Bernice Moore

The media had orders to take him down?

That's strange. In fact, the media was at Jim Garrison's beckon call.

Like he said, if I listen to you all, "black is white and white is black".

*************************************************************

Why was the media at his beckon call.? See for yourself.....the why..

"The Media, the CIA and the JFK Assassination"

In the JFK case, we find many journalists were serving two masters - the press and the FBI or the CIA, depending on which journalist you are talking about. For example: Jack Anderson, famous for his 'breakthrough' investigative journalism, briefed the FBI after talking to Jim Garrison. He told the FBI Garrison had quite a case, and was quite serious in his efforts. [FBI document from 4-4-67, referenced in Unreliable Sources] But what did Anderson tell the American public? That it looked like the president had been killed in what might have been a Communist plot!

During the Garrison investigation, worried about public opinion, the CIA sent out this operational memorandum instructing media assets how to respond to critics of the Warren Commission's lone assassin verdict. Instructions include trying to associate critics with Communists, and trying to insinuate that the critics are only in it for money (neither of which has any bearing on reality, if my own experiences are worth anything!)

Leading the charge against Jim Garrison, District Attorney for New Orleans in Louisiana, when he attempted to prosecute Clay Shaw along with others on the charge of conspiracy to assassination President Kennedy, was Saturday Evening Post writer James Phel an. Like Priscilla, Phelan proved to be serving two masters. While ostensibly working as a journalist, Phelan was also informing to the FBI on Garrison's case, sending them copies of documents from Garrison's case files. Here are a couple of FBI documents on Jim Phelan:

Jim Phelan FBI documents

http://www.webcom.com/~lpease/media.htm#Wh...s%20the%20Truth

"The CIA's Interest in Garrison's Case"

Once Garrison started looking into the case, people affiliated with the CIA kept popping up over and over. Garrison came to believe the CIA had direct involvement in the assassination. Garrison's interest in the CIA was returned in kind. This file from the Assassination Archives in Washington demonstrates the CIA's keen interest not just in the defendent Clay Shaw, who had covert security clearance to operate with the CIA, but in a man solely called to testify about the impossibility of the "single bullet theory".

That Counterintelligence Director for the CIA Jim Angleton would find it necessary not only to spy but to work with Hoover's FBI in an attempt to dig up dirt on this innocent man's background is key to understanding the nature of (and perhaps reason for) the CIA's intense interest in wrecking Garrison's case.

Angleton Spying on Garrison's Witness

http://www.webcom.com/~lpease/collections/...fk/garrison.htm

"Media Distortions"

When JFK was assassinated, Dan Rather was a small town TV newscaster in Texas. It was he who, immediately after viewing the Zapruder film, reported to all America that John Kennedy's head was "rocketed forward" by the head shot.

The Zapruder film then vanished into TIME/Life's vaults, never to be publicly seen until the Jim Garrison trial subpoenaed it, and Dan Rather leapt to network status.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/LIE/lie.html

"Mockingbird"

""An example of particularly shabby scholarship and unacceptable

behavior is George Lardner Jr's contribution to the Post's campaign

against the movie. Lardner wrote three articles, two before the movie

was completed, and the third upon its release. In May, six months

before the movie came out, Lardner obtained a copy of the first draft

of the script and, contrary to accepted standards, revealed in the

Post the contents of this copyrighted movie (*68). Also in this

article, (*69). Lardner discredits Jim Garrison with hostile

statements from a former Garrison associate Pershing Gervais. Lardner

does not tell the reader that subsequent to the Clay Shaw trial, in a

U.S. Government criminal action brought against Garrison, Government

witness Gervais, who helped set up Garrison for prosecution, admitted

under oath that in a May 1972 interview with a New Orleans television

reporter, he, Gervais, had said that the U.S. Government's case

against Garrison was a fraud (*70). The Post's 1973 account of the

Garrison acquittal mentions this controversy, but when I recently

asked Lardner about this, he was not clear as to whether he remembered

it (*71).""

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/P...ockingbird.html

""I only wish the press would allow our case to stand or fall on its merits in court. It appears that certain elements of the mass media have an active interest in preventing this case from ever coming to trial at all and find it necessary to employ against me every smear device in the book. ""...Jim Garrison

Jim Garrison, whether we agree with all or not, was the only official within the Unites States to ever

bring anyone, to trial for being involved in the Assassination of President John F.Kennedy..

The man named Clay Shaw, alias Clay Bertram, upon information found in documents that were later released,

was also proven to have been a C.I.A. employee....

Had this information been allowed, as it should have been at the trial....Jim Garrison

would have had a conviction, as it was the proof, that connected, Clay Bertram,

to the assassination dealings....Clay Shaw was Clay Bertram....

B..

Just a thought...

...if Oswald was firing a rifle from the 6th floor , how did he know that Bill Shelley was standing in front of the building? He obviously couldn't see him from the 6th floor...so if Oswald couldn't see him, how did he know Shelley was there, to claim to have been standing with him? And it's not as if Oswald got to look at any of the photographic evidence before he was questioned by Fritz.

So how did he know who to claim he was standing with, and where...if he was the 6th-floor shooter?

Sometimes it's those damn trees that hide the forest, isn't it?

*******************************************

Mark, that is a very good observation, and I believe this is another of those darn trees....

When LHO was sitting on the first floor having his lunch, Jarman according to his own

testimony, along with Norman, went out the front entrance of the TSBD, I believe this

was also noted by Shelley,perhaps others ?

They then proceeded to the corner of Houston St, turned left and walked down the side of

the TSBD building,and around to the back,and re-entered the building by the rear door...

..LHO noticed them and mentioned this fact.

Jarman and Norman then went upstairs to the fifth floor..and joined Williams,

to watch the motorcade.

If LHO was on the sixth floor, preparing all for the assassination, he would not have

seen the activity of Jarman and Norm and their re-entering by the back door...LHO never

had the oppotunity to see anyof the statements either..

B..

The questions of the difference between the Wiegman and the Altgens

photos, frames, are not new....I posted this information and a good discussion

followed over a year ago on jfkresearch.....I still question the differences..

I once read, years ago, and of course now I have no

idea of where, that the Altgens had been doctored, and that ,that

altering,when proven would prove that Lee Harvey Oswald,

was where he said he was standing..out front with Bill Shelley as

stated to Will Fritz..that bit of information I

never forgot.

I thought I had a bit more information

saved, but at present this is all I could find..If I do I will post such..B..

David Wiegman:

"We were in that straight-a-way heading down to what I now know as

the Book Depository, and I heard the first report and I thought like every

body that it was a good size firecracker---a cherry bomb .Then when I

heard the second one, the adrenaline really started pumping because

there was a reaction in the motorcade, I was sitting on the edge of the

(car door) frame,which I sometimes did. I keenly remember right after

the incident that my feet were on the ground during one of the reports.

I don't think I was fast enough to react to the second, but I think on the

third one I was running.

The car had slowed down enough for me to jump out. I swung my leg

over and jumped while the car was still moving, but it was very slow.

I jumped and I remember running and I remember the third shot.

When I got out I knew I better get around the corner. The car was

stopping. I'd better run around there and see what was happening. I

knew the reaction was to run forward. I'd done this before in other

motorcades because a lot of times the President will stop and do

something. He might just shake a hand. He might look at a sign.

So your doing no good sitting in your car, and you can always

retrieve your car as it goes by....It was a technique I've used and

I've gotten some good pictures that way. That may have been built

in to get out and run and get up there and see what the heck's

happening . The motorcade has stopped, plus you heard a report

I don't think I thought on the first or second ( shot ), but when the

third one went off, I really thought I felt the compression on my face.

----I really thought I felt it. The I thought "Somebody is shooting".

The idea of turning on the camera, I don't know where that came

from. Iv'e turned in some real sloppy work over the years that

went into editing because I believed that sometimes your not

photographing what's happening as much as the moment. It's a

slice of time. And something told me, "hey look, what have I got to

lose. I've got a full spring and just turn it on." I can't stop and plant

my feet, so I put it against my chest because you can't run with a

Filmo up to your eyes. So I just slid i tdown under my chin and

looked forward and ran as fast as I could and took in everything I

could."

Telephone interview Wiegman, 3/11/89..P.O.T.P...Trask..

pages 371-372.

..........................

He was in the Press car 1."the reel car"

the first with photographers aboard..A yellow 1964 Chev.Impala

convertible.

The President's Lincoln..The Queen Mary.SS...L.B.Js ...

SS..The Bell Telephone press pool car ..then the Press #1 Car..

(Wiegman's). Along with Atkins,Craven,John Hoefen,( Wiegman's

sound man..Front seat driving a Texas Ranger..then Cleve Ryan

then Wiegman on the passenger seat in the sixth car behind the

President..

He was carrying a Filmo movie camera,used no handle,

shot with left eye finders on left side of camera.Wide angle lens,

He thought he used a 10mm.that day..

Worked for NBC..TV cameraman..White House attachment every

day for 8 years..37 years old..

.........................

"It would appear through careful analysis of this film, and aided in

research done by Richard Sprague and Gary Mack ,on the timing

of the sequence, that Wiegman began filming

A LITTLE OVER THREE SECONDS:....

prior to the President BEING HIT IN THE HEAD".

Gary Mack 's,"Coverups!"..9/1982..p.2-5...9/1985, p.1-2..

Letter Richard Sprague to Robert Cuttler, 10/31/1982.

..........................

"Wiegman probably first pressed his camera trigger just after

the second shot."..clip.."begins as Wiegman's car is approaching

the TSDB, while the telephone car infront begins making the

left hand turn.".." shows various spectators on the steps of the

Book Depository as well as others on the sidewalk..Many are

looking forwards towards the presidential vehicle while some

are gazing back at the vehincles coming in their direction."

.Trask..p373

.......

In the film we see, the film begins with a panning of the front

entrance of the TSBD,swings to the left, then back to the right,

he then was on his way to the knoll,and behind the fence...see.

the film at below...click, Wiegman, then when page loads, click top

right hand corner button....ta da..

http://www.jfk-online.com/films.html

.................................

We have Wiegman capturing the TSBD entrance approximately

"A little over three seconds" prior to the President being hit in

head."..see above..Sprague..Mack..

........................

From: "Murder In Dealey Plaza"..Dr.James Fetzer..

P.34...ALTGENS...

"An Associated Press photographer ,James Altgens, has

stationed himself at a vantage point on Elm Street across

from the Texas School Book Depository Building to photograph

the Presidential motorcade as it passes through Dealey Plaza

and heads onto the Stemmons Freeway.

Altgens captures the President on film in a now-famous shot

taken WITHIN TWO SECONDS of the impact of the bullet that

STRIKES J.F.K's HEAD."......

And the controversy begins about whom, L.H.O or Lovelady

is pictured in his shot....in the entrance of the T.S.B.D...

I am seeing niether..I see a dark complexioned with a white

shirt on standing where Lovelady or Oswald were suppose to

be standing...in Wiegman..??

.............................

Now how can this be???

If Wiegman's frame of the TSBD entrance...taken approximately

THREE SECONDS

before the President is hit in the head by a bullet..

And Altgen's photo shows the entrance of the TSBD...taken

approx.TWO SECONDS before the President is hit in the head

by the same shot.........

Then is Altgens doctored..?????....as the people in the

entrance way are not similar, not even close..

They could not move in that one second to such a degree.

We have discussed before the possibility of Altgen's being

altered, now please have a read, of all, and see the film clip

and comparison below, of the TSBD Entrance

Altgens...approx.TWO Seconds before the shot to the head...

then Wiegmans..approx THREE Seconds before the shot

to the head.??......Bernice Moore

.................................

B

Dear Gary Mack.....

Thanks for the Love note.....expected, and always appreciated.

So nice to hear from you, it has been a little while...

But you must empty your Forum email. it is full.

Therefore you cannot receive what I wrote in reply,

nor email from any others ...will send privately.....

Thankyou so very....here have one..

B....

May I ask you gentlemen, a few questions, please?

How many of you, have actually read Madeleine's book?

How many of you have compared what Mr. Perry states in his article to the exact information given in said book...?

And how many have done any actual research on Madeleine Brown's information....?

I have and Madeleines Brown's basic story is very true, and through the years, more and more of what she

gave us, has and is being backed by further research into all involved in her story...

But carry on with all your guesses, and I think's, it does look very good on such a group of intelligent men..

Dave Perry is a contrarian.. and seeminging has enjoyed the twisting of her given information...

BTW, she knew this would happen, and said as much. But she felt her information, perhaps would help

researchers such as yourselves.. apparently it has not...

Please do not ask for my information, it would be a complete waste of time ...to post such..on my part.

Who would want to,when your attitude is thus.. and you apparently have already made up your minds..

What Jack White says is very true....so like it or lump it.. I fully agree....

Do your own research, and stop with the I thinks... when you do not know...and have not done your

own...Baiting does not work... Mr. Carroll.

B....

" To put that in a nutshell,

A. JFK was Killed by a Conspiracy.

B. That Conspiracy was covered up by Elements of our Government & National Media.

C. They Both Witheld Evidence, Lied & Destroyed Evidence. (in over a dozen instances)

D. ALL of which are Felonies called "Obstruction of Justice.

I Usually advise people that on matters of Importance, Never take anyone's word for anything. (incl. Mine)

I Usually inform people that Until I read the 26 volumes I never knew for SURE which side was Lying to me.

In my next post I will offer Proof of "Z" Film Alteration.

To follow along you will need the 26 volumes or comparable CD Roms.

OR, HSCA volumes or comparable CD Rom.

All I need do is learn how to use this Forum.

Thanks, tomnln

"

I will look forward to reading your next posts on this topic.

Learning how the forum works is something I hope to figure out too.

I see lots of neat features being applied by other members, like the different colored text, which makes it easier for me to follow their exchanges.

I hope you won't let a few negative responses dissuade you from any further postings of your thoughts.

Chuck

******************

Welcome Tom:

I have also read your posts on the USNET....

Do not pay any attention to those who do not want to understand, and do not want to learn....

but who are very capable of easily jumping to conclusions with their suppositions....and in this case

before any or even a part of your information has been presented......they are an old story....carry on...

I also look forward to your upcoming posts.....

B..

Bernice, you failed to quote the most pertinent passage in the article with respect to Torbitt's allegations about Osborne as a master of assassins.

"At some point 'one of the conspirators (in the Buddy Floyd murder),' according to Torbitt, gave 'pertinent information' to 'Bill Allcorn, special assistant Attorney General of Texas' who helped work on the Floyd case. What this accomplice allegedly revealed was the existence of the 25 to 30 professional assassins kept in Mexico, with the contact man for employing them being John Howard Bowen, reachable through the owner of the St. Anthony Hotel in Laredo. 60

"In sum, then, any evidence that Osborne led a group of 25 to 30 assassins is not to be found in any trial transcript from the Buddy Floyd murder case (Sapet v. State, 256 SW2nd 154), but rather, according to Torbitt, in the 'Bill Allcorn private file' on that case."

I don't consider what some unnamed informant allegedly told lawyer Bill Allcorn, who allegedly buried the info in a 'private file,' to be evidence of anything. If Allcorn, his heirs, or some enterprising researcher were to dig this alleged info out of that alleged private file after all these years and share it with the world, then that could be of significance.

Ron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

*******

Hi There Ron:

I failed to post 99% of that site.....much too long to post all on the F,

as you are well aware...

I do not throw any of the "Babies out."...nor ignore them ,as we never know

what may be dug out in the future..

You seem to, well, that's your perogative..

It would be grand but we are never going to obtain all the

documents ,evidence and such in this case ,too much has been deliberately

destroyed...and lost ..IMO..

I hope you enjoy..Bill Kelly's researched article, which I believe I

supplied to Robert, as he does seem to have an open mind and be

interested in all....

Such a pleasure...to try to chat with you...

B

Well ,sheesh then Ron, burn all the books, and crash all the sites...

and then we wouldn't have to discuss anything, we would all have

the same opinion, Yours.....

B..

More sensational is the claim, made in several books, that Osborne managed or was the contact man for a group of assassins in Mexico, some of whom were used in the murder of JFK. Penn Jones, the pioneer JFK researcher who did not always substantiate or document his statements, wrote in Forgive My Grief IV that “the old man” among the three “tramps” arrested in Dealey Plaza used the name Albert Alexander Osborne as well as Howard Bowen, and “was thought to be the ‘House Mother’ of a group of American assassins stabled in Mexico at that time.” 44 In their book High Treason, Groden and Livingstone quote this passage from Jones’s book, though there is no evidence to support Jones’s statement about the older tramp, whoever he might have been.

In Kill Zone, Craig Roberts states that Osborne reportedly ran “the ZR/RIFLE facility in Oaxaca, where “according to one informant, 25-30 professional assassins were trained and housed” 45 He says that according to Marita Lorenz, “the CIA people” involved in the assassination (being, in Lorenz’s story, Frank Sturgis, Orlando Bosch, and other anti-Castro operatives) “left Dallas and traveled clandestinely to a ranch in Mexico” (“probably,” Craig states, the aforementioned assassins facility) “to hide out until after Christmas.” Craig’s cited source is “Statement made in a deposition by Marita Lorenz. Plausible Denial, by Mark Lane, pg 303.” But there is no reference on page 303 or on any other page in Lane’s book about Lorenz mentioning in her deposition or elsewhere any clandestine trip by the Dallas team to a ranch in Mexico. Nor does Lorenz refer to any such trip in her own book Marita. 46 Frank Sturgis told Gaeton Fonzi, investigator for the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA), that he knew exactly where he was on the day after the assassination. He was in Miami: “I had FBI agents all over my house.” 47

Craig’s cited source on Osborne is the Bo Gritz book Called To Serve. According to Gritz, the older tramp arrested in Dealey Plaza “is thought to be Albert Osborne” (thought by whom?), “the leader of a CIA execution-action triangular-fire rifle team, based at the time near Oaxaca, Mexico.” 48 Gritz cites no source, but similar claims about Osborne are made in Dope, Inc., a book published by the research organization of Lyndon LaRouche. In 1941, according to this work, FBI director J. Edgar Hoover, Sir William Stephenson of Britain's wartime Special Operations Executive (SOE), and SOE officer Louis Mortimer Bloomfield created a secret assassination unit under the direction of Albert Osborne, a minister of the American Council of Christian Churches (ACCC) and Hoover’s “trusted agent of thirty years.” 49 (Craig also states that Osborne “posed as a missionary with the American Council of Churches” [sic]. 50 In fact Osborne was ostensibly a Baptist minister, his missionary work, as such, seems to have been associated with Baptist churches, and none of the Osborne-related FBI reports refer to the ACCC, a right-wing organization headed by Carl McIntire and Texas oilman H.L. Hunt and with which the Southern Baptist Convention was not affiliated.) 51 The book by the LaRouche group states that “it was Osborne and a team of seven expert riflemen from the Puebla ‘kill unit’ who carried out the (JFK) assassination.” 52 The book attributes this information to “the author ‘Torbitt.’” This brings us to the so-called Torbitt Document, and perhaps to the original source of the story of Osborne as the leader of a group of Mexico-based assassins.

William Torbitt was a name used by the late David Copeland, a Texas attorney whose clients included JFK researcher Penn Jones. 53 Torbitt’s manuscript entitled Nomenclature of an Assassination Cabal (“The Torbitt Document”) began circulating in 1970, and is presently published as NASA, Nazis & JFK. This work boils the JFK assassination down (or should I say up?) to a bewildering conspiracy involving (in layered degrees of participation) almost everyone you’ve ever read about in the assassination literature, starting at the top with Johnson, Hoover, Bloomfield, and a secret U.S. government agency called the Defense Industrial Security Command (DISC). 54 According to Torbitt, Osborne’s stable of professional assassins was kept at “Clint Murchison’s huge ranch” in Mexico. 55 Torbitt again associates Osborne with the “espionage cover group” ACCC, and says that working with Osborne, and also using the name John Howard Bowen, was DISC agent Fred Lee Chrismon (sic). Chrismon, says Torbitt, was “a Syrian immigrant” who had been “closely associated with Osborne since the 1920s,” and was the oldest of the three Dallas tramps. 56 (Fred Lee Crisman was born in Tacoma, Washington, in 1919. He was not Syrian and was only a child in the 1920s. The HSCA found that Crisman [misspelled Chrisman in the committee's report] bore a strong resemblance to the older tramp, but was teaching school in Rainier, Oregon, on the day of the assassination.] 57 According to Torbitt, Osborne was in Dallas with about ten of his professional assassins, including William Seymour (shooting from the Texas School Book Depository building), Emilio Santana (a shooter in the Dal-Tex Building), and Manuel Gonzales (sic) (firing from behind the Grassy Knoll fence). 58

http://www.hobrad.com/osborne.htm

Osborne, alias John Howard Bowen, was discovered to have another person working with him who also used the alias John Howard Bowen. The second person also traveling as Bowen was Fred Lee Crismon, another agent for the munitions makers police agency, the Defense Industrial Security Command. Crismon also posed as a missionary and also used other aliases. Among the cognomens for Crismon were Fred Lee, Jon Gould and Jon Gold. Osborne and Crismon also bore a marked resemblance and appeared to be about the same age. Crismon was a Syrian immigrant and had been closely associated with Osborne since the 1920's. Crismon, Osborne and their riflemen charges in Mexico were based at Clint Murchison's huge ranch when not posing as missionaries in other areas of Mexico.

http://www.newsmakingnews.com/lmvoterfraudpart2.htm

The Taking of America....

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ToA/ToAchp5.html

B..

Sorry, having trouble getting in, and more problems

posting, it doubled....

B..

The said Ranch in Mexico, situated southeast of

Mexico city..could have been the ZR/Rifle facility in Oaxaca, that

Marita Lorenz, spoke of, that the CIA people involved (Hunt, Sturgis

and others ....had gone to after the assassination, until after

Christmas..

At this site,according to one informant, 25 to 30 professional assassins

were trained and housed...These men were,according to the source,

issued with Mauser type bolt action rifles.

The facility was reportedly run by a character named

Albert Alexander Osborne, also known as John Howard Bowen .

Osborn as a cover, posed as a missionary with the American Council

of Churches ..

After the assassination ,Osborne was said to have "disappeared" forever.....

B..

Hi Robin:

I believe from shown below the motorcycle

policemen had their helmut straps under their chins, secure....

As shown in Altgens, when they turned, the helmut went

with the head....( also a lightened version)..

B..

Hi Robin:

Yes it does appear to be his fist ..

In Mrs. Kennedy's statement she relates the information, to the effect, not verbatum, that he was bringing or brought his hand

up towards his forehead...

and the expression on his face was like, questioning.

The next moment she saw a piece of his head, come off, but no blood, and detach itself, it appeared white with jagged edges.

It could be that motion that we are beginning to see...?

B

Hi Jim:

I am rusty with the info in Evelyn's book, been awhile since I read it..

and some others pertaining to all this..But here goes....from memory..

She remained with Jackie at Bethesda till very early morning..and Robert

asked her to get to JFK's office early...and I don't believe any slept that

first night..from what many have stated.

Evelyn was there in the office Sat, morning very early...LBJ told her he

wanted everything out by noon, though later from what I have read, he

apparently changed his mind, she had it out by that time..but LBJ did not take

possession of the office till after the funeral..

Robert had sent some, of his men, as I recall over to the President's office

not too long after, he received word of his brother's death...to secure all....as

he remained in Washington...he said something to the effect he did not

want LBJ's men ..

going through them...but he did not state it that nicely.

Robert also ran into LBJ that Sat, morning in the WH, near or in the office,

and there were harsh words, ..I

seem to recall that Evelyn called Robert and let him know what was

going on...

As They were moved out they were then taken to Robert's office, Evelyn

remained there in charge of them..This info is also available in many other

books, her look at LBJ, is very harsh at times, but she was there and she dealt

with him, so.??

B..

Lee:""One step further - Ferrie may have been working for the CIA.""

But Lee he was.!!

You will have to look into the Richard Helms, former head

of the CIA...information.....who in the mid 70's admitted that

Ferrie had ties to the CIA.

....this again was corroborated by CIA agent and author Victor Marchetti ..

see "Coup D'Etat in America "..Weberman, Canfield..page 44..

B

Jim:

Evelyn Lincoln, his secretary secured his private papers and belongings for Robert...she saw to it, that all was moved out and secured..

I seem to recall Robert also had sent others there earlier to change the locks and such..to get there to protect them, he did not want LBJs men in those files..

It seems to me I have read this information.also ,in one of the books relating to Robert....Look into information in her book...there may be some on the web..

B..

I have no idea, why this post above appears as it does....???

Perhaps it is Gillespie's bad vibes, that caused the post to

shudder and make the repeated errors...in duplication..???

But I am glad it has, perhaps by the time, if and when he

does read all, and perhaps repetitively, it just may sink in..

and he just may comprehend.....???

B..

Gillespie, I am not as nice as Dixie Dea is, when riled..and do not take it lightly when you insult any woman, for no reason on this Forum in any thread...I call a spade a spade,you get back what you give out......

and an asshole is an asshole..and YOU are a one...I never mince words..and you have shown yourself to be a Big one...

Gillespie: Quote: "Yesterday I saw perhaps the most outrageous and gratuitous speculation that I have yet encountered. It was on the Tippitt slaying sub-topic of the JFK assassination "debate", posted in January by something called Dixie Dea.

Mr. Dale Myers wrote a very admirable book on this subject - one of the best investigative works I have ever read - entitled "With Malice." Originally, I thought that those placing messages in the wake of the Dea posting would have cringed had they read that book. But then, obviously they WOULDN'T have read the book. They got just what they wanted (Earlene Roberts And The Amazing Honking Horn, among other things..incredible, simply beyond belief!)...after all, sometimes a great notion.

Hey, progressives, listen up! An FBI report (I'll get you the specifics tomorrow) revealed that fibers from the discarded jacket matched fibers from LHO's shirt worn at the time of his arrest. Try this and be done with it: Oswald didn't kill JFK but he DID kill Tippitt. I would have, too, under the circumstances. It was the smart thing to do. Being unable or unwilling to accept that notion tells me there may be an agenda at work. Just a wild guess.

Bernice Moore Today, 07:02 AM Post #14

Experienced Member

Group: Members

Posts: 166

Joined: 12-April 04

Member No.: 632

Gillespie, I am not as nice as Dixie Dea is, when riled..I call a spade a spade,

and an asshole an asshole..I never mince words..and you have shown yourself to be a big one...

Gillespie: Quote: "Yesterday I saw perhaps the most outrageous and gratuitous speculation that I have yet encountered. It was on the Tippitt slaying sub-topic of the JFK assassination "debate", posted in January by something called Dixie Dea.

Mr. Dale Myers wrote a very admirable book on this subject - one of the best investigative works I have ever read - entitled "With Malice." Originally, I thought that those placing messages in the wake of the Dea posting would have cringed had they read that book. But then, obviously they WOULDN'T have read the book. They got just what they wanted (Earlene Roberts And The Amazing Honking Horn, among other things..incredible, simply beyond belief!)...after all, sometimes a great notion.

Hey, progressives, listen up! An FBI report (I'll get you the specifics tomorrow) revealed that fibers from the discarded jacket matched fibers from LHO's shirt worn at the time of his arrest. Try this and be done with it: Oswald didn't kill JFK but he DID kill Tippitt. I would have, too, under the circumstances. It was the smart thing to do. Being unable or unwilling to accept that notion tells me there may be an agenda at work. Just a wild guess.

Check out the Dixie Dea thing, Evman. It is symptomatic of what one must scroll (what a euphemism, that) through: declarative statements absolutely shot from the hip for no other reason than the posters simply WANT to believe them and feel good in the process; those who think they have some sort of license to dispense garbage as if it were wisdom, a la Jack; wild theory put out for its own sake and a bizarre insistence by the practitioner that he or she somehow has a voice to be heard on serious matters. They're up past their bedtimes. "

***************************************

" By something called Dixie Dea."

Quote from your Bio:" My interest in this site lies in respect for those members whose names are known to me and appreciation of the mature approach on the part of the membership as a whole.."........

So, it is so obvious that you have no respect for others whose names are not

known to you.. ?????

Gillespie: Quote "Mr. Dale Myers wrote a very admirable book on this subject - one of the best investigative works I have ever read - entitled "With Malice." "

That is Simply, YOUR opinion...One of a zillion around here...yours is nothing special..keep that in mind..

Gillespie:Quote "Originally, I thought that those placing messages in the wake of the Dea posting would have cringed had they read that book. But then, obviously they WOULDN'T have read the book"..

How do you know that ,They have not read the book, ?? have you asked.them...Mr.Gillespie ??

Also from your Bio."Finally, I believe I have some opinions of substance as well as facts to share. My opinions and facts easily will be discernible in my correspondence.."

If this is a prelude to your opinions,and postings of subtance ...whatever you call it, it is IMO not worth further pursuing any of your posts..as..It is also obvious that you have no respect for others opinions..by attacking such..

Bernice Moore Today, 07:02 AM Post #14

Experienced Member

Group: Members

Posts: 166

Joined: 12-April 04

Member No.: 632

Gillespie, I am not as nice as Dixie Dea is, when riled..I call a spade a spade,

and an asshole an asshole..I never mince words..and you have shown yourself to be a big one...

Gillespie: Quote: "Yesterday I saw perhaps the most outrageous and gratuitous speculation that I have yet encountered. It was on the Tippitt slaying sub-topic of the JFK assassination "debate", posted in January by something called Dixie Dea.

Mr. Dale Myers wrote a very admirable book on this subject - one of the best investigative works I have ever read - entitled "With Malice." Originally, I thought that those placing messages in the wake of the Dea posting would have cringed had they read that book. But then, obviously they WOULDN'T have read the book. They got just what they wanted (Earlene Roberts And The Amazing Honking Horn, among other things..incredible, simply beyond belief!)...after all, sometimes a great notion.

Hey, progressives, listen up! An FBI report (I'll get you the specifics tomorrow) revealed that fibers from the discarded jacket matched fibers from LHO's shirt worn at the time of his arrest. Try this and be done with it: Oswald didn't kill JFK but he DID kill Tippitt. I would have, too, under the circumstances. It was the smart thing to do. Being unable or unwilling to accept that notion tells me there may be an agenda at work. Just a wild guess.

Check out the Dixie Dea thing, Evman. It is symptomatic of what one must scroll (what a euphemism, that) through: declarative statements absolutely shot from the hip for no other reason than the posters simply WANT to believe them and feel good in the process; those who think they have some sort of license to dispense garbage as if it were wisdom, a la Jack; wild theory put out for its own sake and a bizarre insistence by the practitioner that he or she somehow has a voice to be heard on serious matters. They're up past their bedtimes. "

***************************************

Gillespie: "" By something called Dixie Dea."" "" The Dixie Dea thing""

Quote from your Bio:" My interest in this site lies in respect for those members whose names are known to me and appreciation of the mature approach on the part of the membership as a whole.."........

So, it is so obvious that you have no respect for others whose names are not

known to you.. ?????

Gillespie: Quote "Mr. Dale Myers wrote a very admirable book on this subject - one of the best investigative works I have ever read - entitled "With Malice." "

That is Simply, YOUR opinion...One of a zillion around here...yours is nothing special..keep that in mind..

Gillespie:Quote "Originally, I thought that those placing messages in the wake of the Dea posting would have cringed had they read that book. But then, obviously they WOULDN'T have read the book"..

How do you know that ,They have not read the book, ?? have you asked.them...Mr.Gillespie ??

Also from your Bio."Finally, I believe I have some opinions of substance as well as facts to share. My opinions and facts easily will be discernible in my correspondence.."

If this is a prelude to your opinions,and postings of subtance ...whatever you call it, it is IMO not worth further pursuing any of your posts..as..It is also obvious that you have no respect for others opinions..by attacking such..

Who are you ?, may I ask, to imply that according to your standards, they do

not have that right.??? Perhaps the years you spent amongst the CIA, have

corrupted your outlook of that given right, and why have you not given this opinion on that thread, to those that did..Mr.Gillespie?? instead if being hidden away on this one..??..Perhaps where you thought you were safe..??

For your small minded approach please read the following.....it just may enlighten

you and also may I recommend, that at the first opportunity you obtain reading

glasses, so that you see all of what you read, and also attend school so that you will also be taught to read and comprehend all of what is written, not just what you choose to..and also a course from in Manners, would certainly do you no harm.

Ms.Dixie Dea, is not a SOMETHING, Mr. Gillespie. She is a better person, than you are that is so obvious,and she has the same feelings as perhaps on occasion that you may, though after your performance,I greatly doubt that....

I take great offense at the injustice of you calling HER, (and I am not the only one), or and any member of this Forum, a SOMETHING.....In plain language Gillespie, where the hell do you get off, in posting such and INSULT..just who the hell do you think you are...??

You are certainly not a Gentleman, Ha!! That is soooooo obvious , as you do not know the meaning of the word.....

There is an old saying on the Forums, Gillespie..

Do NOT Piss Off The Women.......and that is PLURAL.....

Read and try to comprehend the following, if your small mind will enable you...

Goodbye Gillespie....you are an Asshole..and have proven so...by your posting.....

You owe Ms. Dixie and apology.....a BIG ONE....and David is correct she has

more than likely forgotten much more than you will ever know or be able to

cram into that small mind of yours....Shame on you...your type disgust women on a forum ...You must learn not to ever talk down to them...EVER...

This is you and these are being thrown at you, you insfufferable ass... ..and do not bother

wiping the egg off your face along with them, on you it looks good..

Now pay attention and try ,Gillespie to comprehend...

Bernice Moore...

I am posting the following for Dixie, for all to read, as she has not be able to post messages to the Forum for some time now, she does not know the whys ??

______________________________________

Mr Gillespie...

Sneaky dude aren't you? I do not recall ever posting in this specific

forum, so why would you attempt to malign me here, from a post I did way

back in Jan, on another forum?

The real biggie is that you don't even know what you are talking about.

In fact, it appears that you are intent on descrediting me, because what

I posted didn't go along with Dale Myers.

I reread my Tippit post and do not see where I indicated that any of the

info was my own theory. I also indicated at several points where the

info was obtained.

I am offended by your accusation as well as your apparent desire to bash

me among my peers! Did you actually not see how I began the post and

how I ended it? As a matter of fact, all the information I posted was

new info to me too. Plus, I did not and do not know what part of the

info is true or not. This was intended more in the order of a book

review of Harry Livingstone's latest book. I began by saying:

"According to the Dallas Underground, by several reserchers"

and I ended it by saying:

"Compiled from information in Harrison Livingstone's, The Radical Right

and the Murder of John F. Kennedy....(2004)"

-------------------

Dixie Dea

Who are you ?, may I ask, to imply that according to your standards, they do

not have that right.??? Perhaps the years you spent amongst the CIA, have

corrupted your outlook of that given right, and why have you not given this opinion on that thread, to those that did..Mr.Gillespie?? instead if being hidden away on this one..??..Perhaps where you thought you were safe..??

For your small minded approach please read the following.....it just may enlighten

you and also may I recommend, that at the first opportunity you obtain reading

glasses, so that you see all of what you read, and also attend school so that you will also be taught to read and comprehend all of what is written, not just what you choose to..and also a course from in Manners, would certainly do you no harm.

Ms.Dixie Dea, is not a SOMETHING, Mr. Gillespie. She is a better person, than you are that is so obvious,and she has the same feelings as perhaps on occasion that you may, though after your performance,I greatly doubt that....

I take great offense at the injustice of you calling HER, (and I am not the only one), or and any member of this Forum, a SOMETHING.....In plain language Gillespie, where the hell do you get off, in posting such and INSULT..just who the hell do you think you are...??

You are certainly not a Gentleman, Ha!! That is soooooo obvious , as you do not know the meaning of the word.....

There is an old saying on the Forums, Gillespie..

Do NOT Piss Off The Women.......and that is PLURAL.....

Read and try to comprehend the following, if your small mind will enable you...

Goodbye Gillespie....you are an Asshole..and have proven so...by your posting.....

You owe Ms. Dixie and apology.....a BIG ONE....and David is correct she has

more than likely forgotten much more than you will ever know or be able to

cram into that small mind of yours....Shame on you...your type disgust women on a forum ...You must learn not to ever talk down to them...EVER...

This is you and these are being thrown at you, you insfufferable ass... ..and do not bother

wiping the egg off your face along with them, on you it looks good..

Now pay attention and try ,Gillespie to comprehend...

Bernice Moore...

I am posting the following for Dixie, for all to read, as she has not be able to post messages to the Forum for some time now, she does not know the whys ??

______________________________________

Mr Gillespie...

Sneaky dude aren't you? I do not recall ever posting in this specific

forum, so why would you attempt to malign me here, from a post I did way

back in Jan, on another forum?

The real biggie is that you don't even know what you are talking about.

In fact, it appears that you are intent on descrediting me, because what

I posted didn't go along with Dale Myers.

I reread my Tippit post and do not see where I indicated that any of the

info was my own theory. I also indicated at several points where the

info was obtained.

I am offended by your accusation as well as your apparent desire to bash

me among my peers! Did you actually not see how I began the post and

how I ended it? As a matter of fact, all the information I posted was

new info to me too. Plus, I did not and do not know what part of the

info is true or not. This was intended more in the order of a book

review of Harry Livingstone's latest book. I began by saying:

"According to the Dallas Underground, by several reserchers"

and I ended it by saying:

"Compiled from information in Harrison Livingstone's, The Radical Right

and the Murder of John F. Kennedy....(2004)"

-------------------

Dixie Dea

***************************************

" By something called Dixie Dea." ??? How Dare you.....

Quote from your Bio:" My interest in this site lies in respect for those members whose names are known to me and appreciation of the mature approach on the part of the membership as a whole.."........

So, it is so obvious that you have no respect for others whose names are not

known to you.. ?????

Gillespie: Quote "Mr. Dale Myers wrote a very admirable book on this subject - one of the best investigative works I have ever read - entitled "With Malice." "

That is Simply, YOUR opinion...One of a zillion around here...yours is nothing special..keep that in mind..

Gillespie:Quote "Originally, I thought that those placing messages in the wake of the Dea posting would have cringed had they read that book. But then, obviously they WOULDN'T have read the book"..

How do you know that ,They have not read the book, ?? have you asked.them...Mr.Gillespie ??

Also from your Bio."Finally, I believe I have some opinions of substance as well as facts to share. My opinions and facts easily will be discernible in my correspondence.."

If this is a prelude to your opinions,and postings of subtance ...whatever you call it, it is IMO not worth further pursuing any of your posts..as..It is also obvious that you have no respect for others opinions..by attacking such..

Who are you ?, may I ask, to imply that according to your standards, they do

not have that right.??? Perhaps the years you spent amongst the CIA, have

corrupted your outlook of that given right, and why have you not given this opinion on that thread, to those that did..Mr.Gillespie?? instead if being hidden away on this one..??..Perhaps where you thought you were safe..??

For your small minded approach please read the following.....it just may enlighten

you and also may I recommend, that at the first opportunity you obtain reading

glasses, so that you see all of what you read, and also attend school so that you will also be taught to read and comprehend all of what is written, not just what you choose to..and also a course in Manners, would certainly do you no harm.

Ms.Dixie Dea, is not a SOMETHING, Mr. Gillespie. She is a better person, than you are ,that is so obvious,and she has the same feelings as perhaps on occasion that you may, though after your performance,I greatly doubt that....

I take great offense at the injustice of you calling HER, (and I am not the only one), or and any member of this Forum, a SOMETHING.....In plain language Gillespie, where the hell do you get off, in posting such and INSULT..just who the hell do you think you are...??

You are certainly not a Gentleman, Ha!! That is soooooo obvious , as you do not know the meaning of the word.....

There is an old saying on the Forums, Gillespie..

Do NOT Piss Off The Women.......and that is PLURAL.....

Read and try to comprehend the following, if your small mind will enable you...

Goodbye Gillespie....you are an Asshole..and have proven so...by your posting.....

You owe Ms. Dixie and apology.....a BIG ONE....and David is correct she has

more than likely forgotten much more than you will ever know or be able to

cram into that small mind of yours....Shame on you...your type disgust women on a forum ...You must learn not to ever talk down to them...EVER...

This is you and these are being thrown at you, you insfufferable ass... ..and do not bother

wiping the egg off your face along with them, on you it looks good..

Now pay attention and try ,Gillespie to comprehend...

Bernice Moore...

I am posting the following for Dixie, for all to read, as she has not be able to post messages to the Forum for some time now, she does not know the whys ??

______________________________________

Mr Gillespie...

Sneaky dude aren't you? I do not recall ever posting in this specific

forum, so why would you attempt to malign me here, from a post I did way

back in Jan, on another forum?

The real biggie is that you don't even know what you are talking about.

In fact, it appears that you are intent on descrediting me, because what

I posted didn't go along with Dale Myers.

I reread my Tippit post and do not see where I indicated that any of the

info was my own theory. I also indicated at several points where the

info was obtained.

I am offended by your accusation as well as your apparent desire to bash

me among my peers! Did you actually not see how I began the post and

how I ended it? As a matter of fact, all the information I posted was

new info to me too. Plus, I did not and do not know what part of the

info is true or not. This was intended more in the order of a book

review of Harry Livingstone's latest book. I began by saying:

"According to the Dallas Underground, by several reserchers"

and I ended it by saying:

"Compiled from information in Harrison Livingstone's, The Radical Right

and the Murder of John F. Kennedy....(2004)"

-------------------

Dixie Dea

Here's the thing I dont get, what is Clinton playing at, going to bat for Bush, doesn't he realise these are the guy's that spent eight years trying to shaft him?Can you imagine if the boot was on the other foot, GHW giving Kerry his support, never going to happen. The Democrats should be dancing on Shrub's grave.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here in Dallas there are plans for 25,000 Louisiana refugees to stay here until things become more organized. I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments being expresed on this thread. The mayor of New Orleans who has IMO understandably been in a practical rage over the (PAINFULLY) slow help coming was quoted as saying that maybe the CIA would be coming after him because of his comments so if anything happened to him American's would know what happened. What is most interesting is that the recently announced plan to send 20,000 troops to Iraq to help when the new constitution goes into effect, has been scrapped, because of hurricane Katrina and its tragic aftermath. If there can be a silver lining in this (besides getting these unfortunate people back on their feet and repairing the damage A.S.A.P) it is the possibility that this terrible tragedy may prevent us from invading Iran. I know it sounds ludicrous but I monitor an intelligence website here that talks about it all the time, and I believe that the Neo-Cons are chomping at the bit to "go in."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

*************************

Hi Robert:

The lastest is that only 10 thousand reserves will be leaving for Iraq....

Perhaps that shall put a dent in his plans..somewhat.....??

And they have allowed the Canucks to go in finally with all their offered help..

teams and whatevers..and they have left and are also on their way to help in any possible way they can...I am pleased to say....

Now,when you are in danger, and obviously need all the help you can possibley get, is it not natural to accept help from your neighbors...?? Or could this possibley be Presidential Pride that has gotten in the way ??? and we all know what happens when it does.........crash....

I do not know as yet about the other countrys..offers...

********************************************

Tim:

At least they have finally arrived, after 6 days..Thank them, not him nor his,they are finally doing the job, that now they have been finally sent in to do, and they will do it...no thanks to he whose name is disgusting, and who held them back...who never gave the order....

I listened to Gen. Honare, who is finally in charge, and guess what, he will get the job done, but there was more "damage control" from him, they did get to him mighty quick, they did....wonder when he retires ??

It seems that all Mr. Bush has...are excuses, and trying to do damage control..big time Damage Control..and you shall see more and more of the same thing..put on a smiley face, and deny,deny deny,like What ?? and DUH !! those long blank stares you get back when a member of Government is asked a direct question from the press core....or the shuffle around, the old ,approach it and change it to a different subject, as quickly as possible,another way of denial......as the week-end and the next week progresses, this will get to the point where they hope within a month, people will be saying, slow effort to respond... What do you mean by Slow??

It is not going to work, the brain washing to dumb down the population, nor the rest of the world,not this time.....

I have yet to see him stand up and be a man nor act like a President, never mind him saying ,it's was his lack of action, no, he has said it is Fema's fault..in all this,as he pointed his finger at them...as they and many are pointing now their fingers at each other, and they are.....and that it is all "unexceptaable"" ...and where was he? well he was strumming his guitar at the ranch with the Presidential seal upon it, the day they were drowning in N.O...and his photo was taken, and printed in the papers, and the news sites..instead of making a direct flight back to the WH and recalling all...

What a sorry word, Unexceptable,?? now, after all that has happened, that is the most pathetic word he could have chosen, in a situation like this.....but never fear...the cavalry is here, and he is returning to show all he is still leading them there....

He is returning on Monday to the destruction...for more "damage control"....aw well that is expected, after all Laura also tried to do, the same yesterday, looking clean, starched, fresh and coiffed...and untouchedable....neither hungry nor thirsty, no, Academy Award for either of them two...

She was way out of her league, at practicing any type of such "damage control"..but she did....use the wife when things are getting really bad...always a great plan of action, he is calling up HIS reserves.

As the WH is shocked mind you, Shocked at the criticism they have received, via gov. newspapers,TV, and from the people.....amazing....they might actually feel something...??

Miss Laura stood there while all around her looked so horrendous, and dirty,well she looked so out of place, and in MO was, and is...

Perhaps if they has used a little less hair spray, and allowed such to blow around a little....

This is not going to go away Tim, not for him nor for the rest of his crowd, not this time.....it simply doesn't matter what they nor their press have to say nor their followers...it is too damn late....He dropped the ball big time..and it has bounced all around the world..In charge Bush ?? God help the people..it is the People that are seeing this and the People who are complaining, stop reading just republican literature, and start listening to the People, whose country it is....you happen to be one of them..Do you hear them Do you Hear a Crash.?..I do.....

IMO....

Barf..

B..

Thankyou Houston Texas, and the other cities, and states who have and are taking in, survivors...all the way to Oklahoma..many have arrived...and are being well cared for...

Saturday -- they predicted that Katrina was a category 5, Hurricane, the largest ever to be coming onto shore, somewhere along the coast....she landed late on Sunday at a category 4...The Government.. were also very aware that in 69, a point 3 Hurricane had hit the same general area, and what an enormous toll was paid...It was reported on Saturday as well that the storm surge would be over 20 feet and that N.O is on average around 9 feet below sea level. That makes approximately 30 feet of water. It hit at 29 feet..The levees, have needed work for many years, the governemt of Louisianna has been presenting bill after bill for years to have the Federal Gov, provide funds for the upkeep and rebuilding in some areas, as they when enforced some years ago, were built to with stand a Hurricane of a 3 level...The funds that were to be set aside, by the Federal Gov, for the levees,for the past three and a half years under the Bush Adm..has been used for anything but....and now towards the war in Iraq...

Surely emergency procedures should have begun to be mobilized right there and then......on Saturday..

There should have been hundreds of helicopters taking in soldiers with supplies.Ready to start to move in by Tues.in Mss. and Lou..The military should have been in charge of this mobilization, as they are the masters of logistics....

Soldiers landing first to keep order.. and organize...then proceed after to land

with supplies. Then search and rescue..hundreds,of Helicopters, with scores of Portapotties going in and out on a rotation basis, to try to deffer desease,Small boats ,inflatable, by the hundreds to get people from point A to dry land point B where tents should have been set up.

If Mr.Bush and his government had been invading N.O in order to spread freedom, then he would have had the needed military, plus all equipment..immediately availble..

The helicopters and men were not readily available, because of personal being unavailable, as their being deployed over in Iraq, at a cost of 5 Billion dollars a week..

There could have been and should have been a deployment plan, ready and waiting, as they knew the size of Katrina, and no matter where she was going to hit.... Florida first then New Orleans, Mississippi, and Alabama, there could have been a huge effort to move the residents inland.....Now there is probably a million Louisianans and more than likely as many more from elsewhere, displaced, homeless , without food, water,or bathrooms,

Bush again was on holidays, he has spent 20% of his Presidency at the Ranch..he did not cut them short till Wed, when he finally returned to the White House...

New Orleans, is 67 % black.....50 % are the poor who live at and below the poverty level....subsisting on minimum wage and less..

Most of those did not and have not the monies, to afford a bus ,nor an air transportation ticket.....when the warning came to evacuate, by a Governor, who had not made any contingency plans, for neither the poor, nor the elderly nor the ailing, to be able to leave the city...they were forgotten....the rich and those that were able ,left...There were no arrangements made whatever for those left behind....When Katrina hit, there were only 4,000 reserves in all of Louisianna..

I have watched this tragedy since Mon. on the telly, here safe and dry ..many have cried for the peoples of New Orleans, our help offered all week, from every Province was at first accepted but then one by one the return calls were made, that no we and our teams , who have sat, some since Tues, hydro, telephone, search and rescue, supplies, our Red Cross,would not be allowed in,not till the Federal Gov, and Fema,had made that decision....Our Prime Minister finally got through to Mr. Bush yesterday, he has been told, thanks for the offer, we will probably take you up on some.....today the some has finally been called upon, three frigates, loaded to the gills with supplies, and specialists that will sail to the Gulf, off shore, to help.....I do not know about any of the rest, except that the Red Cross, I heard is on it's way.....There are also many other countries who have offered their help all week, even Shri Lanka ,none were accepted as of this morning...5 days later..perhaps next week..?

Our impression is and has been, that until Fema and Mr. Bush.....finally moved their "arses" as the Mayor of New Orleans, told them last night,on a radio show,and arrived, no one else, was going to make that first impression, no one but he was going to arrive first, for his tour to-day that was all co-ordinated to be at the same time as the "cavalry" finally started to arrive..they have moved out many survivors today since arrival....it has begun..

To-night they still wait, at the Convention Centre, the Dome,on the roads, the overpasses, the streets,and hide from the killers, rapists, and thieves, the "cavalry" have left the streets for the night of darkness, as it is unsafe....they have road blocks so that anyone, who has been walking down the highway to reach where they are camped, at the airfield, cannot get through and have been turned back..there they sit and wait...Geraldo cried on Fox News tonight, at the Convention Centre, where it is packed, filthy,reeking, no supplies,but some water,no washrooms functioning,and one meal today, their first in 5 days.....they are next on the list apparently, is the latest..

The Lou.Coast Guard, did and have done a tremendous job, there were there,and stayed, they have pulled so many from roofs, attics..and saved so many lives.....during the daylight hours.....The Doctors and nurses in the Tulane and Charity Hospitals, and another unamed, who stayed and cared for the very ill, who could not be released, to the streets and the weeks hell, and who kept each other going by administering each intraveinous....as well as to patients, as they also had no water nor food, and were also subjected to break ins at the Hospital's drug supply areas,as the armed drug addicts, raided for anything...

Half the NOPD have deserted, this past week..as they faced unbeatable and unbearable odds, as they have also lost all, and their families as well.....a sign has been made that hangs over the entrance to the Police Station, it reads," Fort Apache"....the rest are still there, trying, being shot at by snipers, and looters, which continues this evening....and the fires still burn also...the gangs this evening in their pickups, loaded for bear, still roam the streets..

The dead are piled in different areas,around the city, hospital stairways, convention unoperating freezers, and on the streets, and overpasses..and floating in the waters....disease had been and is a immediate great concern...the Doctors have been preaching this great possibility all week....the people who were and are trapped in their attics,surrounded by water and have not had the wherewithall, nor strength to have broken out, are still there, alive or dead.....after five full days...and black out nights...in weather that is up to 105 degrees during the day, and the humidity is overwhelming....what is it in an attic....?

While Condi Rice, the Secretary of State , remained on holidays in New York, where she shopped for new shoes in one of the most expensive stores the other day, and was confronted by one brave woiman, who yelled at her, that she aught to be ashamed of herself,for shopping for shoes, while people were dying in N.O., she was grabbed and taken away by the SS..

She then took in the theatre, she was first seen on the TV, this morning, at a news conference, she finally arrived back in Washington from her Holidays....I hope her new expensive shoes rub, and she has blisters from hell....

God,and the powers that be,help the people of New Orleans, who are saying they were abandoned,and still are.... a God Bless for the people for their ingenuity,stamina, bravery,caring,and perseverence amidst all the horrendous tortures of the past week....most have survived and they are and should be such a great example to us all....as none of us know what tomorrow may bring....they must get them all out ,it has to be over soon...it just has to be...

B..

Stephen:

I would like to say I would like to agree also that he is not worth your effort, but I can't, the evidence again, has been soiled in his book deliberatley.. and he has been paid to do so.

He once stated it took him all of I believe 16 months or thereabouts to complete his book.???? Amazing, now there is a quick fix.. these well researched books usually take many years unless, whomever is simply repeating and copying other authors information, from their previously published books..

So IMO, you do not throw the book out, in all books I have found there is some truth, so you use it for your knowledge and to your advantage.. You check all information within out, and see for yourself, it proves one very interesting lesson for us all, and that is that the fix is still in, they are still working on the cover-up...they give themselves away repeatedly..

....This is a good thread, to open the newbies eyes and lead them on the correct path... show him up for what he is and has done..

A paid buffoon...he works very well for the Public Relations of the Warren Commission, and is kept comfortable doing so... the problem is the devil is in the details... and getting those out is like " so dense"..

The media is also a big part of the quick fix, in and out, and so Posner takes the seat for perhaps as much as 15 minutes out of an hour, less commercials, in many of these programs, along with others who trot out to repeat the regular.......... so overdone..

WC correct...lone assassin, "Case Closed"..and ta da......news controlled...that is part of his job and others. Same old.

If you haven't, sometime perhaps, you would read Harold Weisberg's "Case Open"....his rebuttal , he trashes Posner's book..with the truth..

For instance this paid hack never spoke to one Secret Service agent.. He relied on documents ... even though he gives that impression in his book.. he only spoke to some sort of an Administrator of the SS.... nor even Dr. Boswell, let alone James Tague..and on and on.

Thanks, carry on.

B

Harry Dean's CD is available from Rich , JFK Research....in the US...as well as to anyone in any other country.. for a total cost of $5.00.....as most people on here are already aware...This is a very minimal cost...and goes right back into supporting research...

It is well worth this small cost...

Thanks..B

http://www.jfkresearch.com/

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi, Bernice

Sadly the CD and some others have not been available for sometime.Rich dropped about 5 various CDs. But thanks for your kind help though. I always

follow your posts. Later.

Harry

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

**********************

Correct Harry, sorry to say....your's and others are no longer available.

That is a loss, as they contained so much well researched information...and

truth, I am pleased that I do have them...and the minimal cost of $5.00.

Where some other sites charge as much as,at times $25.00 and up..

but they are trying to pass the information along, they say..

and they were made available for years...just to cover the cost and postage...

Our loss..I must have missed the notification when this came about.....

But he still offers much serious research and information..

Thanks, carry on carrying on , a most interesting thread you have going...though

your information has always been...

Regards B..

Lee:

Gerry is correct, that was done many times, to move the crowd back.

There have been studies on such...

BTW..did you get in touch with the Norman Similas family ..??

Am hoping you got some sort of a reply..

B.

David Lifton....... went with his studies in his book,"First Evidence" where no researcher had searched before, and exposed much information that brought all to the attention of those who bothered to study..and find out for themselves..

The Dr.s at Parkland never changed their descriptions nor information they gave re the wounds seen on Nov. 22/63.. However when concluding that area of the HSCA......Blakely, stated that their information concurred with their findings, it did not, they had not changed their testimony...read the HSCA...

The wounds at Parkland were very clearly described by many medical personal,

the wounds as shown and described at Bethesda do not concur..the autopsy photos and xrays being faked, do not show the same wounds as they were described at Parkland that day...

The Secret Service, were in charge of the President from the landing at Love field, through the motorocade, except when he needed them most ....with the exception of Hill ..they stayed with him at Parkland, and left with him, to Love,and on to AF1, they arrived at Bethesda and still remained with him, the autopsy was done at Bethesda by the Military with the SS present, the body was then released finally to the SS, who then drove such to the White House...no one else, had charge of his body..except the SS and the Military....If interested the newest book to read for information on the disclosures in the medical evidence at Bethesda...is William Law's, a well respected researcher of many years. "In The Eye of History"....it is in the witnesses actual words..the interviews with FBI James Sibert and FBI Frank O'Neill, who finally agreed to go on record...are most enlightening..

Dr.David W..Mantik MD,PHD..has written the foreword..

Right now, we are most fortunate to have one of the most brilliant medical brains helping us along the way, in this area of research Dr.David W.Mantik....

David Lifton may have had some areas that have been shown with time to not have been absolutely correct.... in his book, 25 years ago.....but he opened a whole new area of research, as did many of the first researchers..I try never to throw the baby out with the bathwater....there is some fine information in his research and it should be appreciated as so..and nothing personal should ever come into research, that is gossip, and we do not know if it is true or not, and IMO should not even be mentioned nor referred to....and BTW in what book is there not an error...or errors, as later are found or in an article ??? Are we not constantly updating..??

No I am not a Lifton Loyalist, whatever that is.....?? I am just after the truth.. however I do appreciate much of the information that he brought forth that still stands today....as well as so many others, there is much knowledge still to be found amongst the older books, as well as the new....there were undoubtably errors made by the early researchers along the way as well as to-days newest as we will find over time... that is how we learn..

But do your own research and read and come to your own conclusions...don't listen to me..nor to anyone else..IMO..

B

Harry Dean's CD is available from Rich , JFK Research....in the US...as well as to anyone in any other country.. for a total cost of $5.00.....as most people on here are already aware...This is a very minimal cost...and goes right back into supporting research...

It is well worth this small cost...

Thanks..B

http://www.jfkresearch.com/

This was John's last post on the Forum, in reponse to the information being posted by an LNr re the rifle and on other information.....it could be framed, it was so damn good.

He called a spade a spade, and never backed off, he had great courage and knowledge, he and his kind are so needed......he will be very sadly missed for what he freely gave to all..

B

John Ritchson Aug 10 2005, 09:55 PM Post #1

Experienced Member

Group: Members

Posts: 120

Joined: 31-July 04

From: Black Eagle, Montana USA

Member No.: 1078

K.B. wrote:[snip]> Paul, you have any cites to back this up? I am not as knowledgeable as> you when it comes to ballistics etc, and I do not have an expert as> Sam does to call re information John has posted, but I do have a few> books and a bit of experience reloading and I have won my fair share of Turkey-shoots and as far as I have seen, John Ritchson is right on with everything he has posted that I have read. So who are your Carcano enthusiasts?

Greetings, One of the areas Mr. Burke and the rest of the LNers are real short on is authoritive cites in the relevent areas being discussed. Rather, their agenda appears to be one of debasement and denegration as examplified by their references to me as a Faker, Fraud, Cowardly Dog, and Buffoon all in a sophmoric attempt to trivialize and obfuscate the importance of my and other researcher's work in this case. These sort of tactics represent the last resort of those who know in their hearts the essential weakness of their case and are thus reduced to ad hominum, having failed to produce any real rebutal. For the record, I am constantly garnering feed-back and opinions from qualified professionals in the field of firearms ballistics to absolutely minimise any possibility of error before I even post an article.

I also make every effort to clearly separate qualified facts and opinions from speculation and/or guess-work. Occasionaly I will fail in this effort as is the norm, but the body of my work remains intact and presents a damning indictment to those who would perpetuate the LN myth. Looking at the LN contingent, one sees an impressive array of individuals with credentials and qualifications in every area but the field of firearms ballistics, joined at the hip with the spook crew who post from positions of anonymity. Together, they would have us believe they represent a united front espousing the truth of the JFK assassination when in fact they are nothing more than a collection of bags of mostly hot air with about as much substance as a fart inthe wind.

Personally I think they know they have already failed to prevent the truth from coming out and are simply engaged in damage control by saturating this forum with BS in an ineffectual attempt to keep relevent discourse to a bare minimum, as well as using their under-handed tactics to create an unsavory atmosphere whereby new readers will be put off from joining in the discourse. Be that as it may, I'm resolved to undo that sort of mischief, at least as far as the ballistic evidence is concerned, by adding a relevent professional perspective to the JFK case. To that end, I've gained the support of a number of world-class people with impeccable credentials and unassailable reputations in their various fields of expertise. A list of those who have contributed to my work is as follows:

Alan Horst, German action specialist and old world gunsmith who declares that one may spend over a thousand dollars reworking a M38 surplus Carcano and still be left with a hundred dollar gun. [Note:]For a varifiable professional alternative opinion of the WWII M38, Alan can be reached at 406-454-1831. Frank de Haas, who started out in this business as a hobbiest after -WWII and ultimately became a world renown authority on center-fire turnbolt action rifles with the publication of his book, Bolt Action Rifles, which is now an almost universally held reference manual on the subject. He is a contributing editor of The American Rifleman, and has his shop in Orange City, Iowa.[NOTE], Mr. de Haas is now deceased, however his son has taken over the family business.

Richard Hobbs, concidered by many including Carcano historian, Alexander Eichener, as a world authority on the Carcano rifle who after examination of CE-139/C2766 concluded it was in fact, a Moschettieridel Duce Carcano of Mussolini's Gardia del Duce, and not a cheap surplus field rifle that would be sold in a Chicago sporting goods store. [Note:] I believe there is an address and Phone# for Richard posted on Alexander Eichener's Carcano web-site.

Wolfgang Droege, founder of the Shiloh Rifle Manufacturing Co, Big Timber, Montana and creator of the Buffalo Rifle for Tom Selleck's movie, "Quigley Down Under" who also presented a custom 45-70 gold inlayed Creedmoor Rifle to former president Ronald Reagan.[Note:]Even though Wolfgang is not a Carcano expert per se he does make some of the world's most powerfull rifles and anyone who doubts the concept of knockdown power should see one of these rifles in action.

Richard Casull, founder of Freedom Arms, Freedom Wyoming and creator of the world's most powerfull revolver, the .454 Casull Magnum and like Wolfgang Droege has forgotten more ballistics than most people will ever know.[Note:] Dick openly scoffs at the idea firearms lack knockdown power and is more than happy to give critics a taste of the power of his remarkable pistol which performs on par with many rifles.

Wayne Leek, ballistician for the Remington Arms Company and creator of the Fireball XP-100.[Note:] even though Wayne is closed mouthed about the disposition of many of his proto-type XP-100s he is more than happy to expound upon the performance capabilities of one of the world's most powerfull and accurate varmit *HANDGUNS* which BTW, can be fired quite easily from a two-handed combat stance.

Bert Waldron, Sniper(US Army) 113 confirmed kills with a varified cartridge expenditure of 1.3 cartridges per kill, as compared to the world infantry expenditure of 10,000 to 50,000 cartridges per kill.[Note:] Bert can be contacted through the editor of Guns Magazine. Also, he is a quiet and unassuming person and if asked about jet-effect and retro-recoil he will just shake his head and smile, but his eyes speak volumes.

Craig Roberts, sniper(USMC) 26 year police veteran, specialist in sniper and counter-sniper tactics, author of the book, "Kill Zone" which is a professional sniper's perspective of the JFK assassination which blows the LN theory right out of the water.[Note:] I concider Craig a personal friend and collaborator on the JFK case, and I strongly recommend carefull study of his book. Craig can be reached via email at craig@ionet.net, if memory serves.

Carlos(Gunny) Hathcock, sniper(USMC) the Marine Corp's premier sniper with 93 confirmed kills including history's longest single kill-shot of 2,500 meters, nominated for the congressional Medal of Honor for action in Vietnam, former chief instructor of the USMC Sniper's School, at Quantico, Virginia.[Note:] Gunny Hathcock proved the impossibility of the LN scenerio during tests he personally conducted at Quantico and although he is now suffering from MS he is still more than happy to poke holes in the LN scenerio. He can be reached through Craig Roberts.[NOTE], Since the writting of this article the Gunny has gone on his final patrol. God keep you Gunny!!!

Dr. Joel Ham, professor of physics who wishes to keep his school out of the public debate but has proven by demonstratable scientific method the irrelevency of the jet-effect with respect to firearms ballistics.

Dr. George E Miller, professor of physics and supervisor of the nuclear reactor facilities at UC Irvine who is assisting me with my NAA evaluation of the ballistic evidence.

These are some of the people who I concider to be more or less in my corner, who roughly share my views on the subject of firearms ballistics and I urge the readers of this forum to carefully compare these qualified professionals with the collection of political scientists, piss doctors, jet mechanics, computer nerds, wannbes and nobodies that comprise the LN contingent and then ask yourself," Who then is best qualified to address the ballistic issues of the JFK case?" "Who then represents the more credible authority?" "Whose opinions possess the greater validity and are more deserving of serious concideration?" Finally, I want to add that all of the derision, the snide innuendo,the ad hominum lables, the feeble attempts at denegration, the smart-ass remarks and week-kneed mockery heaped upon myself and the other serious researchers on this NG by the LN collection of misfits will not detract me one iota from my agenda and goal of seeing justice done in the JFK case.

Finally, with respect to my own qualifications:

I come from an unbroken line of firearms and ballisticans going back to 1680 when my direct ancestor, Barnett Richardson established the Richardson foundry near Jamestown Virginia.

I was literally raised working at my father's forge and machine shop. I have actually studied

Newton, Julian Hatcher, John Thompson, Helson & Barnes, John Browning, Dave Emory of Hornady,

Vernon Speer, Robert D. Hayden, Ted C. Almgren, Martin J. Hull, and Bill McDonald. As to my forensic qualifications, I encourage all readers to read my petition to reopen the JFK case as a murder investigation. Such should give the readers some idea as to my legal knowledge.

As an avid independent, I quite simply refuse to join any trade organizations all of whom operate from one kind of agenda or another and I refuse to be locked into any such agenda, especially when it involves people like Fackler, Lattimer, Alverez, Oliver and the like.

With Regard:

John Ritchson(SSGT. 499th TC USATC HG US Army Class of 69)

(Gunsmith/Ballistican, [black Eagle, Gunworks]

(and survivor of the SE Asian Games 11Bravo7-Tet 1970)

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The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds

new discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it) but"That's Funny..."

Isaac Asimov

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--------------------

John Ritchson(SSGT. 499th TC USATC HG US Army Class of 69)

(GunSmith/Ballistician,Black Eagle Gun Works)

(Survivor, SE Asian Games, 11BRAVO7,Tet 1970)

************************************************************

The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that

heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it) but

"That's Funny..." Isaac Asimov

******************************************

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...l=John+Ritchson