Ray Mitcham

Joe, unfortunately, according to the Lone nutter brigade, you can't trust anything that the doctors at Parkland said, as they were even unable to place a gunshot wound in the right place. 

1 hour ago, Steve Thomas said:

Is there a record of anyone ever explaining to Jackie Kennedy that state law required the autopsy to be performed in Texas, and that she would be breaking the law to have JFK's body taken out of state?

 

I have no problem believing that LBJ would have no concerns about this trifling little legal problem, but I've always wondered how Jackie overcame that in her own mind. 

 

I don't care how you want to phrase loyalty and/or love for JFK by the Secret Service, or LBJ's fears of national security; legally the Secret Service's oversight of JFK, and LBJ's paranoia, ended when JFK died. 

Who convinced Jackie it was okay and how?

 

Steve Thomas

 

 

I agree with your comments, Steve. After JFK was murdered, Jackie became the ex President's wife, with no special privileges. The excuse that she had to leave with Johnson is a non-sequitor. It was just an excuse to get the body out of the grasp of the Texas authorities. IMO. The only job for the SS men, at that time, was to get the new President out of Dallas, pronto. Nothing else.

2 hours ago, Ron Ecker said:

Ah yes, the autopsy photos and X-rays. Let's see, they assassinated the president, they conducted a sham military-controlled autopsy as part of the cover-up, but they were careful not to tamper with any of the autopsy materials, such as altering or faking a photo or two, because THAT WOULD BE WRONG.

 

 

 

Steve, have a listen to Wesley Clark, about Iraq.

1 minute ago, Michael Clark said:

I am convinced that Craig wished that he was in Antarctica with Fletcher Prouty that week. I don't see him falsely interjecting himself in anything at all.

Cheers,

Michael

Michael, this was posted several years ago on this forum, by Malcolm Ward

Just now, W. Tracy Parnell said:

But if two men are not twins, how do you put their photos together and make a new ID? Or are you saying you are not defending H&L?

Dear God, I refuse to answer your stupid questions any more.

13 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

As far as H&L they are identical when the theory requires it and non-identical when it better fits the theory. As far as the photo you posted, I stand by my comment that nobody would think these were identical twins or twins of any kind. Things like the ears would give it away. That is just something for newspapers and websites to use to fill up space.

Tracy, are you incapable of reading what people post? Nobody said that the two guys, whose photo I posted, were twins. I said they were dopplegangers, which means they were "lookalikes".

You're the one who is insisting that the two Oswalds must be twins- nobody else. Capisce?

1 hour ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

The point is they are saying that there were two boys who the CIA somehow found. These two boys at one point in time didn't look that much alike. One was taller and husky. One was shorter and looked like he had been in a concentration camp. Yet they selected these boys for a project whose ultimate goal wasn't even known. And somehow the CIA knew that these boys would grow up to look enough alike to put their photos together and make a new ID that would fool everybody. How likely does that seem?

Whether it's likely or not, is immaterial. I posted the photo of the two guys to show  that what George said was correct. You are now changing your story to say that they are not identical. Nobody ever said they were. 

Just because it doesn't agree with your ideas, Tracy,  tough.

2 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Why don't you do us all a favor Ray. Go get a photo of your twin and then take a photo of yourself. Then see if you can cut the photos in half and put them together to make a new photo that will fool everybody here.

Don't you know the difference between twin and a doppelgänger, Tracy? Why don't you do us a favour, and stop these stupid comments?

My memory let me down about how the above two guys met. I have retraced my steps and this is the story I remember.

http://www.npr.org/2015/04/05/397601823/man-retires-moves-discovers-his-doppelganger

Re- Let's get stick  to H& L, just ignore the doppleganger effect.

I'd rather you not do what you normally do, and try to guess what I and others are going to do. It stinks of arrogance.

Typical answer from you, Tracy. The only thing they changed was the clothing they were wearing. (This, at the request of the newspaper, which  took the photograph.)

Their  hair, beards and specs were their normal accoutrements. 

The only trickery is in your own mind. Because it goes against your argument that there are doppelgängers for most people in this world, (I myself have a doppleganger, (poor man) who lives about seven miles from me, I have never met him but my friends have often asked what I was doing in his village.)

8 hours ago, George Sawtelle said:

W. Tracy

Putting aside Armstrong´s work on the two Oswalds, let me ask you this:

Do you believe that there could be two men, not related by blood, that look so much alike that they could pass for twins, and that happen to live in the same country?

Of course the answer is yes.

Furthermore, is it possible that there could have been a man who resembled Oswald to the point that he could pass for Oswald´s twin, a man unknown to Oswald?

Of course the answer is yes.

Knowing the answer to both questions, the next logical step is looking at the evidence that supports two Oswalds.

As you look for evidence of two Oswalds, forget about Armstrong´s work.

 

George, this a photo of two guys who lived in the same town in the U.K. who had no relationship with each other andwho accidentally bumped into each other  at a supermarket.

3 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

So Swike likes Angleton. That means anything he says is false? How about if he says water is wet?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_water

Holland was the Washington  representative on the Middle East friends of America Committee. 

Quote"Historians R.M. Miller, Hugh Wilford, and others have argued that from its early years, AFME was a part of an Arabist propaganda effort within the U.S. "secretly funded and to some extent managed" by the C.I.A., with further funding from the oil consortium, ARAMCO.

He was also a writer for the Voice of America.

So a completely independent voice, it seems.

4 hours ago, Karl Kinaski said:

Fact is that Dennis David and Custer saw a coffin arriving at the Bethesda Morgue before they saw the Kennedy party arriving at the Bethesda main gate. They later assumed that JFKs body was in that coffin ... that coffin (shipping casket) could have been empty. That coffin could have been containing the remains of any "John Doe" ... the saw a coffin ... CXuster and Davies never saw Kennedys corps prior to the arrival of the Kennedy party ... 

 

KK

 

 

 

"CXuster and Davies never saw Kennedys corps [sic] prior to the arrival of the Kennedy party ... "

How could Custer have taken x rays of the President's autopsy before the arrival of the entourage, KK? 

34 minutes ago, Karl Kinaski said:

Fact is that Dennis David and Custer saw a coffin arriving at the Bethesda Morgue before they saw the Kennedy party arriving at the Bethesda main gate. They later assumed that JFKs body was in that coffin ... that coffin (shipping casket) could have been empty. That coffin could have been containing the remains of any "John Doe" ... the saw a coffin ... CXuster and Davies never saw Kennedys corps prior to the arrival of the Kennedy party ... 

 

KK

 

 

 

I don't think a detail of marines would have been ordered to unload an empty casket, and there is no record a "John Doe" being taken into the morgue at any time,  by the Marines.

Dennis David timeline.

5 p.m. With Dr Boswell when they heard JFK was to be taken to Bethesda.

5. 5.30p.m. Called to Leadbetter's (Officer of the Day) office (NNMC), where 3 or 4 SS men were in attendance.

5. 6.30p.m. “Telephone call. “Your visitor is on his way. You will need some people to offload” Collected his own duty sailors together, plus others from dental school.and at about

   6.40p.m. assembled them outside the morgue at the loading dock.

    

   6.45p.m.. A black hearse drove up to the morgue. He said the passengers were wearing OR (Operating room) smock. Four or five blue suits (Fed Agents) exited the back of the hearse, and watched and supervised whilst the 7or 8 sailors offloaded the casket which was in the hearse. He said it was a simple grey shipping casket. His sailors took the casket into the anteroom directly adjacent to the morgue. He then dismissed his men and went back upstairs to an admin office on the second floor.

    

   7.15p.m. approx he saw motorcade including a grey naval ambulance drive to front of Bethesda Tower. He observed Jackie K R.McNamara et al enter the Bethesda lobby and go directly to the 17^th floor suite.

    

   2/2.30a.m. Saw several corpsmen in snack bar and much discussion about two caskets being brought into Bethesda., and even rumors of a brain being brought into the hospital.

    

   Next day, asked Boswell which casket the President had been in and Boswell said “You ought to know: you were there.” [Implication, to him, was JFK was in grey shipping

   casket.]

1 hour ago, Don Jeffries said:

You are probably referring to Weitzman's niece. He had no children. 

Could be, Don. As well as getting the make and caliber wrong, another mistake Weitzman made was to identify the scope as a 2.5 Weaver scope which subsequently became one of Japanese manufacture, which was 4 power. This is what was printed in bold white on the top of the scope on the MC.

                                          4 x 18 coated 

Ordinance Optics Inc

Hollywood, California

010 Japan. OSC

Some mistakes to make for a man who knew about rifles.

I remember reading a couple of years ago, that Weitzman's daughter said that her dad privately maintained till his death that it was a Mauser he found in the TSDB. Unfortunately I don't remember where I read it. Anybody else ever see the comment?

I understand from another forum that sadly Bernice Moore passed away 13th March. Sad news. She was a great researcher and person.

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

What a great document that would be, if it were real. Apparently it's been debunked:

http://dperry1943.com/bledsoe.html

 

That "debunking" was by Dave Perry. Sandy. Have a look at this critique of his report.  https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/deeper-into-dave-perry

12 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

As a CTer I resent being placed in the same category as Ray.

 

At least we agree on something,Paul. I don't guess and present my guesses as facts. 

Paul Trejo

"Here is how I believe LHO's rifle came to be in Ruth Paine's garage.

1.  LHO held his rifle back when he loaded up Ruth Paine's station wagon in New Orleans on September 23, 1963, and Ruth and Marina and all their kids drove back to Irving, Texas.

2. LHO took his rifle with him to Mexico City, where he traveled in an automobile with two accomplices: "Leopoldo" and "Angelo."  It was in the trunk.

3. LHO took rifle with him to Dallas from Mexico City after he failed miserably to get his instant visa into Cuba.  "Leopoldo"and "Angelo" drove LHO to Dallas.

4.  LHO kept it in a duffel bag when he roomed in Dallas in various places.

5.  Without Ruth Paine's knowledge, LHO brought it to her garage one day in October, and placed it among the wide variety of junk that Ruth had in her garage from Marina Oswald's move from New Orleans.

6. Viola{sic]

7.  As a loyal member of Guy Banister's team to Kill Fidel Castro, including "Leopoldo" and "Angelo" (who were members of Interpen), LHO was clueless  when he was instructed to bring his rifle to the TSBD on 11/22/1964, that he was soon to become their Patsy.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

There fixed your post in red, Paul.

In the absence of any confirmations from Paul Trejo,  of the following

"Vicki and Sandra hung around the fourth floor gabbing with the girls and looking out of the many windows at the Grassy Knoll for 5-8 minutes, as Sandra seems to recall (not Vickie)."

(Lovelady and Shelley) then returned "to the TSBD[sic] side entrance where they saw Vickie and Sandra. "

I believe we can safely say that the above statements were just conjectures, by the author.

You're playing even dumber, David. Please tell me how the "rifle" got into the Paine's garage? 

45 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Didn't you know? I was a stowaway in the back of Ruth's '55 Chevy when she drove from Richmond, Indiana (my hometown), to New Orleans in September of '63.

More here ----->  "I think

[Von Pein's] family knew Ruth Paine"

I should have expected a non-answer. Par for the course for LNers