemm.htm

If you consider the brutal murders of these scientists, along with many others, as being "silly theories", then you really do need a reality check. "Dr. Ian Langford, 40, found dead at his blood-spattered and ransacked home. Langford was a Senior Fellow at the Univ. of East Anglia's Centre for Social and Economic Research on the Global Environment in the UK. He was discovered by police and ambulance men. The body was naked from the waist down and partly wedged under a chair. Cause of death: not determined by post-mortem examination." "Harvard biochemistry professor Don C. Wiley has been declared missing after his abandoned rental car was discovered on a highway outside of Memphis, Tenn. The car,discovered on I-40—which runs between Memphis and Arkansas—had the keys in the ignition, the hazard lights off and a full tank of gas." "Award-winning micro-biologist David Wynn-Williams, 55, killed by a vehicle while out jogging in England. In 2000 he was appointed leader of the Antarctic Astrobiology Project, which explores the effects of environmental stress at the limits of life on Earth. Wynn-Williams had assessed the capability of microbes to adapt to environmental extremes, including the bombardment of ultraviolet rays and global warming." "Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, a Norwich Free Academy graduate, 56, died May 14, 2004 after being beaten to death during an alleged robbery. Mallove appeared on Coast To Coast AM as recently as Feb. 2004 speaking about alternative energy. Mallove was well respected for his knowledge of cold fusion." http://www.infinite-energy.com/ "Jeong H. Im, retired protein chemist, age 72, was found in the burning trunk of his car with mutlitple stab wounds to the chest." "Tsunao Saitoh- Tsunao Saitoh was a leading Alzheimer's researcher. He and his 13 year-old daughter were killed in La Jolla, California, in what a Reuters report described as a "very professionally done" shooting. He was dead behind the wheel of the car, the side window had been shot out, and the door was open. His daughter appeared to have tried to run away and she was shot dead, also." "Victor Korshunov- Victor Korshunov was an expert in intestinal bacteria of children around the world. He was bashed over the head near his home in Moscow." "Robert Leslie Burghoff- Robert Leslie Burghoff was studying the virus that was plaguing cruise ships until he was killed by a mysterious white van in November of 2003. Burghoff was walking on a sidewalk along the 1600 block of South Braeswood when a white van jumped the curb and hit him at 1:35 p.m. Thursday, police said. The van then sped away. Burghoff died an hour later at Memorial Hermann Hospital." "William T. McGuire- William T. McGuire was a NJ University Professor and Senior programmer analyst and adjunct professor at the New Jersey Institute of Technology in Newark. His dismembered body was found floating in three suitcases in the Chesapeake Bay." "Dr. Eugene F. Mallove - Mallove was well respected for his knowledge of cold fusion. He had just published an open letter outlining the results of and reasons for his last 15 years in the field of new energy research. Dr. Mallove was convinced it was only a matter of months before the world would actually see a free energy device. He Died after being beaten to death during an alleged robbery." "Caroline Coffey, 28. Died June 3, from massive cuts to her throat. Hikers found the body of the Cornell Univ. post-doctoral bio-medicine researcher along a wooded trail in the park, just outside Ithaca, N.Y., where the Ivy League school is located. Her husband was hospitalized under guard after a police chase and their apartment set on fire." "Dr. Mario Alberto Vargas Olvera, age 52. Died: Oct. 6, 2007 as a result of several blunt-force injuries to his head and neck. Ruled as murder. Found in his home. He was a nationally and internationally recognized biologist. Died 2006" "Jeong H. Im, age 72. Died: January 7, 2005. Korean Jeong H. Im, died of multiple stab wounds to the chest before firefighters found in his body in the trunk of a burning car on the third level of the Maryland Avenue Garage. A retired research assistant professor at the University of Missouri – Columbia and primarily a protein chemist, MUPD with the assistance of the Columbia Police Department and Columbia Fire Department are conducting a death investigation of the incident. A “person of interest” described as a male 6′–6′2″ wearing some type of mask possible a painters mask or drywall type mask was seen in the area of the Maryland Avenue Garage. Dr. Im was primarily a protein chemist and he was a researcher in the field. Died in 2004" "Dr. Eugene Mallove, age 56. Died: May 14, 2004. Autopsy confirmed Mallove died as a result of several blunt-force injuries to his head and neck. Ruled as murder. Found at the end of his driveway. Alt. Energy Expert who was working on viable energy alternative program and announcement. Norwich Free Academy graduate. Beaten to death during an alleged robbery. Mallove was well respected for his knowledge of cold fusion. He had just published an “open letter” outlining the results of and reasons for his last 15 years in the field of “new energy research.” Dr. Mallove was convinced it was only a matter of months before the world would actually see a free energy device." "William T. McGuire, age 39. Found May 5, 2004, last seen late April 2004. Body found in three suitcases floating in Chesapeake Bay. He was NJ University Professor and Senior programmer analyst and adjunct professor at the New Jersey Institute of Technology in Newark. He emerged as one of the world’s leading microbiologists and an expert in developing and overseeing multiple levels of biocontainment facilities." " 'Dr. Roger' Died: Summer 2003. 'Roger' was pseudonym for this genetics scientist. He was 17 and lived in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947 when the unexplained object crashed. He told a woman he worked with in 1977 named 'Kate' while employed by the Navy, who he helped to clean up the crash site of the 1947 UFO. He subsequently went to work for the government at this young age and ended up a geneticist working in China Lake for the Navy. Although he lived in fear and hiding soon after he told his story to Kate, he retired in late 1990s or early 2000's and she saw him again once in early 2002 in San Diego. He told her she was in danger to talk to him and he left the store. In 2003 she received a phone call from his 'friend' who said he had been executed in his retirement home in Connecticut. The body had been removed by a black government looking vehicle. The home had been cleaned up and the body removed without any public notices of his death or existence. Many disfigured and abnormal animals were found in the desert near Groom Lake during his time there and after. Kate thought he might have been doing this gruesome experimental work." "Dr. David Wynn-Williams, age 55. Died: March 24, 2002.Hit by a car while jogging near his home in Cambridge, England. He was an astrobiologist with the Antarctic Astrobiology Project and the NASA Ames Research Center. He was studying the capability of microbes to adapt to environmental extremes, including the bombardment of ultraviolet rays and global warming." "Dr. Tsunao Saitoh, age 46. Died: May 7, 1996. Shot and killed, along with his young daughter, in LaJolla, California. He was dead behind the wheel of the car, the side window had been shot out, and the door was open. His daughter appeared to have tried to run away and she was shot dead, also. The hit was compared to other killings of Japanese in this country by muggers. Expert in abnormal proteins in Alzheimer." The Williams' verdict of guilty was overturned.. He is now presumed innocent, unless proven guilty in a new court of law. Do you keep missing this reply or do you just keep ignoring it? The evidence suggests that it was no random robbery that took out Jose Trias and his wife .. It appears that the two bit petty thief Scotland E. Williams played the role of Lee Harvey Oswald in this little charade. The Howard Hughes Medical Institute With an endowment of more than $11 billion, the Howard Hughes Medical Institute is the largest philanthropy in the US and possibly the most influential sponsor of biomedical research in the world. Choppin was its president from 1987 until the end of 1999. Its first grants were made in 1988. He is one of those peculiar Lasker entities, a virologist who doesn't care about viral causes of chronic disease, who channeled its funds into genetics research instead. HHMI History / Howard Hughes Medical Institute "The $11.8 billion medical research organization currently supplies about 22 percent of all nonprofit research support in biomedicine, funding some 331 investigators at 71 institutions, said Choppin. It has spent more than $5 billion since 1985 on its five areas of specialty: cell biology and regulation, immunology, neuroscience and structural biology; a new field -- computational biology -- is just emerging... 'This is small compared to the NIH budget, but substantial in terms of private support,' he said... While NIH is far and away the world's largest supporter of biomedical research, with a just-won FY 2000 budget of almost $18 billion, the government has not always been the principal funder of basic science. Choppin noted that in 1930, half of the financial support for medical research came from the private sector. By 1940, the private sector contributed only 27 percent of the total, a figure that dwindled to around 4 percent in 1980 and has remained in that vicinity ever since, he said. 'The rapid descent (in private support of science) that began in the forties corresponds with the flowering of the NIH,' he said. 'The sense was that the government was doing such an effective job that foundations directed their resources elsewhere.'" Sic. This so-called "flowering of the NIH" actually amounted to the Lasker Syndicate's stranglehold on our tax dollars for their objectives! "The lecture ended with a brief question session, during which it emerged that more than 70 percent of HHMI investigators also hold NIH grants." Golly, what a coincidence. (Trillions in philanthropy forecast - Choppin asserts role for private support of biomedicine. By Rich McManus. NIH Record Dec. 14, 1999.) Choppin / NIH Record 1999 From "Microbiologist Death Toll Mounts As Connections to Dyncorp, Hadron, Promis Software & Disease Research Emerge. A Career in Microbiology Can Be Harmful to Your Health (Revised/Updated)." By Michael Davidson, FTW Staff Writer, and Michael C. Ruppert: "The Howard Hughes Medical Institute -- Another Link?" "There is another intriguing connection between three of the five American scientists that have died. Wiley, Schwartz, and Benito Que worked for medical research facilities that received grants from Howard Hughes Medical Institute (HHMI). HHMI funds a tremendous number of research programs at schools, hospitals and research facilities, and has long been alleged to be conducting 'black ops' biomedical research for intelligence organizations, including the CIA." "Long-time biowarfare invstigator Patricia Dole, Ph.D. reports that there is a history of people connected to HHMI being murdered. In 1994, Jose Trias met with a friend in Houston, Texas and was planning to go public with his personal knowledge of HHMI 'front door' grants being diverted to 'back door' black ops bioresearch. The next day, Trias and his wife were found dead in their Chevy Chase, Md. home. Chevy Chase is where HHMI is headquartered. Police describe the killings as a professional hit. Tsunao Saitoh, who formerly worked at an HHMI-funded lab at Columbia University, was shot to death on May 7, 1996 while sitting in his car outside his home in La Jolla, Calif. Police also describe this as a professional hit." http://www.smokershi...com/Choppin.htm The evidence also suggests that there's no conspiracy and cover up that Lewis and Colby won't pretend to debunk.

If you didn't miss it, then why did you claim that the toxins were only released at ground level? .. It looks like you weren't being very honest with that claim, especially since you had already seen the evidence that the chemical releases were done from an aircraft. I've alrady posted the claims of eyewitness to the low altitude chemtrail spraying, plus the video evidence showing that the chemtrail jets are well below the 30,000 feet altitude you keep incorrectly claiming they are flying at. Once again your claim is not only absurd, but it's not true .. Nobody has claimed that normal cirrus clouds don't exist.. What they claim is that chemtrails are NOT persistent contrails, and that the chemical trails are NOT normal cirrus clouds.. You need to stop twisting other people's words around to suit your particular agenda. Where is the proof that there is a way to collect samples from a trail? .. Where is the proof that chemtrail researchers know how to collect samples from a trail, but have chosen not to collect them in this manner? Regardless of your incorrect beliefs about this subject (and you have plenty of them), samples collected on the ground prove what just fell to the ground from the chemtrails above.. Eyewitnesses have seen the chemtrail planes.. They have seen the fallout haze in the air from what these planes are spraying.. They have even witnessed sticky spider web like stuff on many occasions, which collects on the ground from the chemical haze.. So you need to stop pretending that ground samples "prove nothing", when they actually prove what toxins are in the chemtrails.

Maybe you missed the fact that the toxins were released from a jet, not at ground level. "Dew II involved the release of fluorescent particles and Lycopodium spores from an aircraft." No, you want everyone to believe that chemtrails are only persistent contrails that are seen at 30,000 feet.. but that is NOT TRUE .. Not only are chemtrails nothing like contrails, they have been observed being sprayed at much lower altitudes.. Some as low as a few thousand feet .. People on the ground have also reported that the chemicals being sprayed are reaching the ground in a matter of a few minites, at some locations. Nobody is denying the fact the contrails exist, or that cirrus clouds exist .. What an absurd accusation to make..It's almost as absurd as denying the existance of chemtrails .. but I guess you have your reasons for that denial. Actually air samples have been taken while the chemtrail toxins have been seen falling to the ground in the form of a haze.. I'm sure it would be quite difficult, if not impossible, to retrieve any samples directly from a trail.. I asked you before if you knew a way to that, then by all means contact the people and scientists who are researching the chemtrail toxins, to let them know how this can be accomplished. I will produce the test results for the toxic chemtrail air samples in my next post.

The FACT that the verdict was overturned and that Williams is now presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty in another court of law, has obviously been bought by more people than just "Duane and his mom." Maybe you missed my previous post that was held up due to moderation.. Here it is again. The evidence suggests that it was no random robbery that took out Jose Trias and his wife .. It appears that the two bit petty thief Scotland E. Williams played the role of Lee Harvey Oswald in this little charade. "Long-time biowarfare invstigator Patricia Dole, Ph.D. reports that there is a history of people connected to HHMI being murdered. In 1994, Jose Trias met with a friend in Houston, Texas and was planning to go public with his personal knowledge of HHMI 'front door' grants being diverted to 'back door' black ops bioresearch. The next day, Trias and his wife were found dead in their Chevy Chase, Md. home. Chevy Chase is where HHMI is headquartered. Police describe the killings as a professional hit. Tsunao Saitoh, who formerly worked at an HHMI-funded lab at Columbia University, was shot to death on May 7, 1996 while sitting in his car outside his home in La Jolla, Calif. Police also describe this as a professional hit." http://www.smokershi...com/Choppin.htm

Here are examples of chemtrail operations that were conducted by the US military during the 1950's. Operation Dew Operation Dew refers to two separate field trials conducted by the United States in the 1950s. The tests were designed to study the behavior of aerosol-released biological agents. General description Operation Dew took place from 1951-1952 off the southeast coast of the United States, including near Georgia, and North and South Carolina.[1][2] Operation Dew consisted of two sets of trials, Dew I and Dew II.[2] The tests involved the release of 250 pounds (110 kg) of fluorescent particles from a minesweeper off the coast.[1] Operation Dew I was described in a U.S. Army report known as "Dugway Special Report 162", dated August 1, 1952.[2] The purpose of Operation Dew was to study the behavior of aerosol-released biological agents.[1] Dew I Operation Dew I consisted of five separate trials from March 26, 1952 until April 21, 1952 that were designed to test the feasibility of maintaining a large aerosol cloud released offshore until it drifted over land, achieving a large area coverage.[2] The tests released zinc cadmium sulfide along a 100-to-150-nautical-mile (190 to 280 km) line approximately 5 to 10 nautical miles (10 to 20 km) off the coast of Georgia, North Carolina and South Carolina.[2] Two of the trials dispersed clouds of zinc cadmium sulfide over large areas of all three U.S. states. The tests affected over 60,000 square miles (150,000 km²) of populated coastal region in the U.S. southeast.[3] The Dew I releases were from a Navy minesweeper, the USS Tercel.[2] Dew II Dew II involved the release of fluorescent particles and Lycopodium spores from an aircraft.[2] Dew II was described in a 1953 Army report which remained classified at the time of a 1997 report by the U.S. National Research Council concerning the U.S. Army's zinc cadmium sulfide dispersion program of the 1950s.[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dew Here's a history of the US Biological Weapons program, which still exists and continues today, though it was allegedly made illegal in 1972 during the Biological Weapons Convention. Testing on unwitting civilians Medical experiments were conducted on a large scale on civilians who had not consented to participate. Often, these experiments took place in urban areas in order to test dispersion methods. Questions were raised about detrimental health effects after experiments in San Francisco, California, were followed by a spike in hospital visits; however, in 1977 the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention determined that there was no association between the testing and the occurrence of pneumonia or influenza.[55] The San Francisco test involved a U.S. Navy ship that sprayed Serratia marcescens from the bay; it traveled more than 30 miles.[55] One dispersion test involved laboratory personnel disguised as passengers spraying harmless bacteria in Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport.[55] Scientists tested biological pathogens, including Bacillus globigii, which were thought to be harmless, at public places such as subways. A light bulb containing Bacillus globigii was dropped on New York City's subway system; the result was strong enough to affect people prone to illness (also known as Subway Experiment).[56] Based on the circulation measurements, thousands of people would have been killed if a dangerous microbe was released in the same manner.[55] A jet aircraft released material over Victoria, Texas, that was monitored in the Florida Keys.[55] GAO Report In February, 2008, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) released report GAO-08-366 titled, "Chemical and Biological Defense, DOD and VA Need to Improve Efforts to Identify and Notify Individuals Potentially Exposed during Chemical and Biological Tests." The report stated that tens of thousands of military personnel and civilians may have been exposed to biological and chemical substances through DOD tests. In 2003, the DOD reported it had identified 5,842 military personnel and estimated 350 civilians as being potentially exposed during the testing, known as Project 112.[57] The GAO scolded the U.S. Department of Defense's (DOD) 2003 decision to stop searching for people affected by the tests was premature.[54] The GAO report also found that the DoD made no effort to inform civilians of exposure, and that the United States Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) is failing to use available resources to inform veterans of possible exposure or to determine if they were deceased. After the DoD halted efforts to find those who may have been affected by the tests, veteran health activisits and others identified approximately 600 additional individuals who were potentially exposed during Project 112.[57] Some of the individuals were identified after the GAO reviewed records stored at the Dugway Proving Ground, others were identified by the Institute of Medicine.[58] Many of the newly identified suffer from long term illnesses that may have been caused by the biological or chemical testing.[59] Read about other US military bio weapons experiments here.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_biological_weapons_program These tests prove that the US military is capable of any atrocity.. Today's chemtrail spraying operations are very real, despite concerted efforts by certain parties to cover up that fact.. They want people to believe that chemtrails are just another "conspiracy theory" invented by the "lunatic fringe". Wake up people.. We are being sprayed on a global scale!

People like Lewis and Colby, etc. can deny the existance of chemtrails all they like, but the evidence proves they are not only real, but of grave concern to many citizens around the world. Since this forum is based in the UK, the readers here might find these letters, from these concerned citizens, interesting. Topic: Letter published in Shropshire Star, Feb 19th 2010. On February 19th 2010, the Shropshire Star published Robert Wilson Stapeley's letter regarding Chemtrails under the title 'Mystery Of The Trails Crossing Our Skies'. This letter was sent to the opinion, comment and letter pages of local Shropshire newspapers and all national ones on Feb 5th 2010. Shortly, I will scan this letter as published in the newspaper to this group. The original letter is posted below, their is a difference but in all fairness, they have done a fair job. A comment was received from Andy Simpson, the Daily Mail Letters editor, on Feb 8th 2010, which read: "Perhaps that's why we British call the[m] vapour trails and don't get paranoid about them." Please read the below correspondence in full, it makes interesting reading and quite frankly made Mr. Simpson look rather foolish and ignorant. The response to Mr. Simpson was also sent, in edited format, to all of the original papers that the original letter was sent to, a few days later and before the Shropshire Star published the original. The originial letter: "An area of study which has recently become of interest to me is that of ‘chemtrails, the controversial dark side of aircraft ‘contrails’. This issue is a very controversial one indeed with theories ranging from the sinister to that of covert and classified environmental protection and preservation to completely innocent and natural aviation engine output into the atmosphere. However, it has become a serious concern to professionals and amateurs alike. Indeed, experienced commercial pilots, military personnel and other qualified observers say the phenomena they are observing are not normal contrails. A contrail is the natural output of aircrafts, depending on atmospheric conditions - short lived condensation or water vapour trails emitted by aircraft which dissipate and disappear within seconds to a few minutes. The issue that is arising today, which first reared its head in the 1990’s, and is now widespread over the internet, in books, documentaries and even movies, is that of persistent trails of water ‘vapour’ from aircraft that last for hours, by unmarked aircraft in our skies. This may or may not be natural with technological advances and engine design (but this is denied by official bodies) but what is certainly not natural are the X patterns being left which can sometimes be seen when these aircraft ‘contrails’ intersect. Indeed, more worrying are the chess board trails or large grids which interlace our skies in somewhat perfect formation, and over hours turn what were clear blue skies into think, hazy, and densely “cloudy” ones. This phenomena is not generally discussed in the media, although seldomly, but is being noticed more and more and is making quite an impact on the internet and lecture circuits. It is these totally unnatural and extremely long lasting formations in our skies that have become known as chemtrails (chemical trails), as opposed to contrails (condensation trails) Some believe they are perpetrated by shadowy elements within our government and military for reasons unknown. Let’s face it, its known and undisputed that our government have conducted clandestine airborne biological and chemical testing, without our consent, on the general populace and even their very own military personnel, since the 1930’s. Some believe it to be weather modification experimentation (which our military have conducted) to possibly slowdown global warming or the sinister belief of nationwide mass involuntary medication for population control or dumbing-down. (Well, they do put the toxin Fluoride in our water, Aspartame in our soft drinks, MSG in our food, etc). I do not know the answer and will not speculate but what is known is that this phenomena is happening in our skies and is certainly not natural or even legal, aviationally speaking, when looked at regarding the flight paths creating these X or chess board formations that are deliberately being formed above us. Who else has noticed this? How often do we look up and really engage what is going on above our heads? For those interested I would respectfully draw peoples attention to the free online documentary, ‘Don’t Talk About The Weather’ and the works, websites, lectures, books and articles of the British researchers Andrew Johnson BSc and Phillip Morris and of the acclaimed award winning Canadian journalist William Thomas, and US scientist and former federal employee Clifford E. Carnicom. The truth is ‘up’ there and truth certainly does not fear investigation. I would welcome comment on this subject and can be contacted at ‘ctnewsletteruk@hotmail.co.uk’ Robert Wilson Stapeley Telford, Shropshire After Mr. Simpsons response, the below letter was sent in reply to which there has, as yet, been no reply. As mentioned above, the below was also sent in edited format, to all of the original papers that the original letter was sent to, a few days later and before the Shropshire Star published the original. Dear Mr. Simpson, Firstly, let me thank you for your kind and quick response, although I am a bit perplexed by it. Secondly, let me apologize in advance for such a long reply but I think it necessary in the interests of fairness, and I truly hope you read this in full and take me up on my offer. If you do so, in truth, what you are going to hear is not outrageous at all. It just appears to be so because it is so different from the conditioned “norm.” Was it not orthodox opinion that once held the earth to be flat? Sadly, for many out there, the truth was held in a quote from ‘A Scandal in Bohemia’ in 1892, that reads, "You see, but you do not observe." What exactly do you mean by ”we British”, as in all inclusive, when increasing numbers of us here in the United Kingdom are noticing this augmented output of chess board style patterns by unmarked aircraft? Not only is that very strange in itself, but also the fact that they defy legal avianational flight paths, and in regard unnaturally last for hours as opposed to minutes. "Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance." - Albert Einstein. I could agree somewhat if these were just singular and random but what I and many others are witnessing, as expressed in my letter, are these deliberate formations, as the attached photos clearly show. Surely, you can view this as odd? Also, I don’t think that pointing out this information, and questions relating, renders one “paranoid.” This certainly isn’t an ‘American’ thing, and by no means only picked up on by tin-foil hat wearers. Indeed, as I point out in my letter - it has become a serious concern to professionals and amateurs alike - experienced commercial pilots, military personnel and other qualified observers say the phenomena they are observing are not normal contrails. A case in point, to name a few, are British software engineer and college lecturer Andrew D. Johnson BSc, acclaimed award winning Canadian journalist and pilot William Thomas, and US research scientist, computer consultant and former federal employee Clifford E. Carnicom. I am not saying that something sinister is happening, it could be for the benefit of the planet, but I do think that this phenomena should be addressed and as such I wanted to generate discussion – even giving an email address to contact me by the general public, for those that are interested regardless of their take on it. On a side note, as regard to me mentioning weather modification or geo-engineering experimentation, this has been confirmed by the military in this country – see for example cloud seeding and Project Cumulus, etc, as a small example, and the London Daily Express article of October 9th 2005, ‘Weather War?’ (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=1061). And as regard to the comment I make about nationwide invasive mass-medication and biological testing on an unsuspecting and un-consenting public (which may be construed as fanciful conspiracy theories by those who have not looked into it for themselves), I would draw your attention to the April 21, 2002 Observer article ‘Millions were in germ war tests’ (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience), the numerous BBC articles (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/426154.stm) on illegal Porton Down human experimentation and the absolutely shocking number of biological tests, also detailed in the above article, carried out on the British population as human guinea pigs in the 2004 ITV programme ‘Top Secrets Revealed’ and the Nov 2006 BBC Inside Out programme, ‘Clouds of Secrecy’. In these are far to many experiments to mention here, needless to say that they were carried out in our skies and on our streets and even on occupied civilian trains and on underground factory workers – these can be viewed freely online. I won’t even go into Aspartame, MSG, Bisphenol A and Ritalin, or the toxin Fluoride (with which the Nazi’s used to sedate concentration camp victims) which even organised groups of MP’s, dentists and medical professionals are speaking out against. It might simply be bio-warfare simulation testing on unknowing citizens, which has happened in the past. Could these tests on the unsuspecting public still be something that is being carried out today? Did it indeed stop in 1979? Knowing this, it isn’t quite so easy to brush someone off, or their questions, as being simply delusional paranoia. As for Porton Down, who truly knows the depths to which they have descended for bio-chemical-technological warfare research purposes? Sure, the deplorable and scandalous information that is, for example, coming to public attention in various BBC ‘News’ stories is evidence enough of sinister affairs. Are thry on going after the military say such things stopped in 1979? Could Chemtrails be an extention of such tests? When asked if such tests are still being carried out, spokesperson for Porton Down, Sue Ellison said: ‘It is not our policy to discuss ongoing research.’ Indeed, Bruce George MP, and Chairman of the Commons Defence Committee, told BBC News on August 20, 1999 that: "I would not say that the Defence Committee is micro-managing either DERA or Porton Down. We visit it, but, with eleven members of Parliament and five staff covering a labyrinthine department like the Ministry of Defence and the Armed Forces, it would be quite erroneous of me and misleading for me to say that we know everything that’s going on in Porton Down. It’s too big for us to know, and secondly, there are many things happening there that I’m not even certain Ministers are fully aware of, let alone Parliamentarians." It Is true that, ‘when it comes to intelligence matters, even our Prime Minister is only briefed on a need to know basis.’ I have noticed, as have many others, something very strange happening directly above our heads and because I don’t have all the answers, or for that matter may be ridiculed by the unthinking majority, I am not simply one to brush it off as the delusional ramblings of a paranoid and happily go back and join the sleeping majority content with waiting for the next episode of Coronation Street. Conversely, I am also not one to simply believe the first thing I am told, for as it was quoted of Sherlock Holmes in 1892 as suitably stating, "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." Facts, as Aldous Huxley correctly pointed out, do not cease to exist simply because they are ignored and I believe it was the pilgrim of peace, Mahatma Gandhi, who aptly stated, “Even if you are in a minority of one, the truth is still the truth.” I understand all too well that most will continue on heavy doses of ignorance to maintain their inability to grasp reality and even Sir Winston Churchill once said that "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened." Whether you print my letter or not, I truly hope that you will not simply dismiss it. Don’t take my word for it, look into it for yourself. I think it is important and worth discussion at the very least, and I think it would generate considerable comment, whether people agree or not – this, is it not, are what the opinion and letter pages are for? And, as a reader of your newspaper, I would hope you consider, as you do others, that my letter be taken seriously. I have always said, and truly believe, that one cannot form an open, educated, unbiased and rationale opinion on any subject unless they have both sides of a story and truth does not fear investigation, no matter who it may offend. And in respect of that, I would like to draw your attention to two documentaries, one being the independent ‘British’ documentary ‘Don’t Talk About The Weather’ and the other by Mr. Carnicom mentioned above called ‘Aerosol Crimes (aka Chemtrails)’. Both of which I am more than happy to send you for your own viewing. By all means, dismiss this, but not until such time as after processing their information. Furthermore, this issue has even been brought up in the European Parliament by Erik Meijer and even mentioned in legislative bill HR.2977, as introduced on the floor of the House of Representatives, by U.S. Congressman Dennis Kucinich. Even the Discovery Channel have taken interest in this, but their bias was exposed by Dr. Stephen C. L'Hommedieu (Discovery Channel "Best Evidence" Chemtrail Coverage: Revealing or Concealing?). There is even an online UK based petition (http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Chemtrail-Sprays/) collecting signatures to formally request government officials to investigate Chemtrails. In additional to the two documentaries I recommend, I would draw your attention to ‘version 1.1 June 2007’ of the ‘British’ report, attached, entitled ‘Illegal Aerosol Spraying Operations over United Kingdom Airspace: Request for Immediate, Serious and Candid Study by DoE, CAA and the RAF.’ Arthur Schopenhauer once exclaimed that “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.” And I concur. I do highly recommend that you, at the very least, read the attached report, and view the two abovementioned documentaries which I am more than happy to send you on DVD (‘Don’t Talk About The Weather’ and ‘Aerosol Crimes (aka Chemtrails)’). I fully respect your potential decision to not print my letter (although I would hope it to generate comment via the giving of my email address). And I would even respect your opinion if you dismiss the notion of Chemtrails, but I hope you would be open enough to at least do so once having ‘both sides of a story’ with the recommendations and offer I propose. An apt statement from 1859 by John Stuart Mill’s will sum this up nicely, "However unwillingly a person who has a strong opinion may admit the possibility that his opinion may be false, he ought to be moved by the consideration that however true it may be, if it is not fully, frequently and fearlessly discussed, it will be held as dead dogma, not a living truth" Remember, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence and as George Orwell pertinently exclaimed, "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." Indeed, Angela Monet is also fittingly quoted as saying, “Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music.” I sincerely thank you for your time. Kind regards, Robert Wilson Stapeley. Telford, Shropshire. http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=331879146773&topic=12660

The evidence suggests that it was no random robbery that took out Jose Trias and his wife .. It appears that the two bit petty thief Scotland E. Williams played the role of Lee Harvey Oswald in this little charade. The Howard Hughes Medical Institute With an endowment of more than $11 billion, the Howard Hughes Medical Institute is the largest philanthropy in the US and possibly the most influential sponsor of biomedical research in the world. Choppin was its president from 1987 until the end of 1999. Its first grants were made in 1988. He is one of those peculiar Lasker entities, a virologist who doesn't care about viral causes of chronic disease, who channeled its funds into genetics research instead. HHMI History / Howard Hughes Medical Institute "The $11.8 billion medical research organization currently supplies about 22 percent of all nonprofit research support in biomedicine, funding some 331 investigators at 71 institutions, said Choppin. It has spent more than $5 billion since 1985 on its five areas of specialty: cell biology and regulation, immunology, neuroscience and structural biology; a new field -- computational biology -- is just emerging... 'This is small compared to the NIH budget, but substantial in terms of private support,' he said... While NIH is far and away the world's largest supporter of biomedical research, with a just-won FY 2000 budget of almost $18 billion, the government has not always been the principal funder of basic science. Choppin noted that in 1930, half of the financial support for medical research came from the private sector. By 1940, the private sector contributed only 27 percent of the total, a figure that dwindled to around 4 percent in 1980 and has remained in that vicinity ever since, he said. 'The rapid descent (in private support of science) that began in the forties corresponds with the flowering of the NIH,' he said. 'The sense was that the government was doing such an effective job that foundations directed their resources elsewhere.'" Sic. This so-called "flowering of the NIH" actually amounted to the Lasker Syndicate's stranglehold on our tax dollars for their objectives! "The lecture ended with a brief question session, during which it emerged that more than 70 percent of HHMI investigators also hold NIH grants." Golly, what a coincidence. (Trillions in philanthropy forecast - Choppin asserts role for private support of biomedicine. By Rich McManus. NIH Record Dec. 14, 1999.) Choppin / NIH Record 1999 From "Microbiologist Death Toll Mounts As Connections to Dyncorp, Hadron, Promis Software & Disease Research Emerge. A Career in Microbiology Can Be Harmful to Your Health (Revised/Updated)." By Michael Davidson, FTW Staff Writer, and Michael C. Ruppert: "The Howard Hughes Medical Institute -- Another Link?" "There is another intriguing connection between three of the five American scientists that have died. Wiley, Schwartz, and Benito Que worked for medical research facilities that received grants from Howard Hughes Medical Institute (HHMI). HHMI funds a tremendous number of research programs at schools, hospitals and research facilities, and has long been alleged to be conducting 'black ops' biomedical research for intelligence organizations, including the CIA. "Long-time biowarfare invstigator Patricia Dole, Ph.D. reports that there is a history of people connected to HHMI being murdered. In 1994, Jose Trias met with a friend in Houston, Texas and was planning to go public with his personal knowledge of HHMI 'front door' grants being diverted to 'back door' black ops bioresearch. The next day, Trias and his wife were found dead in their Chevy Chase, Md. home. Chevy Chase is where HHMI is headquartered. Police describe the killings as a professional hit. Tsunao Saitoh, who formerly worked at an HHMI-funded lab at Columbia University, was shot to death on May 7, 1996 while sitting in his car outside his home in La Jolla, Calif. Police also describe this as a professional hit." http://www.smokershistory.com/Choppin.htm The evidence also suggests that there's no conspiracy and cover up that Lewis and Colby won't pretend to debunk.

Anytime Colby comes up with "evidence" attempting to prove me wrong, it's best to do some checking to see if it's really true or not. Jose Trias was on a list of murdered micro biologists .. It was never mentioned on that list that he was not a scientist, but rather a lawyer who obviously knew too much about top secret programs and allegeldy decided to share that information with a "friend" the day before he and his wife were brutally murdered. Then Colby decided to make the Trias murders appear to be just a run of the mill armed robbery, with a suspect already proven guilty .. NOT TRUE, as proven by the information he decided not to post here. Double-murder conviction of Arnold man is overturned New trial ordered in deaths of lawyers July 31, 1996|By Scott Wilson | Scott Wilson,SUN STAFF The Maryland Court of Appeals overturned yesterday the double-murder conviction of Scotland E. Williams, ordering a new trial for the condemned Arnold man in the May 1994 slayings of two prominent Washington lawyers. The state's highest court ruled unanimously that Williams was unfairly convicted last year on charges that he murdered Jose Trias and his wife, Julie Gilbert. The two were found dead in their Annapolis weekend home, hand-cuffed and shot in the head. "Mr. Williams is once again presumed to be innocent," said Michael Braudes, a public defender who argued the Williams case before the Court of Appeals. http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1996-07-31/news/1996213008_1_williams-case-anne-arundel-court-of-appeals "NEWS Son said he had slaying victims' bank cards, mother testifies Williams being retried in 1994 double slaying By Andrea F. Siegel | Andrea F. Siegel,SUN STAFF | May 14, 1998 Scotland E. Williams, accused in a double killing, told his mother he had bank cards belonging to the victims a day or so after their bodies were discovered, the woman testified yesterday. Rosezelma J. Williams told an Anne Arundel Circuit Court jury that her son, who was staying at her Arnold home, also said he had gotten a car from "a parking lot or something" and taken it to Baltimore.Prosecutors are trying to show that the automated teller machine cards belonged to Jose E. Trias, 49, and Julie Noel Gilbert, 48, lawyers who were found dead May 16, 1994, in their weekend home in Winchester on the Severn. Much more here... http://articles.baltimoresun.com/keyword/trias/recent/3

Friend or reporter? .. Or does it really matter, since he spilled some top secret info to somebody. "1994, Jose Trias met with a friend in Houston, Texas and was planning to go public with his personal knowledge of HHMI "front door" grants being diverted to "back door" black ops bioresearch. The next day, Trias and his wife were found dead in their Chevy Chase, Md. home. Chevy Chase is where HHMI is headquartered. Police described the killings as a professional hit. Howard Hughes Medical Institute (HHMI) funds a tremendous number of research programs at schools, hospitals and research facilities, and has long been alleged to be conducting "black ops" biomedical research for intelligence organizations, including the CIA." http://www.heartson.com/Politics/anthrax_research_timeline.html Lawyer or micro biologist?.. Murdered by a robber or by professional hit? .. I guess it just depends on which sources you choose to believe... Your source comes from the main stream media and we all know how "reliable" and "honest" they are.

The people who have become ill believe it was caused by chemtrails for the simple reason that chemtrails were seen criss crossing the sky above their homes, several days before they became ill .. In several cases, strange sticky stuff has fallen from the sky that resembles spider webs, but when touched, disolved into people's skin, creating sores.. Some of those people now have what is known as morgellons disease. Here's a list of some of the other illness claimed to be caused by exposure to chemtrails. Allergies, sore and blocked sinuses; Dry, hacking, persistent cough; Nosebleeds, blood in mucous; Swollen, burning, teary eyes with mucous; Flu-like, fever, sore throat; Pneumonia, upper respiratory; Mycoplasma infections; Migraine or splitting headaches; Pain in back of neck, particularly at the top of the spine, extremely stiff neck; Disorientation, foggy brain, sudden dizziness; Extreme fatigue, lethargy, inability to concentrate; Loud ringing in your ears; Depression, anxiety attacks; Gastrointestinal distress, bloating; Diarrhoea, bloody stools; joint pain, Aching joints and muscles; Thirst (your pets, too) or loss of appetite; Loss of bladder control, tics or spasms; Recurring fungal infections; Metallic, oily or corrosive smell and taste. Everything video taped looks nothing like normal contrails, which form very thin lines that dissipate behind the aircraft .. Cemtrails are much wider in appearance and linger for many hours. The chemtrail toxins have been recovered from the ground because there is no way to collect them from the air. The picture that Jack posted here shows the trails of planes that have turned around. True, but the eye witness haven't seen any planes in "holding patterns", nor have they witnessed any "normal traffic" .. They usually see and describe one or two planes that are deliberately turning around to criss cross the sky with wide, lingering CHEMTRAILS patterns. Nice try again, but if the US military was guilty of this type of bio warfare testing and chemical spraying of unsuspecting populations in the past, then they are capable of doing the same thing now. I've already posted the proof that the majority of the chemtrail spraying is being done by Air Force tankers .. People who can identify these types of jets, have done so, repeatedly. This is what you said .. "The reason it "became widespread" is due to an increase in jet traffic, a redesign of jet engines to cut noise and save fuel, and higher jet traffic due to increased traffic and more efficient engines. I replied .. "You think the way to "save fuel" is to CIRCLE BACK REPEATEDLY TO MAKE LOOPS, X'S, LETTERS, AND GRID PATTERNS OVER CERTAIN AREAS???" .. The words "save fuel" was one of your many excuses.. So I didn't put any words in your mouth. Chemtrails look NOTHING like contrails, so why keep pretending they do? .. People who are ill aren't worrying about proving how they got sick in a court of law .. They just want the US military to admit to what they are spraying in the atmosphere that is making them so ill, and then STOP IT. Everything you post has to do with your world view, whether you can admit it or not. Some researchers may believe incorrect information at times, but they are NOT the ones who are spreading deliberate disinformation .. The people doing that are the ones trying to suppress the truth of chemtrails. Once again, chemtrails look nothing like contrails .. Just because the tanker jets don't spray chemtrails using the same method crop duster planes do, doesn't mean they aren't spraying anything, because they obviously are. If you know of a way to retrieve a chemical sample from a trail in the air, then by all means let the people who are researching this crime know how to do that .. If you don't know how to do that, then the ground samples will have to do.

I couldn't agree more. When people are brutally murdered, it's more than just suspicious.. Even though it can't be proven in a court of law that the conversation took place, I don't see why the person involved would risk his own life by claiming it did, if it didn't.. Just the fact that Trias and his wife were murdered is enough proof that they were involved in something that certain parties decided needed to remain a secret. You're entitled to your closed mnded opinion about Jack's work, but I haven't seen anything in his research that deserves the type of character assassinations that you and your pals dish out.. Everyone makes mistakes, but it looks like the fact that building 6 burned before the tower came down, is not one of them. Asking someone you're debating .. "is there a conspiracy you don't believe in?".. is equivalent to calling them a "hoaxhead", or "a wild eyed conspiracy theorist", or "a tin foil hat wearer" .. It's just another form of ridicule that's always used by people with your particular mind set, or world view. It doesn't matter how many micro biologists there are in the world .. What matters is that many of these scientists didn't die from old age or natural causes .. They were BRUTALLY MURDERED and it's a fact that people are usually BRUTALLY MURDERED for a reason. Sorry, but that is not a logical assumption to make .. Yes, certain people are working very hard to suppress the truth abut chemtrails, but I never accused anyone on this forum of corrupting those links .. It obviously happened before I posted them here .. Now please stop wasting my time by making false accusations against me..Talk about beating a dead horse! If there are never any chemtrails being sprayed at your location, then you're very lucky.. Since you live near military airspace, that might be the reason you don't see them... Maybe the Air Force doesn't spray their own with chemical toxins. Here's a video showing low altitude spraying at about 4,000 feet. "Includes original footage now featured on "What In The World Are They Spraying". Chemtrails Are: Persistent lines of chemical-infused aerosol spray dispersals from typically unmarked planes which are now seen in the sky all over the world. Unlike normal jet contrails formed from water vapor, chemtrails spread to form a thick blanket of cloud cover, held together by polymer fibers until they reach the ground, contaminating crops, water supplies and humans with radioactive soft metals and dessicated red blood cells which contain active human pathogens. Researchers discovered 6 different agendas or motives for these operations, some of which may overlap: environment or climate changes, biological, military purposes, electromagnetic, geophysical or global effects, and exotic propulsion systems. Analysis of material from chemtrails has revealed magnetic salts, including the toxic substance of barium. Fibers, submicron in size, have also been detected, and they bear a physical similarity to the filaments found in Morgellons Disease." I'm not sure how you expect anyone to obtain a sample from a trail in the air, unless they follow one of the Air Force tanker jets and figure out how to collect some of the toxins while hanging out of their plane.. I've never heard of anything so ridiculous! .. But thanks for the laugh.

"I didn't ever say anything about the source being anonymous. It is still a coincidence that the murder was the next day. There is no proven connection. Does it look suspicious? Sure. Is it related to "chemtrails"? No." You think the scientist and his wife being brutally murdered one day after revealing the fact that he was involved in working on top secret black programs, was just a coincidence??? .. Again, it must be your particular would view that's clouding your judgement. "Jack still believes in an explosion in Building 6. Twice on this forum video evidence has been posted showing that his still which he thinks shows an explosion is in fact a dust cloud from a collapse. http://educationforu...pic=5594&st=855 There is no proof, nor evidence of such an explosion. That IS a fantasy." I don't know enough about that subject to make a comment, but if Jack is incorrect about one aspect of the 911 attacks, that still doesn't make all of his research "fantasies", as you would like everyone to believe. "It is also NOT related to "chemtrails". I never said it was .. You're the one who played the "world view" card, not me. "Is there any conspiracy you don't believe in?" Is there any typical insult you don't use while pretending to debunk every word I post here? "Again, you are ignoring CONTEXT." The CONTEXT is they were brutally murdered to assure their silence... What more CONTEXT do you need? "No obsession here. Just trying to get YOU to own up to YOUR mistakes. I have no problem with you believing that there are people working to suppress whatever truth you believe in. The problem is YOU are accusing those on this forum of covering something up simply because YOU didn't copy links correctly." I already said it was my fault for not checking ALL of those links.. Did you perhaps miss that? .. There most definately are people working hard to suppress the truth of chemtrails, along with many other conspiracies.. but my believing in certain conspiracies has nothing to do with that. Nice try at slinging even more insults, but I NEVER accused anyone on this forum of having anything to do with the broken links that I posted here.. Your obsession with a few broken links has now become absurd. "I have seen no proof of low altitude spraying. I've seen plenty of pics and videos posted by many people on many forums claiming low altitude spraying but in none of them do they actually prove it. They all appear to be among cirrus clouds which are a high altitude phenomenon." If you haven't seen any proof of low altitude spraying then you haven't looked up at the sky recently, because it's taking place everywhere... The videos taken by people have also proven the low altitude spraying is taking place.. You should watch some of the videos that prove this is happening, instead of refusing to admit the truth. "Just waiting a few days does NOT rule out local contamination. Thinking such is absurd. Not all have "conducted their experiments a few days after seeing chemtrail planes spraying overhead". Many take their samples while the trails are in the air. Many, including yourself claim ill effects while trails are still in the air. If you accept that particulates would take at least a few days to reach the ground then you should also realize that they wold not fall directly below where the trail was. They would be hundreds of miles away and dissipated to such minute concentration to be virtually undetectable." Nice try, but the toxic samples collected on the ground are directly related to the toxins that have been sprayed from the chemtrail planes above, regardless of how long the contamination took to reach the ground.. This is also a fact, whether you choose to believe it or not. " "Chemtrails" are an internet myth perpetuated by ignorance and outright lies." That has to be the most absurd accusation you've made so far .. Chemtrails are a frightening reality .. They are not only being observed and video taped by people all over the world, but finally some scientists are taking them seriously enough to conduct tests of the toxons involved, and also the ill effects these toxins are havng on people all over the world.. Just because the internet is used to expose this top secret program doesn't make it an "internet myth", or a "lie" .. The people who have become ill from the chemtrails have no reason to lie, nor do the people conducting studies on the toxic samples, nor do the people who are working so hard to get this evidence and information out to the general public.. The only people who have reason to lie are the ones trying to suppress the truth of the chemtrail operations.. So why do you choose to believe their lies, instead of the truth that chemtrails are real? "Not according to news reports from WWII and the decades following. See post 105 and/or www.contrailscience.com for details." It doesn't matter if SOME contrails persist, because chemtrails are NOT the same thing as contrails.. Contrails usually take place at much higher altitudes, like around 30,000 feet .. Chemtrails are being seen and recorded at much lower altitudes.. People have also observed the chemtrails planes that turn around to spray the same area.. There would be no reason for a normal flight, displaying contrails, to turn around to create loops, x's, patterns that resemble letters, or grids that look like a tic tac toe game .. These are CHEMTRAIL jets making these patterns in the sky .. They are NOT normal contrails. "Only one I saw on there was sprayed by jets. Release does not equal spraying. Again, I guarantee if sprayed they did it from less than 1,000 feet. You can't aim at all otherwise. Some others did not mention the method of delivery." It doesn't matter that only one was sprayed by jets .. What matters is the PROOF that the US military was spraying ( among other methods) the American population with bio weapon toxins during the 1940's, 50's and 60's, are are still spraying them today in the form of CHEMTRAILS.. Most of which are delivered by US Air Force tanker jets. "I have posted proof that contrails have persisted, spread, and formed a cloud layer in many decades before the 90's. The reason it "became widespread" is due to an increase in jet traffic, a redesign of jet engines to cut noise and save fuel, and higher jet traffic due to increased traffic and more efficient engines. People don't KNOW that spraying is taking place. They THINK it is because somebody on the internet said so, said that it never used to happen, and says that contrails can't persist. At least two of those are lies. I've posted proof of that and you've agreed." You think the way to "save fuel" is to CIRCLE BACK REPEATEDLY TO MAKE LOOPS, X'S, LETTERS, AND GRID PATTERNS OVER CERTAIN AREAS??? .. People don't think chemtrails are taking place.. They KNOW they are taking place .. They also KNOW that many people have become very ill because of them.. The only connetion chemtrails have with the internet, is that the internet is the best way to get the word out that, for whatever reason, the US Air Force is spraying the population with chemtrail toxins. "Everything I've seen can be explained by contrails. The single best evidence "chemtrail" proponents could get would be a sample directly from a trail. If that ever happens I would be one of the biggest supporters. Seriously. So far though all that has happened is people proming it, collecting money and then never delivering. That is fraud. Many of the same people have produced deliberately faked pictures and videos. Why would I want to be associated with frauds and liars?" Contrails don't do what chemtrails do .. So I guess your would view won't even allow you to see them, or if you do see them, you want to believe they are just normal contrails .. Sorry, but the evidence is overwhelming that not only do chemtrails exist, but that the toxins they spray are making people ill all over the world. Of course there are some faked videos and fraud involved with the subject of chemtrails .. It's called DISINFORMATION.. All conspiracies and cover ups, whether they be JFK, Apollo, 911 etc., are riddled with all kinds of disinformation.. Unfortunately that's just the way it is. *edited for typos

"INEVER said he wasn't murdered. But whether he had a conversation with a journalist the day before or not is still just a cloincidence without actual PROOF." Only the murdered scientist's journalist friend could provide the actual proof of that conversation.. But considering the fact that his friends were MURDERED the day after their meeting, it's understandable why he chooses to remain anonymous.. Or does your world view not even allow you to undertand that? "JFK is irrelevant but I guarantee that you don't know my opinion on it so don't act like you do. 911 is also irrelevant. I don't believe exacly what the government said but I don't subscribe to Jack's fantasies either." None of those subjects are irrelevant.. You made them all very relevant when you played the old "world view" card.. Your world view obviously being very different from mine, or from Jack's.. Speaking of which, he's not the only person in the world who believes the official government version of 911 is a lie .. The evidence that is was some type of false flag operation is also overwhelming.. So you calling them "fantasies" is not only an insult, but also pretty immature. "Without the CONTEXT of how many total microbiologist, virologists, etc. there are in the world and what the normal death and murder rate is, kinowing that 100 of them were killed is as good as meaningless. Not all of them were murdered." No, not all of them were murdered, but enough of those scientists were brutally murdered, in ways which leaves no doubt they were all killed to assure their silence.. It's not only the number of them murdered that's alarming, but also the way in which they were all murdered. If you refuse to see that, then it must be your world view that's clouding your judgement on this issue as well. "Is that you actually taking responsibility then? Because the PROBLEM was that you were accusing others of "working to suppress the truth of chemtrails" based on YOUR inability to correctly copy links from a different forum. Are you withdrawing that accusation?" Your obsession with a few broken links is ridiculous.. When I copied the text, along with that chemtrail video, I didn't check every single link, so that was my fault.. The few I did check were working fine when I made that post.. Do I withdraw my claim that people are working hard to suppress the truth of chemtrails? .. Absolutely not .. That's quite obvious. "EVERY video or photo I've seen of them shows them among cirrus clouds (not surprising as contrails are in effect cirrus clouds themselves) which places them much higher. It is nearly impossible to tell altitude of a plane from the ground with the naked eye and the inability of "chemtrail" proponents to do so is longstanding. Perhaps you could post some of this "proof"?" I've already posted the proof that chemtrails are being sprayed at much lower altitudes than the 30,000 feet you keep claiming only "persistent contrails" are seen.. The proof of their lower altitude spraying is in every video that both Jack and I have posted here. "Bolded part is all that's necessary. Thanks." Unless the people working to uncover the truth of chemtrals are INSIDERS, then they can only go by what they are told by certain whistle-blower insiders, as to what the names of these top secret chemtrail operations are.. Or does your world view not allow you to undertant that fact either? "I haven't sidestepped anything. EVERY sample taken has been collected on the ground. There has not been any steps taken to rule out local contamination. Most samples are taken while the trails are still in the air! You have even admitted that if the trail was as low as "6,000 to 10,000" feet it would takes days to fall to the ground." According to what I've read, it takes two to three days for the chemtrails toxins to fall to the ground.. Local ground contamination has already been ruled out, since all of the eye witnesses and researchers involved have conducted their experiments a few days after seeing chemtrail planes spraying overhead. "IF spraying is actually happening anyway." There's no "IF" about it .. Chemtrails are a proven fact .. It's just the reasons why they are being sprayed by the military, that remains a mystery. "MOST (including Jack White) say that contrails do not persist." And some claim they do, including me .. But like I said before, there's a vast difference between lingering contrails and chemtrails.. Even persistent contrails eventually dissipate, unlike chemtrails that cover large portions of the sky, long after the planes are gone. "So you say, but the existence of spraying from the ground (one of your tests was from a ship (you omitted that part), one mentioned a bomblet, and another mentioned jets." I only copied the parts that were relevent to the discussion, which are toxins being sprayed from planes, not toxins being spread from ships, etc. "MOST "chemtrail" proponent say they were never seen before the late 90's. You take away that distinguishing characteristic and the lie that contrails never persist and you have no way to claim anything looks different now than it used to. You have no reason to think any spraying is happening." I doubt that most people studying chemtrail spraying today are even aware of the fact that US military black programs were spraying chemicals on the population during the 1940's, 50's and 60's .. Plus, the spraying during that time period was not as obvious or as widepread as it became in the 1990's, through today. People all over the planet are very aware that the skies look very different than they used to .. This is not a question of thinking the spraying s taking place.. We KNOW it's taking place.. We just don't know the exact reasons why.

"What PROOF did this website you got this from have that this conversation actually happened?" What proof do you have that it didn't? .. It was proven that Trias and his wife were murdered .. The fact that the journalist's name was witheld only shows that he didn't want to be next on list. "Did you just believe because they said so and it happens to fit your world view?" I can't believe you're playing the "world view" card, considering what your obvious world view is. You believe that JFK was murdered by lone nutter Lee Harvey Oswald, in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary .. You believe that the official Apollo record has absolutely no anomalies or inconsistancies in it, in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.. You believe that 911 happended exactly as the US goverment said it did, in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.. So of course it comes as no surprise that you deny the existance and reality of chemtrails. "You also still ignored this part "Any proof that the numbered murdered is more than should be expected for that period of time? Just how many are in the world?" Some of them in that list worked on AIDS research too. Why should we believe you that all the deaths are related to "chemtrails"? " I have no idea how many micro biologists are in the world, but the murder of over 100 of them is proof enough that they were deliberately silenced, regardless of which black programs they were involved with. "Seriously? You can't just own up to the FACT that YOU screwed up the links?" Seriously? .. What is your obsession with a few broken links? .. It happens .. Get over it. "There is no PROOF that ANYTHING collected on the ground came from a trail 30,000+ feet in the air hence no proof that anything is being sprayed. Especially when the trail is still in the air (how can you still not realize that it can't be in two places at once?). Especially when one of your OWN LINKS said that aerosols could take WEEKS to fall to the ground." Actually it's been proven that most of the chemtrail spraying is taking place at much lower altitudes than 30,000 feet.. They've been spotted as low as 6,000 to 10,000 feet, which takes the chemical fallout only two to three days to fall to the ground. "Any proof that Operation Clover Leaf or Raindance are even real?" Many researchers think those programs are real .. The code names Operation Clover Leaf, Raindance, Popeye and Red Sky keep coming up on sites where the chemtrail conspircy is being researched and discussed. "The U.S. government has a long history of denying inexcusable covert operations. These are the people who told you about the joys of nuclear radiation, that Agent Orange could defoliate a tropical jungle overnight but was harmless to humans. This is the same government that secretly experimented on its citizens with everything from syphilis to LSD, concludes Horowitz. The Pentagon would now have the public believe that the mass sightings of chemtrails over Las Vegas and much of North America are collective hallucinations, even though the boys at the government's Lawrence Livermore experimental lab admit that they've discussed massive aerial spraying and run computer simulations on the effects of weather modification for military and peacetime purposes. Commenting under condition of anonymity a Tribune confidential source speculates: "Whatever this material is, it cannot be good for us. Moreover, it represents another example of Americans taking their liberty and well being for granted. It may be that weather agencies, NASA and National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration know enough to keep their mouths shut." "The overall scope and agenda behind chemtrails - Operation Clover Leaf, Operation Red Sky, Operation Rain Dance - the code names for these ops - intertwines several overall objectives deemed imperative by the real power in DC, which is the National Security Administration. It should be noted that most of the intel groups that are involved in domestic control are, in varying degrees, in-the-loop on this business and are actively working with the Office of Naval Intelligence and the NSA in seeing this program succeed," concludes the source." http://www.millennium-ark.net/NEWS/05_Weird/051128.chemtrails2.html "So you sidestep the question which was "Why aren't you upset that they have promised samples that would actually prove something but they never do it?" with yet another promise that evidence is forthcoming." Why do you keep sidesteping the data which has already been presented, by claiming it doesn't exist, when it cleary does?.. I've already provided the evidence of exactly what toxins have been found on the ground, beneath where chemtrails have been seen criss crossing the sky above. These are the toxins that have been recovered after chemtrail spraying has been observed. 1. Aluminum barium 2. Aluminum Oxide 3. Bacilli and Molds 4. Pseudomonas Aeruginosa 5. Pseudomonas Florescens 6. Bacilli Amyloliquefaciens 7. Streptomyces 8. Enterobacteriaceae 9. Serratia Marcscens 10. Human white Blood Cells-A restrictor enzyme used in research labs to snip and combine DNA 11. Enterobacter Cloacal 12. Other Bacilli and other toxic molds capable of producing heart disease and meningitis as well as acute upper respiratory and gastrointestinal distress. 13. Carcinogen Zinc Cadmium Sulfide. "I don't have to debunk anything. Carnicom debunks himself. He's had multiple fake stories, photos and videos on his site. His standard of research is abyssmal. And he also can't agree on what the "chemtrails" are supposed to be for. I notice you didn't comment on that. So which is it Duane? Are they to control the weather, block the sun, enhance radar, make people sick, aid in satellite tracking, or assist in satellite mind control or whatever the current flavor of the week is?" There's a vast difference between debunking one's own evidence and research and not know exactly WHY these poisons are being spread via chemtrails.. Therefore there's a number of different theories as to why this is taking place.. Obviously the only people who have the correct answer to WHY, are the people who order the spraying. "And they ARE LYING. The majority of them claim that contrails can't persist. YOU have said yourself that they can." Like I said before, they are not the one's who are lying .. In fact, some of these investigators have commented that some contrails do persist, but have discovered that there is a vast difference between persistant contrails and toxic chemtrails. "Looks pretty similar. Except mine was taken in 1967, a full 30 years before "chemtrail" people say "chemtrails" were EVER seen before." I didn't see any proof that the picture was taken in 1967, but even if it was it doesn't matter, since chemtrails ( along with similar top secret government programs) have been around as far back as the 1940's. "The U.S. military has been spraying chemical and biological weapons in open air testing over civilian populations since the 1940s. They are called "vulnerability tests." This is not a controversial statement. The military has admitted to this practice on many occasions and there’s plenty of documentation from the government to corroborate it. There is also documentation of intentional, experimental releases of radiation on civilian populations." "Joint Quarterly report No. 3 is a military report on the spraying of Minneapolis with zinc cadmium sulfide florescent particles over a three month period in 1953. The people were never forewarned. Zinc cadmium sulfide is a silvery-white electropositive metal. It is used to test dispersal patterns. This means it acts like an X-ray in the sky showing the routes that sprayed particulates take when dispersing. The military, in a "hazardous chemicals" report describes, "Cadmium oxide fume is a severe pulmonary irritant; cadmium dust also is a pulmonary irritant, but it is less potent than cadmium fume because it has a larger particle size. The dust, at high concentrations, could be expected to cause the same physiological effects as those arising from fume exposure. Exposure to airborne cadmium is associated with nephrotoxicity. Several inorganic cadmium compounds cause malignant tumors in animals." Repeated exposure to lower levels of cadmium in air has resulted in chronic poisoning characterized by irreversible lung injury of the emphysematous type with abnormal lung function." "We know by their own reports that the military has dropped nerve agent VX out of jets over Utah, actually over half a million pounds over an eighteen-year period (1951 –1968). Once again, the people were not informed. In 1965, Operation Big Tom involved the spraying of Bacillus Globigii over Oahu Hawaii during a 2-month period. No civilians were informed, no one’s health was subsequently monitored. For three months in 1966, the Airforce dropped bomblets filled with benzilic acid—a mind-altering chemical—into the Waiakea Forest Reserve southwest of Hilo, Hawaii. No civilians were warned. These are by no means the only documented cases of open air vulnerability testing on unsuspecting civilian populations. This research paper represents a small sample in a large volume of documentation that attests to the fact of the military’s abuse of civilian populations and it’s abuse of the earth as a whole. It should be noted that none of this information was given of free accord. It was gathered during congressional hearings, lawsuits, and investigations. We can only assume, from the monumental efforts required to acquire these reports, and the government’s typical 30 year delay in declassifying documents-whatever documents they have not already destroyed or hidden-that many more heinous and dangerous experiments have been performed than we will ever be privy to. And based on this consistent history of the military’s abhorrent behavior in these matters, we can also assume that experimentation has never ceased, and continues today without our knowledge or consent." http://educate-yourself.org/ct/pellattyouarebeingsprayeAnov07.shtml "Witnesses have documented and photographed military KC-135's, KC-105 and white unmarked jets spray chemtrails. Airport personnel and pilots confirmed specific commercial airliners leaving the long-lasting chemtrails. Although chemtrails are frequently reported, the US Government continues to deny the existence of chemtrails." "In 1994, it was established in a senate committee that the military was developing genetically engineered pathogens since the 1960's when the military initiated a special viral cancer program with the intent to create contagious cancers for biowarfare? There is much laboratory evidence that gels, webs, powders and blood cells have been used to harbor viruses, mycoplasma and/or other bio-engineered toxins until they reach their host. Who besides the department of defense would have the money, power and inclination to besmirch our atmosphere with biological materials and have legal and media immunity?" http://www.mayanmajix.com/art2152.html So much for your 1967 picture.

"So you say. Any PROOF that they were murdered over "top secret, black ops, inside information"? Any proof that the numbered murdered is more than should be expected for that period of time? Just how many are in the world?" Here's proof that this scientist was murdered because of his involvement with black ops projects .. Many of the other scientists were working on black projects also, though it's difficult to get that information, for obvious reasons. Jose Trias, Died: May 19, 1994. Trias and his wife were murdered in their Chevy Chase, Maryland home. They met with a friend of theirs, a journalist, before the day of their murder and told him of their plan to expose HHMI (Howard Hughes Medical Institute) funding of "special ops" research. Grant money that goes to HHMI is actually diverted to special black ops research projects. "You posted 12 links. NINE of them are broken. It is UNTRUE that most work." I didn't count that many as being broken, but if you say so, then it only proves how hard some people are working to suppress the truth of chemtrails.<removed by moderator> "EVERYTHING that has been attributed to "chemtrails" can be explained with contrails, INCLUDING "on/off spraying". Air is not always uniform and a plane traveling through air of varying moisture content can and will produce contrails that turn on and off." No not "EVERYTHING". Contrails (even persistent ones) don't spray toxins in the air that fall to the ground, which make people ill... CHEMTRAILS do. Chemtrails are no longer a secret .. In fact, Operation Clover Leaf and Operation Raindance are no longer top secret programs, since so many people now know about them .. So it looks like no matter how hard you try to suppress the truth of chemtrail spraying, you're fighting a losing battle. "Not much proof, lots of supposition and ignorance. And of course more tests of samples COLLECTED ON THE GROUND. Why aren't you upset that they have promised samples that would actually prove something but they never do it?" No, it's not a lot of proof yet, but considering the fact that many people have been murdered over exposing black op programs like Project Clover Leaf etc., it's surprising there's any publicly known evidence at all.. But I have no doubt that more evidence will be forthcoming as more of the world's population are made aware of what type of toxins are being sprayed in the skies above us. "Why are you content with them lying to you?" The people who are working hard to expose the truth of chemtrail poisoning are not the one's who are lying. Here's another interesting web site about chemtrails, with lots of information from unbroken links, for you to pretend to debunk. AEROSOL CRIMES & COVER UP http://www.carnicom.com/

"Again, multiple "chemtrail" proponents have promised samples collected directly from a trail as long as 10 years ago. Some collected money towards collecting those samples. NO samples have appeared. Why ignore what could be the single best piece of actual evidence you could get?" Considering how many scientists and micro biologists have been brutally murdered over top secret, black ops, inside information, it's understandable why there isn't much lab test data available. Most of the links I posted work.. Just a couple are broken, which happens a lot when certain people are working hard to suppress the truth of certain subjects. Your persistence that persistent contrails are the same thing as chemtrails is not only not true, its absurd, considering the amount of evidence available.. Evidence which includes people from all over the world video recording the air craft involved with the on / off chemical spraying technique.. This fact has been repeatedly proven. Here is another web site, proving that harmful chemtrails are not contrails, where all the links are working fine. http://www.chemtrails911.com/ This site also includes a link to some lab test results taken in Phoenix, Arizona, though for the protection of the people involved, remains anonymous. http://www.rense.com/general82/chemit.htm Other lab test results can be found here.. http://www.carnicom.com/lab1.htm http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000036.html "The most powerful weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed..." - Steve Biko

"Could some be attributed to natural causes (yes) and for those that can't is it proven they were all in fact murdered (no)? Is 100 more than would be expected for this group in that period of time or is it the result of seeing a number and ascribing a meaning to it? How many microbiologists, chemists and virologists are there in the world? How many die each year?" Yes, some of these micro biologists possibly died of natural causes, but many of them obviously did not .. In fact, it's been proven that many of these scientists were brutally murdered.. It has also been proven that many of them were involved with black projects. Here are just a few examples of how these scientists were murdered. "Dr. Ian Langford, 40, found dead at his blood-spattered and ransacked home. Langford was a Senior Fellow at the Univ. of East Anglia's Centre for Social and Economic Research on the Global Environment in the UK. He was discovered by police and ambulance men. The body was naked from the waist down and partly wedged under a chair. Cause of death: not determined by post-mortem examination." "Harvard biochemistry professor Don C. Wiley has been declared missing after his abandoned rental car was discovered on a highway outside of Memphis, Tenn. The car,discovered on I-40—which runs between Memphis and Arkansas—had the keys in the ignition, the hazard lights off and a full tank of gas." "Award-winning micro-biologist David Wynn-Williams, 55, killed by a vehicle while out jogging in England. In 2000 he was appointed leader of the Antarctic Astrobiology Project, which explores the effects of environmental stress at the limits of life on Earth. Wynn-Williams had assessed the capability of microbes to adapt to environmental extremes, including the bombardment of ultraviolet rays and global warming." "Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, a Norwich Free Academy graduate, 56, died May 14, 2004 after being beaten to death during an alleged robbery. Mallove appeared on Coast To Coast AM as recently as Feb. 2004 speaking about alternative energy. Mallove was well respected for his knowledge of cold fusion." http://www.infinite-energy.com/ "Jeong H. Im, retired protein chemist, age 72, was found in the burning trunk of his car with mutlitple stab wounds to the chest." "Tsunao Saitoh- Tsunao Saitoh was a leading Alzheimer's researcher. He and his 13 year-old daughter were killed in La Jolla, California, in what a Reuters report described as a "very professionally done" shooting. He was dead behind the wheel of the car, the side window had been shot out, and the door was open. His daughter appeared to have tried to run away and she was shot dead, also." "Victor Korshunov- Victor Korshunov was an expert in intestinal bacteria of children around the world. He was bashed over the head near his home in Moscow." "Robert Leslie Burghoff- Robert Leslie Burghoff was studying the virus that was plaguing cruise ships until he was killed by a mysterious white van in November of 2003. Burghoff was walking on a sidewalk along the 1600 block of South Braeswood when a white van jumped the curb and hit him at 1:35 p.m. Thursday, police said. The van then sped away. Burghoff died an hour later at Memorial Hermann Hospital." "William T. McGuire- William T. McGuire was a NJ University Professor and Senior programmer analyst and adjunct professor at the New Jersey Institute of Technology in Newark. His dismembered body was found floating in three suitcases in the Chesapeake Bay." "Dr. Eugene F. Mallove - Mallove was well respected for his knowledge of cold fusion. He had just published an open letter outlining the results of and reasons for his last 15 years in the field of new energy research. Dr. Mallove was convinced it was only a matter of months before the world would actually see a free energy device. He Died after being beaten to death during an alleged robbery." "Caroline Coffey, 28. Died June 3, from massive cuts to her throat. Hikers found the body of the Cornell Univ. post-doctoral bio-medicine researcher along a wooded trail in the park, just outside Ithaca, N.Y., where the Ivy League school is located. Her husband was hospitalized under guard after a police chase and their apartment set on fire." "Dr. Mario Alberto Vargas Olvera, age 52. Died: Oct. 6, 2007 as a result of several blunt-force injuries to his head and neck. Ruled as murder. Found in his home. He was a nationally and internationally recognized biologist. Died 2006" "Jeong H. Im, age 72. Died: January 7, 2005. Korean Jeong H. Im, died of multiple stab wounds to the chest before firefighters found in his body in the trunk of a burning car on the third level of the Maryland Avenue Garage. A retired research assistant professor at the University of Missouri – Columbia and primarily a protein chemist, MUPD with the assistance of the Columbia Police Department and Columbia Fire Department are conducting a death investigation of the incident. A “person of interest” described as a male 6′–6′2″ wearing some type of mask possible a painters mask or drywall type mask was seen in the area of the Maryland Avenue Garage. Dr. Im was primarily a protein chemist and he was a researcher in the field. Died in 2004" "Dr. Eugene Mallove, age 56. Died: May 14, 2004. Autopsy confirmed Mallove died as a result of several blunt-force injuries to his head and neck. Ruled as murder. Found at the end of his driveway. Alt. Energy Expert who was working on viable energy alternative program and announcement. Norwich Free Academy graduate. Beaten to death during an alleged robbery. Mallove was well respected for his knowledge of cold fusion. He had just published an “open letter” outlining the results of and reasons for his last 15 years in the field of “new energy research.” Dr. Mallove was convinced it was only a matter of months before the world would actually see a free energy device." "William T. McGuire, age 39. Found May 5, 2004, last seen late April 2004. Body found in three suitcases floating in Chesapeake Bay. He was NJ University Professor and Senior programmer analyst and adjunct professor at the New Jersey Institute of Technology in Newark. He emerged as one of the world’s leading microbiologists and an expert in developing and overseeing multiple levels of biocontainment facilities." " 'Dr. Roger' Died: Summer 2003. 'Roger' was pseudonym for this genetics scientist. He was 17 and lived in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947 when the unexplained object crashed. He told a woman he worked with in 1977 named 'Kate' while employed by the Navy, who he helped to clean up the crash site of the 1947 UFO. He subsequently went to work for the government at this young age and ended up a geneticist working in China Lake for the Navy. Although he lived in fear and hiding soon after he told his story to Kate, he retired in late 1990s or early 2000's and she saw him again once in early 2002 in San Diego. He told her she was in danger to talk to him and he left the store. In 2003 she received a phone call from his 'friend' who said he had been executed in his retirement home in Connecticut. The body had been removed by a black government looking vehicle. The home had been cleaned up and the body removed without any public notices of his death or existence. Many disfigured and abnormal animals were found in the desert near Groom Lake during his time there and after. Kate thought he might have been doing this gruesome experimental work." "Dr. David Wynn-Williams, age 55. Died: March 24, 2002.Hit by a car while jogging near his home in Cambridge, England. He was an astrobiologist with the Antarctic Astrobiology Project and the NASA Ames Research Center. He was studying the capability of microbes to adapt to environmental extremes, including the bombardment of ultraviolet rays and global warming." "Dr. Tsunao Saitoh, age 46. Died: May 7, 1996. Shot and killed, along with his young daughter, in LaJolla, California. He was dead behind the wheel of the car, the side window had been shot out, and the door was open. His daughter appeared to have tried to run away and she was shot dead, also. The hit was compared to other killings of Japanese in this country by muggers. Expert in abnormal proteins in Alzheimer." And last on my list, but certainly not least.. Jose Trias, Died: May 19, 1994. Trias and his wife were murdered in their Chevy Chase, Maryland home. They met with a friend of theirs, a journalist, before the day of their murder and told him of their plan to expose HHMI (Howard Hughes Medical Institute) funding of "special ops" research. Grant money that goes to HHMI is actually diverted to special black ops research projects. Amd the list goes on and on ... http://www.scribd.com/doc/23705517/Over-100-Microbiologists-Chemists-and-Virologists-Have-Died