Steve Thomas

David, About the word, "Citizen" being loosely translated,... I don't think so. On page 430 of CE 985, there is a Certificate dated July 15, 1961 that “Comrade”, Lee Harvey Oswald was employed as an assembler at the Minsk Radio Plant. The date January 1, 1960 is typed on the Certificate. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135&search=%22Harvey_Lee+Oswald%22#relPageId=444&tab=page About the documents being manufactured after the event,... I don't know, and I don't have any idea how you would go about finding that out. Steve Thomas

Jim, You have asked a very interesting question. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/fritz1.htm Mr. FRITZ. Let's see, I have it right here. Oswald was arrested at 1:40 and I think he was taken to the city hall about 2:15 and I started talking to him probably a little bit after that. Mr. BALL. You will notice that Sims and Boyd make it, state they brought him from the conference room to your office at about 2:20. Mr. FRITZ. That might be all right because I have 2:15 here but I think 2:15 may be 5 or 10 minutes too early. Mr. FRITZ. Yes; my desk is right here and I sit behind it right here and there are some chairs and telephone table right here and I had him sitting in a chair, right here. Just about the time I started talking to him, I had just started to question him, I got a phone call from Mr. Shanklin, Gordon Shanklin, agent in charge of the FBI calling for Mr. Bookhout, and I asked Mr. Bookhout to go to pick up the extension. So, I got up from my desk and walked over to the lieutenant's office and asked Mr. Bookhout to come in, the reason I asked both of them to come in and Mr. Bookhout is in my office most of every day and works with us in a lot of cases and asked him to come in with Mr. Hosty. Mr. BALL. So Bookhout and Hosty came into your office? Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir. Hosty didn't get to police headquarters until about 3:15. DPD Archives Box 15, Folder# 1, Item# 111, page 2 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box15.htm “I invited Mr. Bookhout and Mr. Hosty in to help with the interview. Mr. Truly had told me that one of the police officers had stopped this man immediately after the shooting somewhere near the back stairway, so I asked Oswald where he was when the police officer stopped him. He said he was on the second floor drinking a coca cola....” Frit's handwritten interrogation notes: http://www.jfklancer.com/Fritzdocs.html The notes begin at 3:15PM Hosty and Bookhout are present. “claims 2nd floor Coke when off came in” What did Fritz and Oswald talk about in the one hour between 2:20 and 3:15 PM? Did they talk at all? Steve Thomas

David, It gets weirder. CE 985 p. 433 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135#relPageId=447&tab=page is a character reference for LHO. Two times they refer to "Citizen" Oswald. Once as Harvey Lee Oswald, and once as Lee Harvey Oswald. It says he was hired as a regulator in the experimental shop. His employee workbook doesn't reflect any promotions or transfers in the time he worked there. Steve Thomas

Jim, I also ran across an FBI interview of Roy Truly done on 11/23. During his interview, he said that Mrs. Reid had told him that LHO had had a coke in his hand. I can dig it out if you need. Steve Thomas

Larry, Taking your points in reverse order: The thing is we continue to discuss very old talking points like this as if they had been somehow corroborated...perhaps they have but if so I surely would like to see it. Amen. What he was doing was trying to convince the CIA and any other intel group that would listen that the French government was thoroughly penetrated by communists... Lately, I've been trying to view that through the lens of the nuclear arms race. Regardless of the hyperbole we were fed about "The Missile Gap", the U.S. was far ahead of the Russians in terms of the number, and technical sophistication of its nuclear payload. The Russians were desperate for any info they could get and even though the U.S. was expanding its arsenal throughout western Europe, I think we were reluctant to share too much info with the French for fear it would be leaked to the Russians. Tell me about New York City. Steve Thomas

Jim, Roy Truly testified to the WC on March 24, 1964. Marrion Baker and Mrs. Reid (who worked in the TSBD) testified on March 25, 1964. Baker testified first, and Reid followed him Reid in (3H 270) http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/reid.htm "Mr. BELIN. All right. You went up through the stairs and then what did you do? Mrs. REID. I went into the office. Mr. BELIN. You went into your office? Mrs. REID. Yes. Mr. BELIN. And then what did you do? Mrs. REID. Well, I kept walking and I looked up and Oswald was coming in the back door of the office. I met him by the time I passed my desk several feet and I told him, I said, "Oh, the President has been shot, but maybe they didn't hit him." He mumbled something to me, I kept walking, he did, too. I didn't pay any attention to what he said because I had no thoughts of anything of him having any connection with it at all because he was very calm. He had gotten a coke and was holding it in his hands..." DPD Archives, Box 5, Folder# 2, Item# 51. http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box5.htm Affidavit by Mrs. Robert Reid on November 23, 1963 "Lee mumbled something and walked on out of the office. I did not understand what he said, he had a coke in his hand." Steve Thomas

Larry, So far, I haven't found corroboration for the bullet points listed. • In March-April 1963, Souetre met with Howard Hunt (of Watergate and Bay of Pigs infamy) in Madrid. I don't think it was Hunt that Souetre met with. I've never read anything from Souetre or Hunt that they met each other. I believe it was Guerin Serac who was with Souetre, but I don't know who it was on the CIA side. I suspect it was Irving Brown, but that's just a suspicion. Did Hunt ever write that he met with Souetre? • In April-May 1963, Souetre met with Gen. Edwin Walker (who Oswald allegedly shot at) in Dallas. I've never read anything from Souetre, or Walker that they met with each other. I've never read anything from Souetre that he was ever in Dallas, TX. • Souetre trains that summer with Alpha 66 and the 30th of November (both anti-Castro groups) in the New Orleans Mandeville region. I've read that rumor, but have never ready anything from someone who said, "Yeah, I saw him there.", or, "Yeah, I trained under him and he he taught me XYZ". My research may be lacking, but I've just never read any first person accounts. Souetre has claimed that even though he had a U.S. passport, he never actually traveled to to the U.S. There is a suspicion that he met with some people in the Fontainbleau Hotel in Miami in April of 1963, but I need to do more research on that. Steve Thomas

In his Letter of Resignation to the Director of the Minsk Radio Factory dated May 18, 1962, Lee Harvey Oswald signed his letter: Lee H. Oswald, Locksmith of the Experimental Shop. (22H) CE 1314 p. 486 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1317#relPageId=516&tab=page I never knew that about him. Steve Thomas

Sandy, I don't want to detract from this thread, but a while back I wrote a piece on what I thought was a possible lead for the rambler. You can read it here if you like: https://myjfksite.weebly.com/ Scroll down just a little ways. I make the case for the car belonging to the House on Harlandale guys, and the driver as Manuel Rodriguez Orcarberro. Steve Thomas

Joe, I don't think so. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/craig.htm Mr. BELIN - Why would you think it was a Nash? Mr. CRAIG - Because it had a built-in luggage rack on 'the top. And--uh--at the time, this was the only type car I could fit with that type luggage rack. Mr. BELIN - A Nash Rambler-is that what you're referring to? Mr. CRAIG - Yes; with a rack on the the back portion of the car, you know. Steve Thomas

Hi Jeff, It's been a long time since I read Graef's WC testimony. Wow! That's some job application process. No phone, no social security number, no signature on the application, a PO Box as your permanent address. Mr. GRAEF. Into this box here---at the time that I interviewed him, it was probably--then, I--after this card was written, he may have been employed here at our place, oh, perhaps a week or two before this card was brought in to him to sign. Mr. JENNER. I see. Mr. GRAEF. In other words, I think because of the busy way the department runs, sometimes days will elapse before we get around to getting one of these to him and getting his social security number and so forth. In other words, he came to work and some days may have elapsed from the time, for example, that we had the interviews, there may have been some days passed before he actually came to work. Now, at this time, when I took this information down on my notes, my personal notes of the interview, there was no phone number, as I recall. Steve Thomas

There have been references on several threads about a cable sent on the evening of 11/22 from Fort Sam Houston to Strike Command, McDill AFB in Florida. In the cable, reference was made, to information obtained by Detective Don Stringfellow of the Dallas Police Department. I managed to locate a copy of the cable, which you can find here: https://archive.org/details/nsia-ArmyIntelligenceJFK 3) In the Stringfellow cable referenced above, Harvey Lee Oswald was described as 5'10" tall, 165 lbs, with blue eyes Report of John Fain (FBI Dallas) dated July 3, 1961 CE 980 p. 388 1 copy to ONI New Orleans https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135#relPageId=399&tab=page On April 28, 1960 Mrs. Marguerite Oswald provided the following physical description of Lee Harvey Oswald: 5'10" tall, 165 lbs blue eyes. I'm wondering now if that's where the physical description came from - Marguerite back in 1960. Steve Thomas

Sandy, I don't want to derail the topic of this thread, but I have been struck by how the Cyrillic languages resemble each other and how the Romance languages resemble each other. I wonder when they split and why. Steve Thomas

Zach, You've asked a lot of probing intelligent questions. Might I suggest, if you haven't done so, to look a the City of Dallas JFK Collection here: http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/index.html Check the Index under Property - there's a lot to wade through. I can't say for certainty that everything in there made its way into the Warren Commission's list of Exhibits. They probably did, but I've never really sat them down side by side to compare them. (One set is is in Box 7, Folder# 10, Item# 59. These were taken out of the Irving address I think) I asked the question about Oswald's social security number a couple of years ago here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/5255-lhos-ss-number/ In Box 6, Folder# 7, Item# 23 p.1 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box6.htm There is a Louisiana Interstate Request for Reconsideration of Monetary Determination. (I think LHO was requesting his unemployment compensation from Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall be reconsidered). The SSN number for LHO is given as 433-54-3937. but here: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=58995&search=Jaggars#relPageId=116&tab=page his SS# is listed as: 433-56-3739 WC Exhibit 427 (an Employee ID questionnaire) here: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=182&tab=page gives Oswald's SS# as 433-54-3937 I wonder who made the mistake on his payroll record. I know Oswald seemed to transpose numbers a lot. I don't think we have an actual application for the job at JCS - I could be wrong. And maybe at that time, JCS didn't make copies of a person's SS card when they applied for a job. I wonder too why the Social Security Administration didn't catch that when they started withholding Social Security from his wages. Steve Thomas

Brian, He, or she, seems to be the "keeper of the files" in some way. See page 3 of this document: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=6926&search=EXO#relPageId=3&tab=page "seven file folders on the Oswald case which had been kept by CI/R&A in the former SIG vault" Steve Thomas

Lance, Приветствую. I have studied Russian too somewhat. I know how hard it is. Steve Thomas

Bart, These guys... *sigh* *smile* From: "A Possible French Connection" http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/S Disk/Souetre et al, Published/Item 02.pdf "The first we know of his career is that he was connected with the French 4th Air Force with the rank of captain, and in 1953 he was stationed at Petite Mulioun near Rheims. In his work there he was associated with an American Army Depot and became a friend of Dr. Lawrence Alderson, a U.S. Army captainfrom Houston, Texas. He and Dr. Alderson corresponded through the years, up until the time of the Kennedy assassination. He also became friendly with Alderson's successor, a U.S. army captain named Letourneau from Texas." When Alderson knew Souetre in 1953, Souetre was a 23 year old shave-tail second Lieutenant in charge of an anti-aircraft battery. He wouldn't make Lieutenant until 1954. He wasn't stationed at Petite Mulioun. More than likely he was stationed at Reims – Champagne Air Base (French: Base aérienne 112 Reims-Champagne) (IATA: RHE, ICAO: LFSR) is a former Front-line French Air Force (French: Armée de l'Air) (ALA) NATO air base. The base is located approximately 4 miles (6.4 km) north of Reims; about 81 miles (130km) northeast of Paris. The paratroopers did provide base security. Petite Mulioun, more than likely, was Mourmelon-le-Petit, a commune in the Marne department in north-eastern France. There was a mothballed USAF base there. The air force tried to make a go of it after WWII, but it didn't pan out. It became a fuel depot head for shipments further on into Germany. https://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?https&&&www.usarmygermany.com/Units/ComZ/USAREUR_ComZone%205.htm “The north/south road by Billy went to Mourmelon-le-Petite to the north and then on a little further north to Mourmelon-le-Grand. There is/was a French Army base out from Grand (we went to it for annual qualification on the M-1). Petite was an active R&R station for US troops during WWII. In later years I met some men who spent R&R time there during WWII and one even married a US Army nurse at Petite that he met while there. The highway at the south end of Billy went to Reims to the west and to Chalons to the east. As mentioned before, at various times we billeted at Billy and also at a US Air Force mothballed airbase just north of Vatry on the west side of D977.” Steve Thomas

Pat, Translating is very hard. You did a good job. Steve Thomas

Brian, Thank you. Just on a hunch, I ran EXO through the Mary Ferrell Foundation web site. There's about 600 document references to EXO, including these two: SIGNIFICANT DETAILS REGARDING VISIT BY SENATE COMMITTEE REPRESENTATIVES WORKING ON THE OSWALD CASE https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=6926&relPageId=7&search=EXO LETTER TO PATRICK CARPENTIER FROM G. ROBERT BLAKEY https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=50776&relPageId=2&search=EXO The first one tells me that EXO is a person. Steve Thomas

Gene, You've given me much to mull over. Might I suggest that it wasn't the Middle East, but Central Asia: 1) Peter Dale Scott COPA Conference 11/24/2010 http://archive.politicalassassinations.net/2010/11/peter-dale-scott-the-jfk-assassination-as-an-engineered-provocation-deception-plot/ “(Jack) Crichton, an oil engineer and corporation executive, also doubled as a member of the Dallas overworld. Although his 488th intelligence unit consisted almost 50 percent of Dallas policemen, Crichton also used it as a venue in the late 1950s to conduct “a study of Soviet oil fields;” and in the 1990s Crichton would himself explore the oil and gas reserves in the former Soviet Union. Also interested in Soviet oil reserves at this time were Ilya Mamantov’s employers and personal friends, the wealthy Pew family in Dallas who were owners of Sunoco. By 2009 the second largest source of crude for Sunoco (after Western Africa) was Central Asia, supplying 86,000 barrels of crude a day.” 2) James Corbett https://www.corbettreport.com/episode-298-gladio-b-and-the-battle-for-eurasia/ "In 1904 the Geographical Journal published an article that articulated the reason that these great powers were engaged in the struggle for this piece of the globe. The article was called “The Geographical Pivot of History” and was written by Sir Halford John Mackinder PC, the Director of the London School of Economics... The Geographical Pivot of History” is the document that is often said to be the founding document of geopolitics and constitutes the first formulation of what would come to be called the “Heartland Theory.” “Who rules East Europe commands the Heartland; Who rules the Heartland commands the World-Island; Who rules the World-Island commands the World.” Looking at the map of what Mackinder had in mind for the Heartland it’s apparent that the “heart” of this Heartland is indeed the Central Asia-Caucasus region.” 3) https://theintercept.com/2017/07/22/donald-trump-and-the-coming-fall-of-american-empire/ In the Shadows of the American Century: The Rise and Decline of US Global Power Paperback– September 15, 2017 by Alfred W. MCCoy (Author) “One of the key things that I think very few people understand, after World War II, the United States became the first world power, the first empire in a 1000 years to control both ends of the vast Eurasian continent. Now Eurasia, that enormous landmass, is the epicenter of world power. It’s got the resources, the people, the civilizations that—you’ve got to control that to control the world. And the United States, through the NATO alliance in Western Europe and a string of alliances along the Pacific littoral with Japan, South Korea, the Philippines and Australia, controlled the axial ends of the Eurasian landmass.” By the end of the Cold War we have about 800 overseas military bases. Most of those were arrayed around the Eurasian landmass.” Just as an aside, General Challe, in his defense of the Genral's Putsch in April, 1961 said that he was attempting to thwart the influx of Chinese communists - not Russian in North Africa. Steve Thomas

Who sent LHO to Minsk, and why? Oswald's “Historic Diary: Warren Commission Exhibit 24 Vol 16, Pg 94-105 http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/historicdiary.htm Nov 17 - Dec. 30 I have bought myself two self-teaching Russian Language Books. I force myself to study 8 hours a day. I sit in my room and read and memorize words. All meals I take in my room. Rima arranged that. It is very cold on the streets, so I rarely go outside at all. For this month and a-half, I see no one, speak to no-one, except every now and then Rima, who calls the ministry about me. Have they forgotten?, During December I paid no money to the hotel, but Rima told Hotel I was expecting a lot of money from USA. I have $28. left. This month I was called to the passport office and met 3 new officials who asked me the same questions I answered a month before. They appear not to know me at all. Jan 4. I am called to passport office and finally given a Soviet document, not the soviet citizenship as I so wanted, only a Residence document, not even for foreigners but a paper called, "for those without citizenship." Still I am happy. The official says they are sending me to the city of "Minsk." There is an application dated January 11, 1960 for a job as a regulator in the Minsk Plant, a job Harvey Lee Oswald started on January 13th, but there is no application for a job as an Assembler, a job which shows Lee Harvey Oswald as starting on January 1st. He wasn't issued an identity card which allowed him to live and work in the U.S.S.R. as a "stateless person without citizenship", until January 4th and he signed a receipt for it on January 5th. How could he have gotten a job without an identity card? He didn't apply for it, he was assigned to it. For a month and a half, Oswald has dropped out of sight. There's no record of him, and suddenly he is being sent to a place 420 miles away smack in the middle of nowhere. LHO was sent to Minsk and put in place. Why? Steve Thomas

Gene, “Oswald, Marine Corps Intelligence and the Assault on the State Department.” by Peter Dale Scott Fredonia Conference, July, 1990. http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/S%20Disk/Scott%20Peter%20Dale/Item%2002.pdf As published as Folsom Exhibit No. 1 (19 WH 656-768), this personnel file (Marine Corps) contains only unclassified documents and information. There are no overt references to Marine G-2, and only one passing reference to the existence of confidential intelligence records on Oswald in the Department of the Navy. This reference is in a letter of 29 July 1960, recommending Oswald's discharge from the Marines. The letter mentions two confidential reports from the Eighth (New Orleans) and Ninth (Chicago) Naval District Intelligence Offices, which it cites as follows: DIO, 9th ND confidential report serial 02049-E of 8 Jun 60 DIO, 9th ND confidential report serial 02296-E of 27 Jun 60.6. Years later, replying affirmatively to a request for these DIO reports from researcher Paul Hoch, the Naval Investigative Service (successor to ONI) supplied two records. These established a fact not available from the rest of the personnel file: that Marine G-2 (in regional offices as well as at Marine HQ) received documentary information from this ONI District Office concerning Oswald.7. In addition at least one of these G-2 records listed Oswald by a slightly different name. This alternative name, which eventually was used by at least four different military intelligence sources, was "Harvey Lee Oswald."8 This "Harvey Lee Oswald" reference is no accidental anomaly, but part of an organized pattern, widely dispersed, that suggests an official intelligence deception (and possible dual filing system). Serial 02296-E of 27 Jun 60 is the earliest Harvey Lee Oswald reference we now possess of over two dozen, from the files of ONI, FBI, CIA, Army Intelligence, the Secret Service, the Mexican Secret Police (DFS), and the Dallas Police.9 7 .In this paper I am deeply indebted to the archival research and analysis of Paul Hoch, as well as to additional research by Larry Haapanen and Mark Allen. 8. The four sources using "Harvey Lee Oswald" are: DIO, 9th Naval District, DIO, 8th Naval District, ONI (NAVCINTSUPPCEN.3) and Army 112th Military Intelligence Group (see Peter Dale Scott, Deep Politics Two. 144). In response to the request for serial 02049-E. the NIS supplied a record with a serial that was contiguous but slightly different: "DIO. 9th ND confidential report serial 02048-E of 8 Jun 60." The second document, accurately supplied, carried a title different from the first: "Subj: OSWALD, Harvey Lee." We are left to wonder whether serial 02049-E of 8 Jun 60 concerned Harvey Lee Oswald as well. 9 . For a discussion and incomplete list, see Peter Dale Scott, Deep Politics Two, 80, 85-89, 118-19, 142-49. Now; I've been able to trace this reference as far back as January, 1960 - which pre-dates JFK and the election in November - back to the Eisenhower days. What was going on in the world stage that would necessitate, or facilitate this "joint U.S./Soviet ploy"? What was the end game? And, I'm not so sure it was an Angleton game being played. I am thinking more military than civilian. Steve Thomas

I don't know how you would reconcile this. The doctor's report from October 23, 1959 following Oswald's "suicide attempt" on October 21st: "The patient does not speak Russian. One could judge only by his gestures and facial expression that he had no complaints.... According to his statement in the Admission Ward - with the aid of an interpreter..." https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135#relPageId=478&tab=page How you go from that to conversing like a native in a year and a half is... (problematic?) Steve Thomas

This just keeps getting weirder and weirder. Documents submitted by Dobrynin to the State Department on May 5, 1964: CE 985 pp. 404+ https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135#relPageId=418&tab=page There is an application for an identity card, (good for one year) which was granted on January 4, 1960, and again on the 4th in 1961, and 1962, but no application for citizenship, and no paperwork or correspondence from the Soviet Government denying such an application. So who the hell's application for citizenship was denied? There's an application for a job as a regulator in the Minsk Plant dated January 11, 1960, (for which Citizen Harvey Lee Oswald was hired on the 13th), but no application for Lee Harvey Oswald who, a Certificate says, was employed as an assembler as of January 1st) (p. 430).; which means he was employed at the factory before he received his Identity Card. PS: In his job application, Oswald wrote that his parents were dead, and he had no brothers or sisters. A real head scratcher. Steve Thomas

Paul, I've been approaching this as if Harvey Lee Oswald was a real person. That may not strictly be the case however. As I said to David Joseph, I think the Harvey Lee Oswald persona was created long before we knew it to be, but by who or why or how, I don't know. And, it, or may not, be connected to John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee. I think these are two separate issues. I think this persona, or dossier was created and shared across all spectrums of the intelligence community. You have it showing up in FBI files, CIA, Secret Service, Army and Navy Intelligence, Dallas Police Criminal Intelligence. It would explain a lot, like Revill's list of TSBD employees. It would explain the U.S. angle, but not the Soviet one. That one's got me puzzled. (One crazy theory would be to have an element or elements of the U.S. intelligence community working with elements of the Russian intelligence community for some unknown reason). Steve Thomas