Bernice Moore
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Posts posted by Bernice Moore
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To make matters more confusing . . .
There was a Jim Braden (according to Mississippi Sovereignty files) that operated out of a building a stonesthrow away from the Jim Braden in the Pere Marquette building. Are they the same person?
EDIT:: is this correct? http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid.htm
"David Ferrie worked out of Room 1707 in the Pere Marquette Building, in New Orleans -- the office of Marcello's attorney, G. Wray Gill. A check of federal records and correspondence showed that in addition to his office in Beverly Hills, California, Brading also shared office space on occasion in the Pere Marquette Building, a few doors away from Ferrie in Room 1701. . . . Room 1701 was the office of an oil geologist, Vernon Main, Jr. Braden received mail at that address, and at one time informed parole authorities that he would be working out of Main's office while he was in New Orleans." ?
Yes ,John that is the same Jim Braden.....B
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Bill:
Stop trying to break the thread.Thank you.
No one is talking about Moorman, stockade fences or cops...???????
B
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"There was the door to which I found no key..
There was a veil through which I might not see."
****Omar Khayam.
For instance:
Eugene Hale Brading alias Jim Braden, true identity not being known till 1969......was an ex-convict ,and was on parole.. he had been given permission by his parole officer to attend to business in Dallas....He was an associate of Joseph Milteer, the ultra right winger leader of numerous racist groups.. who had been in touch with informant for the FBI, William Somersett, in Florida, and stated he had knowledge of the upcoming assassination..of President John F Kennedy..some say Milteer was photographed on Main St. during the motorcade, some dispute..
Braden had been staying at the Cabana Hotel in Dallas with an associate Morgan H.Brown who was also associated with the mob..and Carlos Marcello with connections to Nofio Pecora and James Dolan..
Braden was arrested on the third floor of the Dal Tex building..along with James Powell ,an army intelligence officer who had taken a photo of the TSBD at the time of the assassination...Powell has never been accused of participating in the murder but what he was doing in the Dal Tex along with Braden as it was closed off has never been explained.. (1).
There is said by some, to be as many as 26 suspect individuals in Dealey Plaza on Nov.22/63..the alternate assassin might have been Eugene Hale Brading..here is a hypothesis...
The first bullet that some believed to have been shot hit the curb on Elm St. richocheting and hitting a spectator, James Tague, with a fragment of concrete..he was injured and reported this to the police. (2.)..( While some believe the first shot hit the President in the throat, as seen in the Altgens photgraph)..(There are witnesses who did state that with the first "noise" the President and First Lady seemed to hesitate and look towards each other.)
Col.Fletcher Prouty ,military advisor to the President and author.
" The members of the Warren Commission agreed that a fragment had struck Tague and that Tague's injury was the result of a "near miss"..It said nothing about where Tague was standing .Most readers of the Warren Report assume that Tague was standing close to where the President's car passed on Elm Street...That was not the case,however ,and therein lies another key factor in the ingenious plot to kill the President...Tague was standing on a curb on Main Street, not Elm. One full block away from the President's car. ( If you ) draw a line from the point of impact on that curbstone back to a within a circle with an eighteen inch diameter around the President's head and shoulders ..If we project that line back to some firing point, we have placed that gunman in a window on the second floor the Dal-Tex Building behind the President's car.On the other hand, if we draw a line from that same point of contact with the curbstone back to the alleged lone assassin's lair on the sixth floor of the Book Depository building, we discover that the bullet would have traveled about twenty-two feet above the President's car and as much as thirty-three feet to it's right .Obviously this bullet is hardly a "near miss"..The Path of the Tague bullet reveals that the true location of at least one gunman in Dealey Plaza was in a second floor window of the Dal-Tex building.....The Dal-Tex window is a ideal sniper's location.".(3).
"An assassination researcher ,Howard Donohue, looked carefully at the path taken by the bullet that coursed through Kennedy's brain. His angle suggested it could not possibly have come from Oswald's location ,but was much more likely to have come from directly behind the President : either from the trunk of his car, the Records Building or the Dal-Tex Building ."(4)
The scientific acoustic evidence presented to the HSCA shows also that some of the shots May have come from the Dal-Tex building where Brading was arrested. (5)
Eugene Hale Brading ,who was an ex-con with 33 arrests, was arrested (he was not arrested) found and taken from the third floor of the Dal-Tex within a few minutes of the assassination.....for questioning.. lied to the police about his identity, and was released a short time later....by the DPD..(also (5)
As earlier mentioned, Brading had ties to the right-wing Minutemen ,Earl Schieb and James Milteer were members ,he was also friends with the son of Earl Schieb .Schieb was called by Barney Baker (Teamsters) shortly after the assassination .Baker was a Hoffa goon..and was deeply involved within Mob ativities...and had been released from prison recently...Jack Ruby had also called him, a few weeks before the murder of the President . Therefore, Brading becomes tied in with the Teamsters, the Mob,and also the right-wing Minutemen,
as having connections..and also a third party tie in with Ruby.
The night before the assassination, there was an Army Intelligence Officer Ralph Meyers, who was also checked in at the Cabana Hotel as well as Braden and Brown.....Meyers had a crypto-clearance and had been stationed at a top secret base in Turkey...that makes two Army Intelligence figures, appearing with Brading, one being Powell..the other Meyers, staying in the same Hotel as Braden..and now with two circumstantial linkages do we have Braden linked with Ruby, Minutemen, Mob and Military Intelligence...??? (6)
Braden had an office in New Orleans, that was next to David Ferrie's .A TV Investigative reporter Daniel Schorr put an "Agent X" on CBS...darkened and in silhouette ....the man said he had fought in the hills with Frank Sturgis and Loran Hall...Stating that Hall was in Dealey Plaza on Nov. 22/63 and was part of the assassination that was Directed by Eugene Hale Brading. (7)
Now Brading has also been linked to the anti Castro-Cubans,with Schorr's anonymous informant..
"Prior to the President's murder,H.L.Hunt had publicly announced that the President and his staff should be shot since there was "..."no way to get those traitors out of government except by shooting them out"". Similarly,Hunt's son, Nelson Bunker Hunt ,partially paid for a full page black-bordered advetisement in the Dallas Morning News attacking the President as a pro-communist traitor. The ad appeared on the day of Kennedy's murder and was viewed by many as a "Dallas Greeting".
Beginning as early as the 1950's H.L.Hunt was known to have continuing gambling contacts with Jack Ruby .More importantly, on the day before the assassination Ruby actually went to the Hunt Oil Company building (purportedly to help a young girl obtain a job interview with the Hunts.) The same day in the same Hunt Oil Company building, convicted California
felon James Braden and "three associates"paid a visit to H.L.Hunt's sons, Lamar and Nelson."(8)
Now, do we have Braden connected to the right-wing "big oil" people..?.and do we have him connected in some way to..the Mob ? through the Teamsters and Barney Baker...Carlos Marcello, and Nofio Pecora (and in other text it is said to have had contacts with two mobsters in Dallas, Moceri and Nicoletti. Plus Chauncey Holt who confessed his involvement in the assassination, had ties to the CIA and Mafia...and it is said that Holt had known Eugene Brading )..(9)...James Files who has also confessed to the crime has stated that on the morning on Nov.22 when he met Johnny Roselli ,and Nicoletti in Dallas, that Eugene Hale Brading was also present ..(10)
Braden fits in a right wing plot through H.L.Hunt, Earl Shieb and the Minutemen, yet finds times to connect to anti-Castro Cubans through David Ferrie and Frank Sturgis..
To make matters more confusing Brading links up also with Richard Nixon ...FBI agent John Anderson spoke to Brading in Los Angeles..
"Brading was a charter member of the La Costa Club,located twenty miles south of San Clemente. Financed by the Teamsters and owned by Meyer Lansky's front man, Moe Dalitz . La Costa was frequented by many organized crime figures as well as Nixon's close friend Murray Chotiner. La Costa Club was also where Nixon's aides John Dean ,John Ehrlichman and H.R Haldeman met to get their stories about the Watergate cover-up synchronized"..(11)
"And if desired, Brading can connect to President Johnson as well through H.L.Hunt .Hunt was a very close and personal friend of LBJ's and a major supporter of his bid for the Presidency "..(12) and keep in mind also, the party at the Murchison's that Madeleine Brown attended the evening before the assassination, at which LBJ appeared late, and told her "After tomorrow ,that's the last time those goddamned Kennedy's will embarrass me again."There are now, witnesses to this party information ..a cook, whom a seamstress and a chauffer passed along information to.....plus four independant sources corroborating that the Murchison's party did occurr...(13)
"We have incredible associations ,phenomenal opportunities for guilt by association ,But No Proof of Anything..(14)
"We are lead once again,back to where we started."
"We are in a classic double-bind situation .snip.... there is little evidence to indict or convict anyone for the century's greatest crime..This drama is deeply frustrating ,almost as if it unfolded according to a plan that inherently generates the mystery that foils all attempts to solve it."(15)
IMO: This is where the conspiracy is still being manipulated and controlled..and unfolding according to that plan....
1: Groden & Livingstone: "High Treason."p: 188
2: Moore:"Conspiracy of One".p: 199
3: Prouty: "JFK: The CIA, Vietnam, and the Plot to Assassinate John F.Kennedy." pp: 299-300
4: Menninger: "Mortal Error" p: 78
5: Summers: "Conspiracy" p: 21
6: Kroth: "Conspiracy In Camelot" p: 201
7: Weberman & Canfield:"Coup D'Etat in America".p: 62
8: Zerbel: "The Texas Connection"p: 214
9: Craig & Rogers: "The Man on the Grassy Knoll".pp:193-94
10: West Joe: producer: videotape:"Confessions of an Assassin".MPI
11: Weberman & Canfield: "Coup D'Etat in America".pp:61-2
12: Kroth: "Conspiracy in Camelot" p: 204
13: Jones Penn: "Forgive my Grief 1V"
13: Brown Madeleine: "Texas In the Morning"
13: Turner Nigel:"TMWKK: The Guilty Men"..video tape
13: Harrison,Livingstone: "Killing the Truth"p:486
13:&14: LBJ appointed Warren Com.member John J.McCloy ,also at the party..see www.assassinationweb.com/shack3g.htm.
15: Kroth: "Conspiracy In Camelot" P:199
B..
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page 2..Zapruder and the Autopsy..
McHUGH: I see. There were photographs taken also at that time. Were there not?
BURKLEY: There were photographs taken at various stages, and they are also in the possession of the family. And the only regret I have that I did not ask to have a photograph taken when he had been restored to his near normal appearance. And I may mention here that he was very lifelike in his appearance and there would have been no question of his having been viewed.
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/burkley.htm
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After Dr .G. Burkley’s death, his children were contacted and asked if he had left behind ,any papers related to the death of the President in his belongings. The answer came back no….
Nov.23/63..Death certificate by Dr.G.Burkley..see below..
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It appears that the WC proved it had no intent of establishing a thorough investigation of the President’s death ,very early, but not having the least interest in even contacting the President’s personal physician ,that alone is an impressive
self-indictment.
The document that was treated like the “plague” to the Commission’s already predetermined conclusions…”one it treated like a poisonous snake”..
------was John F .Kennedy’s death certificate---signed by Dr. G. Burkley
The death certificate sheet headed by the words “summary of the facts related to death “-----Places the President Kennedy’s non-fatal back wound “ in the posterior back at about the level of the Third thoracic vertebrae …Recall that Dr.Burkley wrote the death certificate a day before he had received the Bethesda autopsy report..along with the six copies , before the assassination accounting was manipulated and settled upon….(notes..page 415..For Burkley’s Nov.24/63 ,receipt of the official autopsy report ,see ARRB Master Set of Medical Records.).
Burkley’s positioning of the Rear Wound in the Death Certificate was and is consistent with the Parkland Doctors and Nurses reports of said wounds, along with the Dallas Inquest Report signed on Nov.22/63…the press meeting announcement at Parkland as well as the 15 Doctors,3 Surgery Traumatic Nurses ,Television, radio newspaper reports, eye witnesses ,SS agents, FBI observers and Jacqueline Kennedy,,
It is not however CONSISTENT with, nor seen in the ZAPRUDER FILM….film, nor the individual frames from such….
The Dallas Inquest Report…and Burkley’s positioning of the rear head wound that was “signed on Nov. 22/63..at 1pm..states, by Theran Ward justice of the peace ,Precinct Nov.2, Dallas County…
Under the heading “Findings of the Justice” ,it reports the cause of death as “ two gunshot wounds..” one of which was “near the center of the body and just above the right shoulder .”” Ward’s information comes from Dr .Malcolm Perry, This document also destroys the information that the body was not turned over and was therefore they were unaware of JFK’s back wound.. and that the Parkland emergency team never checked such..
Harold Wiesberg also in a interview with” Dr. Charles Carrico of Parkland ,who reported that he ran his hands down the sides of Kennedy’s body to determine whether there was a large wound in the back . Carrico noted that this was standard operational procedure in all gunshot cases..”
(Notes :page 415.”.It should be noted that there are Two Dallas JFK death certificates . The one signed by Theran Ward on November 22/63, it placed the non fatal rear wound “just above the right shoulder “ as sited in the text..A second death certificate signed by Ward on December 6/63..reported that the immediate cause of death was “ multiple gun shots wounds to the head and the neck”….Since the later was issued after the official autopsy report was released the author Gerald McKnight regards this repositioning of the none fatal posterior wound with great suspicion .For copies of these Dallas County death certificates ,see ARRB ,Master Set of Medical Exhibits ,MD 42 and MD 43 ..The HSCA forensic panel chose to site the second Dec.6/63 version od the death certificate in its critique of the official autopsy report because that version was compatible with it’s findings that the report , while sullied by gross errors and deficiencies,had arrived at “correct and valid conclusions”. See HSCA .Mar.79 vol.7,189..see Weisberg interview with Dr. Charles Carrico, Dec. 1/77,Southwestern Medical School ,Univ. Texas ,Harold Weisberg’s autopsy file ,Weisberg archive..”..
John F. Kennedy’s death certificate affected greatly, the Warren Commission’s
Weekend conclusions that a lone assassin had shot and killed the President, from the TSBD…so they therefore ignored and suppressed the report on his wounds.The Death Certificate does not appear in the Report, now the 26 Volumes of Hearings and Exhibits….Ignoring it appears that is was his Assassination after all that generated the 914 page investigative report displayed with almost seven thousand footnotes and a “bodyguard” of 26 stout volumes of more than 10 Million Words…
A two page death certificate threatened to bring down this astounding, regarded as a respectful officially “sanctioned truths and conclusions is a scenario worthy of George Orwell”..
Pages…6-7-167-8-177-8-9-
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A two page death certificate also threatens and shows the Zapruder Film to have been altered, within the head shot scenes within the frames of that film..as seen there is no Rear Head Wound (blown out) within that doctored film..The Zapruder film also threatened in Nov./63 the quick conclusion and pre-concluded findings of the said Warren Report, before any of the reports had been concluded
..FBI..SS..CIA..Medical, etc…
Everything had to support that pre-concluded finding made that week-end..to support one solution, a lone assasin firing three rifle shots from the Texas School Book Depository,the Medical reports, later Testimony, witness statements, films, photos, evidence, documentation, any information pertaining to the assassination….if such did not, it was altered, hidden, ignored or destroyed,all was abused by the government and it’s trusted public organizations that were and had been sworn to uphold the protection of their Commander in Chief and the will of the people..
Those that protect the Zapruder film, protect the Warren Commission and a Government who continues to cover-up the facts…. whether they realize such or ever will admit it to themselves ,they do so…it is their problem…in repeatedly admitting to a conspiracy, but stalwartly continuing to state that the Zapruder film is credible, complete and not altered they therefore give recognition to the WC as being correct, a dishonest Government ,credit for their continuing cover-up, and a controlled media who attributes greatly in that area, and the factual appearance that it is correct to do so….and they help maintain a cover-up of the 43 year slaughter of their President …..
“The bigger the lie”..
Bernice Moore..
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For your information, do with it as you feel you must..
January 12, 2006
Zapruder and The Autopsy...…part..3...Zapruder continued
From .."Breach of Trust" ( and other sources.)
Gerald D.McKnight...2005: University Press of Kansas..Professor at emeritus history at Hood College, Frederick, Maryland.
Harold Weisberg (1913-2002 ) who located his home in Frederick, made all his voluminous records available to Mr. McKnight, as he did to all who asked….on the JFK Assassination .They are now archived at Hood College, he and Clay Ogilvie are now co- director and director of all..It contains approximately one third of a million pages of government documents…that’s about 330,000 thousand papers…just the documents alone…
Harold encouraged him to undertake this work so he was the beneficiary of his unique insights into the crime of Dallas and his unmatchable knowledge of said documentary sources..He was his “Harvard and Yale” in preparing him to undertake this attempt to pose new challenges to the official record of the assassination, of President Kennedy….So Harold’s work continues..and so it should be…..as he was one of the greats…
Harold’s books are available from Hood College,,and are very reasonably priced, as they have been re- printed as student study copies…
“Although the Commission had no authority to classify anything , it classified the transcripts of it’s proceedings “Secret” except when when it classified them “Top Secret”….
“When proceedings were leaked , it was almost always in the form of “authorized leaks”, disclosure of information planted in the media by either the Commission
or the FBI to prepare the public for the eventual release of the official explanation of the Kennedy assassination.” One, Lee Harvey Oswald, lone assassin.
“Most of the fifteen volumes of witness testimony were taken by a staff lawyer, with only a court reporter and the witness present and no member of the Commission in attendance.”
“As a group they were present for less than 20 percent of the testimony of the hundreds of witnesses questioned.” Though all of the commissioners, it is a given, had heavy demands on their time. Except for Allen Dulles..ex head of the C.I.A, fired by John Kennedy…
“Richard Whalen, an early critic of the Warren Commission , astutely noted that the report “tells us too much about too little”.
“Only about 11% of the 912 page report deals with the alleged facts of the assassination.”
The report spends more “ time on the Secret Service and the protection of the President than on the Kennedy autopsy.”
“Most of it is given over to a detailed biography of the alleged assassin”.
“Dulles insisted on this inclusion , and general counsel J. Lee Rankin embraced
Dulles suggestion, noting, “Some of it will be necessary to tell the story and to show why it is reasonable to assume that he (LHO) did what the Commission concludes that he did do”..
“Former Commission counsel Burt Griffin , who worked this section of the report:
“We ducked the question of motive.” years later, then Judge Griffin stated.
“That is not to suggest that everything in the official accounting is wrong, that none of it had been established as fact even without the marvelous machine for establishing truth: scrutiny of evidence and cross examination of witnesses’(?) .But there are countless twists or interpretations on the facts. The Commission had a selective attitude towards testimony. It favored the witnesses who strengthened the case of Oswald’s guilt and discounted or even suppressed testimony and evidence of those who jeopardized the prosecution case the government was building against a dead man” .
One “ Example (to) confirm this assertion. The irreconcilable discrepancy between the FBI report of the Dealey Plaza shooting and the scenario found in the Warren report is a striking example”.
“On the evening of November 22, 1963, when the now president of the United States , Lyndon Baines Johnson ,returned from Dallas to Washington, he placed (his very old and good friend )FBI director J. Edgar Hoover in charge of the investigation. Over the weekend following the assassination the two discussed what would be included in the FBI report. According to an FBI document ,Johnson “ “approved the idea that (the FBI ) make a report showing the evidence conclusively tying Oswald in as the assailant of President Kennedy.”” The president and Hoover had agreed on the “official solution” of the crime before any evidence was tested ,any witness was questioned ,or Kennedy’s remains were interred at Arlington National Cemetery. That Sunday ( November 24/63), LBJ told Hoover he wanted the report on his desk by Tuesday, November 26, Hoover agreed on the timetable and ordered the bureau’s General Investigative Division to “wrap up investigation : seems to me we have the basic facts now.”
( memo: to file ,Inspector J.R Malley, 11/24/1963, Main Dallas JFK Assassination File, 89-43-440. For Hoover’s 11/26/63 memo see appendix A,1 Early Bureau Responses to the President’s Assn., A. Nov. 22/23/64..no.3.
Notes: docs: page 373..
Zapruder Film..
Several days after the assassination the CIA received, from the Secret Service a copy of the Zapruder film. In return for a copy of the film the SS received an analysis of the film from the agency's National Photographic Intelligence Center (NPIC) in Washington. It had the reputation as being the finest photo-interpretation center in the world. The center's interpretation had come to the conclusions, that (1) the first shot had not come from the TSBD.."Sniper’s nest "..And (2) that there had been at LEAST two gunmen in Dealey Plaza shooting at the limo...But the results were supressed..page 6..
The three cartridges found in the TSBD on the 6th floor, corresponded with the time frame dictated within the Zapruder Film...which allows for only three shots from the MC rifle..It took at best a little more than two seconds just to cycle the rifle ,with no leeway factored in for the shooter to keep the scope fixed on the moving target. The manual that accompanied the model determined that all the shooting had occurred within a span of 6.4 to 8.0 seconds. But seeing and having to acknowledge the shot that had hit the curb on the South side of Main St. and wounding, on the cheek, bystander JamesT.Tague..a fourth shot could only be explained by a second gunman, but this was politically unacceptable...
( FBI Manual, Rankin Papers, " Investigation and Evidence"..RG 12, box 8, folder 7.Nara, 14-15.)
The FBI chose to ignore the Tague shot, and the wound in the front of JFK's throat...page 99-100
The CIA uncovered critical evidence in the assassination before the government's official version was agreed upon..and before President Johnson appointed the WC..after the SS turned over a copy of the Zapruder film to the CIA, and the NPIC had completed it's analysis ,it had been discovered that the first shot, according to the film, had come Before Zapruder frame 210.....and a second shot at frame # 242,
just 1.6 seconds after the first shot. All the WC experts agreed that even the most experienced and skilled gunman would require at least 2.4 seconds..the 1.6 second shot interlude meant there had to be more than one shooter..
Page: 151.
(.McKnight’s telephone interview , May 2,2003...with Dino A.Brugioni, the center’s chief analysis who was in charged of the NPICs interpretation of the Zapruder film..( Conclusion that follows are McKnights..not attributed to Brugioni, "When Brugioni turned over to McCone, or Helms the four-photo briefing boards with accompanying memoranda or explanations interpreting the calculations in the document, he had no knowledge of the "Official Truth"..of JFK's assassination that had been decided upon over the weekend..( notes page 406)
See also..Philip Melanson, "Hidden Exposure: Cover Up & Intrigue in the CIA's Secret Possession of the Zapruder Film"..The The Third Decade no.1 ( November 84).9. Melanson makes a strong circumstantial case the NPIC received a copy of the Zapruder Film the day after the assassination"...
Also see CIA document 1641-450 for NPIC's analysis of the Zapruder film..of JFK's assassination These results were pried loose from the CIA by a FOIA request in 82 by Harold Weisberg ..or see Wiesberg's "Photographic Whitewash --Suppressed Kennedy Assassination Pictures"..1967..available at Hood College..pages: 302-303.)
The Warren Report held that the first shot could not have been fired before Z..210..Therefore the analysis and results of the FBI and CIA, of the Zapruder film were ignored....
Therefore imo the Zapruder film also had to comply with the WC and it's findings..
The FBI and Rankin and staff suppressed the findings of the Bureau's photo interpretation of Zapruder's film. It is not certain whether McCone or Helms ever shared with the Commission the NPIC's analysis of the Zapruder film. What the record does show is that the FBI and CIA colluded in the fabrication of a story that the CIA never received a copy of the Zapruder film..until Dec.1964..after the Commission disbanded Hoover told Rankin that in Dec. 64 the CIA requested a copy of the film for training purposes..pages 151-152..
( Hoover to Rankin Dec4/64..Copy of letter appears in Wiesberg's , "Photographic Whitewash." page 143..)
*****"" In my ( McKnight’s) conversation with Brugioni , he was absolutely clear that it was over the week-end following the assassination that McCone requested that NPIC submit the Zapruder film to analysis. Brugioni still recalls his shock when he
witnessed the Fatal Shot That took off the right side of the President’s Head”.
(Notes: page 407)
(The former chief analyst for the center relayed the same account..to the assassination researcher and author Gus Russo, "Live By The Sword"..1998..pages: 339-340..)Notes: page 407)
The work of compiling the medical evidence record of the President's autopsy did not require neither the co-operation of the FBI nor the CIA....so in this area of the investigation the Commissions efforts were not impeded nor distorted..by any investigative dishonesties and or cover-ups perpetrated upon such by the agencies..The WC condoned the sanctioned perjury ,connived, at the destruction of the best evidence ,boycotted key witnesses ,and deliberately and knowingly suppressed materials, medical records and legal documents. The massive corruption of the autopsy records was undertaken with one purpose : To ensure that the Medical evidence in the President's assassination was consistent with the Official Government's version of a Lone Assassin..
"The Overwhelming weight of the evidence supports the view that President Kennedy's official autopsy report was Deliberately Falsified to suppress the fact that he was a victim of a conspiracy."
"It is a joyless irony that the autopsy of Kennedy's alleged assassin Lee Harvey Oswald ,performed by the Dallas County medical examiner ,Dr..Rose ,was worthy of a President. By comparison. President Kennedy received an autopsy unworthy of even the most unfortunate and unlamented derelict.."
page: 153...(For critics and information of the President's autopsy see..... Henry Hurt aptly described JFK's autopsy as "the autopsy of the century" .See Hurt " Reasonable Doubt "..Sylvia Meagher ,"Accessories After The Fact." ..reprint 1992..
David Lifton " Best Evidence" 1981..Harold Weisberg " Post Mortum"..1975..Weisberg's powerful work still remains the most forcefully argued critique of the official autopsy..The official defenders of the President's autopsy whom usually argue that whereas the autopsy had starling deficiencies, it still arrived at the correct and valid conclusions ..such as Gerald Posner.."Case Closed"..1993..David Wobbling "November 22,1963:You are the Jury." 1973..David Belin’s, Wobbling "Final Disclosure"..1988..Denis L.Breo."JFK's Death"..parts 1-3..Journal of the American Medical Association 267 ,no.20 & 268.no.13...and John K. Latimer "Kennedy and Lincoln..Medical and Ballistics Comparisons of Their Assassinations..1980..notes p:407..
Fifteen years after the autopsy of the President a government report revealed that the autopsy had been incompetently conducted, full of gross errors and failures to carry out standard forensic procedures in the investigation of an "unatural" violent death..In 1979 a report by a medical panel of 9 forensic pathologists selected by the HSCA which reviewed JFK's autopsy disclosed some startling facts.
1: That JFK's head wound was incorrectly described. The official autopsy had the wound 100 mill.( 4 inches) lower than the point of entry.( Gerald Ford, who became President moved the wound four inches higher,)
2: The brain that had been lacerated was not properly examined nor sectioned to show beyond a forensic doubt that only the one bullet was responsible for the massive head wound.
3: JFK's extremities had not been X-rayed to make certain that no bullets or fragments were in those areas of the President's body. Had any been found such as in his lower arms,wrists,hands,or lower legs,ankles,feet..would certainly have raised more suspicions of a second shooter..
4: The President's neck wound had not been dissected, and no wound was more controversial...... .it should have been to determine beyond the shadow of a doubt whether all shots had come from the rear..of the motorcade.
5: Lt.Col.Pierre A Finck,US Army..one of the pathologists had been prevented by a superior officer in the morgue from examining JFK's clothing.
pages 153-154.
That there was some truth to the information that Bethesda Naval Hospital was not equipped to do a flawless medicolegal autopsy upon the murdered President's ..Lt.Comdr. J Thornton Boswell ,thought it foolish to have done the postmortem at Bethesda ,as it was largely a "training school for technologists" and lacked the necessary facilities. It was noisy and there were many distractions ,he stated that the only phone was located next to his shoulder, about three or four feet from the autopsy table...and that the FBI and Secret Service agents were constantly on the telephone in conversations...who "stayed on the phone all the time.".Lt.Col.Finck stated there were at least 24 onlookers ,almost all ranking military..it was overcrowded and with continual background noise. All this and them continually interfered with the pathologists work.
John Stringer the navy autopsy photographer said the morgue resembled " a three ring circus"..When the pathologists did not locate the bullet that had caused JFK's back wound, Stringer recalled "some of the military men considered bringing in metal detectors." Adm. David Osborne (then captain) stated that there was a tremendous pressure to perform " a quick post" and "get out of there".
What should have been a very "painstaking methodical autopsy" was a” bungled rush job”. as Dr.Michael M.Baden, a former medical examiner for the city of New York..stated it should have gone on for 8 to 10 hours.,it was conducted under conditions..such as "Amateur Night at Bethesda Naval Hospital Morgue." the overriding pressure was to find the bullets, so that they then could match them to the alleged murder weapon found in the TSBD and the three shells, that were in their posession..this pressure came from the Military Brass in attendance, the Secret Service as well as the FBI..When Dr.James J. Humes ,probed JFK's back wound and his finger failed to find the bullet ,they all eventually followed the idea that it had worked it's way out during cardiac massage performed by the emergency Doctors at Parkland...Humes and all were mistaken because "once a bullet enters the body the track closes behind it, blocking off any possibility of its backing out of the track ." The wound was found, in Kennedy's back "below the shoulders and two inches to the right of the middle of the spine."Hume's error could have been due to the fact that he had never before in his professional career, performed an autopsy on a shooting victim..FBI James W.Sibert (assigned to report back to headquarters and collect any bullets recovered.)made a call..to the Firearms Section of the FBI Crime Laboratory (BuLab) hoping to get some expert advice on a ---"body with a bullet hole and no bullet to be found.".??
Of course in making the call Sibert was informed that a whole bullet had been handed in by the SS from a stretcher at Parkland Hospital..Agent Charles L.Killion told Sibert that the bullet found was a copper-jacketed 6.5 mm rifle bullet that could have been fried from the murder weapon..Dr.Humes felt vindicated and the news of the found bullet literally brought the autopsy to an end..Admiral C.B. Galloway commanding officer of Bethesda had ordered a full autopsy.....when he learned of the stretcher bullet..from Parkland.."he prohibited the autopsy team from dissecting the bullet track in the president's back, an essential and basic requirement in any investigation into an unnatural death by gunshot."..
The autopsy controversies and mysteries could have mostly been averted, if the prosectors been experienced forensic pathologists ,of course they were not, and those in charge knew so.
There were 5 outstanding highly qualified and experienced forensic experts within a one hours flying time of Bethesda..and all a phone call away, these experts, between them had done thousands of medicolegal autopsies and had also given their "expert interpretations of violent deaths in courtrooms or at some other point in the justice system".. no matter they were not called...they all had one thing in common, and that fact was none were in the military and therefore not subject to orders from any superiors...when the President's body was wheeled into the Bethesda morgue, " the military assumed de facto total responsibility for the autopsy..the records,and the final autopsy report..and the morgue was immediately placed under tight security by marine guards and the Secret Service..the only non military in the room were three SS agents..Roy.H.Kellerman..in charge of the WH detail..William Greer the driver of the Presidential limousine....in Dallas..and William O'Leary, and the two FBI agents sent to observe by FBIHQ..James W.Sibert, and Francis X.O'Neill Jr. whose records on the attendance were not complete.......the other seventeen people in attendance were all uniformed members of the U.S.Armed Forces..The ranking senior officers present were all medical admirals...Edward C.Kinney ,surgeon general.. navy(61-65) ..Calvin B.Galloway commanding officer of Bethesda..George G.Burkley ,JFK's personal WH physician...None of the prosectors Humes,Boswell and Finck,qualified as forensic pathologists.
Humes,had been limited to a one week course in 53 at the AFIP ..Finck during the WC stated he had reviewed hundreds of cases of wounds while chief of Wound Ballistics Pathology Branch of the AFIP..was largely administrative and supervisory, it had not included any autopsies ,Finck in short had never performed an autopsy.."he was only able to cite two bullet-wound cases in which he had actually testified in a legal proceeding"...the WC never even attempted to qualify Boswell..They were competent pathologists, but they were hopelessly out of their league when it came to "a medicolegal investigation into a violent death"..
Dr.Milton Helpern, New York's chief medical examiner "likened the situation of an ordinary hospital pathologist confronted with a gunshot wound to "sending a seven year old boy who had taken three lessons on the violin over to the New York Philharmonic and expecting him to perform a Tchaiovsky symphony. He knows how to hold the violin and bow ,but he has a long way to go before he can make music."and in addition to being extremely unprepared, they were all career military men who were conditioned to following orders, and did so...
More followed, on March 16/64 at the WC hearings,Arlen Spector who was responsible for assembling the autopsy evidence section of the report, questioned Dr.Humes, and found out that he had burnt the first draft of the autopsy report.."in the fireplace of my recreation room"..and then upon a further exchange" he also disclosed to burning.."certain preliminary draft notes".The government records make this indisputably clear..Not a single commissioner asked Humes what right he had to have destroyed these papers and have done so, and neither did Specter..of course the Commissioners all knew to what Humes would attest to, they had all met frequently with the assistant council before they testified..Humes best guess was that there had been 8 to 10 meetings..this handling made sure there would be no surprises when they went under oath..It had to have been a great comfort to him, them, knowing that Specter would not pry, and the commissioners would not blink when he admitted doing so.....( When deposed by the ARRB years later, both Humes and Boswell recalled " an awful lot" of sessions with Specter before they did testify..The notes that were destroyed, by Humes belonged to the Bethesda Hospital,and their responsibility to see that every record was preserved, and it was derelict in it's duty not to have done so..in the civilian medical world, there are severe penalties.."for altering ,tampering with or destroying medical records...suspension of license, possible criminal charges of perjury or obstruction of Justice ,and charges of fraudulent misrepresentation "..also the U.S. Armed Forces manual that has set the standard for military autopsies is extremely clear about that importance..Humes had a working knowledge of this information...simply because it was the standard text used in the military teaching hospitals such as Bethesda.".."therefore the Warren Commission’s witting decision to deceive the American People about the JFK autopsy began with Dr.Hume's testimony".There are also other missing documents regarding the autopsy ..
Location of JFK’s skull wound according to earliest statements of witnesses present at JFK’s autopsy.
................................Right.......Right......Right
........................ ...Rear........Only.......Anterior
1. GODFREY McHUGH ..X
2. JOHN STRINGER ..X
3. WILLIAM GREER ..X
4. ROY KELLERMAN ..X
5. CLINTON J. HILL ..X
6. FRANCIS O’NEILL ..X
7. JAMES W. SIBERT ..X
8. TOM ROBINSON ..X
9. ROBERT KARNEI.MD.X
10. PAUL O’CONNOR....X..............X............X
11. JAMES C. JENKINS..X
12. EDWARD REED ..X
13. JERROL CUSTER ..X
14. JAN GAIL RUDNICKI.X
15. JAMES E. METZLER...X
16. DAVID OSBORNE, MD.X
17. JOHN EBERSOLE, MD..X
18. RICHARD LIPSEY ..X
19. CAPT. JOHN STOVER (? - TOP OF HEAD)
20. CHESTER BOYERS ..X............................X
21. JAMES HUMES, MD..X............................X
22. “J.” T. BOSWELL, MD..X
http://history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/H...rong_tabfig.htm
CD 397..was to be a documentary basis for the official autopsy report...it is not..
in March 64, Humes stated " it contained "copies ..of various longhand notes."made by himself...Specter regarded them as being a part of " a group of documents"..used to draw the final autopsy report..
CD 397 hold three sheets of paper..and a 15 "page handwritten or holographic "revision"according to Humes..of the first autopsy draft that he admitted burning, on the Sunday Nov.24/63..the day the LHO was assassinated..even allowing for memory lapses ..what Humes told the WC is not consistent with the public record....when testifying before the ARRB he did recall making two or three pages of detailing certain measurements ..Boswell's memory has varied over the years..in March 79 before the HSCA he stated he was the only one taking notes..however when before the ARRB he recalled both he and Humes had taken notes..Boswell was clear that it is his "notes that appeared on the autopsy descriptive sheet.."..also Dr.Finck stated that he also had taken notes on small pieces of paper that he had given to Humes..."A short time after the Bethesda autopsy Finck was heard by a colleague at the AFIP complaining loudly during lunch that his autopsy notes had disappeared before he left the morgue the night of the autopsy. The army pathologist later testified before the ARRB that he had re written his notes from memory before turning them over to Humes"..
CD 397 contains the three sheets of paper, and the fifteen page handwritten or holographic "revision" of the first autopsy draft according to Humes..One of the sheets is a regulation U.S.Armed Forces autopsy descriptive sheet..or "face sheet" the front and back of the President's body showing and locating the wounds that he had received along with abbreviated notes, and measurements..
The other sheets are in reference to a few notes from the telephone conversation between Humes and Dr.Malcolm Perry, the Parkland emergency room surgeon who had performed the tracheotomy on the President..Clearly CD 397..did not and does not contain all of the medicolegal documents that Humes and Specter represented before the WC..there is no accounting for Finck's missing autopsy notes ,which is but a very small part of all the official deception ...
In March 79..Humes before the HSCA, testified that he had also destroyed all the autopsy notes that were in his possession because they were "stained with JFK's blood and body fluids." as well as the first autopsy draft........but he did assure them before he destroyed the original autopsy notes he " sat down and word for word copied what I had on fresh paper."...Humes" bloodstain"story is implausible he not only related this to the HSCA, but also later to the ARRB as well..."The official contention that CE 397 represented the documentary basis for the final autopsy report collapses under the weight of the objective factual evidence...
The autopsy notes in CD 397 consists of four brief notations and five measurements on Boswell's autopsy descriptive sheet and a single sheet of paper with a few brief notes Humes made after talking to Dr.Perry."...Humes notes also contain only one measurement, Perry's description of the hole in the front of the President's neck..that he estimated at 3-5 mm in diameter..
Which makes is all the more unbelievable is the fact that the WC official final autopsy report is based on these few notes, they would have us believe..?? There are enough facts in the official typed copy against the notes in CD 397 that it reveals enough serious and blatant discrepancies that they discredit the entire report....Even JFK's height,weight,hair colour,and other physical appearances were counted as autopsy facts...
Of the facts the most important involves measurements that refer to JFK’s wounds..there size and the distance from other parts of his body.. a few are..
"": The official autopsy report (AR) noted on page 2.."There is edema and ecchymosis of the inner canthus region of the left eyelid measuring approximately 1.5 in greatest diameter." ( swelling and bruising )The notes make no reference to this damage, nor the measurement.
: The AR noted on page 3.."There is an old well healed 8cm. McBurneys abdominal incision."..There is a mark on the descriptive sheet showing this scar but no measurement in the notes.
: The AR notes page 3.." Situated on the upper antero-leteral aspect of the right thigh is an old ,well healed 8cm scar ." The notes indicated no mark of any nature on the thighs, as well as not appearing anywhere on Boswell's notes.
: The AR noted page 2.."There is edema and ecchymosis diffusely over the right supra-orbital ridge with abnormal mobility of the underlying bone." ( swelling and bruising over the ridge of bone just above the right eye socket.) There is no mention of this in the notes.
: The AR page 3.. Described JFK's back wound as "situated on the upper right posterior thorax ( below the Adams apple) just above the upper border of the scapula.(shoulder blade).. Nowhere in the notes was it stated or implied that the rear wound is near the scapula.
: The AR on page 4…spoke of a beveling in a large fragment of JFKS' skull retrieved from the assassination scene and recorded that the beveling "is estimated to measure approximately 2.5 to 3.0cm. in diameter." There is no mention of these measurements in the notes..
: The AR on page 4… described two irregularly shaped fragments of metal found in the right cerebral cortex .(major part of the brain ,with white and grey matte, ,where all ones faculties reside ..it’s the complexity of such that allows us to speak ,do math ,play a violin, etc..) ."These measure 7x2 mm.and 3 x 1mm.These are placed in the custody of Agents Francis X.O'Neill and James W.Sibert of the (FBI), who executed a receipt therefore attached." The notes contained no mention of these missile fragments, their number, or their location."....
There are, give or take ,about 88 autopsy facts..in the official prosectors report.
About 64 of the facts (almost )75% cannot be found..In either CD 397...or in the published notes..Some 15 of these pieces of the information involves measurements and numbers that are not found in the published record..
It is not possible the Humes even with the help of other pathologists could have drawn from their memories "those minute measurements in reference to the bullet wounds..their dimensions or their distance from one another, and or the medicolegal details with the unerring exactitude expected in the forensic investigation of an assassinated President.."..Also the fact that their relying on memory would have been much more complicated by the fact that the autopsy Doctors did not have access to the autopsy X-rays and photographs when drafting such an official report. All the autopsy and X-rays had been loaded into a cardboard box and taken by the Secret Service agent Roy H.Kellerman..the night of the autopsy..It was not until ....November 1966..that Humes and Boswell ever saw, for the first time the autopsy photos when the Justice Dept. requested that they identify and inventory them for the National Archives....
The autopsy notes chain of possession..is a mystery..
Nov.24/63..letter of transfer to Humes commanding officer ,Capt.J.H.Stover, the navy pathologist certified that "all working papers" associated with the JFK autopsy "have remained in my personal custody" until he turned them over to Stover the "autopsy notes and the holograph draft of the final report"..
Stover signed Humes certificate, noting that "above working papers" had been received.
The following day Stover's boss..Adm.C.B.Galloway transmitted the autopsy protocol along with "all the work papers used by the Prosector and his assistants" to Admiral Burkley..On Nov 26th.Burkley sent Kennedy's autopsy records to Robert Bouck, chief of the Presidents Protective Service Arm of the Secret Service. Bouck's receipt was a ten inch tally of everything that Burkley had transferred to his office. One entry read.."One copy of the autopsy report and notes of the examing doctor which is described in letter of transmittal.Nov.25,1963 by Dr.Gallaway.(sic).Bouck's receipt should have been one of the documents in CD 397.but it is excluded because one of the items on the list , in addition to the acknowledgement receipt of the autopsy notes, read "An original and six pink copies of Certificate of Death ( Nav.Med.N)..
The Warren Commission suppressed, deliberately JFK's death certificate from it's published records because it was destructive of the official explanation of the crime.".
The paper trail does establish that beyond a doubt the autopsy notes existed as late as Nov.26/63..when they were turned over to Brouck ,of the Presidents PSA of the Secret Service..
"After that the trail ends as though the autopsy notes dropped out of the government's database and into some memory hole.."...
These suppressed receipts and unaccounted for number of autopsy facts and statements in the final autopsy report make a convincing case the original notes ,not just those published in CE 397 should have been a historical document uncompromising in accuracy and completeness instead of the gutted remnant of the medicolegal evidence in an assassination of politically- far reaching and wrenching consequences ...
After 43 years the question still asked is .." What was in those suppressed notes and the first autopsy draft that Humes swore he committed to the flames.?.."
Humes pinpointed the time of when he burned the first hand written autopsy draft...
When questioned by Specter and later the HSCA...it coincided with the news of LHO’s murder by Jack Ruby he stated to the HSCA, " we interrupted our work to try and figure out what this meant to us." The one thing that was clear was that Oswald's death changed everything to the prosectors and their superiors who controlled the Bethesda autopsy..There would be no need now to produce all the autopsy notes and the first autopsy draft.. at the trial of an accused assassin..nor to defend the autopsy report if it came under any cross- examination by any determined defense attorney..the destruction of the first autopsy draft which Humes described as "certain preliminary draft notes"..and the submission of the written version for the original took place that Sunday afternoon..Nov.24th/63 in Admiral G. Galloway's office , after the nation was stunned by the TV coverage of Lee Harvey Oswald’s murder..
The revised handwritten autopsy draft revealed substantive changes of fact from the original draft that Humes said he had burned..some were safe enough even though they would not likely be found in any autopsy report that was performed by an experienced forensic pathologist. Such as Humes originally described the limo" as moving at approximately 20 miles an hour".In addition to this being in error, Humes could only have known this if he had read the newspapers and or listened to TV or the radio... In the revision he changed it to "moving at a slow rate of speed”. Also in the last sentence of the revised autopsy report on the same page the report claimed ,"Three shots were heard and the President fell face down to the floor of the vehicle."..This was a fabrication...It was revised to read, "Three shots were heard and the President fell forward."..Both versions were in error but are consistent with the official "truth" that all the shots originated from the rear of the presidential motorcade.."..
The Zapruder film depicts the fatal shot(s) with sickening clarity..Upon impact JFK goes forward for a split second and then is thrown violently backwards..to his left towards Jacqueline Kennedy's..
One page 7 ,in a single sentence there were 7 changes of fact about the Head wound , the term "puncture" was twice eliminated and replaced in one instance with the term "lacerated"..which changed the whole nature of the wound..? On pages 8 and 9 "puncture" was stricken through and on page 9 was replaced with "occipital", which was entirely different....The most controversial ,JFK's frontal neck wound..The, solution and the validation of the Warren report itself rested on the assertion that this was a wound of exit........On page 9 of the handwritten autopsy draft ,it was edited to read "presumably of exit..".The last sentence of page 9 was edited to read "presumably of entrance" when referring to JFK's nonfatal posterior wound..According to Dr.Finck it was Admiral Galloway who insisted that the wording presumably be substituted in both instances..he was not a pathologist..but he was flag-rank officer and the controlling authority when the final typewritten autopsy report was prepared by the three pathologists..
Note: Throat wound.” On Every page where the term puncture was used by Humes to denote a wound of entrance, it was crossed out except in one instance.
Page 2 of the revised draft contained the question begging sentence :
Dr.Perry noted the massive head wound and a second, puncture wound, in the lower anterior neck in approximately midline." In the final typed version of the report this was changed to read, ..
"Dr.Perry noted the massive head wound and as second much smaller wound of the low anterior neck in approximately the midline."...A natural destruction chronology seems to manifest itself ..of the autopsy records, missing notes, and heavy editing of the first autopsy report...The rewriting of the Kennedy's autopsy records, not by coincidence were made exactly with Oswald's murder and "Katzenbach's handwritten memo" Sunday, Nov.24/63..to, Bill Moyers, after conversing with President Johnson and Director Hoover, "Katzenbach's laid out for Moyers the official version of the assassination for public consumption. From the very outset of the official investigation Oswald was not just the principal suspect, he was the only suspect."...
In 1996,a few years before his death,"Dr.Humes testified before the ARRB, and was asked why he had burned the first autopsy report."..He had no real answers.
The bloodstain story was no option because it had been written in the privacy of his home.He was mildly pressed by the board's executive ,T.Jeremy Gunn, Humes became testy and defiant. ..he stated " it might have been errors in spelling or I don't know what was the matter with it, or whether I even ever did that."..he also remarked " but that's the way the cookie crumbles".."Gunn reminded him that of his 1979 HSCA testimony before Gary Cromwell about the rewriting, of the autopsy notes on fresh paper before burning the bloodstained originals"..Gunn's efforts " to get the navy prosector to explain for the record why he had destroyed unsoiled draft notes met with no more success than his questions about the first autopsy draft."..He was "deeply agitated and verging on incoherence, Humes claimed that, "" it was my own materials"" to destroy and said he did not want ""anything to remain that some squirrel would grab and make whatever they might.""..He told Gunn, his only thought had been was to turn over the Admiral Burkley" my complete version" .."So I burned everything else"..
Now the ARRB had been established by Congress to see that any unreleased documentary records material to the Kennedy assassination were made public..
However the mandate had not mentioned anything about the board assuming the role of maintaining the Warren Report. Gunn had, plenty, many opportunities to catch Humes in his misrepresentations, as they had possession of all the receipts for the autopsy records ...he also knew that they had existed as late as Nov.26/63..when they had no longer been in Humes possession..He also had Humes own words that refuted his statement that he had burnt all the autopsy notes in his possession. But Gunn never used the documents..Instead of pressing for the truth. Gunn allowed him to revert and repeat the bloodstain story without any serious objection..This was his last under oath public statement about the JFK assassination autopsy records.."that the final autopsy report " was the product" of the three pages of notes that appeared in CD 397..with this response Gunn, moved on to another area of questioning....he must have known that Humes final words were an impossibility..In 1998 shortly before the ARRB came to and end, it released a report on the President's medical and autopsy records.It noted that that one of the tragedies of the JFK assassination was the incompleteness of the autopsy report and the "suspicion caused by the shroud of secrecy that has surrounded the records that do exist."....Had the ARRB been willing to report the truth it would have stated "that more than 70 percent of the facts and statements in the final autopsy draft do not appear in any published governments records"..Either they have been hidden away in some obscured government archive, or they went through the same alleged fate as Hume's first autopsy draft..The autopsy Doctors always insisted they knew nothing of the wound in the front of JFK's throat until Saturday morning..when Humes called Perry ...
Even though one major snag did require immediate attention..There was an obstacle to Katzenbach's Nov.24th statement that LHO was the lone assassin...As there had been a news conference at the Parkland Hospital in Dallas, a few hours after the President was pronounced dead...with Dr.Malcolm Perry and Dr.Kemp Clark...(this news from Dallas had been on the TV, and Radio, for more than six hours, before the autopsy was begun, at Bethesda )...Dr.Perry who had performed the tracheotomy had fielded the most questions and had stated three times, and had very matter of flatly identified the wound in JFK's throat as an entrance wound.Dr.Clark who was standing by his side, concurred with the description of the puncture wound as an entrance..But before this traumatic weekend was over the young surgeon was pressured into retracting his description of Kennedy's neck wound..the official story being that the call between Humes and Perry immediately cleared up the mystery of the entrance wound in the Presidents back with no known exit wound..but by Sat. morning the Bethesda team had a track for the non fatal bullet fired from behind and above ....according to the official account, the first shot was a non fatal wound that had entered the back of the President's neck..at about a 45 degree downward angle..and emerged from his throat...just below the Adam's Apple...The Sat morning call had been a liberation from the documented truth...like the Hume's "bloodstain" story this "was designed to satisfy the political needs rather than answer the medicolegal questions surrounding the assassination.."......
Then on Nov.24th Katzenbach made his announcement..LHO was the lone assassin...
Humes and Boswell said they never saw Kennedy’s clothes..Finck told a different story. In his summary report to General Blumberg, he noted when he tried to examine the coat and shirt , an “officer who outranked me told me that my request was only of academic interest..”..Months later when they did see them ,when Specter made them available..The bullet holes were in almost perfect alignment ,consistant with a wound entrance in the shoulder..about 6 inches below the top of the collor line ..Humes and Boswell insisted that Kennedy’s customn made clothes, had ridden up..as he waved to the crowds..The original autopsy face sheet placed the wound where it was, in the region of the shoulder girdle exactly where you would expect to find them based on the wound holes in his coat and shirt..(CE 397), FBI Sibert and O’Neill also saw and placed the wound “just below shoulders to right of spinal column and hand probing indicated trajectory at angle of forty five to sixty downward degrees and hole of short depth with no point of exit.”..Both men veteran agents,and well trained to observe..and to report accurately..one or both had always been close to the autopsy table..as reported by Humes. Boswell tired to explain this as just “rough notes”..”FBI agenst were not trained in medicine.” Commissioner Gerald Ford, later President as we know changed the back wound from slightly below the shoulder up to the back of the neck slightly to the right of the spine..it brought the wound in line with the Commissions no conspiracy..single bullet theory….When Dr.Finck appeared before the Shaw trial in New Orleans, under Jim Garrison..the first day being very haughty ,assuming an air of arrogance and with self importance….Before leaving he may have been coached by Carl Eardley, deputy assistant attorney general where he reviewed all autopsy ,X-ray, photos and Clark’s Medical Panel Report ..
He began the first day by spelling out words that he used in response to questions, ,such as “abrasion, entry ,and entrance”..as though he was in a classroom and not in a cort of law…..before that day was over” he became, contentious, sour tempered and harried under the prosecutions probing cross examination ,especially about the failure to dissect JFK’s neck wound.”..He began to argue with the Judge ,ignore the advice of his council,and flirted with contempt charges, rather than answer questions..He even tried to blam the Kennedy’s for placing restrictions on the autopsy, but to no avail.”Then finally under threat of contempt from the Judge..he made some startling disclosures”.He admitted that there were some uniformed admirals in the Bethesda morgue..and admitted that “when you are a Lieutenant Colonel in the Army you just follows orders.” He no longer was a cocky witness,,and finally during his second day in court he named names..Alvin Oser asst DA. Who conducted his cross examination ,pressed him about the neck wound and why it had not been dissected , had it been because of “ direct orders “..Trying to salvage what he could Finck resorted to semantics, and instead characterized them as being “suggestions and directions”..offered by the two medical flag Officers Galloway and Kinney.”.(.guess what it was all but ignored by the national press….)..
But his testimony set off bells ringing at the Justice Dept..According to Boswell, Eardley called him and told him to hop a plane and get to N.O quick…because
“Pierre (Fink) is testifying and lousing everything up.”.”.Boswell spent several days in New Orleans at government expense consulting with Justice attorneys, reviewing the transcript of Finck’s testimony,and apparently assisting with a government damage-control exercise”..
From pages: 153 to page 167..and page 174-175..
All documentation, notes, references for all above..is on .pages..407 to page 411 in Notes to pages section ……
Note: Re, the call that Admiral Galloway spoke of to Dr.Perry at Parkland Hospital on the Saturday morning re the neck wound….the most direct refutation is the fact that an article in the “Baltimore Sun” Nov.25,1966..on the third anniversary of the President’s death in which Dr. Boswell, one of the autopsy doctors at Bethesda Hospital, interviewed by reporter Richard H.Levine stated that Bethesda had known of JFK’s wounds and exactly what they had performed in their attempt to resuscitate him, before the body arrived in Washington, and at Bethesda..Boswell did not say from whom he received his information, it may have been related to him by one of the emergency room doctors or possibly” by the Dallas County justice of the peace office where JFK’s inquest had been executed”..but most probably from Dr.Burkley, JFK’s private physician..also Dr. Ebersole , head of radiology at Bethesda, in his appearance at the HSCA Medical Panel, four times referenced the fact that to Dr.Hume’s Friday night call to Parkland..in Dallas.he could only approximate the time after 15 years, and that was between 10 and 11 pm..the call making an imprint on his recall, as it solved to him the problem with the search for an exit path for the posterior wound ..he also told them that after the call Dr.Humes has come back to the autopsy table and announced that JFK had an exit wound under the tracheotomy that matched with the posterior wound…and though his memory was not as exacting, the autopsy photographer ,John T.Stringer thought that Humes had called Dallas that Friday night…p.168..notes page..412..
The story that Robert Kennedy had denied the WC the autopsy and X-ray photos
Was a lie….also the mention that the Kennedy family did not want them shown at the hearings….that Specter had told to Humes and Finck, which they did pass along in their appearance before the ARRB ……Specter knew the stories were bogus….he in an Apr 64 memo to Chief Council Rankin, urged him to obtain them ,he knew the Ryberg medical illustrations could not substitute for the forensic evidence..He had learned and mentioned that SS inspector Thomas J. Kelley that the AT “ wanted to be satisfied that they were really necessary”..he did not hear back from Rankin, and wrote again, for staff access to such..he knew that Rankin expected to wrap up the WC in June. (1).At the time Specter was not privy to the fact that the WC ,Rankin, had the autopsy photos, as well as the X-rays they had kept this information from the assistant councils and staff. Most of the Commissioners being lawyers, knew the solid rules of evidence but chose to sit through the testimony in which their key witnesses were denied “the best medicolegal evidence”........just as they had refused to raise an eyebrow when Humes spoke of burning the autopsy records (2)…
Several years later Commissioner McCloy appeared on CBS’s “Face the Nation”..they discussed that day in Dallas and he stated…""for the sake of completion “”,”” they had not looked at the late president’s autopsy X-rays and photographs..””..the told millions of Sunday viewers ,”” We were perhaps a little over sentitive,”” to the wishes of the Kennedy family., who”” were against the production of colored photographs of the body and so forth..””…He struck the right pose of repentance , and then McCloy went on to tell the TV audience …”that even without reviewing the autopsy pictures the Commission had “..”” the best evidence ( on the autopsy) in the sworn testimony of the doctor..””
Page 171..
Notes: page 412..
(1)..Arlen Specter to J.Lee Rankin..April 30/64..Warren CD 10079, NA,Washington.DC..,1-2 “Specter to Rankin, 11,12/64,J.Lee Rankin Papers,box 37 folder 473,NARA..
(2)..When John McCloy asked about the “raw material for the autopsy….the colored photographs of the President’s body …..do we have these?”..
Rankin acknowledged that they had the “raw materials” photos,and X-rays. See WC Jan.21/64, executive session transcript ,NARA, 35. Two years after the Commission submitted it’s final report on the assassination ,former assistant counsels W.David Slawson and Norman Redlich reported to Burke Marshall that the Commission had NOT seen the X-rays and the autopsy photos ..See W.David Slawson to file ,10/7/1966,Dept of Justice ,Criminal Division, file 129-11.1-2.
(3)..McCloy’s Face the Nation comments can be found in FBI clipping of the Washington Capital News Service ,7/6/1967..FBIHQ Liaison with Commission File 62-109090-601..
McCloy’s continued exercise in blaming the Kennedy’s for withholding crucial evidence was part of the FBI’s campaign,to cover up it’s further embarrassing failure to not get a copy of the autopsy report before submitting its report CD 1..on the assassination to the Commission..These lies,misinformation and blaming the victim’s family, was so unpalatable to even J.Edgar Hoover…that he noted on an FBI memo ..”The confusion…would never have occurred if we had obtained the autopsy report originally. The Kennedys never asked us to withhold it and if they had we should have disgarded it.”
Notes: page 412,,
Rosen to DeLoach ,12/7/66..FBIHQ,JFK assn file,62-109060..4235..
Also J.Stanley Rotz..to SAC ,Baltimore,10/18/66..Main Baltimore JFK Assn File..89-30-268: 89-30-262 and 267..
Dr.George G.Burkley and J.F.Kennedy’s Head Wounds..
Being the President’s personal physician,in the presidential party, the motorcade ,in attendance with the dying President in the Parkland emergency room… up to him to pronounce him dead officially at 1 pm..,filling out and signing the death certificate , before any of the “official facts” of the assassination had been decided, with the body on Air Force One on the sad trip back to Washington..remained in the Bethesda morgue during the autoposy ……..you would have thought that his name would have been at the top of the Warren Commission’s list of witnesses…
He was never called…never interviewed by the FBI, nor the Secret Service..before or after the reports were handed into the WC .never deposed by any staff member ..he was as they say dropped down a “memory hole”..
Perhaps it was because his death certificate, destroyed the WC findings, and the lone shooter theory, and proved a conspiracy, on Nov. 22/63..and also it proves the Zapruder Film, as being false, which show J.F,Kennedy’s killing head shots within said film…
The “official death certificate” prepared, detailed and signed by Dr.Burkley destroys the essential fact that JFK and Connally were hit by the same bullet..
It places the none fatal rear wound as being where it was…a bullet entering Kennedy’s back at a downward angle of 45 degrees ,not striking bone ,cannot and could not alter the trajectory to exit from his throat and continue onto nor into Governor Connelly’s back..
This after all was the basic finding and theory of the Warren Commission…
This is referred to, as a “bad Fact”…Dr.Burkley was a “bad fact”....perfectly chosen words..
And it had to be prevented from becoming known at all costs, it was the biggest threat to all involved..
Whether he did, as he stated.. “ supervised the autopsy …and had complete knowledge of everything that was done “..there were three uniformed admirals at Bethesda ,reluctantly acknowledged by Dr. Fink,,,,Admiral Galloway, Admiral Kinney and Admiral Humes….Burkley as JFK’s personal physician, must have shared the information with those in attendance, of the tracheotomy with the autopsists.
With the need to find the track of the posterior, ( back wound)...they would have turned to the White House physician.
If he himself had not stepped forward on his own, he would have simply slipped through the “memory hole” entirely of any official reports..In June 1964 he contacted the FBI coordinator with the White House..Orrin H Bartlett , he had a request..he was puzzled according to the Agent that he had not been contacted by the WC..he asked that Bartlett contact them and that his statement of the assassination be accepted..it was sent up the so called ladder of the FBI command , examined by the need-to-know assistant directors before it was settled to contact chief council Rankin..who finally accepted Dr.Burkley’s 9 page statement, and placed in the official record, which said nothing…..of any consequence ..( page 415..notes..D.J Brennan to W.C.Sullivan 6/4/64..FBIHQ Liason with Com file.62-109090-Not Recorded (NR) ..A.Rosen to Belmont ,6/8/64..FBIHQ Liaison with Com file ,62-109090 –NR.”.In some ways Burkley’s statement was one of the most remarkable single documents in the vast quicksand of the Warren Commission and its work. The statement said nothing about the President’s wounds ,their nature, or their number .He offered no observations about what had taken place in the Bethesda morgue. In fine ,it is a literary monument to vapidity and innocuousness ..For Burkley’s statement, see Hearings before Commission ,Vol 22,pages93-97…
**********************************************
During a news conference at Parkland Hospital, White House press secretary Malcolm Kilduff was asked to describe where the bullet entered, he replied,
Dr. Burkley [Kennedy’s personal physician] told me it is a simple matter . . . of a bullet right through the head. . . . It is my understanding that it entered in the temple, the right temple.
In a picture that has long been famous among researchers, Kilduff is seen to illustrate his answer by pointing to his own right temple. Veteran reporter Seth Kantor attended this press conference, and in his notes he wrote that the bullet had
“entered right temple.”
At 1:47, CST, about fifteen minutes after Kilduff’s press conference, UPI transmitted the following bulletin:
President Kennedy was shot in the right temple.
“It was a simple matter of a bullet right through the head,”
said Dr. George Burkley, White House Medical Officer.
http://johnfkennedy.blogsome.com/category/george-burkley
******************************************************************
AGENCY: HSCA
ORIGINATOR: HSCA
FROM: RICHARD SPRAGUE
TO: FILE
MEMORANDUM
March 18, 1977
TO : FILE
FROM : RICHARD A. SPRAGUE
William F. Illig, an attorney from Erie, Pa., contacted me in Philadelphia this
date, advising me that he represents Dr. George G. Burkley, Vice Admiral, U.S.
Navy retired, who had been the personal physician for presidents Kennedy and
Johnson.
Mr. Illig stated that he had a luncheon meeting with his client, Dr. Burkley,
this date to take up some tax matters. Dr. Burkley advised him that although he,
Burkley, had signed the death certificate of President Kennedy in Dallas, he had
never been interviewed and that he has information in the Kennedy assassination
indicating that others besides Oswald must have participated.
Illig advised me that his client is a very quiet, unassuming person, not wanting
any publicity whatsoever, but he, Illig, was calling me with his client's
consent and that his client would talk to me in Washington.
Quote off.
Gary Aguilar writes:
"Can you think of a single, good explanation for the suppression of this document, other than it confounds the myths the HSCA was putting forward at V7:37-39 - that ALL the Bethesda witnesses ( whose contradictory statements were likewise suppressed), "refuted" Parkland witnesses' claims JFK had a rear skull defect, including, presumably George Burkley's?!
What kinds of honest investigations 'overlook' leads like the above from perhaps the most important medical witness to the events in Dealy Plaza, Parkland, Bethesda, the White House, etc., etc., etc? Only "responsible, official" investigations, of course, that's what kind!
This memo is discouraging not only because no follow-up action was apparently ever taken, but also because it was suppressed. As with the suppression of Bethesda witnesses' statements describing JFK's rear scalp/skull defect to D. Andy Purdy, JD (admissions flatly and falsely denied in the HSCA's summary), the suppression of the Burkley memo had the effect of painting a false portrait of the HSCA's medical evidence, one which Purdy summarized in 1994 at COPA, when he claimed: "We wanted to find medical evidence Oswald didn't do it, but it just wasn't there." Of course it WAS there, only supposedly hidden for 50 years, probably, in this specific instance, even from Purdy. But its release encourages the view that the HSCA suppressed it and the others not to protect national security, but to protect the public from evidence confounding the HSCA's "Oswald-probably-did-it" medical conclusions.
One wonders what other suppressed documents have yet to reveal to all but "responsible" officials."
http://karws.gso.uri.edu/Marsh/autopsy/Dr_Burkley.html
**************************
Oral History Interview with ADMIRAL GEORGE G. BURKLEY October 17. 1967 Washington, D.C
By William McHugh For the John F. Kennedy Library
McHUGH: I see. Did you view the X-rays that were made of the President or autopsy photos?
BURKLEY: We might mention something about the assassination here which will clear the record I think, to a great degree. When we were in Fort Worth, Mrs. Lincoln and I were in the second car in the motorcade. When we arrived in Dallas the President got off one end of the plane. Mrs. Lincoln and I got off the other end of the plane, and when we got to the bottom of the stairs, the motorcade was already in motion and I complained to the Secret Service that I should be either in the follow-up car or the lead car.
McHUGH: Who did you speak to at that time?
BURKLEY: Members of the Secret Service. And they said it couldn't be arranged, that the politicians had gotten in that group of cars, that every one wanted to be in those cars, and also the motorcade was in action. We, therefore, were put in a so-called VIP vehicle. When the assassination occurred, I got to the scene by securing a car through one of the Secret Service, Andy Berger, and an escort of a policeman. I was there probably within three to five minutes of the time the President arrived. I went immediately in to see the President, and went to the table on which he was being treated, and immediately saw for all intents and purposes life did not exist, or could not be sustained. I talked to the doctors who were busily engaged in doing what was indicated and would have been indicated had there been any hope of salvation of the President. I gave them some hydrocortisone, to put in the intravenous which was being given, and also told them his blood type. There was no need for anything in my estimation, but they were correct in doing all possible procedures. I then contacted Mrs. Kennedy, who was sitting outside, and that is of record, and from then on it was my interest. Where were we? [tape off, resumed] When the President was on the Air Force One returning to Washington, Mrs. Kennedy, as has been noted, sat in the rear of the plane, next to the coffin bearing the President's remains. During the flight I contacted her, and stated that an autopsy would be necessary, and that I was perfectly willing to arrange to have it done at any place that she felt it should be done. She said, "Well, it doesn't have to be done." I said, "Yes, it is mandatory that we have an autopsy. I can do it at the Army hospital at Walter Reed, or at the Navy hospital at Bethesda, or any civilian hospital that you would designate." However, I felt that it should be a military hospital, in that he had been President of the United States and was, therefore, the Commander in Chief of the Military. After some consideration she stated that she would like to have the President taken to Bethesda. This was arranged by telephone from the plane, and it was accomplished. I accompanied the President in the ambulance going to Bethesda, and also accompanied him to the area where the autopsy was performed. And during the course of the autopsy I supervised everything that was done and . . [phone call]
MCHUGH: You mentioned that you supervised the autopsy.
BURKLEY: I supervised the autopsy and kept in constant contact with Mrs. Kennedy and the members of her party who were on the seventeenth floor in the suite at that level. I made trips back and forth. I delivered to her personally the ring from the President's finger, and talked to her on a number of occasions. I also directed that the X-rays be taken for future reference, and had complete knowledge of every thing that was done. The records are also in possession of members of the family.
McHUGH: I see. There were photographs taken also at that time. Were there not?
<b
-
When the FBI "raided" the offices and all of Dr.C.Wecht....
They also, took with them, all his JFK, assassination files, documentation
and such...which has and had absolutely nothing to do with his
actions as a coroner.......
As far as I know, at present nothing has been
returned.
He has spoken out for many years, publicly...against the government
and the findings of the WC...
Could it possibley be that they
finally got him and his information, by the use of an AT...?.
B..
-
Aw......yepper that is me, I am the alterationists housewife spokewoman...
I am a great danger..to all who do not think for themselves....burn me at the stake
with the rest of them...then we may all disappear......not until..and not likely..
You do not affect me Mr. Peters nor Mr.Colby too bad..see I think for myself, scarey thought huh...?
I see that Mr.Peters is back amongst the living.... and is sounding the same, boring.
....Nice to know that Larry can read, and that
is fine, as I have already read all of his posts, tit for tat is fair...and so is the fact that Mr.Colby had
his say, I had mine, and now Mr. Peters has also had his..
All somewhat different, but that is what this is all about...or is it??... the right to our opinion..
I do hope Mr.Peters keeps reading until he comes to the first day evidence Zapruder
information, and then hestitates long enough to read some documentation and
real information, not mine, but the witnesses, Doctors and such from Parkland
..he may even learn a few things.
Fine "overreaction", gee I do wonder why?? the truth must hurt...
This is known as "over kill" some seem to think that the louder and nastier they are, the more scared
others will be, so that they will hush and disappear...been there, seen that, and read it all before....
it doesn't work with all...never has...some even have the intelligence to ask and wonder "Why" ??
and come back, Lord forbid...with perhaps even more information, and reasonings..
Mr.Peters, and Mr.Colby......Calm down...I don't stress much on anything now because,
"A" Type personalities such as you are exhibiting ,die young.....
I have lived quite a long time now, too late for me to concern
myself about such, but not too late for you..so do take a deep breath
and get over it, you would think that this is the very first time on a
Forum that Mr. Colby had been called on what he stated...and or the first time that Mr Peters has
read a post that he did not agree with..??
Good for you that you stick up for your friend, Mr.Peters, and nice to see after you have done so,
that Mr. Colby becomes brave enough to have his say and reply to moi..
Continue and keep in mind, that after all we alterationists housewives are a dangerous lot ....
we will not be shut up...
"Tawanda"............lol.....
B..
-
Len Colby:Quote..
""First of all I never claimed to be a JFK researcher. I think of myself as a debunker of nonsense and it is very self serving of Jack to state that "all real JFK researchers have read" a book to which he is a contributor. I doubt ALL real researchers have read it from what I gather most serious JFK researchers dismiss all of Fetzer's books as junk so they are not exactly first on my reading list. I am sure Fetzer, White and Healy would use circular logic and say anyone who hasn't read their books isn't a "real researcher" by definition. ""
Len Colby:"Quote..
"Speaking of arrogance or more accurately over inflated egos, here is what Fetzer had to say about himself and his own work on another forum recently."
LOL........You speak of arrogance:
You admit ,you have not the knowledge of a JFK researcher, yet presume to be a "debunker of nonsense" and continue to attack those that do, and have researched and obtained such....???
Are you presuming that you are being open minded ??
You presume to know how many serious researchers have read "The Great Zaprduer Hoax"...???
You also presume "gather " to know that most serious researchers regard all of Dr.Fetzer's books as junk.".???
So because you presume such they are not on your reading list...???
To continue to ignore, any information in any book, any evidence, documentation, witnesses recollections, of first day....regarding the Assassination of the President.....and yet presume that you have the knowledge to rebut same...
Is the epitomy of "arrogance"....Touche' you win the prize of the day, for the most nonsensical post, I have read in a long, long time......
Congratulations..
Keep up the good work Mr.Colby....you are way out of your league..as you have admitted...and are capable of showing you have the ability to copy and paste......
and have many "thinkies"....
Thanks for the best laugh I have had in many a day..
page 10....
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...pic=5708&st=135
B.......
-
The Z film shows Mary Moorman on the grass. I believe that's where she was. But if she was in the street, and conspirators who altered the film put her on the grass, why would they do that? What damn difference would it make to the people who killed JFK if Mary Moorman was on the grass or in the street? Why wouldn't they just leave her alone?
But there's no need for anyone to answer these questions. They're rhetorical. I'm fairly sure that Mary Moorman was on the grass. One thing that I'm absolutely certain about is that Mary Moorman was a babe. I think that this photo proves it:
Some may disagree, but I don't care. There is nothing that will make me change my mind.
I agree, it seems peculiar. Is it in order to support a particular theory that a choice has been made that things must be so and this guides the interpretation of 'evidence'?
The notion that the zfilm supports the SBT also seems strange, could someone who believes this please explain how?
**********************************************
I am well aware some don't care, number one problem...as far as I can see.
The point being if any of the films and or photographs were altered, it was done
eventually by the Government, who had possession of them, and at that time,
there was only one theory, the lone assassin....they had to comply..
Some will say well this one and that one was in such and such newspaper back
on Nov 23rd, etc, or shown on telly, the next day whatever...Do you remember
what a photo looked like or a film, 43 years ago.....I certainly do not..
Some photos have been released and found, films etc, it took many years
for many to be.....I do not believe all have been touched, in
any way.....but some have been cut, and cropped, and I shall say adjusted,
what does that mean in the dictionary, alterations.....when any photo or
film has been touched in anyway, it has been altered...very simply to
comprehend...and all should want to know why.....Why was the Altgens cropped
in the WC..for instance??
I prefer to believe that it is the difference between looking at all the evidence
and documentation, not "guiding the interpretation of 'evidence'?, anything but...
It is a matter of reporting and researching all ,whether it be in an article such as Vince
Palamara's, or as in my previous posts on such as the Nix film and the medical evidence
that came from Parkland, and from the books, and or photographic analysis..so they do not
agree with the WCR or what the Government has chosen to report to us...That should make
us all as curious as hell, and ask why ????..and search for the answer..
It doesn't for some, they agree seemingly with what the
Government has stated........again why????
We cannot pick and choose, unless as some do, they have a particular theory......I do not post
and spend the time on research that I do, for those who seemingly believe they know it
all, and have made up their minds, and they are now closed....I do so to get all the
information out to the students and the young who do attend this forum, and need
it all.....
Not, as Gary Mack seemingly has done in a previous post he sent to a fellow member, that has
been posted here in this thread above...where
he simply made mention of the photographers cars stopping, he neglected to mention
as well he knew, that in the past he and Mr. Sprague has researched the Wiegman film,the
timing
and knew, what I had to post for him....and he is well aware, as I had contacted him
about this a year ago...at which time he was of no help..Now I know the why, and that was when
we were still communicating at times....that is deliberate misinformation, not giving the all...only part..
why would he not want the students to know the all.....???? He gave the impression that because
the three photo cars stopped, without revealing Mr Wiegman had jumped from the "reel" car
number one, that he nor any ,did not start getting any film till 25 to 30 seconds after the last shot,
that is misinformation IMO.....This also explains to me the why the TSBD does not sell, and what
they call conspiracy books, it was a conspiracy....not even Mr Harold Weisberg's whose information is
now all related to and has been available for their students at Hood College for many years..as well as
his books..though the
excuse they gave was that they were not educational books, and not taught in schools...poor excuse..
But they sell the WC and Posners and other government supported crap..
The good, bad and the ugly needs to be
looked at in all this......not just posting or being too quick agreeing to what seemingly,
backs up what someone may want to believe....for whatever reason they have chosen.
Some seemingly talk so much and have so many opinions, and read so extremely little....
it appears....all should do their homework, in otherwards, before they jump to
agree to anything....IMO........not abide by what anyone says, do not believe anyone,
not me, not any, do your own research, both sides, the other as well as the WC and
the Governments....What they have chosen not to report, hide, made light of, whatever
all....of it, it is out there all you have to do is to want to find it..if you are really and
truthfully interested in trying to help in anyway get to the bottom of the murder of a
President....at high noon, on a Dallas street..in his own country, where he should have
been safe...but where he was slaughtered in front of his wife,and the whole world...
including children.............
B...
-
More information for whomever......
David Wiegman:
"We were in that straight-a-way heading down to what I now know as
the Book Depository, and I heard the first report and I thought like every
body that it was a good size firecracker---a cherry bomb .Then when I
heard the second one, the adrenaline really started pumping because
there was a reaction in the motorcade, I was sitting on the edge of the
(car door) frame,which I sometimes did. I keenly remember right after
the incident that my feet were on the ground during one of the reports.
I don't think I was fast enough to react to the second, but I think on the
third one I was running.
The car had slowed down enough for me to jump out. I swung my leg
over and jumped while the car was still moving, but it was very slow.
I jumped and I remember running and I remember the third shot.
When I got out I knew I better get around the corner. The car was
stopping. I'd better run around there and see what was happening. I
knew the reaction was to run forward. I'd done this before in other
motorcades because a lot of times the President will stop and do
something. He might just shake a hand. He might look at a sign.
So your doing no good sitting in your car, and you can always
retrieve your car as it goes by....It was a technique I've used and
I've gotten some good pictures that way. That may have been built
in to get out and run and get up there and see what the heck's
happening . The motorcade has stopped, plus you heard a report
I don't think I thought on the first or second ( shot ), but when the
third one went off, I really thought I felt the compression on my face.
----I really thought I felt it. The I thought "Somebody is shooting".
The idea of turning on the camera, I don't know where that came
from. I’ve turned in some real sloppy work over the years that
went into editing because I believed that sometimes your not
photographing what's happening as much as the moment. It's a
slice of time. And something told me, "hey look, what have I got to
lose. I've got a full spring and just turn it on." I can't stop and plant
my feet, so I put it against my chest because you can't run with a
Filmo up to your eyes. So I just slid it down under my chin and
looked forward and ran as fast as I could and took in everything I
could."
Telephone interview Wiegman, 3/11/89..P.O.T.P...Trask..
pages 371-372.
..........................
He was in the Press car 1."the reel car"
the first with photographers aboard..A yellow 1964 Chev.Impala
convertible.
The President's Lincoln..The Queen Mary.SS...L.B.Js ...
SS..The Bell Telephone press pool car ..then the Press #1 Car..
(Wiegman's). Along with Atkins,Craven,John Hoefen,( Wiegman's
sound man..Front seat driving a Texas Ranger..then Cleve Ryan
then Wiegman on the passenger seat in the sixth car behind the
President..
He was carrying a Filmo movie camera,used no handle,
shot with left eye finders on left side of camera.Wide angle lens,
He thought he used a 10mm.that day..
Worked for NBC..TV cameraman..White House attachment every
day for 8 years..37 years old..
.........................
"It would appear through careful analysis of this film, and aided in
research done by Richard Sprague and Gary Mack ,on the timing
of the sequence, that Wiegman began filming
A LITTLE OVER THREE SECONDS:....
prior to the President BEING HIT IN THE HEAD".
Gary Mack 's,"Coverups!"..9/1982..p.2-5...9/1985, p.1-2..
Letter Richard Sprague to Robert Cuttler, 10/31/1982.
..........................
"Wiegman probably first pressed his camera trigger just after
the second shot."..clip.."begins as Wiegman's car is approaching
the TSDB, while the telephone car infront begins making the
left hand turn.".." shows various spectators on the steps of the
Book Depository as well as others on the sidewalk..Many are
looking forwards towards the presidential vehicle while some
are gazing back at the vehincles coming in their direction."
.Trask..p373
.......
In the film we see, the film begins with a panning of the front
entrance of the TSBD,swings to the left, then back to the right,
he then was on his way to the knoll,and behind the fence...see.
the film at below...click, Wiegman, then when page loads, click top
right hand corner button....ta da..
http://www.jfk-online.com/films.html
.................................
We have Wiegman capturing the TSBD entrance approximately
"A little over three seconds" prior to the President being hit in
head."..see above..Sprague..Mack..
......................
He continued filming as he ran his film shakes and jumps as he
spans the grassy knoll area, the Limo travelling to the underpass,
and what appears to
be smoke coming from under the trees in the area
of the fence ,then the pergola area
again, and some of the witnesses laying on the
ground,finally he proceeded to the
parking lot behind the fence area..
************************************8
Wiegman Film........
Dave Wiegman, Jr. (MPG, 7.5 MB)
http://www.jfk-online.com/1wiegman.html
********************************
59 Witnesses: Delay on Elm Street
(Revised update-1998)
by Vince Palamara
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-UPI's "Four Days" (1964), p. 17---In the right hand picture [a frame from the Muchmore film], the driver slams on the brakes and the police escort pulls up."
-"Newsweek", 12/2/63, p. 2---"For a chaotic moment, the motorcade ground to an uncertain halt."
-"Time", 11/29/63, p. 23---"There was a shocking momentary stillness, a frozen tableau."
-"Case Closed" by Gerald Posner (1993), p. 234---
"Incredibly, SA Greer, sensing that something was wrong in the back of the car, slowed the vehicle to almost a standstill." AND -Gerald Posner, with Dan Rather, on CBS' "Who Killed JFK: The Final Chapter?", 11/19/93---By turning around the second time and looking at JFK as the car slows down, Posner says that "What he [Greer] has done is inadvertently given Oswald the easiest of the three shots."
DID JOHN F. KENNEDY'S LIMOUSINE COME TO A STOP DURING THOSE TERRIBLE SIX SECONDS ON ELM STREET, OR DID IT SLOW DOWN? OR NEITHER? I INVITE THE READER TO LOOK AT THE STATEMENTS OF THE FOLLOWING WITNESSES; THEIR TESTIMONY AND COMMENTS, AS WE SEEK TO FIND THE TRUTH:
1) Houston Chronicle Reporter Bo Byers (rode in White House Press Bus)---twice stated that the Presidential Limousine "almost came to a stop, a dead stop"; in fact, he has had nightmares about this. [C-SPAN, 11/20/93, "Journalists Remember The Kennedy Assassination"; see also the 1/94 "Fourth Decade": article by Sheldon Inkol];
2) ABC Reporter Bob Clark (rode in the National Press Pool Car)---Reported on the air that the limousine stopped on Elm Street during the shooting [WFAA/ ABC, 11/22/63];
3) UPI White House Reporter Merriman Smith (rode in the same car as Clark, above)---"The President's car, possibly as much as 150 or 200 yards ahead, seemed to falter briefly" [uPI story, 11/23/63, as reported in "Four Days", UPI, p. 32];
4) DPD motorcycle officer James W. Courson (one of two mid-motorcade motorcycles)--"The limousine came to a stop and Mrs. Kennedy was on the back. I noticed that as I came around the corner at Elm. Then the Secret Service agent [Clint Hill] helped push her back into the car, and the motorcade took off at a high rate of speed." ["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 129];
5) DPD motorcycle officer Bobby Joe Dale (one of two rear mid-motorcade motorcycles)---"After the shots were fired, the whole motorcade came to a stop. I stood and looked through the plaza, noticed there was commotion, and saw people running around his [JFK's] car. It started to move, then it slowed again; that's when I saw Mrs. Kennedy coming back on the trunk and another guy [Clint Hill] pushing her back into the car." ["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 134];
6) Clemon Earl Johnson---"You could see it [the limo] speed up and then stop, then speed up, and you could see it stop while they [sic; Clint Hill] threw Mrs. Kennedy back up in the car. Then they just left out of there like a bat of the eye and were just gone." ["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 80];
7) Malcolm Summers---"Then there was some hesitation in the caravan itself, a momentary halt, to give the Secret Service man [Clint Hill] a chance to catch up with the car and jump on. It seems to me that it started back up by the time he got to the car "["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 104];
8) NBC reporter Robert MacNeil (rode in White House Press Bus)---"The President's driver slammed on the brakes---after the third shot " ["The Way We Were, 1963: The Year Kennedy Was Shot" by Robert MacNeil (1988), p. 193];
9) AP photographer Henry Burroughs (rode in Camera Car #2)---" we heard the shots and the motorcade stopped." [letter, Burroughs to Palamara, dated 10/14/98];
10) DPD Earle Brown---" The first I noticed the [JFK's] car was when it stopped..after it made the turn and when the shots were fired, it stopped." [6 H 233];
11) DPD motorcycle officer Bobby Hargis (one of the four Presidential motorcyclists)---" At that time [immediately before the head shot] the Presidential car slowed down. I heard somebody say 'Get going.' I felt blood hit me in the face and the Presidential car stopped almost immediately after that." [6 H 294; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb and Perry Adams (1974), p. 71; 6/26/95 videotaped interview with Mark Oakes & Ian Griggs: "That guy (Greer) slowed down, maybe his orders was to slow down slowed down almost to a stop." Like Posner, Hargis feels Greer gave Oswald the chance to kill Kennedy.];
12) DPD D.V. Harkness---" I saw the first shot and the President's car slow[ed] down to almost a stop I heard the first shot and saw the President's car almost come to a stop and some of the agents [were] piling on the car." [6 H 309];
13) DPD James Chaney (one of the four Presidential motorcyclists)---stated that the Presidential limousine stopped momentarily after the first shot (according to the testimony of Mark Lane; corroborated by the testimony of fellow DPD motorcycle officer Marion Baker: Chaney told him that " at the time, after the shooting, from the time the first shot rang out, the car stopped completely, pulled to the left and stopped Now I have heard several of them say that, Mr. Truly was standing out there, he said it stopped. Several officers said it stopped completely." [2 H 44-45 (Lane)---referring to Chaney's statement as reported in the "Houston Chronicle" dated 11/24/63; 3 H 266 (Baker)];
14) DPD motorcycle officer B.J. Martin (one of the four Presidential motorcyclists)---saw JFK's car stop " just for a moment." ["Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71];
15) DPD motorcycle officer Douglas L. Jackson (one of the four Presidential motorcyclists)---stated " that the car just all but stopped just a moment." ["Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71];
16) Texas Highway Patrolman Joe Henry Rich (drove LBJ's car)---stated that " the motorcade came to a stop momentarily." ["Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71];
17) DPD J.W. Foster---stated that " immediately after President Kennedy was struck the car in which he was riding pulled to the curb." [CD 897, pp. 20, 21; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 97];
18) Secret Service Agent Sam Kinney (driver of the follow-up car behind JFK's limo)---indicates, via his report to Chief Rowley, that Greer hit the gas after the fatal head shot to JFK and after the President's slump to the left toward Jackie. [18 H 731-732]. From the HSCA's 2/26/78 interview of Kinney: "He also remarked that 'when Greer (the driver of the Presidential limousine) looked back, his foot must have come off the accelerator' Kinney observed that at the time of the first shot, the speed of the motorcade was '3 to 5 miles an hour.'" [RIF#180-10078-10493; author's interviews with Kinney, 1992-1994];
19) Secret Service Agent Clint Hill (follow-up car, rear of limo)---" I jumped from the follow-up car and ran toward the Presidential automobile. I heard a second firecracker-type noise SA Greer had, as I jumped onto the Presidential automobile, accelerated the Presidential automobile forward." [18 H 742; Nix film; "The Secret Service" and "Inside The Secret Service" videos from 1995];
20) Secret Service Agent John Ready (follow-up car)---" I heard what sounded like fire crackers going off from my post on the right front running board. The President's car slowed " [18 H 750];
21) Secret Service Agent Glen Bennett (follow-up car)---after the fatal head shot "the President's car immediately kicked into high gear." [18 H 760; 24 H 541-542]. During his 1/30/78 HSCA interview, Bennett said the follow-up car was moving at "10-12 m.p.h.", an indication of the pace of the motorcade on Elm Street [RIF#180-10082-10452];
22) Secret Service Agent "Lem" Johns (V.P. follow-up car)---" I felt that if there was danger [it was] due to the slow speed of the automobile." [18 H 774]. During his 8/8/78 HSCA interview, Johns said that "Our car was moving very slowly", a further indication of the pace of the motorcade on Elm Street [RIF# 180-10074-10079; Altgens photo];
23) Secret Service Agent Winston Lawson (rode in the lead car)---" I think it [the lead car on Elm Street] was a little further ahead [of JFK's limo] than it had been in the motorcade, because when I looked back we were further ahead." [4 H 352], an indication of the lag in the limo during the assassination.;
24) Secret Service Agent William "Tim" McIntyre (follow-up car)---"He stated that Greer, driver of the Presidential limousine, accelerated after the third shot." [RIF#180-10082-10454: 1/31/78 HSCA interview];
25) Mrs. Earle ("Dearie") Cabell (rode in the Mayor's car)---the motorcade "stopped dead still when the noise of the shot was heard." [7 H 487; "Accessories After the Fact" by Sylvia Meagher (1967), p. 4; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71];
26) Phil Willis---" The [Presidential] party had come to a temporary halt before proceeding on to the underpass." [7 H 497; "Crossfire" by Jim Marrs (1989), p. 24];
27) Mrs. Phil (Marilyn) Willis---after the fatal head shot, "she stated the Presidential limousine paused momentarily and then sped away under the Triple Underpass." [FBI report dated 6/19/64; "Photographic Whitewash" by Harold Weisberg (1967), p. 179];
28) Mrs. John (Nellie) Connally (rode in JFK's limo)---JFK's car did not accelerate until after the fatal head shot. [4 H 147; WR
50; "Best Evidence" by David Lifton (1988), p. 122];
29) Texas Governor John Connally (rode in JFK's limo and himself a victim of the assassination)---" After the third shot, I heard Roy Kellerman tell the driver, 'Bill, get out of line.' And then I saw him move, and I assumed he was moving a button or something on the panel of the automobile, and he said 'Get us to a hospital quick' at about this time, we began to pull out of the cavalcade, out of line." [4 H 133; WR50; "Crossfire" by Jim Marrs (1989), p. 13];
30) Dallas Morning News reporter Robert Baskin (rode in the National Press Pool Car)---stated that " the motorcade ground to a halt." ["Dallas Morning News", 11/23/63, p. 2; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71];
31) Dallas Morning News reporter Mary Woodward (Pillsworth)---" Instead of speeding up the car, the car came to a halt."; she saw the President's car come to a halt after the first shot. Then, after hearing two more shots, close together, the car sped up. [2 H 43 (Lane); DMN, 11/23/63; 24 H 520; "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" 1988]. She spoke forcefully about the car almost coming to a stop and the lack of proper reaction by the Secret Service in 1993. [C-SPAN, 11/20/93, "Journalists Remember The Kennedy Assassination"; see also the 1/94 "Fourth Decade": article by Sheldon Inkol];
32) AP photographer James Altgens---"He said the President's car was proceeding at about ten miles per hour at the time [of the shooting] Altgens stated the driver of the Presidential limousine apparently realized what had happened and speeded up toward the Stemmons Expressway." [FBI report dated 6/5/64; "Photographic Whitewash" by Harold Weisberg (1967), p. 203] "The car's driver realized what had happened and almost if by reflex speeded up toward the Stemmons Expressway." [AP dispatch, 11/22/63; "Cover-Up" by Stewart Galanor (1998), Document 28];
33) Alan Smith---" the car was ten feet from me when a bullet hit the President in the forehead the car went about five feet and stopped." ["Chicago Tribune", 11/23/63, p. 9; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71];
34) Mrs. Ruth M. Smith---confirmed that the Presidential limousine had come to a stop. [CD 206, p. 9; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 97];
35) TSBD Supervisor Roy Truly---after the first shot " I saw the President's car swerve to the left and stop somewheres down in the area [it stopped] for a second or two or something like that I just saw it stop." [3 H 221, 266];
36) L.P. Terry---" The parade stopped right in front of the building [TSBD]." ["Crossfire" by Jim Marrs (1989), p. 26];
by Vince Palamara
37) Ochus V. Campbell---after hearing shots, "he then observed the car bearing President Kennedy to slow down, a near stop, and a motorcycle policeman rushed up. Immediately following this, he observed the car rush away from the scene." [22 H 845];
38) Peggy Joyce Hawkins---she was on the front steps of the TSBD and " estimated that the President's car was less than 50 feet away from her when he was shot, that the car slowed down almost coming to a full stop." ["Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 97];
39) Billy Lovelady---"I recall that following the shooting, I ran toward the spot where President Kennedy's car had stopped." [22 H 662];
40) An unnamed witness---from his vantage point in the courthouse building, stated that "The cavalcade stopped there and there was bedlam." ["Dallas Times Herald", 11/24/63; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 97];
41) Postal Inspector Harry Holmes (from the Post Office Annex, while viewing through binoculars)---"The car almost came to a stop, and Mrs. Kennedy pulled loose of him and crawled out over the turtleback of this Presidential car." [7 H 291]. He noticed the car pull to a halt, and Holmes thought: "They are dodging something being thrown." ["The Day Kennedy Was Shot" by Jim Bishop (1967), p. 176];
42) Peggy Burney---she stated that JFK's car had come to a stop. ["Dallas Times Herald", 11/24/63; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 97; interestingly, during the 11/20/93 C-SPAN "Journalists Remember" conference, Vivian Castleberry of the Dallas Times Herald made the claim that her first cousin, Peggy Burney, was Abraham Zapruder's assistant "and was next to him when he shot his famous film. She called and said, 'Vivian, today I saw the President die.'"!---See Sheldon Inkol's article on this conference in the January 1994 "Fourth Decade"];
43) David Broeder--"The President's car paused momentarily, then on orders from a Secret Service agent, spurted ahead." ["Washington Evening Star", 11/23/63, p. 8];
44) Sam Holland---stated that the Presidential limousine slowed down on Elm Street. [taped interview with Holland conducted in April, 1965];
45) Maurice Orr---noted that the motorcade stopped. [Arch Kimbrough, Mary Ferrell, and Sue Fitch, "Chronology", unpublished manuscript; see also "Conspiracy" by Anthony Summers, pages 20 & 23];
46) Mrs. Herman (Billy P.) Clay---"When I heard the second and third shots I knew someone was shooting at the President. I did not know if the President had been hit, but I knew something was wrong. At this point the car President Kennedy was in slowed and I, along with others, moved toward the President's car. As we neared the car it sped off." [22 H 641];
47) Mrs. Rose Clark---"She noted that the President's automobile came almost to a halt following the three shots, before it picked up speed and drove away." [24 H 533];
48) Hugh Betzner---"I looked down the street and I could see the President's car and another one and they looked like the cars were stopped then the President's car sped on under the underpass." [19 H 467];
49) John Chism---after the shots he saw "the motorcade beginning to speed up." ["Crossfire" by Jim Marrs (1989), p. 29];
50) Bill Newman---after the fatal head shot "the car momentarily stopped and the driver seemed to have a radio or phone up to his ear and he seemed to be waiting on some word. Some Secret Service men reached into their car and came out with some sort of machine gun. Then the cars roared off "; "I've maintained that they stopped. I still say they did. It was only a momentary stop, but" ["Crossfire" by Jim Marrs (1989), p. 70; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 96] "I believe Kennedy's car came to a full stop after the final shot." ["JFK: Breaking The Silence" by Bill Sloan (1993), p. 169] "I believe it was the passenger in the front seat [Roy Kellerman]---there were two men in the front seat---had a telephone or something to his ear and the car momentarily stopped. Now everywhere that you read about it, you don't read anything about the car stopping. And when I say "stopped" I mean very momentarily, like they hit the brakes and just a few seconds passed and then they floorboarded [sic] and accelerated on." [11/20/97 videotaped interview with Bill Law, Mark Row, & Ian Griggs, as transcribed in "November Patriots" by Connie Kritzberg & Larry Hancock (1998), p. 362] "One of the two men in the front seat of the car had a telephone in his hand, and as I was looking back at the car covering my son, I can remember seeing the tail lights of the car, and just for a moment they hesitated and stopped, and then they floorboarded [sic] the car and shot off." ["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 96];
51) Charles Brehm---"Brehm expressed his opinion that between the first and third shots, the President's car only seemed to move some 10 or 12 feet. It seemed to him that the automobile almost came to a halt after the first shot. After the third shot, the car in which the President was riding increased its speed and went under the freeway overpass and out of sight." [22 H 837-838];
52) Mary Moorman---"She recalls that the President's automobile was moving at the time she took the second picture, and when she heard the shots, and has the impression that the car either stopped momentarily or hesitated and then drove off in a hurry." [22 H 838-839];
53) Jean Hill---"The motorcade came to almost a halt at the time the shots rang out and I would say it [JFK's limo] was just approximately, if not---it couldn't have been in the same position, I'm sure it wasn't, but just a very, very short distance from where it had been. It [JFK's limo] was just almost stunned." [6 H 208-209; Hill's testimony on this matter was dramatized in the Oliver Stone movie "JFK" (1991): "The driver had stopped-I don't know what was wrong with that driver." See also "JFK: The Book of the Film" (1992), p. 122. Therein is referenced a March 1991 conversation with Jean Hill.];
54) James Leon Simmons---"The car stopped or almost stopped." [2/15/69 Clay Shaw trial testimony; "Forgive My Grief Vol. III" by Penn Jones, p. 53; "High Treason" by Groden & Livingstone (1990 Berkley Edition), p. 22];
55) Norman Similas---"The Presidential limousine had passed me and slowed down slightly." ["Liberty" Magazine, 7/15/64, p. 13; "Photographic Whitewash" by Harold Weisberg (1967), p. 233];
56) Presidential Aide Ken O'Donnell (rode in the follow-up car)---" If the Secret Service men in the front had reacted quicker to the first two shots at the President's car, if the driver had stepped on the gas before instead of after the fatal third shot was fired, would President Kennedy be alive today? [as quoted in Marrs' "Crossfire", p. 248, based off a passage from O'Donnell & Powers' book "Johnny, We Hardly Knew Ye"] On page 40 of O'Donnell's book "Johnny, We Hardly Knew Ye", the aide reports that "Greer had been remorseful all day, feeling that he could have saved President Kennedy's life by swerving the car or speeding suddenly after the first shots." Indeed, William E. Sale, an airman first class aircraft mechanic assigned to Carswell AFB and who was stationed at Love Field before, during, and after the assassination, stated that "when the agent who was driving JFK's car came back to Air Force One he was as white as a ghost and had to be helped back to the plane *[undated Sale letter, provided to the author by Martin Shackelford];
57) Presidential aide Dave Powers (rode in the follow-up car)---" At that time we were traveling very slowly At about the time of the third shot, the President's car accelerated sharply." [7 H 473-475]. On 11/22/88, Powers was interviewed by CBS' Charles Kuralt. Powers remarked about the remorse Greer felt about not speeding up in time to save JFK"s life and agreed with Kuralt that, if Greer had sped up BEFORE the fatal head shot instead of afterwards, JFK might still be alive today [CBS, 11/22/88---this is a very dramatic and compelling short interview]. If that weren't enough, the ARRB's Tom Samoluk told me that, during the course of an interview he conducted in 1996 in which the Board was in the process of obtaining Powers' film, Powers said that he agreed with my take on the Secret Service!;
58) Texas Senator Ralph Yarborough (rode in LBJ's car)---" When the noise of the shot was heard, the motorcade slowed to what seemed to me a complete stop (though it could have been a near stop) After the third shot was fired, but only after the third shot was fired, the cavalcade speeded up, gained speed rapidly, and roared away to the Parkland Hospital."; " The cars all stopped. I put in there [his affidavit], 'I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but for the protection of future Presidents, they [the Secret Service] should be trained to take off when a shot is fired." [7 H 439-440; "Crossfire" by Jim Marrs (1989), p. 482; see also "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" 1988: "The Secret Service in the car in front of us kind of casually looked around and were rather slow to react."];
59) First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy (rode in the Presidential limousine)---"We could see a tunnel in front of us. Everything was really slow then [immediately after shooting] And just being down in the car with his head in my lap. And it just seemed an eternity And finally I remember a voice behind me, or something, and then I remember the people in the front seat, or somebody, finally knew something was wrong, and a voice yelling, which must have been Mr. Hill, "Get to the hospital," or maybe it was Mr. Kellerman, in the front seat.We were really slowing turning the corner [Houston&Elm] I remember a sensation of enormous speed, which must have been when we took off those poor men in the front" [5 H 179-181] Mary Gallagher reported in her book: "She mentioned one Secret Service man who had not acted during the crucial moment, and said bitterly to me, 'He might just as well have been Miss Shaw!'" ["My Life With Jacqueline Kennedy" by Mary Barelli Gallagher (1969), p. 342---Secret Service Agent Marty Venker and Jackie biographer C. David Heymann confirm that this unnamed agent was indeed Greer ("Confessions of an Ex-Secret Service Agent", p. 25; "A Woman Called Jackie", p. 401)] Jackie also told Gallagher that "You should get yourself a good driver so that nothing ever happens to you" [ibid., p. 351] * William Manchester, who interviewed Greer, tells us what the driver told Jackie on 11/22/63 at Parkland Hospital: "Oh, Mrs. Kennedy, oh my God, oh my God. I didn't mean to do it[?!?!], I didn't hear[who, Kellerman?], I should have swerved the car[how about hitting the gas!], I couldn't help it[!]. Oh, Mrs. Kennedy, as soon as I saw it[?] I swerved. If only I'd seen it in time! Oh!" (Manchester, p.290). 59 witnesses (10 police officers, 7 Secret Service agents, 37 spectators, 2 Presidential aides, 1 Senator, Governor Connally, and Jackie Kennedy) and the Zapruder film document Secret Service agent William R. Greer's deceleration of the presidential limousine, as well as his two separate looks back at JFK during the assassination (Greer denied all of this to the Warren Commission-2HGREER[see his entire testimony]). By decelerating from an already slow 11.2 mph, Greer greatly endangered the President's life, and, as even Gerald Posner admitted, Greer contributed greatly to the success of the assassination. When we consider that Greer disobeyed a direct order from his superior, Roy Kellerman, to get out of line BEFORE the fatal shot struck the President's head, it is hard to give Agent Greer the benefit of the doubt. As ASAIC Roy H. Kellerman said: "Greer then looked in the back of the car. Maybe he didn't believe me"("The Death of a President" by William Manchester, p.160). Clearly, Greer was responsible, at fault, and felt remorse. In short, Greer had survivor's guilt.
But, then, stories and feelings changed.
Agent Greer to the FBI 11/22/63: "Greer stated that he first heard what he thought was possibly a motorcycle backfire and glanced around and noticed that the President had evidently been hit [notice that, early on, Greer admits seeing JFK, which the Zapruder proves he did two times before the fatal head shot occurred]. He thereafter got on the radio and communicated with the other vehicles, stating that they desired to get the President to the hospital immediately [in reality, Greer did not talk on the radio, and Greer went on to deny ever saying this during his WC testimony] Greer stated that they (the Secret Service) have always been instructed to keep the motorcade moving at a considerable speed inasmuch as a moving car offers a much more difficult target than a vehicle traveling at a very slow speed. He pointed out that on numerous occasions he has attempted to keep the car moving at a rather fast rate, but in view of the President's popularity and desire to maintain close liaison with the people, he has, on occasion, been instructed by the President to "slow down". Greer stated that he has been asking himself if there was any thing he could have done to have avoided this incident, but stated that things happened so fast that he could not account for full developments in this matter(!) [the "JFK-as-scapegoat" theme and so much for Greer's remorse from earlier the same day!]."(Siebert & O'Neill Report, 11/22/63)
Agent Greer to the FBI 11/27/63: "She heard a noise which sounded like a motorcycle backfire. On hearing this noise he glanced to his right toward Kellerman and out of the corner of his eye noticed that the Governor appeared to be falling toward his wife [notice that Greer now mentions nothing about seeing JFK hit---he does the same thing in his undated report in the WC volumes (18 H 723)] He thereafter recalls hearing some type of outcry after which Kellerman said, "Let's get out of here." He further related that at the time of hearing the sound he was starting down an incline which passes beneath a railroad crossing and after passing under this viaduct, he closed in on the lead car and yelled to the occupants and a nearby police motorcyclist, "Hospital, Hospital! [nothing about using the radio this time out]" Thereafter follows a complete physical description of Greer, as if the FBI agents considered him a suspect, inc. age, height, and color of eyes! (Siebert & O'Neill Report, 11/29/63)
Critical excerpts from Greer's 3/9/64 Warren Commission testimony before Arlen Specter: Mr. Specter. Were you able to see anything of President Kennedy as you glanced to the rear? Mr. Greer. No, sir; I didn't see anything of the President, I didn't look, I wasn't far enough around to see the President. Mr. Specter. When you started that glance, are you able to recollect whether you started to glance before, exactly simultaneously with or after that second shot? Mr. Greer. It was almost simultaneously that he had--something had hit, you know, when I had seen him. It seemed like in the same second almost that something had hit, you know, whenever I turned around. I saw him start to fall. Mr. Specter. Did you step on the accelerator before, simultaneously or after Mr. Kellerman instructed you to accelerate? Mr. Greer. It was about simultaneously. Mr. Specter. So that it was your reaction to accelerate prior to the time-- Mr. Greer. Yes, sir. Mr. Specter. You had gotten that instruction? Mr. Greer. Yes, sir; it was my reaction that caused me to accelerate. Mr. Specter. Do you recollect whether you accelerated before or at the same time or after the third shot? Mr. Greer. I couldn't really say. Just as soon as I turned my head back from the second shot, right away I accelerated right then. It was a matter of my reflexes to the accelerator. Mr. Specter. Was it at about that time that you heard the third shot? Mr. Greer. Yes, sir; just as soon as I turned my head [ ] Mr. Specter. To the best of your current recollection, did you notice that the President had been hit? Mr. Greer. No, sir; I didn't know how badly he was injured or anything other than that. I didn't know. Mr. Specter. Did you know at all, from the glance which you have described that he had been hit or injured in any way? Mr. Greer. I knew he was injured in some way, but I didn't know how bad or what. Mr. Specter. How did you know that? Mr. Greer. If I remember now, I just don't remember how I knew, but I knew we were in trouble. I knew that he was injured, but I can't remember, recollect, just how I knew there were injuries in there. I didn't know who all was hurt, even. Mr. Specter. Are you able to recollect whether you saw the President after the shots as you were proceeding toward Parkland Hospital? Mr. Greer. No; I don't remember ever seeing him any more until I got to the hospital, and he was lying across the seat, you know, and that is the first I had seen of him. Mr. Specter. Your best recollection is, then, that you had the impression he was injured but you couldn't ascertain the source of that information? Mr. Greer. Right. I couldn't ascertain the source.
Warren Commission finding: "The driver, Special Agent William R. Greer, has testified that he accelerated the car after what was probably the second shot...The Presidential car did not stop or almost come to a complete halt after the firing of the first shot or any other shots."(WC Report, page 641)
11/19/64 interview with "Death of a President" author William Manchester [RIF#180-10116-10119]---"After the second shot I glanced back. I saw blood on the Governor's white shirt, and I knew we were in trouble. The blood was coming out of his right breast. When I heard the first shot, I had thought it was a backfire. I was tramping on the accelerator and at the same time Roy was saying, let's get out of here fast."
But remember what Roy Kellerman said: "Greer then looked in the back of the car. Maybe he didn't believe me"("The Death of a President" by William Manchester, p.160).
2/28/78 HSCA interview [RIF#180-10099-10491]---"The first shot sounded to him like a backfire. He did not react to it. After the second shot he turned to his right and saw blood on Governor Connally's shirt. At the same moment he heard Kellerman say "We're hit. Let's get out of here," or words to that effect. He said he immediately accelerated and followed the pilot car to Parkland Hospital [However, DNC Advance man Jack Puterbaugh, who rode in the pilot car, said they "pulled over and let the motorcade pass" (HSCA interview 4/14/78). The Washington Post from 2/28/85 reported Greer as saying that "I just looked straight ahead at the car in which the police chief was leading our way to the hospital"---this is the lead car. Nevertheless, the Daniel film and still photos depict the limousine AHEAD of the lead car, as it appear it was the lead motorcyclists who actually guided Greer to Parkland! (see pp. 21-22 and 59 of "The Third Alternative" by the author)]
Bill Greer passed away from cancer on 2/23/85.
The End?---
The following is from a 9/17/91 interview with Bill Greer's son Richard:
When asked, "What did your father think of JFK," Richard did not respond the first time. When this author asked him a second time, he responded: "Well, we're Methodists..and JFK was Catholic..." (Bill Greer was born and raised in County Tyrone, Ireland; 2 H 112 - 113)
"My father certainly didn't blame himself; it's not one of those things - if only I was driving one mile per hour faster
"My father had absolutely no survivor's guilt...he figured that events were kind out of their control...it was pretty common knowledge that a person riding in an open car was subject to a bullet at any time..."
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(based on the original 1991 article "47 Witnesses" that appeared in "The Third Decade", Jan/March 1992, and which has since been cited in "The Third Decade"[11/92], "The Fourth Decade[11/93 and 9/97], "Proceedings of the Second Research Conference of the Third Decade, 6/18-6/20/93", pages 128 & 162, "The Proceedings of the Research Conference of the Fourth Decade, 7/19-7/21/96", p. 277, [1997], pages 20& 53, the website "The Puzzle Palace", "Assassination Science" [1998], p. 274, "Bloody Treason" [1997], Z-frame 313 photo section, "November Patriots" [1998], p. 465, and the 1998 revised version of "High Treason", p. 551)
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http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_...Issue/59_1.html
B..
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Dave your link lead to a nice little history lesson, just what is it supposed to prove? No one disputes that optical printers existed for a long time. So the Army got some in WWII. So just when exactly are YOU going to get around to citing a single movie made around the time of or before the assassination that utilized such extensive compositing and doesn't look obviously faked? And since you seem to be implying that the Army's printers were used maybe even a movie made in 1942 or earlier.
dgh03: it's called education for the uninformed, such as yourself -- honestly, you're a 'real' piece of work, aren't you? One only has to perform a few "google' searches and have all pertinent data at you're fingertips -- but not the Gang -- roflmao! They don't read film industry journals, don't read books, don't consult film industry experts, terrified of interviews, they don't need too, they got the Len! ROFLMAO -- can't tell us what RZavada perfected, nor WHEN..... nice try, Gary!
Dave now that I've got you dancing on the end of my string again why don't you reply to my last post on the other thread?
dgh03: oh, Len or whomever you are.... checkout Bernice's contribution in the other thread, regarding the Nix film.....
they have remailers in South America? LOL!
<snipped the rest>
Dave what do you hope to accomplish by harping on points that are not being contended? Doing so makes you look like an idiot. I never denied that compositing and optical printers pre-dated the Kennedy assassination. I'm truly puzzled as why you want to keep "proving" that and then imagine you'd scored some big victory. I don't care if da Vinci had drawn a prototype optical printer in one of his notebooks or if compositing was used in 'Birth of a Nation'. For the umpteenth time the question is not could they do compositing back then but rather 1) could it have been done in a way that doesn't look obviously faked like most compositing does? 2) Could compositing as complex as what Costella claims was done possible then? 3) Could it have been done undetectably? Zavada among others have closely examined the film and said compositing would have left "tell tale" signs.
You will of course say all of this was possible back then. You say we should believe you because you have decades of experience with video and filmmaking and specialize in post-production. You are Fetzer and Company's resident compositing expert. However when asked if you have any experience in compositing you say your experience is irrelevant and tell us to look up a book and some magazines which are not widely available.
When asked if there were any movies made at the time of or before the assassination that would meet the 3 criteria cited above you say there were many but when asked to name one you instead tell us to read that book and those magazines again. Get real – put up or shut up!! Tell us prey tell the title of one movie that meets all three criteria above (or at least 1 and 2). If you can't at least be a man about it and admit you don't know of any such movies.
It's also interesting to see you've gone back to your habit of only replying to 1 or 2 points in my post and not responding to most, I guess they left you stumped!! One of the questions you avoid giving us a straight answer to is when the original alterations and switch were done.
As to Bernice's post, there were 2 different references to the Nix film neither of which proves very much. The first was an excerpt from Livingstone. He seems to presume that the other films weren't altered argues that there are discrepancies between the Zapruder and Nix films which prove that the Z-film was altered. This is in contradiction to your argument that both films were altered to match each other.
" The Zapruder film shows events not present in other films… The Nix film shows him (SSA - Clint Hill) with his arms around her (Jackie) placing her in the back seat... We do not see Hill put his arms around Mrs. Kennedy in the Zapruder film, but instead see him only reach towards her outstretched hand...One might conclude the (Zapruder) film was altered before Hill testified in 1964… the (other) films show entirely different scenes."
I've only seen low resolution copies of the Nix film but Clint Hill's movements look the same in both films to me. If you think there is something to this, post links to high resolution copies of that segment of both films. I also think it's odd that if so many discrepancies exist only Livingstone would have noticed.
The other was an indirect quote from Orville Nix as interviewed by Mark Lane. With out knowing the history, seeing the tape or at least having a direct quote it hard to judge: "(Nix) relates that when he received his film back from the authorities, they had damaged and ruined some of the frames within, and others were missing...a frame here and there also...it was not the same as he had given to them…"
IIRC UPI had possession of the Nix film before the Feds got their hands on it and copies were made. Are there differences between the various copies? Do they all show Zapruder and Stizman on the pedestal? Other than damaged and missing frames what other changes did he believe were made? How many times did he see his film before handing over a copy to the government? How much time went by between when last saw it before giving it to the Feds and when he got it back?
**********************************************
Hi All:
Here is further information on Orville Nix's film....his interview with Mark Lane...and also
informing us that UPI did Not ever have possession of his film, before he gave it to the Federal authourities..
Where he believed the shot or shots came from as well what SS Agent Forrest Sorrells said to him.
Also information from his grand daughter.....on the teatment of his original film, that he Never received back,
but about which there were excuses made by the Archives and UPI..and how he was teated over his inquiries, and how he also was treated by CBS in helping with the "Beyond JFK" documentary....
Orville Nix :
"Rush to Judgment "was the title of a book written by Mark Lane and published not long after the JFK Assassination..(1966)..
The book takes issue with the conclusions of the Warren Commission and suggests that there was a conspiracy to assassinate John F. Kennedy.
(Video.also titled "Rush To Judgment.".Begins with the date.. Feb. 1964) a 1966 film documentary about the John F Kennedy Assassination that was directed by Emile de Antonio and hosted by Mark Lane. It is a black and white film, 122 minutes long. It has also been shown on BBC TV since 1967 as part of the much longer (300 minutes) film entitled "The Death of Kennedy".
Included are several video clips showing Dealey Plaza how it existed in 1963 and 1966, clips of Lee Harvey Oswald .Dallas Chief of Police Jesse Curry, Dallas District Attorney Henry Wade, Jack Ruby and his defense attorney Melvin Belli..
Some of the assassination witnesses who present their observations on-camera include Abraham Zapruder, James Tague, Charles Brehm, Mary Moorman, Jean Hill, Lee Bowers,Sam Holland, James Simmons, Richard Dodd, Jessie Price, Orville Nix, Patrick Dean, Napoleon Daniels, Nancy Hamilton, Joseph Johnson, Roy Jones, and Cecil McWatters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_to_Judgment
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Orville Nix Verbatim from the Video....
Mark Lane: "Mr.Nix .Where were you on November 22nd ?.."
Orville Nix: "I was standing on the corner of Main and Houston "..(Sts).
Mark Lane: "And did you take any pictures of the Presidental Limousine as it went through Dealey Plaza ?.."
Orville Nix: "Yes, I had taken pictures before and after --before and during the assassination "..
Mark Lane: "And you know of course that your pictures were used by the Government to determine where the limousine was when some of the shots were fired ?"..
Orville Nix: "Yes "..
Mark Lane:"And did you deliver a copy of your film to the Federal Government ?"..
Orville Nix:"Yes, I delivered a copy of my film to the Federal Government about December 1st "..
Mark Lane:"About a little over a week after the assassination ?"..
Orville Nix:"Yes, my film got lost in the processing plant !"..
Mark Lane: "Where is the original film ?"..
Orville Nix: "The original film --uh--belonged to United Press International .The Government has a duplicate copy "..
Mark Lane: " Where is that copy ?"..
Orville Nix: " In the Archives"..
Mark Lane:"And is that the duplicate copy which was used by the Warren Commission determining along with other films, the Muchmore film and the Zapruder film where the Presidential limousine was when some of the shots were fired ?"..
Orville Nix: "I would say so"..
Mark Lane: "Well you now have a copy, of your film which you were kind enough to show to us this afternoon .Is that copy the same as the original that you gave to the FBI on December 1st ?"..
Orville Nix: " I would say, No--- there is some films maybe missing---some --uh--frames--uh--some of the frames were ruined "..
Mark Lane :"Does the film which you have at the present time ,have the same number of frames as the film that you delivered to the FBI on December 1st ?"..
Orville Nix: "--uh--I would say No--but its' cause of loosing maybe a --uh--frame --uh--here and there "..
Mark Lane :" At the time of the shots were fired ,did you look at the Book Depository building ?"..
Orville Nix :" No"..
Mark Lane : " Did you think ,at that time ,that the shots came from the Book Depository ?"..
Orville Nix : "No, I thought it came from a fence --uh--between the Book Depository and the Railroad Track"..
Mark Lane:"--uh--Did anyone else ,who you know, that you've spoken with ,also believe that the shots came from there "..
Orville Nix: " Most everyone thought it came from the fence behind the Book Depository "..
Mark Lane :"Did you have the occasion to speak with Forrest Sorrels ---who is of course a friend of yours ,and is the Secret Service agent in charge of Dallas that day ?"..
Orville Nix:" Yes, I did "..
Mark Lane : "Did he tell you where the thought the shots came from ?"..
Orville Nix : " He thought they came from the same place"..
Mark Lane : " Which is ?"..
Orville Nix: "Behind the fence"..
Mark Lane : " At the present time where do you believe the shots came from ?"..
Orville Nix : " Well they came from the Book Depository because there's proof it did come from there "..
Mark Lane :" I see---and this you've read in Newspapers and you've read the Report ?"..
Orville Nix :" Yes,--er-- I believe the Warren Report"..
*****************************************end of his interview on tape****
Orville Nix:
Conspiracy Beliefs (and Denials) In High Places..
By Vince Palamara
According to Orville Nix, a Dealey Plaza eyewitness who filmed the assassination and who was a good friend of Sorrels (Nix was an air-conditioning repairman for the General Service Administration in the Dallas Secret Service Building), Sorrels told him that the shots came from the grassy knoll. ["Rush To Judgment" film by Mark Lane; see also Who's Who in the JFK Assassination by Michael Benson, 1993, p. 314]
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/beliefs.htm
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Orville Nix..
JFK: How the Media Assassinated the Real Story...
From Real History Archives
http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v1n2/...assination.html
Although Salant asserts to this day that CBS was only after the truth, a recently released documentary indicates otherwise. Danny Schechter's "Beyond JFK: The Question of Conspiracy," features Walter Cronkite conceding that CBS News in 1970 censored Lyndon Johnson's own doubts about the lone-assassin theory. Cronkite tells Schechter that Johnson invoked "national security" to get CBS to edit out his remarks long after they had been captured on film. Cronkite and CBS, of course, reflexively complied.
But perhaps nothing revealed CBS's prejudice in the series more tellingly than the network's treatment of Orville Nix, a man who was wielding a movie camera across from the grassy knoll on that fateful day. Nix, who had worked for the General Service Administration as an air conditioning repairman in the Dallas Secret Service building, sold his footage to UPI for $5000 in 1963. But, according to his granddaughter Gayle Nix Jackson, the film only brought him heartache.
"The FBI had issued a dictum to all of Dallas's film labs that any assassination photos had to be turned over to the FBI immediately," recalls Gayle Jackson. "The lab called my granddad first and, like the good American he was, he rushed it to the FBI." Nix had to turn his camera over to the FBI as well. "They took the camera for five months. They said they needed to analyze it. They returned it in pieces," recalls Jackson. In 1967 Nix dutifully turned out for the CBS re-creation. Recalls his granddaughter: "His turn came to reenact what he saw. They said, 'Mr.Nix. where did the shots come from?' He said, `From over there on that grassy knoll behind the picket fence.' Then it would be, `Cut!' We went through this six or seven times and each time it was, `Cut!' And then a producer stepped forward and said, `Orville where did the Warren Commission say the shots came from?' My granddad said, `Well, the Texas Book Depository.' The producer said, `That's what you need to say.'" CBS producer Bernard Birnbaum, who worked on the documentary, denies the exchange. "We never tried to put any words in anybody's mouth, absolutely not," he told the "Voice." Birnbaum says CBS did give Warren Commission critics air time and cites a segment of the documentary where another eyewitness contends shots came from the grassy knoll. "We were looking to disprove everything," he insists.
According to Jackson, her grandfather also told CBS that there were four shots fired during the assassination, an observation subsequently endorsed by the House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1975, based on controversial acoustical evidence. But what did the CBS viewing audience hear from Nix? "Bang, bang, bang," as if to suggest that Nix also subscribed to the three-bang theory.
After being browbeaten by CBS, Orville Nix, a normally mild-mannered man, became furious. "He was hitting the steering wheel on the ride back home saying, `Why are they trying to make me feel like I am insane?'" Jackson recalls. She remembers that a year or so later, when District Attorney Jim Garrison called for Nix to testify, her grandfather wouldn't talk. He was afraid for his life.
How many other witnesses experienced the Orville you-never-heard/saw-that phenomenon we will never know. But one other was Kenny O'Donnell, a confidant and adviser to JFK who was in the motorcade. In Tip O'Neill's book Man of The House, O'Neill describes a conversation with O'Donnell, who told him he was sure that two shots had come from the fence behind the grassy knoll. O'Neill said to O'Donnell, "That's not what you told the Warren Commission." O'Donnell responded, "You're right, I told the FBI what I had heard, but they said it couldn't have happened that way and that I must have been imagining things. So I testified the way they wanted me to. I just didn't want to stir up any more pain and trouble for the family."
Since Orville Nix's death in 1988, his granddaughter, a former loss-prevention executive, has been waging a one-woman war to get the original film back from UPI. She wants it analyzed to reveal the details that a copy does not provide. "You know my granddad believed in the Texas handshake, and that is how he made his deal with UPI." According to Jackson, the rights to the film were to revert to Nix's estate in 1988. After initially getting a green light from UPI for the return of the film, the then-media giant informed her that the attorney that granted her request was "no longer with the company." She was told to wait until 1991. Then on June 4, 1991, came a note from UPI's general counsel, Frank Kane. "UPI agrees that, in accordance with the oral agreement . . . UPI hereby releases all rights over the Nix Film to Mr. Nix's heirs and assigns." There was only one problem. UPI no longer had the film. Jackson received a letter saying the film had gone to the Warren Commission and was supposedly housed in the National Archives. With the Warren Commission out of business, she contacted the National Archives only to learn that the original was not there either.
The last official place the film was said to have been was in the House Select Committee on Assassinations files. That Committee was convened in 1975 to investigate the assassinations of John Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, and Martin Luther King. The chief counsel for the HSCA, G. Robert Blakey, who has a penchant for gagging his staff via mandatory secrecy oaths, came clean with Nix's granddaughter about the fate of the family heirloom, says Jackson. "Blakey's the only one who takes full responsibility for the loss of the film because it was his committee that was supposed to assure that all evidence was returned to the rightful owner," Jackson says. So much for posterity's view of the grassy knoll on November 22, 1963. A former HSCA staff member, Gaeton Fonzi, recalls that back at the time of the hearings the staff "heard rumors that Blakey planned to classify all of the committee files, but we didn't believe them because that would be too reminiscent of what the Warren Commission had done." In fact many of the files were classified and this same man, Blakey, is the one who has been recently assigned to help draft legislation about what will be released from the original Kennedy assassination files.
***************************************
Orville Nix:
How Credible Is The Warren Commission..
From The John F.Kennedy Assassination
Homepage..
During the testimonies of the 395 witnesses, the examination went about 300 times off the record, merely at crucial point and sometimes up to 7 and 8 times per witness. The most interesting case is the testimony of Patrick T. Dean. The counsel accused him of perjury and had threaten him with the loss of his job. Later, Dean requested to be heard before the Commission and told his story for the record, so we know about it today.
Among the 489 witnesses, only 395 appeared to testify, less than a fourth (94) before the Commission itself. And during these testimonies, the Commission was never present as a body or throughout the full length. [5] Although the Chairman was present at least on all 94 examinations, the estimated numbers of the other members were:
Representative Ford 70
Mr. Dulles 60
Senator Cooper 50
Mr. McCloy 35
Representative Boggs 20
Senator Russell 6
Nobody of the Commission heard one of the witnesses who appeared before the Counsel (over 350), among them crucial witnesses such as Forrest V. Sorrels, Billy Lovelady, Abraham Zapruder, Domingo Benavides, George DeMohrenschildt, Jean L. Hill, James Tague (was wounded during the assassination!!!) and Sylvia Odio. Some witnesses never appeared before the Commission: James Chaney (saw JFK when he was shot at the head, saw him struck in the face), Bill and Gayle Newman (stood on Grassy Knoll, said shots came from behind), Charles Brehm (closest bystander when JFK was hit), J.C. Price (told he saw a man with rifle running behind the wooden fence on Grassy Knoll), Milton Jones (said the FBI sought for Oswald after he left the bus although nobody knew him yet), James Simmons (told the shots came from Grassy Knoll), Richard Dodd (told about shot and smoke behind the fence), Ray Rushing (told he saw Ruby 2 hours before Oswald shooting in the police headquarter although he was claimed to be at home), Marvin Robinson (saw Oswald left with a Rambler station wagon from the Texas School Book Depository), Ralph Yarborough (was next to LBJ and said he smelled smoke when passing the Grassy Knoll). [6]
Many witnesses told about alterations of her testimonies, such as Jean Hill, Phil Willis, Orville Nix, James Tague, Sam Holland, Roger Craig, Chester Breneman and Robert West (Reenactment figures), and Julia Ann Mercer. Mercer even told about the faking of her signature by the FBI. [7]
I hope this gives you a slight idea of the credibility of the Warren Report. A complete destroying of the report in comparison to the witnesses' testimonies can be found in Silvia Meagher's book "Accessories after the fact". A few of the arguments I will cite here to answer the other questions.
http://www.jfk-assassination.de/faq.php
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In reply to a statement, in the previous thread..... that Zapruder was standing with his back to the TSBD, at the time Zapruder heard the shot behind him...and that behind him was not the corner fence area..where some believe shots came from.......the corner to my knowledge was not mentioned..?
In the WC testimony: Mr.Zapruder says......"then I started yelling, "They killed him, they killed him," and I just felt that somebody had ganged up on him and I was still shooting the pictures until he got under the underpass--I don't even know how I did it...... And then, I didn't even remember how I got down from that abutment there,...... but there I was, I guess, and I was walking toward--back toward my office and screaming,........ "They killed him, they killed him," ..excerpt continues below...
"At 9:55 p.m. Dallas time on November 22..United States PRS Special Agent Maxwell D. Phillips sent a hand-written memo (Warren Commission Document, CD87) to U.S. Secret Service Chief James Rowley that accompanied one of the first generation copies said of Zapruder's origins of at least one shot, "According to Mr Zapruder the position of the assassin was behind Mr Zapruder." Behind Mr. Zapruder was the Dealey Plaza grassy knoll However, (by the time) in his testimony to the Warren Commission Zapruder was less certain.."
From the Warren Commission:
Mr. LIEBELER - 313--you remember that one?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - That was--that was the horrible one.
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, as the car came in line almost--I believe it was almost in line. I was standing up here and I was shooting through a telephoto lens, which is a zoom lens and as it reached about--I imagine it was around here--I heard the first shot and I saw the President lean over and grab himself like this (holding his left chest area).
Mr. LIEBELER - Grab himself on the front of his chest?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Right---something like that. In other words, he was sitting like this and waving and then after the shot he just went like that.
Mr. LIEBELER - He was sitting upright in the car and you heard the shot and you saw the President slump over?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Leaning--leaning toward the side of Jacqueline. For a moment I thought it was, you know, like you say, "Oh, he got me," when you hear a shot--you've heard these expressions and then I saw---I don't believe the President is going to make jokes like this, but before I had a chance to organize my mind, I heard a second shot and then I saw his head opened up and the blood and everything came out and I started--I can hardly talk about it [ the witness crying].
Mr. LIEBELER - That's all right, Mr. Zapruder, would you like a drink of water? Why don't you step out and have a drink of water?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - I'm sorry--I'm ashamed of myself really, but I couldn't help it.
Mr. LIEBELER - Nobody should ever be ashamed of feeling that way, Mr. Zapruder. I feel the same way myself. It was a terrible thing.
Let me go back now for just a moment and ask you how many shots you heard altogether.
Mr. ZAPRUDER - I thought I heard two, it could be three, because to my estimation I thought he was hit on the second--I really don't know. The whole thing that has been transpiring--it was very upsetting and as you see I got a little better all the time and this came up again and it to me looked like the second shot, but I don't know. I never even heard a third shot.
Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't hear any shot after you saw him hit?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - I heard the second--after the first shot--I saw him leaning over and after the second shot--it's possible after what I saw, you know, then I started yelling, "They killed him, they killed him," and I just felt that somebody had ganged up on him and I was still shooting the pictures until he got under the underpass--I don't even know how I did it...... And then, I didn't even remember how I got down from that abutment there,...... but there I was, I guess, and I was walking toward--back toward my office and screaming,........ "They killed him, they killed him," and the people that I met on the way didn't even know what happened and they kept yelling, "What happened, what happened, what happened?" ....
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/zapruder.htm
When Mr.Zapruder took the "horrible one" see Frame 313...he was almost , facing the limo, almost in line..is what he relates..""Well, as the car came in line almost--I believe it was almost in line"". his back would be towards the, pergola, the parking lot behind, and to his right, behind him was the wooden fence behind the Pergola.....see the camera alignment in frame 313 at the site below....it is not to the back of the limo when the head shot was received, it is almost in line of the Limo....as Mr.Zapruder stated..imo
""Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, as the car came in line almost--I believe it was almost in line.""
At 9:55 p.m. Dallas time on November 22..United States PRS Special Agent Maxwell D. Phillips sent a hand-written memo (Warren Commission Document, CD87) to U.S. Secret Service Chief James Rowley that accompanied one of the first generation copies said of Zapruder's origins of at least one shot, "According to Mr Zapruder the position of the assassin was behind Mr Zapruder." Behind Mr. Zapruder was the Dealey Plaza grassy knoll However, (by the time) in his testimony to the Warren Commission Zapruder was less certain..
Below the "awful "one..is Zapruder frame 313.......if you open this site and have a look at the frames, please check..
Frame 317..in this one you will notice that the President has the top of his head, hair and a forehead,....and a large wound which appears to the side of his head...in the temple area.....
Then check frame 326... and imo you will see that the President no longer has ,a top to his head, nor forehead..
Then skip to frame 374 , and the side of his head is totally gone......IMO...I have no idea why ?, but that is what I see.....
http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/?
Thanks for your time....
B..
-
Pat wrote:
I'm not sure about the Altgens reference but Rather has admitted many times that he simply made a mistake when he described Kennedy's reaction to the shots. He saw Kennedy get hit in the head, fall back onto the seat and fall over on the seat. Rather says he simply forgot about the back-and-to-the-left motion as he ran back to the station. He has never suggested that the film he saw that day was any different than the film as shown today. People make mistakes reporting things. It doesn't mean they are part of any conspiracy.
dgh01: What reason Pat do you suppose he had/has in NOT correcting his error, EARLER. He forgot about viewing the film of the century
Since by the time Rather saw the film he wasaware of the gun in the TSBD, and since, unlike Hoover, he had an understanding of the layout of Dealey Plaza, it's possible he'd expected to see evidence for a shot from behind and that this poisoned his ability as an impartial witness.
dgh01:I proffer; he, Rather knew he blew it; had no intention of standing in front of a national tv/radio audience and admit he made a mistake
******************************
Further Information on Dan Rather and exactly what he
stated and didn't.....and Nix's information about his film..
From: "Forward with Considerable Violence"..by John Kelin............Link below..
As Rather tells the story, he viewed the film in the office of Abraham Zapruder's lawyer, then dashed several blocks (the exact number is in dispute) to a broadcast facility.
Hughes Rudd: Dick, ah, Dan Rather just came into the studio, ah and we've just been discussing this statement just made by Texas Attorney General Wagoner Carr about a full and complete investigation that is going to be carried out and so on ... what do you have that's new, anything?
Dan Rather: Well I'm not sure that this is the proper context in which to put it ... but as you may know Hughes I, I ... have just returned from seeing a ... a movie ... which clearly shows in some great detail the exact moments preceding, the exact moments of, the President's assassination which clears up some of the points that had been rather vague up until this time. Now may not be the time or the place to discuss that, perhaps Dick uh ...
Richard Hotelett: No I think it is ... uh, Dan ... I think it fits right into the context of what we've been saying.
Dan Rather: Well let me tell you then, give you a word picture of the motion picture that we have just seen. The President's automobile which was proceeded by only one other car containing Secret Service Agents ... the President's open black Lincoln automobile ... made a turn, a left turn off of Houston Street in Dallas onto Elm Street, this was right on the fringe area of the downtown area. This left turn was made right below the window from which the shot was fired ... as the car made the turn completed the turn went below the window from which this shot was fired ... went on past the building keep in mind the window was on the sixth floor ... it got about 35 yards from the base of the building that is if you had dropped a plumb line from the window to the sidewalk to the President's car was around 35 yards from that spot ... President Kennedy had just put his right hand up to the side of his right eye, it appeared that he was perhaps brushing back his hair or rubbing his eyebrow. Mrs. Kennedy was not looking in his direction. In front of them in the jump seat of the Lincoln ... were Governor and Mrs. Connally. The Governor as was the President was on the side of the car of the building in which the assassin was located. Mrs. Kennedy and Mrs. Connally were on the opposite side, two Secret Service men on the front seat. At almost the instant the President put his hand up to his eyebrow ... on the right side of his face, with Mrs. Kennedy looking away ... the President lurched forward just a bit, uh, it was obvious he had been hit in the movie but you had to be looking very closely in order to see it. Mrs. Kennedy did not appear to be aware that he was hit but Governor Connally in the seat just in front of the President ... seemly heard the shot ... or sensed that something was wrong ... Governor Connally whose coat button was open turned in such a way to extend his right hand out towards the President and the Governor seemed to have a look on his face that might say, "What is it? What happened?! and as he turned he exposed his entire shirt front and chest because his coat was unbuttoned ... at that moment a shot very clearly hit the part of the Governor. He was wounded once with a chest shot, this we now know ... uh the Governor fell back in his seat ... Mrs. Connally immediately fell over the Governor, uh, I say fell, she threw herself over the Governor ... and at that instant the second shot the third shot total but the second shot hit President Kennedy and there was no doubt there, his head ... went forward with considerable violence ... Mrs.. Kennedy stood up immediately her mouth wide open ... the President slumped over against Mrs. Kennedy almost toppling her over as she was standing ... Mrs. Kennedy then threw herself out of the back seat of the car onto the trunk of the car almost on all fours stretched out over the trunk of the car ... there was a Secret Service man standing on the back bumper ... it would appear that Mrs. Kennedy was either trying to get herself out of what she knew instinctively was danger or perhaps was trying to grab the Secret Service man and pull him into the back seat of the car for help at any rate Mrs. Kennedy was prone, uh face down on the back of the car on the trunk ... the Secret Service man leaned over put his hands on her shoulders and shoved her back into the car he seemed to be in danger of perhaps rolling or falling off the back. A Secret Service man in the front seat of the car uh was already on the telephone perhaps he had been on the phone all along it was not clear and the car sped away.
Richard Hotelett: The car never stopped did it!
Dan Rather: Thc car never stoppcd, it never paused.
Hughes Rudd: How long did all this take, Dan? In a matter of seconds.
Dan Rather: Well, the complete scene that I just described to you covers exactly 20 seconds that is from the time the car made the turn until the car disappeared onto an underpass.
Richard Hotelett: Is it clear, is it that the President was hit twice ?
Dan Rather: It was very clear that the President was hit twice. He was hit, Governor Connally was hit and the Gov ... uh the President was hit again.
Hughes Rudd: How long a time did the actual three shots take from the first shot until the final shot, Dan?
Dan Rather: Not more than five seconds and I ... am inclined to think slightly less than that perhaps.
Hughes Rudd: There [sic] must have been very grim pictures to watch, especially today.
Richard Hotelett: What was the source of these pictures, Dan?
Dan Rather: An amateur photographer, had an 8 millimeter color uh camera he had positioned himself up off the side walk on an old street lamp base, he was above the heads of the crowd and was facing the automobile.
Richard Hotelett: Of course he was focused on the automobile so there's no indication of where the shots came from.
Dan Rather: No, he was focused on the automobile with his back or side to the window from which the shots came. Only the automobile was shown in the film.
More follows...
http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_i...e/d_rather.html
From Fairplay Magazine..
also interview seen in...Pictures of the Pain, pages 86 to 89)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following article originally appeared in the July 22, 1977 issue of "The Continuing Inquiry."
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Dan Rather Blinked
by Penn Jones, Jr
The greatest criminal in this nation, we think, is a dishonest newsman. Newsmen have been given the highest gift a nation can give a group: a right. Newsmen have been given this right of freedom of the press and freedom of speech in the expectation they would report the truth as honestly as humanly possible. Ordinary criminals kill individuals, but dishonest newsmen are involved in killing a nation--in this case, this democracy. Which brings us to native Texan Dan Rather, a longtime Houstonian, and his new book, The Camera Never Blinks.
Rather's book is somewhat like Jim Bishop's The Day Kennedy Was Shot. At least a month's work would be required to correct the many errors Jim Bishop and Rather each foist on the readers. We limit our criticisms of the Rather book to the sections dealing with CBS coverage of President Kennedy's visit to Dallas. Rather was chief of the Dallas bureau.
The omissions, errors, distortions, and untruths in Rather's book are just too great and too numerous to be dismissed as unintentional inaccuracies or harmless forgetfulness. Back in Dallas after having been moved from there to New Orleans just a few weeks before President Kennedy's assassination, Rather played a major role that day in all the events for CBS. For a young newsman with such an important assignment on his hands, we find it strange that he would take a side trip that morning. Rather reports he went to Uvalde, Texas for an after-breakfast meeting with former Vice President John Nance Garner at his home there, but he doesn't mention the distances involved. He does not bother to tell his readers it was a six hundred mile round trip and that he was back in Dallas before the President's parade.
That kind of timing would have required a jet, we think. Whose jet, Rather didn't say.
Back in Dallas before noon, Rather says he discovered the most important film drop location on the Dallas motorcade route had been left unmanned. "...so I picked up a yellow grapefruit bag and..." went to the assignment which he says was only four blocks away. Somehow, according to Rather, on return it became five blocks. Actually it was nine blocks from the Dallas Times Herald building which was Rather's headquarters for the day.
It seems to us Rather used tangled logic in picking a spot to catch film from a moving vehicle. Not content with Dealey Plaza where the cars actually slowed to four miles per hour, he opted to be on the opposite side of the Dealey Plaza railroad underpass--just out of the kill area, where he knew the cars would be traveling much faster than in Dealey Plaza. The motorcade was to end the parade at the underpass and speed on out to the Trade Mart which was the luncheon site.
So Rather chose his position to catch this important film, but failed to tell us if he ever got the film. Failed to tell what the film showed.
Rather selected a spot which required that he catch the film from a truck which would be traveling at least forty to fifty miles per hour. He does pause to tell that the press cars were placed well back in the motorcade and that this has subsequently been changed, after the assassination, so the press buses are now close to the President. He neglects to say the vehicles in the Dallas motorcade were jumbled, somehow, from their pre-planned and pre-numbered assignments.[1]
If Rather picked a puzzling location to catch the film, he chose an even stranger route back to the Times Herald Building for which he says he headed "at a full run." Then, "I topped the railroad grading a few yards away and paused long enough to shade my eyes and look for the camera truck. It was nowhere in sight."
The railroad dump is twenty-five feet high and there were then five sets of railroad tracks over that underpass. It seems likely the camera truck could have passed under Rather who was getting up on the tracks. But perhaps that strange detour was not really to search for the camera truck.
We feel Rather's eyewitness information dictated that he run to the railroad yards, even from the opposite side from Dealey Plaza where all the people were located. The railroad tracks behind the picket fence are where people and police ran immediately after the shots were fired. Some people were honest enough to say they found men in the railroad track area who had guns,[2] and that some of the questionable characters flashed Secret Service credentials. The Secret Service has always insisted they had no men in the railroad area.
So Dan Rather waited to catch film just out of the kill area, saw the President's car rush past him, and ran where eyewitnesses told the Warren Commission the gunmen were located. These witnesses were untrained, without notebooks. They simply told what they saw. Rather, the professional, interviewed no one, did not take out his notebook, gave no testimony to the Warren Commission.
He says: "Perhaps I should have stopped and taken out my notebook, grabbing people and asking questions. But I needed only five seconds to make up my mind to hustle back to the station. I ran every step." Bravo.
But the biggest distortion is what he said he saw when he was one of the few persons in the world privileged to see the Abraham Zapruder film that Saturday morning, November 23. In his narration of the film as part of CBS nationwide television coverage, Rather said the President's head "went forward with considerable violence." This narration confirmed the so-called "Oswald position" for the nation, but he said nothing about the violent backward motion of the President's head which would have strongly suggested a second gunman at that early date. Rather does take care to tell us again that he took no notes.
Actually the President's head went forward for about three inches and then was slammed to the left rear--not consistent with a shot being fired from the "Oswald position" from behind President Kennedy.
His book says this about the incident: "At the risk of sounding too defensive, I challenge anyone to watch for the first time a twenty-two second film of devastating impact, run several blocks, then describe what they had seen in its entirety, without notes. Perhaps someone can do it better than I did that day. I only know that I did it as well and as honestly as I could under the conditions.
"But here is where the case gets tricky. Years later, a group of assassination buffs took an audio tape of my description of what I saw in the office of Zapruder's lawyer and laid it over the film as a narration. So the impression was given that Dan Rather was part of a conspiracy. Either that or he was a Communist dupe, or something, how else could he have seen the film, etc. etc."
No one that I know ever thought Rather was a Communist dupe. All I wanted Rather to do was admit his error to the television audience he had misinformed. Grudgingly, he admits the error in his book, but that is not the same as saying so on CBS evening news.
I paid a film company in California to have the voice of Rather synchronized to the action of the Zapruder film. I tried unsuccessfully to show the film to Rather.
My film was shown at the Democratic Convention held in Miami in 1972. Newsmen who saw the film were shocked at what they saw and immediately confronted Rather who reportedly said "No comment." On the tenth anniversary of the President's death we showed the film to Jim Mangrum head of Associated Press for Texas. The showing was in my home. Mangrum was so upset he called Rather, but was unable to reach him until the next day.
Mangrum called me to inform that Rather said he made "an honest error."
Here is how Rather slides by his incorrect description, the only possible narration depicting the actual shooting of the President that the nation had that Saturday: "...Regrettably, it was not without error, in terms of what was unsaid about the movement of the President's head. A few who had tried to sell themselves as assassination experts misused that account to build themselves a false premise.
"It is gruesome even now, and always will be, to talk about this scene, but the single most dramatic piece of the film is the part where the President's head lurches slightly forward, then explodes backward. I described the forward motion of his head. I failed to mention the violent, backward reaction. This was, as some assassination buffs now argue, a major omission. But certainly not deliberate."
All those who have seen the film (and it is now possible for everyone, with no thanks due to LIFE), know the President's head did not go as Rather said, "...forward with considerable violence." The head went backward and to the left with terrific violence. In fact, physicists say the force was so great the bullet must have weighed one pound, or more likely was a round of explosive ammunition.
The handling of the Zapruder film has been dishonest from the beginning. LIFE paid a tremendous price with the stated purpose of withholding the film from the people. This done by a group to whom the people had granted the right of freedom of the press so the people could be informed.
The public first saw the film during the famous 1968 Claw Shaw trial in New Orleans as then District Attorney Jim Garrison got a copy of the film from LIFE by court order. He showed the film at least thirteen times to the jury and to the entire courtroom audience. All were shocked. One of the two rulings made by that jury was that there was a conspiracy that killed President Kennedy. The other jury ruling was that Clay Shaw was not involved. That jury determination would be different in light of 1976 CIA documents revealing Shaw was CIA.
Years later we learned LIFE had delivered to Garrison a copy of the film deliberately made fuzzy or out of focus which hid much of the incriminating evidence. But at the time, no one was able to know LIFE had deliberately withheld this evidence in violation of the Federal courts order.
Only in 1973 when Robert Groden came forward with his clear copy of the famous film did we know of LIFE's contempt for truth, for Garrison and for the Federal courts. The Groden clear copy of the film was stolen directly from the LIFE files and is now available to the public from this writer.
The film convincingly shows the culpability of both LIFE and Dan Rather, and it also indicated the depths of despair the American people now experience because of these men and institutions who have so blatantly violated the sacred right given to them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the following article Mr. Jones comments further on Mr. Rather. This also first appeared in the July 22, 1977 "Continuing Inquiry."
Pissants Come Cheap
by Penn Jones, Jr
Dan Rather's first introduction to Lyndon Johnson was a 1955 insulting tirade by Johnson at his ranch: "...I damned well don't know who this rude pissant is..."[3] a scene Lyndon loved to stage, followed by a soothing performance by Lady Bird. And if you bought the act, you could join the inner circle.
Rather worked to be inside. His wife was from Smithville, Texas, the home of Cliff Carter, Johnson's top aide after the Walter Jenkins ouster.
Rather was not the only Houstonian who was wooed into the Johnson fold early, with loud unreasoning bellowing and then soft touches. The successful Houston advertising agency headed by Jack Valenti went on the market just a couple of weeks before President Kennedy's ill-fated Texas visit. Valenti told friends in October that he was going to Washington.
As luck would have it then, Valenti was free to join the Presidential party at a Houston stop--then crouched on the platform in Houston while Kennedy was speaking.[4]
Valenti, at the request of Vice President Johnson, joined the party for the Dallas trip and left Dallas as an aide to the new President.
http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_...sue/rather.html
Above also from Fairplay Magazine..
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Dan Rather: Quote..
Keep in mind, it was 25 feet,just up the side to the top of the railroad tracks..
" I ran quickly from where I was the other side of the railroad tracks, back over the railroad tracks and then this incredible scene in Dealey Plaza which is frozen in my mind forever was laid out in front of me..people screaming, Fathers on top of their children police with guns drawn , one policeman shouting words to the effect ""Don't panic." ..In that instant I said ""God ...I don't know what's happened but something really big has happened here.""
"As It Happened"..Frontline Nov.16/93
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Wrong From The Beginning...from Robert Groden's site..
http://www.jfkmurder.com/news.html
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Expert: Dan Rather Exaggerates Military Record
Wes Vernon, NewsMax.com
Wednesday, Jan. 16, 2002
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1213371/posts
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As for The Nix Film....below is what Orville states.....
Orville Nix..From Part two.page 8..
Zapruder Thread..
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...pic=3711&st=105
In the tape, "Rush to Judgement" Mark Lane....there is also an interview of Orville Nix, who also took a film of the assassination that day, he relates that when he received his film back from the authorities, they had damaged and ruined some of the frames within, and others were missing...a frame here and there also...it was not the same as he had given to them.......Orville also states when asked, if he ever looked at the TSBD when the shots were being fired, and he answers NO...he thought they came from the fence area....
Orville Nix was also a very good friend of SS Chief Forrest Sorrels, of Dallas,and that day saw him and spoke with him, after the assassination, and in talking he mentioned that he thought the shots had come from the fence area, and Mr Sorrels, also stated that he did too...
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1 :Dan Rather described the original Zapruder film that he saw, on CBS Radio,in Nov. 63...as being "exactly 20 seconds in length"....that by itself differs, the film in the National Archives is 27 seconds in length..has two splices ,and starts several hundred feet past the corner of Houston and Elm.
2: Rather.."...the President's open black Lincoln automobile....made a turn ,a left turn off of Houston Street onto Elm Street.....This left turn was made right below the window from which the shot was fired......."..This is not shown in the Zapruder film that we see.....the limo already is on Elm St..after it has made it's turn.....
3: Rather describes the Presidents limo as about 35 yards from the base of the building...the....TSBD, and putting his right hand up to the side of his right eye, and perhaps brushing his hair back..or rubbing his eyebrow.....At almost that instant he lurches forward a bit, and it was obvious he had been hit in the movie"..
In the film we see, the President is hit the first time, when he is hidden by the Stemmons Freeway Sign...Rather also does not mention at any time, the limo being hidden behind said sign...
4: Rather.."Mrs. Kennedy did not appear to be aware that he was hit but Governor Connally in the seat just in front of the President ..seemly heard the shot....or senses that something was wrong...Governor Connally whose coat button was open turned in such a way to extend his right hand out towards the President and the Governor seemed to have a look on his face that might say, "what is it? What happened ?" In turning he exposes the entire front of his shirt because his coat was unbuttoned...at that moment a shot hits the Governor.." He was wounded once with a chest shot, this we now know...uh the Governor fell back in his seat..."..We do know now that the Governor was hit by a bullet in the back...the exit wound was his chest...Rather describes the shot to the Governor as he is turned extending his hand to the President.
Nov. 29/63..Phone transcript Pres. Johnson and FBI Director Hoover.that does supports Rather's view...
LBJ: "How did it happen they hit Connally?".
H: "Connally turned to the President when the first shot was fired and I think in that turning it was where he got hit."
LBJ: "If he hadn't turned he probably wouldn't have got hit.?"
H: "I think that is very likely."
LBJ: "Would the President 've got hit ..the second one."
H: " No, the President wasn't hit with the second one."
LBJ: " I say ,if Connally hadn't been in his way?".
H: " Oh yes..yes the President would no doubt have been hit."
LBJ: "He would have been hit three times?"
H: "He would have been hit three times."
5: "Mrs. Connally immediately ...threw herself over the Governor..and at that instant the second shot, the third shot total, but the second shot hit President Kennedy, and there was no doubt his head...went forward with considerable violence ......" The opposite is seen in the Zapuduer film that we have access to....his head goes violently backwards .
6: "Mrs Kennedy stood up immediately......Mrs Kennedy was prone......uh face down on the back on the trunk.....The Secret Service man...( Hill) leaned over put his hands on her shoulders and shoved her back into the car she seemed to be in danger of perhaps rolling off the back..."
This is also corroborated by Clint Hill's testimony ..WC... but this is not what we see in the Zapruder film that is accessible to us..Mr. Hill never touches Mrs. Kennedy in the Zapruder film...
Could it be ?...that the Zapruder film viewed by Mr.Rather, and the Zapruder that is available, is not the same...witnesses state that shots were fired from the front and others also from the back, therefore, it is most likely there were shots from both directions..
Life magazine tried to explain that the film showed the President turning his body far around to the right as he was waving to the crowd..and that his throat was exposed towards the TSBD, just before he clutched it.....
Life..December 6, 1963.....also quoted in Crossfire...page 68..
But that failed also as we know......
Thanks for your time......B
-
I could not post previously the photo below, ran out of room.
B..
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Thanks, Ed, for posting the head shot. To my eyes this shot came from behind, impacting on the top of the head and leaving a large gutter wound. The autopsy photos and x-rays support this conclusion. So does the nose of the bullet found on the front seat, which was covered with SKIN.
Bernice, I'm glad you're gonna read my presentation. And thank you for your breakdown of the evidence.
But you don't seem to understand. I'm not some guy who came up with a theory. I'm someone who studied the evidence FULL-TIME for two years, and came to some conclusions as a result. You say you are a student of the early testimony. Then you should know that not one of the Dallas witnesses described an entrance on the side of the head and an exit at the back. Not one. They all describe one large wound. If Kilduff pointed to his temple, and Zapruder pointed to the side of his head, and Newman pointed to the side of his head, all within minutes of the assassination, then we should conclude the wound was on the side of the head, not the back. Furthermore, Dr. Clark, the only one in Dallas to inspect the head wound, testified it was a tangential wound, ONE large wound, on the side of Kennedy's head . If there was one large wound on the side of his head it is not any more an indication of a shot from the front then a shot from behind. The Harper fragment, windshield damage, and ballistics evidence all indicate the shot came from behind.
I know my findings will upset a lot of people, but I've been able to make sense of a lot of stuff that no one could make sense of. I'm convinced there was a conspiracy. I'm equally convinced that most of the research community is wrong in their assessment of what actually happened in the plaza.
As far as the earwitnesses, it's important to remember that when Newman and Zapruder siad they heard shots from behind, their backs were turned towards the arcade area, NOT the stockade fence. And I think it was Jean Hill who claimed to have heard a bunch of shots, not Moorman. Moorman said there were 2, then 4, then 3. I believe she's said 3 for some time now.
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First off, thank you Dr.Fetzer..and Ed..for your kind words..
Hi Pat:
Parkland and the Zapruder Film.......
Thanks for the reply...some further information I have compiled here, for any that may be interested.....
The confusion is within what we see in the Zapruder film, a huge blow out to the top of
J.F.Kennedy's head......and is not and was not seen , nor reported by any at Parkland.....
Until it was seen at Bethesda..
How can the Zapruder film show one observation on film...... and the Parkland professionals report another
when they were the first to see and treat his body, in trying to save his life....???
Without something being extremely wrong within the Zapruder Film?????
This is what they saw at Parkland Hospital........
This list is taken from "Murder In Dealey Plaza"..
The observations of the wounds.
At Parkland...the earliest statements.
.................................................Right Rear...........Right Side...........Right Anterior
1. William K.Clark, MD.......................X
2. Robert McClelland, MD.................. X
3. Marion T.Jenkins, MD..................... X
4. Charles J.Carrico, MD.................... X
5. Malcolm Perry, MD...................... . X
6. Ronald C.Jones, MD...................... X
7. Gene Akin, MD..............................X
8. Paul Peters, MD.............................X
9. Charles Crenshaw, MD................... X
10. Charles R.Baxter, MD....................X
11. Robert Grossman, MD...................X....................................X
12. Richard B.Dulany, MD...................X
13. Adolphe Giesecke, MD..................X...................................X.......................
...X
14. Fouad Bashour, MD......................X
15. Kennedth E.Salyer, MD.................X....................................X.......................
....X
16. Pat Hutton, RN.............................X
17. Doris Nelson, RN..........................X
18. William Greer, SS........................X
19. Clinton J.Hill, SS..........................X
20. Diana Hamilton Bowron, RN..........X
21, William Midgett............................X....................................X
What we see in the Zapruder.?????????????? is A huge blown out wound to the top of the head, and a blackened area within the back of his head....where the staff of the Parkland Hospital reported a back wound to the head......that all these professionals saw and attested to.....?????
I do hope your conclusions are not written in stone...as they are a decision and usually a final ending ....I do believe we have learned within the research community nothing stays the same...as the work proceeds...I know of many people who study full time,each and every day, and they also enjoy the research , we spend at times, way too many hours studying and gathering information, to suit what I shall call a normal person, who has not been bitten by the bug, a friend told me once we are all addicted...I do believe there is some truth in that statement, I have not come to any conclusions as yet, even in those areas where I believe I do see,within the information the many differences, I am still studying... I do try to keep an open mind...though at times it does get difficult..but we never know who will do a thesis, book whatever, that will be issued tomorrow, and have much merit within..and I am certainly open to such....I guess I am simply not satisfied with the many conflictions within said evidence documentation and all.....
After reading your last post, I wanted to ask you a question, in there you state that "The Harper fragment , windshield damage, and ballistics evidence all indicate the shot came from behind."..Do you think all shots came from behind..??
Yes, I regard all testimony as important, but do see and hear and read within the videos, books, articles etc, statements, from the many whose information was changed, in some way, and or most important to me, how some information they gave was left out of such statements.....like with Sam Holland...when it was released within the WC and DPD and such etc...his lengthy interview being done within weeks, of the assassination......and as seen, but one of many, in the "Rush to Judgement" Video by Mark Lane.......
I look towards the early reports as being the most informative, in that regard..and seeing how so very much changed..as in direct connection with what actually happened that day, and within the weeks that followed.. that I do find at times, some has been buried, perhaps fogotten, overlooked,deliberately altered within the written words or wherever, along the many years that have followed....some gems come to the surface..
My Point is, this is Not What is Seen in the Zapruder Film.....
It simply does not comply......In all of this information it is spoken of a blown out wound to the back of the Presidents Head......the seeing of such by many Doctors, Nurses at Parkland.......We look to the Zapruder film..and we see,
No blown out wound at the back of the head, be it tangential or avulsive.........It is Not seen...........but we do see blackened areas out in that area of his head.....and a huge blown out top of the head wound....??
That is the dilemma.....all these professionals...at Parkland did not see nor report a huge blown out head wound....not even Clark..
Yet there it is within the Zapruder film, and not seen within Parkland.
The men and women of Parkland, expressed that what they saw was a wound in the right occipital-parietal region in the right rear of the head behind the right ear...some saw brain matter extruding and there were I believe two others along with Dr.C.Crenshaw that stated he saw cerebellum extruding,( though there may be others I am forgetting) along with a complete loss of hair and scalp at the wound site..he also interrpreted as a classic bullet hole entrance wound in the anterior neck the size of the tip of one's little finger just prior to the tracheotomy by Dr.Perry...most saw a similar wound at Parkland...
The overwhelming majority of the Parkland witnesses, when asked to place their hand where the blown out wound was situated, put their right hand to the right rear of the head....see photo below..taken some years later....what was described as the blown out area...
Quote: Pat: "Furthermore Dr.Clark ,the only one in Dallas to inspect the head wound, testified it was a tangential wound ,ONE large wound ,on the side of Kennedy's head"..
But he didn't, Just say that...see below..
He also said it could have been either..Tangential or Avulsive..
out the back of Kennedy's head...
Dr. William Kemp Clark, Chief Neurosurgeon: WR 516-518/ 17 H 1-3 / CE 392
“..in the occipital region of the skull…there was a large wound in the right occipitoparietal region…” “Both cerebral and cerebellar tissue were extruding from the wound.”
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arr...tml/Image03.htm
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Also in his statement on Nov. 27th/63..in the Washington Star.see article that follows....
he stated.
Dr. Kemp Clark, a brain surgeon who was summoned to the emergency room of the Dallas hospital where the President was taken after the shooting, said in Dallas yesterday that a bullet did such massive damage to the right rear of the President's head that the attending surgeons could not tell whether it had entered or come out of the head there.
"A missile had gone in, or come out the back of his head, causing extensive lacerations and loss of brain tissue, " Dr. Clark said.
Dr. Clark said he was unable to say whether the wound in the President's neck, below the Adam's apple, was due to the same bullet that had coursed through the President's brain. He said there could have been two bullets. .
Also:From Vince Palamara......"JFK: THE MEDICAL EVIDENCE REFERENCE" 2003
DR. KEMP CLARK:
1.. WR 516-518/ 17 H 1-3 / CE 392 [undated summary; see also 21 H 150-152
:Clark's....11/23/63 report to Admiral Burkley with the verbatim summary . In
addition, see.."Assassination Science", pp. 416-418: this is an FBI report dated
11/25/63 which includes the verbatim summary to Burkley from 11/23/63]---"..in the occipitalregion of the skull…";"There was a large wound in the right occipitoparietal region…"; "Both cerebral and cerebellar tissue were extruding from the wound.";
2.. WR 524-525/ 17 H 9-10 /CE 392: handwritten report 11/22/63---"ThePresident was bleeding profusely from the back of the head . There was a large (3 x 3cm) remnant of cerebral tissue present…there was a smaller amount of cerebellar tissue present also";
"There was a large wound beginning in the right occiput extending into
the parietal region…";
3.. Parkland Press conference, 11/22/63, 3:16 PM CST ["Assassination
Science", pp. 427]---"
A missile had gone in or out of the back of his head…the back of his
head…I was busy with his head wound…The head wound could have been either the exit wound from the neck or it could have been a tangential wound, as it was simply a large, gaping loss of tissue.";
-----------------
Dr Kemp Clark: WC..
Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe the President's condition to be on your arrival there?
Dr. CLARK - The President was lying on his back on the emergency cart. Dr. Perry was performing a tracheotomy. There were chest tubes being inserted. Dr. Jenkins was assisting the President's respirations through a tube in his trachea. Dr. Jones and Dr. Carrico were administering fluids and blood intravenously. The President was making a few spasmodic respiratory efforts. I assisted. in withdrawing the endotracheal tube from the throat as Dr. Perry was then ready to insert the tracheotomy tube . I then examined the President briefly.
My findings showed his pupils were widely dilated, did not react to light, and his eyes were deviated outward with a slight skew deviation.
I then examined the wound in the Back of the President's head. This was a large, gaping wound in the right posterior part, with cerebral and cerebellar tissue being damaged and exposed.
Clark on the 2:30 press conference:
Mr. SPECTER - What, if anything, did you say then in the course of that press conference?
Dr. CLARK - I described the President's wound in his head in very much the same way as I have described it here. I was asked if this wound was an entrance wound, an exit wound, or what, and I said it could be an exit wound, but I felt it was a tangential wound.
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Posted by Mike Sylwester
Article from Washington Evening Star, 27 Nov 1963, page A-5
Excerpts:
[title] "White House Won't Talk on Kennedy Autopsy" By the Associated Press
The White House has so far declined to say whether an autopsy was performed on the body of
President John F. Kennedy. The body was at the Bethesda Naval Hospital for approximately nine hours last Friday night and early Saturday morning. Civilian morticians were called to the hospital to prepare the body for burial.
Doctors in Dallas who administered emergency treatment to the President said yesterday they do not know whether one or two bullets had hit him. However, Federal authorities seemedfairly certain it was two bullets.
One Washington source said, "There is some doubt whether the fatal bullet was the second shot or third shot. The first shot is believed to have hit the President, but we're not sure about the second and third."
Thus, he indicated, the first bullet to strike Mr. Kennedy might not have been fatal. One bullet struck Texas Gov. John Connally, wounding him.
Dr. Kemp Clark, a brain surgeon who was summoned to the emergency room of the Dallas hospital where the President was taken after the shooting, said in Dallas yesterday that a bullet did such massive damage to the right rear of the President's head that the attending surgeons could not tell whether it had entered or come out of the head there. "A missile had gone in, or come out the back of his head, causing extensive lacerations and loss of brain tissue, " Dr. Clark said. Dr. Clark said he was unable to say whether the wound in the President's neck, below the Adam's apple, was due to the same bullet that had coursed through the President's brain. He said there could have been two bullets.
Dr. Malcolm Perry of Dallas, who also treated the President after the shooting, had said onFriday that he was unable to determine whether one or two bullets were involved.
(end of article)..
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At Parkland the President was described as having an exit wound, that of an egg, to an orange in size at the right rear of the head, a rear-exit, or blowout ( avulsive) was the reason many of the Dallas doctors concluded the President had been shot in the head from the front. When at Bethesda, the wound had grown significantly larger, now encompassed much of the right hand side of the head.And at the bottom of the back of the head was a small hole designated by the autopsists as a bullet entrance wound...
The Dallas doctors were repeatedly asked, by Arlen Specter, about that entry wound. Might the doctor have seen “a little hole beneath the big hole”? Except for Dr. Kemp Clark, who said it might have been missed because of the blood and hair, the answer was no. One Dallas doctor after another answered Specter’s query the same way: “No.” There was no support for the “little hole” in the Dallas legal record. As far as the Dallas doctors were concerned, the back of Kennedy’s head only contained one thing: an exit wound.
It is one thing to talk about this matter in terms of wounds; but much easier to visualize in terms of trajectory, and using that language permits one to see all this in “political” language: In Bethesda, the President’s body appeared to have been shot twice from behind, from the direction of the Texas School Book Depository. In Dallas, the President’s body appeared to have been shot from the front.
I use the phrase “appeared to have been” deliberately, because the issue often arose as to whether a wound was not seen because, for some reason, it was not observed, or because it was not there. Debates about these matters often have a talmudic quality. Where was the observer standing? Exactly what could he see? Was there a flap of scalp that might have confused matters? Etc.
PRESS DESCRIPTIONS OF THE PRESIDENTS WOUNDS
"A wealth of discrepancies,distortions, and omissions impels one to conclude that the official autopsy report is unreliable; that the description of the President's wounds is innacurate ; that the single-missile theory is wholly unsupported by and in conflict with the evidence; that this theory respresents an attempt to salvage the case against Lee Harvey Oswald as a lone assassin; that the conclusions in the WR on the source,number,and perpetration of the shots are completely invalid; and that the evidence in fact constitutes proof of conspiracy.."..Sylvia Meagher...1967.
Press Descriptions:
"In the first days and weeks after the assassination news stories constantly revised the number, location, and nature of the President's wounds..
At Parkland Hospital according to the Doctors, he has suffered and entrance wound at the Adam's apple and a massive wound in the head."
New York World-Telegram and Sun: Nov.23/63..p.2
New York Times :Nov.24/63..p2.col 6.
New York Post : Nov.24/63..p2.col 3
"The official theory to account for those wounds was that the President had been shot while his car was approaching the Book Depository Building".
New York Herald-Tribune, Nov.27/63.pp1& 9
"That was soon dropped in favor of a new theory; that he was shot on Elm Street while the car was moving away from the Book Depository, when he turned backward to wave at the crowd".
Paul Mandel,"End to Nagging Rumors:" The Six Critical Seconds."
Life, Dec.4/63.p.52F,col 2.
"That was dropped in turn when films of the assassination showed that the President was facing forward at the strategic time.On site tests were conducted on Dec.5,1963 by the Secret Service-----presumably with the autopsy report in hand,Com.doc.at the NA consists of a receipt for various items ,including ""one copy of autopsy report and notes of the examing doctor"", turned over to Robert I.Bouck of the Secret Service Research Section by the White House physician on November 26,1963. The tests were conducted for the acknowledged purpose of determining how the President was shot in the front from behind."
The New York Times, Dec.6/63..p.6
"The experiment was not successful".
About 4 weeks after the assassination it became known that the SS had interviewed the Parkland doctors and informed of the autopsy findings.
(St.Louis Post-Dispatch,Dec18/63.)
A new version of the wounds was made public, which mentioned for the first time that the Pres. had been shot in the back.
(New YorkTimes,Washington Post,& St.Louis Post-Dispatch,Dec 18/63)
Some stories also said that the bullet that had struck his back "was found deep in his shoulder"
One story said the bullet had entered"five to seven inches below the collar line".
( Washington Post.Dec18/63 and May29/66 )
others said "several inches below the collar line"(The Washington Post said on May 29/66 that the information had been confirmed by the FBI before publication.)
It was now reported that the Parkland doctors now agreed that the entrance wound at the Adam's apple was now in reality an exit wound.
St.Louis Post-Dispatch,Dec.18/63..
Some reports of the autopsy findings that were leaked to the press contradicted each other as well as the official autopsy report ultimately published..
The New Tork Times stated on Dec.17/63,that the FBI report of Dec.9/63
revealed that one bullet had struck Kennedy where the right shoulder joins the neck and another had struck his RIGHT TEMPLE..
NY Times Dec.17/63.p31.cols 7-8.
The next day The NY Times published another report,from a "source fully acquainted with the results of the autopsy."
Now there was a small neat wound in the back that had penetrated two or three inches, and according to " the pathologists at Bethesda." the wound at the Adam's apple had been caused by a metal or bone fragment from the fatal head shot..
NY Times.Dec.18/63.p27,cols 4-6.
Within 24 hrs.The NY Times gave stillanother account, in which the pathologists were said to have found that the bullet in the back had lodged in Kennedy's body and that a second bullet had hit the RIGHT REAR of his HEAD...
NY Times.Dec 19/63, p23,col.1
The story added that a fragment of the bullet had passed out the front of the neck. More than a month later the Times was still reporting that a bullet had lodged in Kennedy's right shoulder.
NY Times.Jan 26/64,p.58,col.4
Thus for more than two months after the assassination the press asserted repeatedly that the first bullet to strike the President had entered several inches below the collar line and had lodged in the body. The same stories gave a variety of versions of the head wound: that a bullet had gone in and out of the back of the head according to Dr.Kemp Clark:
NY Post,Nov.24/63.p 2,col 3.
that a bullet struck the back of the head to the right;
NY Herald-Tribune,Nov.27/63.pp1 & 9.
that a bullet struck the right temple.
NY Times,Dec 17/63.p31,cols.7-8.
the back of the skull.
NY Times.Dec18/63.p.27,col5.
and the right rear of the head
NY Times Dec.29/63.col 1
The autopsy report, with it's presumably authoritative data, was not published: Dr.J.J. Humes, the chief autopsy surgeon, said that he had been forbidden to talk.
NY Times.Dec.6/63,p.18,col.7
"As one version of the wounds succeeded another with dizzying speed and confusion, only one constant remained: Oswald was the lone assassin and had fired all the shots from the sixth floor of the Book Depository. When facts came into conflict with that thesis ,the facts and not the thesis changed .Critics of the already implausible case against Oswald concluded from this that the truth was being suppressed and perverted in order to persuade the public, at all costs, to accept his sole guilt. Nothing that came to light later presented grounds for altering that conclusion..".
In Sept. 64 the WR provided the official version..According to the Report.
(1) President Kennedy was first struck by a bullet which entered at the back of his neck and exited through the lower front portion of his neck,causing a wound which would not necessarily have been lethal.The President was struck a second time by a bullet which entered the right-rear portion of his head,causing a massive and fatal wound.
(2) Goveror Connally was struck by a bullet which entered on the right side of his back and traveled downward through the right side of his chest,exiting below his right nipple.This bullet then passed through his right wrist and entered his left thigh where it caused a superficial wound.
WR.19
Elsewhere the Com expressed the view that the bullet had struck the Presdient first and exited through the front of his neck and then struck the Governor..and inflicted all his wounds.The Governor himself did not agree with that view, convinced he was hit by a second bullet after an earlier bullet struck the President.
Autopsy Report.
VOL.4.CE.387.. is Undated.
Chief Autopsy Surgeon: Commander J.J. Humes, burned his "preliminary draft notes"and handed over all other papers related to the report to "higher authorities",in a certificate dated Nov.24/63....but according to to his testimony he burnt the first draft of the autopsy report .(Vol.2.H 373)..He states all working papers had remained in his personal custody at all times: that his notes and handwritten draft of the final report were handed over to the commanding officer of the U.S.Medical School at 5pm.Nov.24/63.and that no papers remained in his possession.(Exh.CE 397.p48) Again conflict between the certification and the testimony: Humes told the Com.that the drawings of the wounds had been prepared on the basis of his memory and notes of the autopsy.(Vol.2H 349-350).These certificates suggest the official autopsy report was completed and handed over to the authorities two days after the death of the President.The document begins with a description of the circumstances of the assn.based,it is explained on "available information" and newspaper reports..
1.Absence of a date on autopsy report.
2.Unauthorized release of it's supported contents in Dec.63.
weeks after it was completed and handed over according to Dr.Humes.
3.Findings that were leaked, are completely inconsistant with the actual contents of the autopsy report.
4.On site tests by the SS.Dec.63,were based on findings different from those in the published autopsy report.
5.The certificates read as if they had been written, after a passage of time,as if to account for the disposition of documents at an earlier time.
Whether authentic or not,the evidence that the autopsy report was completed on Nov. 24/63..fails to account for the leaking of different autopsy findings on Dec.17 & 18th/63.or for the conduct of on site tests on Dec.5th. by the SS on the basis of findings other than those in the final document..
Information from "Accessories After The Fact"..Sylvia Meagher..
*******************************************
Some may be interested....in seeing some of these...
Vol. 6:
PARKLAND HOSPITAL DOCTORS/ NURSES/ PERSONELL---*********
Drs. Charles Carrico, Malcolm Perry, Kemp Clark, Robert McClelland,
Charles Baxter, Marion Jenkins, Ronald Jones, Donald Curtis, Faoud
Bashour, Gene Akin, Paul Peters, Adolph Giesecke, Jackie Hunt, Kenneth
Salyer, Martin White, Robert Shaw, Charles Gregory, Thomas Shires,
Richard Dulany; Nurses Jeanette Standridge, Jane Wester, Henrietta Ross,
Diana Bowron, Margaret Henchcliffe, Doris Nelson; R.J. Jimison, Darrel
Tomlinson, J.C. Price
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...h6/contents.htm
Also see Vol.17.
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...17/contents.htm
Master set of Medical Exhibits ARRB
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...et/contents.htm
Medical reports Doctors of Parkland.
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...eport_0270b.htm
********If anyone does get into any or all of this information..please watch for and take note of the many changes that occurred within.........as time lapsed...
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What we see in the Zapruder film and the wound descriptions at Parkland should be seen as similar, imo..they are not..there it seems is no connection, as to what is kown of the President's head wounds seen at Parkland and what is seen within the Zapruder film, that is why I connect the two, they should be compatible with each other but are not..
*********************************
Two Different Versions of the Zapruder Film
From:
Harrison E.Livingstone : "The Radical Right and the Murder of John F Kennedy".
"A film of the assassination was created for public consumption as a propoganda film. That film is known as the Zapruder film, named after Abraham Zapruder -----one of the amateur camera persons in Dealey Plaza who filmed portions of the assassination.
...The film was altered in haste ,and later further alterations were made as needed upon discovery of problems with the films...... Zapruder points out in his testimony to the Warren Commission that he was concerned about altered frames as a book of pictures ostensibly from his film were shown to him.."
Warren Commission:
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/zapruder.htm
Shaw Trial
1:http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony...ruder_shaw1.htm
2: http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony...ruder_shaw2.htm
"We sure would like to know how his testimony was manipulated or excised..
A major edit of the film occurs at 132 in the transition from frame 133. One half-block of the motorcade was removed as the limousine rounded the corner from Houston onto Elm . We do not see this , and the portion is gone that would have shown how the shots began and the fact that the limo stopped. A similar phenomena occurs in at least six other films where the same journey of the limo has been removed."
Zapruder Film:
http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/
"My investigation has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Zapruder never stopped his camera at that point , as he repeatedly told people , and that the film was cut and optically reframed so that there is no splice. Optical reframing is the method used when a film receives " special effects" or is altered. As is explained in my book on the film. "The Hoax of the Century", there are no flash frames or evidence of "first frame over exposure" at Z-133, the transition from the three motorcycles leading the motorcade to the limousine, and it is a jump cut. I have interviewed a leading film expert in the world as well as the inventors of the camera who were trying to prevent such flash frames, and it is a certainty that the camera always produced them when it was stopped and then restarted .We do not see them at this crucial transition from one scene to another in the film.
It is reasonable that there was another person operating a camera close by Zapruder with essentially the same perspective, perhaps in the "pill box" just behind Zapruder in the pergola. This film was the one that was flown to Kodak in Rochester N.Y, as testimony indicates ,altered, and Zapruder's film disappeared later on. During the massive shell game that was played with Zapruder's film before it was developed in Dallas. the other film was already in the air. " snip
Two Different Filmed Versions of the Assassination:
" The Zapruder film shows events not present in other films. For instance, Clint Hill testified:
Warren Commission:
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/hill_c.htm
Original Report:
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/sa-hill.htm
that he ran after the limousine when the shots began, and catching hold of the handle on the rear of the car, he crawled on his knees onto the trunk and grabbed at Jacqueline Kennedy ,who had crawled out on the trunk presumably to retrieve a portion of her husband's head. The Nix film shows him with his arms around her placing her in the back seat.
Nix Film:
http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/
He stated that he saw the back of the president's head lying in the back seat.
2H 141, 6H 290 :HSCA Report 235
"" The rear portion of his head was lying in the rear seat of the car.His brain was exposed ....There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head...snip..
She turned to me and I grabbed her and put her back in the back seat, crawled up on top of the back seat and lay there....""
" We do not see Hill put his arms around Mrs. Kennedy in the Zapruder film, but instead see him only reach towards her outstretched hand.At the moment their fingers seem to almost ,touch. Mrs. Kennedy turns and gets back into her seat without his help .One might conclude the film was altered before Hill testified in 1964. Others might think that Hill is mistaken ,but not when the films show entirely different scenes. Again, the weight of evidence takes into account the pattern in all of the instances of conflict we see here..
There may be more films in conflict with the ones we have seen at this point, and the film taken by Beverly Oliver ,as yet not see by anyone outside the government ,apparently shows entirely different events. This film was used by the FBI to reconstruct the crime in their headquarters in Washington .Readers are referred to the exposition of the facts from the FBI report and exhibit in my "Killing Kennedy and the Hoax of the Century." Many people have insisted that the limousine stopped or slowed way down. This is not what we see in the films....."....
********************************
Qoute: Pat "If Malcolm Kilduff in speaking to the Press that afternoon, had pointed to to his temple, ""........but he did not, he pointed to his right forehead at the hair line, a through and through head wound in the front and out the back....see photo.
Quote : Pat " The Harper fragment ,windshield damage ,and ballistic evidence all indicate the shot came from behind.." but there are other studies that point to evidence and information of shots from the front, we cannot ignore all those simpley for the opinion. of any one....We must consider all.....if we do not have a one-sided view and are keeping an open mind..
Within the windshield studies I do hope you have covered Doug Weldon's work as well as the others....as the witnessess who saw a through and through bullet hole...one being a Doctor, a nurse and Reporter...come to m nd,who related their information...
also back in April 2005...John Ritchson responded...
Greetings, if memory serves it was Dr. Malcomb Perry that first described the throat wound as an entrance wound of a size that was entirely consistant with having been made by a .22 caliber bullet. It is also a fairly common and somewhat strange phenomenon that bullets fired into the human gullet tend to deflect downwards into the lower abdominal
cavity due to the dynamics of terminal impact to the throat. In those cases i've personally studied this appears to be the rule rather than the exception.
In tests I've personally conducted firing through auto glass, if the projectile has sufficient spin and velocity it can remain relatively intact when it impacts the target and leave a fairly clean entrance wound as well as a fairly clean hole in the windshield.
***********************************
As far as the Harper fragment, I am not up on all, but there is also information from Charles Brehm within Mark Lanes video, where he in person as one of the closest witnesses to the Limo, relates that a piece flew over into the gutter in front of where he was standing..back and to the left of Mr.Kennedy..
There were 2 large fragments found in the front section one on a seat, one on the floor before midnight at the White House garage Nov.22/63....and 3 small fragments from the floor under the jump seat within the limo..Nov. 23/63...Though I cannot think of any others right now, there could have been more..?.When compared only the lead fragments were similar , and could not be ID as coming from the same bullet..I believe coming from memory..correct me if wrong..
************************
Quote: Pat : "" As far as the earwitnesses, it's important to remember that when Newman and Zapruder said they heard shots from behind, their backs were turned towards the arcade, NOT the stockade fence. And I think it was Jean Hill who claimed to have heard a bunch of shots, not Moorman, Moorman said there were 2, then 4, then 3, I believe she's said 3 for some time now.""..
Pat you are mistaken in your recollections in this area...it happens there is so very much information ..Zapruder stated behind him, many times....Newman stated behind him, and Mary Moorman did say the shots continued after what she thought was the first one...I did post verbatim, for all three..but to respond to your reply, I have copied verbatim, their two interviews from the Lane video, for your and the other members information.....See the following below..
As per the information I related in the other post.... Mary Moorman seen on the video " Rush To Judgement" Mark Lane. ....here is what she states on such..that she was in the line of fire, evidently...she does mention 3 or 4 shots....but then also says shots were still being fired...?
KLIF TV Interview on the afternoon of November 22/63..In regards to the shots coming in her direction..
Mary states...words verbatim as before......but full interview..from tape..
Mary: " And I took the picture...it so happened,my picture, when I took it,was at the same instant when the President was hit ..and that does show in my picture."...snip in film..
Interviewer: "Did you realise what had happened when you heard the shot..?
Mary: "No, no I didn't..though there was..oh.. three or four real close together and it was, uh... it must have been the first one that, that uh shot him, cause that's when I, that was the time I took the picture, and during that time after I took the picture ,and the shots were still being fired and I....... decided I better get on the ground .."
Interviewer: "You did lie down...?"
Mary: "I did....... We were, I was...oh... no more than 15 foot from the car,and in line of fire evidently."
Interviewer: "Did Mrs.Kennedy scream on the first shot ?"
Mary: " Aw...I don't know about the first shot but she did scream, she says .."" My God, he's been hit or he's been shot..""..
Interviewer: "Now the picture you took I understand the FBI has it now ?"
Mary: "Uh..yes that's right."....
*********************************************************************
Also the information from W.E." Bill" Newman...also seen on the same video.. he reports a shot to the right temple of J.F.K...they were immediately in front of the limo...they were facing......and from
BEHIND them....his back was to the mound in the garden..
TV interview KLIF...with Peter Watson...
W.E.Newman Jr...Billy.....verbatim as before..... but full interview..from tape..
Billy:"We were.... we had just come from Love field after seeing the President and the First Lady...ansd we were just in front of theTriple Underpass on Elm St.at the edge of the curb, getting ready to wave at the President ."
Peter Watson: "You were down under the viaduc so to speak ,weren't you?"
Billy: "We were half way between the triple underpass , we were at the curb when the incident happened. The President's car was some 50 feet still yet..uh.
Peter : hmm.
Billy: " in front of us, coming at us when we heard the first shot and the President , I don't know who was hit first, but the President jumped up in his seat ..( Billy's right fist comes up in an upward motion )....and then as the car got directly in front of us , ( Billy's right fist points in front of him...)...well a gunshot apparently from behind us...( Billy's right fist still in the air, moves up and towards and over his right shoulder thumb and forefinger pointing behind his right shoulder....)... hit the President in the side of the temple"....(.Billy: raises his right hand and places his forefinger directly on his right temple)...
Peter : "Do, do, you think the first gunshot came...uh.... from behind you too ?
Billy : " I think it came from the same location...uh..uh....apparently back up on the ,uh the uh uh mall, uh whatcha call it."
Peter: "Do you think the shot came from up on top of the viaduct towards the President , is that correct ?"
Billy: " Yes Sir, uh, no, not on the viaduct itself but on top of the hill on the little mound of ground in the garden.."
**********************************************
Abraham Zapruder ....
From Harold Weisberg's "White Wash 2: (1966) all his books are available from Hood College at most reasonable of prices.......
http://www.hood.edu/magazine/html/winter/2...fm?pid=_p12.htm
Mr.Zaprduer was shown only photographs of frames from his film by the Warren Commission, the film was not played..he had taken the film in colour, but the photos he was shown were in black and white..
Page 139:140:141...
""Liebeler questioned Zapruder about only two additional frames. First, 255 of which Zapruder said, "I know this ---I have seen it so many times ... In fact ,I used to have nightmares ...The thing would come every night ----I wake up and see this."...
(7H575)
Why this particular frame caused Zapruder's nightmarea and not the last one tp which Liebeler alluded, 313, the "horrible one" in Zapruder's words , showing thr fatal bullet exploding in the President's head, prompted no question from Liebeler .Perhaps he knew the answer ,which is obvious to those who have studied the record. Frame 255 is duplicated by the Altgens picture ,which was widely disseminated by the Associated Press and frightfully mis-used by the report..( Whitewash page 48, 202-3).
(snip)
Zapruder's last words of witness also went ignored, but they are important.This is the man wiht the telephoto lens :
"I know very few people who have seen it like that---it was an awful thing.." (7H576)
Perhaps there were fewer than very few ---none who saw what Zapruder did. Liebeler did not want to know,and he was not alone."
There are a few other Liebeler cute touches..
He allowed it to appear as though Zapruder had contacted the Secret Service first, before the SS could reach him, to offer his films..(see: SS Chief Forrest Sorrels (7H571)..
Much more significant is Liebeler's operation that reflects the undoubted brainwashing of Zapruder prior to his belated testimony. Zapruder had had many meetings wiht federal agents ,He ahs been exposed to the full treatment in the press, carefully leaked and fostered by the Commission and the Dallas Police, that all the shots had come from above., from the sixth floor window to his left..In part he forgot his contrary initial belief, During one of his volunteered statements (7H571) he said, "I remember the police were running behind me. There were police running right behind me. Of course they didn't realize it yet., I guess, where the shot came from ---that it came from that height." After some amplification of where the police were all running--- to the grassy knoll behind Zapruder from which many witnesses believe at least some firing came--Liebeler asked..
"Did you have any impression as to the direction from which these shots came?"
Zapruder's reply was equivocal: " No, I also thought it came from back of me...".
Under questioning the import of which soon became clear, he twice more repeated that he had thought the came from behind him .Then Liebeler posed this leading question,
"But you didn't form any opinion at that time as to what direction the shots did come from actually?".
To which Zapruder, as desired, replied briefly, "No".
As Liebeler must have known, this was quite contrary to the truth, for the very day of the assassination ,Zapruder reported and assassin has been behind him.
( See my previous post to see the copy.)
There is an almost illegible copy of a hand-lettered report hastily prepared by Secret Service Agent Max Phillips, dated 9.55 pm. Novemver 22/63.., the night of the assassination. It is captioned, " 8mm movie film showing President Kennedy being shot."
I obtained a copy of the very poor ---unnecessarily very poor-- copy in the Commission's files . ( This is how things were back then.) The original is not there..This is filed in Folder 1 of Commission File 87.. It begins by reporting that the enclosed film was taken by Zapruder and gives his office address and phone number..It identifies the enclosed film as a "third print" given to Sorrels and was made from Zapruder's "master".
And it states without quibble or equivocation, for the official story had not then been decided upon, "According to Mr.Zapruder ,the Assassin was behind Mr.Zapruder.".
It is not at all surprising that Zapruder so believed ,for according to the Commission File 962, which I examined June 30, 1966..the Secret Service also did.!..Part of this file consists of a 126-page inventory of the Station WFAA film and audio and video tape of and surroun- ding the assassination. On the 37th page appears this language: "" Secret Service quotes indicate autmomatic weapon used " to describe on item.The last listing on this page is similar " Bulletin ---Secret Service believes that an automatic weapon was fired from the top of the knoll", or behind Zaprduer.
To emphasize, these are not in the Commissions Report ,not in Liebeler's questioning , but very definitely in the Commission's files.!!""
****************************************************
Abraham Zapruder ..."I didn't even remember how I got down from that abutment there,but there I was, I guess,and I was walking toward---back toward my office screaming.." They killed him, they killed him"..
He wonders why the police were running up behind him and why from the front the motorcycle police were running right behind him, "of course, in the line of the shooting, I guess they thought it came from right behind me."????
I would also like to know the answer to his question now why would DPD, Sherrif Officers,etc and whomever be running behind him to said knoll area, after all they had been trained, yet they were running up in front of him and behind him.to the same area...
the people who had been watching the motorcade also began running to the same specific area..why ?? is it because all of them did not have any sense of direction,and the Police, had all failed in that particular element of their training.....????
He then adds the short statement .""Of course, they didn't realize yet, I guess, where the shot came from--that it came from that height.""
Well, I guess that says it all......not one that day within Dealey had any sense of direction.??..
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running right behind me, of course, in the line of the shooting. I guess they thought it came from right behind me.
Mr. ZAPRUDER - I thought I heard two, it could be three, because to my estimation I thought he was hit on the second--I really don't know. The whole thing that has been transpiring--it was very upsetting and as you see I got a little better all the time and this came up again and it to me looked like the second shot, but I don't know. I never even heard a third shot.
Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't hear any shot after you saw him hit?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - I heard the second--after the first shot--I saw him leaning over and after the second shot--it's possible after what I saw, you know, then I started yelling, "They killed him, they killed him," and I just felt that somebody had ganged up on him and I was still shooting the pictures until he got under the underpass--I don't even know how I did it. And then, I didn't even remember how I got down from that abutment there, but there I was, I guess, and I was walking toward--back toward my office and screaming, "They killed him, they killed him," and the people that I met on the way didn't even know what happened and they kept yelling, "What happened, what happened, what happened?" It seemed that they had heard a shot but they didn't know exactly what had happened as the car sped away, and I kept on just yelling, "They killed him, they killed him, they killed him," and finally got to my office and my secretary--I told her to call the police or the Secret Service--I don't know what she was doing, and that's about all. I was very much upset. Naturally, I couldn't imagine such a thing being done. I just went to my desk and stopped there until the police came and then we were required to get a place to develop the films. I knew I had something, I figured it might be of some help--I didn't know what.
As to what happened--I remember the police were running behind me. There were police running right behind me. Of course, they didn't realize yet, I guess, where the shot came from--that it came from that height.
Mr. LIEBELER - As you were standing on this abutment facing Elm street, you say the police ran over behind the concrete structure behind you and down the railroad track behind that, is that right?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - After the shots?
Mr. LIEBELER - Yes.
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running right behind me, of course, in the line of the shooting. I guess they thought it came from right behind me.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any impression as to the direction from which these shots came?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course, you can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but being I was here and he was hit on this line and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there.
Mr. LIEBELER - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - From the direction behind you?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment, where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I saw and I started and I said--yelling, "They've killed him"--I assumed that they came from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked like it came from the back of me.
Mr. LIEBELER - But you didn't form any opinion at that time as to what direction the shots did come from actually?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No.
Mr. LIEBELER - And you indicated that they could have come also from behind or from any other direction except perhaps from the left, because they could have been from behind or even from the front.
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, it could have been--in other words if you have a point--you could hit a point from any place, as far as that's concerned. I have no way of determining what direction the bullet was going.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you form any opinion about the direction from which the shots came by the sound, or were you just upset by the thing you had seen?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No, there was too much reverberation. There was an echo which gave me a sound all over. In other words that square is kind of--it had a sound all over.
Mr. LIEBELER - And with the buildings around there, too?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes, the reverberation was such that a sound--as it would vibrate--it didn't vibrate so much but as to whether it was a backfire--in other words, I didn't from the first sound, from him leaning over--I couldn't think it was a shot, but of course, the second--I think it was the second shot. I don't know whether they proved anything--they claim he was hit--that the first bullet went through him and hit Connally or something like that--I don't know how that is....
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/zapruder.htm
***********************************
In the tape, "Rush to Judgement" Mark Lane.there is also an interview of Orvilles Nix, who also took a film of the assassination that day, he relates that when he received his film back from the authorities , they had damaged and ruined some of the frames within, and others were missing...a frame here and there also...it was not the same as he had given to them.......Orville also states when asked, if he ever looked at the TSBD when the shots were being fired, and he answers NO...he thought they came from the fence area....
Orville Nix was also a very good friend of SS Chief Forrest Sorrels, of Dallas,and that day saw him and spoke with him, after the assassination, and in talking he mentioned that he thought the shots had come from the fence area, and Mr Sorrels, also stated that he did too...
There is overwhelming information that states there were shots from the fence area of the grassy knoll..there is also overwhelming information that leads to the findings that the Zapruder film was changed.....just the one frame #337....shows to your eyes that the wound that is seen, is not the wound that was reported and seen by so many at Parkland, that afternoon.....by Professionals...nor mentioned in anyway within their reports..The infomation from Sylvia Meagher shows how the reports in the media began changing within 24 hrs..and changing from also shots from the front, to only shots from the back..they were handled....
.Zapruder's own tribulations during Liebeler's questioning, and the fact that he was not called by the WC till July /64...when they had started to shut down, they also rushed through the the most important photographers in that time period, Algens, Willis, etc...they even argued, and changed Mr.Altgens information when he told them how far he was when he took his famous photo of the Limo..and came to their own conclusion....because it did not fit....he after all was there, they were not, but they changed the distance anyway..and the many, many witnesses they did not call, did not listen to.....it was not because they did not have the authority to question all and any, as they had the full power of the Government to demand what they needed and wanted, but they did not...they eventually complied, with all, the FBI and SS, NIA,and the CIA...and by not demanding and receiving all, and not doing a full investigation into their President's murder they complied again, and failed...and bowed to the pressure of having all done before the election that Fall for the Presidency...if it did not prove LHO guilty, they did not look any further..
Zapruder also stated he sold the film to Life for $50 thousand dollars, and that he was giving half to the Tippit family, which was generous, but the contract was worth$ 250,000.00 not $50..thousand..
Much changed during the first few weeks,starting within the first 24 hours....and on and on during the following years...in recollections, books ,articles, TV documentaries and such ..this is the main reason I try to contain my studies on what is referred to as First Day evidence..as well as the new that has become available, but to study both, it is amazing at the differences, and what some people believe now to be how things were and what people said and saw, but were and are not....we do not see within the 16 million dollar film, what really happened in regard to the kill head shots that struck President Kennedy within the Zapruder film... that Nov.22/63 in Dealey Plaza ..
the Parkland Medical information and the Zapruder film are forever connected...
To see into the Zapruder imo you must also study Parkland...imo.
Thanks.....B
-
Bernice, while I don't claim to be an expert on the history of the Zapruder film, I do know that the window of opportunity for any kind of alteration was very brief. There is the original film, which was purchased by Life, which had a few frames removed, most likely by accident. And then there is the Secret Service version, which is a copy made from the original before the frames were lost. The film is identical, except for the extra frames. Since the frames of the shot sequence of the Zapruder film were included in the Warren Report's 26 volumes, this means they had less than a year to fake the film. And then there's the fact that the frames printed in Life Magazine within a week of the assassination are all in the current film and all appear consistent with the current film. So, if it was faked, when was it faked, how was it faked, who faked it, and why was if faked? I don't know if this can be answered satisfactorily.
As to your other questions, I'll try to better explain myself. The vast majority of so-called "medical evidence" you will find on the assassination is not medical evidence at all, but eyewitness evidence. Arguing about who saw what and when and going back and interviewing people forty years after the fact is interesting, but not all that productive, IMO. I decided to read articles on forensic pathology, and to find out what x-rays of gun shot wounds actually looked like, etc. And I found a lot of things that should have been found years ago, but were not, due in large part IMO, to so many people spending their energy looking into alteration. One example of this is Gary Aguilar's focus on eyewitness testimony but complete disregard for the absolute deception employed by Baden et al regarding the so-called "mystery photo". Another example of this is David Mantik's concession to the lone-nut crowd that the physical evidence if it has not been altered is a slam-dunk case against Oswald. (I hope that he doesn't really believe this.) And then there's Harrison Livingstone's contention of the missing face in the x-rays, which he would have known is complete bunk if he'd spent one day looking through radiology texts. Ultimately, I believe all these men were seduced by the concept of "alteration", and their desire to catch the government pulling a fast one...
When you read my presentation, I think you'll see what I mean. Thanks for being open-minded enough to take a look.
Pat
*******************
Hi Pat:
Thanks for the reply...in answer, I have found some information re the Zapruder film and also
the medical end that perhaps you may be interested in...
IMO whomever ,they had all the time needed, before the frames were shown in the WR, and in Life to have altered the head shot area of the film by editing, I take it you thought I meant they changed the whole thing, I simply do not know enough about filming.....but apparently, they did cut the filming of the limo, turning the corner, and some ,Life said frames were accidentally destroyed, so we know, it is not the full film.....but aside from the others areas, and there are some ,that have found within their studies of the background and other areas of the film have been changed, and that is their findings and their perogative, as your study is .... I only know what I have studied, and in some areas, it certainly has seemed that it could have been... I have studied the Zapruder for years many, to the point at times where I stop and put it away for a time....but that is not what I refer to, it is the head shot area.....those few frames...the wounds we see, are not what was reported at Parkland, I notice that you mention the talking to witnesses 40 years later, I do read what many of them say now, but it is first day evidence and first reports that I follow and research.....the initial reactions,statements and information.....and what is shown on the Zapruder film head shot area, is not what was reported that first day, at Parkland, and not what the witnesses informed us of ,who were closest and what information they related as to where the shots came from..
You mention that the Zapruder film that you have studied is flowing and even, it was not always this way......perhaps you are studying the MPI, and or the Groden's latest........but the old copies of the Zapruder that we see on the old video tapes, and some on the web are anything but as you have described.. This is what MPI did, that is their business, they created the best possible, though they left some frames out, an even flowing copy of the Zapruder film....but that is not as it used to be.......if that is what you have only used, may I suggest respectfully, that you obtain older jerky, non flowing copies of the Zapruder film, and study the head shot area specifically..
In July 98 when the MPI was released and copies of such were received there were what we could call, image alterations employed in the form of "digital enhancements"....a man by the name of Todd Murphy of THERE TV explained...how he had "stabilized" the video by removing jiggles within the film, and had made other clarifications and enhancements, which could and probably included sharpening the focus of segments of the frames that were inconsistent within frames and improved the colour properties within the frames,when perhaps not in harmony...so what we see in the MPI is not what we see in the old copies of the Zapruder film..
I do not basically agree, that there were only two shooters from the back, and that is what you are saying..unless I am reading incorrectly..? there were shots from the grassy knoll, from first day reports on film by Peter Watson of KLIF, lets take just two.on Nov 22/63//that same afternoon....Mary Moorman, who shortly after the assassination,was interviewed on Television and stated that "she took her film"..and that "shots were still firing"..and that she laid down as she was in "the line of fire" and we know where Mary was situated....W.E. "Bill "Newman Jr. and family who also were inteviewed by Peter on film, stated..the shots came" from behind them, up on the mall, the top of the hill garden, back up there"..and they threw themselves on the ground to protect their two sons......they are on tape, and they can be ignored, but it does not change the fact that there were people within 15 feet from the limo, that stated shots came from the fence area, and also stated they got down because they were in the line of fire, that cannot be erased, left out nor forgotten so that whatever findings a researcher does within his or her particular area, complies with what he has found to his or her satisfaction..to perhaps fit his or her theory....
The first day filming and statements and interviews cannot just be put aside...there is a wonderful Video tape, called "Rush to Judgement" by Mark Lane, that presents the interviews of many of the witnesses, this was made in February 1964....when their memories were very sharp..and had not begun to fade....and also when Press Sec. Malcolm Kilduff, at Parkland came to the microphone, and made the announcement that JFK was dead, and pointed to his forehead in the exact area we see an entrance wound, "he died from a gun shot to the head."....he stated and points to that exact spot....so when reviewing this information and the Doctors and nurses information from Parkland, there had to be a blow out to the back of the head, and no large wound blown open on the top of the head, that was not reported by anyone first day at Parkland, and that, is not what we see in the Zapruder film, and I would like to know why not ??
Even Abraham Zapruder himself stated.
At 9:55 p.m. Dallas time on November 22..United States PRS Special Agent Maxwell D. Phillips sent a hand-written memo (Warren Commission Document, CD87) to U.S. Secret Service Chief James Rowley that accompanied one of the first generation copies said of Zapruder's origins of at least one shot, "According to Mr Zapruder the position of the assassin was behind Mr Zapruder." Behind Mr. Zapruder was the Dealey Plaza grassy knoll However, (by the time) in his testimony to the Warren Commission Zapruder was less certain..
Personally I research into first day evidence, not 40 years later, as all our memories dim over time...I also have always seen more than two shots from the back, therefore at least three shooters, as unless there were,there would have been no Tague shot...nor a sewer hit on the South side.....nor a North sidewalk hit...nor anyone in the line of fire..There were many shots IMO..All this was not possible by one man alone..as it is impossible for any one man or two from the back only, to shoot both from the front and the back.....LHO could not have ever accomplished this alone, if he did fire any that day, and from the evidence that is available now and the findings, there is no positive proof he did so, perhaps if the WC had allowed him Council, as was allowed at the Neuremburg Trials for dead Nazi war criminals, we would today have much more information than they issued, but seeing that they searched no further for any evidence other than what would find him guilty as the lone assassin, it is all a could have been...
I believe Pat that you are perhaps taking what Dr.D.Mantik stated out of context....
Pat: ""Another
example of this is David Mantik's concession to the lone-nut crowd that
the physical evidence if it has not been altered is a slam-dunk case
against Oswald. (I hope that he doesn't really believe this.)""
What he says in, "Murder in Dealey Plaza"..page..220
""If the evidence in the JFK case is merely accepted at Face Value, then the conclusions are rather trivial. The rookie Scotland Yard imspector can easily solve this case......It was Oswald alone. The real challenge is to assess the credibility of the evidence. Vincent Bugliosi ,the former Los Angeles County prosecutor of Charles Manson ( and winner of virtually all of his other cases) still maintains that Oswald did it. He is even writing a book that will attempt to prove this. I have advised him that if he ignores this fundamental issue of evidence reliability then real communication between partisans across this chasm is unlikely to be advanced.""
This was written in 2000, as we know, many have and are still awaiting Bugliosi's work, which still has not been released, I do wonder what difficulites he has found within his studies, and has found it is not all so simple ,that LHO alone was guilty.
There were not just a few frames removed, within the Zapruder film..there was the beginning of the limo entrance onto Elm, and there were several that Life damaged...that is far from a few..the WR was not released till I believe Sept 64, there was plenty of time to alter the area of the head shots, that is what I am referring to..you refer to the Life magazine being printed within a week....that was plenty of time to alter the head shot area,by editing...Why was it faked as you call it.?.I believe perhaps in the beginning when this was done it was to remove images of what did occur that showed there was more then one shooter and more than three shots, and shots from the front ,therefore they had multiple gunmen involved and it proved conspiracy..Once the frames were printed in the Life magazine, they were stuck, in otherwards..and further when they were released within the WCR.......they had altered it, by at least editing the head shots frames area,and had to stick by it...and so during the years that have followed, they have had it worked on so that today we have as with MPI, a free flowing ,great looking steady film..but that is not what we have seen in the past..
There is the one frame, within the Zapruder film # 337 within the head shot area,I will post below...where we can see Jackie's left shoulder through his head, but as we know that area was not blown away...it is very crude in that particular area, there are too many things wrong within the film and the head shots, Connally moves too quickly, Greer's head turns move too quickly, we do not see Connally starting to turn to his left, then he goes down too quickly, this all has been proven by researchers and qualified that it is humanly impossible for people to move at this speed...and it shows that the head shot area was altered by editing out of frames, on the film...... after the last shot, as Jackie is getting up and onto the back of the trunk, her movements are also impossible for a human being, as they are done much too quickly..this all occurs within a couple of seconds..
They certainly had the ability to edit films back then, that is no secret, how was it faked, they took frames out and that created the jerky, too quick movements of all...there has been much research within that area..Somone mentioned or asked, that the name of a study that has been done by someone or ones, who have the experience within the film industry, I found the following information...if interested...
* Dr. Roderick Ryan believes he has discovered that the limousine is actually standing still in Z303 but is moving in Z302, even though the limousine appears to be moving at a nearly uniform speed in the film during this time (Noel Twyman, BLOODY TREASON, Rancho Santa Fe, CA: Laurel Publishing, 1997, pp. 158-159, 164-165). Notes Noel Twyman,
Experience tells us that the limousine could not have decelerated from 11 miles per hour to a complete stop in 1/18 second. (BLOODY TREASON, p. 165)
Dr. Ryan made this discovery by analyzing the blurring of background images in the two frames. Moreover, Dr. Ryan's son, who also works in motion picture film technology, studied the film and confirmed his father's discovery (BLOODY TREASON, p. 159).
In case some might be wondering about Dr. Ryan's background, he is a retired scientist from Kodak. He holds a Ph.D. from USC, majoring in cinema and communications. He worked for Kodak for 29 years. He spent his entire career in motion picture film technology. He is a recipient of the Scientific and Engineering Award from the Society of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. He has authored numerous books on motion picture technology and several articles on motion picture science. In addition, he is a Fellow of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences and a member of the Committee for Selection of Scientific and Technical Awards, Special Effects, Documentary Films.
http://karws.gso.uri.edu/Marsh/Jfk-conspiracy/zfilmalt.htm
Another thought on why was it faked, or why they thought perhaps they could get away with doing such ,could possibley be that they never thought that the research movement would grow, as it did, that perhaps they were the only ones who would be in possession of all information forever ...Perhaps like Dulles they thought no one would read the WC, other than some academics and that the public didn't read, and that they certainly would never study the Zapruder film, why would they?? they were not very intelligent according to him.. I do not think they realized that John Kennedys' assassination would have the effect it did on the people, nor that they would have the wherewithal, nor intelligence to really see that many areas were wrong and did not add up...perhaps they thought he was regarded as just another President, and that it would all die down and if and when the public ever saw the frames, like we did in Life, we would be shocked, and say isn't that terrible and buy it, and I guess at that time we did.......well after all it was Life Magazine, that was to be trusted, then, that they ,the people would put it eventually all away, in the back of their minds, and get on with their lives..All would eventually die down, and he would belong to history and the ages and put in his rightful place in such, and eventually just be a memory..They did not realize the gift he had with the people, that of communication, the touch of class, and how he made them feel, about themselves.....they thought he was just another President and he was replaced by an LBJ..which made it all the more apparent, imo...
Perhaps some people have missed important areas like the testimony of the Doctors and Nurses in Dallas which I think could be perhaps the most important as it does relate to the information seen within the head shot area of the Zapruder film.. --and most neglected aspect by many--of the whole medical case .I don't call the Docs or nurses at Parkland, just eyewitnesses, they were a well trained medical emergency team.
PARKLAND Memorial Hospital, Dallas, treated an average of 272 emergency cases a day, and saw many gunshot wounds..( The Doctors referred to the trauma team as "the knife and gun club." ).It was
adjacent to and was the major teaching hospital for the University of Texas Southwestern Medical
School. It was staffed by the faculty of the medical school and had 150 interns and residents in
all medical specialties... one of the few within the US at the time, that had this type of groups arranged for this type of emergency, they saw on a daily basis, gun shot wounds, knifings etc.. the statements they made were not of a ordinary citizen witness, who were 15 feet away from the auto....when they spoke they gave their medical information, therefore it is a part of that area of evidence...They gave their findings on the immediate condition of his body when received in the Trauma room 1..if not there would have not been a phone call from a Bethesda Doc to one at Parkland...we cannot ignore what they said and or the reports they made, it is medical..and Bethesda certainly did not.....it has become well known through the years that Southwestern and the Government have not been what you could call subtle about their need for the Doctors, who were in attendance, to keep quiet and to not divulge what they saw,and heard that weekend in November...1963
A list of some of the Doctors who treated JFK follows...From Dr.Crenshaw's :"JFK Conspiracy of Silence" and or his updated "Trauma Room One."
Dr.G Shires, who became chief of surgery of Cornell Univ. Med school...and then chief of surgery at Texas Tech Medical ,
Dr. Malcolm Perry, who became professor of surgery and chief of vascular services at Vanderbilt Univ.Med.School, Nashville..and then professor and chief of vascular surgery at Texas Tech Univ.Med school..
Dr.Charles R.Baxter and Dr.Robert N McClelland professors of surgery at Southwestern Med school.
Dr.Charles J.Carrico chairman of the dept of surgery at Parkland and Southwestern Med school.
Dr.Ronald Jones chief of general surgery at Baylor Med Center.
Dr.Charles Crenshaw clinical professor of surgery at Southwestern Med. school...and director and chairman of Dept of surgery at John Peter Smith Hospital in Fort Worth.
Some of this staff did research in a fellowship under Dr.Shires...in which they eventually made medical history by discovering that death from hemorrhagic shock ( blood loss )can be due primarily to the body's adjunctive depletin of internal salt water into the cells....almost 30 years later ,Drs. Joseph L.Goldsetin and Michael S.Brown at Southwestern Med School ,gained and made medical history by winning the Nobel Prize for their research into cholesterol metabolism...I am posting this information, to show that this medical staff was not some run of the mill, everyday, Doctor as some may believe..nor was the Hospital by any means...the medical information and statements made by them on the wounds of the President must be taken seriously, by any given study within the medical area..
The following is information from
"Three Patients at Parkland"
"Texas State Journal of Medicine, dated January 1964.and written in late November / early December,1963...before the official story was set in stone.This was on JFKs wounds......and was posted by Michael Parks....a long time ago, there is no link...
Charles J Carrico - Dr. Carrico was the first physician to see the President. A 1961 graduate
of Southwestern Medical School, he is 28 and a resident in surgery at Parkland.
He reported that when the patient entered the emergency room on an ambulance carriage he had
slow agonal respiratory efforts and occasional cardiac beats detectable by auscultation. Two
external wounds were noted; one a small wound of the anterior neck in the lower one third. The
other wound had caused avulsion of the occipitoparietal calvarium and shredded brain tissue was
present with profuse oozing. No pulse or blood pressure were present. Pupils were bilaterally
dilated and fixed. A cuffed endotracheal tube was inserted through the laryngoscope. A ragged
wound of the trachea was seen immediately below the larynx. The tube was advanced past the
laceration and the cuff inflated. Respiration was instituted using a respirator assistor on
automatic cycling. Concurrently, an intravenous infusion of lactated Ringer's solution was
begun via catheter placed in the right leg. Blood was drawn for typing and crossmatching. Type
0 Rh negative blood was obtained immediately.
In view of the tracheal injury and diminished breath sounds in the right chest, tracheostomy
was performed by Dr. Malcolm 0. Perry and bilateral chest tubes inserted. A second intravenous
infusion was begun in the left arm. In addition, Dr. M. T. Jenkins began respiration with the
anesthesia machine, cardiac monitor and stimulator attached. Solu-Cortef (300 mg.) was given
intravenously. Despite those measures, blood pressure never returned. Only brief
electrocardiographic evidence of cardiac activity was obtained.
Malcolm 0. Perry - Dr. Perry is an assistant professor of surgery at Southwestern Medical
School from which he received his degree in 1955. He is 34 years old and was certified by the
American Board of Surgery in 1963.
At the time of initial examination of the President, Dr. Perry has stated, the patient was
noted to be nonresponsive . His eyes were deviated and the pupils dilated. A considerable
quantity of blood was noted on the patient, the carriage, and the floor. A small wound was
noted in the midline of the neck in the lower third anteriorly. It was exuding blood slowly. A
large wound of the right posterior cranium was noted, exposing severely lacerated brain. Brain
tissue was noted in the blood at the head of the carriage.
Pulse or heart beat were not detectable but slow spasmodic respiration was noted. An
endotracheal tube was in place and respiration was being controlled. An intravenous infusion
was being placed in the leg. While additional venesections were done to administer fluids and
blood, a tracheostomy was effected. A right lateral injury to the trachea was noted. The
cuffed tracheostomy tube was put in place as the endotracheal tube was withdrawn and
respirations continued. Closed chest cardiac massage was instituted after placement of
sealed-drainage chest tubes, but without benefit. When electrocardiogram evaluation revealed
that no detectable electrical activity existed in the heart, resuscitative attempts were
abandoned. The team of physicians determined that the patient had expired.
Charles R. Baxter - Dr. Baxter is an assistant professor of surgery at Southwestern Medical
School where he first arrived as a medical student in 1950. Except for two years away in the
Army he has been at Southwestern and Parkland ever since, moving up from student to intern to
resident to faculty member. He is 34 and was certified by the American Board of Surgery in 1963.
Recalling his attendance to President Kennedy, he says he learned at approximately 12 :35
that the President was on the way to the emergency room and that he had been shot. When Dr.
Baxter arrived in the emergency room, he found an endotracheal tube in place and respirations
being assisted. A left chest tube was being inserted and cut-downs were functioning in one leg
and in the left arm. The President had a wound in the midline of the neck. On first
observation of the other wounds, portions of the right temporal and occipital bones were missing
and some of the brain was lying on the table. The rest of the brain was extensively macerated
and contused. The pupils were fixed and deviated laterally and were dilated. No pulse was
detectable and ineffectual respirations were being assisted. A tracheostomy was performed by
Dr. Perry and Dr. Baxter and a chest tube was inserted into the right chest (second interspace
anteriorly). Meanwhile one pint of O negative blood was administered without response. When
all of these measures were complete, no heart beat could be detected. Closed chest massage was
performed until a cardioscope could be attached. Brief cardiac activity was obtained followed
by no activity. Due to the extensive and irreparable brain damage which existed and since there
were no signs of life, no further attempts were made at resuscitation.
Robert N. McClelland - Dr. McClelland, 34, assistant professor of surgery at Southwestern
Medical School, is a graduate of the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston. He has
served with the Air Force in Germany and was certified by the American Board of Surgery in 1963.
Regarding the assassination of President Kennedy, Dr. McClelland says that at approximately
12:35 p.m. he was called from the second floor of the hospital to the emergency room. When he
arrived, President Kennedy was being attended by Drs. Perry, Baxter, Carrico, and Ronald Jones,
chief resident in surgery. The President was at that time comatose from a massive gunshot wound
of the head with a fragment wound of the trachea. An endotracheal tube had been placed and
assisted respiration started by Dr. Carrico who was on duty in the emergency room when the
President arrived. Drs. Perry, Baxter, and McClelland performed a tracheostomy for respiratory
distress and tracheal injury. Dr. Jones and Dr. Paul Peters, assistant professor of surgery, ;
inserted bilateral anterior chest tubes for pneumothoraces secondary to the tracheo-mediastinal
injury. Dr. Jones and assistants had started three cutdowns, giving blood and fluids
immediately. In spite of this, the President was pronounced dead at 1:00 p.m. by Dr. Clark, the
neurosurgeon, who arrived immediately after Dr. McClelland. The cause of death, according to
Dr. McClelland was the massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the right side of
the head. The President was pronounced dead after external cardiac massage failed and
electrocardiographic activity was gone.
Fouad A, Bashour - Dr. Bashour received his medical education at the University of Beirut
School of Medicine in Lebanon. He is 39 and an associate professor of medicine in cardiology at
Southwestern Medical School.
At 12 :50 p.m. Dr. Bashour was called from the first floor of the hospital and told that
President Kennedy had been shot. He and Dr. Donald Seldin, professor and chairman of the
Department of Internal Medicine, went to the emergency room. Upon examination, they found that
the President had no pulsations, no heart beats, no blood pressure. The oscilloscope showed a
complete standstill. The President was declared dead at 1:00 p.m.
William Kemp Clark - Dr. Clark is associate professor and chairman of the Division of
Neurosurgery at Southwestern Medical School. The 38-year-old physician has done research on
head injuries and has been at Southwestern since 1956.
He reports this account of the President's treatment:
The President arrived at the emergency room entrance in the back seat of his limousine.
Governor Connally of Texas was also in this car. The first physician to see the President was
Dr. Carrico.
Dr. Carrico noted the President to have slow, agonal respiratory efforts. He could hear a
heart beat but found no pulse or blood pressure. Two external wounds, one in the lower third of
the anterior neck, the other in the occipital region of the skull, were noted. Through the head
wound, blood and brain were extruding. Dr. Carrico inserted a cuffed endotracheal tube and
while doing so, he noted a ragged wound of the trachea immediately below the larynx.
At this time, Drs. Perry, Baxter, and Jones arrived. Immediately thereafter, Dr. Jenkins and
Drs. A. H. Giesecke, Jr., and Jackie H. Hunt, two other staff anesthesiologists, arrived. The
endotracheal tube had been connected to a respirator to assist the President's breathing. An
anesthesia machine was substituted for this by Dr. Jenkins. Only 100 per cent oxygen was
administered.
A cutdown was performed in the right ankle, and a polyethylene catheter inserted in the vein.
An infusion of lactated Ringer's solution was begun. Blood was drawn for typing and
crossmatching, but unmatched type O Rh negative blood was immediately obtained and begun.
Hydrocortisone (300
mg.) was added to the intravenous fluids.
Dr. McClelland arrived to help in the President's care. Drs. Perry, Baxter, and McClelland
did a tracheostomy. Considerable quantities of blood were present in the President's oral
pharynx. At this time, Dr. Peters and Dr. Clark arrived.
Dr. Clark noted that the President had bled profusely from the back of the head. There was a
large (3 by 3 cm.) amount of cerebral tissue present on the cart. There was a smaller amount of
cerebellar tissue present also.
The tracheostomy was completed and the endotracheal tube was withdrawn. Suction was used to
remove blood in the oral pharynx. A nasogastric tube was passed into the stomach. Because of
the likelihood of mediastinal injury, anterior chest tubes were placed in both pleural spaces.
These were connected to sealed underwater drainage.
Neurological examination revealed the President's pupils to be widely dilated and fixed to
light. His eyes were divergent, being deviated outward; a skew deviation from the horizontal
was present. No deep tendon reflexes or spontaneous movements were found.
When Dr. Clark noted that there was no carotid pulse, he began closed chest massage. A pulse
was obtained at the carotid and femoral levels.
Dr. Perry then took over the cardiac massage so that Dr. Clark could evaluate the head wound.
There was a large wound beginning in the right occiput extending into the parietal region.
Much of the right posterior skull, at brief examination, appeared gone. The previously
described extruding brain was present. Profuse bleeding had occurred and 1500 cc. of blood was
estimated to be on the drapes and floor of the emergency operating room. Both cerebral and
cerebellar tissue were extruding from the wound.
By this time an electrocardiograph was hooked up. There was brief electrical activity of the
heart which soon stopped.
The President was pronounced dead at 1:00 p.m. by Dr. Clark.
M. T. Jenkins - Dr. Jenkins is professor and chairman of the Department of Anesthesiology at
Southwestern Medical School. He is 46, a graduate of the University of Texas Medical Branch in
Galveston, and was certified by the American Board of Anesthesiology in 1952. During World War
II he served in the Navy as a lieutenant commander.
When Dr. Jenkins was notified that the President was being brought to the emergency room at
Parkland, he dispatched Drs. Giesecke and Hunt with an anesthesia machine and resuscitative
equipment to the major surgical emergency room area. He ran downstairs to find upon his arrival
in the emergency operating room that Dr. Carrico had begun resuscitative efforts by introducing
an orotracheal tube, connecting it for controlled ventilation to a Bennett intermittent positive
pressure breathing apparatus. Drs. Baxter, Perry, and McClelland arrived at the same time and
began a tracheostomy and started the insertion of a right chest tube, since there was also
obvious tracheal and chest damage. Drs. Peters and Clark arrived simultaneously and immediately
thereafter assisted respectively with the insertion of the right chest tube and with manual
closed chest cardiac compression to assure circulation. Dr. Jenkins believes it evidence of the
clear thinking of the resuscitative team that the patient received 300 mg. hydrocortisone
intravenously in the first few minutes.
For better control of artificial ventilation, Dr. Jenkins exchanged the intermittent positive
pressure breathing apparatus for an anesthesia machine and continued artificial ventilation.
Dr. Gene Akin, a resident in anesthesiology, and Dr. Giesecke connected a cardioscope to
determine cardiac activity.
During the progress of these activities, the emergency room cart was elevated at the feet in
order to provide a Trendelenburg position, a venous cutdown was performed on the right saphenous
vein and additional fluids were begun in a vein in the left forearm while blood was ordered from
the blood bank. All of these activities were completed by approximately 12:50 at which time
external cardiac massage was still being carried out effectively by Dr. Clark as judged by a
palpable peripheral pulse. Despite these measures there was only brief electrocardiographic
evidence of cardiac activity.
These described resuscitative activities were indicated as of first importance, and after
they were carried out, attention was turned to other evidences of injury. There was a great
laceration on the right side of the head (temporal and occipital), causing a great defect in the
skull plate so that there was herniation and laceration of great areas of the brain, even to the
extent that part of the right cerebellum had protruded from the wound. There were also
fragmented sections of brain on the drapes of the emergency room cart. With the institution of
adequate cardiac compression, there was a great flow of blood from the cranial cavity,
indicating that there was much vascular damage as well as brain tissue damage. President
Kennedy was pronounced dead at 1 p.m.
It is Dr. Jenkins' personal feeling that all methods of resuscitation were instituted
expeditiously and efficiently. However, he says, the cranial and intracranial damage was of
such magnitude as to cause irreversible damage.
Their information cannot be left out nor taken lightly in any study, if all is not considered then IMO any study will end up wanting..
I have not, spent years looking for alterations, but I have spent years looking at the evidence, in many areas, what is available, that is...and the longer I have the more of such has not added up... as we gain the knowledge within all, more and more we discover that what they say and what the evidence leads to does not comply..and what they, the others have done is very important, because many have done their research on many specific areas, and without their studies, we would not have known, or have even a smidgen of what information we have today....so whatever their studies have revealed...whether we agree with them or not, that is their perogative and it should be studied and considered as yours should be...
The medical is far from the only important area, as when you put it all together you get the overall picture, that spells out clearly, Conspiracy, and certainly more than one shooter, and Gov involvement, but the Gov will not look at it, nor did they continue as they should have when it was recommended after the HSCA....there were many studies and they all fell flat, as the Gov is not now about to open a new one, if they can get out of it, and they do by ignoring, and having the media bring out the old, once a year, LHO, and admit now to a possible conspiracy...of a second shooter, but of the Government complicity at the time,
there is never a word.......they were compliant, as they were in charge of all..
The medical is but one area..and there are many..IMO there were no shots that blew out his face, there was a through and through head shot from the front, that blew out to the back of his head...that I can see from all the studying I have done, and a second head shot from the back.....the whomevers, that you think went into this with the set of mind on finding alterations ,I believe that they have based their findings on what they have found within those studies, if that led them to their belief of alterations, then so be it, there have been alterations within the witness testimony, many, so why not in many other areas, and there has been..Also, when a cover-up is put into place, they whomever certainly do not just center on one area...we cannot throw out all the rest of the information, that leads to a cover up and leads to Gov. complicity, and just rely on any one particular study..
Which has been done before by more than qualified Drs. such as Dr.Mantik who is a M.D..Ph.D..in physics a board certified Radiation Oncologist , and has done a pioneering type of work in densitometry in studying the autopsy X-Rays that lead him to the conclusion that they have been altered .He is right now the leading medical expert on the evidence, the best we have in otherwards..and am I pleased he has taken such an interest....We daren't throw out all their work, imo...but should continue, within our own studies as you have done, whether they will stand up to scrutiny or not, it will be made clear eventually, and as we know within a few more years a man or woman by a different name will come along and present their study that will prove yours wrong in their opinion.. that is how is goes..
Imo, we have to keep all in mind and not have a pat theory or a scenario, written in stone, as we have seen in the past, all of a sudden there is a new finding that changes a certain perspective especially today with all the advances that are being made within the scientific and technical world...we would be very backward if we did..
I intend to research within your new study, along with my friends knowlegeable input, I will try to understand to the best of my ability as we did with the others including Dr. Mantik's work... it is a constant learning process, and if you let down your studying for any length of time, you are simply lost...imo..
Thanks for the reply, and your information and thoughts..
Below is frame #337 of the Zapruder that shows Jacqueline's shoulder through his head.. which makes no
sense to me whatever , as he had no such wound..
B..
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David Healy wrote "no burden of proof falls here, Ray -- This isn't a courtroom"
David, this forum will do until a courtroom comes along. We try to be reasonable people, and therefore susceptible to sound argument. Most JFK researchers have neever seriosly doubted that the Z-film is authentic, therefore we see no need to question it. If you could create that doubt, however, some of us might be motivated to investigate further, and maybe find evidence of alteration overlooked up to now. But first you must persuade us that there is real, living doubt.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dictionary.com defines the word 'forum' as follows:
-The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
-A public meeting place for open discussion.
-A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.
-A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
-A court of law; a tribunal.
If this forum "will do until a courtroom comes along" it would seem that ideally it should function as a medium for open discussion and voicing ideas. Ideation is, therefore, to be encouraged and speculation, hypothesizing, and 'grand intuitive leaps of the intellect ' are no less worthy of consideration than are the so-called hard facts of the case. If we behave as lawyers conducting cross-examinations of witnesses, we are doing little more than attempting to discredit the statements of others in order to prevent their input from upsetting the way that we perceive things should be... upsetting our applecarts would be an appropriate description.
We are nowhere near a courtroom stage, and if all we wish to do is to close our minds to other possibilities, concepts, ideas, etc. we succeed in doing nothing much more than discouraging others from posting/contributing/whatever. If we have to tag a name to where we are in our thinking about the JFK assassination, I would suggest that instead of lawyers, we might more profitably think of ourselves as being homicide detectives who are extremeley short on leads, and the case is getting colder by the minute. And lest we forget... speculation, theorizing, role playing, simulation, and betimes even the assistance of psychics, have all been used in attempting to put the pieces together in a variety of murder investigations.
What I fear is that if the 'prove it to me' attitude persists, the overall high quality of this forum will rapidly deteriorate. It has happened before on other JFK assassination discussion boards, and it would be a real pity if the same thing were to happen here. Nor is this the first time that I have responded to this type of thing. On one occasion on another forum , I wrote as follows:
All of my posts have been framed within the context of what is termed a limited response question. In other words, a simple yes/no answer was all that was needed, meaning 'Yes, I can see it/No I cannot see it'. Each and every single one of the pictures was cropped from other pictures presently posted here on the forum. I looked and I saw what was being missed, and when I enlarged and presented what I was seeing, the responses which were were posted went far beyond the boundaries of objective evaluation and common courtesy.
The basic element in the development of a lynch-mob mentality is one of fear, and it always has to begin with some loud-mouth, who thinks he knows it all, screaming out ,"Let's hang the bastard! He's not one of us. He thinks black is white. He's has no right to be here. Let's get rid of him."
Simply put, all of this reduces to the question of whether or not I am accurately reporting what I have observed. I have deceived no one by posting pictures. How would that be possible? All that one had to do was to look and either see/not see. Why anyone would think they are entitled to make demands to suit their own purpsoes, is beyond comprehension. If they cannot see what I have enlarged for them, why do they think they could do any better by producing their own enlargements of those very same images. But what does come across loudly and clearly, are undeniable projections of intolerance, arrogance, self-deception, and plain down-right ignorance. If that's what the quest for truth and justice is supposed to generate, then it's a very sad state of affair indeed.
Empty vessels do indeed make the most sound. On the forums the local resident loud-mouth consistently 'trashes' anything that he sees as threatening to his own opinions. He goes for the jugular immediately. He's first in and last out. He sets the tone and dedicates the remainder of his time to shaping the content of thread topics entirely to his own preferences. He believes only in himself. He cannot possibly allow anyone even to suggest that he might do well to take a second look at things. And I assure everyone reading this that everything I have posted on this specific forum - and shall be posting in the future- is demanding of people taking both their time and that most necessary second look at things, prior to jumping in with both feet in support of any loud-mouth detractor whose only interest is self-aggrandizment and impressing like-minded fellow travellers. The latter forget that what they write to impress each other, is also being read by a far larger second group of subscribers comprised in a silent majority.
Need I observe, that suppressing any and all positive input in support of a particular post that does not sit well with a loud-mouth's perpspectives, becomes a major goal... and God help anyone who attempts to voice support, and they know it and so they remain silent. Therein, and historically down through the ages, tyranny has prospered while people have sat on their hands and done nothing. Victory and justice are not necessarily aimiable bed-fellows. Nietzche told us that victory belongs to the powerful, not to the just and righteous, and it was Voltaire who reminded us in 'Candide' , that if things are really bad, there is no reason at all to conclude that hoped for improvements will come to pass. To put it bluntly, 'ad hominem' attacks on the individual, speculating on his/her motivation(s), and downright insulting attacks on a person's character and integrity, not alone are despicable in and of themselves, but , if tolerated to the point that they become commonplace in their acceptance, point directly to the ultimate demise of the institutions, organizations, and societies which permit their expression.. .and please, no attempt should be made to justify any of it by an appeal to the rights of individuals granted via constitutional processes and/or amendments thereto. Objective commentary and/or criticism is never to be feared , but when it reduces to the level of character assassination, insinuation, and totally self-serving attacks on a very long list of dedicated CT fellow researchers, it's not too difficult to understand that if one dares to say a single word concerning anything that is going to be regarded as being contrary to the resident Divinity's omniscient perception of the reality of His universe, apocalyptic fire and brimstome will immediately descend from above.
****************************
Hi Ed:
Hope all are well.....Been awhile, and nice to see you..
Kudos on your post, you are right....imo....and we know they , whomever
are always around,they are nothing new,
they come and they go.... and need to be ignored....when treated so
is what they fear the most.
They do not come to learn nor to add to the discussions, nor look into
research that others have perhaps presented....
...They come to sound off on how others are wrong..period..
.they have been around a long time,
but then so have we...carry on..
.Best.
B
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Pat:""While I've always tried to stay open-minded on this subject, the more time I spend around actual photographers and film-makers, the more I'm convinced the technology, albeit in an infant stage, existed in 1964 to so cleverly fake a film, but that the technical skills did not. As Len suggests, there were no pre-1964 films with inserts and mattes as seamless as the Z-film. As a Valley kid growing up in the sixties, I would make a yearly trek down to Universal Studios, our local amusement park. While most kids were fascinated by The Munsters set or the Western stunt show, my favorite part as I remember was a demonstration on how Hitchcock filmed The Birds. This was state-of-the-art stuff; nevertheless, to today's critical eye, much of the action looks fake. ""....
Hi Pat:
Some thoughts on your post above, you or anyone, if I am incorrect please feel free to correct me..
The Zapruder film we see today, and for the past several years is not the Zapruder......that was Not seen till Mr. Garrison was able to get a copy, which was provided to him by Life, I believe in 1968, and it was a very bad and blurry film copy, I have read many times..therefore it was almost useless in trying to analyse..When Groden's copy of said film was shown by Geraldo on television, it was some better but far from being clear enough for analysis.
The MPI Zapruder film that was done a few years ago, was and is very clear, and available now..But they did cut out some frames, and therefore it is not the entire film, nor are all the frames within such, as Mr. Zapruder stated he had begun filming as the President's limo began it's turn onto Elm St. and as we know, it is cut at that instant and then jumps to see the motorcyle officer in view, and the limo has passed the corner and is proceeding down Elm Street..there are also some other frames that have been cut out of the film..as well.....and some that were destroyed by Life in developing, I believe......therefore in the final analysis the Zapruder film has been and is altered...and was.....in the first place, or rather what is available to us...
If other alterations of the original Zapruder film have been made, as for information shown within now, they did have many years to alter such, it was not as you seem to imply, available to all, immediately in 1963, in fact it never was....for many years, therefore the time needed to have to have accomplished such if they did...and to develop the technology was available to them...
Pat:""No, I haven't read much on flim alteration, outside of a few articles online, Jack White's article on the Z-film hoax in Murder in Dealey Plaza, and most of Fetzer's book. I decided I didn't want to get sucked into that discussion. What's important to me is that I get as many people as possible to agree that the z-film, x-rays, and autopsy photos are firm evidence for multiple shooters, irregardless if they have been altered. What bugs me the most about the arguments for alteration is that they send a clear signal to a newbie or a newsman, for that matter, that the research community agrees with the mainstream media and the lone-nut community that the evidence taken at face value suggests only one shooter. In my presentation I attempted to demonstrate that this simply isn't true! I still have hopes that Fetzer, Healey, Mantik, White, Groden, Livingstone and others will come to agree."
I do not understand here what you are saying ??
The CTrs include the alterationists.....How can they whom have worked for so many years, at trying to prove that some of the films, photos, information and whatever have been altered and therefore proves that it was not a lone assassin, as their work has been to show other shots were fired from other areas within the film..and other films and photos altered........so how do they ever agree with the lone nut community or show the media that the evidence taken at face value supports a lone assassin....?.The evidence does not ,taken at face value suggest a lone shooter....for instance take just those that were the closest to the limo when the President was killed, by what they stated,and what some testified to, certainly leads to more than one shooter.....certainly not a lone assasin...I perhaps missed your point, but did not understand clearly what it was you are trying to say....??..
If you could clarify for me any of these thoughts, I would appreciate such..
In your latest post to Dr.Fetzer, you said.
""What bothers me is that because so many believe the evidence was altered, very few have spent any real time researching what the evidence shows. I just spent two years of my life doing this, basically full time.""
This Pat is what many of us do and have been doing for many years as the information and documentation has become available, no you are far from alone in your quest..there are others who have searched and spent real time, in learning what the evidence shows, as you say...
I do believe some evidence has been altered, just one instance, some witnesses related this information themsleves, that what statements they gave to whomever, be it DPD, SS or FBI, and or the WC, was not what was placed within their reported statements when later checked..just one being Sam Holland to the WC..So within that area alone, if studied, it shows that there was more than one shooter, and a conspiracy..within that said evidence..
I have gotten your new studies re the X-Rays, thanks ,and just want you to know, that I for one, intend to study all and what your findings are along with a friend of mine who is more than qualified, as we have the Horn Research and the Second Autopsy studies in the past....as soon as I get more time and the holidays under control...... and I am very interested, I study it all, as many do..the good reports the so called bad and the same with the books....we do try not to miss anything, if much....I have found through the years there is always some information to be found in everything put out connected with the assassination ....in anyway....
Thankyou....
B..
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Hi John:
The photogaphers name was Volkand.
This copy may give you possibly,
a better view of the buildings..it has only been lightened..
B
-
Hi Robert:
There is some information on Shirley Martin , in the beginning of Harold Weisberg's
"Photographic Evidence"...
She was the first researcher to begin gathering the photographs from and in relation
to the Assassination ...I believe it was with her help he obtained the photos that he
discusses in his book....
Some "housewives" those girls....
B..
***********************
Shirley's daughter, Teresa Smith.... was on the Forum, perhaps you can contact her??
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...=shirley+martin
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...%20martin&st=15
B.......
-
Hi Robert:
There is some information on Shirley Martin , in the beginning of Harold Weisberg's
"Photographic Evidence"...
She was the first researcher to begin gathering the photographs from and in relation
to the Assassination ...I believe it was with her help he obtained the photos that he
discusses in his book....
Some "housewives" those girls....
B..
-
Jack White, who has had more experience with disseminators of disinformation than anyone else in the JFK research community, developed an axiom some time back, which holds that the more intense the attack, the closer you are to the truth. By that standard, I believe we must be right on the money ....
I hardly consider Jack's "axiom" as any kind of "standard," but rather as something that "just goes to show" how, when you're proven wrong, you're really right. It is perhaps understandable why Jack "has had more experience with disseminators of disinformation than anyone else in the JFK research community:" have you see his work to prove how Apollo 11 and 14's moon landings were hoaxes? Click here to view these wondrous analyses!
Of course, Jack has also determined that I am a "disinformation agent" and implied that I work(ed) for the CIA. I gather that determination to be rooted in the fact that I have dared to not agree with every theory espoused in the JFK thing, and even managed to discredit one or two of them, as well as the fact that I said that "my company" was transferring me to Virginia some years back (equation: "company" + "Virginia" = "CIA"). If Jack had even the slightest clue about me, he'd know otherwise. If he believes what he says, he is a fool.
He suggests that I am paranoid for asking whether he works for the US, but does not answer the question.Which must mean that he does not, otherwise "the more intense the attack, the closer you are to the truth," ergo "no attack" = "far from the truth."
He tells me that he does not believe me, even when I explain that I do not make any money from royalties on the book but recycle it to support further research."Making" money and "keeping" money are two different things. It's like saying you don't "make" money at work because you spend it all on food, shelter and clothing.
Whether he believes it or not I could care less.One spends an awful lot of time dealing with something one "couldn't" care less about.
Why would we expend the time, money, and effort to get to the bottom of this case if we did not believe what we were doing?To make money to recycle it to support further research?
We have proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, that this was not an accident.Clearly, some people have doubts, whether or not you consider them reasonable. This amounts to nothing more than saying "we've proven it to our own satisfaction." If that was a "standard" of any sort, no defendant would ever be acquitted as long as the prosecutors believed he was guilty!
(Check out my websites) and ask if I appear to be some sort of nut case or a serious scholar with important accomplishments to his credit. And if you conclude that I am a serious scholar, ask yourself why my research on Wellstone should be inferior to my research on other subjects.Even the most painstaking research can reach incorrect conclusions.
This response will, of course, "prove" that I am the "disinformation agent like [my] mentor David Perry," as Jack has charged (that "some people think") elsewhere on this forum. C'est la vie.
********************************
No ,it just proves that you have replied in a thread in which you have no interest, seeing that you have
said nothing in reference to said subject.....your just xxxxe disturbing in otherwords...
B...
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Duke,
Is this the one you're referring to?
There's a print of it on page 40 of The Search for Lee Harvey Oswald. Unfortunately I don't have a scanner.
Ron
Yeah, that's the one. Now, does anyone have one with the line of where the face is supposed to be divided?
*************************
Harvey & Lee....
Top photo on right: passport
Second photo on right :Marine
Third..right ..I believe taken in Russia..
B
-
An article by Joe Siracusa in Australia’s The Age says that the KGB believed that Texas oilmen contracted with Jack Ruby (always hire the best) to arrange the JFK assassination. Siracusa says, “The motive? JFK had infuriated big oil with the Kennedy Act of 1962, slapping taxes on US oil firms that would have cost them hundreds of millions of dollars a year.”
Having never heard of the Kennedy Act of 1962, and finding nothing on it with a preliminary Google search, I would suspect this of being some kind of Mat Wilson-type disinformation and therefore not worthy of further inquiry. But Sircusa is identified as “a specialist in presidential politics” at an Australian university, and is the author (I checked to be sure at Amazon.com) of a favorably reviewed book entitled The Kennedy Years, published by Facts on File with a price tag of $85. This tells me that Siracusa must certainly know more about the Kennedy years than I do. So are there any forum members who can educate me about the Kennedy Act of 1962?
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/who-lo...2016987735.html
*****************************
http://www.jfkmontreal.com/power_brokers.htm
Kennedy’s Oil Tax
It’s interesting Sam Bronfman invested heavily in foreign subsidiaries of Texas Pacific in 1963. Kennedy had placed a heavy tax burden on foreign subsidiaries of US oil companies. Once Kennedy was removed from office, Bronfman’s oil investments began to increase. The following is researcher Jim Marrs’ description of Kennedy’s oil tax:
When John F. Kennedy became President in 1961, the oil industry felt secure. But President Kennedy then began to assault the power of the oil giants directly, first with a law known as the Kennedy Act, and later by attacking the oil depletion allowance. The Kennedy Act, passed on October 16, 1962, removed the distinction between repatriated profits and profits reinvested abroad. Both were now subject to US taxation. The measure also was aimed at preventing taxable income from being hidden away in foreign subsidiaries and other tax havens. While this law applied to industry as a whole, it particularly affected the oil companies, which were greatly diversified with large overseas operations.
By the end of 1962, oilmen estimated their earnings on foreign investment capital would fall to 15 percent, compared with 30 percent in 1955.
One of the most sacred of provisions in the eyes of oilmen was the oil depletion allowance, which permitted oil producers to treat up to 27.5 percent of their income as tax exempt. In theory this was to compensate for the depletion of fixed oil reserves but, in effect, it gave the oil industry a lower tax rate. Under this allowance, an oilman with a good deal of venture capital could become rich with virtually no risk. For example, a speculator could drill ten wells. If nine were dry holes and only the tenth struck oil, he would still make money because of tax breaks and the depletion allowance.
It was estimated that oilmen might lose nearly $300 million a year if the depletion allowance was diminished.
Attempts to eliminate or reduce the depletion allowance were rebuffed year after year by congressmen, many of whom were happy recipients of oil-industry contributions.
Speaking of his tax reform act of 1963, President Kennedy pointed the finger at the oil companies, saying: "… no one industry should be permitted to obtain an undue tax advantage over all others."
Included in Kennedy’s tax package were provisions for closing a number of corporate tax loopholes, including the depletion allowance. Needless to say, oilmen both in Texas and elsewhere felt threatened by Kennedy and his policies. Kennedy’s use of his personal power against the steel manufacturers had shown them that the young President meant the enforce his will in these matters.
(Jim Marrs, Crossfire, pp. 276-277)
Was Sam Bronfman’s acquisition of Texas Pacific Oil truly a "shrewd move" as biographer Michael Marrus described, or was it a perk for participating in President Kennedy’s assassination?
********************
http://www.jfk-online.com/farewell10.html
http://www.jfklibrary.org/fa_white_lee_wh.html
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKbrightH.htm
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKoildepletion.htm
B..
-
Lordy Ter......
Just dropped in and thought I'd check the thread out also....
Yepper, Lynnes still here I see, chewing the
same wad she was days ago.....No further comment...
...Byeeeeeeeeee...B
Abraham Bolden
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted · Edited by Bernice Moore
Secret Service....White House Office and Chicago Office.
Abraham W.Bolden Sr.
Vince Palamara:
On temporary assigment in June 1961 to the White House Detail..The first
African-American, also the first African-American agent for the Pinkerton Agency. He entered the Secret Service in October 1960 (59?) and was separated in May 1964.
"Washington News" & "San Francisco Chronicle" 5/21/64.
" New York Times" 12/6/67.
"Washington News & San Francisco Chronicle" 5/21/64.
"New York Times" 12/6/67.
"Ramparts" magazine 1/19/68, pp/67-68:
"National Tattler" 7/5/70
Source for the 1975 "Chicago Independent " article ,interviewed by
Mark Lane "Rush To Judgement": p.275: as well as Lane's
"A Citizen's Dissent"" p/193.
Bud Fensterwald and Ian Calder interview for the
"Nashville Enquirer" 5/25/68.
and Interviewed by the HSCA 1/19/78.
Bolden is currently working on his own book with his wife..
*************************************
""Report of the Select Committee on Assassinations of the U.S. House of Representatives
In addition, the committee obtained the testimony of a former Secret Service agent, Abraham Bolden, who had been assigned to the Chicago office in 1963. He alleged that shortly before November 2, the FBI sent a teletype message to the Chicago Secret Service office stating that an attempt to assassinate the President would be made on November 2 by a four-man team using high-powered rifles, and that at least one member of the team had a Spanish-sounding name.(61) Bolden claimed that while he did not personally participate in surveillance of the subjects, he learned about a surveillance of the four by monitoring Secret Service radio channels in his automobile and by observing one of the subjects being detained in his Chicago office.(62)
According to Bolden's account, the Secret Service succeeded in locating and surveillance two of the threat subjects who,(63) when they discovered they were being watched, were arrested and detained on the evening of November 1 in the Chicago Secret Service office.(64)
The committee was unable to document the existence of the alleged assassination team. Specifically, no agent who had been assigned to Chicago confirmed any aspect of Bolden's version.(65) One agent did state there had been a threat in Chicago during that period, but he was unable to recall details.(66) Bolden did not link Vallee to the supposed
Page 232
four-man assassination team, although he claimed to remember Vallee's name in connection with a 1963 Chicago case. (67) He did not recognize Vallee's photograph when shown it by the committee. (68)
The questionable authenticity of the Bolden account notwithstanding, the committee believed the Secret Service failed to make appropriate use of the information supplied it by the Chicago threat in early November 1963. ""
http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/selec...rt/part-1d.html
****************************************************************************
Abraham W.Bolden Sr.....White House Office and Chicago Office of the Secret Service..
From Vince Palamara's "Survivors Guilt" updated...2005
The first black member of the SS..member of the WH detail whose appointement came at the instigation of President Kennedy when he appeared in Chicago in 1961..
Mr.Bolden was also the first SS agent ever "dishonourably discharged" which took place not long after the assassination..Sam Kinney stated to the author..
"We never had any bad publicity until Abe Bolden came along."
Chief Rowley told the WC.."This is the first time I remember anything like this happening since I have been in the Secret Service."
Former agent and Chief of White House Signal Corps Col George J.McNally wrote in his book, "The Secret Service for the first time in it's long history had an agent indicted for attempting to sell a government investigation report to a defendant in a counterfeiting case."..(**1**)
In writing several letters to Vince, Mr.Bolden ,pontificated about JFK "a sincere dedicated President who because of his long sufferings was able to feel the agony of others."
Bolden: " I was personally told by SAIC ,Harvey Henderson ,"Your a n.You were born a n.You're going to die a n.So act like a n,"..
( According to former Agent Art Godfrey ,"Harvey Henderson was a shift agent, never a boss or shift leader"..( Letter to author dated, 11/24/97..
Perhaps Bolden meant that Henderson was HIS boss on the shift.)
Other important details that Bolden elaborated on...
"You may ask, why was I not in Dallas in that fateful day of darkness. It is because the Secret Service White House Detail of the 60's was composed basically of new service recruits and entrenched senior agents, five of whom you named in your letter to me, who ran the Secret Service Detail ,under James Rowley ,as if their job was not to protect the President ,but to 'look good' by putting up a front that protection was being afforded . The senior agents were " party people " ( not so with Clint Hill, Ed Z.Tucker or Bob Foster). Who reported for assignment after consuming large quantities of alcohol, and attended lavish sex parties during off duty hours..... agents in Hyannis Port drank heavily the night before, the morning of , and during their Presidential guard assignments with some agents carrying liquor in their tote bags and drinking on duty....
Prior to May 21,1964, no evidence or inquisitions had been made into the conduct of the Secret Service in Dallas on November 22,1963. As I spoke with the newspaper writers and T.V. newsmen on May 20,1964, I knew from experience that the lax attitude concerning protective assignments , the deep disrespect fot Kennedy prevalent within the Service, and the propensity to consume hard liquor prior to assignment were the actual murderers of our President.. Oswald did not kill Kennedy....the attitudinal violence of the Secret Service did.!. No one could kill our President without the shots of omission fired by the Secret Service. Observe the feet of ( four )Secret Service agents glued to the running boards of the follow-up car as bullets (sic?) pierce the brain of our President.!!!".(**2**)
"If any person had the ability ,love,and compassion to better the condition of all peoples of America, it was John F.Kennedy.Oft times during my assigment of the White House , he would approach me and ask, "How are
they treating you or "How do you like the detail ?" He introduced me to every member of his cabinet saying, "This is Mr.Bolden. I brought him here to make history and to open the door for his people."
"Before I left the White House Detail (June 1961). I sought an audience with the then Chief of the Secret Service ( U.E.Baughman). I told him in no uncertain terms that (1) the Secret Service Detail was not protecting President Kennedy properly by agents reporting for work in a drunken condition and (2) when the President was assassinated it would be a direct result of laxity by agents around the President..The reply to my assertions.......was that the Secret Service had not "lost" a President in over 20 years and that to a new agent (me) it might appear that security was lax, but everything was covered."..In a follow up letter ,Bolden wrote : "In November 1963,I was in Washington ,D.C. on a super secret mission involving and Internal Revenue Investigation of the members of the House
of Representatives. My contact when I arrived was Mr.Joiner, Chief of Intelligence then for the I.R.S. I arrived in Washington on Nov.8,1963, and left Nov.11,1963, eleven days before Kennedy was assassinated .It was during this time that I discussed the breakdown in security with Chief Rowley in person and it was also at this time that I found out that Chief Rowley had written an article for Reader's Digest (s) Nov.(63) issue stating and outlining how easy it would be to assassinate a President using a high powered rifle.
Some of the copies of the Reader's Digest had already been distributed when Kennedy was assassinated. After the assassination, all copies of that issue were withdrawn and new November issues were printed deleting the "essay" by Chief Rowley .. In the assay, Chief Rowley contended that the weakness within the security of the President was " an assassin perched in the window firing a high powered rifle." You can see how such an article was extremely detrimental to the safety of President Kennedy." Letter to author dated 10/30/93.
Abe Bolden was imprisoned on trumpted up charges by the Secret Service on trying to sell a government report on a counterfeiting case, is adamant that he was innocent and framed by the Secret Service..An agent from the Chicago office, Conrad Cross, told the HSCA, "he believes Bolden was set up." But did not know by whom..(HSCA interview RIF #180 -10104-10324).
Bolden wrote: "...I surmised that the actual reason for my arrest was due to the fact that Kennedy was assassinated and that I could not be depended upon to keep quiet about my complaints ( of laxity,etc)..regarding the Secret Service."...
The assasination was the darkest days of the Secret Service history and the agency was fearful of loosing their position of being the protector of future Presidents.
Bolden : "You know what I could not understand? I talked to Jim Rowley several times, after I left Washington.D.C..it always puzzled me as to why he let this thing happen to me in Chicago . That bothered me because he impressed me as a fairly decent guy, a fair man it seemed, ...I just can't ...I don't know if this thing that happened ( to me )was over his head or he couldn't stop it because he was the Chief of the Secret Service..I just can't believe that Chief Rowley would let this happen...."
Mr.Bolden also had wished that his fellow agents had been at the trial or at least had read the transcript..
As it did turn out one agent WAS at Bolden's trial ( both of them in fact)..
Louis B.Sims..who was later discovered as being one of the agents who were in charge of maintaining the elaborate eavesdropping operation for the Nixon, White House..and changing the tapes...( RIF #180-10093-10022:HSCA interview with Sims..5/22/78.
Abe Bolden was unaware that Rowley testified to the WC about his case, and in some length...but the WC never called Bolden..J.Lee Ranklin had asked Rowley ,"Chief Rowley, have you had any other complaints similar to this in regard to the conduct of the Secret Service agents on the Presidential or White House detail ?".
"We had one in the last month .We had charges leveled at us by an agent of the Secret Service..........Who is currently under indictment, and who will be brought to trial on criminal charges on the 29th of June. And ,for that reason while I have no reluctance to discuss it, I think we should go off the record, because I don't want in any way to prejudice the case..( Bolden) said he was framed . Now, he said he was framed because he was prepared to go before your Commission, Sir, to testify about this thing that happened 3 years ago ,and in the charges he said he advised me ,as well as others ,and nothing was done. He said he was framed for this reason....He had never made any complaint to me. It came as a complete surprise." ( WC 5 H 454-455, 457-458).
Considering that the charges that Bolden had made in 1962...to Chief Baughman it is easy to see why Rowley could make this statement..But Rowley made no mention of Bolden's claim to having spoken with him in early Nov. 1963, when he was in Washington....
Rowley continued.."Now, in order to determine their ability and fitness for assignment ,since some people are better criminal investigators than they are at protection work, we have an orientation program, which includes duty on the White House detail..Mr. Bolden was one of the men selected to come in the summer of 1961.He was also a replacement for some regular agent on the detail who was on leave..It was a 30 day assignment. This afforded us an opportunity to observe him, determine whether he was equipped and so forth. And he was on the White House detail for this short period of time. The time that he describes was a five day weekend up at Hyannis Port ....
Before he left his detail assignment, you see, he alleges that he told me about the condition that was going on up in Hyannis...When he left to return to his office in Chicago......The fact is he never informed me..He never informed any of his supervisors or anyone on the detail......I found out there was no truth to charges of misconduct. There was 11 charges lodged against us, one, charge, the ninth charge, a part of it is true.The boys did contribute for food. In otherwards up there in Hyannis, when they are up there for a week, or a weekend , they would be assigned to a house, which economically was beneficial to them .One shift, and some of the drivers would be in this house. This house was in a remote area from the shopping area and so forth..So they agreed when they arrived there ,to contribute to buy food for breakfast, it being an 8 to 4 shift. Eight to four meant they would have breakfast there and dinner...One of the agents who enjoyed it as a hobby cooked the meals for them, while the others took care of the dishes ...when they went shopping they bought two or three cases of beer which they had available in the icebox when the men came off duty in the evening.".(.WC 5H 455-457.)
In both his letters and interviews with Palamara, Abe Bolden expressed much interest and suspicion in Harvey Henderson, his "boss" during this time on the White House Detail".. "While in New York on a protective assignment, Harvey Henderson countermanded a direct order from the President ..This occurred in September or October 1963 ( Mr.Bolden may be mistaken the time period may have been mid November 1963...a mere week or so before Dallas )..(**3**)
"The President subsequently had Henderson removed from the detail, this act was very unpopular with Jerry Behn, Emory Roberts,and others on the detail."...
Abe Bolden elaborated on the telephone...with the author..
"Do you know what happened to Harvey Henderson? I heard that he had been relieved of his Detail by President Kennedy himself...Harvey had made some threats like, 'We'll get you'...I understand that he told the President "I'll get you,or something to that effect. ...(it was) no secret that Kennedy wanted him removed from the detail...Harvey was a quick tempered guy who couldn't take the heat..Where is Harvey Henderson at ?I think that you would do well if you could find out where Harvey Henderson was on November 22- can you track him down ? In mentioning the Secret Service credentials present in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63, Bolden said, in reference to Harvey Henderson ...
" that's the first thing that crossed my mind ..he would have the nerve, the guts ,the anger, the craziness, the instability..I'm not saying he was in Dallas ,but I'm saying that it would be something to look at"..
Harvey Henderson died in 1994 before Vince Palamara could locate and contact him for any comment .....Interestingly regarding a plot to kill Martin Luther King was furnished by Henderson, the ASAIC of the Birmingham Secret Service office ,on 3/11/65, over three years before MLK's murder.
(**4**).
In speaking to two other agents Maurice Martineau, (Mr.Bolden's superior in Chicago) and Robert Lilley, the name Harvey Henderson,struck a nerve..Martineau spoke nervously :" I knew him...not very well...I didn't have too much contact with him."..
Asked when Mr.Henderson "left" the W.H detail.Lilley said he "would have left .....pause....probably 1962."(**5**)
Former agent Walt Coughlin wrote: "Harvey (The Birmingham Baron) Henderson had left the Detail when I arrived (6/62.).but I recall he was there for most of the 1950s.. ( Undated letter to author received 2/21/04)...Walt later added ,"Harvey Henderson he ( Bolden) is probably rite (sic) about ".
In contrast ,former agent Gerald Blaine who claims to have been on Bolden's temporary shift at the White House,wrote on 6/12/05: "I don't remember anybody on the detail that was racist .Merit was perceived by a person's actions ,their demeanor ,reliability,,dependability and professional credibility ...not race!...Harvey was not even on the shift that Bolden was during his thirty days stay. Even though Harvey Henderson was from Mississippi, I never heard of him discriminating nor demeaning anyone because of race."
Darwin Horne wrote :"Harvey Henderson was on the detail from about 1952 to about 1960 and then went ro Birmingham."'( E-mail to author dated 2/22/04)..Former V.P. L.B.J agent Jerry Kivett wrote "I knew Harvey Henderson but do not know when he served on the White House detail .Probably late 50's to early 60's."( letter to author dated 2/18/04).
Oliver Stone consultant Gus Russo told the author in 92..that Mr.Bolden told him that Agent Robert Lilley" was either privy to the assassination or had foreknowledge. " When asked Bolden if this was true, he nervously said :
"(pause)....I don't recall right at this moment.......I don't recall right at this moment."..........
Lawyers John Hosmer, Sherman Skolnick, Bernard Fensterwald & Mark Lane were convinced that Abe Bolden was framed on wrongful charges. Also, Sen.Sam Irving ( later of Watergate fame),Sen.Edward Long, Asst. Att.Gen.Fred Vinson, and U.S. Att. Edward Hanrahan were involved in the Bolden case....Abe Bolden told Palamara that "The Secret Service office here in Chicago knows there was no crime committed ...they absolutely know that there was no crime committed." his attorney from Springfield, Ill. John Hosner ,believes that "his client was imprisoned as a result of information
he has about the assassination."..( AARC files provided to the author by
researcher Bill Adams)...
Bolden retained Attorney Hosner because he "knew how the government worked."
In a letter to Josiah Thompson dated 12/26/67,Att.Hosner outlined his case:
"Some peculiar and remarkable things happened before and during the trial...three SS informers were the witnesses against Bolden..
One of whom
Joseph Spagnoli ,later in his own trial ,admitted perjury at the behest of the Government, and Bolden's, alleged co-conspirator, a man he had arrested twice ( Frank W.Jones) was never brought to trial..the "shaft " was put to Bolden by the Secret Service and the Government ."...
In prison 3/14/68, in a letter ,Abe Bolden summed it up to Senator Long:
" I was kidnapped, denied an attorney ,convicted on perjury evidence and suborned by the government ,convicted by methods used by the trial judge
that surpressed evidence favorable to the defense, and perjury admitted during the trial by government witnesses was surpressed from the jury."
He added, " U.S. District Judge J.Sam Perry instructed the jury , while that jury was in deliberation ,that 'In my opinion, the evidence shows the defendant to be guilty of counts 1,2 and 3 in the indictment .'
To give any personal opinion to a deliberating jury, by anyone, is clearly a violation of law called jury tampering.
Yet, after a mistrial was declared in the 1st trial, this same Judge J.Sam Perry( with opinion) intact heard the 2nd trial.. Moreover he was upheld by the 7th Circuit Court U.S.Court of Appeals who ruled that such opinions do not show prejudice on the part of the Judge..Then what would he have to do to show prejudice? Lynch me? This charge by a Judge has never been used by a Causasian Judge against a Causasian defendant !..".....
" Then how did the government case against me initiate?..On or about May 11,1964. Frank W.Jones ,a counterfeiter of U.S.currency who had been twice arrested by me and who at that time had a case pending in the Federal District Court due to my investigations, called J.Lloyd Stocks (Acting Assistant Special Agent in Chicago of the Chicago office.) Jones wanted to talk to an agent about information he had concerning another counterfeiting ring. According to Stocks, Jones was afraid of going to jail and wanted to co-operate with the SS...Stocks called me into the office on May 11,1964 and assigned me to interview Jones. I vigorously protested to Stocks because
(1) I had arrested Jones and was to be chief witness against him as the counterfeiting plant was discovered by me in his home during a set raid.
(2) Jones could be setting me up to be killed or otherwise harmed and
(3) I was leaving the SS School on May 16,1964 and there was no time to develop Jones as an informant. Both Acting Assistant SA in Charge Maurice G.Martineau and Acting Asst. SA in Charge J.Lloyd Stocks overruled my objections and I was told to meet with Jones or resign...I met Jones at his home at approximately 11 AM on May 11/64..Jones purported to have information concerning the "Dagos" ( Joseph Spagnoli et.al.counterfeiting band case) who was arrested on our about May 6/64. I was one of the arresting officers in that case also..After speaking with Jones for about a 1/2 hour while parked in a SS vehicle in front of Jones' home, Jones and I went to a McDonald's restaurant where I exited the car leaving Jones seated inside.
Later I dropped off Jones at home and drove back to the SS office, 219 South Dearborn in Chicago. I reported the conversation with Jones to ASAIC Martineau. Mr Martineau stated over my objections for the same reasons listed above, that Jones should be developed as an informant and Mr.
Martineau issued Jones an informant number by which he was to be reffered in any subsequent reports....Jones called me at my home on the night of the 11th and told me he had met with some Dagos and that these Dagos dealt in " a lot of suits" .He stated that one of them, Joe, was to call him and that he would get a lot of good information from Joe.."
"The next day, May 12/64, I met Jones at his home about 10AM Jones reiterated his confusing story stating that the counterfeiting plates for the $100.00 bonds were in the hands of "Slim" and we could buy them for
$50,000. I immediately drove to the SS office and told ASAIC Martineau what Jones said. I also took that opportunity to dictate my reports on this matter to June Marie Terpinas ,secretary for the SS..Mr. Martineau agreed that it appeared that Jones was leading us on a wild goose chase and interested only in helping himself. I was instructed to stay away from Jones and discontinue the operation. ..Jones called me at the SS office around 2.30pm on May 12/64, I told Jones that "Spagnoli called the boss and stopped all contacts with him." Spagnoli was determined to be the "Joe" referred to by Jones as the Dago..
When the SS arrested me and brought me to Chicago, they charged me with
(1) Solicitation of a bribe..(2) Conspiracy: and (3) Obstruction of Justice based upon the allegations that I had sent Jones to Spagnoli to solicit a $50,000 bribe. For this bribe, Spagnoli was to receive an onionskin copy of a SS report detailing the government's case against Spagnoli and 6 other defendants."
"During the trial, it was brought out that I in fact was given an onionskin report to review and pass on to Agent Conrad Cross .Cross also worked on the Jones case with me. It was further affirmed that I in fact gave the Spagnoli onionskin report to Agent Cross while inside the SS office on the morning of May 8/64 Cross further stated that he read and "lost" the onionskin report..
During the trial no onionskin report was introduced into evidence. The only document that pertained to the onionskin was a passage from the report re-typed on bond paper. The name Vito Zaccagnini was mispelled (Zaggacnini) throughout the passage ,this could have been the result of someone making a quick reading or writing of the paragraph and reproducing what he thought he saw. According to Mr. Nason, who testified on behalf of the government concerning fingerprints lifted from the excerpt typed on bond paper ,my fingerprints appeared nowhere on the paper. The fingerprints of both Jones and Spagnoli were clearly identified, but there was not one shred of evidence linking me to the excerpt introduced into evidence .... except the testimony of Jones who testified, "he removed the paper from his briefcase and handed it to me (on May 11,1964). There is no documented testimony as to how the onion skin paper changed to bond paper or how I could insert a paper in a typewriter, type the excerpt, remove the excerpt from my briefcase and give it to Jones (while not wearing gloves) and not one hint of my fingerprints were anywhere on the paper.".
After he was charged by the SS and the Gov. on May18/64..he was released on bail on the 19th.....He felt betrayed and angry...a warrant had been issued and the decision had been made that he had in fact committed a criminal act.
He realized that the agency had abandoned him and he had been set up, by Jones, Spagnoli or the SS itself..
He recalled how he had openly derided the agency for blowing the Chicago investigation of an assassination plot against the President in Nov./63..two weeks before he was shot in Dallas.
He felt he had been coerced to meet Jones by the SS and now they were acting as if this was a special deal between Jones and him outside the agency. On May 20th /64 he decided to hit back..where he felt it would hurt the most..
Shortly after Nov.22/63 there were rumours circulating within the agency(which turned out to be true) that the night before ,agents of the detail in Dallas were intoxicated..in a teahouse (sic) .Rumour had it that a few agents had become so intoxicated that one had lost his U.S.Treasury Commission book..The stories inside the agency persisted they they knew whose Identification had been lost or stolen but to admit to such, would place the agency in a bad predicament..
In Jan.65 ,Joseph Spagnoli, the counterfeiter contacted by his attorney Frank Oliver, Spagnoli admitted in open court that he had committed perjury in the
"Bolden trial" , he produced a yellow sheet of paper that he admitted stealing from the office of the U.S.Attorney during a pre-trial conference.. Judge Perry asked Spagnoli if he understood that he was admitting to perjury to which he replied ,"Yes,sir."..He openly confessed that the government attorney Richard Sykes solicited the perjured testimony...The change of the dates appearing on the stolen paper and the change of times of Jones' contact with Spagnoli wrere all in the handwriting of Assistant U.S.Attorney Richard T.Sykes..
An effort to get a hearing on a perjury matter before the Judge Perry, by his attorney Raymond Smith proved to be unsuccessful and the case went to the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals in 65...During the argument before them the issue of Spagnoli's perjury was brought up..Judge Luther Swygert summoned Attorney Richard Sykes into the courtroom and point blank asked him if he had solicited perjury in the Bolden trial..Sykes reply was..
" Your honor, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it may tend to incriminate me."
""In June 1965, the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals affirmed the conviction noting in a footnote that Spagnoli was " less than forthright in his testimony."
In June 1966, the U.S.Supreme Court refused to grant Certiarori and on
June 25,1966..I commenced to serve a 6 year sentence in custody of the Federal Bureau of Prisons ( in Springfield ,Missouri)..
Interestingly ,in the case of Richard Case Nagell, an intelligence agent who knew both LHO (WCD 197,regarding Nagell, says in it's inquiry ;"For the record he would like to say that his association with Oswald was purely social and that he met him in Mexico City and in Texas.)and had allegedly uncovered a plot to kill JFK in advance ,was placed in a cell directly across from Bolton..
Former WHD and Chicago office agent Joseph E.Noonan .Jr. told the HSCA on 4/13/78 that.."he briefly discussed the elements of the Spagnoli case and told us that there was no way that Bolden was going to be able to give Spagnoli files which would really help him with his case. He could only feed him office files and Spagnoli already knew that information. The Secret Service had "turned" Spagnoli's girlfriend and she was the one who set him up. Bolden's case was a sad chapter in the Chicago office of the Secret Service", according to Noonan..
That Bolden had gotten a stiff rap from the judge 6 years,and part of the problem was Bolden's personality..He talked, and angered many people within the SS..with allegations about their laxity in the President's protection functions. Noonan also said " Bolden was too gentle for this job. Abe never wanted to arrest anybody"..However, former agent Bob Lilley said he Bolden was" a good street agent."..(Author's inteview with Lilley 9/27/92.).
In the Washington Post on 5/21/64 was the report that ...
" Mr.Bolden who has graduated cum laude from Lincoln University in Jefferson City, Missouri ,and won two commendations for cracking counterfeit rings after he joined the Secret Service, said the charge was a 'direct result' of his superiors' learning his intentions to testify before the Commission." Mr Bolden had attempted to contact the Warren Commission's General Council ,J.Lee Rankin in May of 1964 from a White House phone during his stay in Washington to attend a special Secret Service school, the next day..Mr Bolden was charged with attempting to sell a government report .He should have known better his earlier talks with both Chief Baughman in 1961 and Chief Rowley in 1963 went unheeded ,and he was transferred out of the White House Detail and out to the ordinary anti-counterfeiting duty in the Chicago office. This second request for an audience for his testimony was a bad mistake, but Mr.Bolden had information to tell the Commisssion far more important than laxity of duty and drinking by agents..
When JFK was scheduled to be in Chicago on 11/2/63 for the Army/Air
Force game at Soldier Field, Mr.Bolden was a member of the Chicago office of the Secret Service handling security. As Warren Swindall noted,"The visit had political implications as JFK 'stood up' Mayor Daley on a similar scheduled visit the previous year, and the President was most anxious to mend his fences before the next years election ."
(AARC files provided to the author in 1993 by Jim Lesar ..
The eleven mile parade from O'Hare Airport to Soldier Field caused considerable misgivings to the Secret Service.
1: JFK's Limousine "would pass through a warehouse district which the Secret Service advance men consider ten times more deadly than any building corridor".
( Chicago Independent ,article by Edwin Black, November 1975. During Bolden's 1/9/78 HSCA interview he stated that he was the unamed informant who supplied information for Black's article. He was not the only source however he used,( i.e HSCA interview of former Chicago Agent Robert J.Motto,etc) Inspector Thomas Kelley also noted the Secret Service's concern regarding warehouses, even those that were partially occupied (3 HSCA 335). Of course, the Texas School Book Depository was a partially occupied warehouse.)..
2: Involve a "slow, difficult left-hand turn".
3: " A difficult 90 degree turn that would slow (JFK) to practically a standstill.
However, prior to the scheduled visit,Chief James J.Rowley himself phoned SAIC Maurice G.Martineau with word that ,via J.Edgar Hoover and the FBI. they had word of an assassination plot involving a four-man team of gunmen. According to Bernard Fensterwald's memo from his interview with Mr.Bolden, "Martineau called in all men in his charge in Chicago and told them of Rowley's call. He also informed them of the following as to this matter,
(1) There were to be no written reports: any information was to be given to Martineau orally..
(2) Nothing was to be sent by TWX (inter-office teletype):
He (Martineau )was to report only by phone to Rowley , personally.
(3) No file number was to be given to this case .All Secret Service agents in Chicago ( including Bolden) were shown four photos of the men allegedly involved in the plot (of the four, Bolden remembers two names Bradley and Gonzalez." ( Memo dated 3/29/68 via AARC: Bolden letter to Congressman Louis Stokes, 1/26/92 ( obtained by the author from Bolden).
Mr. Bolden named six other agents involved in the meeting with Martineau:
James S Griffiths ,Joseph E.Noonan ,Steven B Maynard , Robert J.Motto,
Thomas D.Strong, and J.Lloyd Stocks( The last three were named and contacted by the Chicago Independent.)
Former agents :
Sam Kinney (2/26/78 HSCA (RIF#180-10078-10493)
Bill Greer ( 2/28/78 HSCA (RIF #180-10099-104911)
Robert Kollar ( 3/1/78 HSCA (RIF # 180-10071-10163) (at the time of the HSCA hearing ,Kollar was the ASAIC of the Ford Protective Division (12/14/77letter from SS legal Counsel Robert O.Goff to the HSCA's G.Robert Blakey ,RIF #180-101-10218
J.Lloyd Stocks (4/12/78 HSCA (RIF #180-10104-10326)
Gary M.McLeod (3/6/78 HSCA (RIF#180-10071-10164)
Robert J.Motto (12/30/77 HSCA (RIF#180-10087-10190)
Edward Tucker (1/19/78 HSCA (RIF#180-10070-10276)
David Grant (2/3/78 HSCA (RIF #180-10082-10451)
James Griffith (2/1/78 HSCA(RIF #180-10082-10453)
Abraham W.Bolden (1/19/78 HSCA(RIF #180-10070-10273)
Maurice G.Martineau (2/1/78 HSCA (RIF #180-10087-10191)
Told the HSCA that this 11/2/63 Chicago trip was cancelled at the last minute..(Strangely, SAICJerry Behn told the HSCA on 1/30/78 that he was
"unable to recall anything about the President's cancellation of his planned appearance on (11/2/63).He did not remember hearing about either the trip or it's political purpose.Yet,"He did remember SA Dave Grant was advance agent from the WHD to Chicago for the 11/1 (63.sic) trip. he (also) did remember that Maurice Martineau was the acting SAIC of the Chicago office at the time of the trip." to which one of the HSCA investigators appropriately handwrote in a "?"to end the sentence.
David Grant was the advance agent for the proposed 11/2/63 Chicago trip. Robert L.Kollar assisted Grant in the preparations ,arriving in Chicago a week before the start of the trip. One of the SS Shift Reports for 11/2/63 reads, "(Note:Above SA's (ATSAIC/ Shift Leader Emory P.Roberts ,Lubert F. "Burt" deFreeze ,J.Frank Yeagger (In a letter to the Author dated 1/24/04 ,Yeager wrote,"I do not remember a cancellation of a trip to Chicago ,I only remember a cancellation of a trip to Seattle from Chicago during the Cuban missile crisis when we returned to Washington (Oct.62).I don't remember who was in charge that day..Donald J.Lawton, Charles T.Zboril, and William
T.McIntyre) departed Wash. D.C 8.40am. via AAL enroute to Chicago while in air approx. 20 minutes from Chicago ,advised that Pres. cancelled trip returned to Wash. D.C,12.15pm.( USSS Record #1541000110174: ATSSAIC Emory Roberts' report.) The report also notes in addition to Roberts, deFreeze,Yeager,Lawton, Zboril, and McIntyre, ASIAC Floyd M.Boring,and William R.Greer, departed the WH with President Kennedy via two helicopters at 6.05pm for Atoka, Middleburg,VA. the Kennedy residence,
arriving at 6.40pm. Another SS Shift Report notes that Samuel A.Kinney
"arrived Wash. D.C ,Andrews AF base 4.50pm via USAF Plane C-130-2368
from Chicago Ill.( USSS Record # 1541000110173) Mrs.Kellerman told the author on 3/2/92 that Roy's only television appearance was during the Army/
Air Force game, presumably the same one as held on 11/2/63 in Chicago
(based on the contect of the conversation). This is the only documentation
for Kellerman's presence on that day : the shift reports do not mention him at all).
"""Bolden wrote to the author :"I do not believe Oswald acted alone because evidence in that there were at least 3 riflemen following the President just 3 weeks before he was assassinated in Dallas."""
Direct and indirect corroboration for Abraham Bolden's accounts of mortal
threats to President Kennedy's life in Chicago, and in general, and the 11/2/63 plot in Chicago , as follows.......
1: HSCA Report "One ( unamed) agent ( Robert Motto) did state there had been a threat in Chicago during that period, but was unable to recall details".(HSCA p: 231 & 636 12/30/77: Doc: 008482.)
2: J.Lloyd Stocks : recalled" something about a guy called Vallee" --that was
Thomas Arthur Vallee , a man arrested apart from this four man team.
(Chicago Police Officer Peter Schurla was interviewed 1/18/78 by HSCA regarding surveillance and early morning arrest of Vallee on 11/2/63 (HSCA RIF #180 -10070-10277) .Stocks also told the HSCA on 4/12/78 that he remembered the Vallee incident but did not take part in the investigation.(agents' Thomas Strong and Ed Tucker handled the case.).(HSCA RIF
# 180-10104-103261)
3: "Martineau said that he was in Chicago when President Kennedy made a visit prior to November 63...He could not recall the precise date.."We got a telephone threat .The caller was not identified, that Kennedy was going to be killed when he got to Jackson Street. We adjusted the routine to rely on the Chicago Police to cover the area. The threat did not materialize ." he said ...We asked Martineau about threats against JFK in (the )Chicago area (for)
November 1963...Martineau visibly stiffened ."I can recall no threat that was
significant enough to cause me to recollect at this time." he said..In contrast to the wealth of detail which flooded his earlier recollections ,his answers became vague and less responsive." ( 2/1/78 HSCA interview with Martineau HSCA RIF #180-10087-101971).
4: Col.George J.McNally,WH Signal Corps (and former SS agent) ..""But
during the Chicago visit (either 10/62 or, most likely,3/23/63) the motorcade
was slowed to the pace of a mounted Black Horse Troop, and the police got a warning of Puerto Rican snipers.Helicopters searched the roofs along the way and no incidents occurred."" (**6**.
5: "A postcard was received in the Saturday morning mail of the Chicago office threatening the life of the President during the (3/23/63) motorcade from O'Hare Field to the Conrad Hilton Hotel." (RIF # 154-100063-10012:
Chicago,IL. trip 3/23/63 SS survey report ..6 motorcycles surrounding the limo, Lawton RIDING on (JFK's side of) REAR of LIMO, Mayor's follow up car with four detectives in ADDITION to SS follow up car ,police FACING crowd
(not JFK) on the route, NO-ONE permitted on Overpass except four policemen guarding them, Press/Photographers Close to JFK..Hatcher with Kilduff, PRS" One threat ( the postcard ). WHD on trip : Grant advance man.. Burke, Pontius, Lilley ,Johnson, Chandler, Giannoules, Lawton, Blaine, Lawson, Olsson, Burns,
Paolella, Godffrey, Boring, Greer, Shipman, O'Leary: Chicago office agents: Hanly, Tucker, Martineau, Plichta, Bolden, Cross, Maynard, Stocks, Gorman,
Noonan, Griffiths, Motto, McLeod, Russell, Strong.
6: FBI agent Thomas B.Coll :"I remember that case. Some people were picked up. And I'm telling you it wasn't ours. That was strictly a Secret Service Affair.The whole Soldier Field matter was a Secret Service affair:...You'll get no more out of me. I've said as much as I'm going to on that subject. Get the rest from the Secret Service."
7: Captain Robert Linsky ( the security liaison between the Chicago Police and the Secret Service), remembered the Vallee arrest.
( Backed up by governments reports on file at the AARC.)
8: Sergeant Lawrence Coffey:"Naturally, I remember every detail...How often is anyone involved in a threat against the President's life."
9: Thomas Arthur Vallee himself :"Soldiers Field, The plot against John F.Kennedy." Mr.Vallee claimed he was framed by someone with special knowledge about him, such as his "CIA assigment to train exiles to assassinate Castro." (Vallee HSCA report P: 231-232..(**7**)
10: PRS Agent Glen A Bennett: ".....remembers the name Vallee but does not recall why."(HSCA 1/30/78: RIF #180-10082-104521.)
11: Agent Joseph E. Noonan, Jr.: "participated directly in surveillance involving TOM MOSELY and HOMER ECHEVARRIA ..he and (the) other agents were uneasy that the Cubans might have some ties to the CIA...
a little later they received a call from Headquarters to DROP EVERYTHING ON MOSELY AND ECHEVARRIA AND SEND ALL MEMOS FILES, AND THEIR NOTEBOOKS TO WASHINGTON AND NOT TO DISCUSS THE CASE WITH ANYONE ." Noonan also knew about the Vallee case.
(HSCA 4/13/78 interview of Noonan Re: Mosely and Echevaria ...12/19/63 USSS report ( Martineau to Paterni ) ( HSCA RIF # 180-10087-10137) 12/13/63 USSS report ( HSCA RIF # 180--10087-10138) See HSCA p:236.)
12: Agent James S.Griffiths: "Griffith(s)stated that the name of Thomas Vallee was familiar and remembers a case concerning VALLEE, but does not remember any of the details."..( HSCA 2/1/78 interview of Griffiths : At the time of the HSCA hearings, Griffiths was the SAIC of the Special Investigation & Security Division (12/14/77 letter from SS Legal Council Robert O.Goff to the HSCA's G.Robert Blakey ,RIF# 180-10112-10218).
13: "Chicago's American",11/26/63:"Daly Diary " by Maggie Daly: "The word is that the assassination of President Kennedy was planned at a meeting on Chicago's West side in the early part of February...That a dissident Cuban group financed Lee Harvey Oswald and that he lived on occasional money from the members and occasional money from his Mother."
( As reproduced in HSCA RIF # 180-10087-10137:) In this same HSCA collection ,there is a reproduction of a "Chicago Daily News" article dated 11/26/63.In the article ,Mrs Ruth Paine the woman instrumental in getting Oswald the TSBD job and who was also maintaining lodging for Marina Oswald & the girls, is quoted as saying, "I understand there are people in the Chicago area who are talking of helping (Marina) too."
14: Agent Edward Z.Tucker: told the HSCA the details of his involvement in the Thomas Arthur Vallee investigation. (HSCA 1/1/9/78 interview RIF #180-10070-10276). Fellow Chicago office agent Conrad Cross told the HSCA " the name Thomas Arthur Vallee was familiar and it was Ed Tucker's case." (HSCA RIF # 180-10104-10324).
15: Agent Gary M.McLeod: told the HSCA that he did recall the name Thomas Arthur Vallee and that Agent Ed Tucker was assigned to the Vallee case that involved guns but does not remember any involvement with the Chicago Police (here McLeod is dead wrong)..Chicago Police Officer Peter Schurla was interviewed 1/18/78 by the HSCA pertaining to surveillance and early morning arrest of Thomas Vallee on 11/2/63 (HSCA RIF # 180-10070-10277) Also, fellow agent Ed Tucker mentions the Chicago police surveillance of Vallee during his 1/19/78.(HSCA interview (HSCA RIF # 180-10070-10276).
16: Again, Agent Robert J. Motto told the HSCA ....( The trip was cancelled. I think they told us at the ( Air Force/Army game at Soldier's Field ) but we decided to watch it anyway. ...When I got back to the office, somone said there had been threats. (HSCA 12/30/77 interview with Motto RIF # 180-10113-10038).
17: Agent Louis B.Sims: told the HSCA..."...he could not remember dates but that he recalls it could have been any time up to a year prior to the assassination ,he was assigned to conduct a surveillance on a subject that was either Puerto Rican or Cuban .He does not remember any specific details other than it involved gun running and it appeared to be a very sensitive investigation. He stated the names Echevarria and Manual Rodriquez were familiar but he couldn't place them..(HSCA 5/22/78 RIF # 180-10093-100221.)
(Emphasis added)..
Myron I."Mike" Weinstein in the "Chicago Independant " article,11/75..it was noted that he was from Minneapolis to aid with the Chicago plot investigation.11/63..During President Fords' administration, Weinstein was the Assistant Director for Inspections..during President Carters', he was also the same..Asst.Dir. for Inspections..( noted by William McIntyre 1/31/78 HSCA interview RIF # 180-10082-10454.)..before he became the Asst.Dir.for Protective Intelligence . Weinstein was then promoted to Deputy Director when Lilburn E."Pat" Boggs retired..during President Reagan's era..
In the 90s ,Weinstein served as Director of Corporate Security for Texas Instruments and was a member of the Overseas Security Advisory Council. ..OSAC...for the Dept of State, with former agents' Radford W.Jones ,Manager Security for the Ford Motor Company..Robert R.Burke, Director of Corporate Service and Security for the Monsanto Co., and Gerald S.Blaine, OSAC Private Sector Representatives for the IBM Corp. and later as Director of International Security..for the ARCO International Oil and Gas Co., Jones, Burke,and Blaine were former JFK, WHD agents in Nov. 1963...( In fact ,Burke and Blaine were on the Austin leg of JFK's doomed Texas trip..)..
And last but not least former agent Charles W."Chuck" Rochner..member of the WHD from the Nixon to Carter, served with the OSAC during his capacity as Vice President of Corporate Security for Cox Enterprises Inc..
Abraham had told the HSCA that the Vallee threat was independent of the four man team, and he told the Author Vince Palamara the same thing.
He added that the confusion was "done intentionally by the government agencies..".
Incredibly David Grant, the man who did the advance for the 11/2/63 Chicago trip, told the HSCA that ..."no information about a threat ever came to his attention from any source including PRS, the local Chicago SS office, and the Chicago P.D...Specifically ,Mr.Grant was "not familiar " with the name Thomas Arthur Vallee, a person who was suspected by the Chicago SS to be involved in a threat and who was detained by the SS..Nor could he Grant ,"recall " in the context of this trip other instances of the investigation of a threat or the detention of a person."..(HSCA interview RIF# 180-10082-10451).
Also, Robert Kollar who assisted in the advance, also let it be known to the HSCA that "he has no recollection of any subject named Thomas Arthur Vallee nor does he recall ever being told that he was a "threat" to the President or that Vallee had been taken into custody by the Chicago P.D.
He also stated that he had never heard of any other possible threat to the President in the Chicago area during his advance trip to Chicago ..(HSCA 3/1/78 RIF 180-10071-10163.)
Agent Louis B.Sims, while he told the HSCA some tantalizing information regarding the surveillance (see above)..also said "he had no recall of any threat relative to the Presidental visit to Chicago in April (sic..March )1963.
(HSCA 5/22/78 interview RIF # 180-10093-10022.)
Agent John Ready ."He stated that to his knowledge no trip had ever been cancelled because of a threat ." Recalling a trip in 1972 with Dr.Henry Kissinger involving a threat ,Ready stated :"the only thing changed was the route." (HSCA 3/1/78 interview RIF # 180-10071-10165).
Likewise ,Agent Gary McLeod, stated that he has heard of trips being altered but has never heard of one being cancelled because of a threat..(HSCA RIF # 180-10071-10164)..
However, as Philip Melanson,author, has written.."(President) Nixon was scheduled to visit New Orleans in late Aug.1973, where he was planning to ride in an open car motorcade through the city's French Quarter. The Secret uncovered a purported assassination plot and asked Nixon to cancel the motorcade: reluctantly, Nixon did so, issuing the order personally."(**8**).
The JFK motorcade was cancelled at the last minute, seemingly for two different reasons:
(1)A cold (The same made up alibi JFK gave to Salinger in reference to the Cuban Missile Crisis the year before in Chicago.).(**9**)
(Agent Gary McLeod said JFK having a cold was the reason for the cancellation of the 11/2/63 trip. (HSCA 3/6/78 int. )
While agent David Grant called it an "illness" (2/3/78 HSCA int.)
For his part Agent William Greer could not recall why.(2/28/78 HSCA int.)
SAIC Jerry Behn could not even recall the trip itself.!. (1/30/78 HSCA int.)
Agent Sam Kinney said the reason for the cancellation was " The Cuban Missile Crisis"..obviously confusing the 11/2/63 trip with the 10/62 Chicago trip (2/26/78 HSCA interview.).Finally, when the author talked to Walt Coughlin, former agent..just why the trip was cancelled ,he stated "I have not a clue."..
(2)And the Diem assassination though Salinger himself announced at 9.30am..
a special communications facility was to be constructed under the bleachers at Soldiers Field to keep the President up to date on minute details in coup torn Sth. Vietnam..He stated Kennedy would not cancel the trip..( Chicago Independent.. Nov.75.)
Mr.Vallee had been arrested and was off the streets.,so it would appear obvious that the real reason for the cancellation would be ..the threat of the 4 man team, two of them alluding surveillance and had escaped..!!.
Albraham Bolden managed to get information out into the public domain.
The New York Times documented it for the record on 12/6/67...
Before concluding, the information on Mr.Bolden..it is important to take a look at agents Maurice G.Martineau, and Robert E.Lilley...
Martineau G.Maurice who was the SAIC of the Chicago field office....he was a member of the SS from 1941-1972 and had served some 32 years..(author's interview 9/21/93 & 6/7/96.)..A member of the WHD during President FDR's administration and temporary assignments for President Eisenhower..
Mr.Martineau stated that "Any time they (the White House Detail came thru Chicago (he) worked very close with the advance team from Washington."
Most Important Martineau confirmed that the motorcade was cancelled "at the last minute...I was already out at the airport "..to meet JFK's plane when this occurred ,he said..Mr.Bolden was a touchy subject: "As far as Bolden is concerned, I'd rather not discuss it..He was a blight on the agency."
Martineau also stated that he " was subpoenaed to testify before"..the HSCA ,which he declared, " a lot more valid than the Warren Commission.".HSCA Executive Session 3/15/78 (RIF # 180-10116-10084)..
He believed "there was more than one assassin "..on 11/22/63..stemming from the HSCA report ,also his own role in the investigation, and his extensive experience in firearms (agency and recreational),as well as his own gut feelings on 11/22/63: "As soon as I learned some of the details..".
When the author informed him of Agent Kinney's own beliefs (see above),including Kinney's qualification that his own" outfit was clean,"
Martineau stated: "Well...ah...(long pause)...I've got some theories, too, but,ah...without any actual data to back them up, I think I'll keep them to myself."
Abraham Bolden was adamant that Mr.Martineau knew about both the plot to kill JHK on 11/22/63 and the internal "top secret" investigations of the SS Commission books..one of which was " lost or stolen" in Dallas on the Texas trip in November 1963.
"I recalled in January,1964, the Secret Service recalled all commission books all over the United States..We were told they were to be redesigned ...to me, the redesign of the commission books was for one purpose and that purpose was to render the lost or stolen commission book a counterfeit if and when the persons bearing the lost or stolen commission book were found."
Mr.Bolden has written the author : "when Inspector Kelley of the Secret Service came to Chicago in 1961, I discussed with him the fact that during a conversation between SAIC Maurice Martineau and two other agents, who
were discussing Kennedy's push for racial balance and equal justice in America, Mr.Martineau blurted out angrily ' The bastard should be killed.'
This coming from an agent was dangerous.The prevailing attitude of the Causasian agents, the majority of whom were southen born, was that Kennedy was moving too fast on Civil Rights and in the Chicago office of the Secret Service. I heard the term "n lover" applied to President Kennedy by more than one or two agents." Bolden added that "all of (this )information ...was discussed with Inspector Kelley, John Hanley (SAIC), Harry Geghlein, and John (sic?) Burke (Assistant SAIC) in the Chicago office to no avail."
(Regarding Inspector Kelley: ASAIC Martineau told the HSCA on 2/1/78: "He did remember SA Tom Kelley calling from Dallas..11/23/63..regarding Oswald's rifle ordered from Klein's in Chicago. He said in those days the Secret Service in Chicago was not open on weekends so Kelly (sic) called him at home. He then called SA Tom Strong and asked him to check Klein's Sporting Goods for information on the rifle. Strong told him that the FBI had beaten him to Klein's and got the records."..(2/1/78 HSCA interview with Martineau, also 3-HSCA 339.)..
Abraham Bolden also told him about Mr.Martineau.."My mind flashed back to the day Kennedy was assassinated whereupon returning to the Sercret Service office, June Marie Terpinas ( secretary) approached me with tears in her eyes..She had gone into the office of SAIC Maurice G. Martineau upon hearing a radio flash concerning the shooting of the President. She told me that upon hearing that the President had been shot and relaying that report to Mr.Martineau, his reply was 'So what else is new?' I remembered rushing into Mr.Martineau's office and confronting him about his attitude and having been thrown out of his office with a warning to mind my own business."
Mr.Bolden told Bud Fensterwald that, after the assassination ,both Mr.Martineau and Inspector Kelley ( who came from Dallas) personally visited the north side landlady in Chicago with whom the fours suspects stayed prior to 11/2/63. Also," shortly after the assassination Martineau called all the agents into his office and showed them a memo from Washington to the effect that the Secret Service was to discuss no aspect of the assassination and investigation with anyone from any other federal agency now or any time in the future. Every agent, including Bolden, was made to initial this memo. Bolden, believes this took place on Wednesday ,
November 27th,(1963). When asked why: "FBI wanted to get (the) role of Presidential protector away from the Secret Service and thought this was (the) ideal opportunity...."AARC file.
Robert E."Bob" Lilley (White House Detail and Boston Office) --Exclusive Interview conducted on 9/27/92 , the author contacted Lilley, found that this Agent was gone from the White House after October 1963..Revealing that Agent Kellerman was his shift leader ( "He was a peach"),and that he "was quite close to Roy and June Kellerman", Lilley was unable to go further into any discussion about the events of 11/22/63 at the time...( For his part ,Lilley had garnered much respect from his former colleagues in correspondence with the author, notably Don Lawton and Walt Coughlin.
During the later interviews that were conducted on 9/21/93 as well as 6/7/96, the author mentioned the cancelled motorcade of 11/2/63...Lilley responded:
"I don't know if he (JFK) would cancel a motorcade, " adding further to the notion that the motorcade was cancelled by the Secret Service for JFK, due to mortal threats on his life. Mr.Lilley had seen JFK Oct.19/63..at the Univ. of Maine and during the Harvard-Columbia football game, a little more than a month before Dallas. Lilley had also been on JFK's 3/23/63 trip to Chicago, which was a model of security with sharp contrast to Dalls on 11/22/63.
( RIF # 154 -10003-10012 : Chicago ,IL trip 3/23/63 Secret Service survey report .Regarding the above-mentioned late Oct./63 JFK trip to Boston.
(**10**)..shows a photo..JFK strolling with Dave Powers and his Secret Service Detail..
Abraham Bolden also stated the following in his letter to Ohio Congressman Louis Stokes, former Chairman of the HSCA..." who is John Heard ? If the name John Heard (Hurt) has not been documented in the files of the Warren Commission then the files of the United States Congress are far from complete regarding the assassination of the President. Less than 24 hrs after the assassination of the President and while Lee Harvey Oswald was still in custody prior to his own assassination by Jack Ruby, all Secret Service offices across the nation were instructed to determine the whereabouts of a John Heard and any name phonetically sounding like Heard whose name was in the Secret Service files. At a time when the nation's attention was focused upon the name Lee Oswald ,the Secret Service was investigating John Heard all across the nation."...
( 1/26/92 Letter to Congressman Stokes provided to the author .This information was provided by Bolden ,regarding John Heard to the HSCA during the agents interview 1/9/78.)
Author Michael Benson wrote: "According to phone records, Lee Harvey Oswald attempted to make phone calls from the Dallas Police Station following his arrest that are not mentioned in the Warren Commission. The records indicate that LHO attempted to call (919) 834-7430 and (919) 833-1253..The numbers, both are listed to a John Hurt in Rawleigh ,North Carolina..at two separate addresses ( 415 New Bern Ave. and Old Wake Forrest Road)..The first to a John D.Hurt the second to a John W.Hurt...
A John D.Hurt from Rawleigh, according to Ira David Wood 111, served with U.S.Military Intelligence during WW 11..Wood contacted John David Hurt in Raleigh and discovered that he had been a U.S.Counterintelligence officer durign WW 11..Hurt said that he had worked as an insurance investigator ever since, employed by the state of North Carolina. He claimed to have no idea why Lee Harvey Oswald would have wanted to contact him from his jail cell.."..See......(**11**).
On 4/10/94 in a telephone coversation Abraham Bolden told Vince Palamara the the statement attributed to him by author Paris Flammonde in "The Kennedy Conspiracy"..that Oswald said "Ruby hired me"..and variations of the same...Is Not True...he never made such a statement..author's article in Feb-May 1994, "Investigator" research journal..
However Mr. Bolden did confirm statements made to Ian Calder in 1968..That his wife was harassed, a brick was thrown in his home, and that " a shot (was) fired in (to)the house." as well as his captivity in the "snake pit", a room for "incurable psychotics...(they) have killed four or five people ...multiple murderers, : Bolden also confirmed to the author that Richard Case Nagell was in a cell close to him while in prison. Mr.Bolden has since." filed for a pardon in Washington three times," to no avail. Finally, Mr.Bolden had this to say: "I think you're right on target...I heard of these things when I was an agent of the Secret Service....I really hope you can straighten it out...because there's a whole lot more than meets the public's eye." Indeed....
A Postcript by Vince Palamara:
In September 2004, Abraham Bolden wrote to the author regarding the information of his arrest , the trumped up charges against him and more:..
"(Agent Gary ) McLeod lied about the circumstances of my arrest .He was well aware of what was going on on May 18th while we were in Washington, DC..When I started to go to the White House to get some info. on the Commission, McLeod was right on my heels, so much so that I had to change my plans.He even walked with me to an all black cafe on "P" Street. It was very unusual for a white man to be seen in that part of town in a restaurant .When I went to a pay telephone to call my wife in Chicago. McLeod entered the booth next to mine and pretended to make a call.The only problem was that I listened for his coin deposit to drop and it never did.
Later during the night at about 2.00AM , I was awaken by a loud thump against the walls of my room..I put a drinking glass up to the wall and placed my ear against it. There was a lot of commotion inside of McLeod's room adjacent to mine.We shared a common wall.I heard the sound of low voices and movement of furniture but I could not make out what was being said. Cross had been a friend as well as a fellow agent. The secret service put a lot of pressure on him after I was arrested .He was under so much strain. He told a devastating lie against me at the trial when he testified that we talked about $50,000 in a conversation .That was the exact amount the government charged that I was soliciting as a bribe .That one lie from a Negro agent was one of the most damaging statements made during the trial. And, Vince, I tell you before God,and I am a very religious man ,that ,that conversation never took place.Agent Cross was the last person with the file that I had been charged with trying to sell. A part of that file ended up in the hands of Spagnoli .I think that who ever set me up arranged so that the file was stolen from Cross and used to implicate me .That way, if Cross did not go along with the program, he could be included as a defendant in the case.
The secret service is standing firm behind their claim of a lack of knowledge about an investigation of a Cuban assassination attempt around Nov.2,1963.
Not only was there and investigation of a Cuban faction here in Chicago but after that, in Miami and Palm Beach around November 18 the secret service used a decoy aircraft because of a major threat against the President there.