Jim Hargrove

Larry, That’s interesting. According to the 1978 Earl Golz story (see below), a Ruby attorney told a WC investigator that the prisoners “had a good view of what took place.” Do you know anything about that?

Bart, Yes, I think you're correct. Thanks. After looking at the testimony again, it seems like Bob Jackson referred Dillard to the sixth floor window, and Dillard saw the men in the window below it.

I wouldn't dismiss this so quickly. Tom Dillard was the top news photographer for the Dallas Morning News, and he testified as follows: Mr. BALL - How many forms did you see in the window below? Mr. DILLARD - I saw two men in the windows, at least the arched windows. I saw them in my picture. I was making the picture my eyes were covering. Mr. BALL - You saw them as you were taking the picture? Mr. DILLARD - I may have; I don't know. Mr. BALL - Do you remember if you saw two or three figures? Mr. DILLARD - I don't remember. Mr. BALL - But you did see some figures and you can not be accurate? Mr. DILLARD - Right.

Interesting little piece, in which a man claims his father took a photo of two men in the TSBD sixth floor window about the time of the hit. The photo, he says, disappeared after it was given to a Canadian newspaper in 1964. Many Dealey Plaza witnesses said they saw two men in the window, among them Charles L. Bronson, Carolyn Walter, Ruby Henderson, Dallas Morning News photographer Tom Dillard, and many inmates on the 5th floor of the County Jail, including Johnny L. Powell who said, “Quite a few of us jail inmates saw two men in the 6th floor window of the Book Depository. Everybody was trying to watch the parade and all that. We were looking across the street at the Book Depository because it was directly straight across. The first thing I thought is, it was security guards .... I remember the guys."

DJ, Thank you for providing so much more evidence that the Magic Money Order® was bogus. In my arguments, I had completely forgotten about the stub that should have been in evidence but wasn’t, as well as the evidence that the money order was allegedly discovered in both Kansas City and Alexandria. Amazing! We both know how guilty Harry Holmes now looks. For example, Holmes was the only man in the known universe who alleged he heard Oswald say he had traveled to Mexico City shortly before the assassination of JFK. And what is a Postal Inspector/FBI informant doing in Dallas police headquarters immediately after the assassination there of a sitting US president anyway? Thanks again for your work!

MORE AND MORE MAGIC! Nearly two decades ago, John Armstrong noticed that the U.S. Postal Money Order allegedly used to pay for the 6.5 Carcano that allegedly killed JFK was apparently uncashed and undeposited, without being stamped with any bank endorsement whatsoever. On page 467 of Harvey and Lee, John wrote: The information that a Secret Service agent hand carried the original money order to Dallas came from Harry Holmes. As we have seen, this did not happen and was yet another of Holmes' fabrications. Copies of the money order were sent to Dallas but the original uncashed and undeposited money order was turned over to the FBI laboratory. [H&L, p. 467] Starting on November 12, 2015, Sandy Larsen began this very thread, and, a few days later, Sandy posted his finished proof that current Federal regulations in effect in 1963 required that sending bank endorsements and ABA transit numbers had to be stamped on BOTH SIDES of various financial documents, including U.S. Postal Money Orders. Sandy’s proof is HERE. Since it lacked the necessary endorsements but included a file locator number supposedly printed on the document after being returned to USPS from other financial institutions, the money order clearly became MAGICAL! A number of WC loyalists have tried over the years to debunk Sandy’s proof, all without success, though they will claim otherwise. Now, let’s consider if the Magic Money Order® was just an inexplicable anomaly in an otherwise solid case by the FBI that the 6.5 Carcano was owned by Oswald. According to the Dallas police chief, the FBI indicated to him just hours after the assassination that it was DEFINITELY Oswald’s handwriting on a March 20, 1963 order for a $12.78 rifle with optical scope from Klein’s. This is strange, because according to documents now at the National Archives, in the early morning hours of 11/23/63 FBI agents at Klein’s offices in Chicago found microfilm evidence that a $21.95 rifle similar to the rifle allegedly found in the TSBD had been paid for with a postal money order issued March 20, 1963. The microfilm containing that evidence was immediately sent to Washington, DC, despite the fact that conflicting “evidence” from the FBI indicates the microfilm was placed in a safe at Klein’s offices in Chicago as well as in a safety deposit box at LaSalle National Bank in Chicago. According to the Warren Commission, however, neither the $12.78 rifle ordered in Oswald’s handwriting on March 20, nor the $21.95 rifle also ordered on March 20 according to Klein’s records, was the rifle found in the Book Depository. That rifle, the FBI eventually announced, was actually a $21.45 Carcano ordered on March 12. Amazingly, it turned out that this earlier order was ALSO in Oswald’s handwriting. Clearly, the rifles also had become magical; the Magic Rifle® was paid for with a Magic Money Order®. But the magic doesn’t end there. As most of us know, the Magic Rifle was alleged to have fired the infamous Magic Bullet® that allegedly caused all those injuries in President Kennedy and Governor Connally without the enduring the usual damage to similar bullets causing even lesser injuries. There are two possible conclusions here. Either there was an enormous cover-up involving the weapon that allegedly was used to assassinate President Kennedy, or a Magic Money Order® was used to purchase a Magic Rifle®, which in turn fired a Magic Bullet® in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963. Do you believe in magic?

See.... Oswald Did NOT Purchase a Pistol from Seaport Traders

J. Edgar Hoover wasn’t stupid, although he did make a dumb mistake reading the Klein’s ad for the $12.78 rifle, which he thought included a scope. There is a reason, though, that it took a week after announcing it was Oswald’s handwriting on the March 20 order for the $12.78 rifle before the Magic Handwriting® could be transferred to documents supporting the final story (which, of course, was that the rifle cost $21.45 and was ordered on March 12). Hoover had to get at least a working grasp on the bogus “documentation” for the Magic Rifle®, and the key was the Magic Money Order®. The key is in a summary document sent to J. Lee Rankin in January 1964 by the Chief Inspector of the U.S. Post Office, Henry B. Montague. Here is page 2 of that summary (Commission No. 296). The March 20 money order for $21.95 was probably located by Postal authorities, who must have determined that it wasn’t originated by Oswald/Hidell. Therefore, an all new money order was needed to incriminate the Designated Patsy, which could easily be done with U.S. Post Office equipment. Nearly impossible, however, would be the creation of legitimate bank endorsements and ABA transit numbers, which is why none appear on the Magic Money Order. The rest was relatively easy.

The FBI did whatever was necessary to convict the silenced patsy and cover it's own rear end, including altering witness testimony, and destroying, fabricating, and altering evidence. The FBI’s malfeasance in this case was legion and is well known by most members of this forum. The short (3 minute) YouTube video below demonstrates quite clearly how the FBI altered the observations of three critical Dealey Plaza witnesses who believed shots may have been taken at JFK from outside of the Texas School Book Depository, thus contradicting the official story. The FBI went to extraordinary lengths to suppress evidence of what CIA accountant James Wilcott called the “Oswald Project,” including sending out agents within hours of the assassination to confiscate original school and teen-aged employment records of “Lee Harvey Oswald.” In the wee hours of the night of Nov 22-23, 1963, the FBI secretly took “Oswald's Possessions” from the Dallas Police Department, transported them to Washington, D.C. altered them, and then secretly returned them to Dallas, only to publicly send them to Washington. D.C. a few days later. Among a great many other alterations, a Minox “spy camera” became a Minox “light meter.” Tax records, not found by Dallas police who said they initialed each scrap of paper, magically appeared without DPD initials. FBI agent James Cadigan inadvertently spilled the bean about the secret transfer during his sworn WC testimony, which was altered by the WC. The FBI falsified so much testimony that it even had a process in place for routinely doing so, including over the objections of Warren Commission attorneys. For more about how the FBI altered evidence, see this link: Manipulated, Fabricated, and Disappearing Evidence

Well, he’ll probably just continue to wave Waldman 7 around and tell us how trustworthy the FBI was in this case. (Interesting, though, that the Bureau worked so hard to hide the fact it had confiscated Klein’s microfilm—preferring to let people believe it was safely locked away at Klein’s!) That’s how they had the opportunity to alter the documents. Nice write-up on the Magic Bullet®, by the way. A lot of magic seems to appear in this thread, but I do prefer magical thinking to thoughts of institutional corruption and cover-ups on a massive scale, don’t you?

Klein,s business records show that it microfilmed the method of payment received for mail order merchandise. And Klein's personnel in fact DID help FBI agents locate microfilm about a rifle, but it was for a different rifle than the one allegedly found on the sixth floor of the Book Depository! For 7 hours in the early morning of 11/23/63 FBI Agents Dolan, Toedt, and Mahan reviewed Klein's microfilm records on two separate machines. They were trying to locate the identity of the person who purchased C2766 (supposedly Oswald/Hidell). These agents apparently found documentation on Klein's microfilm relating to the sale of a 6.5 Italian rifle, similar to the rifle found on the 6th floor of the TSBD, but this was not the rifle found on the 6th floor of the TSBD. This rifle was apparently sold by Klein's in late March, 1963, and paid for with a $21.95 postal money order issued on March 20, 1963. (The copy of the Magic Money Order® currently in the National Archives was issued March 12, 1963 and was for $21.45--not $21.95.) The following morning the FBI advised the Secret Service, and FBI informant/US postal inspector Harry Holmes, that a rifle similar to that found in the snipers nest had been sold by Kleins for $21.95 and was paid for with a postal money order issued on March 20, 1963 (CD 296). This information could only have come from the Klein's microfilm. This was probably the only information found on the Klein's microfilm by the FBI agents. If these agents found Oswald/Hidell's purchase of C2766 on the microfilm for $21.45, then they would have advised the Secret Service, the Dallas Police, Harry Holmes, and the press of their finding. But they didn't. And if they had found Oswald/Hidell's purchase of C2766 on the microfilm for $21.45, then they should have so testified before the Warren Commission. But they didn't. A few hours later SA Dolan took the original roll of Klein's microfilm and boarded United Airlines flight #846 at 11:40 am for Washington, DC. The original roll of Klein's microfilm remained in FBI custody and was not seen again by Waldman until he testified before the Warren Commission on May 20, 1964. Someone within the FBI realized that their possession of Klein's microfilm could allow critics to claim that the FBI had an opportunity to alter the microfilm. The FBI solved this problem by fabricating reports that created the "illusion" that Klein's microfilm remained at the Klein's office in Chicago. The following FBI report, backdated to November 23 (2nd page of report by SA Dolan, Toedt, Mahan; 11/23/63), states "reel of microfilm was placed by Mr. Waldman in a sealed envelope in a safe in his control. He advised that same would be maintained in his control only as long as desired." To further create the "illusion" that the microfilm remained with Kleins, the FBI created a second memo on February 3, 1964. This memo is from the SAC in Chicago to FBI Director Hoover and states, "Enclosed herewith is one reel of microfilm of various business transactions of Klein's Sporting Goods....This exhibit was obtained from the LaSalle National Bank Safety Deposit Box on 2/3/64 by ASAC William Welte and SA Dennis Shanahan for this submission. Both FBI reports are fabrications. We know, from numerous FBI reports and Waldman's and Scibor's WC testimony, that the microfilm never remained at Kleins, nor was it placed in a safety deposit box at LaSalle National Bank. On 11/23/63 Waldman gave the microfilm to SA Dolan, was given a receipt for the microfilm, and within hours SA Dolan hand delivered the microfilm to FBI headquarters in Washington, DC. The following FBI memo may give the appearance that the original microfilm was kept in a safe at Klein's business office, but this is not the truth. Within hours of the assassination, the FBI was telling the world, through Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry, that Oswald's handwriting was on a March 20 order for a $12.78 rifle. Not known to the public was that FBI agents at Klein's had confiscated microfilm for a $21.95 rifle, also ordered on March 20. Neither of these orders matched the date or final price of the Magic Money Order. Not until a week after the assassination, On November 29, did UPI dispatch stories to, for example, the Atlanta Consitution indicating that Lee Harvey Oswald purchased an Italian rifle, with scope mounted, from Klein's Sporting Goods for $19.95, not including postage ($21.45 total). The $21.95 rifle, the $12.78 mail order rifle that was announced to the press, and Dial Ryder's claim of mounting a scope on Oswald's rifle were all but forgotten in less than a week. Why? Because a close examination of events shows that the FBI was just making up stories for a week following the assassination, before settling on the final legend. To see how the FBI created more fake documents to support it's final story about the Magic Rifle, see.... MAIL ORDER RIFLE Information above was largely excerpted from Mr. Armstrong's "Mail Order Rifle" article linked above.

The overwhelming majority of Americans are CTers, and always have been for well more than half a century. Klein's did not have to be "in on the assassination." The FBI only had to create fake paperwork and alter testimony, as it did time and time again. For example.... The short (3 minute) YouTube video below demonstrates quite clearly how the FBI altered the observations of three critical Dealey Plaza witnesses who believed shots may have been taken at JFK from outside of the Texas School Book Depository, thus contradicting the official story. The FBI went to extraordinary lengths to suppress evidence of what CIA accountant James Wilcott called the “Oswald Project,” including sending out agents within hours of the assassination to confiscate original school and teen-aged employment records of “Lee Harvey Oswald.” In the wee hours of the night of Nov 22-23, 1963, the FBI secretly took “Oswald's Possessions” from the Dallas Police Department, transported them to Washington, D.C. altered them, and then secretly returned them to Dallas, only to publicly send them to Washington. D.C. a few days later. Among a great many other alterations, a Minox “spy camera” became a Minox “light meter.” Tax records, not found by Dallas police who said they initialed each scrap of paper, magically appeared without DPD initials. FBI agent James Cadigan inadvertently spilled the bean about the secret transfer during his sworn WC testimony, which was altered by the WC. The FBI falsified so much testimony that it even had a process in place for routinely doing so, including over the objections of Warren Commission attorneys. For more about how the FBI altered evidence, see this link: Manipulated, Fabricated, and Disappearing Evidence

According to the Dallas police chief, the FBI indicated just a day or two after the assassination that it was DEFINITELY Oswald’s handwriting on a March 20 order for a $12.78 rifle from Kleins. When the Magic Money Order® evidence is finally produced, turns out that the rifle was ordered more than a week earlier, and that it cost $21.75. How did those finger prints travel back in time like that? Or maybe... Must have been TWO DIFFERENT ORDERS, eh? From TWO DIFFERENT OSWALDS? LOL! For far more details on the FBI’s dramatically evolving story on the Magic Rifle, see: Oswald Did NOT Purchase a Rifle from Kleins and MAIL ORDER RIFLE Both write-ups are by John Armstrong.

You're kidding, right?

From the 11/24/63 UPI story shown graphically above (emphasis added): Police chief Jesse Curry wove police evidence tighter around Oswald. He said the FBI reported that Oswald bought the Italian 6.5 Carcano bolt-action rifle with a telescopic sight from a Chicago mail order house for $12.78. The handwriting on the mail order was Oswald’s, Curry said. This information could only have come from the FBI. Harry Holmes had indeed shown around an ad for a $12.78 Carcano from Field & Stream, but the conclusion that Oswald’s handwriting was on the order for the $12.78 Carcano could only have come from the FBI. It was nearly a week before the FBI publicly fixed Hoover’s error in thinking the $12.78 rifle included a scope. It was fixed by simply creating an uncashed, unprocessed Magic Money Order® (most probably with Harry Holmes’ help), and by simply stating a corrected price for Klein’s mail order Carcano, which was $19.95 ($21.45 including postage). WC loyalists are simply unable to explain the obvious absence of sending bank endorsements and ABA transit numbers, required to be stamped on BOTH SIDES of the Magic Money Order. All they can do is speculate without offering any evidence whatsoever. This is just the tip of the iceberg of all that is wrong with the so-called evidence for the Magic Rifle®. For one other example, Chief Curry also told reporters that "handwriting, analyzed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in Washington as Oswald's, on an assumed name order to a Chicago mail order house last March 20 for a $12.78 rifle, similar to the assassination weapon." Curry's information, that the postal money order used to pay for the rifle was issued on MARCH 20, 1963, is exactly what the FBI told the Secret Service and their informant Harry Holmes. If the FBI really determined the handwriting on a March 20 order coupon to be Oswald's, isn’t it remarkable that the WC eventually concluded that the order that was sent to Kleins by Oswald/Hidell from Dallas a week before it was allegedly created? For far more details on the FBI’s dramatically evolving story on the Magic Rifle, see: Oswald Did NOT Purchase a Rifle from Kleins and MAIL ORDER RIFLE Both write-ups are by John Armstrong.

Please offer even the slightest bit of evidence for your theory. Please show how Federal regulations permitted your "bulk transfer," without bank endorsements AND/OR ABA transit numbers shown, on BOTH sides of the Money Order, as required by Federal regulations. Awaiting your EVIDENCE!

David.... The Pay to the Order of The First National Bank of Chicago stamp is just Klein's rubber stamp. Please show me the endorsement of the sending bank(s), along with the ABA transit number(s), which Sandy has proved were required to be printed on both sides of the Magic Money Order by federal regulations. Have I missed all this? All I see below are dated FBI initals. Where are the sending bank endorsements and the ABA transit numbers? Please point to them on the image below.

For the record, here are a few of the documents demonstrating how the Warren Commission lied to us about the 6.5 Carcano that allegedly killed President Kennedy. To look even more deeply into the untruths the Warren Commission presented, see... Oswald Did NOT Purchase a Rile from Klein's And to look deeper yet, see... The Mail Order Rifle In the meantime, here are the simplest documents to understand. It should only take minutes to see what is going on here. Following the money is easy.... Everything is under $25! The phony money order (see top right of the image below) is for $21.45. But the FBI for an ENTIRE WEEK said the rifle that killed JFK cost $12.78! FBI informant/U.S. Postal Inspector Harry Holmes believed the Carcano was sold, WITH SCOPE, for $12.78, and that's what confused J. Edgar Hoover!

Jason, Please note the phrase "ANY BANK, BANKER, OR TRUST CO." in the endorsement on the top right photostat below of the 1963 voucher to Lee Harvey Oswald from the Texas Employment Commission.

By the end of November, 1963, J. Edgar Hoover’s final story was that the 6.5 Carcano with a 4x18 power scope was priced by Klein’s at $19.95 ($21.45 including postage). But the $12.78 mail order rifle was reported nationwide by news and television reporters for an entire week after the assassination of JFK (11/23/63 through 11/29/63). If the FBI had REALLY collected and analyzed legitimate mail order documents, which obviously would have included the sale price, by the day after President Kennedy’s murder, and if the FBI had REALLY determined that the handwriting was that of “Lee Harvey Oswald,” on the mail order documents, isn’t it AMAZING that they didn’t even come close to settling on the final price of the rifle with scope until nearly a week later! More and more magic!

Sandy has shown quite clearly that the Magic Money Order® for the Magic Rifle® didn’t have the endorsement of the sending bank(s) or the ABA transit number(s), which were required on both sides of the form by federal regulations. What the Magic Money Order® DID have was all the typography, including a "File Locator Number," that could be applied using U.S. Postal equipment. Legitimate bank endorsements, however, would have necessitated the help of an institutional co-conspirator, apparently unavailable to Harry Holmes. Holmes should be remembered, however, for helping us unravel this mess. After all, Holmes submitted the Klein’s ad from the November 1963 edition of Field & Stream magazine that SEEMED to show that the 6.5 Italian Carbine (shown right under the illustration of the rifle with a scope) sold for $12.78. The ad may have been slightly misleading, since it gave the price the rifle WITHOUT A SCOPE directly under an illustration of the rifle WITH A SCOPE. Was anyone fooled by that misleading ad? J. Edgar Hoover was apparently fooled! He told Jesse Curry that the price Oswald paid for the rifle was $12.78, and newspapers all across America reported that "fact," as well as the "fact" that Oswald's handwriting was on the Magic Money Order®. You know, the one that clearly didn't exist yet! It's magic!

Legitimate financial documents have numerous stamps on the front and back indicating transit through various financial institutions. Below, for example, are vouchers issued to Lee Harvey Oswald by the Texas Employment Commission. Note the many stamps in these photostatic copies reproduced in the Warren Commission Volumes. Similarly, below are Warren Commission photostats of cancelled paychecks issued by Leslie Welding, one of Oswald's employers. Note the various stamps front and back. This is how REAL financial documents are processed!

When the Magic Money Order® was created, probably via Harry Holmes, Hoover had yet to get all his stories straight about the rifle. Newspapers all across America reported that the FBI informed Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry that Oswald bought the Italian 6.5 Carcano bolt-action rifle with a telescopic sight from a Chicago mail order house for $12.78. According to the UPI report, the "'handwriting on the mail order was Oswald's,' Curry said." Funny the FBI could tell Curry all about that handwriting, and yet miss the price of the rifle by $8.67. Oops!

Megathanks to Sandy Larsen for proving—again—that in 1963 and all other years from 1911 to 2000, postal money orders absolutely required bank endorsement stamps. Shown below is the Magic Money Order® for the Magic Rifle® that fired the Magic Bullet®. There are no bank endorsements on it; just a Klein’s rubber stamp and lots of big FBI dates and initials that take up the blank space where the bank stamps should have been.

John, Interesting theory. It would be helpful to know how that photo got associated with "Alfred of Cuba." My guess is something was written on the back. John might remember, but he is traveling abroad and I won't be able to ask him for nearly a month.