Bernice Moore
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Posts posted by Bernice Moore
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Hi John:
The next photo, film, that Hughes and Murray took at this time, Hughes had swung his attention to (they were both taking many in the same area ) the sewer drain cover, that had been hit, in the park on the South side....The time on the Clock above the TSBD said 12.38 pm.....I do not have access to the photos right now...Also I believe this Hughes is cropped..
By that time, Aynesworth..I believe, the reporter,....as well as DPD..and some Detectives were searching the TSBD...and there were still some employees inside..it could have been anyone peering from a window...??
.B
***Correction..it was WFAA TV reporter Tom Alyea, Kent Biffle DMNews and Pierce Allman WFAA Radio......
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No, Elvis was a shooter.
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Hey Tim:
It couldn't have been ......"Elvis had left the building"...
B
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No difference than JFK in Key West, November, 1962.
Or in many other cities.
So unless one wants to argue his protection was always lax so someone could take a shot at him, there is no evidence of a CHANGE in security preacautions in Dallas. Sorry, folks.
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Hello Tim:
You mention what sounds like a laxness also in Florida, but shots were not fired in that city...were they ?? the President was killed in Dallas, Texas, and many shots were fired.....and Greer was driving the limo, and he hit the brakes, and did not obey orders.....????
""When we consider that Greer disobeyed a
direct order from his superior, Roy Kellerman, to get out of line BEFORE
the fatal shot struck the President's head, it is hard to give Agent
Greer the benefit of the doubt.""
http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/VP/0010-VP.html
B.....
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I think this image below is from the Hughes film but I may be wrong. If I am, hopefully someone will correct me.
I was wondering what that object is protruding from the window (circled)?
If this image does come from the Hughes film then I would imagine that it is no longer than 2 minutes after the shooting.
Any corrections, comments or impressions would be appreciated.
James
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Hi James:
Yes this is from Hughes...But not within two minutes.....
He ran from the TSBD area, and down through the plaza, and then up into the parking lot area, where the people were gathering....he was taking film...as he went...
He then came back down into the park area, where he took this photo, as well as others....So perhaps within 10 minutes, or so... It could be something holding the window up..??
B..
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Bernice wrote:
Anyway, by involving Mr. Ruby you involve all....don't you...??
Sorry, Bernice, your post totally escapes me.
By involving Ruby I involve everyone? Do you dispute that Ruby was involved in the plot? I would think Ruby is the SINGLE person we can all state with certainty was involved, since we can probably debate until the cows come home whether LHO was somehow implicated or was nothing but a patsy.
But why does involving Ruby necessarily involve everyone with which he ever associated? Obviously, it does not.
If, as the evidence indicates, Ruby was mob-connected then logic compels the conclusion that the mob was involved in the assassination since, presumably, mob-connected people do not normally commit high-profile murders without the approval of their mob associates.
But it is not just logical analysis that compels a conclusion that if Ruby was involved so were his bosses in the mafia.
As you know, there is fairly strong evidence that both Marcello and Trafficante were involved (by their own "confessions") as well as by Ruby's phone calls leading up to the assassination.
But to say that because Ruby knew Sturgis (which is not clear to me) therefore Sturgis was involved, and since Sturgis knew Hunt, therefore Hunt was involved, etc. etc. there is no logic to this whatsoever. Ruby reportedly knew hundreds of members of the DPD as well. Not everyone whom Ruby knew was an assassin, obviously.
Bernice also wrote:
So aren't you saying that a person is suspicious because he knew someone who knew someone else who was implicated in the involvement in some wrong doing by a third party...?
Duh...No, I am not saying that. What in the world led you to that conclusion?
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The Sturgis scenario was a simile....
But Duh !!!.
..you are the one who wrote....""Does not Ruby's involvement demonstrate Mafia involvement in the assassination? ""So what you said is that because Ruby shot and killed LHO, the Mafia was involved...????
and therefore anyone could then lead to, another scenario, the way that you have, and bring about that whomever the Mafia were involved with could have been associated with the assassination.....capice??...That is how you have involved the Mafia bosses, here, through Ruby, and through phone calls...Ruby made zillions of phone calls to many people, were they connected also...??...and then you also connect Castro as a third party....in your scenario....
sooooo
""So aren't you saying that a person is suspicious because he knew someone who knew someone else who was implicated in the involvement in some wrong doing by a third party...?""
That is basically McCarthyism....which is an accusation that you have thrown at others here.....
Who disputed that Ruby was not involved, ??...He was guilty of shooting LHO....and ..there is evidence that connects him to the mob, but that is evidence...No logical analysis does not Compel that because he was involved his bosses were, that is your supposition...that does not hold water in a murder case....There are quite a few who have confessed to the assn, but that does not mean they did, it is the proof that is needed, not just presumptions..
If ? as you say that Castro and the Mob conspired to assassinate the President...then why choose a man like LHO..as the patsy? He makes no sense ....he is not a hit man..he may or may not have been at one time a sharpshooter in the Marines years before, but I have read where he only acquired that markmanship level once ,the rest of the time he was a "maggies drawers"...shot...
Wouldn't your Mafia and or Castro,Cubans have provided someone with more experience, and also equipped him with a much better rifle....and why LHO, he had stated on TV he was a Marxist, that meant he was a communist to Americans...he was connected to the FPFC, now why on earth would Castro, go along with someone who was to be the patsy, who was already connected to Communism and Cuba..therefore making him appear guilty??.... so the US could attack and take the country over...?? for whom, the Mafia ??..they didn't....Vietnam was the bigger pie...LHO was made to appear as a Communist and a Castro sympathizer, who had been passing out leaflets in support of Castro..in New Orleans...and how did Castro and the Mafia get him the job at the TSBD..?.....that connection is from the Paines and they connect to DeMohrenschidlt , who also worked for the CIA, who also knew LBJ, who also was a friend of Harold Bryd who owned the TSBD..they all regularly met at the Petroleum Club..with others....and also in the 70's ...10 Mafia figures were killed who were associated with the Kennedy assassination investigation...why would Castro or the Mafia kill them if they had been involved in the job for them..???...I know they were going to talk...
that IMO was a clean up job, and not by Castro or Mafia.........there also is that document from the NA, that the Cuban Army and Navy were put on alert the evening of Nov. 23/63...If Castro had killed JFK, with any help, they would have surely been put on alert before not after the assassination..So duh yourself....
Here have a cone and cool down..
B
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""My question for you, Al, re your scenario of a military sniper operation: how does the Mafia fit into your scenario? Does not Ruby's involvement demonstrate Mafia involvement in the assassination? ""
But Tim, by involving Ruby in your be all scenario,( that if one group doesn't fit, or you get tired of that group in say a week or two, you can throw them out and put in whomever and it still works ??......I think I have that correct??) any group will fit..and can work...??
Anyway, by involving Mr.Ruby you involve all....don't you...??
Now take one man for instance.....Frank Sturgis ..he worked at the Tropicana Hotel in Havana...and therefore has a Cuban connection...His real name was Fiorini, and not just his contact with the Tropicana but also with Jack Ruby's friend, Lewis McWillie (who also worked there ) gives these men connections to Trafficante..and the Mob...But Sturgis worked for E.Howard Hunt..and therefore had CIA.. Government connections....Hunt was that senior CIA fella, that worked for President Nixon, as a Watergate burglar ..both he and Sturgis were arrested......
So in the end, we can say that we can link Sturgis to Trafficante ,Nixon, the CIA, Government..... and so to Jack Ruby...?? and you have already stated that" Jack Ruby's involvement demonstrates Mafia involvement in the assassination."..
So the conclusion is, no one is left out ???
So aren't you saying that a person is suspicious because he knew someone who knew someone else who was implicated in the involvement in some wrong doing by a third party...?
No wonder your theory becomes so complex, and difficult ,to keep the facts and people in a proper perspective...and muddies the waters, so to speak....But then I forgot, we can throw out your group and install another, according to your scenario....??..
Thanks for this wonderful clear aspect of the assassination, I never realised it was so easily solved.....too easy, too clear, too muddied......
B
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By the way, I do not think it is polite to impugn another person's motives, or, for that matter, to call a person "a rodent". The former is presumptuous; the latter is puerile. But that pales to labeling someone a murderer with no evidence to support the allegation.
And Bernice, I will dig out my copy of Sorenson's book but I am confident it will support my recollection of his potrayal of the friendship between JFK and Dillon.
And when I feel enough initiative I will try to contact Sorenson to get his (printable)opinion regarding the allegations against Dillon.
And by the way, it is not necessary to prove Dillon's INNOCENCE. If you want to call him a murderer and assassin, I think you'd better have evidence to support it!
Another example of Mark's wild logic: The fact that Dillon was in the intelligence service fighting Nazis for the forces of truth and justice somehow makes it more likely he was an assassin? This idea is lunatic!
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To make things clear Tim....to you and the membership......as it seems your post above may have been addressed to me??
I did not impugn your motives... nor call you a rodent..not label anyone a murderer..I have been trying to supply some information from other researchers..so do not shoot the "messenger"..
Please, do reread Sorenson's passages pertaining to Dillon..as I said, I did so just the other day, and wondered at the time, if you perhaps were meaning another book..?..as there was nothing that mentioned any great familiarity between them, other than his loaning RFK his home in Florida after the assassination...and as I had stated he worked well with him as he did the others ...If you feel you must contact Sorenson, then by all means do so...would be interesting....but also you should reread anything related to Dillon....in his book first..IMO..
I have not called anyone an assassin nor a murderer....I personally do not think anyone has, they have made inquiries as to the possibility that he could have in some way known about the plans for an assassination....and perhaps been involved in that way, and just went along........I believe...unless I missed that direct accusation....
I simply do not know, if his being in intelligence fighting nazi's would make him more likely to be an assassin, ??? and No, not everything and everyone is to be looked at in an accusatory or in a conspiratorial fashion...recall when I asked if the evidence was going to be forthcoming when an accusation against you was made re Sergetti ( sp)..??..
But Tim, you ask for it...you certainly do...
as it does not matter what the others post, not in this nor in many other threads it seems...you are right there, going overboard, telling them how wrong they are, and how right you are and you simply do not respect other peoples opinions..you do not discuss, nor look at both sides, you have your theory in stone in that wee neat box labeled, Cuban and Castro..and possibly Russia, and that's it...there are many other sides to all of this ,as well you know...sometimes have a look at what is outside that box of yours......
A man you have much respect for asked you to start a thread of your own, and post your information pertaining to the cubans, we all know in that area you have great knowledge....you thought it a good idea, and said I believe, you would...
You haven't...instead for some reason, long before Dillon's name came upon the scene, you simply dismissed any information I posted, from Shaw's book... and any discussion on any information related to it...and any other discussion that other members did try to achieve....you implied it was garbage information... did you really think that would stop me from posting more, and now you use the accusation that we, I,whomever are disinformationists...well that is an old ploy...that disinfos themselves use, as if you didn't know.....and it does not work...
The members want to simply research no matter where it leads, and you do not have the right to impede their way ....but for some reason, you do believe you have that right..and do so incessantly.....but then again so does the government.........I try to look at both sides when a subject comes up for research, no matter where it leads...I do wish you could do the same...IMO..
P.S...So what ? if someone makes a spelling or grammatical error, this is not an English Language Forum....it is proper to be correct , but all do not have a spell check...and all do not have perhaps the education others have...so what??
Now to prove to you again ,about what I say,in trying to research both sides of the subject and not jumping to any conclusions..........I spent time today searching for more information on Douglas Dillon, wherever it leads....and this is what I have found....
B.....
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In "Robert Kennedy: His Life" by Evan Thomas...2000
Dillon is mentioned many times, and quoted..he speaks of the times off the rocky coast of Maine when the Kennedy family sailed off on cruises with friends..they did so with road maps and not proper charts...back in 62..p:183
He is also mentioned as being on the Executive Committee of the National Security Council ( ExCom) the name given the policy advisors to President Kennedy during the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis...p:210
Re the blockade: "Robert Kennedy did not rule out by any means an air strike. But after the excruciating night of waiting for the troops to arrive at old Miss.,he had low confidence in the military's capacity to do anything with precision.""He knew there was no such thing as a surgical strike.""said Douglas Dillon..and he wanted to buy time to look for other, less obvious escape routes.p: 216.
On the Thurs. there had been a meeting and a consensus,the President thought had been forming around a blockade or a quarantine..approach, but by Fri. morning disagreements had broken out anew..."Minds and opinions began to change again, and not only on small points." "Meeting alone with the President on the Fri. morning, the Joint Chiefs virtually bullied the President into begin bombing."
After they had left ,JFK groused to Kenny O'Donnell he mumbled a joke but was not amused.."Those brass hats have one great advantage in their favor, if we ...do what they want us to do, none of us will be alive later to tell them they're wrong."
"* At about this time Kennedy (RFK) privately counted up the votes on a piece of scrap paper .Under "Blockade" he wrote ,"McNamara ,Gilpatrick,(Rusk,( with a plus sign) Thompson, Bohlen, Adlai, Nitze, (with a question mark and an arrow pointing to the * Strike* column), Lovett, Ed Martin,Ball, Alexis Johnson, Sorensen." Under "Strike" he wrote, "MacBundy,Taylor, Chiefs, Acheson, Dillon, John MCone," ( with a question mark and the notation. "switched"..p:217
On Fri morning Oct.20/62
" Hawks Acheson and Bundy had formidible allies. Dillon, McCone and General Taylor all emphatically chimed in for air strikes. The doves seemed to reel for a moment ,Geroge Ball said he was a "waverer" between air strikes and a bockade."
The State dept. note taker then caught some of RFK's eloquence, as he spoke against the air strikes and for a blockade:
"He thought it would be very ,very difficult indeed for the President if the decisions was for an air strike, with all the memory of Pearl Harbor and with all the implications this would have for us in whatever world there would be afterward...For 175 years we had not been that kind of country.A sneak attack was not in our traditions. Thousands of Cubans would be killed without warning, and a lot of Russians too. He favored action, to make known unmistakably the seriousness of the Unites States determination to get the missiles out of Cuba, but he thought the action should allow the Soviets some room for maneuver to pull back from their over-extended position in Cuba."
Bundy was irritated at the speech and said" this is all very well ,but a blockade would not eliminate the bases, an air strike would."...But others were listening one was Treasury Secretary Dillon felt he was witnessing " a real turning point in history. The way Bob Kennedy spoke was totally convincing to me .I knew then that we should not undertake a strike without warning."..Most of the others came around..or were softened their insistance on an immediate strike.They would continue to argue and wrestle with the options, but RFK had carried the day." pp: 218-19
On "Black Saturday, Oct.27th/62
After his meeting with Dobrynin.RFK returned to the WH and to his strung-out comrades in the cabinet room.......late that night when the air force pilots were being handed their target folders..There was but one moment of personal solicitude.
RFK asked Bob McNamara ..who had been working around the clock ,how he was..
"Well", said McNamara untruthfully .Watching the sun set, he had wondered if he would live out the week.."How about yourself."."All right." said RFK.....snip...
The group began to discuss an invasion and removing ,once and for all, Fidel Castro.The talk turning blustery,"I would suggest that it would be an eye for an eye." said McNamara."That's the mission." said Douglas Dillon. RFK interjected "I'd take Cuba back. That would be nice." "Another voice chimed in ." I'd take Cuba away from Castro." And, finally, to punch drunk laughter, someone else cracked ; "Suppose we make Bobby mayor of Havana." At midnight the ExCon broke up to get some rest, await Moscow's answer-- or prepare for war..p: 229.
Birmingham Alabama..May 2/62
King's Project C had been fizzling...
"Out of the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church flowed a thousand children some as young as 6 years old, to flood the department stores and lunch places downtown..Sheriff Eugene"Bull" Connor played his role.He turned high pressured fire hoses and dogs on the children..and arrested many...Within a day ,cameramen from every major network and a number of foreign correspondents had descended on Birmingham".
The Kennedy's initial approach was the usual one: searching out a compromise.
But RFK's attention...and the machinery of the federal government ....was now engaged...which was really what King had wanted all along. He ( RFK) was furious and felt that the children had been used and could be hurt.
They had tried the back channels. Burke Marshall" knew some lawyers down there and the editor of the paper." he slipped into town to mediate. Cabinet members were enlisted to call Birmingham businessmen and plead for peace. At Treasury, Douglas Dillon phoned the head of U.S.Steel, which owned the biggest plant in town.When King was arrested a second time, the money for bail was raised by RFK by calling on Walter Reuther of the Auto Workers and other union allies, who dipped into their slush funds for ready crush....and by May 10th...the patient and assiduous Marshall had worked out a deal with the city fathers to gradually desegregate the lunch counters, rest rooms, theaters and the rest..The children were released from the overflowing jails..But the next day the violence continued with a bombing..pp: 242-3
I believe this was Fall 66:
Regarding community action agencies , finding some monies ..."some white businessmen willing to put their money into the ghetto..".
"In early September RFK met Andre' Meyer , the hard nosed chairman of Lazard Fr'eres investment bankers who was already a trustee of the Kennedy family investments, and a financial advisor to Jackie Kennedy......snip....With typical urgency, Kennedy rounded up three other prominent businessmen with Kennedy ties...investment banker Douglas Dillon,CBS chairman William S.Paley, and IBM chairman Thomas Watson..all in one day..His pitch was practical ,said a friend who was discreetly working behind the scenes to line up other busness leaders and their money.."It, wasn't moral obligation.It was :look at the chaos we're going to have if we don't do something."
...snip......"Congress voted $45 million for a vaguely worded national program of job training, and economic development in blighted areas. But Kennedy( RFK) needed immediate funds to pay for the overhead of the Bed-Sty Corporation, so he turned to the Ford Foundation..." they turned him down....."Kennedy went over their heads to implore the new head of the Ford Foundation, McGeorge Bundy. RFK had always been edgy around Bundy ,who lacked the requisite blind loyalty to the Kennedys. But Bundy was reassured that men such as Doug Dillon and Tom Watson were rallying behind Kennedy's idea..Bundy authorized a Ford Foundation grant totaling $750,000
to get the Bed-StyCorporation off the ground."pp:325-26
"Kennedy's experiments were just that, not conversion.
He listened to Bob Dylan, but more often to Broadway show tunes.
He named sons in 1965 and 1967 after pillars of the establishment--a hawkish chairman of the joint Chiefs of Staff ,General Maxwell Taylor, ( Mathew Maxwell Taylor Kennedy),
and two patrician statesmen, Douglas Dillon and Averell Harriman
(Douglas Harriman Kennedy).....p.346
Bernice
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Bernice wrote:
p: 216...."The only thing preventing more real and imagined slights between the two men ( RFK & LBJ) is the fact that over Thanksgiving Kennedy sequestered himself in Treasury Dillon's Hobe Sound, Florida ,compound, and has been literally in communicado since."..appears to be Wed. Dec.4th/63..
Hold it! Does that not show a closeness between the Kennedys and Dillon?
Does anyone suspect that RFK was sequestering himself at the home of his brother's assassin?
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It shows IMO, that Dillon loaned, RFK his home after the assassination of his brother,perhaps for some solitude ....?...That is what the documentation states, nothing more...as seen above ...
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Mark wrote:
Fair call. My remark in parenthesis made it look as though I believed they were both Republicans. Sorenson was obviously not. You've scored a technical debating point (in duplicate). You're lucky day, Tim.
Not just luck, Mark.
Permit me, then, a friendly grammatical point.
"You're" is a contraction short for "you are". Your sentence should read"
"Your lucky day, Tim."
If you refuse to learn about the assassination from me*, perhaps you will accept my grammatical points.
By the way, I think you will be glad that I pressed you to read Sorenson's book!
Tim,
* By that I mean (for instance) that I may not know for sure who did it but I do know for sure some who did not, among them C. Douglas Dillon.
Tim,
Sorry to disappoint you but I did say "maybe". At the moment I'm going through some of the material Bernice linked to her post (#124). There's a mile of stuff there including some from Weberman. Some of it I've read before but I recommend forum readers give it more than a passing glance. The Rockerfeller Commission is interesting and probably doesn't receive sufficient coverage on the Forum, IMO.
I don't know if Dillon had foreknowledge of JFK's assassination but as I've stated ad nauseum, he can't be ruled out as a suspect, IMO. Thus I disagree with your iron clad conviction of his innocence.
Among the many problems I have with your perspective on the assassination is your tendency to claim certain sources as justification of your position. One example is the LBJ tapes, which you claim as proof of LBJ's non involvement.
John Simkin and Ron Ecker say they prove no such thing. You don't have the credibility to carry your arguments.
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Hi Mark:
Well I found Sorenson, dusted it off, and reread the Dillon passages...
there is nothing in such to claim any great love, nor friendship, it does not spell out either....however..It is a study of the years that JFK was in office, and what was accomplished....the work does not go into this type of personal area,in any real sense,.. nor of the perhaps likes and dislikes in any great depth, it is a History book.....IMO....
It does make mention that the McNamaras and Dillons were invited by the Kennedys to social gatherings more often than other members of the cabinet..we also must keep in mind, that some wives got on better with some than others, and in that case they were not invited to private gatherings...the same in all society it seems at times....and also that JFK did work closely with the Treasury, but also with the other members of the Cabinet as a one on one...
Also as far as the the book, that I have read on the LBJ tapes, by Holland, ..I did come to the conclusion at that time, that it neither shows any guilt of the man nor his innocence .....though to me, many questions did arise within the said conversations....I also wonder if, and what was not released on the tapes...??
But in the LBJ tapes book, by Holland there are a few references to Dillon..one I did want to pass along as I found it interesting....
p: 216...."The only thing preventing more real and imagined slights between the two men ( RFK & LBJ) is the fact that over Thanksgiving Kennedy sequestered himself in Treasury Dillon's Hobe Sound, Florida ,compound, and has been literally in communicado since."..appears to be Wed. Dec.4th/63..
I also think that Tim is simply practicing the (his) floccinaucinihilipilification process.
which can become rather tedious and boring very quickly,and a form of diversion from the information that anyone is trying to extend to the membership..IMO... -
Mark:
Wasn't Sorenson also CFR..?...I will have a look....
I will also check Sorenson's book and see what he had to say about
Dillon......B
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Great research on Dillon, Bernice!
Somehow, though, it appears that Mr. Gratz mysteriously has no comment on any of it...amazing, to me, since he's been Dillon's staunchest defender PRIOR to this point.
Perhaps Mr. Gratz could be so polite as to compare and contrast this material with Sorenson's information on Dillon...maybe he could even tell us whether this information is malodorous [as the "scent" screen was optional on MY computer, I didn't purchase it].
And going 'WAY back in this thread, Tim...you missed my point completely [intentionally, I'd presume] once again. I wasn't arguing that the JFK assassination was a "crime of passion," as that argument would be absurd. I was pointing out that your blanket statement that people don't kill their friends was an inaccurate and misleading generalization...and it STILL is. People don't kill their friends ONLY during crimes of passion; in America today, one is probably more likely to be killed by someone who is known by the victim, and MAY be assumed to be a friend, than one is likely to be killed by a stranger in a random act of violence. While friends don't routinely kill friends in MY neighborhood--and probably not in yours as well--it DOES occur, with alarming frequency, in America. Friends DO kill friends...so I submit that your argument to the contrary is based upon a fallacy, and is therefore invalid. THAT is my point.
But I fail to understand your perceived need to argue with ME on the point of Dillon's participation--or lack thereof--in JFK's assassination, since we APPEAR to be in agreement on this [one] point. However, I can't just stand idly by and let your blatantly false generalizations pass; that would be intellectually dishonest as well.
And Tim...before you cast stones at someone else for calling names, perhaps you should recall your own usage of such terms as "looney tunes" and "insane" in recent posts. I think we can ALL disagree without resorting to these tactics. If you'll notice, I have attacked your arguments, and upon occasion your transparent political motivations...but we need to get back on track regarding the JFK assassination, and not the character assassination of fellow researchers.
As far as the "communications breakdown''--remember that one? It was the original topic of this thread--it may have been planned; it may have been coincidental. But without further information, we may never know. Anyone have a clue where further information on the subject may be found?
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Washington Telephones...
At 1.41 p.m..( Washington time ) page boy, Richard Riedel told the Senator his brother the
Pesident had been shot.
"Ted Kennedy quickly departed from the Senate ,he broke his stride in the lobby at
the teletype machines, he couldn't see anything as the crowds had gathered around them..
"He swerved toward Lyndon Johnson's office..and dialed the AG's office from there..
government code..187,extension 2001..Nothing happened..There was no dial tone, no
sound at all."
"He dialed again and received a busy signal."
He reeled out into the street. a legislative asst. drove him the the half block to his suite.
in the Old Senate Office Building..Claude Hooten was waiting ,a Harvard classmate.
He had arrived for the Senator's anniversary party..
He led him to his suite.."The Telephone crisis was growing queerer and queerer."
"Calls could come in --Martin Argonsky of NBC ,was inquiring whether the Senator
planned a flight to Dallas--but when Ted retired to his private office and tried again
to reach his brother ,either at Justice or through the White House ,all the lines were
dead. After a pause one did briefly come to life.The White House switchboard ,however
told him that the Attorney General was talking to Dallas, and since Ted Kennedy ,unlike
Bob ,didn't have an executive extension ,there was no way of splicing him into the call."
"Like Bill Pozen at Interior ,he was left with a useless black plastic receiver ,and the task of
trying to assess the scope of the calamity."
( He ,Robert ,was talking to Clint Hill)..
Ted,Claude then streaked down Pennsylvannia Ave in Milt Gwirtzmann's Mercedes.
to Georgetown.."Twelve minutes after leaving the Hill the Mercedes skidded against the curb,
outside 1607 Twenty-eighth Street."
Milt then went for Joan at the beauty parlor..
"Ted waited for them...his face taut and drained." ""All the phones are gone"".he said.."He
and Claude had been going through the house ,picking up extensions."
They were unable to get dial tones."The Chesapeake & Potomac Telephone Company was
deaf and dumb."" They began to wonder whether the failure of the system could be more than
an accident ." "Ted decided to conduct a door to door search, asking permission of strangers
to test instruments until they found one that worked. It seemed to be the only solution.He said
to Claude" We'll split up .You try the doors on the right .I'll take the left.If you get something
let me know." He had to reach Hickory Hill.pp..197-99
and Ted Kennedy and Claude kept on ringing door bells until in a new row of town houses
they found one funtioning..Ted called Robert, and he told him quietly the President was dead.
"The instant he hung up the housewife's line went dead."...p:254
"At 4.15pm. exactly fifteen minutes before the Gold Room adjournment ,the Chesapeake
& Potomac Telephone Company's Georgetown office, which served the Pentagon, had become
the last exchange in the capital to resume normal operations. The phone emergency was then
officially over. "..p:253
"The phone company was doing it's best...half the circuits in the entire Eastern half of the
United States had been reserved for Washington traffic--but Dallas' eighteen long distance
trunks were all overloaded...
"Both the signal board in the east basement and the NAtional 8-1414 board on the fourth
floor of the Executive Office Building were in a bind ." The Chesapeake Potomac dial tones
grew progressively slower until they ceased altogether .For the first time in memory the Signalmen
discovered that ""we could not dial out"".
"As expert technicians they realized that the trouble lay in over burdened exchanges."p:254
"It was a few minutes after 1.pm Dallas, (2pm Wash.) that Dr.Burkley stepped into the passage
way of Parkland Hospital and told Kellerman the President was dead.."
At 1.05 Dallas (2.05pm Washington) Sergeant Philip Tarbell ,who was the key signalman at the White House
switchboard ..(Kellerman had ordered Clint Hill to inform Jerry Behm that the President was dead.)
(Hill suggested that the Attorney General be told at the same time, before he heard from the press......Kellerman nodded
and Clint went ahead ( and called ) asking first for Behm.
"Tarbell recollected " at 2.05p.m.(Wash) --1.05 (Dallas pm) in the hospital .Anyone, the eavesdropping operators chose to
tell knew within the next few minutes." p" 244..
this they said caused and internal crisis..In the Sergeants
words ."" The switchboard went completely wild ,with everyone attempting to call out ."".
" The big wave broke within the next half hour." p: 244.
But this was at 2.05 pm Washington time....but .....
At 1.41 p.m..(Washington time) page boy,Richard Riedel told the Senator his brother the Pesident had been shot.
"Ted Kennedy quickly departed from the Senate ,he broke his stride in the lobby at
the teletype machines, he couldn't see anything as the crowds had gathered around them..
"He swerved toward Lyndon Johnson's office..and dialed the AG's office from there..
government code..187,extension 2001..Nothing happened..There was no dial tone, no
sound at all."
"He dialed again and received a busy signal." at 1.41pm (Wash)
..
The phones were already down...?????... the timing does not correlate ??????
From" "The Death of a President "..William Manchester .67
B:
-
By the way, I went back and checked.
It was MARK who first brought up the "Castro did it" scenario on Post #61, on page 5 of this thread. Prior to that time, not a single one of my posts on this thread had anything to do with the "Castro scenario". I just was talking about how dumb it is, and immoral, in my opinion, to be accusing Douglas Dillon of murdering his close friend JFK.
I am confident that if you check the other posts in which the "Castro scenario" came up you will find that I am not the one who started it.
Tim,
You're a slippery little rodent. My post was in response to your claim in Post#50 that there were posts on this thread which were garbage. Aghast at the thought that this thread might go places other than Trafficante/Castro/Pro-Castro Cubans, Tim thinks "how do I get my material onto centre stage?". Answer: just say those posts are garbage--someone's bound to respond 'cause I've got more garbage than anyone there. True genius. Then claims that this often happens, which translates as "I use this strategy lots".
Despite all that, this has turned into a very interesting thread, covering a good range of controversial issues. It's been fascinating to watch Robert clinically dispose of most of your assertions. Have you responded yet ? You see, I don't know as much as you on the Castro/Mob theory on the assassination. I doubt if I ever will as you've obviously devoted thousands of hours to it. Trouble is, those who do know what they're talking about on your theory don't appear to back you up. Robert Charles-Dunne and Mark Knight seem to know what they're talking about but still no backers. What conclusion do I draw?
The funny thing is that if anything new comes out of this thread, it might be some research into the background of C. Douglas Dillon. I've never seen such a tantrum about the naming of a suspect and there's been many patriotic Americans named as suspects including 2 Presidents and the joint chiefs. Fascinating.
***********************
Mark.....
There may be some information pertaining...to C.Douglas Dillon..in these links that you will find interesting...
Sorry I have not had the time to take it any further....
B..
Clarence Dillon and his son C. Douglas Dillon were directors of USIS, which was spotlighted when Clarence Dillon was hauled before the Senate Banking Committee's famous "Pecora" hearings in 1933. USIS was shown to be one of the great speculative pyramid schemes which had swindled stockholders of hundreds of millions of dollars. These investment policies had rotted the U.S. economy to the core, and led to the Great Depression of the 1930s.
Note #b|"C. Douglas Dillon" was the boss of William H. Draper, Jr. in the Draper-Prescott Bush-Fritz Thyssen Nazi banking scheme of the 1930s and 40s. His father, Clarence Dillon, created the Vereinigte Stahlwerke (Thyssen's German Steel Trust) in 1926. C. Douglas Dillon made "Nicholas Brady" the chairman of the Dillon Read firm in 1971 and himself continued as chairman of the Executive Committee. C. Douglas Dillon would be a vital ally of his neighbor Prescott Bush during the Eisenhower administration.
Among the other team members were Bush's Hitler-era lawyer John Foster Dulles, and Jupiter Islander C. Douglas Dillon. Dillon and his father were the pivots as the Harriman-Dulles combination readied Ike for the presidency. As a friend put it: "When the Dillons ... invited [Eisenhower] to dinner it was to introduce him to Wall Street bankers and lawyers."
Note #b|"C. Douglas Dillon," neighbor of Bush on Jupiter Island, became undersecretary of state in 1958 after the death of John Foster Dulles. Dillon had been John Foster Dulles's ambassador to France (1953-57), coordinating the original U.S. covert backing for the French imperial effort in Vietnam, with catastrophic results for the world. Dillon was treasury secretary for both John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson. /
http://www.patrickcrusade.org/new_page_2.htm
The Jupiter Island connection and father Prescott's Brown Brothers, Harriman/Skull and Bones networks are doubtless the key. Jupiter Island meant Averell Harriman, Robert Lovett, C. Douglas Dillon and other Anglophile financiers who had directed the US intelligence community long before there had been a CIA at all. And, in the back yard of the Jupiter Island Olympians, and under their direction, a powerful covert operations base was now being assembled, in which George Bush would have been present at the creation as a matter of birthright.
Preparation for what was to become the Halloween massacre began in the Ford White House during the summer of 1975. The Ford Library in Ann Arbor, Michigan preserves a memo from Donald Rumsfeld to Ford dated July 10, 1975, which deals with an array of possible choices for CIA Director. Rumsfeld had polled a number of White House and administration officials and asked them to express preferences among "outsiders to the CIA." [fn 2]
Among the officials polled by Cheney was Henry Kissinger, who suggested C. Douglas Dillon, Howard Baker, Galvin, and Robert Roosa. Dick Cheney of the White House staff proposed Robert Bork, followed by Bush and Lee Iacocca. Nelson Rockefeller was also for C. Douglas Dillon, followed by Howard Baker, Conner, and James R. Schlesinger. Rumsfeld himself listed Bork, Dillon, Iacoca, Stanley Resor, and Walter Wriston, but not Bush. The only officials putting Bush on their "possible" lists other than Cheney were Jack O. Marsh, a White House counselor to Ford, and David Packard. When it came time for Rumsfeld to sum up the aggregate number of times each person was mentioned, minus one point for each time a person had been recommended against, the list was as follows:
Robert Bork [rejected in 1987 for the Supreme Court] White McGee Foster [John S. Foster of PFIAB, formerly of the Department of Defense] Dillon Resor Roosa Hauge
http://www.tarpley.net/bush8b.htm
SEVENTEEN YEARS OF BILDERBERGERS INCLUDING THE 2000 INVITEES AND ...
... Dewey BB/CFR John Diebold BB/CFR C. Douglas Dillon BB/CFR Christopher J. ...
Rockefeller BB/CFR Sharon Percy Rockefeller BB Inciarte Matias Rodriquez BB ...
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/bball.htm
CLARENCE DILLON (1882-1979)
Born in San Antonio, Texas, son of Samuel Dillon and Bertha Lapowitz. Harvard, 1905. Married Anne Douglass of Milwaukee. His son, C. Douglas Dillon (later Secretary of the Treasury, 1961-65) was born in Geneva, Switzerland in 1909 while they were abroad. Dillon met William A. Read, founder of the Wall Street bond broker William A. Read and Company, through introduction by Harvard classmate William A. Phillips in 1912 and Dillon joined Read's Chicago office in that year. He moved to New York in 1914. Read died in 1916, and Dillon bought a majority interest in the firm. During World War 1, Bernard Baruch, chairman of the War Industries Board, (known as the Czar of American industry) asked Dillon to be assistant chairman of the War Industries Board. In 1920, William A. Read & Company name was changed to Dillon, Read & Company. Dillon was director of American Foreign Securities Corporation, which he had set up in 1915 to finance the French Government's purchases of munitions in the United States. His righthand man at Dillon Read, James Forrestal, became Secretary of the Navy, later Secretary of Defense, and died under mysterious circumstances at a Federal hospital. In 1957, Fortune Magazine listed Dillon as one of the richest men in the United States, with a fortune then estimated to be from $150 to $200 million.
http://www.cephas-library.com/nwo/federal_...iographies.html
C. DOUGLAS DILLON
http://www.ajweberman.com/nodules/nodule23.htm
JFK Lancer: The Investigations
http://www.jfklancer.com/Investigations.html
Council on Foreign Relations
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/m...s/conspire.html
Information by Operation CHAOS
http://www.cia-on-campus.org/surveil/chaos.html
Gerald R.Ford Library
U.S. PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON CIA ACTIVITIES
WITHIN THE UNITED STATES:
Files, [1947-1974] 1975
http://www.ford.utexas.edu/library/guides/...20-%20Files.htm
Operation Mockingbird
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=3054
Bilderberg Conference 2005 - 5-8th May, Rottach-Egern, Munich, Germany
http://www.bilderberg.org/2005.htm
The Modern History Project
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Thankyou Mark Stapleton:
You asked:
Mark:""One question. If, as you argue, the Ultra Right/Texas oil failed to possess enough influence to carry out the assassination on their own, is it not possible they may have formed a co-operative "joint venture" with the MIC in order to achieve this? The reason I ask is that, to me, the fact that it was carried out in Dallas is too much of a coincidence for those groups (they may well be one and the same) to be uninvolved. The other thing for me is LBJ. As Ron points out, the timing of the hit was just too good to be true for him. His background also condemns him. The counter arguments forwarded by WC supporters are coincidence (Re Dallas) and coincidence (Re LBJ) to which I would reply "crap" (Re Dallas) and "crap" (Re LBJ).""
I had posted:
""Did Texas oil think they had a reasonable motive for wanting JFK removed from office ? Yes..to protect it's economics ,not to mention their general displeasure at Kennedy's liberal policies..
Did Texas Oil have the power...and resources to kill a President ?? Obviously it lacked nothing that money could buy...it's weath could have bought the finest hitmen in the business of assassination..and place one of Texas' own at the pinnacle of power...Could they have manipulated the cover-up, to some extent ..No doubt it carried a lot of weight on Captiol Hill and could have and more than likely did influence the Johnson WH to some extent..But, it would have taken much more than money to have bought the FBI ,the CIA,the military ,the Secret Service and certain hig goverment officials...it seems impossible.....
Could they have been powerful enough to have commanded or persuaded some of the highest officials in the land..to perjure themselves,before the American public.
The oil men lacked this kind of influence to pressure some leaders to lie and conceal the truth...some were too honest and stubborn perhaps, to be bought off...
While some could have provided financial support of the assassination operations , the Texas Oil did lack the power to carry out both phases ...the assassination and the Cover-Up....""
Here are more What If's for you Mark ..
I think that perhaps the Oil Barons, could have supplied all monies needed for all minions and anything needed to be used, to have the assassination completed...then watched as H.L.Hunt did from his seventh story office as the motorcade drove by.....this is where, the" follow the money thought" does come into all this.... they could have bought and paid for the best snipers the world had available...men whose profession was a target..and then simply disappeared into history...they were readily available...In that way money wise, I agree it is a possibility...
But on another train of thought why would "they" need to use anyones money ?...if the MIC did murder their commander in chief....there was access to millions readily available, from a Pentagon source....business whatever .....( what was it they were paying around $700.00 for a screw driver at the time...??? in reality the extra $695...went into the slush fund??)..I don't think money would be a problem....in some ways...I don't think "oil" would have had to be involved in anyway...??
Mark:""The reason I ask is that, to me, the fact that it was carried out in Dallas is too much of a coincidence for those groups (they may well be one and the same) to be uninvolved. The other thing for me is LBJ. As Ron points out, the timing of the hit was just too good to be true for him. His background also condemns him""
Yes, I agree definitely the timing was too good, and wasn't it so convenient that Dallas was chosen, extreme Right Wing, and also wasn't it convenient that Chicago, and Florida, failed with the planned attempts in those cities...more coincidence...??
Is it all too convenient as Ron points out ( great thought Ron )...this is what bothers me and has for a long time.....all just too coincidental....
LBJ...is going to jail...if JFK is still in office, or in the least his career is over and reputation in smitherines...the oil depletion allowance in Texas is being drastically cut..., "King Oil" profits being reduced.....it occurrs in Dallas,Texas the foremost right wing city in the state, at the time,in the country......there is going to be detente with the Communists, Russia, and with Castro, no take over...no invasion that the anti Cubans were desperate for..( which there wasn't in any case ).....no return of the island to the Mafia and their cohorts.....and from what I have been able to read...no Vietnam....and the dismantling of the CIA...I am sure I have forgotten other reasons, but on the top of the list, another Kennedy administration being voted in, possibily the next November..for another 4 years...then possibly Robert??..things were looking pretty good....in a lot of ways..
All just too coincidental, isn't it.....and as we see also.....and the one man who was and would be responsible for all the above, just happened to be the one man murdered that day in Dallas....the President...ruddy amazing...
Who have been blamed, and held responsible, by many:?
1..L.B.J..and Texas Oil Men
2..Castro: Communists..
3..Russia: Communists..
4..Anti Castro movement..
5..Right Wing extremists..
6..CIA..
7..Military..
9..Mafia..
8.. a Patsy..LHO or a man by any other given name that would have served the purpose..a disturbed lone assassin.
It is just so convenient that the assassination took place in Dallas, LBJ's home state, home of the extreme right wingers...and "King Oil"..and that there is information and documentation leading to such...
It is also covenient that there appears to be information leading to the possibility of a Castro, Communist involvement..and possibly information leading to a Russian involvement...
It is also very convenient that there also appears to be information leading to, and photos of look-a- likes, present in Dealey, of some anti-cubanites-some right wingers-and some military presence...It is so convenient it is amazing, at times to me...and makes me question the why?? as I seem to continually do ...it seems just too pat in some ways....??
Whose left ?? Whose not mentioned ?
Industrial-Business ? Money Power people, Bankers?..What if they connected with the Intelligence and the Pentagon ????? IF ?? then we would have a MIC...possibley...who would have all the power they would ever need to create and carry out and cover-up such a slaughter...all these years...?? enough power to twist anyones arm....??
It all seems to be like so, invisible in some ways...like transparent ?? as if all was planned in such a way,as to confuse and contradict all else, each piece deliberatley, so that nothing would ever be solveable down through history....almost as if there was a grand schematic on a huge drafting table, all laid out, connecting all the dots to each other, so that one leads to the other continually and conveniently , to lead all researchers, historians continually in a circle.....and it works...????
What if, this what I call, Industrial-Business-Money-Power people, Bankers.?( for use of a better name)
Used the intelligence world-who would then use their connections and power to the military (and thereby being able to use anyone and anything they possibley needed)( and thereby framing and connecting all to the assassination, in some way, to create complete deliberate confusion) and by committing such a deliberate invisible, transparent assassination... gaining full control over the politics ,government, it's people,and the most powerful country in the world..the United Sates...and in doing so framing all other groups, that any of the information, evidence, and documentation seems to lead to???
Leading to all the confusion we see each and every day in this grand scam of things..that they could have possibley perpetuated so brilliantly...?????
I know a lot of what if's? I am just trying to think out of the box as they say ,here, as there are simply just too many convenient , coincidential , connections to all...and I have absolutely no answers, and nothing definite I can say positively....sorry...
Thanks for the come back and thoughts and your kind remarks re the posts....
B..
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Ron: I was coming back to give you what info I had on the telephones in Washington...But am so pleased to see Charles give his research in this area..for all our information.....Thanks..
Shanet..Mark...Ron and others that are interested...in this information pertaining to these groups that may have been involved in assassination...I am very interested in your input and conversations...of these other possible contributors to such.....sorry I cannot recall all your names...let's continue....
***************************
The murder of President Kennedy could have been the function of a top-level military-industrial-intelligence faction of the United States government.
When President L.B.Johnson chose the members of the Warren Commission, some had long-standing allegiance to these factions...
Chief Justice Earl Warren: Though revered by some.....Was a most important source and mover in organizing the first concentration camps in the U.S. after they entered WW 2 interpreting the Constitution as allowing the imprisonment of innocent American citizens whose ancestry happened to be Japanese...thereby being loyal to the military.
On Dec.9/63 Nicholas Katzenbach sent a memorandum to Warren stating that copies of the FBI Report was being sent to him and the other members of the WC..on the assassination..
The FBI report stated :" one of the bullets had entered just below his shoulder to the right of the spinal column at an angle of 45 to 60 degrees downward, that there was no point of exit." ....as of Dec.9/63....Earl Warren and the government therefore could not have such a scenario as the "Magic Bullet"....the three-bullet lone assassin theory..as ( there was no point of exit).......if the government were innocent and Earl Warren was not in compliance...this alone proved evidence of conspiracy...
The memo further mentioned "....that the latest gallop poll shows that over half the American people believe that Oswald acted on part of a conspiracy,in shooting President Kennedy ..I think therefore ,the Commission should consider releasing or allowing the Dept of Justice to release, a short press statement which would briefly make the following points."
"" The FBI report through scientific examination of evidence ,testimony and intensive investigation ,established beyond a reasonable doubt that Lee Harvey Oswald shot President Kennedy on Nov. 22,1963..The FBI made exhaustive investigation into whether Oswald may have conspired with or been assisted by any organization ,group,or person foreign or domestic ,in carrying out this dastardly act..To date this aspect of the investigation has been negative.""
Warren accepted what to some appear to be orders ,and did a great disservice to the country and to the Constitution but a great service to the MIC, he also showed contempt for the American public whom the majority had stated loud and clear that they believed there was a conspiracy.....the American people were to be misled, lied to, confused, and manipulated, and also pay the cost as taxpayers for the Warren Commission, that carried his name.....he continued with his charade..and pretended to be looking for the truth but in reality he had apparently accepted his orders and was in compliance...Why ?..whatever his reasons...he then proceeded to allow the fantasy to be created....By not informing the citizens of the United States ,of the lies held within this announcement was he was guilty of obstruction of justice ?
Allen W.Dulles: Was Director of the CIA for 8 years 53/61..until President Kennedy fired him, after the BOPs fiasco.Under Dulles the CIA grew and developed it's enormous power .He had been a master spy in the Office of Strategic Services (OSS).
--the U.S. Intelligence agency during WW 2 and the forerunner of the CIA...He was credited with two outstanding feats: the penetration of the German Abwehr (Hitler's Intelligence Service) and the negotiating the surrender of German troops in Italy...
Here was the consummate cold warrior..on Jan21/64, there was a secret executive meeting of the WC..Marina Oswald was going to give evidence that LHO was a Soviet Spy:...a snip.....of the meeting....
Russell stated" That will blow the lid if she testifies to that." Dulles stated he knew Isaac Don Levine who was with Life Magazine, who had the assigment and meeting with Marina..the article was never published , Dulles stated "I can get ahold of him and have a friendly talk." Now why would Dulles want to potect the Soviets, if LHO was an agent ? He and his brother Secretary of State John Foster Dulles, certainly had been willing to carry the U.S to the brink of nuclear war in post WW 2 times...so why now the reluctance.... to invole Russia ?
In Gaeton Fonzi's book, you will see that he has traced the assassination to the CIA and President Kennedy had fired Allen Dulles....as the head of such..therefore could Dulles have had the knowledge that LHO was the patsy, and that the CIA had carried out the assassination ? He had an interest in protecting the agency, he had reason to hate Kennedy and his courage for opposing the intelligence and military on Cold War policy... in appointing Dulles to the WC, President Johnson had placed him in a position of obstructing justice, which he then carried out....there could not be an investigation that would lead to the CIA...
(The information that has been researched on LHO, points to him being a U.S Intelligent Agent...the same government agencies who created the Marxist cover for him, were more than likely involved in the assassination.)
John J.McCloy: Was the Assisstant Secretary of War from April 1941..to Nov.1945.
President of the World Bank from 1947-49 and the US Military Governor and High Commissioner to Germany from 1949-51..
Gerald R.Ford: A staunch ally of the military establishment and the Pentagon.He had the reputation on the Hill as the CIA's best friend in Congress..He became President and chose the members of the Rockefeller Commission ,and accepted that commissions whitewashed report..he also withheld it's findings on the CIA's alleged
assassination plots..He did everything in his power to block the release of the Church Committee findings about the CIA's assassination plots against foreign leaders and it was Ford who steadfastly defended the Agency and harshly criticized those in Congress and the media who called for vast reforms and tighter reins to control the CIA.....and it was Ford who moved President Kennedy's back wound up several inches, on the Bethesda Autopsy Report....it was Ford, who stole the LHO Diary that legally belonged to Marina Oswald, and sold the contents to Life Magazine....
and it was Ford who kept J.Edgar Hoover and the FBI informed of all that came to light within the Warren Commission during regular meetings with him...
The Warren Commission is a volume of lies and deceit , and therefore we could be led to one of two possible conclusions:
The WC was part of the conspiracy and was used to conceal the truth about the crime.
or..........
Like the man who created it, the Commission had been placed under the control of the force that killed Kennedy....
The FBI: Hoover the Assassination and the Warren Commission..
If concealing facts and evidence in the assassination is a sign of guilt...the FBI is a prime suspect..They were the principal investigative arm of the WC...who had none of it's own, though they certainly had the power to have created one of their own..but they accepted Hoover's information readily, though at times questionably.
The FBI:
Witheld much pertinent information..
Submitted a barrage of irrelevant data...( such as a sampling of the dental charts of Jack Ruby's Mother..CE 1281....a study of the differences between Caucasian,Negroid and Mongoloid hair..CE 668-670...and two copies of Marina's dental charts....a 48 page summary..from when she was pregnant..CD 884 )
Altered, suppressed and destroyed evidence .
Procrastinated in investigating and replying to Commission requests for specific information...
Intimidated witnesses who disputed the lone assassin theory.
Botched the New Orleans investigation...
Did not thoroughly investigate Dealey Plaza..and area ,site of the killing..
The misconduct is too long to extensive to cover here.
In the FBI Summary and Supplemental reports ,there contains statements,allegations of medical findings and other evidence which are irreconciliable with the Commission's own findings based on the same evidence .The Bureau was in the rediculous position of submitting reports which contradicted the conclusions of the Warren Report, while at the same time illogically conceding that those same findings were correct..??? ( for a detailed analysis see the "Whitewash Series"; and "Post Mortum" by Harold Weisberg.)
One such....the suspicion that LHO was a FBI informant ..yet the FBI were more than ready to close the case..in a matter of days......based on the fact that he was the lone assassin..( seen in transcript of the Jan. 22/64 session .).during this emergency meeting that was called to discuss the rumour , the information being supplied by Texas A.G.Waggoner Carr, was that LHO was being paid $200 a month and had been recruited in Sep.62..and assigned # S-179 .The WC members were so stunned that Allan Dulles suggested that the minutes of the meeting be destroyed..
The Commission seemed convinced that the FBI was deliberately leaking information,to the press.....to build the lone assassin case quickly and decisively in the public mind. ( the FBI failed to inform the SS and DPD of Oswald's presence in Dallas..prior to Kennedy's visit.)
In the Jan. 27/64 transcript session, the Commission members seemed terrified of Director Hoover ?? and suspicious...for two hours they discuss ways of inquiring about the informant rumor..Indeed they spent Four months..debating just how to approach Hoover for a disclaimer that would convince the public ..Intially they had decided that a disclaimer would not suffice, nor would it convince the public..after being informed that if LHO was an informer, Hoover would lie..Dulles also confides that during his tenure as CIA director, he would have lied under oath to anyone except the President ,if he thought it was in the interest of the nation or the Agency..
Finally Rankin approached Hoover ,he flatly denied the rumor and the matter, and as far as the WC was concerned it was dropped..
( It was during this session that Rankin made his famous remark: "We do have a dirty rumor that is very bad for the Commission...and it must be wiped out insofar as it is possible to do so by this Commission."....re LHO being a paid informer..
The last two lines:
Russell: (referring to the attitude taken by FBI's re it's reports.)..."You have our statement. What else do you want ?."
McCloy:" Yes,""We know who killed cock robin."
That is the point ,it isn't only who killed cock robin.
No less than seven FBI agensts are known to have been associated with Oswald during the year and a half between his return from the Soviet Union and the assassination.
The first contact ,a two hour interview on June 26/62 ( Report) shortly after his return. Two months later Aug.16/62...SA John Fain and Arnold Brown...in a stakeout in an car near Oswald's home..they approached him, as he walked down the street, Fain told the WC that was done so as not to embarrass him in his home..( 4 Hearings p.420)..He invited them in but they insisted the conversation be held in the car..
Apparently they wished to discuss something they did not want overheard.
LHO promised to report "any contacts or attempted contacts by Soviets under
suspicious circumstances or otherwise." What else did he promise them...and what was promised to him in return.?
Aug.9/63 New Orleans during the leaflet FPGC distribution, he was arrested , and strangley he requested and promptly received an interview with an FBI agent John Quigley.......FBI agent James P.Hosty's name, address, telephone number, and auto license were in LHO's personal notebook...This information was omitted in a Dec.23/63 FBI report to the WC..Seven weeks later they corrected their mistake.?
Hosty was assigned to investigate Oswald prior to the assassination. On the afternoon of Nov.22/63 he lamented to DPD Lt.Jack Revill "Jack, a communist killed President Kennedy....Lee Harvey Oswald killed President Kennedy....We had information that he was capable of this..."..WR V H 34,35)..Revill reported the statement in a written report on Nov.22/63...The statement was however kept in a locked drawer at the DPD station for five months..( Ft Worth Star Telegram: 02.09.75.)
Not until Oct.1975 did Chief of Police Jesse Curry admit to suppressing Revill's statement at the request of the FBI. He revealed the existance of the statement and the cover-up in a registered letter to Earl Warren on May 28/64. In the letter Curry states that he instructed Revill to keep his statement confidential after the police chief was requested to do so by J.Gordon Shanklin , then Special Agent-in-Charge of the Dallas FBI office...Contrary to the evidence, Hosty later denied the statement to the WC..( Report 442.)and that there was no information to justify a warning to the SS .The WC disagreed ..( Report 443) Hoover was furious with Hosty and gave him a disciplinary transfer to Kansas..with a cut in pay..("Time"11.03.75).Hoover waited till Hosty had testified before ordering the transfer lest Commission members learn of it and make an inquiry. (1V H 20 )..After his arrest, upon seeing Hosty ,Oswald being interrogated by Cap.Will Fritz, became enraged "he beat on the desk and went into a kind of tantrum" He told Hosty,"I know you .You accosted my wife on two occasions"..asked what he meant...he said " Well he threatened her." "He practically told her she would have to go back to Russia."
Agent Hosty also received the infamous note from Oswald, delivered to the FBI office..several weeks before the assassination...and it was destroyed..Hosty stated it read " If you have anything you want to learn about me, come talk to me directly.If you don't cease bothering my wife I will take appropriate action and report this to proper authorities"...the recepionist who took the note from Oswald quoted it as saying "Let this be a warning, I will blow up the FBI and the Dallas Police Department if you don't stop bothering my wife."..this information did not come out till 1975 and The House subcommittee ,at the time, immediately requested an investigation..and the testimoney it heard simply used passing the buck..tactics..
Hosty said that Shanklin ordered the destruction,of the note and his three page report made two hours after Oswald was killed by Ruby..on.24/63..Hosty said he tore it and flushed it down the toilet..Shanklin denied giving the order..said he didn't know there had been a note till 1975...But Agent Kenneth Howe testified that he personally showed the note to Shanklin..that weekend...Hosty said Howe was present...when Shanklin told him to destroy the note but Howe denied that....Hosty said he didn't tell the WC when he tesified because he had been ordered not to...by his superiors..not to volunteer any information." and they didn't ask me about it ."!! Now William C.Shanklin who headed the FBI in 75...told Time magazine 11.03.75.....that at least ten top officials at the FBI headquarters in Washington knew about the note..The New York Times 9.17.75...reported that top FBI officials ,"probably including former Director J. Edgar Hoover ."...ordered the destruction of the note" The Times attributed the report to a source it described as familiar with the meeting at which the decision to destroy the letter was made in order to avoid embarrassment to the Bureau....Did the note contain a warning of the pending assassination..??
This tiny bit of information points out the fact that the FBI was culpable in the assassination of John F.Kennedy....and there is much more available....
Hoover Was the FBI, being it's director for 39 years when he died May 1972, at the age of 77..any group contemplating the murder of the President required their assistance, and received it...by looking at the records...He was simply too powerful, and too valuable to be overlooked by the planners. Once the investigation was taken out of the legal authorities hands, where it should have remained, in Dallas, Texas...by the FBI...they headed any official investigation into the assassination..The co-operation of J.Edgar Hoover was imperative ,unless the force behind the murder was so awesome and so powerful that it was certain it could control him..?
The primary souce of his power was explained in simple terms by William C.Sullivan a 30 year verteran of the FBI at the time...
"He was very ,very powerful, unbelievably powerful..We don't ever want another man in that postion of power again.He was in there such a long time, and he gathered all the dirt that was present on people in high-ranking positions, all the irregularities ,not necessarily sex alone, but financial irregularities, or political chicanery. It doesn't have to be something of a sexual nature ,although that would be included..He was a genius at implying that he knew all this information, and sometimes he didn't know as much as he implied, but it didn't matter. Once it reached them that this implication had been made, damn it, they had a guilty conscience, and they may have done something that Hoover didn't know about, but they assumed he did know.They placed him in a position of power,and they were all afraid to get rid of him. I know Nixon was actually afraid of him.Knowledge is powerful, and he had knowledge of the most damaging kind, knowledge of people's misbehaviour."..Demaris "Argosy".
He was mentioned by Nixon to Dean on Feb.28/73 during one of the taped meetings..
President R.M.Nixon:
" (expletive deleted) Hoover was my crony .He was closer to me than Johnson, actulally though Johnson used him more. But as for Pat Gray,(expletive deleted) I never saw him."
John Dean
"While it might have been a lot of blue chips to the late Director, I think we would have been a lot better off during this whole Watergate thing if he had been alive.Because he knew how to handle ,that Bureau...knew how to keep them in bounds."
Nixon:
"Well, Hoover performed.He would have fought.That was the point .He would have defied a few people.He would have scared them to death.He has a file on everybody."
No doubt a massive sigh of relief went through Washington when Hoover died.
Following his death 35 filing drawers containing Hoover's personal files were moved from his office to his home and subsequently destroyed by Helen Gandy, his long time secretary...the destruction process took two months. ( Dallas Morning News..11.19.75...12.02.75..)
To many he was Mr.America....his legend grew for years, perpetuated by the FBI's public relations office ,and continued to grow until he was something of a demigod. To speak of him in any derogatory terms was nothing short of blasphemy ,and anyone doing so could be suspected of being a communist...In 75 the legend began to crumble and Americans started to see what type of man Hoover really was.Testimony before a Senate sub-committee revealed the faults in Hoover's character and the shocking instances of lawless acts carried out at his direction..a few.. "The Truth About Hoover" Time 12.22.75 )
"Instead of insulating his bureau from politically sensitive Presidents. Hoover eagerly complied with improper requests from the men in the White House, for information on potential opponents If a President failed to ask.....the Director often volunteered.He tapped telephones of Government officials on request, perused files of politicians unasked,volunteered tidbits of gossip. He was a petty man of towering personal hates.There was much more than a tinge of racism in his vicious vendetta against Martin Luther King Jr. He had to be pushed into hiring black agents for the bureau.His informers, infilitrators and wiretappers delved into the activities of even the most innocuous and nonviolent civil rights groups ,trampling on the right of citizens to express grievances against Government.His spies within potentially dangerous extremist groups sometimes provoked more violence than they prevented.
As an administrator, he was an erratic, unchallenged czar, banishing agents to Siberian posts on whimsy, terrorizing them with torrents of implausible rules, insisting on conformity of thought as well as dress."
He also presented the information of John F.Kennedy's Addisons desease to LBJ before the Democratic Convention ,in choosing it's new candidate for President...LBJ did not use it publicly, but made sure that the news was out....amongst certain people.
This was the type of man in charge of the FBI, when John F.Kennedy was President...and assassinated, and responsible for the gathering of the information on the murder.....and he also had had no use for the President...would he have had a reasonable motive, as he saw it to have him removed from office...?..Yes, his comtempt for the Kennedy's was well known in the nations capitol...It irked him to no end, that Robert, whom he particularly abhorred, and who was his superior as Attorney General...was born in 1924 ...and Hoover had come to the helm of the Bureau one year before....
Other than his dislike of the brothers, the only other possible motive that could be attributed to him would have been that the Kennedys wanted to remove him from his powerful position...it has been reported by associates of the President that after the 64
election,he planned to put the aging Hoover out to pasture..when he reached his 70th Birthday...on Jan.1/65.....( which LBJ did not)....But that plan seems to be somewhat unlikely when you consider the considerable files that Hoover had accumulated on them.....he is known to have had thick files on the Kennedy's personal lives ...
**On two occasions Hoover sent details of JFK's sexual personal files on his relations with other women to Richard Nixon for use in the Presidential campaigns; they were submitted for use in the 1960 campaign against JFK, and in 1971 for possible use against Edward Kennedy had he sought the Democratic nomination.**
Dallas Morning News 12.23.75..
Did Hoover possess the power and resources to kill the President ?? Yes... the resources and contacts at the Bureau's disposal were almost unlimited..
* Had Hoover been involved in planning the murder ,he would not have permitted the choice of patsy as being LHO...a man who Dallas and Texas officials would indicate immediately after the assassination was a paid FBI informer.This then raises a question: Did the assassination planners deliberately select a FBI informer as a Patsy in order to embarass and thereby neutralize Hoover and the FBI??
Could Hoover have manipulated a cover-up involving Federal agencies and authorities ? Quite possibley ,with his extensive knowledge of the sins of high government officials....Could Hoover have been powerful enough to persuade or command some of the highest officials to the government to perjure themselves before the American public? Only to a certain extent, for not, all the officials would have bowed before him.....he did have some "clean" enemies..who would never have yielded to the pressure of the demigod..Of all the individuals who have held the position of public trust ,Hoover was one of the most powerful, but the execution of the President and the en-suing cover-up required far more than the power and influence this one individual could muster from his files...
While Hoover may have known JFK was to be murdered ,and did play a central role in the cover-up, there is nothing to suggest that the plot originated with the FBI Director....
If the Commission had decided to publish it's false report"in the public interest"...as the better part of descretion it could then be viewed as a delegation of the civilian leaders of the country accepting the terms laid down by the Military...
Who would benefit from Earl Warren who was a very respected liberal and a loved man, who led the Supreme Court..and conducted the secret hearings of the Commission....why and what purpose would be served in having such a liberal and distinguished man sponsor the Warren Commission Report...??? Recall from the beginning it revealed itself to be a compiliation of lies and distortion of the truth..Congress was also represented on the WC.. and Congress remained quiet and raised no queries in face of the majority of it's citizens believing in a conspiracy..The Commission was all so transparant it appeared to distort the view of the american citizens in the years that followed ,to have them question and have little faith left if any in their Government proccess, their politicians, their law enforcement agencies, and they seemed to loose their confidence in law and order and anything pertaining to Government...How could a rich, famous, much loved ,popular President be murdered in a shower of bullets and then to have been buried in a barrage of lies from the same government that he had been elected to lead..?????
Perhaps to stun the population into silence as they watched messmerized before their TVs...and into mourning to have them retreat into a feeling of utter helplessness while a new Government took hold and and executed their power over all, the Military-Industrial-Complex....an amalgamation of the armed forces, the CIA..FBI..Intelligence Community.....and the Industrial and Busininess complex....
The left blamed the right..the right blamed the left...the liberals were blamed because after all LHO was a member of the ACLU...and Warren was blamed along with the courts because he became involved in a transparent cover-up of the Assassination....Congress proved useless as it remained silent, when it should have been serving the people whom had spoken....LBJ was blamed ,after all it happened in Texas, and a lot of his good ole boys would have complied with his wishes....
All this while a new form of Government took hold, with no conscience whatsoever for the act of cold blooded murder....
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The Right Wing
The Warren Commission spent a considerable amount of time trying to dispel speculation of a right wing plot...to kill JFK..It was a strong possibility as it occurred in Dallas, Texas...which was a leading center of political conservatism at the time...in the U.S..In 1963 Dallas was a hub of right -wing activity..led by the John Birch Society, the White Citizens Council, Big Dalas also had one of the highest murder rates in the US..It was the home of such right wing characters as H.L.Hunt, multimillonaire oilman,who expounded ultra conservative views in books, pamphlets, a syndicated radio show...Major General (Resigned) Edwin A.Walker...right wing fanatic..relieved of command in 62, by President Kennedy after he refused to cease his indoctrination of his troops with John Birch literature..Ambassador Adlai Stevenson of the U.N. had been cursed and spat upon,and struck by a placard reading "Who Elected You" by a woman Cora Fredrickson, outside the Baker Hotel.. Oct.24/63..in a protest rally staged by Walker's National Indignation Committee....The incident received nation wide attention and darkened Dallas' already tarnished reputation.
Nov.22/63 ...in making matters worse, General Walker, flew the flag outside his home up-side down..a signal of national distress..after the President was murdered he put the flag right side up and refused to lower it at half-staff...a sign of respect..
The day of the assassination Hunt and Walker's....activities are interesting. At 12.23pm the oilman watched down on the motorcade from his office on the 7th Floor of the Mercantile Bank Building...afterward, he was escorted by agents of the FBI, and went directly to Dallas Love Field, and departed on Flight 44..The General ,meanwhile was in an airoplane between New Orleans and Shreveport: when news of the shooting came over the public address system ,Walker became very excited and nervous..He roamed up and down the aisle of the plane ,making sure fellow passengers and stewardesses took note of him ..Walker latter joined Hunt at one of the oil baron's secret hideaways across the Mexican boarder and the pair remained there for a month...under the protection of bodyguards and, reportedly ,the FBI..The Hunt-Walker party did not return to "Big D" till Christmas..Then there were the leaflets ,the notorious "Wanted For Treason"..that were circulating on the streets two days before the President's visit..the leaflets listed seven charges against him...two were.."He has given support and encouragement to the Communist-inspired racial riots."and "He has been lax in enforcing Communist Registration laws,"the leaflets were connected to Walker...Robert A Surrey had them printed and distributed..a business connection of his..
In the Nov.22/63 edition of the "Dallas Morning News" they carried the infamous full-page black-bordered advertisement highly critical of Kennedy..Among those financing the ad were Nelson Bunker Hunt, son of the oilman,and Bernard Weissman, who had served under General Walker in Germany. Sponsorship for the ad was attributed to the American Fact-Finding Committee, which Weissman later testified was" formed strictly for the purpose of having a name to put in the paper.The ad with it's large headline, "Welcome Mr.Kennedy to Dallas"..was followed by a list of critical questions..all to do in some way with pointing the finger at the President for his alleged Communist ties..this ad prompted President Kennedy to remark privately in the Fort Worth Texas Hotel that morning, "We're in nut country now."
Men like Walker and Hunt were displeased to say it mildly with Kennedy's liberal view..and what they called "bleeding heart" actions, in particluar his support for the civil right movement..and his dealings with Russia and Castro..These men genuinely feared a Communist takeover..a fear so intense that sometimes it reached a state of paranoia..and they shed no tears when he was killed..most felt a sense of relief...
Men like Joseph Milteer, who predicted in Florida his death and talked of the blueprint used in Dallas...(an informant making a tape of the conversation)....the rifle, the window, high building and all...he was also in Dallas on the 22nd..and at 10.30am..he telephoned his informant in Jacksonville, Florida..to say that JFK would be visiting Dallas that day, and would probably never be seen in Miami again.He had returned to Florida by the next day and was jubilant at the death of Kennedy, he was interviewed by the FBI on Nov. 27th.denied making any threats about the President, and released and yet two FBI informants had related this information to them...The WC was not aware of the Miami police tape and Milteer's name does not appear within the 26 volumes..The tape was not made public until Feb.2/67 in the Miami News story by reporter Bill Barry.
Did the right wing elements have reasonable motive for assassinating the President.?
Yes! in a perverted sense of patriotism.. arising from their fear of Cummunist-domination of the Western Hemisphere....
Did the right wing possess the power and resources to kill an American President.?
Could the right wing have manipulated a cover-up involving Federal Agencies and authorities ? No..it is extremely unlikely..
Could they have been powerful enough to persuade or command some of the highest officials of the government to perjure themselves before the American public.? No..For instance would a staunch liberal like Earl Warren consent to cover-up evidence of a non gevernmental ,right wing plot....I do not think so, the power of the far right wing simply did not reach high enough into the structure of the governent...they did not have the power to control a man like Earl Warren...
It also would be illogical for the Right to carry out the murder in a center of ultra-right activity like Dallas..thereby imputing blame on the Right...While right wing elements may have been incorporated into the operational stage of the assassination by the planners, responsibility for the murder of JFK lies somewhere other than with the Right Wing...
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The Texas Oilmen..
The late H.L.Hunt has often been mentioned as well as Sid Richardson and Clint Murchison as being perhaps providing the funding..for the assassination operation.
As a rule oil men are staunch conservatives..and their reason for wanting JFK out of office would be similar to the previous reasons given for the right , with two additions...On Oct 16/62 a law known as the Kennedy Act removed the distinction between repatriated profits re-invested abroad and in the case of American Companies with overseas operations. Both were henceforth subject to American taxation .This measure was aimed at American Ind. as a whole ,but it particularly affected the oil companies...which had the largest and most diversified overseas activities...By the end of 62...oilmen wre estimating that their earnings on foreign invested capitol ,which in 55 had equalled 30%, would fall to 15%..as a result of this measure..One of the biggest breaks in taxes for the oilmen was in the depletion allowance a 27.1/2%...tax break....a special provision of the Federal income tax under which oil producers could treat up to 27 % of their income as exempt from income tax..supposedly to compensate for the depletion of oil reserves..( spelling it out, every time they took oil out of the ground, they were allowed to sell it, plus get a kick back from the Governement of 27% on it, because they took it out, and there was that much less underground??)...This gave the oil people a lower tax rate than any other industry .In Jan 63..President Kennedy proposed to Congress that this generous benefit be reduced..With 5 billion dollars in income annually from oil and gas in Texas alone, any reduction would be a sizable figure...Overall, it was estimated that U.S. oil interests would forfeit $280..million dollars a year..if the depletion allowance was deminished ..Of course the idea was not very attractive..so in the Lone Star State ,oilmen would have preferred to see a fellow Texan in the White House..and LBJ was an old and dear friend of "King Oil"...
Did Texas oil think they had a reasonable motive for wanting JFK removed from office ? Yes..to protect it's economics ,not to mention their general displeasure at Kennedy's liberal policies..
Did Texas Oil have the power...and resources to kill a President ?? Obviously it lacked nothing that money could buy...it's wealth could have bought the finest hitmen in the business of assassination..and placed one of Texas' own at the pinnacle of power...Could they have manipulated the cover-up, to some extent ?..No doubt they carried a lot of weight on Captiol Hill and could have and more than likely did influence the Johnson WH to some extent..But, it would have taken much more than money to have bought the FBI ,the CIA, the Military ,the Secret Service and certain high goverment officials...it seems impossible.....
Could they have been powerful enough to have commanded or persuaded some of the highest officials in the land..to perjure themselves,before the American public.?
The oil men lacked this kind of influence to pressure some leaders to lie and conceal the truth...some were too honest and stubborn perhaps, to be bought off...
While some could have provided financial support of the assassination operations , the Texas Oil did lack the power to carry out both phases ...the assassination and the Cover-Up....
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If we ask who gained, with the murder of John Kennedy ,it appears the Pentagon-CIA coalition ended once and for all the threat of civilian control... It had regained it's power that it had lost temporarily during Kennedy's tenure as President..The assassination insured the continuation of the Cold War and brought about a complete reversal of Kennedy's planned US policy towards Southeast Asia.This policy change resulted in an undeclared war..which appears to have served no purpose other than the building up of 220 ?billion dollars in military equipment ..and in turn provided power for the military and wealth for its industrial counterpart..
Did the military-industrial complex have the power to kill it's own Commander-In-Chief..?
Beyond the shadow of a doubt..
The Pentagon was and is the worlds biggest corporation..In 1960 it's assests totalled $60 billion..It owned more than 32 million acres of land in the US, and 2.5 million overseas..It's holdings were twice as large as General Motors, US Steel, A.T & T, Metropolitan Life and Standard Oil of New Jersey combined...Few states and few countries had a budget as large as the Pentagon...One third of the other countries in the World at that time had a smaller population...Couple this with it's industrial counterpart and it was and is utterly staggering....
Completing the make-up of this coalition was the Central Intelligence Agency..
the most effective Assassination machine the world has ever known...The CIA was and is a power in it's own. It's budget was counted in the millions in 1963 and the Agency was not required to account for any of it..It had tens of thousands of employees including " contact agents" "contract employees" who had infiltrated almost every aspect of American life....It was originally created only as an intelligence gathering arm of the President, but we know now that assassination is one of it's foremost specialties. We know it recruits, arms, and trains men to kill foreign leaders.....and it could have just as easily planned and executed the murder of a President...who was in the way...
The assassination of J.F.K. bears every mark of a CIA operation...
1: Create a believable cover story..that would be accepted almost immediately by the mass media and public..Have it at the ready....and distribute it almost immediately..
2: The sacrifice and manipulation of a "scapegoat" or "false sponsor" which detracts the attention from the real killers.( This accomplishes two things...the objective of concealing the motive...and the involvement of government elements.)
3: The precision ambush, utilizing a quadrangulated crossfire....(the perfect spot
Dealey Plaza )..
More than anyone or anything known the Military-Industrial-Complex possessed the power and resources to kill a President.....and get away with it...
How could they cover-up and manipulate Federal agencies and authorities? Who could prolong that cover-up..?..One cannot over-estimate the power and influence of the MIC complex on the White House, Congress and other factions of American government. It's importance was cited in a 1962 magazine article written by the authors of "Seven Days in May"....
"Beyond this new political importance, the military now carries a Big stick...perhaps the biggest ..in the economic life of the nation. Great defense lobbies ,working in behalf of a single service or a certain weapons system, operate in Washington, seeking a bigger bite of that $50 (63) billion spending pie. Retired military officers flood the executive suites of defense industries: a House Armed Services sub-committee found that that more than 1,400 retired officers, including 261 generals and admirals, were employed by the hundred leading defense contractors. Each service has it's own alumni association which seeks to promote it's aims.There have been occasions when a service ,it's association and the defense contractors involved have all joined in a propganda-advertising campaign in behalf of a weapon that competes with a rival service's weapons for defense appropriations .Cases in point: the arguments over the Army's Nike-Zeus antimissile missile and the Air Force's B-70 bomber."
"Much of this pressure finally focuses on individual congressmen and key committee positions or votes. A congressional district generates it's own politico-economic pressures too.In 1961. the Congressional Quaterly listed over 700 defense activities in their districts..And the list covered only Government installations ,leaving aside the long list of private industrial contractors"..Knebel & Bailey.."Military Control Can It Happen Here"..Look magazine 9.11.62..
The Military-Industrial-Complex..more than any one group, and more than anything known...could have exerted the extreme pressure on key individuals in the government to participate in the cover-up using the reason of "national security".
By maintaining it's awsome power ,the coalition has insured the continuation of the cover-up by the Federal Authorities, to this day.....
Who could have been powerful enough to persuade or command some of the highest officials of the government and to purjure themselves before the American public..???
Only the Military-Industrial complex with it's intelligence apparatus ..with it's ability to persuade certain government officials ,by the use of false documents, photographs or other evidence .......for instance that John F.Kennedy had Communist ties or tendencies : the officials could have been told that rather than expose that shocking, ominous information to the public,.. ( which we should recall the Right Wing and the Cuban Eiles were promoting )... it had been decided that murder was the only alternate ....or as they say...." for the good of the country"...
of course..Only the MI complex had the power to command ,where necessary, under whatever explanation, and or threat, certain Federal officials to help perpetuate the cover-up...What one person could or would dare refuse that awesome cartel???
A sobering thought when one finds that the murder of a President could have been planned and executed by a force within the government , and which is more powerful than the goverment itself...so powerful that it can initiate and cover up facts concerning this murder ..Through whatever means it deems necessary .....financial influence , political pressure, or threat of physical harm, or the disclosure of past personal picadillos and secrets ....all is fair in their suppression of the truth...
On Nov. 22/63...this cabal executed a man it considered a criminal...a weak treasonous and incompetent commander-in-chief...(in their eyes).
On April 5/1968, Martin Luther King ..June 5/1968 RFK...and May 15/1972...GeorgeWallace..
brutal force was again used to silence potentially disruptive voices. Tiring of the "blow out their brains" technique ,the cabal returned to character assassination...
This method perhaps claimed it's first victim on July 18/1969 ,at Chappaquiddick Island ...Edward Moore Kennedy...Aug.9/1974, used again to remove another Commander -In-Chief .
Richard Nixon was driven from office : his improbity had been proven beyond any doubt and the cartel felt he no longer served their purpose..
Will Democracy ever recover from results of the decision made by these men in 1963 ?
As in every great Empire of the past, they begin to crumble from within...A Power-mad money-hungry-cabal that kills it's President, stops at nothing...as they do believe they know what is best for the country ,and will never again allow the accidental election to the Presidency of a man such as John F.Kennedy..It is the deprivation of
life to any who opposes them that permits the power-elite to maintain control over the Presidency .In this manner they guarantee their perpetuation of power..
America has accepted nearly 42 years of bloodshed by war and political assassinations ,as well as governmental and nongovernmental sanction of atrocities commited domestically and abroad..It is this type of apathy which has lent license to the cabal's brutal display of awesome force...and They are convinced they can do it again and again.....
Thanks Gary Shaw...and others below...B..
Wise & Ross: "The Espionage Establishment.."..
U.S.Government: "Report of the President's Commission on the Assassination
of President Kennedy".
McGaffin & Knoll: "Scandal in the Pentagon".
Garrison: "A Heritage of Stone ".
Hepburn James: "Farewell America".
Jones Penn: " Forgive My Grief #1V".
Knebel & Bailey: magazine article " Seven Days In May"..
L.Fletcher Prouty:"The Secret Team".
Harold Wesiberg: "Post Mortum"
Fonzi Gaeton: "The Last Investigation".
Warren Report and Hearings ..
"The White House Tapes": Bantam books .
Huffaker,Mercer,Phenix,Wise." When The News Went Live".
Joeston,Joachim: "Oswald :Assassin or Fall Guy."
Manchester,William:"The Death of a President"
Jones Penn:"Forgive My Grief" Vol.111
Bishop,Jim: "The Day Kennedy Was Shot"
From Shaw Gary: "Cover-Up"...
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Thanks Marcel:
No one has ever given us a close up view of the cameras used that day in Dealey..along with all the details and information as you are,not to my knowledge......There has been some written information over the years but not with the complete data, and photos of said Cameras....This work that you have accomplished has been and is much appreciated, by most....
Please continue....and again thanks for all your efforts....
Hope the wee one is doing well and Momma... and you to of course......
B
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Shanet :Thankyou for your thoughts..
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The question has been asked many times...Did the Military kill it's own Commander In Chief.??
Perhaps this isn't so far fetched.
Between the years of 1962 and 1954 there were 16 successful and 12 unsuccess ful military coups around the globe... From WW2 to 1961 there were no less than 27 major military uprisings around the world, that swept away their civilian governments.
Successful: Burma 3/2/62 ,Argentina,3/28/52, Peru 7/18/62,Togo 1/13/63, Iraq 2/8/63, Peru 3/3/63,Syria 3/8/63,Guatemala 3/30/63,Equador 7/11/63, Congo 8/12/63, Dominican Republic 9/25.63,Honduras 10/3/63, Vietnam 11/1/63, Brazil 4/1/64, Laos 4/19/64, Bolivia 11/3/64
Dwight D.Eisenhower was aware that (what he called ) the Military-Industrial Complex was actually running the nation..But not till he was leaving office did he dare voice his concern.." On the councils of government we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought ,by the military-industrial complex."
Then in 1960 there occurred the election of a peace seeking ,idealistic man,a former Navy lieutenant..and for the first time since WW2 the military was perhaps threatened by a President, who as such, intended to execute his role as he saw fit, and search for that peace..
In 1962 the thought of a possible military takeover in the U.S.,was dominant in the minds of many public officials, and it was a widely discussed topic. Much of this had been generated by the best selling novel "Seven Days in May" by Fletcher Knebel and Charles W.Bailey...which later became a popular movie, made at the request of President Kennedy, who wanted it filmed as a warning to the nation..
This book which depicted a U.S President fighting a secret military junta that seeks to seize control of the nation, presented an idea that was taken somewhat seriously in the nation's capitol..In the 15 years since the second world war the military had emerged as the dominant force in the government ,a number of officials ,civilian and former military ,had publicly voiced alarm..over their growing power and influence..In 1961 the Sec.of the Navy in a conversation with one of the authors of the book ruminated on the state of the nation, unknown to him ,his thoughts were amplified and placed in the mind of the fictional President in the popular novel."I'm worried ,up until 1945 an individual could have some feeling even in a world war that he had some control over his own existence. But when that atomic bomb exploded over Hiroshima, something happened .People began to feel helpless....Now, with hydrogen bombs all over the world, the individual feels even more at a loss to help control his own destiny.You can sense the feeling everywhere."......."The Secretary went on to say that in a monolithic state,such as Russia, it doesn't matter much what the individual feels .But in a democracy ,where leaders govern only by the collective consent of millions of individuals, the attitude of the single citizen is crucial.If people no longer believe they can influence events ,he argued, democracy is in danger,and a dictator could take over. There is no magic in the American System. It can be preserved only by millions of citizens working day in and day out to nourish a system that was then 185 years old.But did Americans still work at it? Or, he wondered,were they beginning to give up." ..The man who headed the most powerful peacetime navy in history ,later resigned and returned to his home state and was elected Governor...and so it was that on Nov.22/63...former Navy Secretary John B.Connally became a victim in the six-second ambush that killed President John F.Kennedy....
As Ike had continued on, "the potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exisits and will persist..We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes."
Just two months after taking office Ike's young successor issued a similar warning when he sent Congress his first message on the defense budget " Neither our strategy nor our psychology as a nation, and certainly not our ecomony...must become dependent upon the permanent maintenance of a large military establishment"..... "Our arms must be subject to ultimate civilian control and command at all times, in war as well as peace."....
Did it happen in America ? Did the military establishment covertly gain control of the government reins it had acquired in the latter stages of WW2.?..
It has always been difficult for a democracy to return to that democracy after a prolonged period of a form of dictatorship that always comes with war..It was difficult after WW1, and in some ways it barely made it back.but after WW2 it seems it may not have ..some believe that the military took control, or the reins, of the government during the latter stages of the second world war when President Franklin D.Roosevelt was, tired, very ill, and dying, and with the advent of the Atomic Bomb.
Kennedy himself had considered the possibility of some sort of military coup..In his memoirs Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev tells of a key meeting which occurred during the Cuban Military crisis..with RFK and Ambassador Anatoly Dobrynin..Khrushchev quoted RFK as saying..."The President is in a grave situation. We are under very severe stress..In fact we are under pressure from our military to use force against Cuba......That is why the President is appealing directly to Chairman Khrushchev for his help in liquidating the conflict. If the situation continues much longer,........The President is not sure that the military will not overthrow him and seize power. The American army could get out of control."
In "The Pleasure of His Company"..by JFK's confidant Red Fay he states " We were out on the Honey Fitz again the next day, and the President said he had read "Seven Days In May"..the previous night.He discussed the possibility of such a military takeover very calmly ......"" It's possible. It could happen in this country, but the conditions would have to be just right. If, for example ,the country had a young President, and he had a Bay of Pigs, there would be a certain uneasiness. Maybe the military would do a little criticizing behind his back, but this would be written off as the usual military dissatisfaction with civilian control. Then if there were another Bay of Pigs ,the reaction of the country would be, "Is he too young and inexperienced ?". The military would almost feel that it was their patriotic obligation to stand ready to preserve the integrity of the nation ,and only God knows just what segment of democracy they would be defending if they overthrew the elected establishment." Then as if steeling himself for the final challenge, he continued, "Then, if there were a third Bay of Pigs, it could happen.:...."Pausing long enough for all of us to assess the significance of his comment, he concluded with the old Navy phrase, " But it won't happen on my watch."......Did it??
President Kennedy more so than perhaps any President in the history of the U.S. was in conflict with the military and intelligence combined.At the time of the assassination the interests of the Pentagon and the CIA coincided....as Jim Garrison stated .."the CIA had become the clandestine arm of the military-industrial complex.." Later it seemed that a rift ?? of some sort could have developed, as the Military continued to concentrate it's efforts against Communism in Southeast Asia and the CIA began to broaden it's base of operations and expanded it's power within the United Sates, or was this their plan????
JFK had seen nearly two decades of increasing militarism and he saw the danger that exisited from that excessive power of America's warfare interests in the Pentagon as well as the illegal, covert operations of the CIA abroad and domestically..He sought to place civilian control over both, but in the years after WW2 these two sectors of the goverment had become so powerful that they answered to no one...not even the President.
Briefly:
The Bay of Pigs:Ill conceived, badly executed attempt in Apr.61..to invade Cuba and overthrow Castro..the idea being conceived by Nixon during Ike's administration, and three months after Kennedy had taken office.
Conflict:
Kennedy's failure to provide military support , air cover by US war planes,resulting in the aborted ingression.He incurred both the wrath and the hostility of the Pentagon and the CIA..later he initiated a house cleaning of the Agency and demanded the resignations of, Allen Dulles,( later a member of the WC.).Dep. Director General C.Cabell, (his brother was Mayor of Dallas at the time of the assassination)..Kennedy was quoted as stating he wished "
to splinter the CIA into 1,000 pieces and scatter it to the winds."..He was determined to curb it's power and independence, and discussed plans to place it under the authority of the Attorney General....(who happened to be his brother Robert F.Kennedy.)
The Cuban Missile Crisis:
Aerial reconnaissance photographs showing Soviet long range missile bases under construction in Cuba....90 miles off shore..... a nuclear attack could be launched on much of the US..and the Western hemisphere..at the height of the crisis Soviet ships carrying additional weapons returned to Russian ports..and Khrushchev announced that they would be dismantled..and Armageddon was averted..
Conflict:
For several years the Pentagon along with the CIA had put forth a considerable amount of time, money,and effort outlining and planning the attempted assassination of Castro,and the taking back of Cuba..and to make matters considerably worse after the BOPs disaster had ordered all assassination attempts on Castro concelled and plans for detente were initiated.
The Nuclear Test Ban Treaty:
In Sept.61.The Soviets suddenly resumed nuclear tests, breaking an unofficial test ban that had lasted nearly three years..JFK urged the Russians and Great Britain in a agreement not to conduct tests in the atmosphere..When the Russians did not, Kennedy resumed underground tests....in March 62 after extensive studies of Soviet advances he reluctantly ordered new atmospheric tests ..He announced another conference, in Jun 63 aimed at producing a test ban treaty..on Aug.5/63..after lengthy negotiations the three signed a limited nuclear test ban treaty forbidding atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons...this treaty also forbid no further testing underwater........it was formally ratified on Sep.1/63...and it eased Cold War tensions..
Conflict:
Authorities ,many from the military community appeared before the Senate Committee considering the Treaty in August, to vehemently oppose the President's words of support for the measure..Citing distrust of the Soviets ,the
Joint Chiefs of Staff declared themselves opposed to the treaty "under almost any terms." Their advice was overruled by President Kennedy..
Efforts to End the Cold War:
Situation and Conflict...In 1963 the Pentagon and the CIA wanted deep involvement in Vietnam and their thrust had become almost irreversible.Kennedy by that time had begun to resist this thrust and had changed his earlier decisions recommended to him by the Joint Chiefs of Staff , permitting the US to have limited involvement.He had become convinced by former military commanders , particularly retired General Douglas Mac Arthur,against allowing the US to become involved in a land war with her troops..in South East Asia.In June 63, Kennedy was in deep conflict with his military advisors...he ordered Sec. of Defense
Robert MacNamarra and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Maxwell Taylor to announce from the White House steps ,that all American forces were going to be withdrawn from Vietnam by 1965....By the summer of 63, Kennedy had made his final decision , no involvement in Vietnam....and eventual withdrawl, totally of all US forces ....
This was a fatal decision ...the American warfare machine in Asia had gained too much momentum to be reversed: men more powerful than Kennedy had already decided the policy with regard to Vietnam.....
In what was perhaps his last formal executive order, President Kennedy announced his intentions...to withdraw 1,000......US military personnel from South Vietnam.."Within 72 hours of Kennedy's brutal death :new President Lyndon Baines Johnson completely reversed his predecessor's policy toward Southeast Asia...Following the eulogy for John F.Kennedy in the rotunda of the nations capitol, Johnson met with US ambassador to Vietnam Henry Cabot Lodge and instructed him to return to Vietnam and inform the Saigon government that the United States was going to provide South Vietnam with strong military support .."
The secret build up then began ,the rest is history.....58,000 Americans dead......
300,000 Americans wounded......2 million civilians dead......billions of dollars wasted conducting an immoral, senseless, and undeclared war which was prolonged by the deception of Presidents, Johnson and Nixon by their military advisors.....
Review:
Recall the conditions that would have had to exist for a military coup d'etat in the Unites States.......as outlined by President Kennedy himself........
1..the country would have to be lead by a young President ( Kennedy in fact was at that time the youngest man ever to hold that office.)
2..there would have to be a Bay of Pigs ( this occurred in April,1961.)
3..military criticism of the President would follow.(it did.)
4..if there was another Bay of Pigs ,the military would consider overthrowing
the elected establishment .( the Cuban Missile Crisis may be considered "another
Bay of PIgs.").
5..if there was a third Bay of Pigs it could happen..........(This could be represented by the signing of the Test Ban Treaty against the advice of the Joint Chiefs of staff.)
Therefore the conditions outlined by President John F.Kennedy were approximated during his administration....his decisions on Vietnam......ended with his death.
Information from:
Fletcher Knebel & Charles Bailey .."Military Control Can It Happen Here," Look magazine
9/11/62.
Arthur Schlesinger: "The Imperial Presidency"
President Dwight David Eisenhower: "Farewell Address, 1/17/61
Khrushchev" "Khrushchev Remembers".
Jim Garrison: "A Heritage of Stone."
Wise & Ross " "The Invisible Government".
Branch & Crile "The Kennedy Vendetta.: Harper's 8/75.
Schlesinger: "A Thousand Days".
Elie Abel : "The Missile Crisis"..
Penn Jones: "Forgive My Grief".Vol.IV
Schurmann,Scott & Zelnick:"The Politics of Escalation in Vietnam".
Gery Shaw: "Cover Up"..
B..
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According to Manchester, Gearhart had the football, and he was not left behind at Parkland. Johnson and his men paid no attention to him (I'm sure Johnson knew exactly what was going on and that the Russians had nothing to do with it), but Gearhart took it upon himself to sit on a policeman's lap from Parkland to Love Field.
Manchester says that eyeglasses seen reflecting light from the rear in the photo of Johnson being sworn in are Gearhart's glasses.
Ron
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Hi Ron:
When Gearhart was separated from Johnson, it would not necessarily have been accidentally...It could have been deliberately arranged by the military personnal at the upper level of the plot..They may not have trusted Johnson with the steel
30lb.. suitcase that held the key to a retaliatory attack, perhaps it was imperative that for the first few hours following the transfer of power, that the planners have complete control of all aspects...foreign and domestic.
It is hard to believe the United States was off guard in anyway, within the Pentagon
where total control was concentrated, the high military officials were in command,
they were aware, and prepared for any situation that might arise from foreign or
a domestic source...
In Bishop's book, it contains another revealing incident: "Officials at the Pentagon were calling the White House switchboard at the Dallas-Sheraton Hotel asking who was now in command. An Officer grabbed the phone and assured the Pentagon that Secretary of Defense Robert MacNamara and the Joint Chief of Staff ' are now the President".".......Perhaps because the assassination was on a need to know basis ,the party that called was a low echelon officer who was unaware of what was happening..It was interesting that the communication officer who took the phone to announce the transfer of power was a member of the Presidential party and was fully aware of what was taking place.....
Communications of all kinds seemed to have been deemed important by those who planned and carried out the assassination..Several strange incidents that involved communications in Dallas..Washington...and abroad occurred..that day...
They of course have been attributed to coincidence , but what are the odds.?
In Dallas the police radio was immobilized at 12.29 Channel One of the DP radio system was rendered inoperative when someone within the dept. keyed his radio microphone button for four minutes, making it impossible for any police communication from the kill zone during the critical moments...and immediately afterward.....Channel One was reserved that day for those officers in the security of the President..From 12.29 till 12.33 the only audible sound on the police audio tape is the rumbling of a motorcycle engine...In Dallas the press telephone within the motorcade was immobilized..At 12.34 the radiophone in the press car carrying the members of the wire services was rendered inoperative, also.....In fact a fight broke out between UPI's Merriman Smith and Jack Bell of the AP.Bell finally managed to grab it after Smith has issued the initial report that shots had been fired , but to Bell's dismay, the line inexplicably went dead..
In Washington there was a crucial breakdown of communications when the telephone system ,in the capital went out at approximately 12.33..pm..It was almost an hour before full telephone service resumed ..It was explained ,that it was due to overloaded phone lines, was the Pentagon affected by this shut down??
Abroad, a teletype machine aboard a military aircraft carrying the Cabinet members to Japan began chattering the first report that shots had been fired, there was a moment of panic ,fearing an international plot, and with codes and procedures for such and emergency,Sec. of State Dean Rusk and Press Sec. Pierre Salinger attempted to contact the White House for verification..The did reach the Situation Room but were prohibited from authenticating the data because the "official code book was missing"..from it's special place aboard the plane.
After a futile search the Sec of State was forced to break procedures with coded communications ,Rusk was forced to break the code and communicate with the WH in plain English..
This was not happenstance that the President, the Vice President and six members of the Cabinet were away from the centre of power on Nov.22/63.It seems as though it was by design that Sec. of State Dean Rusk, Treasury Sec. Douglas Dillon, Interior Sec. Stewart Udall, and Labor Sec.W.W.Wirtz, as well as other administration officials like Press Sec. Salinger, were trapped on an airplane over the Pacific at such a critical time..These men perhaps thought they represented the true power of the nation but by all authority that day it belonged to the powerful military chieftans deep within the Pentagon....
As an additive....
In Hawaii on Nov. 21/63 , the day before......shortly after lunch Honolulu time , U.S.Ambassador to South Vietnam Henry Cabot Lodge made a long distance call from the lobby of the Royal Hawaiian Hotel..Now this distinguished diplomat had acces to phones in privacy from his room or the military circuits at no cost....Yet he was seen, according to the Honolulu Star Bulletin, with a stack of quarters in his hand pitting coin after coin into a pay phone??
Mr.Lodge was in Honolulu for a nine hour summit conference on Nam with Sec. of Defence Robert McNamara ,Sec of State Dean Rusk, financial aid chief David E.Bell ,Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Maxwell D.Taylor, Admiral Harry D.Felt, and General Paul D.Harkins, then the Commander of U.S.Forces in Vietnam..
Lodge was the only person of the seven member policy-making body to stay at the Royal Hawaiian Hotel.....the others stayed in the military quarters.
This group of high level political and military policymakers had just decided to step-up military operations against communist insurgents in Nam.
This desicion was in Direct Conflict with Presidentt Kennedy's announced intention
of Oct.63..to withdraw 1000 U.S.military personnel from Sth.Vietnam, reducing U.S.troop strength there to approximately 14.500..
Three days later Lodge met with the new President and was instructed by LBJ to return to Vietnam and inform the Saigon government of the new U.S policy pf strong military support for South Vietnam..
But from Washington......on the afternoon of Nov. 22/63......somewhere high over the United States, the new President Lyndon Baines Johnson and the passengers aboard AF 1....received the news that the assassination had been performed by one individual and no conspriacy existed.....The news came not from the scene of the crime,Dallas.....but from Washington D.C....specifically, it came from either McGeorge Bundy or Commander Oliver Hallet in the Situation Room of the White House Communications Agency...........manned by military personnel and receiving much of it's information from the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) in the Pentagon.....
and Last but not least there was in the air over the U.S a mobile military force able to be thrown into action anywhere in the U.S where needed.......if trouble developed..The largest peacetime airlift in history had taken place, Operation Big Lift....had moved an entire combat division from Texas to Germany for thirty days just one month previous.....On the day of President Kennedy was killed, the last third of the returning troops were in the air at the time of the shooting...estimated to be a brigade combat team armed with personal weapons, which could have been deployed anywhere into action, in the nation on a very short notice.....if perhaps needed.....
But this was of course all coincidence, if not then it was an indication of the careful planning undertaken by the Military ......That day in Dallas.....
From:
The Day Kennedy Was Shot....Jim Bishop
Dallas Radio Tapes..11/22/63
The Death of a President....William Manchester
Forgive My Grief IV...Penn Jones
The Making of the President...Theodore White
Cover-Up.........Gary Shaw
B
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Another....
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Don:
Here is one other, the third is too big, to post....so will send by email.
B
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""Do you, or anyone else, have any photo(s) captured from the
TOP north sewer, looking east-north-east across the grassy knoll, towards
President KENNEDY's Zf-313 Elm Street location point?""
Hi Don:
These may be of interest...
B..
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Donald Wayne House and Kenneth Wilson...
Anytime Dixie...
b -
""The Lansdale story is endless. What people do not do is study the entire environment of his strange career. For example: the most important part of my book, "The Secret Team", is not something that I wrote. It is Appendix III under the title, "Training Under The Mutual Security Program". This is a most important bit of material. It tells more about the period 1963 to 1990 than anything. I fought to have it included verbatim in the book. This material was the work of Lansdale and his crony General Dick Stillwell. Anyone interested in the "JFK Coup d'Etat" ought to know it by heart. ""
**********************
Letter to Jim Garrison from Colonel Prouty:
March 6, 1990
Dear Jim,
It is amazing how things work, I am at home recuperating from a major back operation (to regain my ability to walk); so I was tossing around in bed last night...not too comfortable...and I began to think of Garrison. I thought, "I have got to write Jim a letter detailing how I believe the whole job was done."
By another coincidence I had received a fine set of twenty photos from the Sprague collection in Springfield, Mass. As the odds would have it, he is now living just around the corner here in Alexandria. Why not? Lansdale lived here, Fensterwald lives here, Ford used to live here. Quite a community.
I was studying those photos. One of them is the "Tramps" picture that appears in your book. It is glossy and clear. Lansdale is so clearly identifiable. Why, Lansdale in Dallas? The others don't matter, they are nothing but actors and not gunmen but they are interesting. Others who knew Lansdale as well as I did, have said the same thing, "That's him and what's he doing there?"
As I was reading the paper the Federal Express man came with a book from Jim, that unusual "Lansdale" book. A terrible biography. There could be a great biography about Lansdale. He's no angel; but he is worth a good biography. Currey, a paid hack, did the job. His employers ought to have let him do it right.
I had known Ed since 1952 in the Philippines. I used to fly there regularly with my MATS Heavy Transport Squadron. As a matter of fact, in those days we used to fly wounded men, who were recuperating, from hospitals in Japan to Saigon for R&R on the beaches of Cap St Jacque. That was 1952-1953. Saigon was the Paris of the Orient. And Lansdale was "King Maker" of the Philippines. We always went by way of Manila. I met his team.
He had arrived in Manila in Sept 1945, after the war was over, for a while. He had been sent back there in 1950 by the CIA(OPC) to create a new leader of the Philippines and to get rid of Querino. Sort of like the Marcos deal, or the Noriega operation. Lansdale did it better. I have overthrown a government but I didn't splash it all around like Reagan and Bush have done. Now, who sent him there?
Who sent him there in 1950 (Truman era) to do a job that was not done until 1953 (Ike era)? From 1950 to Feb. 1953 the Director of Central Intelligence was Eisenhower's old Chief of Staff, Gen Walter Bedell Smith. Smith had been Ambassador to Moscow from 1946 to 1949. The lesser guys in the CIA at the time were Allen Dulles, who was Deputy Director Central Intelligence from Aug. 1951 to Feb. 1953. Frank Wisner became the Deputy Director, Plans (Clandestine Activities) when Dulles became DDCI. Lansdale had to have received his orders from among these four men: Truman, Smith, Dulles, and Wisner. Of course the Sec State could have had some input...i.e. Acheson. Who wanted Querino out, that badly? Who wanted HUKS there?
In Jan 1953 Eisenhower arrived. John Foster Dulles was at State and Gen Smith his Deputy. Allen Dulles was the DCI and General Cabel his deputy. None of them changed Lansdale's prior orders to "get" Querino. Lansdale operated with abandon in the Philippines. The Ambassador and the CIA Station Chief, George Aurell, did not know what he was doing. They believed he was some sort of kook Air Force Officer there...a role Lansdale played to the hilt. Magsaysay became President, Dec 30, 1953.
With all of this on the record, and a lot more, this guy Currey comes out of the blue with this purported "Biography". I knew Ed well enough and long enough to know that he was a classic chameleon. He would tell the truth sparingly and he would fabricate a lot. Still, I can not believe that he told Currey the things Currey writes. Why would Lansdale want Currey to perpetuate such out and out bullxxxx about him? Can't be. This is a terribly fabricated book. It's not even true about me. I believe that this book was ordered and delineated by the CIA.
At least I know the truth about myself and about Gen. Krulak. Currey libels us terribly. In fact it may be Krulak who caused the book to be taken off the shelves. Krulak and his Copley Press cohorts have the power to get that done, and I encouraged them to do just that when it first came out. Krulak was mad!
Ed told me many a time how he operated in the Philippines. He said, "All I had was a blank checkbook signed by the U.S. government". He made friends with many influential Filipinos. I have met Johnny Orendain and Col Valeriano, among others, in Manila with Lansdale. He became acquainted with the wealthiest Filipino of them all, Soriano. Currey never even mentions him. Soriano set up Philippine Airlines and owned the big San Miguel beer company, among other things. Key man in Asia.
Lansdale's greatest strategy was to create the "HUKS" as the enemy and to make Magsaysay the "Huk Killer." He would take Magsaysay's battalion out into a "Huk" infested area. He would use movies and "battlefield" sound systems, i.e. fireworks to scare the poor natives. Then one-half of Magsaysay's battalion, dressed as natives, would "attack" the village at night. They'd fire into the air and burn some shacks. In the morning the other half, in uniform, would attack and "capture" the "Huks". They would bind them up in front of the natives who crept back from the forests, and even have a "firing" squad "kill" some of them. Then they would have Magsaysay make a big speech to the people and the whole battalion would roll down the road to have breakfast together somewhere...ready for the next "show".
Ed would always see that someone had arranged to have newsmen and camera men there and Magsaysay soon became a national hero. This was a tough game and Ed bragged that a lot of people were killed; but in the end Magsaysay became the "elected" President and Querino was ousted "legally."
This formula endeared Ed to Allen Dulles. In 1954 Dulles established the Saigon Military Mission in Vietnam...counter to Eisenhower's orders. He had the French accept Lansdale as its chief. This mission was not in Saigon. It was not military, and its job was subversion in Vietnam. Its biggest job was that it got more than 1,100,000 northern Vietnamese to move south. 660,000 by U.S.Navy ships and the rest by CIA airline planes. These 1,100,000 north Vietnamese became the "subversive" element in South Vietnam and the principal cause of the warmaking. Lansdale and his cronies (Bohanon, Arundel, Phillips, Hand, Conein and many others) did all that using the same check book. I was with them many times during 1954. All Malthuseanism.
I have heard him brag about capturing random Vietnamese and putting them in a Helicopter. Then they would work on them to make them "confess" to being Viet Minh. When they would not, they would toss them out of the chopper, one after the other, until the last ones talked. This was Ed's idea of fun...as related to me many times. Then Dulles, Adm. Radford and Cardinal Spellman set up Ngo Dinh Diem. He and his brother, Nhu, became Lansdale proteges.
At about 1957 Lansdale was brought back to Washington and assigned to Air Force Headquarters in a Plans office near mine. He was a fish out of water. He didn't know Air Force people and Air Force ways. After about six months of that, Dulles got the Office of Special Operations under General Erskine to ask for Lansdale to work for the Secretary of Defense. Erskine was man enough to control him.
By 1960 Erskine had me head the Air Force shop there. He had an Army shop and a Navy shop and we were responsible for all CIA relationships as well as for the National Security Agency. Ed was still out of his element because he did not know the services; but the CIA sent work his way.
Then in the Fall of 1960 something happened that fired him up. Kennedy was elected over Nixon. Right away Lansdale figured out what he was going to do with the new President. Overnight he left for Saigon to see Diem and to set up a deal that would make him, Lansdale, Ambassador to Vietnam. He had me buy a "Father of his Country" gift for Diem...$700.00.
I can't repeat all of this but you should get a copy of the Gravel edition, 5 Vol.'s, of the Pentagon Papers and read it. The Lansdale accounts are quite good and reasonably accurate.
Ed came back just before the Inauguration and was brought into the White House for a long presentation to Kennedy about Vietnam. Kennedy was taken by it and promised he would have Lansdale back in Vietnam "in a high office". Ed told us in OSO he had the Ambassadorship sewed up. He lived for that job.
He had not reckoned with some of JFK's inner staff, George Ball, etc. Finally the whole thing turned around and month by month Lansdale's star sank over the horizon. Erskine retired and his whole shop was scattered. The Navy men went back to the navy as did the Army folks. Gen Wheeler in the JCS asked to have me assigned to the Joint Staff. This wiped out the whole Erskine (Office of Special Operations) office. It was comical. There was Lansdale up there all by himself with no office and no one else. He boiled and he blamed it on Kennedy for not giving him the "promised" Ambassadorship to let him "save" Vietnam.
Then with the failure of the Bay of Pigs, caused by that phone call to cancel the air strikes by McGeorge Bundy, the military was given the job of reconstituting some sort of Anti-Castro operation. It was headed by an Army Colonel; but somehow Lansdale (most likely CIA influence) got put into the plans for Operation Mongoose...to get Castro...ostensibly.
The U.S. Army has a think-tank at American University. It was called "Operation Camelot". This is where the "Camelot" concept came from. It was anti-JFK's Vietnam strategy. The men running it were Lansdale types, Special Forces background. "Camelot" was King Arthur and Knights of the Round Table: not JFK...then.
Through 1962 and 1963 Mongoose and "Camelot" became strong and silent organizations dedicated to countering JFK. Mongoose had access to the CIA's best "hit men" in the business and a lot of "strike" capability. Lansdale had many old friends in the media business such as Joe Alsop, Henry Luce among others. With this background and with his poisoned motivation I am positive that he got collateral orders to manage the Dallas event under the guise of "getting" Castro. It is so simple at that level. A nod from the right place, source immaterial, and the job's done.
The "hit" is the easy part. The "escape" must be quick and professional. The cover-up and the scenario are the big jobs. They more than anything else prove the Lansdale mastery.
Lansdale was a master writer and planner. He was a great "scenario" guy. It still have a lot of his personally typed material in my files. I am certain that he was behind the elaborate plan and mostly the intricate and enduring cover-up. Given a little help from friends at PEPSICO he could easily have gotten Nixon into Dallas, for "orientation': and LBJ in the cavalcade at the same time, contrary to Secret Service policy.
He knew the "Protection" units and the "Secret Service", who was needed and who wasn't. Those were routine calls for him, and they would have believed him. Cabell could handle the police.
The "hit men" were from CIA overseas sources, for instance, from the "Camp near Athena, Greece. They are trained, stateless, and ready to go at any time. They ask no questions: speak to no one. They are simply told what to do, when and where. Then they are told how they will be removed and protected. After all, they work for the U.S. Government. The "Tramps" were actors doing the job of cover-up. The hit men are just pros. They do the job for the CIA anywhere. They are impersonal. They get paid. They get protected, and they have enough experience to "blackmail" anyone, if anyone ever turns on them...just like Drug agents. The job was clean, quick and neat. No ripples.
The whole story of the POWER of the Cover-up comes down to a few points. There has never been a Grand Jury and trial in Texas. Without a trial there can be nothing. Without a trial it does no good for researchers to dig up data. It has no place to go and what the researchers reveal just helps make the cover-up tighter, or they eliminate that evidence and the researcher.
The first man LBJ met with on Nov 29th, after he had cleared the foreign dignitaries out of Washington was Waggoner Carr, Atty Gen'l, Texas to tell him, "No trial in Texas...ever."
The next man he met, also on Nov 29th, was J. Edgar Hoover. The first question LBJ asked his old "19 year" neighbor in DC was "Were THEY shooting at me?" LBJ thought that THEY had been shooting at him also as they shot at his friend John Connally. Note that he asked, "Were THEY shooting at me?" LBJ knew there were several hitmen. That's the ultimate clue...THEY.
The Connallys said the same thing...THEY. Not Oswald.
Then came the heavily loaded press releases about Oswald all written before the deal and released actually before LHO had ever been charged with the crime. I bought the first newspaper EXTRA on the streets of Christchurch, New Zealand with the whole LHO story in that first news...photos and columns of it before the police in Dallas had yet to charge him with that crime. All this canned material about LHO was flashed around the world.
Lansdale and his Time-Life and other media friends, with Valenti in Hollywood, have been doing that cover-up since Nov 1963. Even the deMorenschildt story enhances all of this. In deM's personal telephone/address notebook he had the name of an Air Force Colonel friend of mine, Howard Burrus. Burrus was always deep in intelligence. He had been in one of the most sensitive Attache spots in Europe...Switzerland. He was a close friend of another Air Force Colonel and Attache, Godfrey McHugh, who used to date Jackie Bouvier. DeM had Burrus listed under a DC telephone number and on that same telephone number he had "L.B.Johnson, Congressman." Quite a connection. Why...from the Fifties yet.?
Godfrey McHugh was the Air Force Attache in Paris. Another most important job. I knew him well, and I transferred his former Ass't Attache to my office in the Pentagon. This gave me access to a lot of information I wanted in the Fifties. This is how I learned that McHugh's long-time special "date" was the fair Jacqueline...yes, the same Jackie Bouvier. Sen. Kennedy met Jackie in Paris when he was on a trip. At that time JFK was dating a beautiful SAS Airline Stewardess who was the date of that Ass't Attache who came to my office. JFK dumped her and stole Jackie away from McHugh. Leaves McHugh happy????
At the JFK Inaugural Ball who should be there but the SAS stewardess, Jackie--of course, and Col Godfrey McHugh. JFK made McHugh a General and made him his "Military Advisor" in the White House where he was near Jackie while JFK was doing all that official travelling connected with his office AND other special interests. Who recommended McHugh for the job?
General McHugh was in Dallas and was on Air Force One, with Jackie, on the flight back to Washington..as was Jack Valenti. Why was LBJ's old cohort there at that time and why was he on Air Force One? He is now the Movie Czar. Why in Dallas?
See how carefully all of this is interwoven. Burrus is now a very wealthy man in Washington. I have lost track of McHugh. And Jackie is doing well. All in the Lansdale--deM shadows.
One of Lansdale's special "black" intelligence associates in the Pentagon was Dorothy Matlack of U.S. Army Intelligence. How does it happen that when deM. flew from Haiti to testify, he was met at the National Airport by Dorothy?
The Lansdale story is endless. What people do not do is study the entire environment of his strange career. For example: the most important part of my book, "The Secret Team", is not something that I wrote. It is Appendix III under the title, "Training Under The Mutual Security Program". This is a most important bit of material. It tells more about the period 1963 to 1990 than anything. I fought to have it included verbatim in the book. This material was the work of Lansdale and his crony General Dick Stillwell. Anyone interested in the "JFK Coup d'Etat" ought to know it by heart.
I believe this document tells why the Coup took place. It was to reverse the sudden JFK re-orientation of the U.S. Government from Asia to Europe, in keeping with plans made in 1943 at Cairo and Teheran by T.V. Soong and his Asian masterminds. Lansdale and Stillwell were long-time "Asia hands" as were Gen Erskine, Adm Radford, Cardinal Spellman, Henry Luce and so many others.
In October 1963, JFK had just signalled this reversal, to Europe, when he published National Security Action Memorandum #263 saying...among other things...that he was taking 1000 troops home from Vietnam by Christmas 1963 and ALL AMERICANS out of Vietnam by the end of 1965. That cost him his life.
JFK came to that "Pro-Europe" conclusion in the Summer of 1963 and sent Gen Krulak to Vietnam for advance work. Kurlak and I (with others) wrote that long "Taylor-McNamara" Report of their "Visit to Vietnam" (obviously they did not write, illustrate and bind it as they traveled). Krulak got his information daily in the White House. We simply wrote it. That led to NSAM #263. This same Trip Report is Document #142 and appears on page 751 to 766 of Vol. II of the Gravel Edition of the Pentagon Papers. NSAM #263 appears on pages 769-770 (It makes the Report official). This major Report and NSAM indicated an enormous shift in the orientation of U.S. Foreign Policy from Asia back to Europe. JFK was much more Europe- oriented, as was his father, than pro-Asia. This position was anathema to the Asia-born Luces, etc.
There is the story from an insider. I sat in the same office with Lansdale, (OSO of OSD) for years. I listened to him in Manila and read his flurry of notes from 1952 to 1964. I know all this stuff, and much more. I could write ten books. I send this to you because I believe you are one of the most sincere of the "true researchers". You may do with it as you please. I know you will do it right. I may give copies of this to certain other people of our persuasion. (Years ago I told this to Mae Brussell on the promise she would hold it. She did.)
Now you can see why I have always said that identification of the "Tramps" was unnecessary, i.e. they are actors. The first time I saw that picture I saw the man I knew and I realized why he was there. He caused the political world to spin on its axis. Now, back to recuperating.
L. Fletcher Prouty
http://www.prouty.org/garrison.html
http://www.prouty.org/main.html
http://www.ratical.com/ratville/JFK/USO/chp3_p1.html
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That's not the photo I referred to. The photo is on p. 495 of the book Pictures of the Pain. I would post it but I don't have a scanner. (Ron Ecker)
Is this the one you refer to, Ron? I take it the possible Lansdale figure is the man on the far left?
James
In this photograph one can see clearly that the western entrance to the TSBD, through the shipping department, was wide open. I've noticed this before in some of the films. Even so, I don't remember a single person testifying that that door was ever closed or blocked off. When Billy Lovelady discussed this door in his WC testimony it was clear the WC counsel--was it Belin?--had no idea this door existed, and the discussion quickly changed course. Here was an effective escape route. Walk right out the shipping department into the crowd. A year or so ago I read the WC testimony of every DPD officer who went to the building, and I don't remember one of them discussing this door. If anyone has better pictures of it, or if anyone knows of testimony indicating this escape route was blocked off, I'd appreciate it.
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Pat:
This shows you the back of the TSBD......the shipping dock area..it may be of some help...Taken in 1963....credit Scott Myers..
In all I have ever read there was one DPD stationed at the back door entrance, before the assassination..but no name was mentioned...
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Just to throw another comparison into the mix, the Dealey Plaza man does appear to have a similar stance/gait to Lansdale (on the left). There also seems to be strong similarities in body shape.
FWIW.
James
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Hi James:
Here is another from my folders..to add to your collection, a photo of Gen.Lansdale, that I believe is a good comparison..the lankiness, and showing the gait of his stance..also his hair does seem to be of the same style and length..Also I recall that Colonel Prouty also stated he recognised the ring..and wasn't there something about the twist of the hand (not sure)??? as well as others noting the ring ? but I cannot recall any details right now..
Hi Ron:
I believe the timing may be out re the comparison of the man in the photo taken by Murray approximately within the next 20 minutes after the assassination he states, in "POTP"..pages 494..495.....of the photo of the dirt Street of Elm, that went towards the front door of the TSBD..and Houston St........where we see your man.( he also seems to not have the bearing (military?) of the man they call Gen.Lansdale, ( in the Tramps photo) ( your man seems to slump
)...and...The series of Tramps photos were taken sometime after 2.19 pm..page 550 "POTP"..by Smith, Beers and Allen..
So unless he walked down towards the TSBD and Houston at approximately
ten to one for Murray to photograph him....and then turned around and walked back again in the other direction, approximately 2.19 pm...?? well it is possible..but I am wondering if he perhaps had been one of the many to have already checked out the Knoll..parking lot..and was simply heading home ..??.......
..you are the one who wrote....""Does not Ruby's involvement demonstrate Mafia involvement in the assassination? ""
that IMO was a clean up job, and not by Castro or Mafia.........there also is that document from the NA, that the Cuban Army and Navy were put on alert the evening of Nov. 23/63...If Castro had killed JFK, with any help, they would have surely been put on alert before not after the assassination..
New FBI Intelligence Service
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
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Whoa a minute Tim:
Greg gave his opinion, he has that right...""The George Bush Center For Being A Jackass With A Nearly Illiterate Son Who Will One Day Be President And An Even Bigger Jackass" must have been too wordy.""
You gave your opinion......""Takes one to know one, Greg. In my opinion these crude commnents merely reflect badly on your intelligence. Any kid can call names. Grow up!""
""The problem with many of you is you just don't get it. Which is why your candidates routinely lost.""
Now Tim you have used a lot of names in a derogatory way since you joined this Forum....so don't be the kettle that calls the pot, burnt arse, it really doesn't fit.......We all know Bush is a Republican.....and you seem to think they are above reproach.....that's fine, that's up to you.....but others are not, therefore apparently do not want to ,nor see him in the same light, and that is their right...
Here have another cone and cool down again.....
B..