Larry Hancock

We do now have something concrete as to when Cuban intelligence became aware of and decided to move against Morales. That is covered in the new edition and the action appears to have been triggered by their finding Morales name on a list of secret police badges issued by Batista. Based on that they issued an arrest warrant to the American Embassy, the Embassy pushed back but that was pretty much the end of Morales in Cuba and it appears that he may have had to exit Cuba shortly thereafter.....this detail can be seen in the new "Zamka" document provided for Chapter 8 on the book WEB site. -- Larry

It would be interesting to hear from him but I have some of the same concerns that Stephen Roy expressed in his forum post. Without documents it's insteresting but I'm not sure that it gives us anything really usable...after all these names have been in play for some time. And you would have to think that any document as "hot" as one showing Cuban G2 monitoring Oswald in a Miami meeting would have gotten some special treatment and generated a lot of dialog at high levels within the Cuban government. Why would Fidel hesitate to turn something like that over to the HSCA....for that matter why would Fidel hesitate to turn over any real documents which would implicate the CIA or exiles...and the HSCA did go to Cuba. ...Larry Except for a couple of letters, Escalante does not provide documents or references. He also says that he has not had recent access to the G2 files and much of what he writes is based on what he remembers from earlier investigations. I have invited him to join the forum.

John that is quite interesting, a few observations: 1) That would be the first time anyone had put Posada and Bosch in New Orleans as far as I know...and of course Arcacha Smith had left NO for Florida and then Houston by the end of 1962. 3) On the Oswald meeting in Miami...so does that suggest Cuban G2 knew who Oswald was? That they had a file on him before his trip to Mexico City? 3) On the Dallas report, that's pretty interesting...does Escalante provide copies of any of these reports or corroboration for them....it would be good to know that they are real documents from 1963. If he has samples can we get them scanned and uploaded? -- thanks, Larry

Hi John, thanks - I had not seen that. JFK Lancer issues a new release on Monday which included Edward Martino's corroborative statement. It was put out though a commercial service (see below) because we really have had little success in getting any media coverage. This one has generated some response inclouding some media in Dallas and it looks like the article you found was picked up from the release. It's certainly an uphill battle though. http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2006/dec/1...riddles-solved/ -- thanks again, Larry

Well Myra, by now you may be getting the impression that I'm pretty conservative...for a conspiracy nut that is...grin. Yes, I've played the "faces in DP" game for awhile, a good deal with James as well. For the two photos you show, I belive that is Florer and not Shackley, too young for Shackley in 63. And I don't belive that to be Morales and I think at this point James agrees. I've gotten to the point that if I have some evidence that puts an individual in a given site I consider photo matches as corroboration but beyond that I've seen way to many people that look like other people. At present, I tend to think that there is a good possiblity that we have a photo of Vidal on Elm, that we may have a photo of Milteer on Houston (and yes I'm not at all convinced by the HSCA, heck they didn't even do the leg work to check where he really was that day) and as a very wild card I'm open to Conein being in DP although somebody really needs to do some more extensive background work on him; what I've managed to do seems to show that he was in Saigon at this time frame and tied up with inquiries about the Diem disaster. Awhile back I tried, with introductions from Sherry G., to contact some specialists in photo ID to get some opinions but once they found out the location and date nobody was willing to play. In regard to John's question on Escalante, I read the earlier books he was a primary source for but have not read this one. The list looks pretty much the same as in the earlier books. My problem with Escalante is pulling out the actual Cuban G2 data from the stuff the Cubans have gotten from JFK assassination books which they clearly do read. Having said that there were some good tidbits in the earlier books and I'm wondering if he provides more primary source data in the current one? -- Larry

Hi Myra, the short answer is no I don't think he was - for several reasons. First, there are surveillance records which pretty clearly show that he was trying to get out from under the FBI just before the assassination and that effort (referred to as "Roselli's run" in the book) succeeded and put him in Vegas - when next found immediately after the assassination he is in Vegas at his favorite hotel. I feel the reason for this move may have been a last minute contact with Jack Ruby, Ruby's appearance in Vegas at the same time Roselli would have arrived was documented in several reports but the WC managed to avoid inserting it into Ruby's official time line. We do know that a call from Roslli's hotel on Sunday triggered the move to get Belli to defend Ruby (with a cover that the contact and funds were to be cut out through Early Ruby) and I suspect that came from Roselli himself - Belli's partner said he knew the caller and it was somebody he had known from Havana and casino contacts there. Roselli's key role seems to have been handling the Ruby end and some other support activities through his crime contacts; as he super sharp manager there was no need nor reason for him to be in Dallas to do that and he certainly would not have been part of the tactical plot - the thought that he was scheduled to be a shooter at his age and with his lack of skill or practice just doens't wash. One of the open issues for research that the book does list is an effort to obtain the physical FBI surveillance reports on Roselli for the months immediately before the assassination. If they are available I have not been able to locate them and they could help a lot; clearly from the records we have he was under surveillance on a daily baisis with his comings and goings tracked by FBI agents in LA and Vegas. aAnd the FBI knew about his CIA contacts and Cuban activties - also missing on the Roselli surveillance are any reports at all from the Miami office. Anther key in tieing Roselli into things would have been more background work on Alex Gruber who was most likely a cut out used to get money to Ruby in Dallas. So....can't say for sure he was not in Dallas but what we know at this point does not confirm that he was while his presence in Vegas right before and right after is confirmed. -- and you didn't miss it in the book...I don't think I put in a firm conclusion one way or the other.... Larry

Thanks John, Francesca reported that yesterday and the webmaster is going to work on it today. We've been doing some structural changes to the site and that may have broken the links in B; I checked some of the other appendices and they seemed to load OK. If anyone finds a broken link please email me and I will work with the webmaster to fix it. We've are uploading some new documents that Pat provided, they will go as new documents in Chapter 1. They are interesting in that it appears someone was carrying on the Castro threat early in 1964 and attempting to shift it to Johnson. Hopefully we will also post a very interesting piece by George Michael Evica - his presentation at the Lancer conference dealt with Carcanos, Cunningham and Interarmco and the quantity of Carcano's which the CIA had been shipping to clients. It suggests that the Carcano might have had much more significance than we realized and that (wild speculation on my part) the Kliens Carcano may have been a substitution to cover up a Cuban Carcano connection. It also has some implications for the mysterious death of Garrett Underhill discussed in the last appendix. -- Larry If you click on the documents in this section you get the message "file not found".

Bill, you can find extensive documents on this from the CIA's own effort to deal with the situation - one with Christ's wife - who was very upset with the Agency and could have turned into a major security leak herself. It's pretty clear that the effort was intending to bug the Chinese, it would have been an attractive opportunity to get their codes in a relatively insecure situation. How and why Christ himself went in having no real operational experience is quite unclear and indeed it did turn out that the whole thing fell apart badly....any allusion to the Marx brothers might be unfair but this sounds more like an engineering team trying to play covert operators without much luck, skill or training....well actually if they had training maybe it was from Hunt as they come across about on the level of the Watergate team. What happened after their return would be interesting but their is a lot of good background on the incident itself including the initial efforts to contact Cuban criminals to get them out of prison. -- Larry

Francesca, Christ was one of the very first of the technical staff of the CIA - specialist in electronics including intercepts, bugs, etc. He managed to get involved in a Cuban penetration to bug the Chinese in Havana but their operation went bad and they ended up just trying to steal the code books...he and his team were captured but the Cubans had no idea of his real stature or knowledge. CIA first tried to use Cuban criminal assets to break his team out of prison but gave up on that and eneded up supporting a legal action to get his team out as part of a general move to free Americans in prison there. Actually Martino met Christ and the team in prison and was added to the negotiation list as part of an effort to divert attention from Christ and his team. Christ's wife was very upset with the Agency over all this and reportedly Christ was also quite upset and held the Agency responsible for his imprisonment. Beyond that his activities after return are unknown (at least to me) including why the HSCA would have thought he might be in Dallas....he was basically an electronics engineer not a covert operative. -- I'll be interested to see what anyone else has on him... Larry

No Pat, it appears that Jenkins was never in Japan...his duties were more in SE Asia. If you check a couple of the new charts on the site I think they lay that out pretty well too. However one "new" individual was stationed in Japan and although he may or may not have crossed paths with Oswald he very likely did with Richard Case Nagell....that would be Henry Hecksher aka Bob. And he was on Cuban affairs in 1962 - 1963....going on to a lead role in AMWORLD. -- Larry

John, it would be very important to have a dialog with Wilson, we might even be able to provide some interesting insights for him. However as with a couple of other folks, it would be self defeating to even talk about an outreach....so I'll have to settle for the routine "no comment at this time"... Larry

Here we go John: #1 I feel the meeting in question is extremely important because it created a documented, official paper trail that would have illustrated Baker using Johnson's personal influence (this is not just a DC cocktail party handshake but a scheduled meeting, albeit brief, in the VP's office) to support his use of Johnson's patronage in deal making. The meeting occurs in the timeframe in which Baker, Black and their Vegas partners are putting together the Serve U Corp government contractor deals. Having this meeting accessable to Congressional investigation was a huge risk when the Baker scandal blew up and the investigations began. Of course Baker could always have used it to expose Johnson but more importantly Fred Black would have been well aware of the significance and a few remarks under oath - he had been scheduled to testify - could easily have made Johnson front page news and effectively contaminated him beyond political recover since he was very much on the edge at that point anyway. When you combine that with the fact that Fred Black was John Roselli's confidant and long time friend - enough so that Roselli stayed with Black when testifying to the Federal committees I think the potential exposure of Johnson (call it access, call it leverage, call it blackmail) is immense. Not to mention that Black, Baker, Johnson and Hoover all lived within approximately a block of each other. If one is seeking something specific that could bring Johnson into a conspiracy, I feel this would be it.... #2 Am aware of that...unable to comment. #3 The Obit should be on the WEB site now as an illustration, should be in B but have not checked myself since the site went up. Lots of new documents in there for the appendices and some for the chapters but I haven't heard much feedback on them yet. #4 You will also want to refer to the charts that deal with relationship between these CIA officers, I hope they will be a handy guide for readers since the relationships are complex and cover many years. In this regard I think that the last appendix on a small Clique within the CIA is important and have begun to refer to this network as the "cadre"...to take a term from Angleton. -- Larry

Myra, it does seem like a convenient coincidence but it is true that Nixon was serving as a counsel for Pepsico and had just completed work on a contract, giving him an actual business reason to be there. Not to mention that Pepsi Corporate would take the opportunity to display their "connections" to the bottlers. It's probably worth noting that Johnson himself had been in Dallas earlier that week speaking at the Pepsi event and that there were a number of "celebraties" in town for it. The press even captured Nixon out on the town with a fellow Hollywood female star one evening that week. In regard to the Bay of Pigs thing, its important to recall that Nixon would have known about Hunt who was a major figure in the early days of organizing the exiles and who was also ultra right...we know Hunt suggested an assassination project on Castro (being told not to worry, things were being taken care of) so I speculate that Nixon was well aware of the huge can of worms that Hunt could open up on the CIA and on D.C. in general if he ever decided to go public with all he knew and had heard. Certainly Hunt was a huge exposure for the CIA, making him a perceived point of leverage for Nixon. However, I'm not giving up the option that Hunt was a plant into the Nixon administration in the first place and loyal to the CIA all the way....Nixon might have thought he would turn on them but I'm betting he didn't realize the deck was stacked. We often wonder if Hunt was intentionally exposing the operation, the only thing I can say that there are enough other examples of Hunt's poor security and equally poor tradecraft that I'm willing to accept that he just flat screwed up. -- Larry Thank you Larry. It's just that Nixon's presence in Dallas on Nov 22 was so...convenient. And he was Kennedy's losing opponent, and Prescott's boy. I can see where you think bay of pigs meant "bay of pigs." I hope I'm paraphrasing you correctly. After all, it was a genuine scandal, crime, failure, and so on. And with many of the same folks involved in Watergate and Bay of Pigs, quite the hot potato. I'm still struggling with Watergate. It could seem like a setup to get rid of Nixon, or an attempt of Nixon's to get something on the CIA. I just don't know.

John, I'm not aware of any newspaper reviews; we have sent out two rounds of press releases and plan another significant release for this week but no particular response for the first rounds. I have done three radio shows so far. At this poiint we have been focusing on web activities and initial book distribution, still working to get stock in as many outlets as possible. I know some review copies have been sent out but have no idea about the Sixth Floor per se. -- Larry

I just wanted to take a moment to thank everyone for the kind remarks - also to note that I am trying to answer all questions and comments in the books section promptly as possible. And given something Myra asked me there I thought would make sense to add a comment here. If my analyses is right, the individuals involved in Dallas (the "cadre" plus fellow travelers) didn't disband after Dallas. They had a common cause and continued to network with each other and pursue that cause across SE Asia and Latin America for the better part of two decades. I added the last appendix to my book because I think it gives a completely independent lead on this "cadre" and I hope that others will continue to track them (and their media apologists) as John does in his series of posts on Mockingbird. -- Larry

Myra, thanks very much for the kind words - one of the advantages of doing the first generation of the book as essentially a giant research paper was that it gave the publisher and I both the opportunity to step back and take another look at what we could do to improve the focus and readability, both major issues with any work which attempts to pull in as many elements to provide a historical context. I know it could still be better but I think the combination of the format plus what is being done to support it with an interactive web site offers a lot of potential for this type of work. As to your question on Nixon, I don't really see him personally involved or even having foreknowledge, although I suspect a few of his long time friends and supporters with organized crime associations may have. He may also have heard some of the gossip after the fact from these same associates. I have a different interpretation of his Bay of Pigs reference than many, I actually belive that he was well aware that the initial planning (which he participated in) called for elimination of left wing elements of any new government in Cuba, even if that meant a "black list" of leftist exiles. And he knew that senior CIA officers were aware of that - you can imagine what that would have done to the Agency in the Church Committee era; acknowledging that the US government and the CIA were supporting assassination of elements of the exile community and had elimination black lists would put us in the same light as what the Soviets had done throughout Eastern Europe (whether or not Nixon knew CIA had developed black lists and assassination plans for Guatemala is another question). So, you can imagine the leverage that would have given Nixon over the CIA, and possibly over other individuals (especially the senior congressmen who had held intelligence committee oversight). I suspect that if one were to probe for individuals at higher levels, beyond those called out in the book, that the right direction is to pursue the direction pointed out in the last appendix - a dedicated "cadre" (to use Angleton's term) of devout anti-Communists within the Agency - and some fellow travelers - including the folks who saw ample opportunity to make money on side deals for weapons and drugs. The sort of weapons deals that Underhill was tracking can't all be made with hard Yankee dollars, which brings up other mediums of exchange with that offer even higher margins, ala Iran-Contra. All for a good cause of course. And then John's Mockingbird people have to cover that up too. -- Larry

Thanks very much for the kind words....and once you get started I'll be happy to respond here or via email if you have questions or want to chat about it. larryjoe@westok.net -- Larry

Interestingly enough, a new document places Morales in Miami at JM/WAVE on Nov. 22.....however its an internal memo written to his own files on a fairly minor subject. Sort of interesting that the memos apparently placing Phillips in MC at least on the 23rd also have to do with an exfiltration that involve Morales and one of his closest covert associaties Sforza. Certainly these guys were bright enough to create a paper trial for themselves so it all leaves us hanging... And as far as I can tell he could easily have moved in between MC and Dallas in that period with no particular problem. As does Phillips remark to his brother about Dallas, which given that he was on his death bed might suggest that he was simply to weak to argue any further and came back with a Yes simply to admit he had been involved. Nobody ever really took Phillips as a suspect until Fonzi began investigating the Bishop connection...I don't think either he or any other HSCA investigator interviewed Phillips wife (since he interviewed other family members I'm pretty sure he would have mentioned it) but I can drop him a note and ask. One of the things that makes it so difficult is that there is a host of circumstantial evidence to suggest that Phillips was using Oswald for propaganda activities and anyone setting up Oswald would have been exposing Phillips to some extent as well. Not sure we will ever know but I'd say if nothing else its pretty clear that Phillips knew some of his compatriots were involved in the conspiracy and decided to cover their tracks to protect them and probably the agency as well. Which if true would make him an accessory after the fact if nothing worse... -- Larry

Thank you very much for the kind words; we did make a concerted effort to improve the "readability". You've asked a couple of very significant questions and I'll try to deal with both: 1) Lamar and I do differ in our perception of who was in "control" (someday we may arm wrestle on that but didn't have the time last week in Dallas...grin). Clearly he sees organized crime and the crime lords as being not only the drivers but in operational control using their own people. On the other hand I see the people specifically involved in Dallas as being incited and generally coordinated by CIA officers. It's clear that people like Morales had created their own teams who were loyal to them and who would undertake black operations quite apart from sanctioned and managed CIA projectes. The type of projects nobody would put into a memo or assign a registered crypt. The people that took orders for such projects trusted these officers - who clearly were sympathetic to their cause above and beyond rules, regulations or national policy....and they continued to take their orders and support in the anti-Communist crusades long after Dallas. But by 1963 these networks had been using OC connections for years. An senior people such as Morales and multiple connections to Roselli and through him to Marcello, Trafficante et al. And connections can be used for sanction, for assets, for money...with no questions asked. And very likely with encouragement and promises from the top. So...when Lamar rolls up the details he ends up at OC; when I roll them up I end up with a small clique associated with the Agency and the exiles (including fellow travelers, not just Agency employees). One of the things that forces me to make that call is that when we find leaks and gossip within the OC connections, it's very general e.g. "Kennedy will be hit" or "Kennedy has to be hit" etc. When we find with some connections to the exiles and Cuban matters it gets much more specific e.g. "My friend Lee, in Texas, who speaks Russian and is a great shot" or "he's an ex-Marine, he could shoot Castro, he could shoot Kennedy" (paraphrases of course). 2) I think its pretty clear that when somebody brought a lead to the FBI (or the CIA) that a Castro supporter was involved they went all out.....they spent a great deal of time on Martino's reports, on the Pedro Charles letters, on various claims of Oswald contacts at the Cuban embassy in MC. However when somebody brought incidents involving Oswald with exiles...say the Parrott Jungle or Abilene incidents, they spent as little time as possible. Or rather as much time as was needed to try and write off the source...the Odio incident being a prime example. I think its pretty clear that Hoover really wanted to find the Communists behind it.....he tried to leave some room for that in the FBI report, Johnson just wouldn't have it. -- Hope that answered the questions, Larry

Hi Pat, actually we have taken a different approach this time. Because we are at a point where new corroborative documents and investigations are emerging monthly if not weekely we decided that a CD was not nearly dynamic enough. You will find all the documents from the first edition plus several hundred pages of new documents on a book web site at: http://www.larry-hancock.com/ The site is available to everyone and contains not only documents but photo pages (which would have been way to small if compressed to fit the hardcover book format of the new edition) and charts. It also contains new documents which have surfaced since the second edition was completed early this fall....and others will be going up next week. I also hope to add new information surfaced by other researchers and authors. George Michael Evica made a presentation at the Lancer conference on Carcano's, Cummings and Interarmco that is highly important to the last appendix (A Small Clique In the CIA) and will be preparing a version to go on the WEB in support. So...no CD...but hopefully a much more dynamic WEB resource to support not only the book but ongoing reserach related to its premise. I've made an open invitation to researchers to provide new, relevant material that can be posted there...with full credit to them. -- Regards, Larry

That's correct Pat, it was removed after consultation with Noel Twyman who had granted permission for use in the first edition. Long time readers of this forum may recall the probable cause but I'm not going to comment further in a public venue. -- Larry I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Larry had to cut the Hargraves interview for the second edition.

Those following this thread may want to look at the great Morales photo page James Richards did for my book WEB site. You will find it at the address below and I would caution that in 1968 the better reference photos for Morales are probably at the lower right of the page.. http://www.larry-hancock.com/photos/p-ch08...es%20photos.jpg -- Larry

Robin, I have perhaps 15-20 pages from the manuscript, or rather what appears to be a preliminary draft/plan for a manuscript. Some of pages include lists of chapter headings and notes while other pages do appear to be actual copy. The pages were provided to me by a UK researcher. I certainly don't have the full manuscript and from what I do have could not have sworn he had full completed it. In some ways it has the feel of a real work but in others it almost seems to be a poke at the work of the HSCA. And it appears to be quite convoluted with multiple levels of meaning. ...which of couse is typical Phillips...sigh. -- wish I could be more helpful Larry

SOMEONE WOULD HAVE TALKED and http://www.larry-hancock.com The book can now be ordered through Amazon but there will be the regular distribution delay as JFL Lancer fills their requests. If you order through the book site below the book shouldl be shipped from stock in hand. If you are ordering from outside the U.S. it that may prove to be quicker and in some cases possibly less expensive. JFK Lancer will take travelers checks in payment if you have no other payment option and ship on receipt of the checks with your order. http://www.larry-hancock.com/order.html -- hope that helps, Larry

Chuck, given the second slip you posted - do you know any more about it - the reason I asked is it seems a bit strange to find a two year period mentioned as if it were part of the subject and not an actual date for the sheet itself. Which makes me wonder if it is really a post assassination effort to collect material on Oswald from the period in question? I agree it would be a good thing to see the material it refers to; just need more data to be sure this really shows GP/FLOOR (which appears to have been the crypt for a post assassination investigation of Oswald) before the assassination - which would be another ball of wax entirely. ...on the second point, my question on Alvarado has always been that since he willingly came to the U.S. and since his information was potentially so explosive - why wouldn';t they shove him on a US military aircraft and fly him to some highly secure base and not only polygraph him but do whatever was required. After all his story was being backed by CIA in MC and I can't think of a more explosive issue - unless somebody way up at the top knew it couldn't be true. I really don't think the Mexican government would have objected - why all these games about keeping him in Mexico, well fed and unstressed...?