Jim Hargrove

THE BOLTON FORD INCIDENT In a 2015 post on this forum, Steve Bochan described the Bolton Ford incident this way (presented verbatim except I’ve deleted five or six introductory paragraphs for the sake of brevity): ==================================================== BEGIN QUOTE ============================================ BOLTON FORD DEALERSHIP CLUES by Steve Bochan [ . . . . ] 　 As most students of the assassination know, a salesman named Oscar Deslatte of the Bolton Ford Dealership, New Orleans, was visited by two men who claimed to represent a group called Friends Of Democratic Cuba, on January 20, 1961. (1) These men wanted to buy ten trucks from Mr. Deslatte, and the man who did most of the talking identified himself as Joseph Moore. As price was discussed, Moore said that he thought they should get the trucks for "no profit" for his organization, since theirs was a worthy cause. (2) Mr. Deslatte told the FBI later that Moore did not specify whether the trucks would be used here in the United States or in Cuba. (3) When Mr. Deslatte checked with his Manager, Fred Sewell, it was decided to give the gentlemen a break on the price, and reduce the usual profit margin from $75 per truck to $50 per truck. (4) As Deslatte was filling out the order for the ten trucks, he wrote in Joseph Moore's name as the buyer representing Friends Of Democratic Cuba. Seeing this, Moore told Deslatte to change the name on the bid from "Moore" to "Oswald." (5) It was at this point that the second gentleman spoke up and said that "Oswald" was "his name and it should go on the form as he was the man with the money and would pay for the trucks, if they were purchased." (6) The real Oswald - in January 1961 - was of course in the Soviet Union, so the question is why were these people representing the Friends Of Democratic Cuba impersonating Oswald in January 1961? Who were the Friends Of Democratic Cuba? Had the FBI sought this answer after the assassination by locating the Articles of Incorporation of the Friends Of Democratic Cuba (found in the New Orleans Court House where all public filings are located and available to the public), they would have discovered two things: 1). The Friends Of Democratic Cuba was formed on January 6, 1961, a mere two weeks prior to the Bolton Ford Dealership incident where not only the name "Oswald" was being used, but in fact Oswald was being impersonated, and, 2). W. Guy Banister, ex-FBI man who was once commendated by Hoover while he headed the Chicago FBI Office, was on the Board of Directors for this newly formed organization. (7) Most researchers know this as does anyone who saw the film "JFK." At any rate, the FBI didn't seem very interested in Deslatte's tale, especially since Deslatte could not identify a photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald they showed him on 11/25/63, nor, was he able to give a good description of either man to them. He told them that the reason he remembered the incident was because of the name of the organization represented, not by the name "Oswald." (8) Deslatte called the FBI after the President was assassinated and after conferring with Manager Fred Sewell about "those two guys who was in here from Cuba trying to get some buses cheap." (9) Of course it makes perfect sense that Deslatte didn't think the photograph of Oswald was either "Joseph Moore" or the other man who said he was "Oswald" because the real Oswald was not in New Orleans in 1961. Whoever identified himself as "Oswald" was not the real Oswald and even though Deslatte thought enough of the incident to contact the FBI after the assassination, they either dismissed or ignored the incident as it is not to be found in the Warren Report at all. But the evidence was that an organization recently formed by ex-FBI Guy Banister, rabid anti-Communist, was trying to surreptitiously purchase ten trucks - probably in preparation for the Bay of Pigs invasion - and was also using the name and impersonating a defector to the Communists: "Oswald." But where did Banister's new organization get the name "Oswald"? There are several possibilities. For example, it is speculated that since Banister and Ferrie were associated, Ferrie could have simply provided the name to Banister since he knew the real Oswald from his CAP days as a teen. Another speculation has Banister being aware of Oswald's defection through the newspaper reporting of the event on November 1, 1959, and thus, he could have simply used his newspaper clipping file to randomly pick the name "Oswald" to use for the purchase of the ten trucks. But the strongest evidence indicates that at least one corporate officer of the Friends Of Democratic Cuba actually knew the real Lee Harvey Oswald. That person is Gerard F. Tujague, and he is listed as Vice-President of the Friends Of Democratic Cuba in the articles of incorporation on record. (10) How did Tujague know the real Lee Harvey Oswald? It's part of that "gem" located in footnote #64 on page 143 of Volume X of the HSCA: (64) Staff review of FBI files for Guy Banister, Oct. 28, 1978, pp. 1-2. (Note: Coincidentally, Gerard F. Tujague, owner of Gerard F. Tujague, Inc. Forwarding Co., who had employed Oswald as a messenger from November 1955 to January 1956, was also a member and officer (vice-president of Friends of Democratic Cuba (see FBI teletype, 62-109060-1668, Jan. 26, 1963, p.5.) Although the FBI did interview Mr. Tujague on 11/26/63, and Mr. Tujague did provide Oswald's "employment release form" as well as various time punch cards, and the names of other employees who also worked there when Oswald did, nowhere does the report mention Tujague belonging to the Friends Of Democratic Cuba, his association with Guy Banister, or Oswald's name being used in 1961. (11) A search of the Warren Report for a mention of Tujague reveals that there are the following two sentences in APPENDIX XIII apparently gleaned from Marguerite Oswald and the FBI report of 11/26/63: "Between November 10 and January 14, he was a messenger boy for Gerard F. Tujague, Inc., a shipping company, where he earned $130 per month. His employer remembers him as a quiet, withdrawn person." Years later, when the HSCA investigated, Tujague had already died, and Frank DiBenedetto of Gerard F. Tujague's, Inc. Forwarding Co. stated that his company had employed Lee Oswald during the period in question. DiBenedetto, who took over the business following Gerard Tujague's death, stated that he had been Oswald's http://harveyandlee.net/FBI/Friends Dem Cuba.jpgsupervisor and that Oswald had been employed as a messenger. He stated further that Oswald's work consisted largely of delivering company papers and messages to various steamship lines on the docks. (12) What does all this mean? It means that at least one corporate officer of Guy Banister's newly formed organization in January of 1961, the "Friends Of Democratic Cuba," knew the real Lee Harvey Oswald before 1961 and thus probably supplied the name to the two buyers of the trucks for the surreptitious purchase. Since the Vice-President of Friends Of Democratic Cuba, Gerard F. Tujague, knew Oswald, chances are good that Banister also was aware the name "Oswald" was being used. (13) The question is why? Why would a staunch anti-Communist and ex-FBI man like Guy Banister and an anti-Communist group like Friends Of Democratic Cuba, not only use the name of a recent defector - a "Marxist" - but impersonate him as well, for a surreptitious plan to purchase 10 trucks to aid Cuba 3 months prior to the Bay of Pigs operation? With proof that Oswald was known personally to officers of a group that Banister was connected with for the purpose of aiding anti-Castro activities as early as 1961 at hand, it becomes fairly easy to see how this might have paved the way for later anti-Castro activities during the summer of 1963 in New Orleans with Banister and Oswald once again taking center stage. 　 FOOTNOTES & SOURCES 1. FBI report, 11/25/63, File NO 89-69, CD-75, SA McDonald and Danielson. (Return to Text) 2. Ibid. (Return to Text) 3. Ibid. (Return to Text) 4. Fred Sewell interview with James Alcock, NODA, 5/2/67. (Return to Text) 5. FBI report, 11/25/63, File NO 89-69, CD-75, SA McDonald and Danielson. (Return to Text) 6. Ibid. (Return to Text) 7. Articles of Incorporation, Friends of Democratic Cuba, HSCA Record Number: 1801007610242, Agency File Number: 009039. (Return to Text) 8. FBI report, 11/25/63, File NO 89-69, CD-75, SA McDonald and Danielson. (Return to Text) 9. Fred Sewell interview with James Alcock, NODA, 5/2/67. (Return to Text) 10. Articles of Incorporation, Friends of Democratic Cuba, HSCA Record Number: 1801007610242, Agency File Number: 009039. (Return to Text) 11. FBI report, 11/26/63, File NO 89-69, Record Number: 124-10238-10115, Agency File No. 89-69-688, SA James E. Schmidt. (Return to Text) 12. HSCA Volumes, Vol IX, pp. 101-102. (Return to Text) 13. Articles of Incorporation, Friends of Democratic Cuba, HSCA Record Number: 1801007610242, Agency File Number: 009039. ARTICLE IV specifies that: "The president, vice-president and secretary-treasurer shall be elected annually by the Board of Directors, and shall serve for terms of one year each or until their successors are duly elected and qualified," thus, Tujague serving at the pleasure of Banister who was a Director, probably advised and discussed with Banister the use of Oswald's name in the truck transaction. ========================================= END QUOTE ======================================= Viewed in isolation, the man who claimed he was “Oswald” could, of course, have been anyone legitimately or falsely claiming that surname. But as Steve Bochan points out, the fact that the potential buyers said they represented Friends Of Democratic Cuba suggests this “Oswald” was much closer to our case. Here is a portion of the proposal to purchase trucks for the Friends of Democratic Cuba represented by “Joseph Moore” and “Oswald.” And here are two pages from the Articles of Incorporation of Friends of Democratic Cuba listing W. Guy Banister and Gerard F. Tujague as officers. Gerard F. Tujague was LEE Oswald’s employer in the Sanlin Building during parts of 1955 and 1956. Guy Banister, of course, the former head of the FBI office of Chicago, was infamously involved with Lee HARVEY Oswald in the summer of 1963 in New Orleans. In January 1961, Lee HARVEY Oswald was living in Minsk in the Soviet Union. He could not have been the man claiming to be “Oswald” who visited the Bolton Ford Co. in New Orleans. The man who did visit the dealership with “Joseph Moore” was either another “Oswald” running in the same circles as Gerard Tujague and Guy Banister, or someone falsely claiming to be. If we are to believe it was the latter, at some point a researcher has to ask, How often must someone be impersonated before we begin to look for a different explanation?

Anyone who believes the HSCA conducted an honest investigation has no need to do much further research. For the handwriting issue, see page 243 of Robert Groden's "The Search for Lee Harvey Oswald." It's in the chapter entitled "Too Many Oswalds." If those signatures are all from the same person, I'll eat Groden's entire book!

Ah, but you fail to mention that the professor, Vladimir Petrov, was in the Slavic Languages department of Yale University. According to Encylopaedia Britannica's article on Slavic Languages, Russian is an East Slavic language (there are also west and south Slavic languages). That surely makes his opinion an expert one. You can hardly prove that the phone call the Tippits (no relation to the murdered cop, I think) described to the FBI was a crank call. Nor is it proof that Harvey Oswald had Hungarian roots. It is a possibility, though, which is all we ever suggest. Listen to audio recordings of the "Oswald" killed by Jack Ruby. Does he sound to you like a young man born and raised in the American South?

Rather than rely on Mr. Bojczuk's mischaracterization of our position that Harvey Oswald may have had Hungarian roots, why not examine the EVIDENCE we present here: http://harveyandlee.net/Harvey Who/Harvey_who.htm

Then by all means share this "plentiful evidence" with us!

Hi, W. Tracy; I haven’t heard from you lately! It’s always interesting to hear from people whose total interest in the Kennedy Assassination seems limited to attempts to debunk John Armstrong’s monumental work entitled Harvey and Lee. These critics clearly feel compelled to come around occasionally and again and again declare that their work debunking the Two Oswalds is complete! W. Tracy Parnell and Karl Kinaski are perfect examples of the type of researchers who seem dedicated to saving planet Earth from the Harvey and Lee Menace®, and NOT MUCH ELSE regarding the Kennedy Assassination! And today’s savior for the “We only care about debunking Harvey and Lee” crowd is Prof. Ernst Titovets, who came to America to proclaim, in part, that Harvey Oswald did indeed speak Russian while in the USSR! Remarkably, Mr. Titovets brought audio recordings of “Oswald” with him and, fortunately, he made them available on YouTube for all of us to hear. Let’s listen to a tape allegedly made by three men: “Oswald,” Titovets, and, although it’s a little hard to hear, I think the third person is identified as Pavel Golovachev (the son of a famous Soviet Air Force General). Here is the YouTube presentation a recent correspondent was kind enough to send me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7F2w-9z42E Isn’t it fascinating that in these several audio excerpts, Titovets and Oswald always speak in English. No Russian whatsoever! It sort of makes my point—and supports Anita Ziger’s recollection that Oswald only spoke English, at least around her in Russia. It’s also pretty clear that in Minsk Oswald associated with English-speaking Russians, who I'll bet were relatively rare in the area! If Oswald spoke Russian publicly in the USSR, where are the examples? Anyway, W. Tracy, hope you have a Happy New Year and continue your important work saving America and the world from the scourge of Harvey and Lee! Despite your continuous declarations to the contrary, it’s an increasingly daunting task! I understand its importance, though. Believing that Harvey Oswald understood Russian while in the USSR but pretended he didn’t might make make some people think he was… (gulp)… … A Spy! And we can’t have that kind of thinking, right? PS. As the fellow who sent me the YouTube link above noted, at one point in the audio recording Oswald lamely attempts a Southern drawl. It’s hilarious! And yet, if Harvey Oswald had really grown up with Marguerite, John, and Robert he should have had a natural southern accent. (Robert Oswald still speaks with a heavy drawl.) Priscilla Johnson claimed the “Oswald” she interviewed had a heavy Southern accent. C’mon, W. Tracy, let’s hear those recordings of Oswald speaking Russian in the USSR!

I meant to add one more thing.... Millicent Cranor has written a fascinating article on Titovets, which can be read here. John Armstrong writes that when "Oswald" met Titovets, Titovets was an English-speaking medical student. "Oswald" sought out English-speaking Russians, and received mail--in English--from at least one of them (maybe more, I can't remember) when he returned to the United States.

Hi, Karl…. Haven’t heard from you since the last time you visited here, as always pronouncing the Two Oswalds were dead and buried. Funny how you have to keep doing that so often. Oh well, its good to have a purpose in life, eh? This time around, you declare that since Prof. Ernst Titovets said that “Oswald” spoke Russian while in the USSR, and Anita (Ana) Ziger said he didn’t, this proves beyond a doubt there was only one Oswald. Am I stating your theory correctly? Bear in mind that it is Ms. Ziger, not John Armstrong, who said “Oswald” only spoke English while with her in the USSR. Ana Ziger and her family had a clear relationship with “Oswald,” which is mentioned at least five times in just the Warren Commission Report. Her father, who spoke English, worked closely with “Oswald” at the Minsk Radio plant. Here’s p. 271 from the WCR showing “Oswald” standing next to Ms. Ziger’s friend Alfred. Here’s a photo of “Oswald” and Ms. Ziger together: Ms. Ziger clearly spent time with “Oswald” in the USSR, and her views can hardly be dismissed out of hand. By the 1990s she was living in Buenos Aires, and in 1998 John Armstrong and a friend traveled there to meet with her. During several lengthy interviews, Ana declared that Oswald didn’t speak any Russian and seemed unwilling to learn the language. Which leads us to the conflicting views of Prof. Titovets. He certainly MAY have known “Oswald” in the Soviet Union, though the evidence is not as clear. The highly suspect diary of “Oswald” refers to an “Eraich Titov” once and “Erich” (first name only) two more times. The Warren Commission Report does not refer to “Titovets” at all, but does mention “Erik Titovyets” twice, both apparently references to the “historic diary.” If memory serves, the private Intourist guide Rima Sherikova “Oswald” hired in Moscow indicated he did not seem to speak a word of Russian. Moscow doctors treating the wrist wound from his so-called suicide attempt also wrote that Oswald indicated he did not speak Russian but seemed to understand some of the things said about him in Russian. Since you obviously are interested in trying to debunk the two Oswalds above any other Kennedy research, Karl, if I were you I’d rely on the HSCA volume, 13 maybe, that is devoted to little other than attempting to debunk the two Oswald claim. That would probably work better for you than your latest lame attempt, at least among the government loyalists. Just a helpful suggestion…. Visit the Harvey and Lee Website at HarveyandLee.net

No, I didn't say that quite right. The boxes were tested and they supposedly found some latent prints of "Oswald" on a couple of them (as would be expected since he worked there). But one or more of the prints on the boxes was unidentified, and it was months later before the FBI exhibited much interest on who might have put them there.

TEN REASONS TO BELIEVE IN HARVEY AND LEE 10. The IMPOSSIBLE 1953 school scenario: Harvey at Youth House for truancy followed by Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while Lee has good attendance both semesters at PS 44 in NYC. 9. John Pic's inability to recognize clear photographs of his own brother. 8. The refusal of the Social Security Administration to corroborate the official story of "Oswald's" pre-1962 income, offering instead "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps." 7. The Marine Corps records are a gold mine: my favorite chronicles Harvey Oswald's trip to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan. 6. The Bolton Ford incident while Harvey was in Russia. 5. Marita Lorenz's secret testimony describing Lee Oswald with anti-Castro operatives in Miami and the Everglades while Harvey was in Russia. 4. Lee Oswald visiting the Texas Employment Commission, filling out forms and taking tests, while Harvey was in Russia. 3. The impossible answer(s) to the simple questions: Could Lee Harvey Oswald drive a car? Did he have a drivers license? 2. The well documented appearance of Lee Oswald in the balcony of the Texas Theater soon after the murder of J.D. Tippit with the simultaneous arrest of Harvey Oswald on the main floor of the same theater. 1. The behavior of the FBI in the first 48 hours of the "investigation," during which the Bureau confiscated many of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" school records and teen-aged employment histories. Six months later, the Bureau decided to test for fingerprints on boxes in the so-called "sniper's nest." Visit the Harvey and Lee website at HarveyandLee.net

For better or worse, Federal agencies are nothing if not thorough, and I wouldn’t be surprised if just about everything covered by HTLINGUAL was opened. Some of the docs seem to indicate a number of different agencies involved in the collection, hardly surprising, but if the individual letters opened resulted in the production of some 24,000 reports over a mere dozen years or so, considering the ones that didn't warrant a report there most have been A WHOLE LOT of intercepts! MFF database has 128 pages of “HTLINGUAL Items Relating to the OSWALD Case” starting here: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=55319#relPageId=1&tab=page It all starts out featuring the Neunsons. When time permits, I’m going to try and slog through more of this stuff.

Chris, Geez, probably a small sampling, but it looks as if Angleton was all over this “Hunter” business. Assuming it was related to mail intercepts (and even if it wasn’t), we can make some pretty informed speculation. . . . Citing CIA file # OS-351-164, JA says Angleton was involved with both the Office of Security AND the Counterintellegence section, the two Agency departments that had kept the files on Lee HENRY Oswald since 1960. JA goes on to write, “Following David Atlee Phillips' visit to Washington, DC during the first week of October, 1963, reports on Oswald were-routed to staff D in Miami, which meant that only Angleton’s group and David Phillips received the reports.” (H&L, p. 975) If Angleton DID have photo(s) of Hoover and Tolson dancing in the tulips, he was in a position to have near total control of Federal coverage of “Lee Harvey Oswald” in the weeks prior to the assassination. Funny how trusting these two organizations became that “Oswald” had been rehabilitated at this very time. Newman called this “turning down the lights” on “Oswald.”

The doc linked above has the subject line: Hunter Report # 10816; the previous doc referenced Hunter Project. Assume they are related, eh? Here's a reference to: Project Hunter Report #142: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=8261 The more I think about this, the more likely it seems to me that the FBI and the Agency's... uh... problem with the Neunsons may have had more to do with the Paines than with Marina. For a multitude of reasons, both organizations would want to hide their potential intel affiliations.

Posted 1/30/11 on this forum by Robert Howard: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/15405-frank-olsons-murder/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Walter Carl Neuson, aka Walter Carl Neunson. I chanced upon his name while working on an index of Warren Commission documents, in this case CD 1516 http://www.maryferre...911&relPageId=4 As you can see the Warren Commission Document title spells his name Neuson, but when you read the actual document, it is spelled Neunson; obviously that in itself, doesen't have significance, but it does if there is an underlying area that is being muted. Adding to the strange atmosphere of all of this is the fact that an HSCA Administrative File has the following passage ADMIN FOLDER-X6: HSCA ADMINISTRATIVE FOLDER, CIA REPORTS LHO pg 49 Found in: FBI - HSCA Administrative Folders NOTE Classified "Secret as this refers-to-Project Hunter which is so classified by CIA Neunson an SI subject of Newark told Ruth Paine some time after the assassination that his son Edward met RIF#: 124-10369-10063 (10/19/67) FBI#: 62-117290-ADMIN FOLDER-X6 http://www.maryferre...17&relPageId=49 The mary ferrell database has this entry NEUNSON, WALTER CARL Sources: CD 1516; CD 1546, pp. 220-249 Mary's Comments: He wrote letter to Ruth Paine 11/28/63 offering Marina Oswald a home in New Jersey; claimed his son, Edward, had met Marina; Marina remembered young man named Edward in Leningrad November 7 or 8, 1960. I will forewarn anyone who has the inclination to dig into this obscurity, that the subject matter encompasses a wide swath of names and places, and there is the obvious reminder of a slip-up Marina made when she was interviewed at one time regarding her husband when she got a little confused and started reciting the history of Robert Edward Webster and the Rand Corporation, instead of Lee Harvey Oswald, who, as far as the historical record goes had never had one iota of association with the RAND corporation, at least not in official documents I am aware of. But don't take my word for any of the latter, you can read it for yourself courtesy of John Armstrong. See Harvey and Lee pages 256-259 there you will find all sorts of interesting Marina tales, these I personally are part of the real Marina Oswald account of what was really going on in Mother Russia, that the Warren Commission, and the HSCA for that matter, was not too excited about jumping into. more Marina and Ambassador to Afghanistan Christopher Bird -RAND Corporation Robert Edward Webster See http://www.maryferre....do?docId=16791 There are a myriad of documents [62 actually] at NARA under the subject HUNTER REPORT http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/1609/jfksnew.txt when searching NARA under "PROJECT HUNTER" there is only one hit Posted 1/30/11 on this forum by Robert Howard:104-10438-10067 MEMO:PROJECT HUNTER REPORT #142 http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=8261 ......references Boris Waldemar Karapitnitzsky with aliases with the subject line reading ERROR -- COULD NOT LOCATE SUBJECT TERM! It would not be out of the question to wonder if ALL of the headings under Hunter Report originally read "PROJECT HUNTER" It would be very helpful to getting to a clearer picture of what was really going on "Back in The U.S.S.R," is convincing Messr. Armstrong to publish an "English" interview of the Zieger's that was conducted by Ignacio Zuleta circa 1995.... And I say that with all due respect for John......Posted 1/30/11 on this forum by Robert Howard: The time for erasing the speedbumps has arrived. So far, I've had even less luck than Mr. Howard in finding out much about Project Hunter, but it MAY be the Hunter referenced in the FBI report(s) on Neunson, and I'd sure like to know what it was.

Yeah, but it was SOP only for witnesses and others who didn’t support the Official Cover-up®. Another perfect example was Ralph Yates, whose story of the second Oswald or Oswald impostor or whatever you want to call him hitch-hiking with “curtain rods” threatened to blow the cover on the whole elaborate set-up of the patsy. So Yates got the “treatment.” I think there’s even a memo from Hoover or some FBI honcho calling for him to be “completely discredited,” or something like that. The point I was trying to make is that it would appear that several Neunsons were getting that same “treatment,” which may well mean they knew something Hoover didn’t want known. As a complete guess, I’d speculate it was something strongly suggesting Marina had Soviet intel ties, something that needed to be suppressed to kill the Cuba/USSR connection to the assassination that Phillips and others had worked so hard to establish, and that some people are STILL TRYING TO PUSH TODAY! Thanks very much for pointing out this Neunson angle. I wonder if there is anything more that could be discovered about it. I’m going to try to find the translation of what appears from the airtel to be Exhibit D-248.

The evidence against David Atlee Phillips as a planner of JFK’s assassination is pretty substantial. He was responsible for much of the bs. coming out of Mexico City attempting to link “Oswald” with Castro and thus use the alleged assassin to provoke an invasion of Cuba. Dan Hardway said, "I'm firmly convinced that he [Phillips] ran the red-herring, disinformation aspects of the plot. The thing that got him so nervous was when I started mentioning all the anti-Castro Cubans who were in reports filed with the FBI for the Warren Commission and every one of them had a tie I could trace back to him.'' His meeting with “Oswald” witnessed by Mr. Veciana is pretty well known to everyone. What few people consider, though, is the frequent communication (including on November 22, 1963) between Jack Ruby and Gordon McLendon of KLIF in Dallas. McLendon was a life-long friend and associate of Phillips. Add Phillips’ name to the likes of Hunt, Sturgis, Angleton, and probably Shackley, Harvey, and even, perhaps, Helms and Dulles, and you have quite a little collection of CIA folks who seem to be involved in the whole sordid mess. I suspect some military people and a handful of civilians were involved as well, but the links are harder to find. Others here know more about that than I do. Mr. Trejo will undoubtedly explain how I, like Dan Hardway and so many others, are completely confused about the fine people in the CIA in 1963.

This is interesting, not only for Marina’s apparent contact with Edward Neunson, but also for the CIA and FBI efforts to paint the Neunson family as fruitcakes unworthy of anything but a cursory look. The airtel Chris linked above refers to Walter Neunson as a "mental case." There are a couple of docs from the Armstrong collection at Baylor that might be of interest: The Federal Register v.31 #212 of 11/1/1966 lists, in a final, final list of “Oswald’s Possessions,” item D263: D263. One-page handwritten letter dated 11-28-63 to Mrs. Ruth Paine from “Walter Neunson.” This list apparently was made after the FBI expanded the DPD list following the secret xfer of the “possessions” to and from DC. For example, a “Minox camera obtained from Ruth Paine” is listed. There’s also this:

The RFK, Jr. interview with Rose may have been suppressed, but his opinion about the assassination of JFK is now pretty clear. I only have the first edition of James Douglass’s book, but a correspondent has told me that the revised edition has the following blurb from RFK, Jr. on the dust jacket: In JFK and the Unspeakable Jim Douglass has distilled all the best available research into a very well-documented and convincing portrait of President Kennedy's transforming turn to peace, at the cost of his life. Personally, it has made a very big impact on me. After reading it in Dallas, I was moved for the first time to visit Dealey Plaza. I urge all Americans to read this book and come to their own conclusions about why he died and why -- after fifty years -- it still matters. – Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Still, it sure would be nice to have the interview with Rose released. Perhaps some television technician would consider it a patriotic act to post it somewhere. FREE THE RFK, JR. VIDEO!

YIKES! I try to keep up, but this is Big News to me. There are references all over the net about RFK Jr. saying his dad suspected "rogue CIA" agents of killing JFK. I've done some searching, but can anyone point me to a video of RFK Jr. directly talking about "rogue CIA" agents and the death of JFK?

21 Facts Indicating ”Lee Harvey Oswald” was a CIA Agent (New entries in red) 1. CIA accountant James Wilcott said he made payments to an encrypted account for “Oswald or the Oswald Project.” 2. Antonio Veciana said he saw LHO meeting with CIA’s Maurice Bishop/David Atlee Phillips in Dallas in August 1963. 3. A 1978 CIA memo indicates that a CIA operations officer “had run an agent into the USSR, that man having met a Russian girl and eventually marrying her,” a case very similar to Oswald’s and clearly indicating that the Agency ran a “false defector” program in the 1950s. 4. Robert Webster and LHO "defected" a few months apart in 1959, both tried to "defect" on a Saturday, both possessed "sensitive" information of possible value to the Russians, both were befriended by Marina Prusakova, and both returned to the United States in the spring of 1962. 5. Richard Sprague, Richard Schweiker, and CIA agents Donald Norton and Joseph Newbrough all said LHO was associated with the CIA. 6. CIA employee Donald Deneslya said he read reports of a CIA agent who had worked at a radio factory in Minsk and returned to the US with a Russian wife and child. 7. Kenneth Porter, employee of CIA-connected Collins Radio, left his family to marry (and no doubt monitor) Marina Oswald after LHO’s death. 8. George Joannides, case officer and paymaster for DRE (which LHO had attempted to infiltrate) was put in charge of lying to the HSCA and never told them of his relationship to DRE. 9. For his achievements, Joannides was given a medal by the CIA. 10. FBI took Oswald off the watch list at the same time a CIA cable gave him a clean bill of political health, weeks after Oswald’s New Orleans arrest and less than two months before the assassination. 11. Oswald’s lengthy “Lives of Russian Workers” essay reads like a pretty good intelligence report. 12. Oswald’s possessions were searched for microdots. 13. Oswald owned an expensive Minox spy camera, which the FBI tried to make disappear. 14. Even the official cover story of the radar operator near American U-2 planes defecting to Russia, saying he would give away all his secrets, and returning home without penalty smells like a spy story. 15. CIA Richard Case Nagell clearly knew about the plot to assassinate JFK and LHO’s relation to it, but the CIA ignored his warnings. 16. LHO always seemed poor as a church mouse, until it was time to go “on assignment.” For his Russian adventure, we’re to believe he saved all the money he needed for first class European hotels and private tour guides in Moscow from the non-convertible USMC script he saved. In the summer of 1963, he once again seemed to have enough money to travel abroad to Communist nations. 17. To this day, the CIA claims it never interacted with Oswald, that it didn’t even bother debriefing him after the “defection.” What utter bs…. 18. After he “defected” to the Soviet Union in 1959, bragging to U.S. embassy personnel in Moscow that he would tell the Russians everything he knew about U.S. military secrets, he returns to the U.S. without punishment and is then in 1963 given the OK to travel to Cuba and the Soviet Union again! 19. Allen Dulles, the CIA director fired by JFK, and the Warren Commission clearly wanted the truth hidden from the public to protect sources and methods of intelligence agencies such as the CIA. Earl Warren said, “Full disclosure was not possible for reasons of national security.” 20. In 1978, the government of Cuba announced that “Lee Harvey Oswald” was a “CIA AGENT.” 21. President Kennedy and the CIA clearly were at war with each other in the weeks immediately before his assassination, and “Oswald” was the CIA’s pawn.

20 Facts Indicating “Lee Harvey Oswald” was a CIA Agent (New entries in red) 1. CIA accountant James Wilcott said he made payments to an encrypted account for “Oswald or the Oswald Project.” 2. Antonio Veciana said he saw LHO meeting with CIA’s Maurice Bishop/David Atlee Phillips in Dallas in August 1963. 3. A 1978 CIA memo indicates that a CIA operations officer “had run an agent into the USSR, that man having met a Russian girl and eventually marrying her,” a case very similar to Oswald’s and clearly indicating that the Agency ran a “false defector” program in the 1950s. 4. Robert Webster and LHO "defected" a few months apart in 1959, both tried to "defect" on a Saturday, both possessed "sensitive" information of possible value to the Russians, both were befriended by Marina Prusakova, and both returned to the United States in the spring of 1962. 5. Richard Sprague, Richard Schweiker, and CIA agents Donald Norton and Joseph Newbrough all said LHO was associated with the CIA. 6. CIA employee Donald Deneslya said he read reports of a CIA agent who had worked at a radio factory in Minsk and returned to the US with a Russian wife and child. 7. Kenneth Porter, employee of CIA-connected Collins Radio, left his family to marry (and no doubt monitor) Marina Oswald after LHO’s death. 8. George Joannides, case officer and paymaster for DRE (which LHO had attempted to infiltrate) was put in charge of lying to the HSCA and never told them of his relationship to DRE. 9. For his achievements, Joannides was given a medal by the CIA. 10. FBI took Oswald off the watch list at the same time a CIA cable gave him a clean bill of political health, weeks after Oswald’s New Orleans arrest and less than two months before the assassination. 11. Oswald’s lengthy “Lives of Russian Workers” essay reads like a pretty good intelligence report. 12. Oswald’s possessions were searched for microdots. 13. Oswald owned an expensive Minox spy camera, which the FBI tried to make disappear. 14. Even the official cover story of the radar operator near American U-2 planes defecting to Russia, saying he would give away all his secrets, and returning home without penalty smells like a spy story. 15. CIA Richard Case Nagell clearly knew about the plot to assassinate JFK and LHO’s relation to it, but the CIA ignored his warnings. 16. LHO always seemed poor as a church mouse, until it was time to go “on assignment.” For his Russian adventure, we’re to believe he saved all the money he needed for first class European hotels and private tour guides in Moscow from the non-convertible USMC script he saved. In the summer of 1963, he once again seemed to have enough money to travel abroad to Communist nations. 17. To this day, the CIA claims it never interacted with Oswald, that it didn’t even bother debriefing him after the “defection.” What utter bs…. 18. After he “defected” to the Soviet Union in 1959, bragging to U.S. embassy personnel in Moscow that he would tell the Russians everything he knew about U.S. military secrets, he returns to the U.S. without punishment and is then in 1963 given the OK to travel to Cuba and the Soviet Union again! 19. Allen Dulles, the CIA director fired by JFK, and the Warren Commission clearly wanted the truth hidden from the public to protect sources and methods of intelligence agencies such as the CIA. Earl Warren said, “Full disclosure was not possible for reasons of national security.” 20. President Kennedy and the CIA clearly were at war with each other in the weeks immediately before his assassination, and “Oswald” was the CIA’s pawn. Sorry for the repeat, but I'd like to keep the above post up at least once on every page of this thread. This is the subject matter under discussion here. I'll try to get a thread going on Marina's truthiness asap after Thanksgiving.

That computes to very roughly three unique documents per day! Surely our DCI tax dollars generated more paper “memos, letters, minutes…, chronologies and related files” than that! My guess is many are missing and gone forever, but I still hope the CIA can find some server space and toner and get this project moving again.

Well, Paul, I don’t pretend to know everything about secret CIA operations at the height of the Cold War, and so I can only speculate based on the evidence available. To me, though, the points you make above sound entirely consistent with someone posing as a disaffected American youth dissatisfied with our economic system trying to assimilate his disgruntled self into a Communist society. He might easily accept his meager lifestyle between foreign assignments if, as Sandy Larsen suggested, a deferred payoff was promised after his spy work was completed. As for his English grammar skills, they have always seemed consistent to me with someone who was as comfortable—or more so--speaking and writing Russian as English. See all those Russian-language writings of his scattered around the WC volumes. And see the considerable evidence, including the broad outlines of the Official Story®, suggesting he was just what he seemed to be--a CIA agent. And by the way, the only real evidence that "Oswald" shot at General Walker was supplied by Marina and Ruth Paine, both highly suspect for most CTers--except you!

If you will recall, Paul, I responded to your 15 inaccurate responses to my 15 points and then you ran away and started demanding all sorts of answers about Marina's truthiness or lack thereof. This is a thread about "Lee Harvey Oswald" and the CIA. Why don't you try answering the issues you keep dodging by trying to change the subject to Marina and General Walker. Here are your original responses. My replies are in red. Still waiting for your replies. -------------------------------------------------------- (My responses are in red.) 1. CIA accountant James Wilcott admitted that his opinion was based on rumors by field agents. James just took their word for it. He was not a field agent, and knew nothing other than what the field agents told him -- and they teased him. Mr. Wilcott testified just the opposite to what you say above: Mr. Preyer. That was shop talk, speculation, I gather; people were saying that the CIA is somehow connected with it. Mr. Wilcott. Well, I believed it to be a little more than speculation, that the source at least of this kind of talk was, I believe, to be something more serious than speculation. Mr. Preyer. It was your conclusion from that talk that some of these people might have knowledge that he was a CIA agent rather than that they were speculating about it? Mr. Wilcott. Yes, sir. Mr. Preyer. And you did mention the case officer who came in and told you that the money he had drawn out a few weeks earlier was drawn out for Oswald? Mr. Wilcott. Yes, sir. Mr. Preyer. He stated that as a fact and not that he believed it was drawn out for Oswald or it could have been or something like that? Mr. Wilcott. It was stated as a fact -- Oswald or the Oswald project. 2. Antonio Veciana did see LHO in a meeting with CIA’s Maurice Bishop/David Atlee Phillips in Dallas in August 1963 -- in the context of killing Fidel Castro. That's what Alpha-66 was set up to do. They had no other purpose. David Atlee Phillips describes this Kill-Fidel project and LHO's involvement in his 1988 manuscript, "The AMLASH Legacy." Only you would believe anything Phillips had to say. Soon after the Phillips/Oswald meeting, the framing of the “Oswald” killed by Jack Ruby began in earnest in and around Dallas. The Phillips/Oswald meeting is further proof that Oswald was an agent. 3. Robert Webster and LHO were only two of scores of fake defectors to the USSR in 1959. This was revealed by former CIA Agent Victor Marchetti, who said it was an ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence) "dangle" operation. It was for beginners. When LHO was recruited for this beginner's mission, he was still 19 years old (and a high-school dropout, and could not drive a car, and could hardly spell). LHO was being "tested." I did a quick web search and found several CIA-affiliated people who were with the Agency by the age of 20. You should have no trouble doing the same thing. By your account David Atlee Phillips was impressed enough with “Oswald’s” test to meet with him in Dallas in 1963. 4. All of the HSCA leaders, including Richard Sprague, Richard Schweiker, and CIA agents Donald Norton and Joseph Newbrough had nothing but their opinions to offer. They were not allowed to see the thousands of JFK documents that the US Government kept secret in the 1970's. All they could do was guess. Their opinion was no more valid than the average Congressman – useless. That’s your opinion. I believe the men listed above were far closer to the actual events being discussed here than you were. 5. Donald Deneslya read a lot of things. As Marchetti said, there were scores of fake defectors to the USSR in that program. It is certainly possible that many of them got married in Russia. They worked all over Russia. Donald made no positive identification. Deneslya said he read reports of a CIA agent who had worked at a radio factory in Minsk and returned to the US with a Russian wife and child. Are you suggesting there was a different CIA agent who had worked at a radio factory in Minsk and returned to the US with a Russian wife and child? 6. Kenneth Porter, worked for Collins Radio -- and some people try to force this into a CIA plot. Porter fell in love with Marina Oswald -- and some people try to make this into a CIA plot. It's naked fiction -- intended to sell books. Sure… Here’s what one those books written to tell the truth says: Collins Radio was located at 1200 North Alma Road in Richardson, Texas and held major communications contracts for the military and CIA, including the installation of communications towers in Vietnam. On November 1, 1963 the New York Times published a photo of a ship named the "Rex"and a story involving commandos that were sent ashore from the ship in Cuba on October 22-23, 1963. The Commandos were captured on a Cuban beach with high-powered sniper rifles and admitted they had been trained by the CIA to kill Cuban leaders. The "Rex" was leased to Collins Radio of Richardson, Texas. (Harvey and Lee, pp. 872-873.) 7. George Joannides, case officer and paymaster for DRE (which LHO had attempted to infiltrate) was hired by the CIA to lie to the HSCA. Big deal -- *everybody* in the US Government lied to the HSCA. This is because the HSCA was merely Congress, and it was a Presidential mandate by LBJ in 1964 (along with Earl Warren, J. Edgar Hoover and Allen Dulles) that the true JFK Records be sealed for 75 years. No act of Congress could change that. The Cold War with the USSR was still raging. Hey, you’re like the guy who gets pulled over for speeding and then tells the cop, “but everyone else was speeding too.” Do you expect that defense to work better here than in traffic court? The fact remains that the CIA put a fellow in charge of lying to the HSCA who had specialized knowledge—that he kept to himself—about “Lee Harvey Oswald.” 8. FBI took Oswald off the watch list in 1962, and so did the State Department. Hosty tried to put LHO back on the FBI watch list in early 1963, and failed. It was LHO himself who put himself back on in August 1963 in New Orleans in connection with the FPCC. But as Hoover and Belmont testified to the Warren Commission -- LHO never at any time showed any signs of political violence. Because of that crucial fact, the FBI took LHO off of their watch list in October. The CIA had nothing to do with it. Any shenannigans belonged to James Hosty alone. The fact remains that the FBI and the CIA—at exactly the same time just weeks before the assassination—made clear efforts to diminish Federal monitoring of “Lee Harvey Oswald.” And you, apparently, find nothing suspicious about this. 9. Oswald’s lengthy “Lives of Russian Workers” essay is dry writing, and he probably didn't write it alone. He usually had at least one misspelled word for each sentence, and the spelling in this essay is very good -- so somebody else helped him. LHO was a CIA wannabe. He was trying like mad to get their attention -- but he just wasn't smart enough. Proof: LHO became a Patsy. I agree someone helped him. After all, English wasn’t Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald’s primary language. But it is a fine report, and was surely of considerable interest for intelligence agencies at the time who wanted to learn more about the life of Russian workers. 10. Oswald’s possessions were searched for microdots because like a fool he included the word, "microdots" in his diary and personal papers. Nothing was found. If memory serves, there were some individual letters cut out of some of “Oswald’s” writings. Perhaps to remove microdots? Your lack of suspicion about “Oswald” as an intelligence agent is stunning! 11. Oswald owned an expensive Minox spy camera; like many Private Detectives and other spy wannabes. The FBI mucked with all JFK evidence, starting on 11/22/1963, because of J. Edgar Hoover's order that everything must fit a "Lone Nut" scenario. This was for National Security purposes. Nobody denies that anymore. But the fact remains that owning a “spy camera” is hardly an indication that you are not a spy, eh? 12. The official cover story of LHO was explained fully by former CIA agent Victor Marchetti. LHO was a trainee "dangle" in the USSR. Amazing, then, that the CIA worked so hard to distance itself from him, and that David Atlee Phillips met with him a few weeks before the assassination, and that George Joannides, a CIA agent who should have had specialized knowledge about “Oswald,” was hired by the CIA to lie to the HSCA and hide his specialized knowledge of Oswald, and on and on. 13. CIA agent Richard Case Nagell was a double-agent and was neurotic as they come. Anything he said had to be taken with a grain of salt. Everybody who ever interviewed him admitted that -- even Dick Russell. That’s all irrelevant. All you have to do was look at the verifiable evidence of his case. 14. LHO was always poor as a church mouse in the USA. In the USSR however, in addition to his low radio factory salary, he got an equal amount from the Red Cross -- so that his salary was the same as a manager's salary. Also, LHO was allowed to stay in a new apartment complex in Minsk, which was reserved for privileged people. This was one reason Marina fell in love with LHO. In the spring of 1962, the State Department called LHO's mother and demanded that she search for funds to pay LHO's way back to the USA. Marguerite Oswald made a sweeping fund raising tour to beg for money. She came up empty-handed. The State Department, out of compassion, loaned the cash to LHO. Back in the USA, LHO again became as poor as a church-mouse. Wrong. LHO was staying at first class hotels on the way to Moscow and during his first days in Moscow. He also hired expensive private tourist guides at the very beginning of his stay. 15. It simply isn't the CIA standard operating procedure to bypass the State Department. LHO never defected. LHO never became a USSR citizen. Naturally, then, LHO could never join the KGB. The State Department grilled LHO for that, and gave him a clean bill of health. Also, when LHO returned to the USA, the FBI took charge of LHO, and debriefed LHO two times, and gave him a clean bill of health. You make it sound like the CIA had nothing better to do in the Cold War than to watch LHO. There were already enough people watching LHO. It's a fact. You sure talk as if you know a lot about the CIA. Why didn’t you know about the “family jewels?” To this day, the CIA claims it never interacted with Oswald, that it didn’t even bother debriefing him after the “defection.” What utter bs….

20 Facts Indicating “Lee Harvey Oswald” was a CIA Agent (New entries in red) 1. CIA accountant James Wilcott said he made payments to an encrypted account for “Oswald or the Oswald Project.” 2. Antonio Veciana said he saw LHO meeting with CIA’s Maurice Bishop/David Atlee Phillips in Dallas in August 1963. 3. A 1978 CIA memo indicates that a CIA operations officer “had run an agent into the USSR, that man having met a Russian girl and eventually marrying her,” a case very similar to Oswald’s and clearly indicating that the Agency ran a “false defector” program in the 1950s. 4. Robert Webster and LHO "defected" a few months apart in 1959, both tried to "defect" on a Saturday, both possessed "sensitive" information of possible value to the Russians, both were befriended by Marina Prusakova, and both returned to the United States in the spring of 1962. 5. Richard Sprague, Richard Schweiker, and CIA agents Donald Norton and Joseph Newbrough all said LHO was associated with the CIA. 6. CIA employee Donald Deneslya said he read reports of a CIA agent who had worked at a radio factory in Minsk and returned to the US with a Russian wife and child. 7. Kenneth Porter, employee of CIA-connected Collins Radio, left his family to marry (and no doubt monitor) Marina Oswald after LHO’s death. 8. George Joannides, case officer and paymaster for DRE (which LHO had attempted to infiltrate) was put in charge of lying to the HSCA and never told them of his relationship to DRE. 9. For his achievements, Joannides was given a medal by the CIA. 10. FBI took Oswald off the watch list at the same time a CIA cable gave him a clean bill of political health, weeks after Oswald’s New Orleans arrest and less than two months before the assassination. 11. Oswald’s lengthy “Lives of Russian Workers” essay reads like a pretty good intelligence report. 12. Oswald’s possessions were searched for microdots. 13. Oswald owned an expensive Minox spy camera, which the FBI tried to make disappear. 14. Even the official cover story of the radar operator near American U-2 planes defecting to Russia, saying he would give away all his secrets, and returning home without penalty smells like a spy story. 15. CIA Richard Case Nagell clearly knew about the plot to assassinate JFK and LHO’s relation to it, but the CIA ignored his warnings. 16. LHO always seemed poor as a church mouse, until it was time to go “on assignment.” For his Russian adventure, we’re to believe he saved all the money he needed for first class European hotels and private tour guides in Moscow from the non-convertible USMC script he saved. In the summer of 1963, he once again seemed to have enough money to travel abroad to Communist nations. 17. To this day, the CIA claims it never interacted with Oswald, that it didn’t even bother debriefing him after the “defection.” What utter bs…. 18. After he “defected” to the Soviet Union in 1959, bragging to U.S. embassy personnel in Moscow that he would tell the Russians everything he knew about U.S. military secrets, he returns to the U.S. without punishment and is then in 1963 given the OK to travel to Cuba and the Soviet Union again! 19. Allen Dulles, the CIA director fired by JFK, and the Warren Commission clearly wanted the truth hidden from the public to protect sources and methods of intelligence agencies such as the CIA. Earl Warren said, “Full disclosure was not possible for reasons of national security.” 20. President Kennedy and the CIA clearly were at war with each other in the weeks immediately before his assassination, and “Oswald” was the CIA’s pawn.