Ray Mitcham

I then took a wider look at the Parkland witnesses, and realized that a number of them did not describe the occipital wound they are purported to have described.

Which ones would they be, then, Pat?

(I don't want any "later" statements which showed some of the surgeons toeing the line-)

Pat, If the Harper bone fragment is Parietal bone i.e. from the right side of he President's head, (which I assume is your position), can you explain how it was found, 25' to the left and rear of where the limo was, when the head shot occurred?

If his assessment is true, certainly the efforts to save the President, combined with body transfer in Dallas and transport could well have resulted in a much more apparent rear wound than at Parkland. Or at least it seems so to me.

Larry, how much more apparent do you want the wound to be than that seen by the surgeons at Parkland?

ie.

""The head wound was difficult to see when he was laying on the back of his head. However, afterwards when they moved his face towards the left, one could see the large, right rear, parietal, occipital, blasted out hole, the size of my fist, which is 2 and a half inches in diameter. The brain, cerebral portion had been flurred out and also there was the cerebellum hanging out from that wound. It was clearly an exit wound from the right rear, behind the ear. A right occipital area hole, the size of my fist.""

It depends which one thinks is likely.

Could the photos be fake or altered?

Could the Parkland doctors initial comments be incorrect.

I know which is more likely.

If you were involved in an illicit affair, would you keep letters, receipts etc, Carmine?

Frazier is quite right. Oswald obviously couldn't have been on the stairs at the Lancer Conference.

Tom Robinson, the mortician must also have ben hallucinating when he said to the ARRB.

"a large open head wound in the back of the Presidents head, centrally located right between the ears, where the bone was gone as well as some scalp"

So many competent people who saw what wasn't there.

I prefer to believe the first statements of the Parkland surgeons.

Quote by PatSpeer.

" But that's not all she had to say. According to White's notes, she also said: "All the ride to the hospital, I kept bending over him saying, 'Jack, Jack, can you hear me, I love you, Jack.' I kept holding the top of his head down trying to keep the..." White's notes then detail that when discussing her husband's condition at the hospital, Mrs. Kennedy said "From here down"--and here she made a gesture indicating her husband's forehead--"his head was so beautiful. I'd tried to hold the top of his head down, maybe I could keep it in...I knew he was dead." Thus, according to White, she said the wound was at the "top" of her husband's head--not once but twice..."

It is important to note "According to White's notes.."

Hearsay doesn't count.

The words "right rear" are pretty vague, Robert. If someone hit me above the right ear from behind I would tell people he hit me on the back of the head. Hill has consistently claimed that by "right rear" he means above the right ear

Above the right ear would be "right mid" or "right side" not "right rear"

Funny how one can make things mean what you want them to mean.

I hear you Ray. But anyone who would not be vociferous about defending someone standing next to him unarmed during a shooting has been made aware that the fix is in.

Were there notes made of what Lovelady said to the DPD, aware that Oswald had been marched past him for interrogation, as captured on news film?

I don't disagree with anything you say, David. I was just suggesting a reason why Oswald might not have been mentioned.

Not evidence, Bob. Supposition.

If Oswald is Prayerman, then neither Shelley nor Lovelady defended him by saying he was on the steps during the shooting, or it is not recorded that they did.

David, perhaps Lovelady nearly identified Oswald.

Mr. BALL - Who was with you?

Mr. LOVELADY - Bill Shelley and Sarah Stanton, and right behind me

Mr. BALL - What was that last name?

Mr. LOVELADY - Stanton.

Beautiful interruption by Ball. who never let Lovelady say who was behind him.

How can anyone ignore evidence in truth, because this is the only choice they have to be able to maintain the farce that LOVELADY was DOORMAN, they can't address the evidence so they created the excuse that LOVELADY was just confused by a request made from the FBI to specifically wear the attire he had on the day of the assassination, then two FBI agents and maybe a photographer failed to understand that LOVELADY was confused, he never meant to tell the two Agents that he specifically wore a 'red and white vertical striped' short sleeved shirt during the assassination, he just did. The FBI obviously did not recognize the conflict that the shirts are not similar, the WC utterly missed it also because they never requested LOVELADY to set the record straight and the news media printed stories that claimed 'experts' determined that the shirts matched, so even the 'experts' failed to see the difference.

Maybe they just weren't very smart back in 1963 or maybe we are not as smart as we should be today.

Honestly I can't comprehend anyone ignoring the FBI evidence, when I became aware of it, it was case closed, period.

It is foolish to even argue the point that LOVELADY can't possibly be DOORMAN when LOVELADY claimed this himself.

The really interesting thing to me is how they were able to brainwash so many people to absolutely believe LOVELADY was DOORMAN, with absolute fanaticism and the funny thing is if you challenge the consensus both the WC and the conspiracy buffs unit to crush any possibilities that the word might spread. This is the most curious thing, how do they get people to react this way, without reason?

Lovelady always claimed he was doorman. EVERY co-worker of Oswald's and Lovelady's ever asked about the man in the Altgens photo claimed Lovelady was doorman. Buell Frazier, in Dallas on the most recent 22nd, claimed Lovelady was doorman for the millionth time. There was confusion over the shirt Lovelady wore on the 22nd. The FBI seemed to think Lovelady wore the shirt he'd been wearing on the 22nd when they took his photo. He later told Groden that they'd failed to ask him to wear the shirt he'd been wearing on the 22nd when they took his photo. Anyone who's studied the records know that the FBI was far from perfect and made numerous mistakes. Unless someone can find an image of Lovelady on the 22nd WEARING THE SHIRT he was wearing in the subsequent FBI photo, the issue is completely closed.

Ray

Look at A6 again. If that is Doorman's arm, it is clearly in front of the black fellow. The arm may not belong to the black fellow but, if it belongs to Doorman, Doorman is picking the black fellow`s shirt pocket.

No, it isn't Bob. The arm is not in front of Lewis. Perspective makes it appear so. Doorman is set back quite a few feet from Lewis, so I agree that it couldn't be his arm if it was in front of Lewis. It just isn't.

Believe what you want, Bob. Unfortunately, like religion, it isn't enough.

I'm not prepared to go on showing how wrong you are. You are now parroting exactly what Ralph Cinque said last year before he disappeared after being laughed off the forum.

Cheers.

(p.s. You aren't Cinque is disguise are you, Bob?-- Just wondering.)

From what I understand of Cinques work, I believe he pointed out the cut and lay of the shirts seen on DOORMAN and OSWALD are similar as well as some of the visible details being similar, I can see that this is true.

The depth of shade is also similar.

Conflicting with this is LOVELADY in his plaid shirt, it does not have the same cut or the same lay, they are definitely dissimilar. Plus LOVELADYS shirt is a plaid, and I don't believe the DOORMAN shirt is plaid, IMO

The black guy (Lewis?) in front of Doorman is wearing a white shirt, so what you say is his arm, can't be.

educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20354&page=6

Doorman's shirt is plaid. Oswald's isn't. You are seeing what you want to see.

With all due respect, Ray, why would Doorman have his hand on the chest of the black fellow in front of him?

Hi Bob. He hasn't .The black guy's body can't be seen as it is behind the building corner.

They didn't there is no comparison. It is Lovelady. The shirt is the correct, the hair is correct. Both match the later photos of Lovely. Give it up, Bob. Not only are you are barking up the wrong tree. Seems you are in the wrong forest.

From what I understand of Cinques work, I believe he pointed out the cut and lay of the shirts seen on DOORMAN and OSWALD are similar as well as some of the visible details being similar, I can see that this is true.

The depth of shade is also similar.

Conflicting with this is LOVELADY in his plaid shirt, it does not have the same cut or the same lay, they are definitely dissimilar. Plus LOVELADYS shirt is a plaid, and I don't believe the DOORMAN shirt is plaid, IMO

In the photo above. if what you have shown is Lewis's arm then he must be deformed.

I note you haven't mentioned how you can tell the color of Doorman's eyes from an image that is too small to show a plaid.

This is Doorman's stance. shirt outlined in yellow.

Ray, I appreciate your opinion on DOORMANS shirt being a plaid, although IMO it is not plaid, the image is too small to determine if there is a pattern.

yet you can tell the color of Doorman's irises? Stop kidding me.

If DOORMAN is not OSWALD, who is he?

Lovelady.

Ray, what do you believe you colored in?

Doorman's sleeve.

That is most probably ROY LEWIS's arm and hand, it is not a part of DOORMAN

No "probably". You are wrong. It is Doorman's arm.

ROY LEWIS is many feet in front of DOORMAN, DORMANS arm could not extend to space where LEWIS is located.

It isn't Lewis's arm. It is Doorman's.

The two shirts are totally different.

Doorman is wearing a plaid shirt.

Oswald is wearing a shirt with a very small pattern.

Here is Doorman's shirt bucket filled with two different colors.

The above shirt matches the shirt that Lovely is wearing in the DPD photos.

Ray, no I believe DOORMAN is wearing shirt that OSWALD had on when he was arrested.

So you think that the shirt Oswald is wearing in this photo is the same as the shirt Doorman is wearing?

Bump.

Ray, no I believe DOORMAN is wearing shirt that OSWALD had on when he was arrested.

So you think that the shirt Oswald is wearing in this photo is the same as the shirt Doorman is wearing?