Kathleen Collins

Hi, this might already exist but we should surely have a key dates in 1963 link for viewers to see and post around as the 50th anniversary approaches. This could contextualize and snag new readers.

For example I know that the 50th anniversary of the Magnolia Oil Party is coming up in Feb. We should have a thread of key dates with brief descriptions of their significance in the broader historical narrative.

My friend, Walt Brown, is writing a timeline. It should be ready for Dallas.

Kathy C

Actually, Tommy, I said it to Hemming. He said I was on the right track. I don't know if JFK was aware, but I highly doubt it. RFK--very possibly. LHO, yes.

You mention Weberman with such contempt. I was relying on him about something he knew about, namely the Assassination. I figured he's Jewish and would have no reason to lie. I didn't read his book, but I knew he taught the Assassination at Columbia. I asked him, "Did the Catholic Church have anything to do with Kennedy's death?" He answered, "No."

I remember back to his following Bob Dylan and Dylan turned around and punched him. We all laughed.

The Baptists think the Catholics killed Kennedy. Something about Cardinal Spellman. Spellman, I've read, was jealous of Fulton Sheen and caused him a lot of trouble and moved him to Rochester. Sheen made no friends there. I want to read more about this. The Baptists think Kennedy was killed because the Catholic Church didn't like his politics. Supposedly the Black Pope ordered the hit.

I only know of one connection: David Ferrie was an ex-Jesuit and wanted to kill Kennedy.

Kathy C

There will be a book called Hit List coming out on April 1, 2013. It's about the mysterious deaths after the Kennedy Assassination. I can think of several left wingers who died from unnatural causes and maybe not .

Jerry Rubin - Jaywalking

Abbie Hoffman - 100 phenobarbital pills. Diagnosed as manic-depressive.

Hunter S. Thompson - allegedly killed himself with a gun. Rumors about his visit to Bohemian Grove.

Phil Ochs - allegedy hung himself. Pictures exist of him standing in front of the Dal-Tex building when Kennedy was murdered.

John Lennon - shot to death. Was allegedly giving money to secret left-wing groups. His phones tapped. Being followed. Possibly a cocaine addict. Bay of Pigs survivor in charge of security that night. Ronald Reagan President Elect.

Here's another one I wonder fits into the mold:

Lenny Bruce - OD'd on Heroin. Spoke a lot about the Assassination in night clubs.

Kathy C

I mentioned on another thread that the first reply to the Dallas Morning News blog Jim D linked to recently was placed there by Jim Fetzer. I'm informed that Judyth Baker Vary has now also entered the mix and that her story is being supported by Jesse Ventura. Her story by the way having more and more absurdities added to it including exciting new revelations about Oswald's shirt (yawn).

Every news item I seem to come across that bears any sort of relationship to the assassination of JFK quickly has Fetzer crawling all over it linking to his Veteran's Today articles. I can't help but suspect that there is a campaign at work and it is made up of several levels.

I long ago came to the conclusion that James Fetzer was purposely trying to undermine all of the hard work that has been completed by very tireless and dedicated researchers over the past four decades. Similar to the way in which he has systematically helped destroy the reputation and credibility of the nine-eleven truth movement.

It will be Fetzer who will be appearing on CNN and FOX News come the anniversary and he will be accompanied by the poisoned chimp, Ralph Cinque. I'm surprised by Jesse Ventura giving creedence to Baker's story and the whole thing seems to be getting completely out of hand.

I don't really hold out much hope that the more sensible voices, such as Jim DiEugenio's, will be heard in November, and even though RFK Jr. has come out with his claims, I don't see it having the impact we need.

Do I sound pessimistic?

Lee

My choices would be Greg Burnham and/or Walt Brown.

Kathy C

Reading the article makes me wonder whether we are being prepared for release of documents that will show that the CIA took their eyes off the ball and underestimated the danger LHO posed. The secrecy up until now will be explained as covering up for the CIA's incompetence, and not as covering up any conspiracy to assassinate the president. I suppose I would call this Plan C, which is like Plan A with the caveat that the murder should have been preventable had the intelligence services kept their eyes on the ball.

The CIA had much to do with the Assassination. E. Howard Hunt, for example. It's an interesting thought though. But it would mean that LHO had something to do with the Assassination. Duncan Macrae showed us with his photography gift that Tan Jacket Man was at the 6th floor window and probably shot at Kennedy -- the "firecracker." Kennedy felt something there and that's why the turn was excised from the Z-film. Not only are the CIA hiding their incompetence, presumbably, but that of the Secret Service too. But I believe the CIA played their part.

Kathy C

=Penn Jones Jr

Other deaths he considered to be suspicious included that of Karyn Kupcinet: "A few days before the assassination, Karyn Kupcinet, 23, was trying to place a long distance telephone call from the Los Angeles area. According to reports, the long distance operator heard Miss Kupcinet scream into the telephone that President Kennedy was going to be killed. Two days after the assassination, Miss Kupcinet was found murdered in her apartment. The case has never been solved."

Greg Parker more or less solved the case of the Oxnard Call. I thought it's possible that, especially as the logistics were wrong, She was in West Hollywood when Kennedy was shot. She was not the woman on the phone.

To make a long story short, I feel she could have been killed to shock Chicago and wipe Jack Ruby off the headlines. Karyn was well known in Chicago. Her father was its most beloved man. A book is coming out concerning the dead witnesses after the Kennedy Assassination. She was the first one after Lee Harvey Oswald to die mysteriously.

Many years ago I consulted a psychic. I asked her who killed Karyn Kupcinet. She replied, "A tall man with black hair and he's there because of addiction. He spoke 2 languages.

At the time I was told this, I did not know the nature of the pills she was taking. Two days before her death she had Desoxyn refilled at a pharmacy.. Desoxyn is methamphetamine. Police found in her medicine chest a bottle for 100 pills, dated 2 days before and the pills were missing. The bottle was there but the pills were gone. When I spoke to this trusted psychic, for whatever it's worth, I did not know about these pills. The place looked ransacked but nothing else was taken. Richard Belzer and David Wayne are writing a book about the dead witnesses. They will acknowledge me in the book. It's called Hit List.

Kathy C

I just finished reading "Mrs. Kennedy." Regarding the Assassination, the author, Barbara Leaming, referenced Gerald Posner - Case Closed. There was an explanation to the casket switch. They had to get another coffin because the bronze one suffered some kind of damage. So there was a second coffin. Nowhere does she mention the fight the Secret Service and hospital employees about where Kennedy was going to be autopsied. The law states it should have been done in Texas. But Kennedy's people said they were bringing him to another hospital. (Bethesda.) I'm sure Jackie didn't want it in Texas. The Secret Service won. Had Kennedy been autopsied in Texas they would have done a superior surgery than the 3 ring circus waiting for him at Bethesda.

Then, when Jackie and the body of her husband arrived at the White House around 4 am, there was no viewing. Previous to this account, I read that Jackie looked at his body and said, "It isn't him," and walked away. Bobby Kennedy stood there with a family friend and said, "It doesn't even look like him." His friend said, "It isn't him. It's a wax dummy. Close the coffin." This doesn't occur in Leaming's book. She also said that Jackie was given a sedative, which didn't seem to affect her. I had always read that she refused a sedative because she wanted to get to work on Jack's funeral. She wanted it to be like Lincoln's.

Throughout the book, Leaming wrote of Mary Pinchot Meyer. Leaming describes the shots from Dr. Feelgood that both Jackie and the President took frequently. Mary Meyer claimed she had several LSD sessions with the President. She felt he was changing fast and that's why they killed him. In fact, according to this book, Kennedy often did things that gave him favorable reviews. But in his last year, according to Leaming, his character had changed. The Test Ban Treaty and Civil Rights became issues of morality rather than politics. He could lose the Presidency over these issues, but the British PM had been calling for Kennedy to reach his potential greatness by forgetting about politics and doing the right thing instead. So he did change that last year, (But before Texas, he had sunk into his old ways.) Moral character? Or LSD?

Leaming swept aside the Marilyn Monroe case. She lied and said MM didn't sleep with the President the night of the birthday party. And little about her death.

Kathy C

I think most of you are aware of Richard Belzer and co-writer David Wayne's books. Another one is coming out called "Hit List." Well, guess what. They are using my shock crime theory of Karyn Kupcinet's death. My name will be mentioned twice. The book is about the strange deaths of many people, Karyn being one, after Kennedy's Assassination.

I know most of the theories, if not all. I theorized that her death was to keep the Mob and Ruby out of the headlines in Chicago. And maybe give Irv Kupcinet something to do in his free moments instead of following the mob trail to the Assassination. When that wound down Frank Sinatra Jr was kidnapped. That kept people riveted. Who worked harder to get Kennedy elected than Frank Sinatra? BTW, the Chicago Mob offered to go out to Hollywood and try to solve the murder. Irv Kupcinet declined. Why?

There's a story that has been going around that Karyn had committed suicide, especially as the coroner lied about how she died. He had a fetish for strangled women. Two women were exhumed and found to have died from other causes than strangulation. He made a comment to one of his colleagues, "At least I didn't break the hyoid bone on that one." Whose hyoid bone did he break? Karyn's? This had to get back to the Kupcinets.

But the story going around is that she killed herself and Irv wanted the whole thing quieted as she was on speed big time. He wouldn't even take a favor from the Mob. He didn't want it getting out that she was a "hop-head," in James Ellroy's term. But when that coroner got into trouble, Kupcinet had to wonder: did she commit suicide? All his friends thought she did.

Kathy C

Tom, this is a very interesting tale. I would like to know more. I don't see why you're bothered by it. Was Oswald in with this group of men? Was Ruby? Suppose it was just the KKK who killed President Kennedy because of his civil rights bill (posthumous) or getting James Meredith into school?

Kathy C

Colby, you think you got me but you haven't. Several times I posted that I was a member of that group. But make one thing clear: their Kennedy Assassination forum is horrible. I said it over there and I'm saying it here. I was trying to find out what the thought was about Kennedy's death. They had a theory that the shooters "let him live." Also, Jackie killed him with a small gun under his chin. When I hear conspiracy theories, some of them are strange. All I got out of them is that the Assassination was a hoax. But why, how? I never learned. They are the stupidest people around. But their 9/11 research is amazing. And I've said that before.

I'm not ashamed of being on their forum. Somehow, Colby, you didn't see the other posts I made over there.

This was an attempt to "disgrace" me. . One of the threads here said Oswald had an I.Q. of approx. 118. My I.Q., buster, is 146.

Nighty night.

Kathy C

I always wonder about just how dumb Oswald was (as a patsy)...he did the Russian thing...then turned around and did the "Fair play for Cuba" thing. Surely most relatively intelligent people would realize that they were putting themselves at risk for a setup in each instance.

I mean the guy wasn't just a patsy...he was the patsies' patsy. He was as gullible as they come. I guess they told him that handing out those flyers helped them to build their database on "enemies"...but wouldn't a normal prudent person understand what that meant to him - as far as a personal persona?

I'm with you, David. Where were his brains? People in his building must have been talking about Kennedy coming in a motorcade. Oswald shouldn't have come to work that day. But, like David says, was he an idiot?

Kathy C

I watched this show today. I've seen the name Max Holland around, but didn't know who he is. I think I'm connected to him on Facebook. He's the apologist for the Warren Commission. I think he believes in what he says. I just don't believe it.

I have a photo I wanted to show. From high up, it's a B/W picture of Dealey Plaza. I can now see how someone filmed the motorcade. They were in the Pergola. I didn't think they could get the turn onto Elm, but they did according to some people who've seen the "other" film. I can't produce the picture here. I don't understand the new "My Media" and my picture doesn't have a URL.

Kathy C

I concur. I want to tell Don R. that I am studying his map, looking at Dal-Tex and TSBD. In front of the garage of the Dal-Tex building exist 2 photos of Phil Ochs. It is definitely him. Everything matches up, especially his ears. I've read that a group was supposedly going to save Kennedy. When did they get there? As Kennedy's limo was on Houston St. There are what looks like 2 men on the South Knoll by the Y shaped tree. Somehow I think Ochs was involved in this scheme, if it really exists. They were going to be where the snipers were and stop them from shooting at Kennedy. They were too late. It was like the Gang Who Couldn't Shoot Straight. Years later Phil Ochs "committed suicide" by hanging. Friends say he was very depressed. His career was going nowhere. But I find his death very suspicious. There were a whole lot of strange deaths of these prominent left-wing people. Abby Hoffman took 100 Xanax. Jerry Rubin got killed jay-walking. Hunter Thompson - a shot to the head. Friends said he was depressed. His son was in the house (Hunter on the porch) and never heard a thing. His wife was on the phone and heard a weird noise and Thompson didn't answer her. She rushed home and found him dead. John Lennon is another example. Reagan elect was in. Forces were changing. I don't think Reagan had anything to do with John's death. It's just the forces around him were taking charge. Who killed John Lennon on Dec.8,1980? The man in charge of the Lennons' safety was Jose Perdomo, aka General San Genis, a survivor of the Bay of Pigs. The CIA kept him on to do jobs. He might have worked there years waiting. Who killed John Lennon? In my opinion George HW Bush, the new Vice President-elect. These were the forces swirling around Reagan. Reagan himself was shot in the chest. I believe George HW Bush tried to have Reagan assassinated so he would become President and start the New World Order, which is against our Constitution. They'd been working towards this from Nov.22, 1963 on. The sniveling, faggy, sensitive, all-welcoming man was just the opposite. A son of a Nazi.

None of these dead left-wing men died from natural causes. And that includes Congressman ® Sonny Bono, who was told by a private detective that the higher ups were trading in drugs from Southeast Asia. Sonny said he was going to bring it up soon as Congress convenes. He wound up dead from blunt head injuries, not a skiing accident.

Kathy C

Adamson seems to be a bit off his rocker. Didn't he claim that Jackie was a CIA agent?

I don't know about Adamson, but Dick Gregory said the same thing about Jackie Kennedy on the Mike Douglas Show shortly after Reagan was shot. He said Jackie still goes to Dallas.

Kathy C

I hope I can go to Dallas next year. I would love to meet the people on this forum and hear interesting talks. I want someone to tell me why Donald O. Norton is important. Also the cropped photo that caught the hood of the limo rushing towards Parkland Hospital. I'd like to know what that man was doing on the rooftop with Kennedy being in Dallas, even if he didn't have a rifle. And wore possibly a police hat. All the sirens that were going on. Kennedy on Stemmons Freeway. Why can't we get Robert Oswald's DNA and match it to one of Oswald's daughters. He's not their uncle in my opinion.

Yours Truly,

Kathy Collins

This article was published in a paper called "Midnight" around 1971. We laughed our asses off reading this stuff. They also had a story called, "Boy Eats Own Foot." And it was really a piece of pizza. Again, hysterics.

And a thread like this, started by Mr.Colby deliberately, only brings more attention to those out there contributing in any way they can, in putting the serious researchers down and hopefully in heaping more ridicule on them by the media sharks...b

Bernice, I don't think Colby wanted us to be ridiculed. It's a Kennedy Assassination site and it's terrible. Phil Jayhan also believes the Assassination was faked. When I wanted to talk about it, he declined because he wanted to focus on 9-11.

Kathy C

The "JFK-MURDER" was a STAGED EVENT / JFK wasn't "KILLED" on 11/22/63!

Also, please visit this research article showing John Ogonowski, pilot of Flight 11 on 9/11 to be a total fraud: PROVEN FRAUD: Fl #11 - 1st Victim of 9/11: John Ogonowski - Fake Pics in 911 Memorial

The events in Dealey Plaza were a Psy-Op

The 'shots' and JFK's 'headwound' were simulated, the purpose was to create an immense MYTH in plain sight.

The interactions between the 6 people in the limo are probably the key to debunking the JFK 'assassination'- hoax.

Here are 2 of the many visible interesting interactions:

The above is NOT a spoof from the Onion or similar source, it is the begining of the OP of a thread on a forum which attracks the most deranged CT's I've ever seen. Apparently the author really believes what s/he wrote. Click the link below for more if you must:

http://letsrollforum...3127.html?amp;

I am somewhat acquainted with Phil Jahan, who runs that forum. First of all, his 9-11 stuff is amazing; and the research these people have done. I'm in there as "Sardonicus."

Regarding the Kennedy Assassination -- it was the worst site I've ever come across. They think Jackie shot her husband from beneath his chin in Dealey Plaza. And Mrs. Connally helped Jackie by passing her a vial with fake blood in it to spill all over herself. They got this from the Zapruder film. To me it's an embarrassment. Especially since the 9-11 stuff is terrific. All 4 flights landed in Cleveland Airport. These people were herded in a NASA building and another building on the opposite side of the airport. These were the passengers on all 4 flights. They were told there was a bomb scare. These people have never been seen again. They comprised millionnaires, people who worked for Disney and other graphic people involved in the fakery. One, either they died in an unwanted plane that flew by remote over the Atlantic and which plummeted to the water and everyone drowned. I bet it's possible to find that plane in the Atlantic.

Or else the people underwent plastic surgery and in some kind of witness protection life, involving the good things one could wish for: a new life.

Barbara Olson's identity was researched and her resume doesn't seem possible. She is the 3rd wife of Ted Olson, who got Bush into the white house, winning the trial between Bush and Al Gore. How did his first 2 wives die? Watch him on Larry King -- if available -- he can't work up a tear. Phony.

So this is a good 9-11 forum. Amazing.

Kathy C

There was a man on this forum who posted photos of Black dog man and he placed layers over the photo and he found what looked like 2 men dressed as cops close together. And that there were 3 other cops near Black Dog Man. I don't recall the man's name. He should have taken part in this thread.

Kathy C

Both hands are not is his pockets.

You're right. I stand corrected. Good catch.

It's virtually impossible to tell what his left hand is doing in the full-speed clip.

But in this clip, I don't see an object in his left hand. I see his fingers moving, though.

The coolest part of this clip, though, is watching the man in the background (in the raincoat/trenchcoat). Set his moves to some "Saturday Night Fever" music, and you're all set.

Or "Murder on the dance floor" Maybe?.

I believe the man in Blue has a dark blue plaid hat on. This is why his head looks weird. Also as he turns a bit toward TJM his face looks caucasian.

My other problem is Duncan Macrae. Remember he found what the TSBD shooter looked like from a photo? An advanced technique. Is it a coincidence that Tan Jacket Man had the same bald spot and looked exactly like Duncan's picture. It is my understanding that Duncan got the image first and then someone looked at the Hughes film -- and there he was! Why doesn't anyone address this?

Kathy C

Tommy if we could find a better picture of Larry Jones we could do a comparison

With Tan man.apparently Mr Truly knew tan man did he also know Larry Jones?.

Did Baker feel the need to pull his gun on Tan Man or

Was Truly expecting him?.

Ian,

Was Truly expecting "Tan Man" to be where he was (on the third or fourth floor) at that time?

Probably. It's also possible that he confused "Tan Man" for LHO.

--Tommy ;sun

But how could that be Tommy as he had just seen "Oswald" on the second floor?.

I know they "missed the sixth" but that's a

Big leap Tommy!.

Ian,

I agree that another picture of Larry Jones would be extremely useful. I'm not 100% convinced it was him because the facial similarity is not as strong when TJM turns his head, and also, others whose opinions I respect aren't convinced.

Yet there is enough similarity(dark eyes, light spot on top of head, slender build, age etc), added to Jones' mystery phone call just prior to or just after the assassination placing him in Dallas when he had allegedly left, and Weissman's weird reaction to that call, to give me pause to continue considering the possibility.

FWIW, The 2nd floor encounter, imo, and that of a growing number of others, was a fiction. Baker initially said 3rd or 4th floor and his description was much closer to that of TJM than it was to Oswald - and that's despite having Oswald in the same room when he was giving that description. On top of that, the 6th floor witnesses all match TJM better than Oswald.

I note that someone at the other forum where this has been discussed, stated that TJM appears to do a military type turn. Does anyone else see it that way? If true, I think it may be significant.

Here is the exact quote from Jonathan Nolan: "...TJM peels off out of the crowd, with almost a heel turn like in the army, before leaving pretty rapidly..." [emphasis mine]

I'd really like to get opinions on this.

To me he was the shooter from the 6th floor. Duncan Macrae used later photographic technology to get the face of the man in that window. And then someone found that man in the Hughes film. To me that's 100% proof. I know thousands of people will disagree with me.

In the gif the man in Blue looks to me like he has a blue plaid hat on.

Kathy C

I'm reading a book now which has probably been discussed but I searched and could not find it.

It's called "Mrs. Kennedy." It's supposed to be about Jackie in the Kennedy White House. But what it is about is John Kennedy's presidency. Put aside all his womanizing, and the author says Kennedy was not as noble as his speeches made him out to be. What it boils down to is that Kennedy had no moral compass, according to Leaming. Regarding the Bay of Pigs Kennedy was against sending additional help. It wasn't just he made a mistake, but he thought positive on it as long as he could get away with it. He didn't get away with it. According to Leaming, he did nothing right because he was never shown morality while growing up and his character did not have an ounce of morality.

It's just a sneaky book that considers every step Kennedy took. I learned more about Jackie in "Bobby and Jackie." I'm at the section where he's dealing with Dr. Feelgood and about to go to Vienna for a talk with Kruschev (sp). This book is a shady look at John Kennedy, a continual attack on him. I just wondered if anyone else had read it and what they thought. It's a hatchet job.

Kathy C

In my view, this is irresponsible research. How can one seriously claim that the man seen may be the shooter from the Grassy Knoll?

Why?

What makes him suspect?

Moreover, even IF true, there are absolutely no identifying features to be obtained from the very limited amount of information available

in this photo. I see no value in pursuing this line of inquiry.

I disagree. His body has a look of someone sneaking out from some place. He's suspicious. I don't see the harm of investigating further. It's not a waste of time.

Kathy C

Why on earth would anyone believe a xxxx like Tim Leary in the first place?

BTW John, do you also buy that Leary had a dalliance with Marilyn Monroe?

Supposedly every man she met she fooled around with. It's baloney. She did have affairs with married men. She was also an alcoholic and a drug user. Everyone either enjoyed her favors or spoke to her on the phone that last night. I never heard a connection having to do with Tim Leary, his LSD and Marilyn Monroe. I don't believe it.

Do any of you remember "Mr. ED" the talking horse? The man on that show -- Alan something -- later became a minister. But before "Mr. Ed" he claims he met Marilyn Monroe and they hit it off in the late '40's. He wrote a book about it.

I think these claims are ridiculous.

Kathy C

Am I the only one, who is convinced that the first BUM was a firecracker thrown by a device, seen by Amos Euins, who described it as a "pipe", extending from the Oswald window?

A Firecracker, used to distracted attention and as a starting signal for the real shooters?

Quote WC testimony of Mrs Donald Baker

Mr. Liebeler.

As you went down Elm Street that you saw this thing hit the street--what did it look like when you saw it?

Mrs. Baker.

Well, as I said, I thought it was a firecracker. It looked just like you could see the sparks from it and I just thought it was a firecracker and I was thinking that there was somebody was fixing to get in a lot of trouble and we thought the kids or whoever threw it were down below or standing near the underpass or back up here by the sign.

c.quote

This has to be the silliest post I've seen since the Cinzer circus came to a halt. Wouldn't it have been easier to have someone firing blanks? And if for some bizarre reason preferred to use a firecracker why drop it to the sidewalk? Can we all assume that despite extensive searches you were unable to find any other corroborating evidence?

I believe that Greer deliberately kept Kennedy in one place like a sitting duck. This would have left Kennedy wide open for a shot. I don't believe it was a firecracker. It was a miss. Down Elm, Kennedy received the last of the bullets. It was Greer slowing down and coming to a stop. The Cuban was signaling the limo to stop. Greer pulled the car to the left, took his hands off the wheel and put his head in a certain place and saw Kennedy received the fatal 2 shots. The important thing is the motorcade came to a stop. I read that they had been moving at 11 miles an hour. Because I had a flat tire the other day, I drove at 8 miles an hour for air and a young man helped me put air in the tires. Eight miles is so slow. And the turn onto Elm is missing from the Zapruder film.

Kathy C