Ray Mitcham

Are you aware, Ron, that sound scientific analysis has proven the so-called 'magic bullet' theory? If you're not, and you think there is a more rational explanation, I'd like to hear it. If all of the shots didn't come from behind, where do you think they came from? There was no grassy knoll shooter, unless you really do trust the likes of Jean Hill (changed her story in an effort to seek publicity) and Gordon Arnold (a retard who wasn't even there). The head shot. Do you believe that came from the front? If you do, I'll show you why you're wrong. It's really quite simple. Sound science has thoroughly debunked the SBT from the beginning. No it hasn't. If you want to ignore the scientific analyses of the assorted bullet fragments recovered, that's fine. Let's forget about that. How then do you account for the film that shows Kennedy and Connally reacting to a shot at precisely the same time? You are quite right, Paul, They are both reacting to a shot at precisely the same time. Trouble was they were reacting to a shot , not to "BEING" shot.

Can we discuss Prayerman here?

Some of them aren't intelligent enough to be paid disinfo artists.......

So you don't even allow for the possibility of Frazier being "mistaken" about the length of the paper bag? Is that correct? As I said, it's no wonder you're lost. Was Linnie Mae also mistaken? How inconvenient that they both were "mistaken" about the size of the bag. When you are in a hole, David, stop digging.

It was a high velocity bullet. A little streamlined piece of metal designed to penetrate flesh. What's magic about it? If you watch the Zapruder film in slow motion you can see both Kennedy and Connally reacting simultaneously. How do you account for that? And no damage? Show me another bullet which has done anything similar which didn't show damage.

That's exactly it. David. Makes sense once it is coloured properly..

Brilliant logic, Ray. ~eyeroll~ No wonder you're lost. Even the easy things are beyond your grasp. Tell me, what's the official number of people who you think are required to witness an event in order for you to consider those people "truth tellers" instead of "liars"? Is the number 3, 4, 5? 55? (We know, of course, it's not as low as "2".) It would seem you are the one who is lost, David. Lost in the midden of the Warren Report. You either believe Frazier was telling the truth about the bag or you think he was lying. Either way, his story doesn't allow for the rifle to be carried into the TSBD in that bag. Two uncorroborated reports from siblings is hardly evidence. Now do you think it is possible that Frazier's sister could have been backing him up in his story? Yes or no will suffice.

BA - I have yet to find where your observations are not some of the finest offered on this forum... I'll add - Or how it appears that Lovelady's arm is in FRONT of the black man who we know was well west and closer to the camera... David whilst agreeing with your general conclusions, I feel that your coloured photo showing Lovelady with his shirt in green, omits the lower part of his arm. It is not, IMO, the arm of the black guy in front of him. Why would the black guy have his arm in the air, and where is his hand?

I'd love to know how CE399, the "magic bullet", came through all those wounds and lost just a small amount of lead from the base. Jfk's back, Jfk's throat, Connally's back Connally's rib Connally's chest, Connally's Wrist Connally's thigh. A truly "Magic" bullet.

Hi Paul. An easy yes or no doesn't suit. t don't know. However either they were both lying, to CYTA, and there was no bag. Therefore no rifle. Or they weren't lying and the bag was too small to carry the broken down rifle. (I tend to think that they were lying, but that's only a feeling in my water.) Either way, The story doesn't add up.

And given the circumstances, why would you expect anybody else to necessarily have seen Oswald with the package? I wouldn't Expect anything. Nobody else saw the package. It's early in the morning on Nov. 22. Lee walks toward the Frazier house. Linnie Mae happens to be looking out the window and sees LHO with the package. Then the only other person that I would have completely EXPECTED to see the package---Buell Wesley Frazier---sees the paper bag on the back seat (and sees LHO carry it into the TSBD Building). You can expect whatever you want. Nobody else saw the package.Period. And it's quite possible that Oswald might have stashed the bag/rifle in the Loading Dock area BEFORE he ever entered the inner door that led to the TSBD's first floor (where Jack Dougherty was). But we also know that Dougherty said he only saw LHO that morning out of the "corner" of his eye. So why would you expect him to have necessarily seen any package even if Lee had it with him at that time? As I said, I don't expect anything. Whether the rifle was in the loading bay before or after he entered the doors immaterial. Nobody else saw the package. So, IMO, the argument about "Only Two People Saw Him With The Package" is a very weak argument given the time of day and the conditions of Oswald putting the package in the back seat of Frazier's car (where nobody BUT Frazier and Oswald himself could possibly see it on the way to work). Therefore, I wouldn't necessarily expect anyone else to see that brown bag. And, quite obviously (given the overall evidence and testimony), I'm right---nobody else did see it. No sh*t, Sherlock. You are right, as I have been telling you all along. Nobody else saw the package. therefore they could both be lying. jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/oswald-his-rifle-and-his-paper-bag.html

Hmm....I'm not so sure. The neck leading into the shoulders seems too steep downward but it could be a variety of factors to consider.....in another topic lol. Thanks for the input and feedback for those of you that responded. Sorry, back on topic. Similar position to this position, B.A.

B.A., the reason why Lovelady's shoulder appears to be odd is because he is leaning forward with his left shoulder down so he can see better around the entrance corner. Imagine yourself in his position, you are standing on steps and the limo is disappearing out of your line of sight. You can't move forward because of the people in front of you so you lean forward and to your left, dipping your shoulder, automatically. Try it.

Paul, only two people said they saw Oswald carrying a package. Frazier and his sister. Do you agree that they could have been lying for their own reasons? Just because they said he was carrying curtain rods, does not necessarily mean it is true. Not strong evidence on which to base a opinion.

Sorry, Pat, but I prefer to believe the original statements of the Doctors at Parkland rather than dubious autopsy photos and doctors.

Here we see how a LN par excellence, DVP twists things the people write. Quote from above. "MARTIN HAY SAID: Nowhere in my review do I state or even suggest that "all the evidence is fake and phony". .... I never suggested that there was anything "fraudulent" about the rifle. DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Good. Then Oswald is guilty. He has to be guilty if the evidence is not "fake" or "phony" or "fraudulent". -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note the devious omission by Von Pein of the simple word "all", in Martin's statement. Changes the meaning completely. Shame on you, VP. Therefore, according to your logic shown above, because some of the evidence is "fake" or "photo" or fraudulent" then Oswald was framed.

Thirded (?) WOW!.

Greg ...." can we run through all the possible cameras he may have had access to?" Where did he say he had evidence?

This was in the Daily Mail, David. Might be of interest to you. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2236766/Clint-Hill-Jackie-Kennedys-bodyguard-reveals-decades-guilt-49th-anniversary-JFKs-assassination.html

Sound of a firecracker?

Further information on the steps, for those who are interested.

Ray, Just looking at the photographs, it's hard to believe that there is only a 4'2" difference between street (sidewalk?) level and top of the step. Respectfully, --Tommy These are the actual measurements which I assume will be more accurate than trying to judge by eyes only. The measurements are from the sidewalk, which is what I meant by street level.

Just for information, I have had this from the TSBD re the heights of the entrance steps. Top three steps are 7 1/4' high next is 7 1/8' Next is 7 1/4" Nerxt 7 1/8" and the bottom riser is 6 3/4" Total of 50" from street level to top step.

Thanks, Vanessa. Don't know if you mean this photo. If so the door being opened by the cop, is central and the glass to the left as we look at it, is a fixed partition. (You can see the radiator behind the glass- it wouldn't be there if the partition was a door..)