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Ian Lloyd

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    Billy Sol Estes Documents

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billie_Sol_Estes(emphasis mine):

    Kennedy assassination allegations[edit]

    Estes also alleged in the 1980s that he had inside knowledge that Johnson was involved in the assassination of Kennedy.[15][16] In 1984, he provided a voluntary statement to a Grand Jury in Texas alleging that the homicide of a key investigator in the Department of Agriculture case was perpetrated by an aide to Johnson, Malcolm Wallace, upon orders from the then-Vice President.[1] When the Department of Justice asked for more information, Estes responded that he would provide information on eight other murders ordered by Johnson, including the assassination of Kennedy, in exchange for immunity from prosecution and a pardon.[1] According to Estes, Johnson set up the assassination in order to become president.[1]They refused.

    Estes reiterated the claim in a book he co-wrote with a French writer in 2003.[16][17] He said that he was not interested in writing the book – published only in France – but that he was offered "a few hundred thousand dollars" to contribute to it.[16] According to theAssociated Press, the allegation was "rejected by prominent historians, Johnson aides and family members."[17]

    Robert D. Steel, ONI Special Agent who congratulated Paul Bentley for arresting Oswald

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted · Edited by Ian Lloyd

    Vanessa,

    Everyone can remember where they were and what they were doing except, of course, the retired ONI special agent, Robert David Steel, who told me he had "very probably" done the investigation of Oswald at El Toro when Oswald defected to Russia, who was a good friend of Oswald's arrester, Paul Bentley, and whom I interviewed on tape a few years ago (and which tape I am still waiting for Bill Kelly to return to me). Steele could remember how long his small WW II ship (USS Sea Scout) was, where he was when he heard that Pearl Harbor had been attacked (Brownwood, Texas), but for the life of him he couldn't seem to remember where he was when he heard JFK had been shot.

    But I digress.

    --Tommy :sun

    Vanessa Loney, on 06 Apr 2015 - 9:13 PM, said:snapback.png

    Hi Tommy :)

    Well, there's only two possible explanations for that. He was either 1) in Dealey Plaza doing the shooting; or 2) Prayer Man.

    :)

    Vanessa,

    Good one!

    Btw, when I asked him where the ONI office was situated in Dallas in 1963, he said, "It was across the street (from the TSBD?), it was in the Postal building (the Terminal Annex Building had a post office in it !), it was in the building Kennedy was killed from ("killed from" meaning where the command center / observation center was located? -- maybe even Harry Holmes' upper floor office?) "

    But I digress, again.

    --Tommy :sun

    Tommy,

    When he said "...it was the building Kennedy was killed from.", did you follow that up with anything like "Can you elaborate on that please?" or "I thought he was supposed to have been killed from the TSBD"??? If so (I presume you did, I certainly would have), what was his response?

    Ian,

    Thanks for asking.

    "[The ONI office] was across the street. It was in the Postal Building. It was in the building Kennedy was killed from." -- Robert D. Steel

    When he said that, my first thought was that he was confused on the location of the TSBD, or the location of the Main Post Office on North Ervay, or the route of the motorcade or something. But I didn't correct him or prompt him right away. I intuited that he'd said something very significant and I was simultaneously trying to formulate a good follow-up question and hoping that my silence while doing so would make him a little nervous and that he'd say some more interesting stuff on his own, and I didn't want to influence him on that. What I did say finally was, "The Postal Building (i.e., the Terminal Annex Building) was on the south side of Dealey Plaza."

    At that point he just stared at me rather blankly and muttered / almost whispered the word, "Yes" with a slight note of resignation in his voice. I don't want to sound overly dramatic here, but I do remember thinking that he looked like the proverbial "deer caught in the headlights."

    Perhaps I should have pressed him on what the heck he meant by, "[The ONI office] was in the building that Kennedy was killed from," but I didn't.

    I thought I'd touched a nerve; that he realized that he'd nearly "let the cat out of the bag big-time," and my intuition as a first-time interviewer told me that he'd told me something very significant, but something I didn't quite understand yet, and that he might volunteer something later in the interview that would help me to understand.

    I think my intuition told me that if I asked him to explain what he'd just said, that he would clam up.

    Maybe I was a lousy interviewer, but I feel I did the best that I could.

    [...]

    --Tommy :sun

    Tommy,

    Thanks you for your considered response. I understand how it must have been when you heard that...Whilst I stated that I would have asked, in reality, i wonder if I would have since, as you say, I'd probably be considering whether he'd then just clam up if pushed, having realised that he'd just let something slip...

    Robert D. Steel, ONI Special Agent who congratulated Paul Bentley for arresting Oswald

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    Vanessa,

    Everyone can remember where they were and what they were doing except, of course, the retired ONI special agent, Robert David Steel, who told me he had "very probably" done the investigation of Oswald at El Toro when Oswald defected to Russia, who was a good friend of Oswald's arrester, Paul Bentley, and whom I interviewed on tape a few years ago (and which tape I am still waiting for Bill Kelly to return to me). Steele could remember how long his small WW II ship (USS Sea Scout) was, where he was when he heard that Pearl Harbor had been attacked (Brownwood, Texas), but for the life of him he couldn't seem to remember where he was when he heard JFK had been shot.

    But I digress.

    --Tommy :sun

    Vanessa Loney, on 06 Apr 2015 - 9:13 PM, said:snapback.png

    Hi Tommy :)

    Well, there's only two possible explanations for that. He was either 1) in Dealey Plaza doing the shooting; or 2) Prayer Man.

    :)

    Vanessa,

    Good one!

    Btw, when I asked him where the ONI office was situated in Dallas in 1963, he said, "It was across the street (from the TSBD?), it was in the Postal building (the Terminal Annex Building had a post office in it !), it was in the building Kennedy was killed from ("killed from" meaning where the command center / observation center was located? -- maybe even Harry Holmes' upper floor office?) "

    But I digress, again.

    --Tommy :sun

    Tommy,

    When he said "...it was the building Kennedy was killed from.", did you follow that up with anything like "Can you elaborate on that please?" or "I thought he was supposed to have been killed from the TSBD"??? If so (I presume you did, I certainly would have), what was his response?

    One Last Thing Before Xmas Eve: 2nd Floor Lunch Room Encounter

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted · Edited by Ian Lloyd

    I would say that Baker dictated to Burnett who wrote down what he heard. I've been in police situations (in the UK) where that happens almost all the time and I really don't see any difference here; maybe the police think it's more efficient, garners a more truthful account, or whatever. Therefore, quite why the "...drinking a coke..." bit comes into it...well, IMO, it's rather suspicious (and let's not get hung up on the Coke or Dr. Pepper bit, I'm sure Baker didn't also ask, "Oh, by the way, what's that you're drinking there, is it a Coke or a Dr. Pepper? I'd like to make sure I get that bit right in my statement/testimony...").

    Another interesting point (IMO) is that Shelley is recorded as a witness on Truly's statement!?!? Did the FBI go to the TSBD to get the statement from Truly? Did Shelley also make a statement that day?

    (I also wonder why Truly signed his twice?).

    Great New Movie Spells out the Case for Oswald as Prayer Man

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted · Edited by Ian Lloyd

    Looking at that nice clear GIF that Chris has supplied, it does look like I was incorrect regarding Baker about to step up the kerb, though IMO, he probably did step up the kerb with his next step.

    Who's the cop seen in the background running down the extension towards the Grassy knoll? Does Baker momentarily turn his head to look down that way, possibly caught the movement in the corner of his eye and then, seeing it's a cop, carried on?

    Great New Movie Spells out the Case for Oswald as Prayer Man

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted · Edited by Ian Lloyd

    If you look closely, Baker crosses just behind the signal light post on his way toward the TSBD curb/front steps.

    His path appears to be somewhere close to the red line I have drawn in.

    If you go to this link, I have stabilized the Darnell footage (labeled Truly-Baker gif) to give you a better look at Baker crossing just behind the signal light.

    https://spideroak.com/browse/share/JFKFILES/JFKVIDEOS

    password: assassination

    chris

    Superb GIF Chris, thanks.

    Great New Movie Spells out the Case for Oswald as Prayer Man

    in JFK Assassination Debate

    Posted

    A couple of thoughts on that:

    1. Was he going to talk with a cop that was standing somewhere near the corner of the building before entering (which I think RP may have mentioned previously)?

    2. Had he seen the emergency escape stairs at the side of the building on Houston as he rode toward the building and was checking those first since he may have thought that, if someone was shooting from the roof, they may have tried to escape from the building that way?

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