Bernice Moore

here is the coffin deep sixed information...http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg14235.html

Sat, 29 May 1999 02:26:08 -0700 -Caveat Lector-JFK's Casket Was Dropped in OceanBy KAREN GULLO.c The Associated PressWASHINGTON (AP) -- A bronze casket used to carry President Kennedy's bodyfrom Dallas to Washington is in a watery grave -- 9,000 feet down in theAtlantic Ocean, according to assassination documents.Materials to be released Tuesday at the National Archives will show that inearly 1965 the casket was dropped from a military plane into an area whereunstable and outdated weapons and ammunition are dumped, Kermit Hall, amember of the now-defunct Assassination Records Review Board, told TheAssociated Press.``The documents that will be released show it was dropped off theMaryland-Delaware border in 9,000 feet of water,'' Hall said Friday night.``There's actually a map in the documents that pinpoints the coordinateswhere it was dropped.''The revelation -- on the eve of what would have been President Kennedy's 82ndbirthday today -- that the casket was sunk resolves a lingering mystery aboutits whereabouts. But it also fuels speculation among assassinationresearchers that it was discarded to hide foul play.``The coffin is evidence just like the body is evidence,'' said David Lifton,who wrote a book about medical evidence in the Nov. 22, 1963, assassination.``You don't destroy evidence.''What happened to the bronze casket has been a lingering question over thepast three decades. Last year a document released by the archives showed thata General Services Administration truck picked up the coffin on March 19,1964.In its effort to ferret assassination-related documents and information fromvarious government agencies, the review panel asked the GSA where the casketwas. The agency said in the summer of 1998 that it didn't know.The documents from GSA and the Justice and Defense departments being releasednext week, however, describe the disposition in detail, Hall said.``Essentially what was going on was an effort to make sure the casket didn'tturn into a historic relic for the marketplace,'' he said.Kennedy was buried at Arlington National Cemetery in a mahogany coffin thathad been purchased in Washington to replace the bronze one, which was missinga handle and had been damaged.In September 1965, former Texas Rep. Earle Cabell wrote to then-AttorneyGeneral Nicholas Katzenbach recommending that the bronze casket be discardedso it could never become a relic.``It is an extremely handsome, expensive, all-bronze, silk-lined casket, andfortunately, and properly, was paid for by the General ServicesAdministration, and presently is in the possession of GSA,'' Cabell wrote.``This item has ... value for the morbidly curious. And I believe that I amcorrect in stating that this morbid curiosity is that which we all seek tostop.''Katzenbach said in an interview Friday that he doesn't recall details aboutthe disposition of the casket. If anyone had asked him if it should bedisposed of, ``I'd have said that's a good idea,'' he said.Lifton thinks there might have been a darker motive.In conducting his research, Lifton talked with witnesses who said Kennedy'sbody arrived at Bethesda Naval Hospital in a gray metal shipping casket, notthe bronze one obtained in Dallas. That the bronze casket was dumped in theocean -- after the Warren Commission issued its report in 1964 -- makes himwonder what clues it might have yielded to investigators.``If it had been an ongoing murder investigation, this would be obstructionof justice,'' Lifton said.Douglas Horne, who was the chief analyst for military records at thecongressionally created review board, speculated that the bronze casket wasdestroyed to end the two-coffin controversy.``I think the way to get rid of the problem is you get rid of the casket. Youthrow it out of an airplane,'' said Horne.DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER==========CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandicscreeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing! These are sordid mattersand 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outrightfrauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effectsspread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial andnazi's need not apply.Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.========================================================================Archives Available at:http://home.ease.lso...hives/CTRL.htmlhttp:/========================================================================To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:]

b

This is the highest rated article at ctka.net right now.

ANd Blaine has admitted in so many words that he wrote the book to counter VInce's work.

http://ctka.net/revi...tailreview.html

Stay tuned. VInce will be writing about this show soon.

Bill i did wonder if imo they were crocodile tears for what happened,or guilt, because they know what they did not do, and or because it is all coming out and being exposed..

no doubt some filled up and they ruddy well should , after Jackie recommended clint hill receive the award for his actions that day, which was a grand gesture, and very nice for clint hill, but in knowing what they all did not do that day, and had to know what went on, i have wondered how he could accept it, though he was the only agent that did try to help he was Jackies protector that day not jfk's, and correct he also was one of the drinking buddies the night before, though he must not have been a heavy drinker to have been able to react as he did, imo i found the tears now a bit much, seeing what information they have been sitting on all these years..b

William here isTom's written descriptions of the wounds he saw fwit..b

I don't know enough about the casket incidents to give an informed opinion, but I would like to offer up some points of discussion.

Is it possible that some of the time discrepancies may have originated from the times coming from the Dallas teams, who's watches may have still been on central time? Considering what was going on, I'm guessing that resetting their watches to eastern time may have been a low priority and something that some of the team may have forgotten to do.

Also, is it possible that some of the casket deliveries may have been empty caskets being brought in?

The paper from the funeral home mentions that the body was removed (for embalming) from a shipping casket. Is it possible that Kennedy's body may have been placed into a shipping casket temporarily after the autopsy and before the funeral home took charge of it?

JWK

quote''The paper from the funeral home mentions that the body was removed (for embalming) from a shipping casket. Is it possible that Kennedy's body may have been placed into a shipping casket temporarily after the autopsy and before the funeral home took charge of it? ''

JWK

Good question William, i wondered myself, but on checking i could not find where such was ever mentioned, amongst the information given by any of the witnesses. i would not have been surprised if they would have at parkland, because the body was still draining, but no, the statements there all refer to the coffin. if grey cells are working i believe he was interviewed, and may have been asked to decribe such, i am thinking of David LIFTON'S VIDEO INTERVIEWS...In Best Evidence.. if i recall correctly he asked each to describe such that they saw him in or placed in or taken out of, i think they are on the utube...thanks take care..b

this may help with the information; tom robinson; http://www.history-m...CA_Robinson.htm

b

I don't know enough about the casket incidents to give an informed opinion, but I would like to offer up some points of discussion.

Is it possible that some of the time discrepancies may have originated from the times coming from the Dallas teams, who's watches may have still been on central time? Considering what was going on, I'm guessing that resetting their watches to eastern time may have been a low priority and something that some of the team may have forgotten to do.

Also, is it possible that some of the casket deliveries may have been empty caskets being brought in?

The paper from the funeral home mentions that the body was removed (for embalming) from a shipping casket. Is it possible that Kennedy's body may have been placed into a shipping casket temporarily after the autopsy and before the funeral home took charge of it?

JWK

quote''The paper from the funeral home mentions that the body was removed (for embalming) from a shipping casket. Is it possible that Kennedy's body may have been placed into a shipping casket temporarily after the autopsy and before the funeral home took charge of it? ''

JWK

Good question William, i wondered myself, but on checking i could not find where such was ever mentioned, amongst the information given by any of the witnesses. i would not have been surprised if they would have at parkland, because the body was still draining, but no, the statements there all refer to the coffin. if grey cells are working i believe he was interviewed, and may have been asked to decribe such, i am thinking of David LIFTON'S VIDEO INTERVIEWS...In Best Evidence.. if i recall correctly he asked each to describe such that they saw him in or placed in or taken out of, i think they are on the utube...thanks take care..b

I probably shouldn't need to mention the following, but it's apparently less obvious than I would have imagined...

Why did any official investigation that was conducted by any of the following: the FBI, the Secret Service, or any other investigative body of the US Government, and/or why did the State of Texas, and/or the Dallas Police Department, or the County, or any other local authority--why did ANY OF THEM require a reconstruction film to begin with?

This is significant. Why did they need a "reconstruction film" at all?? IF THE ZAPRUDER FILM IS AUTHENTIC why do investigators need to "fabricate" a film that can never be as authentic as "the real deal" but will always be a fake. Why did they want one?

I do not believe that the alleged 'other film' was government sponsored, but rather a re-creation film for independent documentaries.

Bill

Bill quote '''Actually my so-called theory considers all the various descriptions given by those who claimed to have seen it ... '' Bill could you please post the comp.of that information for us,i do not have it and have never found it on the web, and i for one would like to know what all was said...the last i knew from Rich, was that he did not have them, the posted information from each, as the f had been hacked after and the info lost, so that is the why many have never had access to it...thanks,..b

You do raise many goood points. The pic is very interesting. I wonder why she would say it is her. But you cannot tell who it is.

The lady with the big black purse was identified at the time of the Warren Commission investigation. Her name is Clemenica Almeida and she was employed in the International Trade Mart. She was first identified by another witness whom the SS showed the photo to ... and then spoken to herself either by the FBI or SS.

If I recall correctly, she, or someone, identified two other women who were there with her as well. Weisberg covers this in his book, Oswald in New Orleans. Here is a link to a document Harold included in his Appendix, now on the Ferrell site. Last paragraph.

black purse lady document

Barb :-)

With Harrys knowledge; to post;

Judyth; A Heads up.... Permission was not asked for nor granted,from Harry, why not...??.

Hi BerniceAs JVB has spread my face with some confessedly incorrect statements on her recently discovered blog, I wish to verify the significance re; flowers...http://judythbaker.blogspot.com/

placed on Oswald's grave from 24 November 1965 and continued forseveral years. {It is not possible to access her blog}.The purpose of the flowers was simply to support specific four to eightline poems,intended to provoke authorities into cracking open the Archivedoor.At some point I read that the then president Johnson furiously ordered his people to find who the guilty party was.The Los Angeles bureau office, tried 'every method to discourage' thoseannual deliveries.Just wanted this known. Until later... Harry aka Hj

AKRON -- A former FBI agent who investigated plots to kill President

John F. Kennedy both before and after his assassination said the

government failed to heed warnings and later covered up evidence after

the shooting.

Don Adams, 87, said he's been told for decades to keep quiet about work

he did on the suspected mastermind of the assassination and

inconsistencies that point to someone other than Lee Harvey Oswald as

the gunman.

More:

http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=160007&catid=45

Thanks Robin, those are excellent images and a great help.

Looking at Muchmore and Nix, I have a feeling that by Z 312, the Queen Might have been even closer.

Again thanks for the images.

James

Your welcome James.

I seem to remember Don Roberdeau working on the same thing about a year ago,that was the reason why i had the DCA frames showing the ready kennedy alighnment already saved in my files.

thank you robin well done, and pass along the thanks to johnny. .also.b

They look bumper to bumper to me.

I realize that we can only see Hill here. There is an even better picture which shows the full compliment of Queen Mary-right on top of Kennedy's limousine as well. Where they should be! But 25 to 30 feet? I don't think so.

Peter,

You are right. Muchmore and Nix show them around a 5 foot difference in distance at Z 312......Maybe even less.

I have yet to measure the distance between them.

James

Right on top of the Limousine.

Five feet. How could no one get there in 5 seconds?

in the new book they also come out with the 25feet, saying that it would give them room to make any diversionary moves that may be necessary, also mentions that those same diversionary movements, pulling out of line, etc was to be made by the driver of the xp 100, if anything unwarranted took place in a motorcade, i believe on page 27 or thereabouts, words to that effect, which means neither driver did as they had been trained to do.. they certainly were not 25 feet behind... below they are on houston about to turn onto elm street...b

hi john; in case you have not seen nor heard them as yet here are the video's of the Garrison tapes...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vdsEN4rC5M<BR> also you may be interested in the book of the jfk film...i am sure it can be bought used on the book sites, if interested,,,great first post btw...b

http://news.yahoo.co..._coffin_auction

Apparently the coffin Lee Harvey Oswald was originally buried in, prior to his 1981 exhumation, will be going on the auction block.

i realize Mark, that in today's world anyone can sell about anything ,But imo this is disgusting..it shall be very interesting to find out when sold, whom buys it and what the plans are for it's use other than perhaps in some small museum somewhre on the planet, i notice dirt within, will that be packaged and sold as well, stay tuned it just may be... :blink: :blink: b

Thanks Bernice.

BTW, one point that is really interesting here is that the Blaine book looks like it was a direct response to VInce's work. In fact, in an interview on CSPAN, he just about admitted this.

They keep an eye out on us don't they?

Your welcome, naw, they never admit to such, but there they are peeping out from under the rocks..

Could it be that vince is not very popular with them, and if not why not..?? :)see below

photos and document ...b

THE KENNEDY CASKET CONSPIRACY BY HORNBERGER

http://www.lewrockwe...nberger184.html

THE TWO CASKETS; JOE BACKES; DOUG HORNE

http://www.jfklancer.com/Backes.html

THE KENNEDY CASKET CONSPIRACY BY HORNBERGER

http://www.lewrockwell.com/hornberger/hornberger184.html

http://www.ctka.net/reviews/kennedydetailreview.html

The CIA World Factbook If you need to find out information about any country that is recognized by the United Nations, whether for a school report, background about a place before traveling, or just simply because you are interested, ...

Right to the Source - http://tagitall.wordpress.com/

William McKenzie is one of three editorial columnists for the Dallas Morning News. On November 22nd he wrote:

The ghoulishness around November 22

Today, of course, is the 47th anniversary of JFK's death. Being in Dallas, this is naturally an unusual day.

So much has gone on since November 22, 1963, including the fact that we now have an ex-president living here.

But it's almost like time stands still around noon in Dallas on this day.

That's especially true just a few blocks from where I'm writing this. I'm not good at guessing crowds, but I

would bet there were hundreds of people gathered around the Grassy Knoll and Dealey Plaza as I drove by there

after lunch on the way back to the Morning News.

There's a ghoulish (sic) to this annual observation that's kind of unnerving. JFK was the first president I remember

and certainly the one who shaped many of my views about politics as I grew up. But the fascination with his death has

long gone into the world of cultishness.

I don't know whether that's because he was such a fascinating figure or because his assassination was surrounded by mystery.

Whatever the reason, it is kind of bizarre.

I hope the sideshow doesn't overshadow our memories of what that day was really like. I remember it as being a very dark moment,

filled with uncertainty. Not until 9/11 came along, did a day seem so dark. And like 9/11, it defined the next several years.

For that reason, I'd hate to see November 22 become a spectacle. It cheapens what was one darn serious day.

http://dallasmorning...houlishnes.html

Thanks michael; imo the only that cheapens the day, is the continual knocks each and every year that the dallas news continually make towards dealey plaza and it's visitors, plus their errors within their articles in the past, plus such as not using the word alleged often...same old, i expected more than just this one...perhaps they are slackening somewhat or had a slow day so anytime your doing nothing hit the plaza,, in november..perhaps there is even a notice on the bulletin board as a reminder....sheesh...

Missing JFK Jr.

Last Updated on Friday, 26 November 2010 13:59 Friday, 26 November 2010 13:57 Written by Anthony Coates Many years ago I took my daughter Courtney to the Mill Pond in Setauket. If you live in the Three Village area walks around the Mill Pond are a right of passage and an experience that bonds families. On that particular day I remember watching a team of ducks float over to us looking for food, we threw them some bread and after they ate the last crumbs we offered, the ducks tired of us and scattered purposefully and took to the sky flapping their wings furiously. Courtney asked "where are they going" and I said "who knows where"?

Thanksgiving Day marked the anniversary of the birth of John F. Kennedy, Jr. John would have been fifty. JFK Jr. and I started life with a bond, we were born about two weeks part. After the close election of 1960 and as the magic of the Kennedys began to unfold my Mother was always proud of the fact that John and I were born so close together, so were a lot of kids, but, for my family it had special meaning. You can't help, or at least I couldn't, be a kid born in 1960 and not have been moved by the Kennedy years. Life seemed more simple but people seemed to want to soar. With those first chilled breaths at the podium JFK inspired this nation to "do better" and for a time it seemed we were.

In my 20's my political involvement had me cross paths with the Kennedys, as I met and became friends with most of the family; very heady stuff for a kid born in '60. I traveled with Uncle Ted during the 1980 Presidential campaign, worked with Joe when ran for Congress, helped Bobby Jr. raise money for Riverkeeper and got to know most all of the kids including John. John was always different than the other Kennedy kids, quieter, more introspective. John was in many ways what I imagined his father to be. There was a smooth dignity to John, an elegance and grace.

To know John was to feel the warm tug and embrace of his friendship. John was an incredibly thoughtful man. As his Uncle Ted said "we all knew his name before he knew his own" yet John was never about his celebrity, let's face it the guy had everything going for him, great looks, charming, lots of money, a pretty damn good name, yet, if you walked into a room with John, he introduced himself to people as "John". As his Uncle Ted also said "John had every gift except length of life".

I remember distinctly that eerie weekend that John disappeared. It was hot and humid. I was in my home in Connecticut and the air conditioning had died. I was heading up to the Kennedy compound with a friend, not to attend Rory Kennedy's wedding, but, to attend a reuniting of staffers that would take place that weekend. As I stepped out of the shower, running late, I was immediately covered in sweat and the phone rang, and old friend told me John's plane had been lost. You have to remember this was all on the heels of Princess Diana's death and once again a silent thud hit. I sat glued to the television and the phone for days, finally, it became clear John, Carolyn and Lauren would not come back alive. A bitter reality set in…another Kennedy gone, another hope extinguished.

I think back to John often. I think about his hope and promise and I think what might have been. Not just politically but what kind of man he would have become. I think about John's Pied Piper quality and the decent humility he carried. To this day however when I hear a plane soar overhead I think of John and that fateful night and I think that John is out there, looking over us, flying, to who knows where.

http://www.riverhead...-missing-jfk-jr

SS drinking article.

What really happened at The Cellar club the night before the JFK assassination? It involved agents and Everclear http://ttexshexes.blogspot.com/2010/11/what-really-happened-at-cellar-club.html

kATHY I DID MAKE A SHORT REPLY IN THE OTHER THREAD YOU WERE ACTIVE IN...the interview went smoothly nothing new, except several times they stated Jeb will not be running for the Presidency, they loved jrs new book, barbara the Oatmeal Lady ditzed palin, saying she once sat beside her, thought she was beautiful, she loves Alaska and should stay there. the conversation was mainly about the family and their relationships, they touched on the death of their 4 year old daughter robin, of leukemia years ago, because some family mentions are in the book, so those subjects were brought up by king,the assassination, of course was not brought into the discussion, i admit i had not seen them in quite sometime..they looked well, and that is about all i can recall now...b

If you want to read about the depravity of Jeb Bush, read The Conspirators: Confessions of an Iran-Contra insider. It was written by Al Martin, who did not receive his pot of gold to stay quiet about Bush criminality in the Iran-Contra affair. This book paints Jeb Bush and Oliver North as a pair of murdering, drug dealing, money laudering thugs. No doubt it is true from their behavior in the 1980's. Based on Al Martin and Chip Tatum (google him!!) have to say, I think that the Bushes and Oliver North were behind the murder of Barry Seal in Feb. 1986. I think most folks here know who Barry Seal was- CIA asset, legendary drug smuggler and ace pilot.

http://www.amazon.co...90662672&sr=1-1

robert i hope the solid documentation is within the first said book you recommend, that they are murders and drug dealing laundering thugs. if not then they are simply accusations of only one, your opinion, and possibly the authors,two, and no i have no wish to read about jeb bush within another book, there is more than enough on the web,and in those books i have read, thanks. the barry seal book i read years ago, are you referring to the first edition or second, where some info was deleted..? i do wish you would take a breather, and consider and this is meant in a respectful way, deter from telling and preaching to other members, what they should and should not read and believe ..it is coming out within your posts as a very negative perspective on your part, sorry i try to keep in mind at all times that all are different within their beliefs and interests, no pounding of your opinions will change their minds, in fact the opposite happens..i hope you have a pleasant, relaxing thanksgiving..with your family, b

Hosty's fbi report, ding, something was niggling, when i read that phrase, ,,,.....your welcome perhaps the author can put them in contact and one never knows what may

come about...I hope you and yours all have a grand day, with a picturesque gobbler, such as below...and of course all in the STATES,,,HAPPY THANKSGIVING....take care..b

Bill Kelly ; perhaps it was you or Jim, but i believe a member had asked who within the FBI , Dallas i believe, had control of the jfk assassination records, well here is that information for whomever, from a new short article on the Tippitt marker being planned...b...

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Plans-advance-for-Officer-Tippit-memorial-110507339.html . ''Farris Rookstool knows well the spot where Tippit died on 10th Street, having been the FBI analyst who was the custodian of Kennedy assassination records for the bureau.''