Michael Walton

Thank you Tom. I'm sorry Jim but it's very hard to keep track of this caper.

Jim I know this is going to sound sarcastic but it's really not. But just tell me.... The guy we see handing out leaflets in NO - the guy talking in a TV interview in NO - the guy in custody and the one who says "I'm here because I lived in Russia...I'm a patsy" - the guy at the midnight press conference - the guy in NO ranting on film filmed by a young kid (the so-called neck scratching film)... I'm assuming you think these are all one and the same person.... Is that person as described in all films above the Harvey one or the Lee one? PS please don't post a long saga as a reply with highlighted documents and so forth. Just answer... Is it Harvey or Lee? Thank you.

To Micah Wound description like this (animated GIF large file wait to load) If it doesn't play on your phone download it https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7Hr9Lrku-Cxdm9ZalJTSWU3cms

The military has admitted that the coffin by which Jackie stood (and she was not with it the whole time) was empty. The body was taken, apparently not by helicopter but by another ambulance, to Bethesda. Ron, nowhere in his statement does it say the coffin that Jackie was with was empty. Yes, they used a decoy ambulance to divert the crowd at the front of Bethesda and unloaded the body in private in the rear. But to stick to the point of this thread, Lifton claims they squirreled away the body on a helicopter, which is untrue. So I'm going to stick to my belief that "mad scientists at the ready doing surgery on the corpse" is not true. Thanks for the link. As for the rear wound, I made this composite. It's an animated GIF - a large file - but wait for it to load and then watch how one photo is blended into the other. You can see the beveled outshoot in the rear. This is my interpretation of it: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7Hr9Lrku-Cxdm9ZalJTSWU3cms

Ron, do you have a source for that? I'd love to read it (not Best Evidence though but something on Ferrell or something like)?

He sounds 100% American to me, and like he's lived in different parts of the country that have very different regional dialects. I think visually, it's like he's putting on an act. Both the film interview and the neck scratching footage looks like he's just doing the "look at me the mad Commie" act.

Tom twang.... Although I'm deaf with a hearing aid I recall hearing that twang in the NO interview. I'm confused is that one actually supposed to be the Hungarian or the th US born one?

Hargrove: because he was in the brig. Wow, a very convenient reason for why the clone wasn't seen, recognized, or mentioned. But what about before or after he was out of the brig? Do you have some kind of script taped to your monitor as a fallback to questions and concerns regarding this caper? You keep saying all of this is based on evidence and we have none but why would yours be any more superior? And I still want to see Harvey's service number for genuine proof. There's just no way a clone would be living day to day in the military without one.

Tom Graves Based on any sound sound recordings can you detect any kind of accent when listening to Oswald including his TV interviews?

You are correct on this point. They have the two men together at different points in time when they could have been easily noticed. All it would have taken is one person to see something funny was going on and the plot is ruined. Can you imagine the thousands upon thousands of soldiers coming and going and not a single one mentioned or has ever testified of seeing a guy looking exactly like Oswald? I've yet to read a one statement regarding this. And yet Hargrove will come back and say "Well it was all a ruse. They didn't really look that much a like. And the Moms didn't either. Well, they did but...not really." And then he'll say but wait look at the records! And then Larsen will say yeah he was given a pap smear but it couldn't be because they don't do that on ships because doctors weren't on ships. But they were....just not on that ship. The yarn spinning just never ends.

Hey, wait a minute! Dr. Kuehn doesn't do smear tests! Remember? The last time he saw Oswald, he sent him to the Mainside lab for the smear test. Why would he do that if he were perfectly capable of doing the test onboard the ship? And not only the smear test, but the culture & sensitivity test as well! Have you ever been to a doctor before where one looks you over, leaves, another one comes in, and so on? I mean come on Sandy you're reaching here. This is a huge problem with people on this board. Every single god-blessed thing on this board if it sounds maybe just a little off is suddenly the Rosetta Stone to solving the crime. If you're going to make that big of a hyperbolic leap then prove it. And I'm still not impressed with Hargrove's excuse of why the clone doesn't have a service number like the real Oswald did. I think it's one more excuse to use when less than stellar records don't match up 100%.

Gerry if I'm not mistaken LHO had a wallet on him when arrested. So here's a guy who didn't drive but I believe he "owned" three wallets one conveniently found next to the dead Tippit? He supposedly had a jacket on and dumped it but the dry cleaning label in it was from CA? He supposedly ejected automatic shells while fleeing the scene yet the gun in the theater was a revolver? All circumstantial yes but sounds like solid stuff to me. And in an entirely different case years later the suspect leaves a bloody glove at the crime scene but he's found not guilty. Stranger things have happened.

I really don't see what the big deal is here. Take a look at this: http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/1953.html My mother, who cleaned a realtor's office two nights a week to make extra money, told me that my Dad only made $1.50 an hour back then. They managed to buy a home and sell it and buy another one through the years. This was the midwest (Kentucky). But things were cheap back then. And she told me too that she could go down to the bank and get a loan with pretty much a hand shake, not like today. But to think this woman couldn't have done this and only would have been able to do is if some secret agency was behind it all to support her is silly. It's a huge leap of fath to think that.

Just a few light rebuttals to David Lifton. I think the Tippit murder was planned. If we're to believe they found a wallet thrown down next to Tippit with LHOs ID in it to me that's a catalyst for DPD to shoot to kill LHO. I know this isn't based on evidence but it just seems too wild and unbelievable that they'd squirrel away the body, with Jackie right there, and onto a helicopter. The thrumming helicopter David uses as his evidence that that's the copter taking the body away, reminds me of the HL caper. In other words, some of the records are not 100% accurate so therefore there just has to be an LHO clone on the loose.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I read that book when I was 16 years old and said wow afterwards. But now not so much. I know the book is footnoted but so is the Harvey and Lee story and I think that story is a silly concoction. What does it for me is seeing Jackie Kennedy standing up on the forklift next to the coffin. She was with it the whole time including on the tarmac on live TV. The noises you hear are just aircraft coming and going. I've been on the tarmac at Andrews several times and it's a big place. But I just find it hard to believe that there was a secret team of autopsists with scalpels at the ready. Especially so because they didn't know what the official story was going to be until the SBT was invented once the lawyers got involved. Even by early 1964 when LIFE put its issue together and they tried to explain Kennedy turned all the way around to take the throat shot even then they're still trying to explain things. So we're expected to believe that they had to cut up the body Friday night and why? Doesn't make sense.

To the HL believers... This is hardly a case closed case. Another big thing for me is what was the motive of all this cloning to get up to 11.22? A much simpler narrative is Oswald was a low level operative being sent to Russia and back. When he returned he had a so-called invisible hand gently pushing him along until he starts working at TSBD. The HL story just seems too fantastical to believe.

Ok Tom pour it on. You're just mad because I showed you up a few times on this board. That's fine. You can't deny I, like you and others, have added both good points and bad on EF. Another person got what I mean when I use the word crazy. I'm surprised you don't get it neither but whatever. And now we're back to name calling? Huh uh. I can take it. Being deaf all my life and living with that stigma I've been called a lot worst.

To Michael Walton: You really need to try to understand what it is you’re trying to debunk. If you simply looked at the USMC docs presented in thread, you would see how both Oswalds had the same service numbers. How could it be otherwise? That's exactly my point. So was it the military who started this whole clone caper even going back several years when he was a pre-teen? Or was it a spy team working in conjunction with the military? And if neither entity wanted this clone caper to be discovered I think they would have done a much better job covering their tracks. Instead they just left two clones walking around letting duplicate records be generated and to be discovered years later by John Armstrong.

What was the impostor's service number? Like it shows the real Oswald's service number on that piece of paper? If you can show that Oswald II had his own service no. then it would show a little more proof of a living breathing person was walking around.

Tom I just want to try to get to some semblance of the truth that's all. I'm not going to call you out on this thread but look what YOU even called this thread. Even you have to know that this story is straining credibility or you wouldn't have called it a couple of gems. I'll move on from Larsen seeing a black pistol in one of the old guy's hand and then making a joke of it. And yes he did prove me wrong on neck scratcher and gangly guy.

Sandy, according to Wikipedia the Skagit was scrapped in 1974. Now here it comes. Larsen's reply will be that the boat is really a black pistol. But really, he was just kidding about it being afloat still. Heh heh. Yep Larsen is one heck of a science man.

The way I try to explain this to people is that the Russian-speaking impostor (Harvey Oswald) was always being given a taste of American-born Lee Oswald’s life, so he could eventually “defect” to the Soviet Union and appear to be a red-blooded American. But he really only had a taste of Lee Oswald’s life. Couldn't help posting the above from days ago by Jestering Jim. But OMG it just keeps on getting funnier and funnier. This truly is the thread that keeps on giving.

Come on, Jim. Do you really think this whole crazy story ISN'T BS as well? But of course as you yourself said, if it proves to be nothing more than the fairy tale it is then "so what," right?

Mike C So let me get this straight. You post a thread here of pure speculation and I post a reply about how Plan A went down some of speculation and some on fact and you call out the reply as speculative? Really?

Mike C Maybe the dig did infuriate the veterans. But if they don't actually understand even to this day that they were pawns in a war they'd never win then there's nothing more to say. Kennedy of all people said in the 50s that the effort over there by the French was a losing effort. Nothing including dollars guns and American soldiers was going to change that. PS I'm allowed to say this because my brother in law served over there from 66-67.