Joe Bauer

20 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

I thought about it at the time and I think Nolan wanted to show that their relationship was PHYSICAL, as opposed to most of Oppenheimer's life, which was intellectual. 

In doing so, he offered an "innocent" explanation for their relationship, IMO. She wasn't having sex with him on behalf of a cause, and he wasn't having sex with her while taking advantage of her devotion to this cause. No, they were effing because they liked it. Because they had bodies as well as brains. 

So true and well expressed Pat. Totally agree.

Our entire being happiness is not achieved solely by scientific advancement which greatly enhances material gain. Far from it.

To acquire better modern convenience shelter and housing, transportation, medical care, toys, clothing, food choices, communication over long distance, etc., etc. is one thing.

But every one of us homo-sapiens has a much deeper need for true happiness and fulfilment. One that the scientific method cannot meet anywhere near as much as our basic mammalian human DNA drive.

That of raw intimacy. 

A life experience that written words, scientific achievements and abstract thought cannot compete with ... in the final analysis of acquiring true soul deep happiness and fulfilment. IMO anyways.

The unexpected out-of-the-blue hard core pornographic scene of a naked, sweating Jean Tatlock ( and physically very attractive imo ) feverishly working over a naked and seated Oppenheimer makes sense in your assessment Pat.

Oppenheimer's basic needs fulfilment were certainly much more than just his intellectual pursuits. The scene showed us that.

In one sense you can say the scene was unnecessary and a story line distraction.

My unexpected and instantaneous loin stirrings definitely confused me and my film train of thought.

My brain chemistry was altered there for awhile.

Ah...but what do we expect from any major film... cinematic perfection? What is that anyways?

Overall, I appreciated the film as a deeper look at Oppenheimer - the man and his life centered around his involvement with the incredibly momentous event of the development of the first atomic bomb and the beginning of a new age of humanity.

I must ask though...if Oppenheimer hadn't snatched his poisoned apple from his professor's visitor's hand and tossed it into the trash, would he had left it on the desk?

And his even injecting the apple ( with sodium pentothal was it ?) gave me a chill in thinking...is this guy ( Oppenheimer) a "Ted Kaczynsky" type nut case?

If that poisoned apple incident was true ... it makes me wonder if many so-called genius's aren't a little crazy in some sociopathic ways. Such as Asperger syndrome?

35 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

In case you are wondering why I did not say anything about the acting in Oppenheimer, its pretty simple.  I was not every impressed with it, save one exception.  Which was Robert Downey Jr as Strauss.

The rest I thought was pretty prosaic. 

In preparation for the review I saw almost every other film and TV series.  

You will never see a better Leslie Groves than the late Manning Redwood in the BBC miniseries, with Sam Waterston as Oppenheimer.  Just like you will never see a better Edward Teller than Davis Suchet in the same series. (You can watch this on YouTube)

British actors know something about technique and how to use one's voice and find accents and inflections.  Because many of them work from the outside in. 

If Nolan's film had had that kind of acting in it, it would have been even better. 

 

Jim D.

I take it you didn't like Matt Damon as Groves as much as I did not?

The daydream scene of a naked Jean Tatlock chair seat scr**ing the naked Oppenheimer during his clearance hearing was a gratuitous risk one for sure. Wonder what others felt about it?

By the way...did the police ever look for and find the soda pop bottle that Oswald was drinking from as Dallas motorcycle officer Marion Baker described him doing in the second floor lunch room just minutes after the shooting?

To check it for prints as well?

Sounds as if Oswald didn't have the pop bottle in hand when he gave journalist Jim Lehrer directions to the nearest phone in the lobby area.

Lt. Day "lifted the rifle"... "before" he dusted it for prints?

Did he do this only by holding it up by it's strap?

A Dr. Pepper soda pop bottle was "brought up from the 5th floor?"

To be dusted for prints?

Why bring up an item from the 5th floor to be dusted for prints?

One assumes that all those deputies were instructed to look for a rifle because by the time everyone got up on the sixth floor their supervisors had been made aware of eyewitnesses on the streets below telling them they saw at least one person holding a rifle in the 6th floor windows?

It must have crossed their minds that a sniper might have had a plan of getting their rifle completely off the 6th floor and hiding it somewhere else or even having an accomplice taking the rifle out?

Or even tossing it out a back of the building window to someone below as Tom Aleya did with his film cannister to someone on the street below?

How stupid could Oswald be to think the police wouldn't find his rifle as it wasn't hidden well? And knowing that his rifle would tie him into the shooting in the most obvious incriminating evidence way, ie  finger prints and ownership trace?

What has always been so illogically confounding to me is the lack of rational thinking on Oswald's part regarding his Jr. High kid level lack of planning in his shooting of the "President of the United States" and his simply walking away escape from the scene.

He defeats an army of security who are all around the scene and just feet from him, and even walks through their ranks to catch a city bus and taxi home?

Also, Oswald's success at making a bullseye hit upon a 9 inch wide 3 direction moving target 265 feet away, his simply walking away seconds after doing so, his worst plan for getting his incriminating evidence rifle away from the scene, and everything else about that one hour in the worked-up beehive of frantic gun drawn activity just seems so impossibly implausible ... it's nonsensical to a disturbing even haunting dream degree.

Interesting comment by David Talbot in the linked interview above:

"I don't even know who owns Salon.com. And I started it!"

He says Salon.com itself has hurled heavy shots against RFK Jr..

He says he believes RFK Jr. could bring this country together?

Both the left and the right?

Unless RFK Jr. adopts Trump's super aggressive stance to completely stopping illegal immigration and even sending many of them back and perhaps as well even taking U.S. military action against the drug cartels who are flooding our country and society with truly devastating and damaging drugs and who operate with impunity under completely useless and/or corrupt governments ( they have more power than these governments ) RFK Jr. won't bring the huge 60 million number Reagan cult following to anyone's side imo. 

Also, this 60 million number group are not of a "right wing" political mind set philosophically imo. I don't think they even understand that term relative to it's traditional origins. Conservative moral and economic precepts, smaller government, less spending, etc.

Perversely the majority of this group come from states that draw more federal funds of a social welfare type nature such as Social Security, disability, food stamps, and medicare per capita than the so-called left wing states! 

I propose that most of Trump's cult is a mishmash of super angry and frustrated Americans ( hugely white ) who feel threatened by what they see as a 60 year long agenda of putting their cultural heritage interests behind those of an ever growing  influx of illegal immigrant and black American interests ones.

A demographic fact that in many states has made them and their interests a minority.

A minority that in our democratic voting principle structure has them losing more and more power, control and influence electorally.

And all this white threat anger and fear fed 24/7 by a very calculated and hugely financed program of radio ( Rush Limbaugh types ), television ( Fox News ) and now internet propaganda that has been going full tilt for the last 40 years! 

Imo fed by "the real" power group of this country. The corporate 1% wealthiest of Americans. The Wall Street power structure. The Bloomberg set.

So much more powerful and influencing than these Trump cult members even understand.

The most threatening persons to these most powerful entities are people like Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren and AOC or anyone like them politically.

Americans who have been trying to lessen the grip of the real power people of  extreme wealth and yet, who are of such an extremely small minority.

Who dupe and feed the massive anger and fear feeling groups into thinking their specific interests are the main issue here.

These secret controllers would only see RFK Jr. as a third party candidate who might actually draw enough votes from any real threatening Democratic party candidate who may by chance be of the Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders mind set politically.

For what it's worth.

In the film "American Sniper" Navy Seal sniper Chris Kyle is depicted as having to shoot women and children in Iraq.

162 confirmed kills total.

The film shows at least two women victims who were either shooting a rifle or carrying a concealed explosive device which Kyle had to decide were going to be used to kill his brothers in arms.

War is hell.

Surreal that Kyle was shot to death by one of his own fellow service men right here back in the states who had developed extreme mental illness issues.

On 8/4/2023 at 1:47 AM, Pat Speer said:

Saw the film last week. It digs into a lot of the issues surrounding the bomb, and Oppenheimer's thoughts about his role in history. 

Now some thoughts about the war. As the war closed in on Japan, the Japanese military as well as its people made it clear they had no interest in unconditional surrender, and would fight on no matter the cost. The war was lost. They could not win. They were banking that the U.S. would allow them to save face and hold onto power in exchange for an end to the war, but they failed to see that the American military and American public was as determined as they were...to punish them. While it's true that the war could have ended before Hiroshima, such an ending would not have satisfied the American beast, which was determined to make Japan pay. This is perhaps the darkest side of propaganda. Once it is unleashed to stir people into action, they are not satisfied with a handshake. Only blood atonement will do. In this case, the U.S. could have fire-bombed Japan into oblivion and the American people would have been delighted. The atomic bomb, however, was a very Big Bang, and might very well shock the Japanese leaders into unconditional surrender. So...ironically, the bomb saved lives, hundreds of thousands of American lives, sure, but perhaps a few million Japanese lives as well. It worked. Now, was it ethical? No. But is war ever ethical? 

Now, back to the movie. There is an excellent scene where Oppenheimer meets Truman and tells Truman (the always-amazing Gary Oldman) that he, Oppenheimer, feels like he has blood on his hands. Sad, right. But Truman's response is classic. He tells Oppenheimer that the Japanese don't care who built the bomb, they care about who dropped it. As Oppenheimer leaves his office, moreover, Truman tells an assistant to make sure he never sees that cry-baby again. 

War is hell, and sometimes you have to sell your soul to win. 

P.S. I just went to a school orientation for my son and ended up rapping with some other parents. One couple just moved back from Japan, where they confirmed that few Japanese bear any grudges against the U.S. about the bomb. IOW, they understand that it was the quickest way to end the war. 

This, of course, doesn't answer one of the questions raised in Oppenheimer. Should the military have told the Japanese people what was coming if they didn't surrender? It seems like a long-shot. But long-shots are not impossible shots. 

Great points Pat.

I saw the film last week.

I wish I could write as well as Jim D... and if I could I would express at least a few critical thoughts.

Ones that had some intellectual gravitas versus my typical low brow entries.

Great acting by the way.

I recommend Robert Downey Jr. for the best supporting actor Academy Award this next March.

And GREAT make up work. Academy award for this as well. Imo anyways.

It took a minute or two for me to recognize Gary Oldman as Truman.

Curious coincidence that Oldman played Lee Harvey Oswald in Oliver Stone's film "JFK." I wonder who picked Oldman for the Truman role.

And yes, I caught that line ( some may have missed it because it was through a closing Oval Office door) where Truman tells his other guest...I don't want that cry-baby ( Oppenheimer ) in this office again.

I love Matt Damon for 75% of the films he has been in.

But not this one.

Guess I have him type cast in my mind too much as Jason Bourne and other younger person roles.

I think casting an older actor, even if not a famous one, would have lessened the miscast distraction for me Damon was.

Should we have dropped the first Atomic bombs ( 2 ) on Japanese cities?

So much legitimate debate there that there is no way any one person can answer that question simply imo.

War is hell as Pat says.

It's ruthless and those that create it are usually ruthless psychopathic power mad cult leaders whom you have to confront just as ruthlessly to defeat them.

And one could easily constantly cite the atrocities of the Japanese as being way more brutal than their losses in Hiroshima and Nagasaki...and to a point even the Tokyo and Dresden bombings.

Many Jews wanted to exact revenge on the German people after their defeat that would have killed more than Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Diabolical actions such as poisoning their drinking water on a huge scale.

Surprised the Chinese didn't get to pound on the Japanese at wars end for Nanking "alone!"

I grew up with a Burmese friend.

His mother got out of the country one step ahead of the Japanese take over.

As her plane was lifting off, she witnessed sword armed Japanese soldiers cutting the heads off of other Burmese civilians left on the tarmac who didn't get out in time.

Also my son interviewed a Bataan Death March survivor for a Junior High history class project back in the mid-1990's.

I accompanied my son and we met in this fellow's home in Salinas, CA. His name was "Ben Cicone."  Or "Ciccone?"

He survived the march, only to be shipped off to Japan and interred into a Japanese prisoner of war camp there.

Let me just say that the atrocities he described the Japanese inflicting upon the Death March men and later in their main island prison camp...made you feel the Japanese couldn't be punished enough for their unbelievably brutal en masse war crimes.

If Joe Pesci actually listened to tapes of Ferrie speaking to prepare for his Ferrie role in Stone's film "JFK" he would be a logical person to ask if the voice of the Morrissette provided audio link was actually Ferrie...one would think?

Pesci is certainly alive. Wonder how to contact him with this question.

Gil, one of the most egregious examples of FBI alterations is their affidavit reports after interviewing Julia Ann Mercer.

Ms. Mercer stated the signature on the copy of their affidavit was not hers, there was no notary present when they questioned her and they lied regards her identification of Jack Ruby as the driver of the stalled truck at the far end base of the grassy knoll through pictures they laid out in front of her.

She also was not called before the Warren Commission.

And never forget that Dallas FBI agent James Hosty stated ( chuckling ) years after his WC testimony that he held back telling the commission that he destroyed their Lee Harvey Oswald file the day or day after Oswald was shot and killed upon orders from his boss James Gordon Shanklin. Which he immediately did within minutes of being given the order.

Can you imagine the nuclear reaction by the Commission if Hosty had told them the full "truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth" the day of his testimony regards his agency's destruction of Oswald's file just 2 to 3 days after the JFKA?

When asked why he held back this destruction of specific mind blowing important evidence information from the Commission, Hosty simply stated "they didn't ask."

They didn't ask?

How could they ( the Warren Commission ) ask about something they didn't know existed?

Hosty's Warren Commision testimony oath was to "tell the truth, the WHOLE truth and NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH ...so help me God."

Hosty knew he was not telling the Commission the "whole" and full truth and "nothing but the truth."

And the man was of the Catholic faith. He also violated his "so help me God" part of that oath as well.

He chose to protect his employer and obviously his own pension employment status in the agency over making sure the American public knew the full truth of Oswald and the Dallas FBI.

Spectre to Worrell:

"the question is did you tell the FBI the man you saw looked like Oswald?"

Worrell to Specter:

"I don't know if I did or not."

So...it's just as possible you did say to the FBI the man you saw looked like Oswald as it is you didn't?

JFK wasn't murdered because of his philandering.

Not real familiar with Mark Groubert, however I just watched an interview of him by Eric Hunley.

The discussion was mostly about David Ferrie.

Groubert's got a style of presentation that reminds me of stand-up comedian Mort Sahl. Sarcastic humor yet seemingly well informed.

Groubert mentions Joe Pesci listening to tapes of David Ferrie speaking to prepare for his Ferrie role in Oliver Stone's film "JFK."

If true, then somewhere there are actual taped recordings of Ferrie speaking.

In the beginning of this interview host Eric Hunley shows and plays the exact same Ferry speaking tape Denis Morrisette has linked us to.

Groubert seemed like he had never heard this audio tape.

He also seemed unsure as to whether it really was Ferrie on the tape.

Groubert has a lot of side stories he shares about the JFKA players he is discussing.

Yes, very interesting but I don't know enough about Groubert and his sources to accept their validity out of hand at this time.

One story Groubert shares is that Ferrie used to take his teen air cadet boys onto flights with him. To share the cockpit with him side by side.

He reportedly would then try to initiate some type of sexual contact with these boys.

Groubert stated one story that Ferrie tried this with young 14 year old Lee Oswald and Oswald responded by slugging Ferrie in the jaw!

Ferrie's supposed suicide had some illogical aspects as did Dorothy Kilgallen's.

However, Kilgallen's was so illogical it was absurd.

Ferrie types up two suicide notes, but the N.O. coroner finds that Ferrie died a natural death? 

"wise bunch of birds"

Garrison quoted Ferrie saying this?

How about a few other Ferrie dialogue statements Oliver Stone included in his film "JFK."

Were the following also Garrison quotes attributed to Ferrie?

"You don't leave the agency. You're in for life."

"Shaw?" "Highest clearance." An untouchable."

"David Ferrie: Oh man, why don't you f***in' stop it? Sh*t, this is too f***in' big for you, you know that? Who did the president, who killed Kennedy, f*** man! It's a mystery! It's a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma! The f***in' shooters don't even know!"

"They'll get to you too."

"I'm a dead man!"

2 hours ago, Denis Morissette said:

A friend of mine went to Nara to listen the audio I posted. On the box, it says « B.R. 1967 »

B.R. 1967?

What does that stand for?

2 hours ago, Denis Morissette said:

A friend of mine went to Nara to listen the audio I posted. On the box, it says « B.R. 1967 »

B.R. 1967?

What does that stand for?

32 minutes ago, Denis Morissette said:

I messaged Alain Beauboeuf with the link to my video of Ferrie's tape. He saw my message but never replied to me. He deceased. 

Wouldn't Judyth Vary Baker know Ferrie's voice?

She met the guy and she is very alive.

Anyone here on the forum connected to her well enough to ask her to ID the voice on DM's linked recording?

19 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

The voice does not sound like any description of Ferrie's voice that I have read.

If that is not David Ferrie's voice on the linked audio clip then that is a very strange recording indeed.

Now I am really intrigued.

Who are our most informed David Ferrie experts on this forum?

I think Jim D. himself posted that he had never heard of this tape?

Or was it that he had never heard David Ferrie's voice?

Curiously strange that a guy who interacted with so many people and even gave 4 talks a week expressing the evils of Fidel Castro...no where is there a legitimate tape recording of his speaking or one person that heard him speak?

1 hour ago, Gerry Down said:

Carlos Bringuier would be one. 

How could any of us make contact to ask him?

Is there anyone alive that knew David Ferrie back then that could verify whether this tape is actually David Ferrie speaking?

They'd have to be in their eighties I would imagine.

8 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

KK--

Thanks for posting. I have watched some of Mark Groubert's broadcasts and he knows his stuff, and is fun to watch.

I wish Groubert was a bit more skeptical here and there, and stopped concluding everyone was a bisexual, but we all have our own paths. 

Groubert recently did a podcast that Mohrenschildt, earlier in life, had painted some watercolors, and opened up in a NY gallery to great success. 

I wondered what happened to Mohrenschildt's painting career. 

Govin that Hunter Biden got $500k for a painting he did, maybe Mohrenschildt should have stuck with it. 

Mohrenschildt did mention doing some sketching of coastal landscape scenes during one of his travels to eastern Europe. I think the local authorities there were a little suspicious of him doing so. Seems they were watching him in his off time.

If his artistic efforts in his past are true, his sketching may very well have been just an innocent endeavor.

Now, George and Jeannie's hatchet chopping trek/walk through the jungles of Mexico just by chance coinciding in location and timing with the arrival of an important Russian official's arrival at a nearby airport there, where Jeanie physically met and greeted this fellow...Hmmm?

7 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Does this sound like an interview to you Joe?

Now that you mention it JD it is clearly a prepared statement by Ferrie.

Thanks for clarifying this.

Even so, you can hear occasional questions proposed to Ferrie during it. Hard to hear but there is definitely someone else present in the background.

Maybe this Ferrie statement is well known in the Ferrie research community.

If so, my poor overall David Ferrie research knowledge is exposed.

Still, hearing this for the first time, I find it fascinating in many ways.

It seems a template for Jim Garrison's "On The Trail Of The Assassins" book.

The amount of illegality and corruption in the New Orleans police and attorney world at that early 1960's time is a mind blower.

What a surreally crazy place New Orleans was back then.

Mafia, crooked cops and lawyers, weird spy vs spy covert operations central ( operation Mongoose?) hot headed Cuban expats running around, Oswald running around passing street fight inflaming leaflets, David Ferrie doing his extreme political and rat study things, obsessed commie hunter, extreme segregationist Guy Bannister and secret associations Clay Shaw doing their thing.

NO was a smorgasbord of anything goes sexual activity - strip joints, prostitution, gay sex, jazz music and clubs.

African roots black culture, voodoo, shrimp gumbo and jambalaya food obsession.

Hot, humid, steamy, spooky pirates lair DNA roots.

America's Marseille?

What a circus.

1 hour ago, Nick Bartetzko said:

Joe,

Just a bit of tongue in cheek in a forum wherein things sometimes get a bit heated. Been studying the JFKA since 1968 and am very familiar with David Ferrie. My impression of Ferrie has been that he was very intelligent.

NB...did you click on the Denis Morrisette provided link above regards the David Ferrie interview?

Did you know about this interview years ago?

You must admit, that in Ferrie's summary of his time fighting the sex charges against him he brings in every New Orleans character that Jim Garrison mentions in his book "On The Trail Of The Assassins."  As well as many others.

Ferrie is connected to them all!

Don't you find this interview a block buster of a Ferrie connection reveal.

The only other main characters Ferrie doesn't mention are Clay Shaw and the head of the N.O. FBI.

See the following link to see the 2013 alien question congressional committee hearing 10 years prior to this latest one that really revealed and discussed the same thing.

UFOs - TheTruth Embargo & Coverup (Session 18) | The Citizen Hearing on UFO Disclosure.

What a find!

Amazing audio tape. Even mind blowing.

Is there any major publication book on Ferrie and/or the Jim Garrison investigation that cites this interview/press statement?

How could it not be?

Bombshell revelations.

In 60 years I've never read anything about this Ferrie statement.

Just a few incredible points.

Ferrie's mother lived with him in New Orleans? Really?

From what date to what date?

Ferrie's father taught law?

Ferrie's brother was a nuclear physicist?

Ferrie reached out to Guy Bannister for help with these "crimes against nature" charges? Obviously proving his close association with Bannister.

Bannister side kick Jack Martin as well? Even Joe Newbreau?

And who the heck was "Lawrence Taylor?"

Ferrie gets N.O. attorney G. Wray Gill to take his case?

Powerful Mafia mob boss Carlos Marcello's attorney?

Everybody was milking Ferrie for thousands of dollars ( today's dollars 10X the value versus that time ) to "fix" his case? All of it kept without helping.

Sergio Arcacha-Smith in the mix? 

Ferrie said he was giving anti-Castro talks 4 times a week?

Ferrie kept rifles at his home ( 4 ) to use in teaching his Civil Air patrol cadets how to shoot these?

There is so much more in the tape. 

Charges of hypnotizing young men? The fellow on this tape had a voice and tone and speaking manner that I could see being a good one for that kind of act.

And I now believe this was Ferrie's real voice and manner of speaking.

A far cry from Joe Pesci's frantic high pitched bad New Orleans accent ( couldn't totally hide his native New Jersey one ) Ferrie performance in the Oliver Stone film "JFK."

Again, I find it surprising that Jim Garrison didn't go into a more thorough descriptive mention of Ferrie's speaking elocution and manner. It was quite impressive in it's own right.

He did do so regards Clay Shaw, Jack Martin, Dean Andrews, Perry Russo, even his own deputies.

5 hours ago, Nick Bartetzko said:

Can't be Ferrie as he doesn't sound like Joe Pesci .... Another interesting find, Vince

NB...have you ever read anything about Ferry's speaking voice?

Everyone always described Ferry as very intelligent and extremely knowledgeable about many things even though many areas of his study were not ones most people would ever be drawn to.

Rat cancer research? Hypnotism? 

I didn't take Joe Pesci's frantic, chain smoking, higher pitched Brooklyn accent Ferry that seriously. But I never expected the real David Ferry to sound like a seasoned well-toned TV news broadcaster either.