Ray Mitcham

You just don't get it, do you, Dave. Connallly actually felt the shot hit him so he should know when it did. He heard the shots and thought they came from behind him. Vast difference but then you wouldn't understand that as it does't fit your scenario.

And by that, can I assume that you DO believe ALL of John Connally's testimony and statements? Including this statement?.... "All of the shots came from the same place--from back over my right shoulder. They weren't in front of us. They weren't at the side of us. There were no sounds like that emanating from those directions." -- John Connally; 1967; CBS-TV Nice dodge, Dave. So you agree that he was right when he said he wasn't hit by the first shot. He knew when he was shot, but, as far as where the shots came from, how would he know?

What makes you think Connally should have instantly collapsed into a heap in the car after he was shot? I know that there have been some conspiracists over the years who have advocated the notion that John Connally was not hit by ANY bullet until AFTER President Kennedy was shot in the head. But it's fairly obvious (to me) that when looking at the Zapruder Film in motion, Connally has been injured well prior to Z313. It's very clear (to me) that he is exhibiting a considerable amount of distress just after Z-Film frame 224 and in the frames that immediately follow.... Plus, we know from Governor Connally's own testimony and his many public interviews after the assassination (three of which can be found below) that he didn't say "My God, they're going to kill us all" until AFTER he was hit by the bullet.... "I immediately, when I was hit, I said, "Oh, no, no, no." And then I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all"." -- John Connally; 1964 WC Testimony "Then I said right after I was hit, I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all"." -- John Connally; 1978 HSCA Testimony And we can easily see in the above Z-Film excerpt that Mr. Connally's mouth is moving and he is most certainly SAYING SOMETHING as he turns around in his seat. Now, conspiracy theorists can always argue that we really can't KNOW for a fact WHAT the Texas Governor was uttering as we see his mouth moving in the above pre-Z313 frames, but that argument is not a very strong one in light of the testimony of both John and Nellie Connally, who testified that the ONLY words being uttered by the Governor immediately after he was shot were "Oh, no, no, no" and "My God, they're going to kill us all". Perhaps what we need is a really good lip reader to examine the Zapruder Film to nail down exactly what words Governor Connally is saying in the silent film. Plus, the theory about Connally not being hit by a bullet until after the JFK head shot is defeated by the additional testimony of John Connally, who always said the third shot (the head shot to JFK) occurred AFTER Connally himself had already been hit. That fact is very plain whenever listening to Mr. Connally recount the events of 11/22/63. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7UZlseF-KY ALSO SEE: jfkassassinationforum.com/topic12298.msg383527 jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/02/sbt-clips.html So you believe some of what Connally says but not all? 'Cos it doesn't suit your theory. Got it!

As I have said in previous posts, if pigeons were on the roof of the TSBD, they would have flown away no matter where the shots came from, not just from the building under them. Having chased pigeons many times, many years ago, these dumb birds fly off at any loud noise, from wherever. Any cop with a normal degree of intelligence would realise that. As David says, the statement sounds totally made up to cover the real reason for entrance to the TSBD by Baker.

Bump for DVP. Just found out that DVP has had his posting rights stopped by the management. bump for DVP

An Australian calling somebody a Neanderthal? Oh, the irony!

Here's the news, Bob. http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,12298.0.html

Bump for DVP. Just found out that DVP has had his posting rights stopped by the management.

Mark, Yes, I am aware of that thread, primarily because I am interested in the Darnell film, and because those exhibits show Officer Baker running towards the building and the steps into the building, while the focus of everyone else appears to be "down the street." Many people are unaware that although Baker came up with an explanation that he ran into the building because he saw pigeons flying off the roof, that was not his "first day" explanation; in the very first draft of his statement, he said something to the effect (this is from memory) that he "thought" the shots came from an upstairs window, and that was his "explanation." As to the image over on the left hand side, I realize there's an image there--and yes, I have looked at it--but its very indistinct, and certainly not of the quality necessary to make an identification. I notice that most of the posts on that thread do not cite the image in isolation, but rather as part of a wider argument using a process of elimination as to who it might be at that particular location. It has always been my belief that if Oswald was downstairs anywhere on those steps (or near it) at the time, other employees would have mentioned seeing him there. There are no such reports. The only such "early" reports concern him being (possibly) in a nearby storage room, a minute or two following the shooting; and those reports are (historically and legally) far more important (and potent). As I recall, they were not properly followed up by the FBI investigation (or the Warren Commission, for that matter). DSL 5/14/15 - 4 p.m. PDT Los Angeles, California An obvious explanation for all the interest "down the street" while Baker or some other policeman is running towards the TSBD front door: that's where JFK's limo was when the shots rang out and people hit the ground and others started yelling or screaming. Due to the confusing acoustics of Dealy Plaza, most who realized that Kennedy had been shot (or shot at) would have naturally assumed that the shooter was down there somewhere, too. --Tommy Sorry, Tommy, but the shots rang out after the limo had passed the TSBD.

This frame 270 shows Connally turning round to look at JFK. David, do you really think he did this nearly three seconds after being shot in the back?

This is really getting weird. How about "more than one shooter"? And those multiple shooters fired separate bullets into JFK's upper back and throat----with neither bullet exiting the other side of his body?? Now THAT'S weird, Ray. I think you meant Ron, David Never mind, it won't be the first mistake you've ever made.

Why rely on Carrico at all? Just look at the autopsy photos. They show where the wound/trach is located---very LOW in the front of the neck.... And that throat wound is totally consistent with the back wound and with the SBT.... Well, Ray, what are you suggesting then? Are you saying that there were TWO bullets that caused the two slits in the shirt? Is that it? But if so, where's the second bullet hole in the throat? ~shrug~ Straw man, David. Explain how a bullet can cause slits. Should be easy for man of your caliber. The Black Knight starring DVP defending the Warren Report

You don't need a tape measure to see that a wound is above a tie. p.s. you never explained how a bullet could cause two slits in a shirt, and in places that don't match the overlap. Keep pushing.

Pehaps DVP, would care to comment on Dr Carrico's words. "The throat wound was located just below the Adam's apple and just above the knot of the tie. Dr Carrico, who saw Kennedy's throat wound before it was distorted during a tracheotomy and before the President's shirt and tie were roomed, was asked to point to his own throat. His questioner clarified the location for the record. Mr Dulles: And you put your hand right above where your tie is? Dr Carrico: Yes, sir.

...Clothing fibers pointing OUTWARD in the front of the shirt. (I'd love to hear a reasonable excuse from the CTers to explain this one. And if the word "fake" could be avoided, it would be refreshing.) Bullet hole in the back of JFK's jacket. Bullet hole in the back of JFK's shirt. Slits (that don't match) on the front of JFK's shirt. Bullet hole in the back of Connally's jacket Bullet hole in the back of Connally's shirt. Bullet hole in the front of Connally's shirt Bullet hole int hef font of Connally's jacket. Notice the odd one out, David. How does a bullet make slits (which don't line up)?

Both the photos you present show JFK turning to his left, i.e. leaning to his right, particularly the large photo, which exaggerates the appearance of Connally being well inboard of JFK. Compare your photo with the mine shown above.

A silent movie doesn't show anybody saying anything. By the way, how does Myers cartoon compare to an actual photo of the limo? [url=http://s46.photobucket.com/user/Fourbrick/media/JFK-in-Dallas2_zpsfe6695cd.png.html][/u Note how the right shoulders of JFK and Connally and Kellerman all line up.

How soon after the shot that hit JFK in the throat, did Connally say "My God they're going to kill us all" ?

In his WC testimony, Barnett says this. "So since this was the only fire escape and there were officers down here watching the this back door, I returned back around to the front to watch the front of the building and the fire escape. " ​Who were the officers watching the back door? Couldn't have been the cops on the railroad tracks they were too far away to be watching the back door.

Those idiotic plotters are at it again, aren't they Bob? They decided to give JFK a haircut when they "faked" all of the autopsy pictures. Oops! And they left the Mauser on the sixth floor (even though they were trying to frame their patsy with a Carcano). Oops again! And then they screwed up the paper trail for Oswald's rifle purchase, making it look like he bought a 36-inch gun instead of the 40-incher that the plotters used to frame their one and only patsy with. Another oops! "They" can't get anything right, can they? Remind me to never hire those boobs the next time I want to cover up a Presidential assassination. As JFK himself said in the 7/25/63 phone call below (referring to the "silly bastard" in the accompanying picture).... "I wouldn't have him running a cathouse!" I feel the same way about the stumblebums who the conspiracy theorists assure me were responsible for engineering and/or covering up your death, Mr. President. Translation of above post. "I haven't got a clue, so I'll change the subject."

"The evidence indicates.." Really? ""In 1997, the review board found and interviewed Saundra K. Spencer, who worked at the Naval Photographic Center in 1963. She was shown the autopsy photographs in the National Archives and found that they were NOT the photographs that she had processed.

""His son Bob said that his father told him that 'hair had been drawn in' on the photos to conceal a missing portion of the top-back of President Kennedy's head," according to a review board memo about a meeting with Mr. Knudsen's family.

"In 1997, the review board found and interviewed Saundra K. Spencer, who worked at the Naval Photographic Center in 1963. She was shown the autopsy photographs in the National Archives and found that they were not the photographs that she had processed. The pictures that she developed and printed had, "no blood or opening cavities." she stated. The film was brought in by an agent she believed was with the FBI. "When he gave us the material to process, he said that they had been shot at Bethesda and they were autopsy pictures." She was told, she said: "Process them and try not to observe too much, don't peruse." ------------------------- Robert Knudsen's widow, Gloria, revealed to the review board that her husband told her that photographing the dead president was "the hardest thing he had ever had to do in his life." Mr. Knudsen testified before the House Select Committee on Assassinations, which in the late 1970s reopened the official investigation into the killings of both President Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., and Mrs. Knudsen said he later told her that four or five of the pictures the committee showed him did not represent what he saw or photographed that night and that at least one of them had been altered. "His son Bob said that his father told him that 'hair had been drawn in' on the photos to conceal a missing portion of the top-back of President Kennedy's head," according to a review board memo about a meeting with Mr. Knudsen's family. Mr. Knudsen's observations were identical to those of another autopsy photographer, Floyd Riebe. The House Assassinations Committee suppressed Mr. Knudsen's testimony. Oops!

Prove any of the photos are genuine. Should be easy.

That's a different photo, David. Mind discussing what colored the back of the head of the photo I posted? Photos can't be altered can they, David? They can't be faked, can they, David? They can't be substituted , can they, David. I prefer evidence from people who were there and physical evidence which can't be denied. Seems you are desperate to support the Warren Commission. Best of luck.