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    Larry Florer

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    no pat but here is his statement if that may help any...b

    VOLUNTARY STATEMENT. Not Under Arrest. Form No. 86 SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT

    COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS

    Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22nd day of

    November A.D. 1963 personally appeared Larry Florer Address 3609 Potomac, Dallas, Texas Age 23 , Phone No. LA 1-7150 Deposes and says:

    This afternoon about 10 minutes after the parade passed Poydras and Main Streets, I went to a little Bar-B-Que place on Pacific. I do not know the

    name of this place and I went in and had a grilled cheese sandwich with a

    friend of mine, Richard Bartholomew, who works at the National Bank of Commerce. They had a radio going on in the cafe, two gentlemen that were seated at the table next to us had the radio on. And something came on the

    radio about the President being shot at, so I walked out with this other boy

    and he went on to the bank and I walked down to the railroad tracks at Pacific and Houston Street. I was walking parallel to some of the tracks and

    there were quite a few other people walking in the same direction I was going. I stopped on east side of Houston street across the street from the

    Texas School Book Depository. I stood there for a few minutes and then a lady

    that was standing next tome , I asked her where there was a telephone,

    and she said that the only pay phone that she knew of was in the County Records building. She said that there were a lot of phones on the third floor

    of this building that I was standing in front of. She said that she worked on

    the third floor and there was probably a phone up there that I could use. So

    I rode up the elevator with this lady and got off onthe third floor

    with this lady and we walked to the information desk and this lady went on

    back to her department, to her spot. So then I, there was a lady at the information desk and I asked her if I could borrow her telephone and she said

    that all the lines were buys, or something to that effect. So I stood there

    for a minute and a fellow walked up to me. He asked me what I want ed

    and he told me that I couldn't use the phone.

    So I walked back down to the

    elevator and rode it back down to the lobby. As soon as I got to the lobby I

    walked back outside and the fellow that I had talked to about using the phone

    was pointing out the window, pointing toward me and said that I was the man

    that was on the third floor. At this time two officer walked up to me

    and said for me to come with them. These officers brought me to the County

    Sheriff's Office. At no time did I see anyone leaving the building, the Texas

    School Book Depository, while I was across the street from it.

    /s/

    Larry Florer

    Subscribed and sworn to before me on this the 22nd day of Nov A. D. 1963

    /s/ C.

    C. Gentry

    Notary

    Public, Dallas County, Texas

    the attempted planting of the weapon on oswald

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    LHO hand gun

    The Smith & Wesson that was in Oswald’s possession when they arrested him in the Dallas theater came from Empire Wholesale of Montreal. Several researchers have wondered if Oswald had ordered it through the mail, or if the CIA had supplied it to him.

    Empire Wholesale of Montreal used to be Century International Arms, which the CIA used in supplying arms to the Nicaraguan Contras. Soldier of Fortune magazine even had a photo that shows the Contras with a case of weapons that says, "CIA (Century International Arms), Montreal, Canada."

    the attempted planting of the weapon on oswald

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    David in doing a search i found this posted on the alts some years ago, sorry at the time i neglected to copy the posters name, interesting i believe even if it adds nothing to your search, you have a very good idea there for a book, have you begun...... :rolleyes: .b..

    There has been much mystery surrounding the events from the time Lee

    Harvey Oswald was arrested on November 22, 1963, until his own

    assassination two days later. Was he mistreated? What were the police

    interrogations like? What did Oswald tell the police while in jail?

    Direct from the pages of the Warren Report itself is the report by

    Captain J. W. Fritz, who during the almost two days that Oswald was in

    his custody, interviewed and interrogated him more than any other law

    enforcement officer in Dallas. Hopefully you will read this and pick up

    on a couple of things I managed to notice as well.

    The report is without a doubt one of the worst I've ever read. It tends

    to show a total lack of professionalism on the part of the Dallas Police

    Department during this period of time. It's as if everyone in Dallas

    was a couple of cards short of a full deck. They were totally

    unprepared for the pressure that erupted during their investigation and

    as a result, performed poorly. (and that's being kind!)

    Anyway, I offer this transcript of Captain Fritz's report. Please do

    not blame me for the grammar or the spelling. I verified that what you

    see below and in the subsequent messages is EXACTLY what was published

    in the Warren Report!

    <<Beginning of Transcript>>

    REPORT OF CAPT. J. W. FRITZ, DALLAS POLICE

    DEPARTMENT

    INTERROGATION OF LEE HARVEY OSWALD

    We conducted the investigation at the Texas School Book Depository

    building on November 22, 1963, immediately after the President was shot

    and after we had found the location where Lee Harvey Oswald had done the

    shooting from and left three empty cartridge cases on the floor and the

    rifle had been found partially hidden under some boxes near the back

    stairway. These pieces of evidence were protected until the Crime Lab

    could get pictures and make a search for fingerprints. After Lt. Day,

    of the Crime Lab, had finished his work with the rifle, I picked it up

    and found that it had a cartridge in the chamber, which I ejected.

    About this time some officer came to me and told me that Mr. Roy S.

    Truly wanted to see me, as one of his men had left the building. I had

    talked to Mr. Truly previously, and at that time he thought everyone was

    accounted for who worked in the building. Mr. Truly then came with

    another officer and told me that a Lee Harvey Oswald had left the

    building. I asked if he had an address where this man lived, and he

    told me that he did, that it was in Irving at 2515 W. 5th Street.

    I then left the rest of the search of the building with Chief Lumpkin

    and other officers who were there and told Dets. R. M. Sims and E. L.

    Boyd to accompany me to the City Hall where we could make a quick check

    for police record and any other information of value, and we would then

    go to Irving, Texas, in an effort to apprehend this man. While I was in

    the building, I was told that Officer J. D. Tippit had been shot in Oak

    Cliff. Immediately after I reached my office, I asked the officers who

    had brought in a prisoner from the Tippit shooting who the man was who

    shot the officer. They told me his name was Lee Harvey Oswald, and I

    replied that that was our suspect in the President's killing. I

    instructed the officers to bring this man into the office after talking

    to the officers for a few minutes in the presence of Officers R. M. Sims

    and E. L. Boyd of the Homicide Bureau and possibly some Secret Service

    men. Just as I had started questioning this man I received a call from

    Gordon Shanklin, Agent in Charge of the FBI office here in Dallas, who

    asked me to let him talk to Jim Bookhout, one of his agents. He told

    Mr. Bookhout that he would like for James P. Hosty to sit in on this

    interview as he knew about these people and had interviewed them before.

    I invited Mr. Bookhout and Mr. Hosty in to help with the interview.

    After some questions about this man's full name I asked him if he worked

    for the Texas School Book Depository, and he told me he did. I asked

    him which floor he worked on, and he said usually on the second floor

    but sometimes his work took him to all the different floors. I asked

    him what part of the building he was in at the time the President was

    shot, and he said that he was having lunch about that time on the first

    floor. Mr. Truly had told me that one of the police officers had

    stopped this man immediately after the shooting somewhere near the back

    stairway, so I asked Oswald where he was when the police officer topped

    him. He said he was on the second floor drinking a coca cola when the

    officer came in. I asked him why he left the building, and he said

    there was so much excitement he didn't this there would be any more work

    done that day, and that as this company wasn't particular about their

    hours, that they did not punch a clock, and that he thought it would be

    just as well that he left for the rest of the afternoon. I asked him is

    he owned a rifle, and he said that he did not. He said that he had seen

    one at the building a few days ago, and that Mr. Truly and some

    employees looking at it. I asked him where he went to when he left

    work, and he told me that he had a room on 1026 North Beckley, that he

    went over there and changed his trousers and got his pistol and went to

    the picture show. I asked him why he carried his pistol, and he

    remarked, "You know how boys do when they have a gun, they just carry

    it."

    Mr. Hosty asked Oswald if he had been in Russia, He told him, "Yes, he

    had been in Russia three years." He asked him if he had written to the

    Russian Embassy, and he said he had. This man became very upset and

    arrogant with Agent Hosty when he questioned him and accused him of

    accosting his wife two different times. When Agent Hosty attempted to

    talk to this man, he would hit his fist on the desk. I asked Oswald

    what he meant by accosting his wife when he was talking to Mr. Hosty.

    He said Mr. Hosty mistreated his wife two different times when he talked

    with her, practically accosted her. Mr. Hosty also asked Oswald if he

    had been to Mexico City, which he denied. During the interview he told

    me that he had gone to school in New York and Fort Worth, Texas, that

    after going into the Marines, finished his high school education. I

    asked him if he won any medals for rifle shooting in the Marines. He

    said that he had the usual medals.

    I asked him what his political beliefs were, and he said he had none but

    that he belonged to the Fair Play For Cuba Committee and told me that

    they had headquarters in New York and that he had been Secretary for

    this organization in New Orleans when he lived there. He also said that

    he supports the Castro Revolution. One of the officers had told me that

    he had rented the room on Beckley under the name of O. H. Lee. I asked

    him why he did this. He said the landlady did it. She didn't

    understand his name correctly.

    Oswald asked if he was allowed an attorney and I told him he could have

    any attorney he liked, and that the telephone would be available to him

    up in the jail and he could call anyone he wished. I believe it was

    during this interview that he first expressed a desire to talk to Mr.

    Abt, an attorney in New York. Interviews on this day were interrupted

    by showups where witnesses identified Oswald positively as the man who

    killed Tippit, and the time I would have to talk with another witness or

    to some of the officers. One of these showups was held at 4:35 pm and

    the next one at 6:30 pm and at 7:55 pm At 7:05 pm I signed a complaint

    before Bill Alexander of the District Attorney's office, charging Oswald

    with the Tippit murder. At 7:10 pm Tippit (sic) was arraigned before

    Judge Johnston. During the second day interviews I asked Oswald about

    the card that he had in his purse showing that he belonged to the Fair

    Play For Cuba Committee, which he admitted was his. I asked him about

    another identification card in his pocket bearing the name of Alex

    Hidell. He said he picked up that name in New Orleans while working in

    the Fair Play FOr Cuba organization. He said he spoke Russian, that he

    corresponded with people in Russia, and that he received Newspapers from

    Russia.

    I showed the rifle to Marina Oswald, and she could not positively

    identify it, but that it looked like the rifle that her husband had and

    that he had been keeping it in the garage at Mrs. Paine's home in

    Irving. After this, I questioned Oswald further about the rifle, but he

    denied owning a rifle at all, and said that he did have a small rifle

    some years back. I asked him if he owned a rifle in Russia, and he

    said, "You know you can't buy a rifle in Russia, you can only buy

    shotguns." "I had a shotgun in Russia and hunted some while there."

    Marina Oswald had told me that she thought her husband might have

    brought the rifle from New Orleans, which he denied. He told me that he

    had some things stored in a garage at Mrs. Paine's home in Irving and

    that he had a few personal effects at his room on Beckley. I instructed

    the officers to make a thorough search of both of these places.

    After reviewing all of the evidence pertaining to the killing of

    President Kennedy before District Attorney Henry Wade and his assistant,

    Bill Alexander, and Jim Allen, former First District Attorney of Dallas

    County, I signed a complaint before the District Attorney charging

    Oswald with the murder of President Kennedy. This was at 11:26 pm He

    was arraigned before Judge David Johnston at 1:35 am, November 23, 1963.

    Oswald was placed in jail about 12:00 midnight and brought from the jail

    for arraignment, before Judge David Johnston at 1:36 am.

    On November 23 at 10:25 AM Oswald was brought from jail for an

    interview. Present at this time was FBI Agent Jim Bookhout, Forrest

    Sorrels, special agent in charge of Secret Service, United States

    Marshall Robert Nash, and Homicide officers. During this interview I

    talked to Oswald about his leaving the building, and he told me he left

    by bus and rode to a stop near home and walked on to his house. At the

    time of Oswald's arrest he had a bus transfer in his pocket. He

    admitted this was given to him by the bus driver when he rode the bus

    after leaving the building.

    One of the officers had told me that a cab driver, William Wayne Whaley,

    thought he had recognized Oswald's picture as the man who had gotten in

    his cab near the bus station and rode to Beckley Avenue. I asked Oswald

    if he had ridden a cab on that day, and he said, "Yes, I did ride in a

    cab. The bus I got on near where I work got into heavy traffic and was

    traveling too slow, and I got off and caught a cab." I asked him about

    his conversation with the cab driver, and he said he remembered that

    when he got in the cab a lady came up to who also wanted a cab, and he

    told Oswald to tell the lady to "take another cab".

    We found from the investigation the day before that when Oswald left

    home, he was carrying a long package. He usually went to see his wife

    of week ends, but this time he had gone on Thursday night. I asked him

    if he had told Buell Wesley Frazier why he had gone home a different

    night, and if he had told him anything about bringing back some curtain

    rods. He denied it.

    During this conversation he told me he reached his home by cab and

    changed his shirt and trousers before going to the show. He said his

    cab fare was 85 cents. When asked what he did with his clothing, he

    took off when he got home, he said he put them in the dirty clothes. In

    talking with him further about his location at the time the President

    was killed, he said he ate lunch with some of the colored boys who

    worked with him. One of them was called "Junior" and the other one was

    a little short man whose name he did not know. He said he had a cheese

    sandwich and some fruit and that was the only package he had brought

    with him to work and denied that he had brought a long package described

    by Mr. Frazier and his sister.

    I asked him why he lived in a room, while his wife lived in Irving. He

    said Mrs. Paine, the lady his wife lived with, was learning Russian,

    that is wife needed help with the young baby, and that it made a nice

    arrangement for the both of them. He said he didn't know Mr. Paine very

    well, but Mrs. Paine and his wife, he thought, were separated a great

    deal of the time. He said he owned no car, but that the Paines have two

    cars, and told that in the garage at the Paine's home he had some sea

    bags that had a lot of his personal belongings, that he had left them

    there after coming back from New Orleans in September.

    He said he had a brother, Robert, who lived in Fort Worth. We later

    found that this brother lived in Denton. He said the Paines were close

    friends of his.

    I asked him if he belonged to the Communist Party, but he said that he

    had never had a card, but repeated that he belonged to the Fair Play For

    Cuba organization, and he said that he belonged to the American Civil

    Liberties Union and paid $5.00 dues. I asked him again why he carried

    the pistol to the show. He refused to answer the questions about the

    pistol. He did tell me, however, that he bought it several months

    before in Fort Worth, Texas.

    I noted that in questioning him that he did answer very quickly, and I

    asked him if he had ever been questioned before, and he told me that he

    had. He was questioned one time for a long time by the FBI after he had

    returned from Russia. He said they used different methods, they tried

    the hard soft, and the buddy method, and said he was very familiar with

    interrogation. He reminded me that he did not have to answer any

    questions at all until he talked to his attorney, and I told him again

    that he could have an attorney any time he wished. He said he didn't

    have money to pay for a phone call to Mr. Abt. I told him to call

    "collect", if he liked, to use the jail phone or that he could have

    another attorney if he wished. He said he didn't want another attorney,

    he wanted to talk to this attorney first. I believe he made this call

    later as he thanked me later during one of our interviews for allowing

    him to use the telephone. I explained to him that all prisoners were

    allowed to use the telephone. I asked him why he wanted Mr. Abt,

    instead of some available attorney. He told me he didn't know Mr. Abt

    personally, but that he was familiar with a case where Mr. Abt defended

    some people for a violation of the Smith Act, and that if he didn't get

    Mr. Abt, that he felt sure the American Civil Liberties Union would

    furnish him a lawyer. He explained to me that this organization helped

    people who needed attorneys and weren't able to get them.

    While in New Orleans, he lived at 4907 Magazine Street and at one time

    worked for the William Riley Company near that address. When asked

    about previous arrests, he told me that he had had a little trouble

    while working with the Fair Play For Cuba Committee and had a fight with

    some anti-Castro people. He also told me of a debate on some radio

    station in New Orleans where he debated with some anti-Castro people.

    I asked him what he thought of President Kennedy and his family, and he

    said he didn't have any views on the President. He said, "I like the

    President's family very well. I have my own views about national

    policies." I asked him about a polygraph test. He told me he had

    refused a polygraph test with the FBI, and he certainly wouldn't take

    one at this time. Both Mr. Bookhout, of the FBI, and Mr. Kelley, and

    the Marshall asked Oswald some questions during this interview.

    Oswald was placed back in jail at 11:35 am. At 12:35 pm Oswald was

    brought to the office for another interview with Inspector Kelley and

    some of the other officers and myself. I talked to Oswald about the

    different places he had lived in Dallas in an effort to find where he

    was living when the picture was made of him holding a rifle which looked

    to be the same rifle we had recovered. This picture showed to be taken

    near a stairway with many identifying things in the back yard. He told

    me abOut one of the places he had lived.

    Mr. Paine had told me about where Oswald lived on Neely Street. Oswald

    was very evasive about this location. We found later that this was the

    place where the picture was made. I again asked him about his property

    and where his things might be kept, and he told me about the things at

    Mrs. Paine's residence and a few things at Beckley. He was placed back

    in jail at 1:10 pm.

    At 6:00 PM I instructed the officers to bring Oswald back into the

    office, and in the presence of Jim Bookhout, Homicide officers, and

    Inspector Kelley, of the Secret Service, I showed Oswald an enlarged

    picture of him holding a rifle and wearing a pistol. This picture had

    been enlarged by our Crime Lab from a picture found in the garage at

    Mrs. Paine's home. He said the picture was not him, that the face was

    his face, but that this picture had been made by someone superimposing

    his face, the other part of the picture was not him at all and that he

    had never seen the picture before. When I told him that the picture was

    recovered from Mrs. Paine's garage, he said the picture had never been

    in his possession, and I explained to him that it was an enlargement of

    the small picture obtained in the search. At that time I showed him the

    smaller picture. He denied ever seeing that picture and said he knew

    all about photography, that he had done a lot of work in photography

    himself, that the small picture was a reduced picture of the large

    picture, and had been made by some person unknown to him. He further

    stated that since he had been photographed her at the City Hall and that

    people had been taking his picture while being transferred from my

    office to the jail door that someone had been able to get a picture of

    his face and that with that, they had made this picture. He told me

    that he understood photography real well, and that in time, he would be

    able to show that it was not his picture, and that it had been mode by

    someone else. At this time he said that he did not want to answer any

    more questions and he was returned to the jail about 7:15 pm.

    At 9:30 on the morning of November 24, I asked that Oswald be brought to

    the office. At that time I showed him a map of the City of Dallas which

    had been recovered in the search of his room on North Beckley. This map

    had some markings on it, one of which was about where the President was

    shot. He said that the map had nothing to do with the President's

    shooting and again, as he had one in previous interviews, denied knowing

    anything of the shooting of the President, or of the shooting of Officer

    Tibbit. He said the map had been used to locate buildings where he had

    gone to talk to people about employment.

    During this interview Inspector Kelley asked Oswald about his religious

    views, and he replied that he didn't agree with all the philosophies on

    religion. He seemed evasive with Inspector Kelley about how he felt

    about religion, and I asked him if he believed in a Diety. He was

    evasive and didn't answer the question.

    Someone of the Federal Marshall's officers asked Oswald if he thought

    Cuba would be better off since the President was assassinated. To this

    he replied that he felt that since the President was killed that someone

    else would take his place, perhaps Vice-President Johnson, and that his

    views would probably be largely the same as those of President Kennedy.

    I again asked him about the gun and about the picture of him holding a

    similar rifle, and at that time he again positively denied having any

    knowledge of the picture or the rifle and denied that he had ever lived

    on Neely Street, and when I told him that friends who had visited him

    there said that he had lived there, he said that they were mistaken

    about visiting him there, because he had never lived there.

    During this interview, Oswald said he was a Marxist. He repeated two or

    three times, "I am a Marxist, but not a Leninist-Marxist. He told me

    that the station where he debated on in New Orleans was the one who

    carried Bill Stakey's program. He denied again knowing Alex Hidell in

    New Orleans, and again reiterated his belief in Fair Play for Cuba and

    what the committee stood for.

    After some questioning, Chief Jesse E. Curry came to the office and

    asked me if I was ready for the man to be transferred. I told him we

    were ready as soon as security was completed in the basement, where we

    were to place Oswald in a car to transfer him to County Jail. I had

    objected to the cameras obstructing the jail door, and the Chief

    explained to me that those have been moved, and the people moved back,

    and the cameramen were well back in the garage. I told the Chief then

    that we were ready to go. He told us to go ahead with the prisioner

    (sic), and that he and Chief Stevenson, who was with him, would meet us

    at the County Jail.

    Oswald's shirt, which he was wearing at the time of arrest, was removed

    and sent to the crime lab in Washington with all the other evidence for

    a comparison test. Oswald said he would like to have a shirt from his

    clothing that had been brought to the office to wear over the T-shirt

    that he was wearing at the time. We selected the best looking shirt

    from his things, but he said he would prefer a black Ivy League type

    shirt, indicating that it might be a little warmer. We made this change

    and asked him if he wouldn't like to wear a hat to more or less

    camouflage his looks in the car while being transferred as all the

    people who have been viewing him had seen him bearheaded. He didn't

    want to do this. Then Officer J. R. Leavelle handcuffed his left hand

    to Oswald's right hand, then we left the office for the transfer.

    Inasmuch as this report was made from rough notes and memory, it is

    entirely possible that one of these questions would be in a separate

    interview from the one indicated in this report. He was interviewed

    under the most adverse conditions in my office which is 9 feet 6 inches

    by 14 feet, and has only a front door, which forced us to move this

    prisoner through hundreds of people each time he was carried from my

    office to the jail door, some 30 feet, during each of the transfers.

    The crowd would attempt to jam around him, shouting questions and many

    containing slurs. This office is also surrounded by large glass

    windows, and there were many officers working next to those windows. I

    have no recorder in this office and was unable to record the interview.

    I was interrupted many times during the interviews to step from the

    office to talk to another witness or secure additional information from

    officers needed for the interrogation

    <<End of Transcript>>

    JOHN ARMSTRONG DOCUMENT COLLECTION

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    THANKS MIKE...TAKE CARE...B :o

    ARMSTRONG ''My main purpose for writing Harvey and Lee was first and foremost

    to make some of my documentation, interviews, photos, etc.

    available to fellow researchers. My hope was that researchers could

    use these documents and information to supplement and expand

    their own work and someday solve the JFK mystery.''

    Fetzer takes ballistics 101!

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    POSTED ONLY FOR MEMBERS WHO DO NOT HAVE ACCESS OF SUCH, NO COMMENT...

    SIBERT AND O'NEILL DRAIN, AND DAYS DOCUMENTS...CASES PHOTO BY MILES..TXS

    THE TSBD FLOOR BY CHRIS DAVIDSON I BELIEVE....THANKS

    B....

    By bent rim, are you talking about the casing with the bent lip, or neck?

    THIS BENT , BEND, DENT, NOT LIKE TOTHERS, WHATEVER...B

    JOHN ARMSTRONG DOCUMENT COLLECTION

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted · Edited by Bernice Moore

    John armstrong document collection baylor univ...

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    -----Original Message-----

    From: TOM BLACKWELL [mailto:decision@sbcglobal.net]

    Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 10:13 PM

    To: YOU and a few others on my JFK LIST

    Subject: The John Armstrong document collection - at Baylor University

    The John Armstrong document collection - at Baylor University

    Click here:

    http://contentdm.baylor.edu/cdm4/item_view...amp;CISOPTR=179

    (The .pdf of the index here is large - - over 72 Meg. It's the first

    of a number of documents.)

    Also:

    http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/sh...read.php?t=3823

    Captain Fritz and the spent cartridges

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    TONY FWIW AYLEA'S FIRST REPORT FROM CONNIE KRITZBERG'S BOOK, DEC.16/63..MAY BE OF HELP...FROM A POST A FEW YEARS BACK I MADE ON JFK RESEARCH...B

    Thomas Aylea WFAA Newsman/Reporter..

    Information from "Pictures of the Pain"..pages 520-521

    Tom Aylea used a Bell & Howell 70 DR 16 mm camera, loaded with black and white film , it was an old camera and had the history of loosing the fim loop when being operated. He also grabbed three extra cans of of film along with the emergency roll he always carried in his back pocket.All told he had 500 feet of unprocessed film available to him .He and Ray John had been assigned on the 21st to cover the President's arrival and activities in Ft Worth.

    While there around the Hotel Texas , his camera had broken down and he had been forced to borrow one, he returned it prior to his trip back to Dallas..The men took the WFAA news station wagon via Route 20 from Ft Worth to Dallas.with John driving.

    The afternoon of the 22nd was to be spent at the station processing the film for the evening news.They arrived back in Dallas about 12.30 pm.and traveling East on Commerce within the Dealey Plaza area, John was preparing to make a right onto Houston Street to the WFAA station on Young Street. The newsmen had both the car's radio as well as the police band radios turned on. Not cognizant of the fact that they were only several hundred feet south of Elm St. when the remnants of the presidential motorcade was passing by, they were halted at a traffic light some eight cars lengths from Houston..

    Alyea " We sat there listening to the parade coverage on the radio. I didn't even think to look across Dealey Plaza to the Depository.The first indication that anything had gone wrong came when we heard a voice on the police radio. It gave an unusual alert---" All units on Stemmons and Industrial, Code 3 Parkland"..Not associating the call with the President at first, the call was repeated, and within about 20 seconds the men heard WFAA commercial radio announcer, John Allen break in with the statement that shots had been fired at the President near Houston and Em.."We were still waiting for the traffic light to change: suddenly I realized where I was......

    I grabbed Ray's camera, told him to take the other film on to the station , and I took off across Dealey for the Houston and Elm intersection . I fimed while running and, assuming that the shots came from the ground, I looked around and began shooting".

    "I raced across Commerce and Main Sts. dodging traffic .On the far side of Elm I saw people rushing around, I had begun filming on the way as I crossed Main St. and as I was filming I was looking for police. They were not around. Some people were running towards the railroad tracks while others towards the monument area..I thought "There's nothing going on here"..and I went up to Ellm and Houston ,"Not knowing anything about the incident, and seeing little direct activity around the intersection, Alyea did notice several cops and one man looking up at the Depository Building, He fimed the entrance, and as six or seven plaincothesmen rushed in through the double entry door, Alyea followed unchallenged with Dallas Morning News reporter Ken Biffle directly behind him. As they got in, Alyea heard a fellow say, "Shut the door! Lock it ---no one in---no one out."..It would appear that Alyea arrived at the TSBD some time between 12.34 and 12.36pm....when there was still much confusion in front of the building and prior to the large scale uniformed police response to the police dispatch orders ..

    Tom's story follows.....

    Interview Dec. 16/63........

    By Tom Alyea ..."The Facts and the Photos"..

    From :Connie Kritzbergs..book

    ..

    "Secrets From the Sixth Floor Window"....p.39...46

    Editor's Note: Tom Aylea, the only newsman to join the initial police search team on the sixth-floor of the Texas School Book Depository on November 22,1963, denounces the disruption of the barricade fashioned of boxes as he first saw it.

    Aylea, former WFAA ( owned by the Dallas Morning News ) newsman/reporter , who recorded the panic on Dealey Plaza explains that the positioning of boxes was destoryed before the general press with still cameras were allowed in the building .He had completed his work in photographing everything of note and returned to his station long before the building was opened to the general press.

    He recorded three cartridges where they landed after they were ejected from the rifle, He recorded the rifle as it was found, before it was touched."...All such evidence was available from Tom through a prescription to his newsletter " JFK Facts" ..

    ""I was the first newsman into the building and the only newsman to

    accompany the search team as they went from floor to floor searching for

    the person who fired the shots. At this time, we did not know the

    president had been hit. I rushed in with a group of plain clothesmen and a

    few uniformed officers.

    I (followed ) the search team that was on its way to the rear elevator, to

    start the floor by floor search. We searched every floor, all the way to

    the roof. The gunman could have still been in the building. Finding

    nothing, they started back down. After approximately 18 minutes, they were

    joined by Captain Fritz, who had first gone to Parkland Hospital.

    The barricade on the sixth floor ran parallel to the windows, extending in

    an "L" shape that ended against the front wall between the first and

    second twin windows. The height of the stack of boxes was a minimum of 5

    ft. I looked over the barricade and saw three shell casings laying on the

    floor in front of the second window in the two window casement. They were

    scattered in an area that could be covered by a bushel basket. They were

    located about half way between the inside of the barricade. I set my lens

    focus at the estimated distance from the camera to the floor and held the

    camera over the top of the barricade and filmed them before anybody went

    into the enclosure. I could not position my eye to the camera's view

    finder to get the shot. After filming the casings with my wide angle lens,

    from a height of 5 ft., I asked Captain Fritz, who was standing at my

    side, if I could go behind the barricade and get a close-up shot of the

    casings. He told me that it would be better if I got my shots from outside

    the barricade. He then rounded the pile of boxes and entered the

    enclosure. This was the first time anybody walked between the barricade

    and the windows.

    Fritz then walked to the casings, picked them up and held them in his hand

    over the top of the boxes for me to get a close-up shot of the evidence. I

    filmed about eight seconds of a close-up shot of the shell casings in

    Captain Fritz's hand. I stopped filming, and thanked him. I do not recall

    if he placed them in his pocket or returned them back to the floor,

    because I was preoccupied with recording other views of the crime scene. I

    have been asked many times if I thought it was peculiar that the Captain of

    Homicide picked up evidence with his hands. Actually, that was the

    first thought that came to me when he did it, but I rationalized that he

    was the homicide expert and no prints could be taken from spent shell

    casings. Therefore, any photograph of shell casings taken after this, is

    staged and not correct. It is highly doubtful that the shell casings that

    appear in Dallas police photos of the crime scene are the same casings

    that were found originally. The originals by this time were probably in a

    plastic bag at police headquarters. Why? Probably this was a missing link

    in the report the police department had to send to the FBI and they had to

    stage it and the barricade box placement to complete their report and

    photo records.

    The position of the barricade, while difficult to follow for one who was

    not there, is important because of the difference in photographs seen

    today.

    There are four different box positions.

    There was one box in the barricade stack that was considerably higher

    than the others. This box is the one that can be seen in the photos taken

    from outside the window by Tom Dillard, because it was high enough to

    catch the sunlight and still be seen from the ground below. It is not to

    be confused with the second box set at an angle in the window sill, that

    was used as a brace for the assassin's rifle.

    A portion of this box can also be seen in these same photos taken by

    Tom Dillard. It shows up in the lower right hand corner of the picture.

    Two boxes were stacked on the floor, inside the window, to give arm

    support to the assassin. The top box was one of the two boxes from which

    the crime lab lifted palm prints.

    The fourth box of importance was on the floor behind the sniper

    location. Officers also lifted palm prints from this box. It is suspected

    that the sniper sat on this box while he waited for the motorcade to pass.

    The positioning of boxes 2, 3, and 4 were recorded by the police crime

    lab. They are the only boxes involved in the crime scene.

    The actual positioning of the barricade was never photographed by the

    police. Its actual positioning is only on my movie footage, which was

    taken before the police started dismantling the arrangement.

    We all looked over the barricade to see if the half open window with three

    boxes piled could form a shooting rest for a gunman. One box was actually on

    the window sill, tilted at an angle. There was a reason for this that I

    cover in my JFK Facts newsletter. The shooting location consists of two

    windows set together to form one single window. (The police photo showing

    the shell casings laying next to the brick wall was staged later by crime

    lab people who did not see the original positioning because they were not

    called upon the scene until after the rifle was found nearly an hour

    later.

    Only recently I saw a picture of Lt. Day with a news still cameraman on

    the 6th floor. Day was shown pointing to the location where the rifle was

    found. This was nearly 3:30 or after. It was my understanding that Day and

    Studebaker had taken the prints, rifle and homemade sack back to police

    headquarters. I personally would like to know what they were doing back at

    the scene unless it was to reconstruct shots they had failed to take

    during the primary investigation. But this evidence had been destroyed and

    they were forced to create their own version. The photo I have seen of the

    barricade wasn't even close. I have also seen recently a police photo of

    the assassin's lair taken from a high angle which indicates that it was

    shot before the barricade box arrangement was destroyed, but it did not

    show the barricade itself. This has no bearing on the case other than the

    public has never seen the original placement. I show it in my JFK Facts

    newsletter.

    Police officers who claim they were on the 6th floor when the assassin's

    window was found have reported that they saw chicken bones at or near the

    site. One officer reported that he saw chicken bones on the floor near the

    location. Another said he saw chicken bones on the barricade boxes, while

    another reported that he saw chicken bones on the box which was laying

    across the window sill. Some of these officers have given testimony as to

    the location of the shell casings. Their testimony differs and none of it

    is true. I have no idea why they are clinging to these statements. They

    must have a reason. Perhaps it is because they put it in a report and they

    must stick to it.

    One officer stated that he found the assassin's location at the 6th floor

    window. He went on to say that as he and his fellow officers were leaving

    the building, he passed Captain Fritz coming in. He said he stopped

    briefly to tell Captain Fritz that he had found the assassin's lair at the 6th

    floor window. This seems highly unlikely because Captain Fritz joined

    us on the 5th floor and aided in the search. The chances are great that

    this, or these officers heard the report, that stemmed from WFAA-TV's

    incorrect announcement that the chicken bones were found on the 6th floor.

    This officer or officers perhaps used this information to formulate their

    presence at the scene. There were no chicken bones found on the 6th floor.

    We covered every inch of it and I filmed everything that could possibly be

    suspected as evidence. There definitely were no chicken bones, were no

    chicken bones on or near the barricade or boxes at the window. I shot

    close-up shots of the entire area. The most outstanding puzzle as to why

    these officers are sticking to this story is the fact they claim to have

    found the sniper's location, then left the building, as they said to join

    the investigators at the Tippit shooting location. I have never seen a

    report that indicates they attempted to use any telephone in the building

    in an attempt to notify other investigators. They just left the scene to

    check another assignment, and by chance ran into Capt. Fritz coming in the

    front door. They claim to have placed a detective at the location but they

    did not relay their finding to any other officer before they left the

    building. I presume that the alleged detective they allegedly left at the

    scene was instructed to stand there until someone else stumbled upon the

    scene, or they found time to report it after investigating the Tippit

    scene. Sorry, it doesn't wash.

    I do however know that Officer Mooney was present when the rifle was found

    because I took film of him at the scene. He is shown talking to another

    detective, but this was nearly an hour after the sniper's location was

    found at the window. I have no idea when he arrived. We ended up with more

    men than when we started. As they joined us during the search the

    latecomers would bring us the latest news of the president's condition.

    When Captain Fritz arrived 18 minutes after we started, he brought news

    that both Governor Connally and the president had been hit but by the time

    he left, the seriousness of their wounds was unknown. Fritz left the

    hospital almost immediately when he was notified that a search was

    underway in the Texas School Book Depository for the sniper. We in the

    search team had no phones, radios or TV sets. As I recall, we learned that

    the president was dead about the time we found the rifle. I don't know who

    brought us this word. Several officers arrived while we were waiting for

    Lt. Day. One of them was Roger Craig, who is responsible for giving much

    misinformation to the press. None of us were prepared to hear that the

    president's wound was a fatal one. We thought perhaps it was a minor thing

    or possibly a flesh wound. It was a stunning shock, and our attitude

    ( towards) the rifle had suddenly changed. We stared at the small portion

    of the butt as it lay under the overhang boxes while we waited for Lt. Day

    to arrive and recover the weapon that killed our president. I give an

    account of this in JFK Facts.

    We finished combing the 6th floor, looking for the assassin or any other

    evidence. Finding nothing more at this time Captain Fritz ordered all of

    us to the elevator and we started searching the 7th floor and from there

    we went to the roof.

    Nothing in the way of evidence was found so we retraced our search back

    down, floor by floor. Shortly after we arrived back on the 6th floor,

    Deputy Eugene Boone located the assassin's rifle almost completely hidden

    by some overhanging boxes near the stairwell. I filmed it as it was found.

    In my shot, the figure of Captain Fritz is standing within the enclosure

    next to the rifle. He knew then that the possibility of a fire fight with

    the sniper had greatly diminished. He dispatched one of his men to go down

    and call for the crime lab. About fifteen minutes later, Lt. Day and

    Studebaker arrived. Still pictures were taken of the positioning of the

    rifle, then Lt. Day slid it out from its hiding place and held it up for

    all of us to see. The world has seen my shot of this many times. Lt. Day

    immediately turned toward the window behind him and started dusting the

    weapon for fingerprints. Day was still within the enclosure formed by the

    surrounding boxes. I filmed him lifting prints from the rifle. He lifted

    them off with scotch tape and placed them on little white cards. When he

    had finished, he handed the rifle to Captain Fritz. Fritz pulled the bolt

    back and a live round ejected and landed on the boxes below. Fritz put the

    cartridge in his pocket. I did not see Fritz pick up anything other than

    the live round.

    I filmed Captain Fritz talking with associates in this dismantled area

    ( the "sniper's nest") along with Studebaker, who was dusting the Dr.

    Pepper bottle which had been brought up to him from the 5th floor. This is

    all recorded on my film. I never learned if prints were lifted from the

    pop bottle. I'm not sure if anybody ever asked.

    I took the film from my camera, placed it back into its metal can, wrapped

    the tape around it, and tossed it to our News Editor, A. J. L'Hoste, who

    was waiting outside with the other newsmen who were not allowed in the

    building. A. J. raced it to the television station which was about three

    blocks away. About fifteen minutes later the world saw the murder weapon,

    where it was found and pictures of the crime lab people dusting it for

    fingerprints, and the shell casings that once housed those bullets. They

    also saw how the assassin prepared for his ambush and the view he had of

    the killing zone.....""

    End of quote..

    "Pictures of the Pain "..page 537

    Back at the station Aylea's fim was being processed as quickly as it arrived most of it being broadcast unedited..Sometime after 3.15 pm the first Alyea film was telecast. ..The one minute 45 second sequence was not the first Tom had taken as it shows the rifle already discovered , as well as 15 other short sequences including the snipers nest scene.A short time later a 25 second additional segment was shown looking from the inside first floor entrance through the closed door at the two cops on the steps is also projected. All told WFAA broadcast Alyea's films some 5 separate occasions. Not including replays some 34 scenes were show, including views of the police on the street below and the spectators corralled below on the opposite side of Elm, near the reflecting pool area.The total none repeated film totalled 4 minutes..12 seconds. A David Wolper documentary film included five other short clips by Alyea not seen on the WFAA telecasts of 1963. These clips show an additional 14 seconds of film.A still later televised series ,

    "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" included additional film.Among these three sources are a total of 54 separate fim clips of approximately 5 minutes 26 1/2 seconds duration , all identifiable to Alyea..The clips include several other views of the southeats corner of the 6th floor and views of the rifle prior to its being picked up by Lt. Day.Alyea shot all of his fim ammounting to some 500 feet.But at the station this precious film was not looked upon as of any historical documentation..or even as possible investigative use, It was part of a news package and would be edited, cut up, and shown only with only the concern of telling a breaking news story.....

    Alyea increduously remembers, "The news director had a bunch of it burned and I said, "Bob, don't burn anything ---this is history, we don't know what's going on there..."..He said if we can't use it on the news get it out of here.".So much film was piling up in the cramped editing room floor that the next day much of it was destroyed .Alyea recalls that in between assignments he would come in to have his new fim processed , and while there would pick up some of his discarded film, spin it on a reel and take it. He retained some of these clips, but bemoans the lose of other potentially historic film , "I could have shot Oswald coming out ---could have shown someone else coming out."

    In Apri 1964...WFAA furnished to the FBI, upon it's request ,a dub of all the segments which survived and could be indentified as Alyea's..

    Tom Ayea would film one final dramatic, though post shootong event..Scheduled on Sunday to cover a news conference by Mrs John Connally at Parkland Hospital, the gathered press learned that Oswald had been shot by a phone call to the press room. Many took off for Baylor or Methodist Hospitals which were closer to the city jail,.. Aylea on a hunch and others ran to Parkand's emergency entrance. His camera is running as a police cruiser rounds the circular drive followed by an ambulance which stops and, as a cop motions with his hand, the vehice backs under the canopy..Oswald's strecher is removed from the back amid much pandemonium .Attempting to follow the gurnet Alyea recalls, ......" the officers forced a human wall across the hallway and refused to let us pass."

    In the crowded corridor Alyea could not see in front of him ..Another cameraman , Bob Welch , had a light attached to his camera ,and Alyea told him to shine the light on the cops' heads. As he did this, Alyea using the man's light, held his camera as high as possible and pushed his film button .."I coudn't see what I was shooting:..His flim includes Oswald being wheeled down the hall "I had filmed that, as well as the Doctors rushing from the emergency room to take Oswald from the police, and I hadn't even been sure that I'd gotten anything"..It was a real stroke of luck."..

    Tom Alyea also covered the trial of Jack Ruby for WFAA and also filmed a day in the life of Marina Oswald.. In 1966 he moved to Lafette, Louisiana, beginning his own news service operation and publishing a bulletin relating to the oil and gas industry. Following the 1983 oil price depression, Alyea moved to Tulsa, Oklahoma ..An avid cartoonist with a flair for teaching, known as "Toma" to his audience, he produced several successful children's tapes on learning to make cartoons. It has only been in recent years he has become aware of all the misinformation concerning the assassination and now believes it important to help correct some of the factual errors ..

    Alyea Clip...

    Index of Photographers

    Takes its sweet time loading...

    http://jfkmurderphotos.bravehost.com/photos.html

    B..

    Captain Fritz and the spent cartridges

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted · Edited by Bernice Moore

    MOONEYS STATEMENT....COUNTY OF DALLAS

    SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT

    SUPPLEMENTARY INVESTIGATION REPORT

    ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY

    Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney, Dallas County Sheriff's Department.

    Date: November 23 1963

    I was standing in front of the Sheriff's office at 505 Main Street, Dallas, When President Kennedy and the motorcade passed by. Within a few seconds after he had passed me and the motorcade had turned the corner I heard a shot and I immediately started running towards the front of the motorcade and within seconds heard a second and a third shot. I started running across Houston Street and down across the lawn to the triple underpass and up the terrace to the railroad yards. I searched along with many other officers, this area, when Sheriff Bill Decker came up and told me and the Officers Sam Webster and Billy Joe Victory to surround the Texas School Book Depository building. As we approached the two big steel wire gates to the building dockat the back of the building on Elm Street side, we saw saw that the loading dock had locks on it and I then pulled the steel gates closed and requested of a citizen standing there to see that no-one came out or went in until I could get a uniformed officer there, which he did. Officers Webster, Victory, and myself took to the building. Officers Webster and Victory took the stairs and I told them I would take the freight elevator. At the time I got on the elevator two women who work in the building got on the elevator, saying they wanted to go to their offive. As the elevator started up, we went up one floor and the power to the elevator was cut off. I got out on the floor with theese women and looked around in their office and I then took to the stairs and went to the 6th floor, and Officers Webster and Victory went up to the 7th floor. I was the only person on the 6th floor when I searched it and was reasonably sure that there was no one else on this floor as I searched it and then criss-crossed it, seeing only stacks of cartons of books. I was at that time also checking for open windows and fire escapes. I found where someone had been using a skill saw in laying some flooring in one corner of this floor and I then went to the 7th floor and was assisting in searching it out and crawled into the attic opening and decided it was too dark and came down to order flash lights. I then went on back to the 6th floor and went direct to the far corner and then discovered a cubby hole which had been constructed out of cartons which protected it from sight and found where someone had been in an area of perhaps 2 feet surrounded by

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    cardboard cartons of books. Inside this cubby hole affair was three more boxes so arranged as to provide what appeared to be a rest for a rifle. On one of these cartons was a half-eaten piece of chicken. The minute that I saw the expended shells on the floor, I hung my head out of the half opened window and signaled to Sheriff Bill Decker and Captain Will Fritz who were outside the building and advised them to send up the Crime Lab Officers at once that I had located the area from which the shots had been fired. At this time, Officers Webstr, Victory, and McCurley came over to this spot and we guarded this spot until Crime Lab Officers got upstairs within a matter of a few minutes. We then turned this area over to Captain Fritz and his officers for processing.

    At this time I continued to search this 6th floor along with many other officers and within a few minutes, I heard Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone holler out that he had found the rifle near the staircase between some rows of cartons.

    We continued to search the building for a suspect.

    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/wit.htm

    BTW THANKS MARTY FOR YOUR INFO POSTED, GOOD TO SEE YOU HERE...TAKE CARE B..PS NO AFFIDAVIT FOUND AT THE MARY FARRELL SITE....

    GEORGETOWN NEW COLLECTIONS

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    In case you have read every document in College Park, you can now make your way over to Georgetown, and dig up some more.

    1. Richard Billings Collection

    2. Richard E. Sprague Collection

    3. R.B. Cutler Collection

    As always, recommend confirming your appointment with them, since it has been known to be vacation time for the supervisor when and if you arrive unannounced. It is always better to have the curator walk you through the procedures.

    Frog

    THE TWYMAN/FETZER SHELL GAME

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted · Edited by Bernice Moore

    Sorry Bernice, but I can't explain it. No posts are invisible and no-one has deleted any.
    i made a post in this thread composed of docs and photos with no comment, i wonder why it is not here now..??????? could i please have a reply from a mod or such...thankyou...b

    i am asking again thankyou, where has my post gone...i will repost with no comments as i did about 5 pm here, in canada 11pm ish on this f, in england, the docs and photos that i previously had, lets see if they disappear also.......b

    thanks evan but i just did the threads and no they are not there only the reposts and photos from the judyth thread in the new rifle scope thread i started, the docs i had posted in this thread are not here nor in any other, i checked the controls also...... sorry for the confusion it does go with the subject...b

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