Steve Thomas

James, During his testimony on August 25, 1975 Halley is discussing an incident that took place in 1963 and says, "...that was the only individual that I am aware of during my tenure as Station Chief in Miami..." http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=5 Who was the Station Chief in Miami in 1963? Would that be Shackley? Steve Thomas

Michael, I'm sorry I didn't save it, but just the other day I ran across an FBI memo that Hoover's assumption about a Secret Service Agent being killed was based on a phone call from Gordon Shanklin in Dallas to Hoover somewhere in the 2:00 PM time frame. My assumption was that Shanklin, or someone in the Dallas FBI office was listening to the police dispatcher and when it came across the radio, Shanklin called Hoover to fill him in. Steve Thomas

Ashton, To your April timeline, you could also add this: William Harvey was in Miami and Plantation Key, Florida chartering a boat "for ops purposes", buying dinner for 2 on the 17th, (himself and someone he called an "unofficial advisor"), buying dinner for himself and 2 "unofficial advisors" on the 20th, and staying for 3 days at the Eden Roc hotel in Miami. The whole time he was charging expenses to the ZRRIFLE program. on the 20th, a ZRRIFLE termination payment of $1,000 was made. This comes from The CIA microfilm collection, reel 14, Folder L from pages 38 on. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=558750 Some say that Harvey was meeting with Johnny Roselli and either QJWIN or Jean Rene Souetre. Steve Thomas

I think this is the photo people have been referring to: Steve Thomas

Well, I'll be damned. CIA Document 104-10518-10305 is a 1967 cable. The cover sheet has no "from" and no "to" information, but judging from the body of the cable it appears that it is from the JMWAVE Station, probably to headquarters. The subject line of the cable has Loran Hall's name as the subject of the 9 page cable. The cable has to do with whether the CIA sponsored the MDC Training camp in New Orleans in 1963 and is a rundown of what was known about various individuals connected with the camp. As you would expect, people like Richard Rudolph Davis, Leovino Interian, and Victor Paneque are discussed. Guess whose name appears right in the middle of page 7? Mrs. Sylvia Odio. Pages 7 and 8 are duplicates. This document is in the CIA HSCA CIA Segregated Files, Microfilm, Reel 52. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=1 Steve Thomas

James, Thank you. That was very helpful. Following the failed assassination attempt, he was reportedly confined in a refrigerator for 18 days. See here: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=2 Steve Thomas

Something that Gerry Gerry Hemming wrote on 3/2/2005 in the Education Forum got me thinking if the MC Mystery Man might be Reynol Gonzalez: “Mario Tauler Sague's name appeared on the list of assassins and assassination attempts given to Senator McGovern by Fidel. Mario/Saul figured prominently in the repeated hit attempts generated by Sylvia Odio's parents before they were imprisoned.” But it looks like Gonzalez was arrested in October, 1961 and not released until 1977, so it couldn't be a picture of him taken outside the embassies in 1963. From: US - CUBA RELATIONS CASTRO ASSASSINATION PLOTS INTRO: Subject: Three Phases of Assassination by Debra Conway Oct 5, '61 - Castro assassination attempt planned by Veciana and CIA 's "Bishop" is discovered by Castro and Veciana is forced to flee Cuba; Reynol Gonzalez, one of Veciana 's co-conspirators, is later arrested hiding on the estate of Amador Odio, a wealthy industrialist and father of Silvia Odio. Gonzales, the elder Odio and his wife are arrested. (Fonzi Chronology p 416) From: Gaeton Fonzi. The Last Investigation: http://cuban-exile.com/doc_001-025/doc0019a.html “In his research, Hoch had discovered that Silvia Odio's parents had been arrested by Castro because they had harbored a fugitive named Reynol Gonzalez who was wanted for plotting to kill named Castro in October, 1961. The plotters planned to use a bazooka fired from an apartment near the Presidential Palace when Castro was making one of his marathon speeches. The apartment had been rented by the mother-in-law of the principal plotter, Antonio Veciana.” “I was, however, intrigued by another possibility which Paul Hoch raised in a separate memorandum to Schweiker. In a long and impressively detailed analysis of one of the early released Church committee reports on assassination plots against foreign leaders, Hoch wondered why the 1961 Veciana attempt against Castro was not mentioned. He pointed out that although the CIA claimed its admitted series of plots with the Mafia where allegedly suspended at that time, Hoch noted that there was still in effect an earlier directive -- called NSAM 100 -- which ordered a contingency plan drawn up for Castro's "removal." Wrote Hoch: "The hypothesis that NSAN 100 and subsequent events were directly related to the Veciana plot deserves careful consideration. This would be the case even if there were no possible link to the Kennedy assassination through the people involved in the Odio incident. ...It is possible that Veciana was under the direct control of the CIA." The significance of Hoch's shrewd speculation was much deeper than it appeared on the surface. He was contending, in effect, that since the Veciana plot did not appear in the Church report, it was one the CIA was trying to hide.” Table ronde « Qui sont les vrais terroristes ? », studios de la Télévison cubaine, 22 mai 2002. (Round Table, Who Are the True Terrorists?) http://www.cuba.cu/gobierno/documentos/200...a/m220502f.html Reynol González (agent de la CIA). Oui, nous avons mis le feu à l’Encanto, aux Ten Cents, aux quais, à une des tours des quais, à la manufacture de cigares, à la papeterie de Puentes Grandes, à une manufacture de tabac du coin à La Havane et à plusieurs autres endroits que je ne me rappelle pas. Mais, vrai, les Américains se sont joués de nous sur certains points. Ils nous utilisent pour maintenir l’état d’agitation interne et d’inquiétude par le sabotage par ceci ou par cela, pour pouvoir faire leurs plans. Autrement dit, on leur sert de couverture, tout simplement, après ça ils font leurs propres plans. C’est la réalité. Et ceux qui meurent ici et qui sont prisonniers ici, c’est nous, les Cubains. Yes, we set fire to the encanto, to the Ten Cents, to the quays, to one of the turns of the quays, to the cigar factory, to the papeterie of Big Puentes, to a corner tobacco factory, to The Havana and to several other places that I do not remember. But, true, the Americans played themselves us on certain points. They use us to maintain the internal state of agitation and worry of sabatoge to be able to do their plans. They use us as cover and after that they do their own plans. This is the reality. And those that die here and that are prisoners here, this is we, the Cubans. From: http://webfusion.ilo.org/public/db/standar...,RECOMMENDATION Cuba (Case No. 283) The International Federation of Christian Trade Unions (I.F.C.T.U.) 09-Feb-62 Report No. 60 (Vol. XLV, 1962, No. 2 S I) Interim Report Table of content Introduction Recommendations - Introduction 12. The I.F.C.T.U addressed to the Director-General on 9 February 1962 a telegram containing a request for urgent intervention by the I.L.O on the ground that a Cuban trade union leader, Mr. Reynol González, was in imminent danger of execution. The Director-General brought the contents of this telegram to the notice of the Prime Minister and the Minister for Foreign Affairs of Cuba by two telegrams dated 9 February 1962. 13. By a letter dated 22 February 1962 the Director-General transmitted the complaint to the Government of Cuba in accordance with the normal procedure for the examination of complaints of alleged infringements of trade union rights. In his letter he explained to the Government that, as matters involving human life were raised in the complaint, the case fell within the category of cases regarded by the Governing Body as urgent, in accordance with the decision taken by the Governing Body at its 140th Session (November 1958), and, for this reason, requested the Government to furnish as speedy a reply as possible. 14. No reply to any of the aforesaid communications has been received from the Government. - Recommendations 15. In these circumstances the Committee recommends the Governing Body to request the Government of Cuba to furnish its observations on the complaint as a matter of urgency. In a Cia Document, Reynol Gonzalez was identified as a JMWAVE Station asset.. Says he was released in 1977. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=5 Does anyone know more about Reynol Gonzalez? Steve Thomas

I think the whole reference to Lee Harvey Oswald is a smoke screen. In one of the photos of the Mexican City Mystery Man, it looks like he might be carrying a diplomatic pouch and looking at a passport. What did or does a diplomatic pouch look like? Could he have been operating under a diplomatic cover? Steve Thomas

Dawn, There is a girl who calls herself "Witness" who has been posting about Karyn Kupcinet, Donald Norton, and Ralph Geb since 2005 here: http://thecloakofdarkness.blogspot.com/200...01_archive.html Steve Thomas

Larry, No, the memo itself makes reference to a decision that Ambassador Mann made at 6:00 PM, so it was definitely post-assassination. I just think that J.C. King knew who this person was. Win Scott knew that King knew who this person was and Mann was so concerned about this particular person, and the circumstances of his picture being taken (the place and time) that he wanted copies of the photos hand delivered by special airplane. And no, I don't think that these people believed that the photos were photos of Lee Harvey Oswald. Steve Thomas

James, Could you also send it to me? sthomas@ohio.lib.in.us If you'd like, I could try and post it on the Forum. Steve Thomas

Larry, I think the whole reference to Lee Harvey Oswald is a smoke screen. Nowhere in the body of that memo is there any reference to LHO. The typing that says, "these photos were determined to not be of Lee Harvey Oswald" were added later, and on a different typewriter. Based on what is in the memo, we don't even know if there is a connection to Kennedy's assassination at all, other than Mann was concerned enough about this individual to want to have copies of his picture hand delivered to Dallas. Why Dallas? We don't know. Did the CIA have something special going on in Dallas, TX in late 1963? The memo does not say to whom the Legal Attache was supposed to deliver the photos. I don't think this memo has anything to do with Oswald, and somebody interjected that as a way of clouding the issue. Steve Thomas

Lee, I can't say that I ever read Whaley's affidavit before, but in reading through it now, I was struck by the fact that in following Whaley's directions, he actually drove right past Oswald's rooming house and continued for another five blocks before dropping him off. I always thought that Whaley pulled up five blocks short, but he actually drove Oswald right past his house and then continued on for another five blocks. Strange. Steve Thomas

Daniel, Which is why I opened this thread in the first place. For 45 years, we've been told that this man's identity is unknown; but that's not the case. His identity WAS known, and maybe still is by a handful of people. I found it astounding that King was not interviewed by the Rockefeller or Church Committees (at least I didn't find any testimony on the Mary Ferrell pages. I don't know if he was interviewed by the HSCA or not. Steve Thomas

Are there any similarities in the descriptions of the men Julia Mercer, Lee Bowers and Ed Hoffman saw behind the fence? Steve Thomas

Courtney, Welcome to a fellow Librarian. Steve Thomas

Larry, As Daniel correctly pointed out, Win Scott was not the Ambassador. I have wondered about this after running across this memo several months ago. It is almost as if Win Scott knows that his cable to J.C. King is going to be read by others and that those other people do not know who this individual is. Only King knows, and it is a carefully guarded secret. Last night I got to wondering if this Mystery Man was a double agent; if he was a spy for the Russians, but was also working as a double agent for the Americans, and that was why his identity was such a carefully guarded secret. Later in the memo, Scott refers to a decision made by Ambassador Mann at 6:00 PM Mexico City time, so this cable has to be after 6:00 PM. He also says that the Naval Attache "is making" a special flight to get the pictures to Dallas, so the memo probably pre-dates the Naval Attache's flight. He also says that copies of the photos are being sent by pouch which "will" leave Mexico City on the night of 11/22/63 - so the memo precedes when the CIA's pouches left MC probably bound for Washington. Steve Thomas

Daniel, Thank you, you are absolutely right. Steve Thomas

In a letter dated 11/22/63 from Ambassador to Mexico, Winfield Scott to J.C. King, Chief WH Division, Scott writes, "Reference is made to our conversation of 22 November in which I requested permission to give the Legal Attache copies of photographs of a certain person who is known to you." An undated typewritten note at the bottom of the page says, "These photographs were later identified as not being Lee Harvey Oswald." King knew who this person was and, Scott knew he knew. Russ Holmes Work File 104-10414-10245 http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...c.do?docId=5992 Steve Thomas

Duke, See CD 1179 Beginning on page 133 for info on the lineage of the Joiner family and Uncle Bobbie trying to get nephew Roy to shoot the President. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=143 On June 8, 1964 Bobbie Joiner was interviewed by the FBI in Grand Prairie. In this interview, he talks about renting an “Uncle Sam” suit for the upcoming visit by Adlai Stevenson in October.: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=152 I once ran across a reference to a person seen in the Dallas Police Headquarters on 11/22/63 wearing an “Uncle Sam” suit, but I haven’t been able to find it again. I suspect that it was Bobbie Joiner. You might also be interested in the mimeographed sheet done up by Glover Bee Bellah here: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=55 In his FBI interview, he said that he had handed out a few of these sheets to people in Grand Prairie and that the only person he knew who had similar ideas was Bob Joiner. He said he had discussed the questions in the sheet with Joiner. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=60 Steve Thomas

Tim, You might be interested in reading this: Oswald and Ruby by Dave Reitzes Based on "Harvey and Lee" by John Armstrong http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/JA/DR/.dr06.html Ruby's Ties From: M. B. Lambert Date: 2/22/00 http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:AvpbH...Cuban&hl=en According to various witnesses, Ruby had both the Vegas and the Carousel clubs for sale on the open market prior to the assassination. One such witness was Betty Dunegan, who came to the Carousel on what she thought was either a Tuesday or Thursday night in the first two weeks of November. She was there, she said, to negotiate the possible purchase of the Vegas club, which she thought had been put up for sale to remedy Ruby’s outstanding tax debt to the IRS. She also said that while she was there, she saw Lee Harvey Oswald in attendance, wearing a white V-necked sweater. Another potential buyer was Bertha Cheek, a rising real estate entrepreneur who visited the Carousel, ostensibly with a view to buying that club. She was accompanied during this visit by her younger beau, ‘Bob’ Litchfield. He later recalled, independent of Dunegan, that this visit had also transpired on either a Tuesday or Thursday night in the first two weeks of November. He was more precise in his estimate, for he claimed that a photographer was there on the pertinent night, taking shots of Ruby’s strippers for “a national magazine.” This photographer may have been Eddie Rocco, whose interviews with the Bureau and photographs FBI kept classified for a number of years. Oddly, Litchfield also swore he saw Lee Harvey Oswald in the club that night, also wearing a white V-necked sweater. The similarity in descriptions from the two visiting potential club buyers suggests one of two things: either they saw ‘Oswald’ on different nights, making him a recurring visitor to the club who had only one such sweater to wear out on the town; or, they were present on the same night, seeing the same ‘Oswald’ in the same sweater. In either event, they provided powerful corroboration for each other being present during this time frame, irrespective of whether the person they saw truly was Oswald. So, is it possible that this is Oswald? Steve Thomas

James, You might want to look at this page: http://www.extracobanks.com/downloads/Extr...Summer_2002.pdf Skelton is on page 4. In another site, Skelton is described as being from the liberal wing of the Democratic Party. It's easy to see why he would view ultraconservative Dallas as being a dangerous place. Steve Thomas

Peter, Actually, I think this was in answer to a question posed to him by Guy Rose. Rose asked him what his address was. Please see my article, How Did the Police First Learn of 1026 N. Beckley? here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2331 Steve Thomas

James, Thank you. I answered you in the Lancer Forum, but for the benefit of the others here, this is what a former Dallas policeman told me: Steve Thomas Steve: Charles Woodrow Noble was a small time criminal that was still around in the late sixties. There was a gambler that was always in trouble and owed every bookie in Dallas named Buster James. Buster had a nasty wife named Doris Jean (Pookie) James. The last time I saw Woody Noble as he was known, he was with Pookie at a beer joint in East Dallas called the Hart Club which was a hangout for criminals. Pookie was a heroin addict and she and Woody both looked like they were 30 years older than they actually were and sure looked down on their luck. Woody has a warrant out for not paying the fine and court costs on a Theft conviction and my partner and I put him in the County Jail. That was in 1968 and that is the last time I saw him. He had been to the State Prison several times and as I recall mostly for burglary and theft offenses. He swore he wasn't taking drugs, but he shook all the time and all his teeth had fallen out. I guess he was in his late fifties then, but looked like an 80 year old man. I seem to remember Pookie's old man Buster was in prison at that time. I had an old friend that was a retired Dallas County Deputy Sheriff. He worked the Kleberg-Seagoville area of Dallas County for years beginning in 1939. He went to World War II and returned and went right back to working the same area. He talked about the Noble family often. There were four notorious sorry families in the area. the Sorrells, the Watsons, the Daniels and the sorriest of all the Nobles. The all married into the other families and were all bootleggers, thieves, burglars and small time criminals. Woody Noble's mother was always getting arrested for something and he had a sister that killed her husband when he was passed out drunk by pouring gasoline all over him and setting him on fire. Here are a few newspaper articles mentioning Woody--------------

In February, 1992 alleged tramp, John Forrester Gedney told FBI Agent John E. Decker that he (Gedney), Gus Abrams, and Harold Doyle were placed in a four-man jail cell on November 22, 1963. After they had been there for a while, they were joined by another individual by the name of Woodrow Noble, whom he described as an "older while male, who apparently was known to the local police." However, CD 1444 is a letter from Jesse Curry to Lee Rankin concerning the phone calls made by jail inmates over November 22 - 23, 1963. On page 9 of that document the name Woodrow Noble appears as making a phone call during the 3rd Platoon shift. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=10 He appears listed as being in cell A-9, and appears to be the only prisoner from that particular cell to make a phone call over that weekend. According to Deputy Chief Batchelor, the Headquarters Third Platoon worked the 3:00 PM to 11:00 PM shift http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=157 I can't make out the signature of the jail personnel who signed Noble out, but it doesn't appear to match any of the names on the list of Third Platoon shift personnel. To an untrained eye, the signature almost looks like Revill, which if true, raises some questions, because in 1963 Jack Revill was a Lieutenant in the Special Service Bureau. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=138 From what I can tell, this person only signed out two other people over that weekend: an Edgar Cox, and an Ed Lane. Take a look at the prisoner sign-out sheets and tell me what you think. (Just on a a side note curiosity, Daniel Wayne Douglas and the Joiner brothers were all listed as making phone calls during that shift). The name Noble does not appear in the Index to the DPD Archives. Nor do I find him him in a Google search. He's only listed once in a google groups search by Denis Morisette back in around 2000, asking the same kind of questions I am. Who was Noble? Where did he come from? Where did he go? I got to thinking, if I was a Dallas Policeman, and I had three people who were suspected of having shot the President, I'd stick them in a cell and then plant someone to listen in on their conversation and try to draw them out. Maybe when Gedney said that Noble was "apparently known to the local police", maybe he did not mean that Noble was known because he was a troublemaker Steve Thomas