Ian Kingsbury

Undoubtedly !.

That's a rather odd looking arrangement on the back of the pickup

Far right

Black dog?.

There is a man in a dark suit appears at the end of the parapet

Wall just after the shooting who appears to be reaching in his back pocket

As the crowd rush towards the overpass along the fence.!

Where did you read this information? Was it in a photo or one of the films? Also, remember in the Couch film we caught sight of 2 men with big hats and overcoats over their arms. Very respectable, Obviously, they were concealing weapons.

Kathy

Hi it's a picture in a thread "Black Dog Man" at Duncan's forum

I tried to post the address but bits missing.

It's from Bell I think DCM has moved just past the steps west of his original position.

The picture you posted made a connection .

Rick Needham did the legwork!.

Ian

We see red shirt man react vividly to the head shot whilst standing

Then HE mentions another shot while he is prone?.

The shot came from above (while he is prone) and behind(stockade fence/knoll)

Quite a few witnesses recall a shot after the head shot yet while we do not see

Much reaction to a later shot in the film we base our distances on what we can see.

The FBI/SS re-enactment places a shot at 4+95 almost opposite the steps

A 40foot difference on film is not seen but testimonies lead us to believe it.

Witt the erstwhile umbrella man reports doing things we cannot see

In the film. And he was very close to the action.

What sort of protection allows a man (DCM) to just stroll up to the limo

Waving his arms about Durka Durka style.

Was the idea of the thread to establish Mudds ethnicity?.

Or was it to demonstrate the fallibility of testimony?.

Mike

If you read the statements of Brehm and Altgens it would appear

Likely that a shot was fired after the head shot that we know as

Z313 ,it would appear as if the "last "shot was 40 further west than is shown

In the Zfilm.Thom Purvis plotted this position using Mr West's data

Gathered for the FBI/SS re-enactment at 4+95 datum, this is about where

Mudds statement explains geographically.

And by utilising Chris Davidsons "math part one " thread to plot the speed of the limo

And the number of frames this calculation seems correct.

But when viewing the film with this in mind many of the statements

Of those closest appear out of synch with the action.

Altgens was a pro and guessing 5 to 50 feet for focus would have been

Second nature to him ,I believe he fluffs his given script and goes a little loco

When trying to lie about the "last shot".

This would also be a good opportunity for a through and through (SBT) shot

As both JFK and JBC are more "aligned" between the seats by thenJFK,s

Skull is weakened and a head shot At this point in time would most likely hit

Connally as well.

Ian

Ian,

Sorry, but I don't understand the last part of your post. Wasn't JC already lying down by this time? Hadn't he already been wounded? And what do you mean when you say, "this is about where Mudd's statement explains geographically."?

Please clarify.

Thanks,

--Tommy

Tommy

Sorry old bean a bit slapdash .

It's possible for JBC to have been hit twice.

If JFK was leaning to his left some of JBC was "in line" with the head

Of JFK

Mike

If you read the statements of Brehm and Altgens it would appear

Likely that a shot was fired after the head shot that we know as

Z313 ,it would appear as if the "last "shot was 40 further west than is shown

In the Zfilm.Thom Purvis plotted this position using Mr West's data

Gathered for the FBI/SS re-enactment at 4+95 datum, this is about where

Mudds statement explains geographically.

And by utilising Chris Davidsons "math part one " thread to plot the speed of the limo

And the number of frames this calculation seems correct.

But when viewing the film with this in mind many of the statements

Of those closest appear out of synch with the action.

Altgens was a pro and guessing 5 to 50 feet for focus would have been

Second nature to him ,I believe he fluffs his given script and goes a little loco

When trying to lie about the "last shot".

This would also be a good opportunity for a through and through (SBT) shot

As both JFK and JBC are more "aligned" between the seats by thenJFK,s

Skull is weakened and a head shot At this point in time would most likely hit

Connally as well.

Ian

Thanks Malcom

I have been following both the threads you mentioned

Which brings me to this question ,How many different agencies/private backers

Were pulling Oswalds strings?.

I find it difficult to believe that Walkers supporters did not know of his

Sexual preferences ,at least those "close" to him. This would have

Given rise to a built in failure in the future had anybody got a whiff of it.

And of course the obvious blackmail/pressure from those in the know!.

I also believe his resignation could have been urged by this being exposed

By the reporter but possibly not by that paper as I believe the owner

Was a prominent nazi Atlee Phillips type disinfo guru!.

Ian you may find the information within this site...best b.

http://home.earthlink.net/~sixthfloor/

Thanks B

There seems to be a lot of confusion about the Wallace

Print/s !. Maybe because very few believe him to be there and if his print/s

Were found there it would be to ensure LBJ to silence.

Layers of deceit within each seperate piece of evidence or testimony

Only makes you want to discover more!.

Ian

Perhaps they could not agree on the final scene !. Bus,Taxi or Rambler ?.

Take the SBT ..........please....... A theory untested is the worst kind of evidence

It's in the history books as a fact .... Who can I sue?.

Robert

At what level was Mac Wallace involved?.

Were his prints found or not?.

Or were his Prints uncovered as insurance/leverage?

I think this hit a bit too big for Wallace !.

Walker as the real patsy is also a possibility?.

If the tiers of power were prepared for leakage/discovery at any

Point !.

A "loose cannon" literally! . Then the leak about his sexual

Proclivities , resignation , his ill feelings and outpourings

Lone lonely nut?.

Black dog?.

There is a man in a dark suit appears at the end of the parapet

Wall just after the shooting who appears to be reaching in his back pocket

As the crowd rush towards the overpass along the fence.!

Karl

A rambler was seen parking with 2 occupants outside or near

The tidy laundromat ,an Oswald lookylikey

Used the phone in the laundry the driver walked away!

Cannot remember the street name though!

Ian

If "Bishop" was seen with Oswald as per Fonzi via Vechiana

Who is the show for and by whom?.

Atlee-Phillips wanted Vechiana to

"see" but not know.

Or was Vechiana supposed to let the cat out of the bag?.

Is this why Vechiana did not completely ID Atlee Phillips ?.

Were they still of use to each other?.

Paul

Do you have a link to the German reporters story about

Walkers private life ?.

I believe you mentioned him doing some extra legwork to obtain

A fuller story , and was it published?.

Thanks again.

Ian

Jim/Paul

Been following this thread from the start and have seen connections

Between Walker and military and or agency, thinking about the

Public side of his life, when I read this Piece

http://www.ctka.net/pr996-odio.html

This is Sylvia Odio's statement in which she mentions the Connels

And how Mrs Connel knew Walker .

Through the John Birch society!.

I believe there was a connection between the two other men

That visited with "Leon" Oswald .

The other two were named but then retracted their statements.

Could this incident be part of Oswalds sheep dipping or

Separate to Walkers part?.

Do we know anything about the Connels as she seemed to have

Quite a hold over Sylvia !.

Similar to George De M. And Oswald

Ruth Paine and Marina!.

Mrs Connels ex owned the local cement works.

You probably know all this but for some of us are on

Permanent catch up .

Walker has been "hidden" for far too long.

Great work guys fascinating reading!.

Thank you, Ian, for sharing this interesting item about ex-General Edwin Walker as related to Sylvia Odio.

Actually, the Warren Commission once asked ex-General Walker if he had ever associated with any Cuban Exiles or organizations. Walker admitted that he attended meetings with Carlos Bringuier and the DRE (Student Revolutionary Directorate), a militant right-wing Anticommunist Anti-Castro group of young Cuban Exiles who were seeking funds for their training camps. Walker admitted he gave them a little bit of money.

When asked if he had ever seen Lee Harvey Oswald at any of those meetings, Walker said, no.

Now, the meetings in question were held in Dallas, Texas, although the DRE had its headquarters in New Orleans -- specifically at 544 Camp Street, above the offices of Guy Banister. So -- there is a connection there -- but it is like pulling teeth struggling for every little thread.

The material you shared, Ian, is a significant breakthrough, because it links General Walker with Sylvia Odio. I would have said a major breakthrough, except that the material we have so far to connect Walker with Odio is very little -- presented through a third party, namely, Lucille Connell, a wealthy Dallas resident; an eccentric and a member of the John Birch Society.

In the article you presented, Ian, one of the Warren Commission attorneys, Wesley Liebeler, had interviewed Sylvia Odio independently of the Warren Commission Hearings, and the name of General Walker came up briefly. Wesley Liebeler had just asked Sylvia Odio if she knew Lucille Connell:

- - - - - - - - -

SYLVIA ODIO: "Mrs. Connell was apparently involved in more than she pretended. Whenever she wanted to find out some information she would take me out to lunch. I wasn't aware at the time she was using me. I knew she was involved with key people in Dallas and she was continually getting phone calls where she would lock herself in her library when she answered them. She was always mysterious, and always very careful not to mention information, she always asked. She did mention General Walker; we talked about Walker. I knew she was involved with his movement and with the John Birch Society. I think that's why she was involved with the Cubans, because we were very usable people, and expendable.

LIEBELER: Did she ever mention Conservatives of the USA?

SYLVIA ODIO: Yes, she did. We discussed that, I remember the name...And then all of a sudden one summer [Lucille] decided to become a Rosicrusian and she started traveling; was it Oklahoma or someplace where the Rosicrusians have a headquarters? She traveled quite a bit on that, I remember because she showed me a card, they issued her a card. She married a guy who takes tours to Europe and has a lot of money...Another association she recalled was the name of [Perry] Russo, which she heard mentioned as part of Garrison's investigation. She says the name rang a bell and she finds it interesting that he knew Oswald by the name of Leon Oswald also. Connell was not only involved with the Mental Health Association but very interested in psychology, mind control and brainwashing. She had a lot of books on the subject. That’s when I said to myself, “Silvia, the time has come for you to keep quiet. They don’t want to know the truth.”

- - - - - - - - -

So, that was all that was mentioned, according to the file you shared, Ian. It's only a whiff of the pie. Sylvia Odio said that she often talked about General Walker with Lucille Connell -- but she doesn't tell us any details. How frustrating is that?

Also, Liebeler asked Sylvia Odio about "Conservatives of the USA," and I suspect that he meant to say, "Conservatism USA," which was the right-wing organization of Larrie Schmidt and Bernard Weissman, who designed and published the WANTED FOR TREASON: JFK handbill, and the black-bordered ad (WELCOME MR. KENNEDY) that accused JFK of being a Communist right inside the Dallas Morning News of 11/22/1963. Their publisher was Robert Allen Surrey, who was also the President of General Walker's business, American Eagle Publishing Company.

Again, I wanted to hear Sylvia Odio's details. Exactly what did she hear about Conservatism USA and General Walker?

It would be great to have more information about the Walker connection here, because this materially links Walker with the Guy Banister and David Ferrie operation through Cuban Exiles at Lake Pontchartrain in September of 1963.

(By the way, one pertinent fact that emerged was that Sylvia Odio pinpointed the day of the Leopoldo follow-up phone call as Friday 27 September 1963, about 7;30pm.)

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Paul thanks for the info . I think I have spent too long trying to build a picture

Using the WC volumes . It's when you get into the executive material

That you find the "story " of Oswalds life is way different to how he is

Perceived by many.

It's like finding out the three bears live in central park and socialised

With Goldilocks parents !.

That's probably why the porch door was unlocked!.

Why could it not have been Oswald?.

Did I say anything that wasn't true?

Yes, of course:

"Von Pein's position apparently is, "Everyone lies...especially CT'ers...but NO ONE lied to the Warren Commission [unless their testimony might cast doubt on Oswald's guilt...then every word they said was a lie].""

I've never once said anyone lied to the Warren Commission (not even any "conspiracy" witnesses). The only two people (i.e., witnesses) I've ever called "liars" are Jean Hill and Roger Craig. But even they didn't lie to the Warren Commission. Their provable lies didn't manifest themselves until years later.

Strange then that they both started to lie simultaneously

At 12:30 on the same day!.

But obviously not strange enough?.

Jim/Paul

Been following this thread from the start and have seen connections

Between Walker and military and or agency, thinking about the

Public side of his life, when I read this Piece

http://www.ctka.net/pr996-odio.html

This is Sylvia Odio's statement in which she mentions the Connels

And how Mrs Connel knew Walker .

Through the John Birch society!.

I believe there was a connection between the two other men

That visited with "Leon" Oswald .

The other two were named but then retracted their statements.

Could this incident be part of Oswalds sheep dipping or

Separate to Walkers part?.

Do we know anything about the Connels as she seemed to have

Quite a hold over Sylvia !.

Similar to George De M. And Oswald

Ruth Paine and Marina!.

Mrs Connels ex owned the local cement works.

You probably know all this but for some of us are on

Permanent catch up .

Walker has been "hidden" for far too long.

Great work guys fascinating reading!.

Can you show is the out-takes from that broadcast Dave?.

Or do you wish to cherry pick like a good editor would?.

Thank you Mr Simkin!

After the death of John F. Kennedy in 1963 his deputy, Lyndon B. Johnson, was appointed president. He immediately set up a commission to "ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relating to the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy." Johnson asked Warren if he would be willing to head the commission. Warren refused but it was later revealled that Johnson blackmailed him into accepting the post. In a telephone conversation with Richard B. Russell Johnson claimed: " Warren told me he wouldn't do it under any circumstances... I called him and ordered him down here and told me no twice and I just pulled out what Hoover told me about a little incident in Mexico City... And he started crying and said, well I won't turn you down... I'll do whatever you say."

1.) Because of the CIA's BS story about Oswald and Kostikov in Mexico City, LBJ intimidated the hell out of Warren. Therefore at the first meeting, this guy did not really want to do anything regarding an inquiry at all. He just wanted to forestall World War III.

This is, as you say Jim, basic stuff - that the plan had this feature built into it; that a cover - up was assured because of Oswald ties to Russia and Cuba. Of course that information had to be witheld from the public when the Lone Nut cover was used. Nevertheless, we must know why Warren did what he did, and the multiple layers this conspiracy had, not just the two contradicting plans noted here to really understand the complexity of this conspiracy.

Peter

I have read recently on this forum that Warren was compromised somehow.

Something to do with Mexico?. It may have been Atlee Phillips I will check