Kathleen Collins
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Karyn Kupcinet is another whose death has been linked to the Kennedy assassination. I am not convinced but it is an interesting story.
Irv Kupcinet was a well-known journalist and television talk show host. He knew Jack Ruby in Chicago in the 1940s. According to W. Penn Jones (Forgive My Grief, 1966) Kupcinet kept in contact with Ruby and discovered that he was involved in a plot to assassinate President John F. Kennedy. Jones argues that Kupcinet passed this information on to his daughter Karyn. In his book, Forgive My Grief, Jones reports that "a few days before the assassination, Karyn Kupcinet, 23, was trying to place a long distance telephone call from the Los Angeles area. According to reports, the long distance operator heard Miss Kupcinet scream into the telephone that President Kennedy was going to be killed."
Karyn Kupcinet's body was discovered on 30th November, 1963. Police estimated that she had been dead for two days. The New York Times reported that she had been strangled. Her actor boyfriend, Andrew Prine was the main suspect but he was never charged with the murder and the crime remains unsolved.
Some researchers have claimed that there was a strong link between the death of Kupcinet and the assassination of John F. Kennedy. It was argued that the conspirators were trying to frighten Kupcinet from telling what he knew. Irv Kupcinet rejected this idea. He wrote in the Chicago Sun-Times (9th November, 1992): "The NBC Today Show on Friday carried a list of people who died violently in 1963 shortly after the death of President John F. Kennedy and may have had some link to the assassination. The first name on the list was Karyn Kupcinet, my daughter. That is an atrocious outrage. She did die violently in a Hollywood murder case still unsolved. That same list was published in a book years ago with no justification or verification. The book left the impression that some on the list may have been killed to silence them because of knowledge of the assassination. Nothing could be further from the truth in my daughter's case."
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKkupcinet.htm
Karyn Kupcinet
If you would like to see Karyn Kupcinet, she's on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enoyNF5c-iA
She is in the audience with Steve Allen. It's the Jerry Lewis Show Premiere Pt 2, 1963. She appears at 6:42 in the video. The whole video is about 11 minutes.
There is a scene with Karyn Kupcinet acting in Jerry Lewis' movie Ladies Man. Here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Jerry+Lewis+Ladies+Man&aq=f
She came from Chicago and looks healthy in this movie. She was anorexic. Her death remains a mystery. Even Dr. Cyril Wecht can't call it. The girl had no luck.
You can see Karyn Kupcinet in the Ladies Man with Jerry Lewis, spring 1961, on my new blog.
whatpricefame.blogspot.com
Kathy C
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Karyn Kupcinet is another whose death has been linked to the Kennedy assassination. I am not convinced but it is an interesting story.
Irv Kupcinet was a well-known journalist and television talk show host. He knew Jack Ruby in Chicago in the 1940s. According to W. Penn Jones (Forgive My Grief, 1966) Kupcinet kept in contact with Ruby and discovered that he was involved in a plot to assassinate President John F. Kennedy. Jones argues that Kupcinet passed this information on to his daughter Karyn. In his book, Forgive My Grief, Jones reports that "a few days before the assassination, Karyn Kupcinet, 23, was trying to place a long distance telephone call from the Los Angeles area. According to reports, the long distance operator heard Miss Kupcinet scream into the telephone that President Kennedy was going to be killed."
Karyn Kupcinet's body was discovered on 30th November, 1963. Police estimated that she had been dead for two days. The New York Times reported that she had been strangled. Her actor boyfriend, Andrew Prine was the main suspect but he was never charged with the murder and the crime remains unsolved.
Some researchers have claimed that there was a strong link between the death of Kupcinet and the assassination of John F. Kennedy. It was argued that the conspirators were trying to frighten Kupcinet from telling what he knew. Irv Kupcinet rejected this idea. He wrote in the Chicago Sun-Times (9th November, 1992): "The NBC Today Show on Friday carried a list of people who died violently in 1963 shortly after the death of President John F. Kennedy and may have had some link to the assassination. The first name on the list was Karyn Kupcinet, my daughter. That is an atrocious outrage. She did die violently in a Hollywood murder case still unsolved. That same list was published in a book years ago with no justification or verification. The book left the impression that some on the list may have been killed to silence them because of knowledge of the assassination. Nothing could be further from the truth in my daughter's case."
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKkupcinet.htm
Karyn Kupcinet
If you would like to see Karyn Kupcinet, she's on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enoyNF5c-iA
She is in the audience with Steve Allen. It's the Jerry Lewis Show Premiere Pt 2, 1963. She appears at 6:42 in the video. The whole video is about 11 minutes.
There is a scene with Karyn Kupcinet acting in Jerry Lewis' movie Ladies Man. Here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Jerry+Lewis+Ladies+Man&aq=f
She came from Chicago and looks healthy in this movie. She was anorexic. Her death remains a mystery. Even Dr. Cyril Wecht can't call it. The girl had no luck.
Kathy C
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Link to video of Ventura on Fox News
Jesse Ventura Told Fox News "We Have Real JFK Assassin Death Bed Confession."
About 3 minutes into the interview
Sounds like his confession might be the one from E. Howard Hunt..
You are right. I saw most of the show. E. Howard Hunt, very old, lying down with a camera on him and a tape recorder going. He said he would confess to the Assassination as long as it was put on TV to the public. I would like to watch the show again, as I was flipping channels to find something interesting and came across this.
Kathy C
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Quote:
i have no way of knowing how the positions of Police motorcyclists Jackson and Chaney were
Martin.
I don't see jackson anywhere in this Z-frame.
Jackson continued NORTH on Houston past ELM? --He didn't negotiate the turn onto Elm. Perhaps he couldn't have without being run over by the X-100...
I thought the missing motorcycle cop turned down the road to the parking lot behind the pergola. I don't know what he did then.
Kathy C
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I found this on the Democratic Underground (which has nothing to do with the Democratic Party):
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/city/p...
"Meningitis worsened by liver failure, probably from acetaminophen
By KATIE FAIRBANK / The Dallas Morning News
Socialite Shannon Murchison died of acute bacterial meningitis that spread throughout her system, according to a report released Monday by the Dallas County medical examiner's office.
Shannon Murchison
The meningitis was due to a strain of listeria, bacteria that can be found in food poisoning, investigators concluded. Her illness was compounded by liver failure probably caused by acetaminophen, the active ingredient in Tylenol and other medications.
"The liver failure was very dramatic," said chief medical examiner Jeffrey Barnard. "It is likely that she took a pretty good amount of acetaminophen."
The death was ruled accidental rather than natural due to the probable use of acetaminophen, Dr. Barnard said.
Mrs. Murchison, 47, the former wife of Clint Murchison III, was declared brain dead April 28 after a couple of days on life support. An autopsy was ordered in part because she had reported to police on April 19 that she had suffered a black eye and extensive bruising. The circumstances of her illness and death shocked many in Highland Park, raising questions among friends and fueling gossip.
Dr. Barnard said the bruising to Mrs. Murchison's eye was a traumatic injury but that it "played no role in her death." He said he could not determine what caused the injury. Other bruising could have occurred because her blood clotting ability was impaired by her illness and liver failure, he said."
What happened to this poor woman?
Kathy C
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I looked through the search engine and all I found on the subject was the Camarillo Ranch, which discussed, among other things, the Oxnard call and Rosicrucian activity. Greg Parker solved the riddle of the Oxnard call: it was a woman, who was not upset, using a phone as a Rosicrucian instument of Radionics. Operators overheard her saying Kennedy was going to be killed at 10:10 PT. The motorcade was late due to the amount of people who turned out to see the handsome couple, President John F. Kennedy and Jackie, his beautiful wife. He kept telling her to take off her sunglasses.
President Kennedy was shot at 12:30 pm CT, just a few minutes after the call. The phone company called the FBI.
I wanted to say that Clint Murchison III, probably the most powerful man in Dallas/California. His ex-wife, Shannon, was seeing a psychiatrist. She was only in her late forties. Basically she became an invalid. Her biggest interests were vintage clothing and various charities. Shannon died a mysterious death. She was found with 2 black eyes and other bad bruises. The Coroner, whom I believe was scared, came out with a cause of death being severe liver damage.
The Coroner said stupidly, "She must have used too much Tylenol." Baloney. Any coroner in his right mind would not use a product brand name. Acetaminiphen is present in many products other than Tylenol. I have a theory and it's conjecture. First of all, a woman with her financial resources could probably get better pain killers from a doctor rather than an over the counter product in a supermarket or drug store.
Secondly, wouldn't one of her doctors send her for blood work and see illness regarding her liver? It happened so fast.
Her sister said she died from a fall and nothing else. But how does someone's liver get damaged so thoroughly to the extent the coroner said? There was no mention of alcohol. So here's my theory which is pure conjecture: Could someone have served her a meal that contained a poison mushroom in it? They are so toxic, these mushrooms; they kill you right away.
I'm just throwing this out there and see if others have any opinions about it.
Kathy C
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Rosicrucian undercurrents to the Oxnard call have been brought to the surface by a very esteemed researcher....as some are aware.
The name of the esteemed researcher was Greg Parker from Australia.
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Jessie Ventura? Sorry - watching that... person... causes your IQ to plummet. I can't afford the loss.
I disagree. His show does a lot of research and then he goes out to see whatever it is and interviews the people there.
Have you ever heard of these family prison facilities? What are they and why are they a secret?
And then Ventura did another episode where he is trying to find out what infragard is. It's a weird offshoot of the FBI. People spying on their neighbors and co-workers. The spokesman said it's to prevent terrorism, but that's a crock. Both men Jesse talked to got red in the face trying to answer his questions. They were getting visibly nervous. Why? Because they were hiding something.
Do you know anything about infragard? I know this is a British forum mostly, but I wonder if you know anything about this.
Kathy C
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Robert Oswald:
(p.58)
…After these preliminary reports had been assembled, theywere sent to the chief psychiatrist at Youth House, Dr. Renatus Hartogs, whostudied them and then interviewed Lee. Some of Dr. Hartogs’ comments have beenwidely quoted in newspapers and magazines, making it seem that he considerd Leepotentially dangerous when he was thirteen years old. In his book about Lee andJack Ruby, The Two Assassins, published in 1965, Dr. Hartogs says that herealized at once that Lee was “choked with silent rage.
Dr. Hartogs wrote in 1953: “Lee has vivid fantasy life,turning around topics omnipotence and power, through which he tries tocompensate for his present shortcomings and frustrations. He did not enjoybeing together with other children and when we asked him whether he prefers thecompany of boys to that of girls, he answered – ‘I dislike everybody.’ Hisoccupational goal is to join the Army.”
If Dr. Hartogs considered Lee dangerous when he wrote hisreport, that feeling does not come through to me when I read thepsychoiatrist’s words…… ‘Strongly resistive and negativistic features were thusnoticed – but psychotic mental content was denied and no indication ofpsychotic mental changes was arrived at.’…. Actually the psychiatrist found him‘a youngster with superior mental endowment functioning presently on the brightnormal range of mental efficiency.’…. (p. 59)
For the few weeksleft in the school year, Lee seems to have been a model pupil….He even joined amodel airplane club….<br style="mso-special-character:line-break"><br style="mso-special-character:line-break">
That summer, I went to New York on leave to visit Mother,Lee, and John Pic’s family. In July, I completed my course at the AviationMetalsmith School in Millington, Tennessee, and was given a ten day leavebefore reporting to the Marine Base at Opa Locka, Florida, near Miami. I droveto New York with four or five other Marines on leave.
They let me off on the New Jersey side of the GeorgeWashington Bridge and I hailed a taxi to take me to the address mother hadgiven me – 825 East 179th Street in the Bronx.
It had been a full year since I had left Mother and Lee inFort Worth and we had a lot of catching up to do. They seemed really glad tosee me, and I was glad to be with them again. It promised to be a happyreunion.
Lee told me, right away, that the Bronx Zoo was just a blockor two away from the apartment and he wanted to show it to me. Lee always lovedanimals and he said he spent a lot of time at the zoo. On the first morning ofmy leave, he took me over as soon as the gates opened and we explored the zoofo rat least half the day. Then he wanted to show me Times Square area.
As we traveled downtown on the subway, Lee gave me adetailed explanation of the subway system and named a long list of place Ishould see. I could tell that he knew his way around the city and told him Iwould just let him plan the itinerary. He would be my guide.
Mother was working, at the time, in a women’s shop in theEmpire State Building, on the street floor. When we came out of the subway atTimes Square, Lee headed straight for the Empire State Building. We went in tosee Mother for a few minutes, then took the elevator to the top of the buildingwhere Lee guided my over-al view of his city. He began to map my tour, fromWall Street to the Museum of Natural History….
Before I had time to wonder very much, my leave was over andI had to head for Florida. When Lee took me to the bus station I told him howmuch I had enjoyed the sight-seeing and thanked him for showing me around. Heseemed to me a normal, healthy, happy thirteen-year-old boy who was enjoyinghimself.
During the summer Mother looked around for anotherapartment, so Lee could make a fresh start in a new school in the fall. On September14, 1953, ten days before his parole was to end, Lee entered the eighth gradeat P.S. 44 on Columbus Avenue at 76th Street…
“….Mother and Leewere back in New Orleans. They arrived January 10 and went directly to AuntLillian Murret’s house at 757 French Street. Within days Lee was registered inthe eighth grade at Beauregard Junior High School. Here, he felt no need toplay hooky. In New York, meanwhile, the court dismissed Lee’s case. (p. 66)
Soon after their return to New Orleans, Mother and Lee movedto an apartment on St. Mary’s Street,... (that) belonged to Myrtle Evans, whohad known Mother since girlhood and had once visited us in Texas. The Evanslived in one of the four apartments in the building, so they saw Lee every day.Mr. Evans said that Lee was often rude to Mother...Mrs. Evans seemed to thinkthat Mother spoiled him by hopping up immediately and going to take care ofhim.
In the spring of 1955, Mother had a quarrel with Mrs. Evansand moved again, this time to an apartment on Exchange Place in the FrenchQuarter....
People who knew Lee at this time – his schoolmates,relatives and neighbors – remember him as a quiet, solitary boy who read a lot,visited museums and the public library, wandered along the waterfront lookingat foreign ships, and bicycled alone in City Pak on Saturdays. While Mrs. Evansrecalled his rudeness to Mother, others were impressed with hispoliteness...Several classmates recalled Lee’s characteristically erectposture… Another schoolmate, Frederick O’Sullivan, said that he asked Lee tojoin the Civil Air Patrol because he admired Lee’s military carriage andthought he would look good in uniform.
Aunt Lillian said that Lee had a girl friend at school andused to talk to her on the telephone a lot…Lee’s friend Edward Voebel said Leewas shy about girls…No one ever saw Lee pick a fight, but anyone who picked onhis was in for a real scrap. Lee believed in self-defense, as John and I did.All three of us always made it a policy never to start a fight – but never to runaway from one, either… Another schoolmate, Frederick O’Sullivan, spoke to Leeabout joining the Civil Air Patrol and included Voebel in the invitation. Theboys went out to New Orleans International Airport together to see what the CAPunit was doing. At that time, the leader of the unit may have been an EasternAirlines pilot named David Ferrie. O’Sullivan remembered the leader as “CaptainFerrie.” Voebel said he thought Captain Ferrie was in charge.
Lee bought a CAP uniform and attended several meetings, thenlost interest. O’Sullivan said he stopped coming to meetings after a fewweeks….
Looking back to 1954, trying to find out as much as possibleabout what happened to Lee that year – what influenced his thinking – I can’thelp but speculating. It is only a guess, but in view of later developmentsinvolving David Ferrie in 1967 and his dramatic death, I can’t help wonderingif it might have been Ferrie who introduced Lee to Communist ideas.
I realize that I have nothing solid on which to base such speculation,except the timing. In 1954, Lee joined a Civil Air Patrol group, which may ormay not have been led by David Ferrie. In 1954, Lee began borrowing books onMarxism from the public library. Was it just a coincidence?
In September 1955, Lee started the tenth grade at WarrenEaston High School. He used to go to Aunt Lillian’s for dinner every Friday, soshe got to know him about as well as anyone did at that time. She said he likedseafood and he knew that she always cooked fish on Fridays.
She also recalled that Lee was interested in baseball thatyear, but lost interest when he didn’t become a star player….didn’t like to siton the bench…
On October 7, 1955, Lee dropped out of school and tried tojoin the Marines, just after his sixteenth birthday, October 18….but theauthorities told him to wait another year.
In November he went to work as a messenger and office boy for a shippingcompany, Gerald F. Tujaque, Inc. He only made about $130 a month, but it musthave seemed like a lot of money to him, since it was his first full-time job.Mother said he was generous with his money….
After he left Trujaque’s, Lee took another job for a veryshort while, then went to work as a messenger for Pfister Dental Laboratory onDauphine Street. There he met Palmer McBride, another messenger, who said thatLee suggested to him that the two of them join the Communist Part “to takeadvantage of the social functions.”….
Lee’s interest in Communism was also remembered by WilliamE. Wulf, who was president of the New Orleans Amateur Astronomy Association inthe spring of 1956 when Lee attended some meetings with Palmer McBride.
Wulf said that Lee “came out with a statement that he waslooking for a Communist cell in town to join but he couldn’t find any. He was alittle dismayed at this, and he said that he couldn’t find any that would showany interest in him as a Communist.”
As soon as school was out in New Orleans, Mother and Leemoved to Fort Worth. In September Lee enrolled once more in the tenth grade –this time at Arlington Heights High School….Lee turned seventeen and was readyto enlist in the Marine Corps…He said he thought he would be able to finish hiseducation in the service….So Lee enlisted. On the morning of October 24 heboarded a bus to travel the thirty miles to Dallas, to take his physical examand be sworn in. Then he flew to San Diego.
(p. 79)
It reads like Harvey and Lee. I can't believe you've fallen for Robert's version. I don't even believe Oswald (shot by Ruby) and Robert were brothers. If Robert is so righteous why doesn't he submit his own DNA to be compared to Oswald's daughters? And I wonder what the 2 girls have to say about their "Uncle Robert"?
Robert Oswald is full of it in my opinion.
Kathy C
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REPORT CARD ON “PLANES AND PASSENGERS” THREAD
In regular type, I repeat my assertion of facts and conclusions from first page. In block letters I write the results so far on this thread of these issues. Comments and corrections are welcome:
Bureau of Transportation Statistics records show that only two of the supposedly hijacked flights actually took off: United 175 and United 93.
RESULT: NOT CHALLENGED
The other two flights, American 11 and American 77, not only did not take off but WERE NOT EVEN SCHEDULED TO FLY ON 9/11.
RESULT: DISCUSSION OF PLANES BEING TRACKED BUT NO SOURCES CITED
None of the crash sites - the World Trade Center, the Pentagon or Shanksville PA - had debris that matched with any of the aircraft that supposedly crashed there.
RESULT: DISCUSSION THAT FEDERAL AUTHORITIES ONLY FOCUS ON PLANE PARTS THAT FACTORED INTO CRASH
Eyewitnesses and newspaper accounts mentioned a sighting of approximately 200 passengers at the Cleveland airport after all of the supposedly hijacked planes "crashed."
RESULT: OPINION THAT WOODY BOX ARTICLES ONLY MENTIONED ONE PLANE WHICH I DISAGREE ABOUT
There is no evidence of any passengers being seen or videotaped in any of the airports they supposedly flew out of.
RESULT: OPINION THAT VIDEOTAPES WERE ONLY AVAILABLE AT PORTLAND MAINE AIRPORT AND DULLES; PORTLAND VIDEO DOES NOT PROVE ATTA FLEW OUT OF BOSTON; DULLES VIDEO LACKS TIME STAMP
There is no evidence of any boarding passes for any of the passengers.
RESULT: NO DISCUSSION
Only an FBI report mentions the sale of tickets to passengers, but I have seen no evidence of the authenticity of any tickets or credit card receipts.
RESULT: NO DISCUSSION
There are passenger lists for the airplanes supposedly hijacked, but none can be authenticated and the lists frequently conflict with one another.
RESULT: DISCUSSION THAT MANIFESTS ARE BEST EVIDENCE OF PASSENGERS, BUT NO SOURCE CITED
My theory: United 175 and United 93 flew out of Boston and Newark, respectively. United 175 did NOT go to the WTC and United 93 did NOT go to Shanksville. Instead, United 175 took the passengers assigned to American 11 and went to Cleveland Hopkins Airport. United 93 flew to a Pennsylvania location. Neither crashed nor was shot down. American 77 never flew. "False blips" were placed on FAA screens to distract those watching and other planes may have been used as decoys. The passengers landed safely and the lists show mostly false names for the passengers.
RESULT: “FALSE BLIPS” CHALLENGED. SOURCE MICHAEL RUPPERT DID NOT ATTRIBUTE HIS ASSERTION THAT BLIPS WERE ON SCREEN DURING EVENTS OF 9/11.
ALSO, I PLAN TO READ WHO THEY WERE BY DR. SHALER, WHICH PURPORTS TO DISCUSS THE IDENTIFICATION OF VICTIMS AT WTC AREA.
I tend to agree with Dean and Prof. Fetzer about 9-11. I believe a missile flew into the first WTC building. An airplane did hit the second building, but it was some kind of military or cargo plane with no windows.
I think a missile hit Shanksville. I remember them saying the passengers had "vaporized." The Pentagon, too, was hit by a missile in my opinion. (Rumsfeld even said so -- youtube.com.)
I believe it's possible that these people are alive. Last night on Conspiracy Theory, Jesse Ventura was shown "Residential" facilities for families. These places are all over America. They are behind 2 rows of barbed wire. An official from one such place said it wasn't a prison. Then what are they for?
Could it be possible that some of the residents are from the "hijacked" planes of 9/11? I believe it was an inside job and that the factions behind it want desperately to keep this secret. So short of murder, they keep these people in barbed wire "residences"? Jesse Ventura thinks we're close to martial law. He was shown acres of piled high plastic coffins. Who are they for?
Kathy C
(whatpricefame.blogspot.com)
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What can I say Duncan? To respect the rules of this forum in terms of talking about deliberate lies, there is not a single statement you just made that I can talk about, including your imaginary "fist" in the Jeffries sequence or your pretense that you were being humorous when you agreed that I was a "disinfo agent".
I have no doubt whatsoever that you would also agree with anyone accusing me of anything, from shoplifting to pedophilia. What I really would like to understand, is what is driving you to do this, and please don't drive us into hysterical laughter by claiming it is your fanatical quest for the truth
I agree with Bob. I think Kennedy was stung with a bullet that whizzed by him and was really checking if he'd been hit. Of course it could be glass from the windshield that stung him. Wasn't it the undertaker who said he had minute pieces of glass on his face? I may not be correct here but it looks almost like his forehead is a little bloody. But of course the head shot took away any proof that there was a shot at the turn onto Elm.
Kathy C
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I was shocked on learning that Ted Sorenson died. My brother had a stroke in 1998 and he has never been the same. Sorenson was a bit older than I thought. But I think he was the best speech writer in history. I can't picture him as the head of the CIA. You know why? They'd kill him.
Kathy C
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Peter, Myra & Mark
The issue of misspelled names is a huge one. But it's not always insurmountable. One example: the names of the witness I found appears once in the 26 volumes. In trying to track this person down, it became obvious that no-one has such a surname. On a hunch, I added a particular letter and immediately found him. Others have also been found despite their names not appearing anywhere in the records with the right spelling.
Assuming a misspelling can also be a trap. One example: There was an FBI report issued after the assassination detailing a report sent to USIA by a "Bernard Weisman" accusing Chinese Communists. I immediately thought that it had to be Bernard Weissman of Black Border ad fame - especially since his name is incorrectly spelled with one "s" in some documents. It took a few years, but I finally found a government record which showed that the USIA did in fact employ a "Bernard Weisman". Two different spellings, and now I knew it was also two different people.
The Hosey/Jose argument had merit... but only up until James confirmed there really was an employee named Hosey (McCoy). Just to confuse things further... the White Pages lists no "Hosey McCoy"... but there is a listing for a Hosery McCoy in Alabama. Is this another misspelling... or just a case of cruel parents
This is probably far-fetched. "Jose" is a common name. I see we're dealing with people changing the way their names are spelled, etc. But I can't get this one out of my thoughts. Jose Perdomo, who was the guard the night John Lennon was killed. He was also known as San Genis (or similar). I know he survived the Bay of Pigs, but did he have a part in President Kennedy's death?
Kathy C
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Covert Action Information Bulletin began publishing in 1978, and currently issues a well-produced quarterly of about 70 pages with no advertising. Some themes include CIA in academia, the new world order, CIA in Eastern Europe, George Bush, domestic surveillance, CIA and drugs, AIDS, the religious right, and the Nazi-Vatican-CIA nexus. Most articles contain plenty of footnotes. Most names from almost every issue through 1992 (Number 42) are in NameBase; since Number 43 the magazine changed its name to Covert Action Quarterly (CAQ) and the indexing in NameBase has been more selective.
.............
Thank you for mentioning them.
Kathy C
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In reading this over, Irv had to know these people. He considered himself a real journalist. That he remained quiet all his life... Was he protecting the rest of his family? Karyn's death overwhelmed him and nearly destroyed him. He must have been mostly sure the mob didn't kill his daughter.
Everything you've told me points to Chicago as a reference point to the Kennedy Assassination. I just want to thank you for confirming my beliefs that Chicago was behind Ruby and they needed a shock crime.
For the record, Karyn was a very unhappy girl. That she wasn't known well in Hollywood made her think she was disappointing her parents, who had such hopes for her. And her mother especially, who nagged her to keep her weight down. Karyn was big-boned, like her father. People with big bones aren't fat, but they probably weigh more than other people of the same height. Essee, her mother, started her on diet pills -- amphetamines. Karyn eventually graduated to methamphetamines, suffered hallucinations and did many odd things.
When you have so much plastic surgery -- she had a nose job, her ears fixed, her chin straightened and she couldn't keep the weight off -- where do you derive self-worth in a town like Hollywood where everything was appearances? There were many pretty girls there, rivals. I think she should have packed up and went home. If I was her father, I'd steer her towards journalism. The hell with her mother. The mother was living through her vicariously because she wanted to be a dancer and her father wouldn't allow it.
That's my take.
Kathy C
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I believe Duncan is correct. It looks just like VP Johnson. Kennedy and Jackie were in shadow too in this photo, as was the driver of the limo who stopped and turned around to look at Kennedy.
There's that other photo, taken from the right front of Johnson with sunglasses on. First of all, it doesn't even look like Johnson. It looks more like Jack Ruby. In Duncan's photo, to me, Johnson doesn't look like he has sunglasses on.
Kathy C
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She introduces [Oswald] as a "good man" and a "patriot." He helped her get a job, he revealed his secret life as a government agent concerned about protecting President Kennedy and consoled her over the turmoil in her life - a bad marriage, a new city to live in and an unknown future.
How could Oswald protect the President when according to Jim Fetzer he was on the second floor? He didn't know the motorcade was passing by? Why would you stay indoors instead of looking at the President and Jackie? Was he waiting for a phone call?
Kathy C
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Karyn Kupcinet's hyoid bone was broken and that finding was indicative of homicide and not untimely, solitary death.
That discovery and Penn Jone's linking of the prescient, Oxnard telephone call seem to me to have obscured the more intriguing associations of the JFK and Oswald murders, with Irv Kupcinet.
The story about the men who met with George Senator in Ruby's apartment in the evening after Ruby shot Oswald, and the subsequent deaths of those men, and the deaths of Dorothy Kilgallen, followed two days later by the death of her friend, Florence Pritchard Smith, are odd and interesting events, too...but, compared to all that Kupcinet seemed to be in the center of, I think that they are all dead end, distractions. Deeper investigations of those deaths offer low probability of solving the core crimes; the murders of JFK and Oswald.
That is the point I wanted to make with this thread. Ironically, Penn Jones's "Forgive My Grief", journalistic slant seems to have resulted in insulating serious inquiry of Irv Kupcinet, who he knew, the involvement of the people he knew, what Irv knew or suspected about their involvement, and his public reaction to what he knew, and his circumstances at the center of it all.
Was Karyn's death also a distraction, which I believe? But was it also a message to Irv? No one before has come up with these things, these names, these people. Do you consider her death of low probability in solving the core murders -- JFK and Oswald?
Kathy C
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That is the point I wanted to make with this thread. Ironically, Penn Jones's "Forgive My Grief", journalistic slant seems to have resulted in insulating serious inquiry of Irv Kupcinet, who he knew, the involvement of the people he knew, what Irv knew or suspected about their involvement, and his public reaction to what he knew, and his circumstances at the center of it all.
If you accept that Henry Crown, himself, seemed to believe his General Dynamics might lose the TFX contract, he had a motive for "regime change" in Washington. His lawyer, Albert Jenner, should never have been appointed as a WC investigator. The record shows that Tom Clark and Dean Acheson thought the appointment of Jenner was a good idea.
Drew Pearson's Diaries inform us that James Ragen "told Tom Clark that Henry Crown "ran the Chicago mob", but that didn't stop Tom Clark from picking Crown's son as Clark's law clerk, or objecting to Jenner on the WC. Crown's son, John, left Clark's Supreme Court office in 1957. Clark only appointed two clerks each year. In 1959, Jenner hired Crown's son. Clark had to have an awareness of every detail in this paragraph. I think Irv Kupcinet had a similar awareness. Irv and Essie spent part of every evening for more than 20 years, by 1964, in Ernie Byfield's and Patrick Hoy's Pump Room restaurant.
They both had to know everything I've posted in this thread. I found all of it by patiently looking online, after wondering why I had never heard of Obama's richest early sponsor, Lester Crown. Lester was even married to Renee Schine, RFK enemy, G. David Schine's sister. The Schine's, Ruby's roommate and Vincent Alo's soldier, Joe Cataldo, all came from the upstate NY town of Gloversville, population, 15,0000.
"The last column Drew Pearson distributed before the assassination said the Henry Crown was lobbying key members of congress in reaction to concern that the TFX contract would be re-bid. The year before, General Dynamics had the largest one year loss of any corporation in US history. Crown owned 20 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock. TFX was the largest military contract award in history. On the afternoon of 22 November, Don Reynolds was telling his story to republican members of the McClellan senate committee investigating TFX, Bobby Baker, and LBJ.
Newspaper reports on 15, December, 1963 stated that the McClellan investigation had ceased. It did not resume until 1969.
Except for rare articles like this, and the writing of PD Scott and George Michael Evica, scant attention has been given to the research of all of these curious details, and it looked to me that Chicago newspaper columnist and TV talk show host, Irv Kupcinet, had to have more knowledge about them, than anyone else, but he reacted by keeping silent for nearly 30 years, and then by vigorously attacking Oliver Stone and pushing the WC Report's "findings."
http://articles.sfgate.com/1996-11-18/business/17787252_1_jfk-s-assassination-construction-firm-federal-contractsON ECONOMICS: -- How Kennedy Assassination Affected Some Stock Prices
November 18, 1996|By JONATHAN MARSHALL
One of the first questions any murder investigator asks is cui bono -- who benefits. ...
...A postscript for assassination buffs: No individual stood to lose more from the TFX scandal than Chicago investor Henry Crown, who owned 20 percent of General Dynamics. His personal attorney, Albert Jenner, became a senior staff attorney on the Warren Commission, in charge of investigating the possibility of a conspiracy.
In later years, Jenner also represented Chicago labor racketeer Allen Dorfman. Dorfman's stepfather Paul, a leading figure in the Chicago mob, ran the Waste Handlers Union in Chicago in 1939 with Jack Ruby, Lee Harvey Oswald's future killer....
Consider, too, that the assassination of JFk could have amounted to no more than a lucky and timely break for both Henry Crown and LBJ, but that does not mean that either of them or their associates, or those actually behind the assassination did not quickly see a need to silence Oswald, and enlist the cooperation of Crown and Hoy and their acquaintances to select and dispatch Ruby, and then work to install Albert Jenner on the WC "team".
Drew Pearson. Valachi Story Recalls Death Of Chicagoan,Tuscaloosa News - Oct 26, 1963
...Some of the rulers of the underworld had be come supposedly respected businessmen and politicians whose names were house hold words in Chicago. Some of them, it was stated, had reformed. Yet they still controlled the mob.
The name Crown sounded familiar to me. Henry Crown and his son Lester were owners of Royal Crown Soda. I was a cola afficianado in the '60's, FWIW. Pepsi was the best. Second Coca Cola. And then there was Royal Crown Cola, which didn't live up to the other two. There was Dr. Pepper. And there was Tab, a 1-calorie cola -- horrible.
Regarding this company, they've made most of their money overseas.
Henry Crown died a billionaire from all the business interests he had acquired, which included Hilton Hotels. Irv Kupcinet had to have known him. He knew a lot of businessmen. He and Essee were a distance from Chicago at an opening of a new Sara Lee plant when they got the news that their daughter was found dead. It was all over the TV, etc. They might have been the last ones to know.
Kathy C
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Karyn Kupcinet's hyoid bone was broken and that finding was indicative of homicide and not untimely, solitary death.
That discovery and Penn Jone's linking of the prescient, Oxnard telephone call seem to me to have obscured the more intriguing associations of the JFK and Oswald murders, with Irv Kupcinet.
The story about the men who met with George Senator in Ruby's apartment in the evening after Ruby shot Oswald, and the subsequent deaths of those men, and the deaths of Dorothy Kilgallen, followed two days later by the death of her friend, Florence Pritchard Smith, are odd and interesting events, too...but, compared to all that Kupcinet seemed to be in the center of, I think that they are all dead end, distractions. Deeper investigations of those deaths offer low probability of solving the core crimes; the murders of JFK and Oswald.
That is the point I wanted to make with this thread. Ironically, Penn Jones's "Forgive My Grief", journalistic slant seems to have resulted in insulating serious inquiry of Irv Kupcinet, who he knew, the involvement of the people he knew, what Irv knew or suspected about their involvement, and his public reaction to what he knew, and his circumstances at the center of it all.
If you accept that Henry Crown, himself, seemed to believe his General Dynamics might lose the TFX contract, he had a motive for "regime change" in Washington. His lawyer, Albert Jenner, should never have been appointed as a WC investigator. The record shows that Tom Clark and Dean Acheson thought the appointment of Jenner was a good idea.
Drew Pearson's Diaries inform us that James Ragen told Tom Clark that Henry Crown "ran the Chicago mob", but that didn't stop Tom Clark from picking Crown's son as Clark's law clerk, or objecting to Jenner on the WC. Crown's son, John, left Clark's Supreme Court office in 1957. Clark only appointed two clerks each year. In 1959, Jenner hired Crown's son. Clark had to have an awareness of every detail in this paragraph. I think Irv Kupcinet had a similar awareness. Irv and Essie spent part of every evening for more than 20 years, by 1964, in Ernie Byfield's and Patrick Hoy's Pump Room restaurant.
They both had to know everything I've posted in this thread. I found all of it by patiently looking online, after wondering why I had never heard of Obama's richest early sponsor, Lester Crown. Lester was even married to Renee Schine, RFK enemy, G. David Schine's sister. The Schine's, Ruby's roommate and Vincent Alo's soldier, Joe Cataldo, all came from the upstate NY town of Gloversville, population, 15,0000.
Clark Clifford manipulated the reluctant mother of Byfield to lease her Middleburg, VA estate to JFK and Jackie. Byfield's mother Gladys Tartiere was close to NY Sen. Kenneth Keating, political enemy of JFK and RFK.
The evening after the assassination, Clifford's obit states that he met with LBJ at the White House, so long into the evening that Lady Bird interrupted to ask if LBJ was ever going to eat dinner.
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/cclifford.htm...Johnson was hardly in office 24 hours when he called for Clifford. Faced with the sudden and enormous task of running the country after Kennedy's assassination, Johnson talked with Clifford for two hours, then three, then four. It was late in the evening, Clifford remembered, when Lady Bird Johnson entered the Oval Office and reminded her husband, "Just because you're president now doesn't mean you don't have to eat dinner." ...
When Arthur Goldberg had to resign from the Supreme Court, Clark Clifford, counsel to three Democratic presidents, said:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=bks%3A1&q=%22clark+clifford%22+supreme+court+albert+jenner&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=The Supreme Court under Earl Warren, 1953-1969 - Page 282
Michal R. Belknap, Earl Warren - 2005 - 406 pages -
Clifford suggested that the President nominate a nonpolitical Republican lawyer, such as Albert Jenner of Chicago,..
The last column Drew Pearson distributed before the assassination said the Henry Crown was lobbying key members of congress in reaction to concern that the TFX contract would be re-bid. The year before, General Dynamics had the largest one year loss of any corporation in US history. Crown owned 20 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock. TFX was the largest military contract award in history. On the afternoon of 22 November, Don Reynolds was telling his story to republican members of the McClellan senate committee investigating TFX, Bobby Baker, and LBJ.
Newspaper reports on 15, December, 1963 stated that the McClellan investigation had ceased. It did not resume until 1969.
Except for rare articles like this, and the writing of PD Scott and George Michael Evica, scant attention has been given to the research of all of these curious details, and it looked to me that Chicago newspaper columnists and TV talk show host, Irv Kupcinet, had to have more knowledge about them, than anyone else, but he reacted by keeping silent for nearly 30 years, and then by vigorously attacking Oliver Stone and pushing the WC Report's "findings."
http://articles.sfgate.com/1996-11-18/business/17787252_1_jfk-s-assassination-construction-firm-federal-contractsON ECONOMICS: -- How Kennedy Assassination Affected Some Stock Prices
November 18, 1996|By JONATHAN MARSHALL
One of the first questions any murder investigator asks is cui bono -- who benefits. ...
...A postscript for assassination buffs: No individual stood to lose more from the TFX scandal than Chicago investor Henry Crown, who owned 20 percent of General Dynamics. His personal attorney, Albert Jenner, became a senior staff attorney on the Warren Commission, in charge of investigating the possibility of a conspiracy.
In later years, Jenner also represented Chicago labor racketeer Allen Dorfman. Dorfman's stepfather Paul, a leading figure in the Chicago mob, ran the Waste Handlers Union in Chicago in 1939 with Jack Ruby, Lee Harvey Oswald's future killer....
Consider, too, that the assassination of JFk could have amounted to no more than a lucky and timely break for both Henry Crown and LBJ, but that does not mean that either of them or their associates, or those actually behind the assassination did not quickly see a need to silence Oswald, and enlist the cooperation of Crown and Hoy and their acquaintances to select and dispatch Ruby, and then work to install Albert Jenner on the WC "team".
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Ccdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1963%2Ccd_max%3A1963&q=house+hold+words+in+Chicago.++yet+they+still&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=m1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=Drew Pearson .Valachi Story Recalls Death Of Chicagoan .
Tuscaloosa News - Oct 26, 1963
...Some of the rulers of the underworld had be come supposedly respected businessmen and politicians whose names were house hold words in Chicago. Some of them, it was stated, had reformed. Yet they still controlled the mob.
First to lend insult to injury Karyn K's hyoid bone may not have been broken and/or the coroner himself might have broken it. Three years after Karyn's autopsy, this man was brought up on charges. Two husbands were fighting for their lives in court. One lawyer got his client's wife's body exhumed. Kade or Wade (whatever his name was) had declared the woman's death to be a homicide and said she was strangled and her head practically decapitated. The exhumation proved this wasn't near the truth at all. Then they exhumed a second woman, whom the coroner said was strangled to death. She died from natural causes. The main coroner said he didn't have the money to exhume another woman whom Kade had also said died by strangulation.
Kade said Karyn Kupcinet was strangled and her hyoid bone broken. After that autopsy, this coroner, who was often drunk, said, "Well, at least I didn't break the hyoid bone on that one. That one -- Karyn Kupcinet? Even though Karyn was buried in Chicago, this news must have gotten back to the Kupcinets. And if it wasn't true, what were the implications? She died of a drug overdose, either on purpose or accidentally?
Her apartment was messed up: cigarettes on the floor, clothes falling from drawers, closets open (showing a mink stole), the bed clothes torn from the bed revealing 2 twin beds shoved together.
Could another kind of killer have caused this mess to make it look like a homicide/robbery? The only thing missing were some 100 methamphetamine pills (Desoxyn) from her "neat and orderly bathroom." The cruelest thing: the killer placed her face down on the sofa, which brings lividity to the face. She wasn't found for 3 days. She was 22 years old.
It's just that Kup must have been a great actor if he knew such things as you've described and his daughter winds up dead and he thinks the downstairs neighbor did it? Could Irv had been so self-assured he didn't think the mob did it? Paul Dorfman was in Palm Springs that weekend, as was Karyn and Irv found Dorfman there and told him about Ruby killing Oswald.
Kathy C
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Sorry Kathleen...I think your PM box is full...it wouldn't accept new messages. My point was that intentionally or unintentionally, the writing of Penn Jones distracted from this "stuff".:
I think Oliver Stone hit a nerve, as Kupcinet's reaction showed. I think Kupcinet knew almost everything I've observed....that Albert Jenner was helping to shield the Dorfmans at least since 1953 when he represented their first major union insurance client, Frank Darling in a Senate investigation hearing...that Patrick Hoy had no related business qualifications to be hired by Henry Crown to run Material Service or be a General Dynamics VP...that Hoy's boss and Kupcinet's host in the Pump Room, Ernest Byfield Jr. had a complex background...White Russian wife with a sister married to Rionda Braga's first cousin...Kupcinet was there in 1943 when Byfield was asked to be best man in William HG Fitzgerald's wedding...Kupcinet knew that the JFK family was living in Byfield's mother Glady Tartiere's glen Ora estate....he knew that his newspaper column partners, the Colitzes, had been close to Jack Ruby and owned the Clover bar where Ruby and Virginia Hill's mentor, Joseph Epstein hung out...Kupcinet had to suspect Albert Jenner was on the WC to cover up, not to investigate, and that Hoy and his Boss Henry Crown might have been involved in sending Ruby to kill Oswald, especially after the Torbitt documents said Crown was involved. Kupcinet had to kinow that James Ragen had named Crown, Hilton, and Annenberg as heads of the mob. He had to think it was suspicious that Warren's daughter Virginia had been so close to Conrad Hilton...yet there Kupcinet was....promoting the Warren Commission in the early 1990's...over and over....AND we don't even know what Kupcinet learned from Korshak!
Kup knew everyone in Chicago and those that visited Chicago, waiting for another plane. I'm sure he'd know these people. Where did you get all this info and put it together? Still, it's not hitting me. Could he really believe his daughter was murdered by someone with these connections and swore to himself never to say anything against the Warren Commission? And too bad if Andrew Prine was the police suspect. Irv became incensed when asked if his daughter could have been killed so he would keep the lid on whatever he knew about the assassination and apparently other people here besides Ruby. And he'd become almost violent if someone suggested she probably committed suicide.
Please explain it to me again. Like try to do so in 2 sentences so I know for sure what you're telling me. I know the CTs loved Penn Jones, Jr. Was this one story he was lying about?
Kathy C
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Of course some people believe that the death of Karyn Kupcinet was related to the JFK case. I discovered this post on a conspiracy-related website called thecloakofdarkness.blogspot.com (it is not clear who is behind the blog or who posted this but there is now also a web-site dedicated to Kupcinet:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Karyn_Kupcinet/
The website states there is a book being written on her life, a collaboration between her niece Karu and a writer named Paul Fecteau. They have a website: www.research@paulfecteau.com
Re Mr. Fecteau:
http://www.washburn.edu/faculty/pfecteau/biography.htm
John might want to ask him if he or Kari think her death was in fact related to the JFK case.
****************************************************************************
Karyn Kupcinet, Stage Name "Tammy Windsor"
Last night I was watching a Hawaiian Eye episode. I recognized Karyn Kupcinet and I thought she was not listed in the credits. I've had this episode for a few years. At the end, I noticed a number of credits. But why not her? I looked at the credits and found "The Clerk," which would describe the role Karyn had in this show. How I knew it was her was I'm looking at this girl and I start to see the mouth, the nose, the cheekbones of -- Irv Kupcinet! "The Clerk" was played by Tammy Windsor. Well this was a pseudonym I didn't know about. She is listed in IMDB and TV-Tome. But in most of the shows, I think she was known as Karyn Kupcinet. Not an easy name. There was a gossip columnist in Hollywood who kept begging her to change her name as people couldn't pronounce it. (Except in Chicago) People would pronounce the name as Ka-reen Kup-cin-ay. The name "Karyn" was another selection of hers. She was born as Roberta Lynn Kupcinet. They were having a hard time with her name. The parents were calling her Bobbe Lynn. Finally, Karyn was at some children's party and she came over to her parents and said, "This cookie is from your cookie." And so she was called Cookie. I don't know how old she was when her name first changed. I recall reading an old copy of Who's Who in the Midwest. Irv was listed, as was Essee, his wife, Jerry, his son and Cookie (deceased).
Biographers all thought she only appeared in one film, Jerry Lewis' The Ladies Man. I found out she appeared in the 1960 version of the film The Little Shop of Horrors. I think she plays "The Teenager," unless I'm thinking of one of her TV shows. Jack Nicholson is in the movie and I think it's a cult film. They're selling it on Amazon.com for $0.01 and shipping is $2.98. Just make sure which version you're getting. There was a Broadway version, etc.
I just came across this post, which is mine. Karyn Kupcinet and Tammy Windsor are 2 different people. Karyn was on a Hawaiian Eye episode but wasn't credited, which is surprising as she had a bigger role than Tammy Windsor who played The Clerk. IMDB made the same mistake I did. I've been trying to resolve it since I found out I'd made an error.
Kathy C
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http://thecloakofdarkness.blogspot.com/
Sunday, December 11, 2005
Karyn Kupcinet and the Bobby Baker Scandal
The Kennedy Assassination for Lay People #3
John Simkin, a JFK assassination researcher, is trying to connect the murder of Karyn Kupcinet, actress daughter of late columnist Irv Kupcinet, to the Bobby Baker scandal.
Bobby Baker started out as a page in the Senate, working for Lyndon Johnson. He was so loyal to LBJ, people often referred to him as "Little Lyndon." When Johnson became Vice President, Bobby Baker stayed on with him as his secretary. Bobby Baker considered himself a wheeler dealer and was often around the Senate making deals. Baker got involved with Giancana and Meyer Lansky, building casinos in the Dominican Republic, which would serve as the new "Cuba" for the Mob. Baker then got involved in the Quorum Club, secretly owned by LBJ. Baker would procure women for big shots in Washington DC. J. Edgar Hoover later characterized some of these women as spies and had them deported.
LBJ had been receiving kickbacks from business contacts through Bobby Baker. The largest was the Fort Worth TFX contract to build a fighter plane for $7 million. Word circulated that Johnson, Vice President of the United States at the time, was going to be indicted. President Kennedy, it was rumored, was going to drop Lyndon from the ticket in 1964. Perhaps he would choose Senator George Smathers, who would become President Kennedy's "best friend," yet would say detrimental things about Kennedy's lifestyle after the Assassination, hurting Kennedy's memory. Don Reynolds, a man who put together Johnson's will and knew a lot about LBJ's finances, was testifying that he had seen a $100,000 payoff to Johnson over the TFX contract. Reynolds' testimony came to a halt that day when word came that President Kennedy had been assassinated.
LBJ began a smear campaign against Don Reynolds. Reynold's testimony would not be made public. In 1967 Bobby Baker was found guilty of 7 counts of theft, fraud and income tax evasion. The charges against him included Baker accepting huge campaign donations intended to buy influence with various Senators but which he kept for himself.
People in high financial and military places believed Kennedy was a communist. "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country." This must have sounded like a Communist slogan to some. After the wealthy oil barons killed President Kennedy -- and Johnson knew it was going to happen and would benefit from it -- the country was not the same, nor ever will be. President Kennedy was assassinated for oil and big business; and so Lyndon Johnson could avoid indictment as President over a traumatized country which had just lost a charismatic President.
Back to Bobby Baker and Karyn Kupcinet. Baker, in his prime, had a house in SW Washington, DC. He held parties there in which he procured women for wealthy men. Nancy Carole Tyler, Bobby Baker's girlfriend, attended these parties frequently. Because she shared the house with Tyler, Mary Jo Kopechne was also, allegedly, at these functions. Mary Jo, who would be killed years later at a party at Chappaquiddick, had been in the same class as Karyn Kupcinet at Wellesley. Simkin is trying to place Karyn Kupcinet into one or more of these parties, claiming she learned something there that caused a hit man to murder her 5 days after the Assassination.
I had a hard time putting Karyn in Wash. D.C., except one time when she was eleven years old. Then I remembered Advise and Consent. Irv Kupcinet and Otto Preminger were good friends. Irv had one line in Preminger's film Advise and Consent (1962), filmed in Washington DC. Could Karyn have travelled to DC with her father so he could say his one line in the Preminger movie? Karyn, at least before she met Prine, was very social and had many friends. She wasn't a loner, though she suffered deep depressions. Would Karyn go to one of those parties?
She was certainly an out-of-towner. She probably wouldn't know ahead of time the nature of these parties. How much could Washington swing? How close was she to Kopechne? Karyn attended Wellesley, in the same class as Mary Jo, for only one semester. They knew her as Roberta Kupcinet there. In later years, obsessed with her weight, she told a reporter that she had gained so much poundage during those collegiate months that she was the original 5'x5' girl.
After leaving college, Karyn went on to New York. She auditioned for the Actor's Studio and Lee Strasberg accepted her, no easy feat. She was up for a part in a play in NY but didn't get the role and returned rejected to Chicago to her parent's house. Their decades-long maid said Karyn's mother, Essee, yelled at Karyn for having gained weight. Karyn took amphetamines and her mother looked the other way.
Another coincidence: When Karyn filmed The Ladies Man (1961) with Jerry Lewis, Jerry was having an affair with Judith Campbell (Exner). She was on the set everyday and like Karyn, she came from Chicago. I know at one time the two of them lived in walking distance to each other. Had they become friends?
Simkin also says that Irv Kupcinet and Jack Ruby were close friends. They were not, though both men had things in common during their youth in Chicago. Kupcinet was acquainted with Ruby and called up a mutual friend, Paul Dorfman (Mob connected), asking him questions about Ruby. This call came so quick, Dorfman didn't even know Oswald had been shot. "'Sparky' would never do that," he said. As Irv dug into the Chicago angle of the Assassination in the week to come, his daughter lay dead in her L.A. apartment.
She had been dead 3 days before anyone found her. The autopsy said a very strong left-handded man had strangled her from behind. He broke her hyoid bone. She was found face down on her sofa. In my opinion, shortly after 2 male friends left her apartment, she was murdered by a hit man who killed her with a karate chop to the neck. A reporter, Jim Koethe, who had been in a meeting in Ruby's apartment the night Ruby shot Oswald, was murdered a few months later with a karate chop to the neck. Is this a coincidence, or a Ruby connection to Kupcinet's murder and Koethe's? Her male friends would be the suspects. Also her ex-boyfriend. And the guy downstairs from her. All these men were polygraphed and all their test results came out "inconclusive." The guys either had bad alibis or no alibis at all. Walter Winchell, down on his luck, told Irv Kupcinet that he was going to solve the murder and win a Pulitzer Prize doing so. The police felt he hampered the investigation. Winchell wrote up his report. All I know is he mentioned "The Syndicate." Is that the same as the Mafia? Like Sam Giancana? Could Winchell have been onto something?
I don't know if Karyn Kupcinet ever attended Bobby Baker's parties. But it is strange that Nancy Carole Tyler, who lived in Baker's house, Mary Jo Kopechne and Karyn Kupcinet all met early tragic ends after the Assassination. And Judith Campbell Exner feared for her life from Kennedy's death onward.
I still believe that Karyn had no foreknowledge of the Assassination and was killed to send Irv Kupcinet, her father, a warning to cease investigating the Assassination. I'm told, which I have not verified yet, that Irv never wrote about the Assassination again until the movie JFK came out. Irv maintained that Oswald shot President Kennedy... The early script of Stone's movie had a Karyn Kupcinet character. One is allowed to say anything about someone who has died. And this infuriated Kupcinet. He denounced the movie. Oliver Stone chose to use the Rose Cheramie character instead to illustrate foreknowledge and conspiracy. To use Karyn Kupcinet would only be speculation. The L.A. Sheriff's Dept has not solved the case. She went from L.A. to Palm Springs the day Kennedy was shot. She cannot be placed in Oxnard, CA that day, where an upset woman tried to make a person-to-person call to Chicago, got onto the operator's line and said, "They're going to kill the President" 20 minutes before he was shot. This was reported to the FBI and the story appeared in many newspapers around the US the next day. The real woman supposedly made the call from a law practice in Oxnard, and her name was revealed to Robert Kennedy on the day he was shot.
My bibliography for the above info includes: John Simkins' forum on the Kennedy Assassiation; The Men Who Killed Kennedy, a series of documentaries made by Nigel Turner; Farewell America; LBJ's mistress, Madeleine Duncan Brown, as interviewed by Nigel Turner; Chicago Magazine , "The Lost World of Kup," June 2004; The True Hollywood Story on Karyn Kupcinet; King of Comedy by Shawn Levy; John Austin in private letter; The Ruby Cover-Up by Seth Kantor; Kup: A Man, an Era, a City by Irv Kupcinet; Crime Wave by James Ellroy -- "The Glamour Jungle," GQ, December 1998; Winchell: Gossip, Power and the Culture of Celebrity by Neal Gabler; Judith Campbell Exner - television interview before she died where she said, "I was in love with that man. What more does that family want from me?"; the IMDb - Internet Movie Database; Irv Kupcinet's columns re Oliver Stone's JFK; McAdam's JFK Assassination site; and my own conjecture.
It is nice to know that people are using the Forum for research. However, I am surprised that the "Cloak of Darkness" did not look at my web pages on these people. He would have discovered the sources for my views on the deaths of these three women. He says I claimed that Irv Kupcinet was a close friend of Jack Ruby. Did I? What I did say was that Irv Kupcinet got to know Jack Ruby in Chicago in the 1940s. According to W. Penn Jones he kept in contact with Ruby (he supplied Kupcinet with information about the Mafia, etc.). Penn Jones claimed that Kupcinet discovered that Ruby was involved in a plot to assassinate Kennedy. Jones argues that Irv passed this information on to his daughter Karyn.
In his book, Forgive My Grief, Jones suggests that Karyn might have supplied her father with information about the assassination. He argues that "a few days before the assassination, Karyn Kupcinet, 23, was trying to place a long distance telephone call from the Los Angeles area. According to reports, the long distance operator heard Miss Kupcinet scream into the telephone that President Kennedy was going to be killed."
Karyn Kupcinet's body was discovered on 30th November, 1963. Police estimated that she had been dead for two days. The New York Times reported that she had been strangled. Her actor boyfriend, Andrew Prine was the main suspect but he was never charged with the murder and the crime remains unsolved.
Some researchers have claimed that there was a link between the death of Kupcinet and the assassination of Kennedy. It was argued that the conspirators were trying to frighten off Kupcinet from telling what he knew. Kupcinet rejected this idea. He wrote in the Chicago Sun-Times (9th November, 1992): "The NBC Today Show on Friday carried a list of people who died violently in 1963 shortly after the death of President John F. Kennedy and may have had some link to the assassination. The first name on the list was Karyn Kupcinet, my daughter. That is an atrocious outrage. She did die violently in a Hollywood murder case still unsolved. That same list was published in a book years ago with no justification or verification. The book left the impression that some on the list may have been killed to silence them because of knowledge of the assassination. Nothing could be further from the truth in my daughter's case."
Was he telling the truth or was he protecting the lives of other members of the family?
It has to be remembered that another journalist claimed that his daughter's murder had nothing to do with the assassination of JFK. According to Lee Israel (Kilgallen: An Intimate Biography) James Kilgallen, a famous investigative journalist, was quick to announce that his daughter's death had nothing to do with the JFK case.
http://thecloakofdarkness.blogspot.com/
Sunday, December 11, 2005
Karyn Kupcinet and the Bobby Baker Scandal
The Kennedy Assassination for Lay People #3
John Simkin, a JFK assassination researcher, is trying to connect the murder of Karyn Kupcinet, actress daughter of late columnist Irv Kupcinet, to the Bobby Baker scandal.
Bobby Baker started out as a page in the Senate, working for Lyndon Johnson. He was so loyal to LBJ, people often referred to him as "Little Lyndon." When Johnson became Vice President, Bobby Baker stayed on with him as his secretary. Bobby Baker considered himself a wheeler dealer and was often around the Senate making deals. Baker got involved with Giancana and Meyer Lansky, building casinos in the Dominican Republic, which would serve as the new "Cuba" for the Mob. Baker then got involved in the Quorum Club, secretly owned by LBJ. Baker would procure women for big shots in Washington DC. J. Edgar Hoover later characterized some of these women as spies and had them deported.
LBJ had been receiving kickbacks from business contacts through Bobby Baker. The largest was the Fort Worth TFX contract to build a fighter plane for $7 million. Word circulated that Johnson, Vice President of the United States at the time, was going to be indicted. President Kennedy, it was rumored, was going to drop Lyndon from the ticket in 1964. Perhaps he would choose Senator George Smathers, who would become President Kennedy's "best friend," yet would say detrimental things about Kennedy's lifestyle after the Assassination, hurting Kennedy's memory. Don Reynolds, a man who put together Johnson's will and knew a lot about LBJ's finances, was testifying that he had seen a $100,000 payoff to Johnson over the TFX contract. Reynolds' testimony came to a halt that day when word came that President Kennedy had been assassinated.
LBJ began a smear campaign against Don Reynolds. Reynold's testimony would not be made public. In 1967 Bobby Baker was found guilty of 7 counts of theft, fraud and income tax evasion. The charges against him included Baker accepting huge campaign donations intended to buy influence with various Senators but which he kept for himself.
People in high financial and military places believed Kennedy was a communist. "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country." This must have sounded like a Communist slogan to some. After the wealthy oil barons killed President Kennedy -- and Johnson knew it was going to happen and would benefit from it -- the country was not the same, nor ever will be. President Kennedy was assassinated for oil and big business; and so Lyndon Johnson could avoid indictment as President over a traumatized country which had just lost a charismatic President.
Back to Bobby Baker and Karyn Kupcinet. Baker, in his prime, had a house in SW Washington, DC. He held parties there in which he procured women for wealthy men. Nancy Carole Tyler, Bobby Baker's girlfriend, attended these parties frequently. Because she shared the house with Tyler, Mary Jo Kopechne was also, allegedly, at these functions. Mary Jo, who would be killed years later at a party at Chappaquiddick, had been in the same class as Karyn Kupcinet at Wellesley. Simkin is trying to place Karyn Kupcinet into one or more of these parties, claiming she learned something there that caused a hit man to murder her 5 days after the Assassination.
I had a hard time putting Karyn in Wash. D.C., except one time when she was eleven years old. Then I remembered Advise and Consent. Irv Kupcinet and Otto Preminger were good friends. Irv had one line in Preminger's film Advise and Consent (1962), filmed in Washington DC. Could Karyn have travelled to DC with her father so he could say his one line in the Preminger movie? Karyn, at least before she met Prine, was very social and had many friends. She wasn't a loner, though she suffered deep depressions. Would Karyn go to one of those parties?
She was certainly an out-of-towner. She probably wouldn't know ahead of time the nature of these parties. How much could Washington swing? How close was she to Kopechne? Karyn attended Wellesley, in the same class as Mary Jo, for only one semester. They knew her as Roberta Kupcinet there. In later years, obsessed with her weight, she told a reporter that she had gained so much poundage during those collegiate months that she was the original 5'x5' girl.
After leaving college, Karyn went on to New York. She auditioned for the Actor's Studio and Lee Strasberg accepted her, no easy feat. She was up for a part in a play in NY but didn't get the role and returned rejected to Chicago to her parent's house. Their decades-long maid said Karyn's mother, Essee, yelled at Karyn for having gained weight. Karyn took amphetamines and her mother looked the other way.
Another coincidence: When Karyn filmed The Ladies Man (1961) with Jerry Lewis, Jerry was having an affair with Judith Campbell (Exner). She was on the set everyday and like Karyn, she came from Chicago. I know at one time the two of them lived in walking distance to each other. Had they become friends?
Simkin also says that Irv Kupcinet and Jack Ruby were close friends. They were not, though both men had things in common during their youth in Chicago. Kupcinet was acquainted with Ruby and called up a mutual friend, Paul Dorfman (Mob connected), asking him questions about Ruby. This call came so quick, Dorfman didn't even know Oswald had been shot. "'Sparky' would never do that," he said. As Irv dug into the Chicago angle of the Assassination in the week to come, his daughter lay dead in her L.A. apartment.
She had been dead 3 days before anyone found her. The autopsy said a very strong left-handded man had strangled her from behind. He broke her hyoid bone. She was found face down on her sofa. In my opinion, shortly after 2 male friends left her apartment, she was murdered by a hit man who killed her with a karate chop to the neck. A reporter, Jim Koethe, who had been in a meeting in Ruby's apartment the night Ruby shot Oswald, was murdered a few months later with a karate chop to the neck. Is this a coincidence, or a Ruby connection to Kupcinet's murder and Koethe's? Her male friends would be the suspects. Also her ex-boyfriend. And the guy downstairs from her. All these men were polygraphed and all their test results came out "inconclusive." The guys either had bad alibis or no alibis at all. Walter Winchell, down on his luck, told Irv Kupcinet that he was going to solve the murder and win a Pulitzer Prize doing so. The police felt he hampered the investigation. Winchell wrote up his report. All I know is he mentioned "The Syndicate." Is that the same as the Mafia? Like Sam Giancana? Could Winchell have been onto something?
I don't know if Karyn Kupcinet ever attended Bobby Baker's parties. But it is strange that Nancy Carole Tyler, who lived in Baker's house, Mary Jo Kopechne and Karyn Kupcinet all met early tragic ends after the Assassination. And Judith Campbell Exner feared for her life from Kennedy's death onward.
I still believe that Karyn had no foreknowledge of the Assassination and was killed to send Irv Kupcinet, her father, a warning to cease investigating the Assassination. I'm told, which I have not verified yet, that Irv never wrote about the Assassination again until the movie JFK came out. Irv maintained that Oswald shot President Kennedy... The early script of Stone's movie had a Karyn Kupcinet character. One is allowed to say anything about someone who has died. And this infuriated Kupcinet. He denounced the movie. Oliver Stone chose to use the Rose Cheramie character instead to illustrate foreknowledge and conspiracy. To use Karyn Kupcinet would only be speculation. The L.A. Sheriff's Dept has not solved the case. She went from L.A. to Palm Springs the day Kennedy was shot. She cannot be placed in Oxnard, CA that day, where an upset woman tried to make a person-to-person call to Chicago, got onto the operator's line and said, "They're going to kill the President" 20 minutes before he was shot. This was reported to the FBI and the story appeared in many newspapers around the US the next day. The real woman supposedly made the call from a law practice in Oxnard, and her name was revealed to Robert Kennedy on the day he was shot.
My bibliography for the above info includes: John Simkins' forum on the Kennedy Assassiation; The Men Who Killed Kennedy, a series of documentaries made by Nigel Turner; Farewell America; LBJ's mistress, Madeleine Duncan Brown, as interviewed by Nigel Turner; Chicago Magazine , "The Lost World of Kup," June 2004; The True Hollywood Story on Karyn Kupcinet; King of Comedy by Shawn Levy; John Austin in private letter; The Ruby Cover-Up by Seth Kantor; Kup: A Man, an Era, a City by Irv Kupcinet; Crime Wave by James Ellroy -- "The Glamour Jungle," GQ, December 1998; Winchell: Gossip, Power and the Culture of Celebrity by Neal Gabler; Judith Campbell Exner - television interview before she died where she said, "I was in love with that man. What more does that family want from me?"; the IMDb - Internet Movie Database; Irv Kupcinet's columns re Oliver Stone's JFK; McAdam's JFK Assassination site; and my own conjecture.
It is nice to know that people are using the Forum for research. However, I am surprised that the "Cloak of Darkness" did not look at my web pages on these people. He would have discovered the sources for my views on the deaths of these three women. He says I claimed that Irv Kupcinet was a close friend of Jack Ruby. Did I? What I did say was that Irv Kupcinet got to know Jack Ruby in Chicago in the 1940s. According to W. Penn Jones he kept in contact with Ruby (he supplied Kupcinet with information about the Mafia, etc.). Penn Jones claimed that Kupcinet discovered that Ruby was involved in a plot to assassinate Kennedy. Jones argues that Irv passed this information on to his daughter Karyn.
In his book, Forgive My Grief, Jones suggests that Karyn might have supplied her father with information about the assassination. He argues that "a few days before the assassination, Karyn Kupcinet, 23, was trying to place a long distance telephone call from the Los Angeles area. According to reports, the long distance operator heard Miss Kupcinet scream into the telephone that President Kennedy was going to be killed."
Karyn Kupcinet's body was discovered on 30th November, 1963. Police estimated that she had been dead for two days. The New York Times reported that she had been strangled. Her actor boyfriend, Andrew Prine was the main suspect but he was never charged with the murder and the crime remains unsolved.
Some researchers have claimed that there was a link between the death of Kupcinet and the assassination of Kennedy. It was argued that the conspirators were trying to frighten off Kupcinet from telling what he knew. Kupcinet rejected this idea. He wrote in the Chicago Sun-Times (9th November, 1992): "The NBC Today Show on Friday carried a list of people who died violently in 1963 shortly after the death of President John F. Kennedy and may have had some link to the assassination. The first name on the list was Karyn Kupcinet, my daughter. That is an atrocious outrage. She did die violently in a Hollywood murder case still unsolved. That same list was published in a book years ago with no justification or verification. The book left the impression that some on the list may have been killed to silence them because of knowledge of the assassination. Nothing could be further from the truth in my daughter's case."
Was he telling the truth or was he protecting the lives of other members of the family?
It has to be remembered that another journalist claimed that his daughter's murder had nothing to do with the assassination of JFK. According to Lee Israel (Kilgallen: An Intimate Biography) James Kilgallen, a famous investigative journalist, was quick to announce that his daughter's death had nothing to do with the JFK case.
I am the author of the above blog about Karyn Kupcinet. The one thing I found wrong in it is that Karyn Kupcinet and Mary Jo Kopechne went to Wellesley. Karyn stayed in school for a semester in a college inside the city of Wellesley. Karyn and her mother would let people think she attended Wellesley. Mary Jo went to and graduated from Caldwell College for Women in New Jersey. Mary Jo and Karyn never met and never knew each other. Karyn never attended those parties.
Kathy C
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http://thecloakofdarkness.blogspot.com/
Sunday, December 11, 2005
Karyn Kupcinet and the Bobby Baker Scandal
The Kennedy Assassination for Lay People #3
John Simkin, a JFK assassination researcher, is trying to connect the murder of Karyn Kupcinet, actress daughter of late columnist Irv Kupcinet, to the Bobby Baker scandal.
Bobby Baker started out as a page in the Senate, working for Lyndon Johnson. He was so loyal to LBJ, people often referred to him as "Little Lyndon." When Johnson became Vice President, Bobby Baker stayed on with him as his secretary. Bobby Baker considered himself a wheeler dealer and was often around the Senate making deals. Baker got involved with Giancana and Meyer Lansky, building casinos in the Dominican Republic, which would serve as the new "Cuba" for the Mob. Baker then got involved in the Quorum Club, secretly owned by LBJ. Baker would procure women for big shots in Washington DC. J. Edgar Hoover later characterized some of these women as spies and had them deported.
LBJ had been receiving kickbacks from business contacts through Bobby Baker. The largest was the Fort Worth TFX contract to build a fighter plane for $7 million. Word circulated that Johnson, Vice President of the United States at the time, was going to be indicted. President Kennedy, it was rumored, was going to drop Lyndon from the ticket in 1964. Perhaps he would choose Senator George Smathers, who would become President Kennedy's "best friend," yet would say detrimental things about Kennedy's lifestyle after the Assassination, hurting Kennedy's memory. Don Reynolds, a man who put together Johnson's will and knew a lot about LBJ's finances, was testifying that he had seen a $100,000 payoff to Johnson over the TFX contract. Reynolds' testimony came to a halt that day when word came that President Kennedy had been assassinated.
LBJ began a smear campaign against Don Reynolds. Reynold's testimony would not be made public. In 1967 Bobby Baker was found guilty of 7 counts of theft, fraud and income tax evasion. The charges against him included Baker accepting huge campaign donations intended to buy influence with various Senators but which he kept for himself.
People in high financial and military places believed Kennedy was a communist. "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country." This must have sounded like a Communist slogan to some. After the wealthy oil barons killed President Kennedy -- and Johnson knew it was going to happen and would benefit from it -- the country was not the same, nor ever will be. President Kennedy was assassinated for oil and big business; and so Lyndon Johnson could avoid indictment as President over a traumatized country which had just lost a charismatic President.
Back to Bobby Baker and Karyn Kupcinet. Baker, in his prime, had a house in SW Washington, DC. He held parties there in which he procured women for wealthy men. Nancy Carole Tyler, Bobby Baker's girlfriend, attended these parties frequently. Because she shared the house with Tyler, Mary Jo Kopechne was also, allegedly, at these functions. Mary Jo, who would be killed years later at a party at Chappaquiddick, had been in the same class as Karyn Kupcinet at Wellesley. Simkin is trying to place Karyn Kupcinet into one or more of these parties, claiming she learned something there that caused a hit man to murder her 5 days after the Assassination.
I had a hard time putting Karyn in Wash. D.C., except one time when she was eleven years old. Then I remembered Advise and Consent. Irv Kupcinet and Otto Preminger were good friends. Irv had one line in Preminger's film Advise and Consent (1962), filmed in Washington DC. Could Karyn have travelled to DC with her father so he could say his one line in the Preminger movie? Karyn, at least before she met Prine, was very social and had many friends. She wasn't a loner, though she suffered deep depressions. Would Karyn go to one of those parties?
She was certainly an out-of-towner. She probably wouldn't know ahead of time the nature of these parties. How much could Washington swing? How close was she to Kopechne? Karyn attended Wellesley, in the same class as Mary Jo, for only one semester. They knew her as Roberta Kupcinet there. In later years, obsessed with her weight, she told a reporter that she had gained so much poundage during those collegiate months that she was the original 5'x5' girl.
After leaving college, Karyn went on to New York. She auditioned for the Actor's Studio and Lee Strasberg accepted her, no easy feat. She was up for a part in a play in NY but didn't get the role and returned rejected to Chicago to her parent's house. Their decades-long maid said Karyn's mother, Essee, yelled at Karyn for having gained weight. Karyn took amphetamines and her mother looked the other way.
Another coincidence: When Karyn filmed The Ladies Man (1961) with Jerry Lewis, Jerry was having an affair with Judith Campbell (Exner). She was on the set everyday and like Karyn, she came from Chicago. I know at one time the two of them lived in walking distance to each other. Had they become friends?
Simkin also says that Irv Kupcinet and Jack Ruby were close friends. They were not, though both men had things in common during their youth in Chicago. Kupcinet was acquainted with Ruby and called up a mutual friend, Paul Dorfman (Mob connected), asking him questions about Ruby. This call came so quick, Dorfman didn't even know Oswald had been shot. "'Sparky' would never do that," he said. As Irv dug into the Chicago angle of the Assassination in the week to come, his daughter lay dead in her L.A. apartment.
She had been dead 3 days before anyone found her. The autopsy said a very strong left-handded man had strangled her from behind. He broke her hyoid bone. She was found face down on her sofa. In my opinion, shortly after 2 male friends left her apartment, she was murdered by a hit man who killed her with a karate chop to the neck. A reporter, Jim Koethe, who had been in a meeting in Ruby's apartment the night Ruby shot Oswald, was murdered a few months later with a karate chop to the neck. Is this a coincidence, or a Ruby connection to Kupcinet's murder and Koethe's? Her male friends would be the suspects. Also her ex-boyfriend. And the guy downstairs from her. All these men were polygraphed and all their test results came out "inconclusive." The guys either had bad alibis or no alibis at all. Walter Winchell, down on his luck, told Irv Kupcinet that he was going to solve the murder and win a Pulitzer Prize doing so. The police felt he hampered the investigation. Winchell wrote up his report. All I know is he mentioned "The Syndicate." Is that the same as the Mafia? Like Sam Giancana? Could Winchell have been onto something?
I don't know if Karyn Kupcinet ever attended Bobby Baker's parties. But it is strange that Nancy Carole Tyler, who lived in Baker's house, Mary Jo Kopechne and Karyn Kupcinet all met early tragic ends after the Assassination. And Judith Campbell Exner feared for her life from Kennedy's death onward.
I still believe that Karyn had no foreknowledge of the Assassination and was killed to send Irv Kupcinet, her father, a warning to cease investigating the Assassination. I'm told, which I have not verified yet, that Irv never wrote about the Assassination again until the movie JFK came out. Irv maintained that Oswald shot President Kennedy... The early script of Stone's movie had a Karyn Kupcinet character. One is allowed to say anything about someone who has died. And this infuriated Kupcinet. He denounced the movie. Oliver Stone chose to use the Rose Cheramie character instead to illustrate foreknowledge and conspiracy. To use Karyn Kupcinet would only be speculation. The L.A. Sheriff's Dept has not solved the case. She went from L.A. to Palm Springs the day Kennedy was shot. She cannot be placed in Oxnard, CA that day, where an upset woman tried to make a person-to-person call to Chicago, got onto the operator's line and said, "They're going to kill the President" 20 minutes before he was shot. This was reported to the FBI and the story appeared in many newspapers around the US the next day. The real woman supposedly made the call from a law practice in Oxnard, and her name was revealed to Robert Kennedy on the day he was shot.
My bibliography for the above info includes: John Simkins' forum on the Kennedy Assassiation; The Men Who Killed Kennedy, a series of documentaries made by Nigel Turner; Farewell America; LBJ's mistress, Madeleine Duncan Brown, as interviewed by Nigel Turner; Chicago Magazine , "The Lost World of Kup," June 2004; The True Hollywood Story on Karyn Kupcinet; King of Comedy by Shawn Levy; John Austin in private letter; The Ruby Cover-Up by Seth Kantor; Kup: A Man, an Era, a City by Irv Kupcinet; Crime Wave by James Ellroy -- "The Glamour Jungle," GQ, December 1998; Winchell: Gossip, Power and the Culture of Celebrity by Neal Gabler; Judith Campbell Exner - television interview before she died where she said, "I was in love with that man. What more does that family want from me?"; the IMDb - Internet Movie Database; Irv Kupcinet's columns re Oliver Stone's JFK; McAdam's JFK Assassination site; and my own conjecture.
It is nice to know that people are using the Forum for research. However, I am surprised that the "Cloak of Darkness" did not look at my web pages on these people. He would have discovered the sources for my views on the deaths of these three women. He says I claimed that Irv Kupcinet was a close friend of Jack Ruby. Did I? What I did say was that Irv Kupcinet got to know Jack Ruby in Chicago in the 1940s. According to W. Penn Jones he kept in contact with Ruby (he supplied Kupcinet with information about the Mafia, etc.). Penn Jones claimed that Kupcinet discovered that Ruby was involved in a plot to assassinate Kennedy. Jones argues that Irv passed this information on to his daughter Karyn.
In his book, Forgive My Grief, Jones suggests that Karyn might have supplied her father with information about the assassination. He argues that "a few days before the assassination, Karyn Kupcinet, 23, was trying to place a long distance telephone call from the Los Angeles area. According to reports, the long distance operator heard Miss Kupcinet scream into the telephone that President Kennedy was going to be killed."
Karyn Kupcinet's body was discovered on 30th November, 1963. Police estimated that she had been dead for two days. The New York Times reported that she had been strangled. Her actor boyfriend, Andrew Prine was the main suspect but he was never charged with the murder and the crime remains unsolved.
Some researchers have claimed that there was a link between the death of Kupcinet and the assassination of Kennedy. It was argued that the conspirators were trying to frighten off Kupcinet from telling what he knew. Kupcinet rejected this idea. He wrote in the Chicago Sun-Times (9th November, 1992): "The NBC Today Show on Friday carried a list of people who died violently in 1963 shortly after the death of President John F. Kennedy and may have had some link to the assassination. The first name on the list was Karyn Kupcinet, my daughter. That is an atrocious outrage. She did die violently in a Hollywood murder case still unsolved. That same list was published in a book years ago with no justification or verification. The book left the impression that some on the list may have been killed to silence them because of knowledge of the assassination. Nothing could be further from the truth in my daughter's case."
Was he telling the truth or was he protecting the lives of other members of the family?
It has to be remembered that another journalist claimed that his daughter's murder had nothing to do with the assassination of JFK. According to Lee Israel (Kilgallen: An Intimate Biography) James Kilgallen, a famous investigative journalist, was quick to announce that his daughter's death had nothing to do with the JFK case.
I am the author of the above blog about Karyn Kupcinet. The one thing I found wrong in it is that Karyn Kupcinet and Mary Jo Kopechne went to Wellesley. Karyn stayed in school for a semester in a college inside the city of Wellesley. Karyn and her mother would let people think she attended Wellesley. Mary Jo went to and graduated from Caldwell College for Women in New Jersey. Mary Jo and Karyn never met and never knew each other. Karyn never attended those parties.
Kathy C
November 22nd
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
I couldn't agree more. Up north I used to listen to Larry King when he had a radio interview show. Every Nov.22 his entire show would be about the Kennedy Assassination. He really was interested in it. Why the Bushes are going to be on I don't know. Maybe Larry King has no choice -- maybe CNN booked them. I hope he mentions President Kennedy to them.
I don't know if Geraldo is on or what time, but I'm tired of him protecting the assassins because as he said on his show Rivera Live on CNBC in 2001, "There was no conspiracy. Oswald killed Kennedy from behind and alone." Paraphrase. And it was apropos of nothing. He just came out and said it. The next week he announced he had a new job on Fox as Foreign Correspondent. This was right after 9/11.
Kathy C