David Butler

I think the Hammers will be back up next year...They have too much backing to not be able to support Big Sam and get back up straight away.... I'm happy we survived on the last day but next season will be a struggle down at the bottom again I fear !

I know it's from Fox News but I couldn't help being amused by this one - The Ministry of Truth on the horizon at last :-) If Bill Clinton had his way, there would be an Internet agency created by the U.S. government or United Nations to debunk malicious rumors that originate and spread online. "I think it would be a legitimate thing to do," Clinton told CNBC in an interview that aired Friday. He was interviewed alongside Mati Kochavi, a cybersecurity entrepreneur. But Clinton added that if such an agency were ever created, it would have to be "totally transparent" about where its funding came from and would have to be independent. "Let's just say the U.S. did it. It would have to be an independent federal agency that no president could countermand or anything else because people wouldn't think you were just censoring the news and giving a different falsehood out," he said. "That is, it would be like, I don't know, National Public Radio or BBC or something like that, except it would have to be really independent and they would not express opinions, and their mandate would be narrowly confined to identifying relevant factual errors," he said. Clinton said the agency would have to have citations so it could be checked in case it made a mistake. "Somebody needs to be doing it, and maybe it's a worthy expenditure of taxpayer money," he said. "But if it's a government agency in a traditional sense, it would have no credibility whatever, particularly with a lot of the people who are most active on the Internet." Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/14/clinton-muses-creating-internet-agency-combat-falsehoods/#ixzz1MqN6Hcfn

Get Bin Laden was authorised last week it would seem - Mr Obama said he had been briefed last August on a possible lead to Osama Bin Laden's whereabouts. It led to intelligence that the al-Qaeda leader was hiding in a compound deep within Pakistan. The president authorised an operation to "get Bin Laden" last week, he said, and on Sunday a small team of US forces undertook the operation. After a "firefight" Bin Laden was killed and his body taken by US forces, the president said. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13256676

Al-Qaeda founder and leader Osama Bin Laden is dead, according to US media reports citing officials. The US is in possession of Bin Laden's body, the reports say. President Barack Obama is due to make a statement shortly. Bin Laden is top of the US most wanted list. He is accused of being behind a number of atrocities, including the attacks on New York and Washington on 11 September 2001. The al-Qaeda leader was killed in a mansion outside Islamabad in an operation based on actionable US intelligence, CNN reported. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13256676

Thats a CGI animation isn't it ? I've not seen it before so I'm not sure where it comes from...Maybe a video game or something ?

It's Billy Nolan Lovelady in the shirt that he wore that day.....It's clearly not Oswald

Nearly a century ago, Britain was accused of masterminding a failed plot to kill Lenin and overthrow his fledgling Bolshevik regime. The British government dismissed the story as mere Soviet propaganda - but new evidence suggests it might be true. For decades what became known as the "Lockhart plot" has been etched in the annals of the Soviet archives, taught in schools and even illustrated in films. In early 1918, in the final months of World War I, Russia's new Bolshevik government was negotiating a peace deal with Germany and withdrawing its exhausted troops from the front. This did not please London. The move would enable Berlin - which had been fighting a war on two fronts - to reinforce its forces in the West. Determined to get the Russians back into the war on the Allied side, the British despatched a young man in his 30s to be London's representative in Moscow. His name was Robert Bruce Lockhart. Lockhart, a Scot, was a colourful character. Known for his love of wine, women and sports, he also prided himself on his alleged ability to read five books at the same time. At first, the well-read Lockhart seemed to be making progress on the issue but, in March that year, the Soviets signed the Brest-Litovsk peace treaty with Germany, so ending hope of them rejoining the war with the Allies. Lockhart, it seems, had no intention of giving up. Instead, the suggestion is, his attention was now turning to overthrowing the Bolshevik regime and replacing it with another government that would be willing to re-enter the war against Germany. Documents show that, in June, Lockhart asked London for money to fund various anti-Bolshevik organisations in Moscow. This letter, marked "urgent", was sent from the Foreign Office to the Treasury. It sums up the Foreign Secretary's attitude to the Moscow's representative's request: "Mr. Balfour is of the opinion that the moment has arrived when it has become necessary to take this action, and I am to request that you will move the Lords Committee to give the necessary sanction for the expenditure of such funds as Mr. Lockhart can collect for this purpose." Counter-revolution In late May, the British decided to send a small military force to Archangel in northern Russia. The official line was that the troops were going to prevent thousands of tonnes of British military equipment, supplied to the Russians, from falling into German hands. Timeline 1914 outbreak of World War I between the Allies (France, Russia, Great Britain) and the Central Powers (Germany, Austria-Hungary, Turkey) 1917 A popular revolution led by the Bolsheviks leads to the abdication of the tsar and the overthrow of his government 1918 WWI ends; Tsar Nicholas is killed; civil war breaks out in which Lenin's Red Army eventually defeats the White Russians (or anti-communists) who are aided by many foreign powers However, documents from the day suggest that plans were later drawn up for these 5,000 British troops to join forces with 20,000 crack Latvian troops who were guarding the Kremlin but could, it was thought, be turned against the Bolsheviks. In the summer of 1918, Lockhart sent a telegram to London following a meeting with a local opponent of the Bolsheviks called Savinkov. It read: "Savinkov's proposals for counter-revolution. Plan is how, on Allied intervention, Bolshevik barons will be murdered and military dictatorship formed." Underneath that telegram is a note bearing the signed initials of Lord Curzon, who was then a member of the British War Cabinet. It says: "Savinkoff's methods are drastic, though if successful probably effective, but we cannot say or do anything until intervention has been definitely decided upon." 'Ace of Spies' Meanwhile Lockhart had teamed up in Moscow with another highly colourful character. Sidney Reilly, a Russian who had earlier changed his name from Rosenbloom, was a flamboyant, high-rolling entrepreneur who had recently begun working for the British Secret Services. He became known as the Ace of Spies, made famous in books of derring-do, and was even credited as being the inspiration for Alexander Fleming's James Bond. But both were soon in for a shock. In the late summer of 1918, an attempt was made in Moscow to assassinate Lenin. He was shot twice from close range by a young Russian woman. The Bolshevik's secret police, the Cheka, arrested Bruce Lockhart a few hours later and he was taken to the Kremlin for questioning. Reilly escaped the Cheka's clutches on that occasion but was shot dead several years later after being lured back into Russia. According to Cheka records, Lockhart confessed to being part of a plot proposed by London to kill Lenin and overthrow the Bolshevik government. But in early October 1918, Britain's representative to Moscow was freed in an exchange for his Russian counterpart in London. 'Economical with the truth' In his best selling book, Memoirs of a British Agent published in the 1930s, Lockhart insisted that he had played no part either in attempts to kill Lenin or overthrow the Bolshevik government. Instead, he insisted that the maverick "Ace of Spies" Sidney Reilly was the man behind plans for a coup. Lockhart added that he had little to do with Reilly who some claimed was out of control. However, a letter written by Lockhart's son, Robin, has been discovered in archives in America. It suggests that his father was being rather economical with the truth: "If the question of my father's relationship with Reilly still exercises anyone's mind in the F.O., it is clear from his book Memoirs of a British Agent that once intervention in Russia had been decided on in 1918, he gave his active support to the counter-revolutionary movement with which, of course, Reilly was actively working. "My father has himself made it clear to me that he worked much more closely with Reilly than he had publicly indicated…" Whitehall 'pretence' The man who found that letter, Professor Robert Service, believes the only way to be sure of the truth would be to gain access to the rest of the files from the day. But, more than 90 years later, the British government continues to keep many of them secret. All, in Robert Service's view, to maintain the myth that Lockhart-style plots have not - nor ever would be - countenanced by London. "Britain today has a policy for its intelligence services that is openly averse to subverting foreign governments or assassinating foreign political leaders," he says. "My guess is that the thinking in Whitehall is that the pretence ought to be that this has always been the case. That the British have always been clean. "The British haven't always been clean. They have been as dirty as anyone else." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12785695

He is looking between Monty and the bag....I think perhaps at the reporter who is visible in the other photo and his notepad is still in the frame on this one who is presumably asking questions. As I think the bag is at an angle pointing towards the photographer are we talking about the end of the bag closest to the camera here ? I would say Day is perhaps a foot closer than Monty in this one...I might stretch to two foot if I was being generous :-) To me it seems obvious that the man's head is significantly larger than Montgomery's. and that he is therefore significantly closer to the camera than Montgomery. Not inches. Feet. It also seems clear he is leaning a bit to his right, and looking at something in the distance. This leads me to believe he is in front of the bag. In your analysis, he is looking between Monty and the bag, correct? Are there any clues you can identify that make you think as much?

I don't think Day is closer to the camera than the end of the bag but then the bag appears to be pointing at something like a 45 degree angle towards the camera lens. I would say he is about level with Montgomery's hand that is holding whatever it is that is keeping the bag upright....

Judging by the bodypainted on "shirts" Bill that photo isn't from a real women's beach football tournament :-) It was a gimmick topless women's football game arranged by a website during the men's football Euro 2008 tournament. Germany played an Austrian team on the banks of the Danube and Austria won 10-5 if anyone's interested :-) Haven't looked through the article yet but will do later.... David

I saw this on Twitter and thought forum members might be interested - Iran has threatened to boycott the London Olympics unless the organisers replace the official logo, which Tehran claims spells out the word "Zion". The logo, a jagged representation of the year 2012, has been said by its critics to resemble many things, from a swastika to a sexual act, but the Iranian government argues it represents a veiled pro-Israeli conspiracy. In a formal complaint to the International Olympic Committee, Tehran has called for the graphic to be replaced and its designers "confronted", warning that Iranian athletes might otherwise be ordered to stay away from the London Games. According to the state-backed Iranian Students News Agency, which is frequently used to convey official pronouncements, the letter says: "As internet documents have proved, using the word Zion in the logo of the 2012 Olympic Games is a disgracing action and against the Olympics' valuable mottos. "There is no doubt that negligence of the issue from your side may affect the presence of some countries in the Games, especially Iran which abides by commitment to the values and principles." The letter, from the country's national Olympic committee, leaves unclear what "internet documents" it is referring to. Amid the popular uproar that accompanied the unveiling of the logo in 2007, there were some claims, particularly on conspiracy-oriented websites, that its constituent shapes could be rearranged to make the world "Zion" and some animations were posted on YouTube showing how to do it. An IOC official confirmed that the Iranian letter had been received but said: "The London 2012 logo represents the figure 2012, nothing else." A spokesman for the London Olympic organising committee added: "It was launched in 2007 following testing and consultation. We are surprised that this complaint has been made now." http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/28/iran-london-olympics-logo-zion

The trial of six green campaigners has collapsed after an undercover policeman who had infiltrated their group offered to give evidence on their behalf. The six were charged with conspiring to shut down the Ratcliffe-on-Soar power station in Nottingham in 2009. The case was due to start on Monday, but was abandoned after Pc Mark Kennedy contacted the defence team to say he would be prepared to help them. The prosecution subsequently dropped their case. Mr Kennedy had been intimately involved in the green movement since 2000. He was known to those within it as Mark "Flash" Stone, having earned the nickname because he always seemed to have more money than the other activists. He lived a double life: as Mark Kennedy of the Metropolitan Police he had a wife and children; but as Mark Stone, green activist, he lived with an unsuspecting girlfriend on a narrow boat in Nottingham. He would disappear for extended periods, telling his girlfriend he had to visit his "brother" in the United States. In October 2010, Mr Kennedy was confronted by some of the activists after they found documents which revealed his true identity. He admitted he had been a Met Police officer and had infiltrated their organisations, before then disappearing. Danny Chivers, who was one of the six defendants in the failed case, said Mr Kennedy was not just an observer, but an agent provocateur. "We're not talking about someone sitting at the back of the meeting taking notes - he was in the thick of it." Speaking about the Ratcliffe-on-Soar protest, Mr Chivers said: "Mark Stone was involved in organising this for months - they could have stopped it at the start." Instead, Mr Chivers said the police officer helped recruit as many people as possible. He also drove a reconnaissance party to the power station in his van and then hired a truck for the main protest, Mr Chivers added. The activists' plan was to try to shut down the coal-fired power station for a few days as a protest against global warming. But in April 2009, when 114 people had gathered for a meeting at the Iona School in Nottingham, hundreds of police swooped on the building and arrested them all for "conspiracy to commit aggravated trespass". Eighteen were convicted late last year. Ratcliffe-on-Soar was one of many actions in Britain and across Europe which Mr Kennedy was involved in, including the protests against the G8 summit at Gleneagles in 2005 which helped give birth to the Climate Camp movement. "He was one of the key people setting up Gleneagles 2005," said Mr Chivers, who also claimed the undercover officer drove protesters there in his van. Activist websites are full of denunciations of Mr Kennedy by former close friends. There is some abuse, but most say they feel "violated", "betrayed" and "sickened". One writes: "He must be a deeply conflicted individual." When confronted, Mr Kennedy told the activists he left the police after the Nottingham arrests in 2009. It is unclear whether this is true, or where he is now, but on 5 January he contacted the activists' defence team to say he would be prepared to help their case. When the defence then asked the prosecution to disclose full details of Mr Kennedy's activities the prosecution dropped the case. The 18 protesters who were convicted last year are now expected to consider appealing against their convictions. The Met Police are refusing to comment officially on Mr Kennedy. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12148753

Seeing Doug Caddy mention Joseph P Farrell in a thread yesterday about the Federal Reserve reminded me that I saw yesterday that his new book is out soon - LBJ and the Conspiracy to Kill Kennedy: A Coalescence of Interests Best-selling, Oxford-educated investigative author Joseph P. Farrell takes on the Kennedy assassination and the involvement of Lyndon Baines Johnson and the Texas "machine” that he controlled. Farrell says that a coalescence of interests in the military industrial complex, the CIA, and Lyndon Baines Johnson's powerful and corrupt political machine in Texas led to the event culminating in the assassination. Without the help of the Dallas police chief and others of the Texas underworld, including Jack Ruby, the Kennedy assassination could not have taken place. Farrell analyzes the data as only he can, and comes to some astonishing conclusions. Topics include: Oswald, the FBI, and the CIA: Hoover's Concern of a Second Oswald; Oswald and the Anti-Castro Cubans; The Mafia; Hoover, Johnson, and the Mob; The FBI, the Secret Service, Hoover, and Johnson; The CIA and "Murder Incorporated”; Ruby's Bizarre Behavior; The French Connection and Permindex; Big Oil; The Military; Disturbing Datasets, Doppelgängers, Duplicates and Discrepancies; Two Caskets, Two (or was that Three?) Ambulances, One Body: The Case of David S. Lifton; Two (or is that Three?) Faces of Oswald; Too Many (or Was That Too Few?) Bullets; Too Many Films, with Too Many, or Too Few, Frames; The Dead Witnesses: Jack Zangretti, Maurice Brooks Gatlin, John Garret "Gary” Underhill, Guy F. Bannister, Jr., Mary Pinchot Meyer, Rose Cheramie, Dorothy Mae Killgallen, Congressman Hale Boggs; The Alchemy of the Assassination: Ritual Magic and Murder, Masonic Symbolism, and the Darkest Players in the Death of JFK; LBJ and the Planning of the Texas Trip; LBJ: A Study in Character, Connections, and Cabals; LBJ and the Aftermath: Accessory After the Fact; The Requirements of Coups D'État; more. LBJ certainly does seem to be flavour of the month at the moment....

As I understand it IPB (this forum software) does not allow anyone else to read PM's at all. The exception to that is if someone "reports" a PM they have received as abusive/spam (for example) then that message becomes visible to Administrators to check out the report. As always some bright spark has written a "mod" for IPB that would allow the reading of members PM's but it would need to be deliberately downloaded and installed for that to happen.... All forum software I have ever used does not allow the reading of PM's as standard configuration.

So please identify the "one tragic exception" who hacked the forum. And why. I am baffled. Thanks. Jack Jack, if I recall correctly, there were six original founders. There are only five names listed here. Thing is not all of us remember who the the Gang of Six were. The fact that Jack is in the darks shows how untransparent they are. I seem to recall that the other one was called Myra Bronstein but I could be misremembering !

I'm not a major contributor but I read the forum every day and run a women's football forum so know a bit about forum admin....Let me know if I can help as I would be happy to...

Is the figure that appears Zapruder walking back out of the pergola ?

I agree with Dean on this one..It's Billy Nolan Lovelady on the steps....Oswald never claimed to be outside the building but in the lunchroom at the time as far as I'm aware...

Thats Forrest Sorrels Ron

John, there isn't a Mac version of IE anymore. MS canned it years ago...Apple's browser is called Safari. I'm seeing the ad banner occasionally at the top of the page but not getting the sound on my Mac through Safari

Hi David. Thanks for your response. To be honest, one of the hardest part to uncover in Altgens was this odd shape above the steering wheel and Jackies right hand. Croft was such a huge help to find the solution. It was actually a bag, Lady 9 is carrying in the crook of her arm. Lady 9 is dressed in white and many parts of her a visible in Altgens. Even her elbows which i tinted in pink. But the crucial POI (point of interest) belongs to Lady 8. Anthony Marsh says it is her pocket we see in Altgens. That claim doesn't convince me. Can you see it? best to you Martin Hi Martin Thanks for the reply. I'm wondering if I am looking at the right thing that we are calling the spiral nebula ? What I thought was it (and could be confused for a pocket on the dress of a spectator behind) is definitely on the white dress of lady 9. I can't see anything of Lady 8 that could be far enough to the right (as we look) that could be part of the alleged hole in the windshield... Maybe I am looking at the wrong thing though ! David

If ? man is in Nix then he is just hidden behind man B because Nix is standing on the ground and Bell is high up on top of a pedestal well off to Nix's left

Hello Josiah I was the one who made earlier in this thread the claim Altgens7 damage fits Altgens6. I had a while ago a little discussion with Jerry on Duncan's forum about this issue and we both disagreed. Let me try to explain why i come to my conclusion from the beginning. I started month's ago a new Thread on Duncan's forum with the intention to colorize Altgens6 for a better understanding of this unaltered great photograph. At this time many parts of this image left it's secrets to me. It was a work in progress and every member was invited to join. The progress lasted a couple of month examining all the details with little unkown parts left in the end. Jerry, in the beginning of this work stated that the so called spiral nebula close to the mirror is just a pocket of a woman in the background. Jerry, i hope you don't mind i mentioned it here. As far as i know Anthony Marsh was the first who mentioned this. Well after a very nitpicking progress examining Altgens6 i'am not so sure we see just a pocket. But at first here my cross reference. Croft-Altgens6. Lady 8 is the one under inspection. I suddenly realized that the Point of interest we see in Altgens7 is actually in the same place as in Altgens6 cause i found no solution for this crucial part. What i did then was to build a 3D dummy of the windshield incl. the mirror. Important is: a.) the correct angle of the windshield b.) the correct size and shape of the mirror c.) the correct distance of the mirror in relationship to the windshield. Once this crucial parts are fitting, we will realize that the damage in Altgens7 is in the same location as in Altgens6. Please test it by your own if possible with photographs. It's just a question of perspective and can easely misunderstood. We have to keep in mind that Altgens7 is hiding parts of the evidence with the antenna. Another problem is the significant shape of the spiral nebula in Altgens6. We see the outer bright parts and the inner dark star shape which shows lines leading just in one direction: The center. How strange must a pocket look like to be appear that way? A star symbol pocket? I don't see it in Croft. Apart from that...the shape of JFK's head have to be further examined to make sure what it hides. Thats the next part on my tasklist. You see, there are many reasons to doubt the theory of the pocket in Altgens6 and the critique is well deserved. And the discussion of it has not ended. best Martin Hi Martin Not quite sure what to make of this yet but just to check if I am looking at the right thing the lady in question would be Lady 9 rather than Lady 8 wouldn't it ? Thanks David

I beleive that the paper bag appears in a photograph of items the DPD released to the FBI taken the night of the 22nd. Sorry, there is no such photograph. While the DPD took multiple photos of the gun on 11-22, there are no DPD pictures of the bag until they returned the bag on the 26th. I am 99% positive the bag was created by the DPD, or the FBI, with Lt. Day's knowledge. From Chapter 4d at patspeer.com: There is an even stranger circumstance. The only photo of the paper bag in the Dallas Police Archives is a photo in box 12 folder 7 file 1. The description for this photo in the DPD Archives reads "Photograph of the evidence sent to the FBI. Date unknown." The bag in this photo appears to be about 8 inches wide and could quite possibly be the bag in the FBI and Warren Commission photos. The bag appears to be discolored, however, which suggests that this is a photo of the bag after its return from the FBI Crime Laboratory, where it had been discolored by silver nitrate. Sure enough, this photo can also be found in the FBI files (62-109060 Sec EBF, Serial 1866, p73). Here, however, on the page just before, the back of the photo is presented, and bears the date 11-26-63. Should one find that unconvincing, one should know that this photo also makes an appearance in Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry's 1969 book JFK Assassination File. Here it is listed as "Evidence released to the FBI Laboratory for tests." No date is provided. Fortunately, however, Curry lists all the items in the photograph, and this tells us what we need to know. Item #5 is listed as "Textile fibers found on the left side of the butt plate of the recovered rifle." These fibers were officially undetected in Dallas, and only discovered during an examination in the FBI Crime Lab on 11-23. This proves that this photograph was taken after the return of the evidence to Dallas. More telling, Item #2 is "Oswald's right palm print found on a book carton which was part of the sniper's perch in the book depository." This palm print wasn't provided the FBI till the 26th. A close look at the piece of cardboard holding this palm print, moreover, reveals that it has the signature of Lt. J.C. Day along the bottom. Photos taken on the 25th of the sniper's nest, with this piece of cardboard re-attached to its box, reveal that Day had not yet signed the cardboard. This proves it then, several times over--the only photo of the paper bag in the Dallas Archives is a photo of evidence shipped out on the 26th. Should one still have doubts, however, one should consider the Warren Commission testimony of Lt. Day. When presenting this photo as exhibit CE 738, Day readily admitted he'd taken the photo on the 26th. The Warren Commission, in turn, entitled this exhibit "Photograph of property released by the Dallas Police Department to the FBI on November 26, 1963." So why did the Dallas crime scene investigators not only fail to photograph the paper bag when found on the scene in the school book depository, but at any time prior to Oswald's death? Something's undoubtedly wrong here. The mind-numbing level of this "wrongness" only gets stronger, however, when one reads the captions to the photos in Curry's book. Here, after confidently presenting evidence such as "the 6.5 Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, C2766, with a four power scope which was recovered from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository", and captioning the fibers in the evidence photo mentioned above as "Textile fibers found on the left side of the butt plate of the recovered rifle," Curry equivocates on the status of the bag in the photo. He writes "A paper bag probably constructed from wrapping paper and tape at the Texas School Book Depository...This is probably the same bag which was found on the sixth floor by investigators." Yes, you read that right. He says "probably." If Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry doubted that the bag returned from Washington was the bag found in the building, then why the heck shouldn't we? I'm looking into this but 62-109060 Sec EBF, Serial 1866, p73 does not show that photograph. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=73 The photocopy of the photo is on Page 72 and the text Pat refers to is on page 71

Nice spot with the dress Robin. The girl I think is an illusion from the car and also the "cops" lighter coloured trousers...I recall from another thread that he wasn't actually DPD but can't remember the exact details..