Joe Bauer

Nurse Phyliss Hall didn't have to find corroborating witnesses to her presence in the ER area or actually in the Trauma Room 1 where she helped take JFK's stretcher into.

Since she never went public with her story, she wasn't confronted by critics and doubters who demanded she provide such.

When she did allow herself to be interviewed decades later, I would think she might have provided the name of her friend who worked at the Triage station.

Then again, maybe her Triage friend passed away years ago?

Or maybe her friend asked not to be identified?

I wouldn't expect any of the doctors in that room to have identified "any" of the nurses present.

They were 100% mentally engaged ( and in at least some level of shock) in trying to save the life of the savagely injured President of the United States!

So, in that frame of reference you wouldn't expect any of the doctors and other specialists in that packed and harried ER room to be able to say who was or "was not" in that room as far as nurses go.

And when the JFK security entourage team arrived at the ER parking space they were all in super hyped-up anxiety mode. They still didn't know how threatening the situation was or could be.

And when they burst onto the scene and through the doors of the ER department, they were surely just yelling for any personnel they could find to help them get JFK and Connally into treatment. 

Nurse Hall was standing right there in front of them (in uniform ) when they barged in.

Of course they demanded she help them in their frantic efforts.

Nurse Hall described how sorry she felt for Jackie K. And she even described the coldness of Dr. Kemp Clark ( she knew him from her years of employment at Parkland ) and how it was upsetting for her to witness Jackie Kennedy being so coldly treated by Clark upon his declaration of her husband's death unless she witnessed it herself...in the room.

I don't see how Nurse Hall could describe that scene as detailed as she did without others who were there countering her story if it wasn't true.

Others proven to be in the Trauma Room 1 during the JFK treatment could easily have debunked Hall's observation of both Dr. Kemp Clark, his final words to Jackie K. and Jackie K.'s stunned silence response.

I wonder if any Warren Commission witnesses described the scene in Trauma Room 1 with a very different take versus Hall's?

# - three Parkland nurses did testify to the Warren Commission.

Nurse Diana Bowron was in Trauma Room 1 assisting the doctors and did testify to the Warren Commission. Only 22 years of age she had just been hired 3 months previously.

Nurse Ruth Jeanette Standridge ( head ER nurse on the floor ) was always in Trauma Room 2 with Governor Connally the entire treatment time until he was taken upstairs to the OR.

Nurse Standridge was never in Trauma Room 1.

Does anyone believe that 22 year old, 3 month experience Diana Bowron was the only nurse to go into Trauma Room 1 during JFK's presence there?

ER Nurse supervisor Doris Nelson was in both Trauma rooms to help set them up for the arrivals of JC and JFK.

She was outside Trauma Room 1 and related Jackie Kennedy's sitting in the hall but then walking into the Trauma room to stand at her husband's foot.

Doris Nelson gave a written statement for the record regards her actions and observations that day and the following two days.

Some interesting points:

She revealed there were other nurses and orderlies present in the ER area and even in Trauma Room 1 as she mentioned she ordered them to clean up the room after JFK was removed from it.

She also states she instructed the entire ER nursing staff to not discuss the doings of that day in any way to the press.

Hence, Phyllis Hall would have certainly known about this order as well.

Doris Nelson statement:

ACTIVITIES OF DORIS NELSON, R.N., BEGINNING 12:00 NOON FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 1963.

"At approximately 12 ;00 Noon I returned from lunch, and proceeded to check the various areas in the Emergency Room, At approximately 12:33 P.M.  I answered the phone which was ringing in the Major Surgery Nurses' Station. Mrs. Bartlett, the telephone operator, informed me that the President had been shot, and was being brought to the hospital. I told her to "stop kidding me". She said "I am not . I have the police dispatcher on the line ."  I thanked her and immediately hung up the phone. I asked Dr . Dulaney, the Surgery Resident, to come to Trauma Room # 1, and that I wished to talk with him because I did not wish to alert everyone which might have caused general pandemonium in the Emergency Room. I informed Mrs. ( head nurse ) Standridge, and she told me that Room # 1 was set up so I proceeded into Room # 2, and had opened one bottle of Ringer's Lactate when I heard someone call for carriages . Seconds later, Governor Connally was brought into Room # 2. I opened his shirt and saw that he had received a gunshot wound of the chest. Mrs. Standridge was in the room assisting the doctor so as I walked out of the room to check on the President, he was wheeled into Trauma Room # 1.

I checked in the room to determine what type of injury he had sustained and was asked by the Secret Service to screen all personnel at the doorway leading to the trauma rooms. In the meantime, I answered the phone in the Surgery Nurses' Station and Dr . Baxter was on the line . He asked what we wanted. I told him that the President had been shot, and he said "Yes - what else is new?" I said ; "Get down here", and he said ; "I'm on my way." I stood at the doorway with a city policeman and secret service agent, and screened each doctor that went into the area . I offered to get Mrs. Kennedy, who was sitting outside of Trauma Room # 1, a towel, and asked her if she would like to remove her gloves which were saturated with blood. She said  "No thank you, I'm alright."

On one occasion she got up, and went into the room the President was in. I went in and asked her if she had rather wait outside and she said "no." 

One of the Secret Service men said to let her stay in the room. She came out shortly thereafter. Several White House aides and secretaries came in and embraced Mrs. Kennedy, and I believe Mrs. Lyndon Johnson was among them. Dr. Kemp Clark arrived. The cardio-verter was carried into the room, and Dr . Jenkins from Anesthesia came with an anesthesia cart . Shortly after Dr . Clark arrived, two priests arrived, and gave the President last rites.

Dr. Clark came out of the room and talked briefly with Mrs. Kennedy . Then the priest came out, and I talked with the First Lady also. I was informed by Dr . Clark of the President's expiration.

Part 2.

"The President's doctor informed me that arrangements had been made to obtain a casket for the body . Shortly afterwards Mr. O'Neal of the O'Neal Ambulance Company arrived with a bronze casket. Miss Hinchliffe came out, and asked for some plastic to put inside the casket . I sent Mrs. Hutton to the 2nd floor to obtain a plastic mattress cover. I went in Trauma Room # 1 to determine that all was in order while Mrs. Ellis stood in the doorway. I asked David Sanders to assist "the nurses" in preparing the President's body before placing it in the casket. I instructed "the nurses and attendants" to clean up the room and mop the floor .

After Mr. O'Neal, and some of the boys who work with him, (only one of whose name I knew - Audrey Riker) placed the President in the casket and closed it.

Mrs. Kennedy went in and sat in a chair beside it leaning her head on the casket.

At approximately 2 :10 P.M the President's body was taken out of the Emergency Room. Mrs. Kennedy was walking beside it . All of the secret service agents left the area.

Shortly after they left, Nurse Miss Bowron informed me that she took the President's watch off so the doctor could start an intravenous and that she placed the watch in her pocket and did not think of it until everyone had left.

She went out front to find someone and saw Mr. Wright so she gave the watch to him.

I gave a blue coat containing a white envelope labeled "cash" found, and a card with the name "Clint Hill" to one of the secret service men. ( Clint Hill's coat? )

When the presidential staff left Mr. Price obtained coffee for us, and we went into my office, drank about two sips, smoked about two puffs from a cigarette. Then I made rounds and informed the registration desk that we were seeing all patients. Mrs. Wright came down shortly after that and I reviewed with her briefly the past experience.

I went to coffee with Mrs. Berger. Then I went to the Nursing Service Office and was told that all supervisors were to attend a meeting in Miss Beck's office at 3:30 P.M.

I returned to the Emergency Room and asked all personnel on the 7-3 :30 shift to report to my office.  Mr. Geilich came in my office while I was talking to them "I asked them not to discuss the past events with anyone" and if any of the nurses were approached by a member of the press that they were to obtain administrative approval before saying anything. I went back upstairs to the Nursing Service Office to attend the meeting. After the meeting, I returned to the Emergency Room, made rounds, and left at approximately 5 :00 P.M . 5 :30 - 10 :00 P.M. ...

Certainly there were more nurses in the ER Trauma Room area than just Nelson, Standridge and Bowron. Even if they were just there in case they were needed.

7 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Pat, acknowledging you are 1,000 times more thoroughly researched than me, I would still like to present some countering thoughts as to why I feel Nurse Hall shouldn't be marginalized as much as you believe she should be.

This nurse had "6 years" of ER experience before she left that intense and often odd hours duty to better accommodate her role as a mother to her young children.

Her outpatient registration duties were surely less demanding in stress and motherly availability than her ER ones.

So, she was extremely qualified and knowledgeable about ER nursing procedures and responsibilities.

And she obviously didn't feel out of place being in the ER Trauma Room 1 except perhaps being in the way of an unprecedented chaotic crowding and coming and going. It is certain everyone was bumping into each other in that frantic scene and small room.

Hall's descriptions of JFK's color, eye closure and fixed state reflected her many years of hands-on ER emergency experience. The woman knew what she was talking about. She knew physical death attributes when she saw them.

And Hall obviously had seen many ER patients with gunshot injuries, including in the head. How could she not with 6 years of full-time big city hospital duty there? Her descriptions of JFK's head wounds were based on lots of experienced observation.

And Hall stated she was mostly pressed against a wall in the room? That sounds like a very honest claim to me. In that she would only leave that position if she was asked to do so. It also is the opposite of a claim of heroic right next to the body action of doing things like tending to JFK's wounds. It was a modest admission, not an attention seeking exaggerated one.

And in the two videos of Hall's recollections I have viewed she never mentioned any doctor cradling of JFK's head and showing her the head wound up close.

Hall knew every doctor in that room. How could she not after 8 years of Parkland employment and 6 years of working alongside most of them in emergency response situations?

Hall mentions Doctor Carrico doing the initial trach. 

How could she know this if she wasn't in the room when he did this?

Student nurse Theoy also stated Carrico doing this.

It is doubtful Hall and Theoy colluded on this observation. As the outpatient registrar I wouldn't think she would know a student nurse that well.

Halls testimony is that she took a short break from her outpatient duties as things were very slow due to most of the cities population out watching the motorcade.

So, she visits her friend at the Triage desk.

She obviously knew many fellow employees after 8 years.

As she is standing there near the ER entrance hall doorway, it burst open and she sees Cabell and his wife, LBJ and others.

Hall never said she was "grabbed" by some scary worked up government agent in the interviews I have seen. Outside of stating this man was armed with a big rifle, it didn't sound to me as if Hall was trying to exaggerate that scene beyond what anyone would expect it to be...frantic and yelling of course.

She did say he said forcefully we need you to help us NOW!

She does just that in the process of helping to get the two wounded men on stretchers into the trauma rooms.

She knows what to do. She doesn't claim to do anything more dramatic than some basic procedures.

Student nurse Theoy on the other hand claimed to have actually drawn a vial of JFK's blood ( twice ) and running these to a testing tech.

What's a "student nurse" doing in this Earth shaking life and death ER room situation jammed packed with the hospitals top surgeons?

Where was ER nurse supervisor Doris Nelson? The top nurse in the whole hospital?

Hall's recollections about Jackie in the ER room matches Theoy's.

Not embellished any more than to say Jackie just stood at the foot of the treatment table in complete and silent shock. And how she felt great empathy for her.

Enough so that after emotionless looking and acting Dr. Kemp Clark just abruptly declared JFK deceased, he then walks by Jackie K. and coldly says just 5 words..."Madame, your husband is dead" and then walks out of the room.

Nurse Hall claimed she then expressed at least the minimum empathy words of "I'm sorry for your loss" to Jackie K. to which JK responded with no words and just kept staring off into space with the most profound look of shock Hall had ever seen.

Sorry, but Hall's ER presence recollection story makes too much common life experience sense to me for it to see it as a made up one.

Especially considering her years of solid work performance experience of working at Parkland and with 6 years right inside their ER department.

And as far as corroboration, would it have been too hard to find Hall's ER Triage desk friend to verify her story?

 

 

 

 

And as far as Nurse Hall sharing her 11,22,1963 story with others I tried to put myself in her shoes.

She witnesses something more shocking than anything she has ever seen.

Even after 6 years of ER work which surely included many brutal scenes of injury and death.

The "President of the United States" laying bloody, brutally savaged and dead right in front of her and the First Lady looking so crushingly traumatized it was ghostly.

She still must go back and stay on her shift until 8:PM that night.

She comes home emotionally shaken and drained and must tend to her 3 young children.

She obviously doesn't want to show too much anxious emotion for their sake.

And what does she say to her husband after the kids are in bed?

If it were me...it would be impossible to come up with anything but the most shocking general feelings and thoughts. 

Details would be held back. She needed to process the once in a lifetime experience in her own mind.

And she had to get on with her own young caring children life and her job.

I would imagine that she also knew she shouldn't talk about what she had witnessed. Especially to the press. And she probably felt she shouldn't gossip about the event with family and friends as well.

Hall was raised in a small 1400 population farming town. Good family. Midwestern working class upbringing? Church goers probably?

So called conservative values type person.

She never tries to seek public attention to her story and herself until 50 years later when she agrees to be interviewed by the 6th Floor historical group.

It's not like she sought out the Oprah, Phil Donahue or Jerry Springer TV shows or 60 MINUTES.

She never wrote a book or even wrote an article for a national magazine publication.

And she even was honest enough to admit she went with her husband to Jack Ruby's Carousel Club to watch the famous Stripper "Candy Barr" whom she described as "beautiful!"

You Go Girl!

Pat, acknowledging you are 1,000 times more thoroughly researched than me, I would still like to present some countering thoughts as to why I feel Nurse Hall shouldn't be marginalized as much as you believe she should be.

Ms. Hall had "6 years" of ER nursing experience before she left that intense and often odd hours duty to better accommodate her role as a mother to her 3 young children.

Her outpatient registration duties were surely less demanding in stress and motherly availability home time than her ER ones.

So, she was extremely experienced, qualified and knowledgeable about ER nursing procedures and responsibilities.

JFK ER attending Nurse Diana Bowron was only 22, just out of nursing school training in England and had been at Parkland only "3 months" prior to 11,22,1963.

ER nurse supervisor Doris Nelson had been in her supervisor position for only 1 and 1/2 years.

And 6 year Parkland ER experienced nurse Hall obviously didn't feel out of place being in or right next to the ER Trauma Room 1 except perhaps being in the way of an unprecedented chaotic crowding and coming and going. It is certain everyone was bumping into each other in that frantic scene and small room.

Hall's descriptions of JFK's color, eye closure and fixed state reflected her many years of hands-on ER emergency experience. The woman knew what she was talking about. She knew physical death attributes when she saw them.

And Hall obviously had seen many ER patients with gunshot injuries, including in the head. How could she not with 6 years of full-time big city hospital duty there? Her descriptions of JFK's head wounds were based on lots of experienced observation.

And Hall stated she was mostly pressed ( "plastered" ) against a wall during the JFK treatment event.

That sounds like a very honest claim to me in that it was a modest admission of "mere presence", not an exaggerated attention seeking claim of her doing something more heroic in the treatment actions.

And in the two videos of Hall's recollections I have viewed she never mentioned any doctor cradling of JFK's head and showing her the head wound up close.

Hall knew every doctor in that room. How could she not after 8 years of Parkland employment and 6 years of working alongside most of them in emergency response situations?

Hall mentions Doctor Carrico doing the initial trach. 

How could she know this if she wasn't in the room when he did this?

Student nurse Theoy also stated Carrico doing this.

It is doubtful Hall and Theoy colluded on this observation. As the outpatient registrar I wouldn't think she would know a 22 year old student nurse that well.

Halls testimony is that she took a short break from her outpatient duties as things were very slow due to most of the city's population out watching the motorcade.

So, she visits her friend at the Triage desk.

She obviously knew many fellow employees after 8 years.

As she is standing there near the ER entrance hall doorway, it burst open and she sees Cabell and his wife, LBJ and others.

Hall never said she was "grabbed" by some scary worked up government agent in the interviews I have seen. Outside of stating this man was armed with a big rifle, it didn't sound to me as if Hall was trying to exaggerate that scene beyond what anyone would expect it to be...frantic and yelling of course.

She did say he said forcefully we need you to help us NOW!

She does just that in the process of helping to get the two wounded men on stretchers into the trauma rooms.

She knows what to do. She doesn't claim to do anything more dramatic than some basic stretcher transport procedures.

Student nurse Theoy on the other hand claimed to have actually drawn a vial of JFK's blood ( twice ) and running these to a testing tech. First one tossed due to it not being labeled with the patient's name.

What's a "student nurse" doing in this Earth shaking life and death ER room situation jammed packed with the hospitals top surgeons?

Where was ER nurse supervisor Doris Nelson? 

Hall's recollections about Jackie in the ER room matches Theoy's.

Not embellished any more than to say Jackie just stood at the foot of the treatment table in complete and silent shock. And how she felt great empathy for her.

Enough so that after emotionless looking and acting Dr. Kemp Clark just abruptly declared JFK deceased, he then walks by Jackie K. and with out even looking at Jackie K. coldly says just 5 words..."Madame, your husband is dead" and then walks out of the room.

Nurse Hall claimed she then expressed at least the minimum empathy words of "I'm sorry for your loss" to Jackie K. to which JK responded with no words and just kept staring off into space with the most profound look of shock Hall had ever seen.

Sorry, but Hall's ER presence recollection story makes too much common life experience sense to me for it to be a made up one.

Especially considering her years of solid work performance experience of working at Parkland and with 6 years right inside their ER department.

And as far as corroboration, would it have been too hard to find Hall's ER Triage desk friend to verify her story?

1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

I don't recall that he destroyed the file. My recollection is that he destroyed the note left for him by Oswald telling him to leave Marina alone. 

Where have you read where the Warren Commission was ever provided with the Dallas Office's complete Oswald file?

And even if Hosty burned up and flushed down the toilet "any" part of that file and he and his employer purposely kept this evidence destroying action from the WC...it's just as outrageous.

If Oswald left a threatening warning note with their office the Commission would surely want to know about it...yes?

A note like that would incriminate Oswald even more as a violent dangerous person capable of committing just about anything of that nature. Bolstering his image as just the kind of person who would do JFK?

In all the 6 volumes of the final report, is there any mention or summary of the Dallas FBI's file on Oswald?

Landis and his co-writer promoting his book just before the milestone 60th JFKA anniversary is just coincidence?

And he gets national news media coverage for this?

Kudos to his publicity agent.

And so much for SS agents not profiting off the JFKA and their "right there" involvement with it?

Might as well cash out before it's too late?

These nurses who were right there as well never even tried to make a dime off of their "right there" experience and observations.

Same with the JFK and Connally treating doctors from what I can recall except maybe two? Crenshaw for one.

Gotta remember ... Kennedy's assassination was a security breakdown "failure" on the part of the SS and all the other agencies tasked with that responsibility.

We just didn't have the manpower to man the rooftops and secure high building open windows along the parade route.

Not keeping an eye on Lee Harvey Oswald ( employed in a high floor building just above the motorcade route) never entered the security risk individual mind of FBI agent Hosty who's personal assignment was Oswald?

Agent Hosty ( highest priority briefed on JFK security task duties that morning ) is having lunch in a downtown Dallas diner when JFK is shot?

Now THAT's what you call " highest priority and professional" security measures and action duty?

Hosty then "destroys his agency's Oswald file" ( mind boggling ) the day after Oswald was whacked by Jack Ruby?

A sleazy strip joint owner who just sauntered into the hugely guarded DPD basement and was able to then jump within inches of Oswald's unprotected front and blow his guts out?

Wasn't the Oswald FBI file extremely vital and important evidence?

Wouldn't the Warren Commission want to know about and see that file with absolute highest priority urgency?

If Hosty had told them of his Oswald file destruction action in his WC testmony... can you imagine the chaos that would have erupted?

You destroyed your Oswald file? The day after Oswald was killed?

Holy Toledo!

15 hours ago, Charles Blackmon said:

Another Parkland nurse observed a bullet on the gurney. Here is the post from a few years ago concerning Sharon Thuoy.

 

Wow!

She confirms several of Nurse Hall's observations.

One being Dr. Carrico did the initial Trach incision on JFK.

Not Dr. Malcolm Perry. Perry inserted the breathing tube.

She described JFK's head wound in the same area as Hall.

She helped remove JFK's shirt. Nurses do that, not the doctors who have scrubbed up and only tend to the body injuries.

She said she was in ( or at least near ) trauma room 1 for approximately 20 minutes.

However, she stated she twice left the trauma room to take a vial of JFK's blood to the person who would test it for blood type.

Her first vial was thrown out because it had no name on it. She went back to Trauma room 1 and acquired a new vile with Kennedy's name on it which was accepted for testing.

There was so much comings and goings in that small and packed trauma room and everyone was in shock/immediate need mental state, of course most wouldn't think to identify who was in there and/or clearly remember such.

Nurse Hall stated she was pressed up against a wall much of her time in the room.

Nurse Theoy ( only a student nurse ) would not be easily identified. 

What is clear is that both nurses were in trauma room 1 while JFK was being treated in it. How long and in what capacity is hard to access except for their own subjective accounts.

Nurse Theoy saw a bullet on a gurney one floor up from the trauma room 1 floor. The gurney had bloody sheets on it. Theoy was careful to state the gurney could have been used for any number of other medical emergency situations at that time.

If it was a gurney used for JFK or Connally, the question is how did it get up to the second floor.

However, after ER work on Connally he was transported up a floor to the surgery room, correct?

Theoy had a very interesting post Parkland hospital career path. She joins the Army. Incredibly traveled worldwide. After her Army stint she worked for the state department. 

She works in Thailand, Cambodia, Viet Nam, La Paz Bolivia, ( PEKING? ) Washington DC. Fort Belvoir in Fairfax, Virginia?

Not your typical nurse career for sure.

Nurse Theoy seemed very intelligent sounding in this interview, clear headed and honest in her recollecting memory sharing.

So, we have now two eyewitness accounts of bullets seen by two nurses in that half hour of JFK treatment in the Parkland ER.

Nurse Hall says she saw one next to JFK's head and neck area or maybe lodged in the wound area? Nurse Theoy sees one on a gurney just outside the elevator on the floor just above the ER area floor.

On 9/4/2020 at 8:06 AM, Joe Bauer said:

 

 

 

 

 

38:27NOW PLAYING

 

In the above interview of Nurse Hall she describes her memories of the day JFK was wheeled into the Parkland Hospital's Trauma center.

Pretty obvious she was there.

She does relate a few recollections that are not based on facts. I think a failing or confused memory might be the issue.

She mentions the shock and reality power of the event fully hitting her when "his body was taken across the country in a train."  Meaning JFK's? 

Only Robert Kennedy's body was sent on a memorial train ride after his assassination.

I remember viewing this 6th floor history interview several years ago. 

Then again a couple of years later.

The first time I viewed this 6th Floor museum historical project interview of Nurse Hall, I remember her mentioning seeing this bullet that she mentions in the first interview video shown in my first post.

The second time I watched this same history project interview on You Tube this part of her sharing was simply not there. Was this edited out?

A mis-remembering on my part? Possibly. But why wouldn't she mention this bullet observation in her first major public interview?  She obviously felt it was important enough to mention in a later brief hallway interview.

I would like to ask Nurse Hall if she did indeed mention the bullet observation in the original history project interview.

Nurse Hall also states in this interview her belief that there had to have been more than one shooter, that shots came from other locations and the official autopsy photos of JFK's head wounds do not match up with what she observed close up ( she felt JFK's neck and ankle for signs of a pulse ) in Trauma Room 1.

 

Nurse Hall doesn't seem emotionally or mentally off base

 in this interview above. Or exaggerating or overly dramatic

attention seeking.  

 

Nurse Hall was not going to say anything about what she saw in Trauma Room 1 in public.

Nurse Hall's own doctors who worked on JFK were "sternly" warned by their chief doctor not to say anything to the press and even worse, try to make some money off of what they witnessed such as a book or paid article. And if they did he would see to it their careers were on the line.

Nurse Hall also says she was a conservative person. Code word for being against JFK's stances on things like race for sure.

So, again, if Nurse Hall truly did see the bullet she described and where she saw it, next to JFK's head...Houston, we have a problem.

Could prove Landis told the truth?

5 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

I can't see Connally being caught dead in a strip club, much less attending a meeting in one. He was, after all, the governor of the state. In the 1960s, a governor taking the risk of being seen in a strip club was unthinkable. The much more logical place for such a meeting would have been in a private home or in a hotel room. 

Was this meeting a night time one?

Or was it during the day when the club was closed?

I remember viewing an interview of one of the Parkland Hospital ER nurses where she mentions seeing a bullet on JFK's stretcher ( gurney? ) next to his head.

Her name was Phyllis Hall.

If her story is true, some may say it bolsters Landis's claim of placing the bullet he found there.

Here is a link to Nurse Hall's recollection statements.

The bullet next to JFK's head part starts a little after the 2 minute mark of the video.

 

 

 

JFK shooting witness: nurse recalls day President Kennedy was shot in Dallas

4 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

I find this part of Estes's story very hard to believe. Connally was straight-laced. Also, if Connally were going to hold such a meeting, he certainly would not have held it in Ruby's club.

You'd think Connally would have had a "bag man" picking up his payoff money.

Especially a cash one.

However, maybe Jack's place was the better place to do this. A back room where no one could just saunter in. Worst place to do so would be in a more public setting.

Personally it's been hard to avoid posting or mentioning current political doings and sticking to strictly JFKA related topics.

We were allowed to go full tilt posting into the real time Corona virus and political craziness of that experience by our moderators for a good long time. I appreciated that decision.

And I honestly believe that this tolerance of non-JFK posting was done out of sympathy for the unprecedented stress we were all going through due to that massively stressing event.

It was changing our lives in ways we have never experienced before. Understatement of the decade.

Beyond simply worrisome to ominous, life and death fear stuff - 24/7 for years!

It's after effects are still hugely impacting us and will for a long time imo.

We needed to talk about it to relieve some of the nightmare stress we were all feeling and sharing. Even more so than just the JFKA story.

Things are still so crazy politically it's still tempting to want to discuss it all.

However, I think our Mods have done a good job getting us back on track maintaining the JFKA forum integrity and discussion focus.

I posted weeks ago wondering if we would see some distracting new JFK/JFKA story pop up that would garner national news media coverage during the 60th anniversary time period.

Sure enough we get this Landis one.

With shocking yet hard to prove claims regards the provenance of the Magic Bullet and suggestions of multiple gunmen.

However, it just looks and sounds to me like another societal consciousness misdirection ploy to keep the public more confused as ever regarding more important, relevant and hard evidence research JFKA questions that the main-stream media should be re-reporting and asking.

Well, at least we aren't seeing a new "JFK had sex with me" story to demean JFK's character and downplay the importance of his death and who planned it.

And the big brouhaha of Tucker Carlson's big insider source JFK truth reveal national news story many months ago just faded away as I predicted.

I thought Oliver Stone's great and very profitable 1994 film "JFK" might be popping up on national movie selection channels during this major milestone year anniversary ... but so far not a peep.

No "60 Minutes" coverage either I would assume.

The passion for the JFKA truth as well as the RFK and MLK ones is fading out with the generational passage of time and lost interest. As expected.

Us old timer JFKA truth and justice seeking crusaders made a good run of it though...didn't we?

4 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

Your attacks also ignore the many valuable, historic leads that Garrison developed, such as the Clinton-Jackson witnesses who saw Oswald with Ferrie and Shaw. 

Like I stated, Garrison's heroic effort investigation revealed so much important information about Lee Oswald and who he interacted with in his time in New Orleans, without which there would be a huge black hole in the entire story.

The Clinton/Jackson event was just another important reveal part of his investigation.

I simply couldn't list every aspect of his investigative discoveries. Too many for a one or two post entry.

I spend a decent amount of time reading about the American Sicilian Mafia. It's history of origin, progression and influence.

The "Godfather" film trilogy provided a romanticized Hollywood enhanced treatment of the American Sicilian Mafia experience and history. Focused primarily on one powerful leadership family's personal journey it was limited in it's broader historical coverage scope, yet told in such a well scripted, acted, choreographed and scored way it couldn't help but generate more interest in the subject historically.

However, it is an amazing and amazingly ominous fact how the American Sicilian Mafia grew to such levels of power, wealth and influence that they had corrupted every level of government, industry and finance to degrees that are hard to believe. All in a space of just 50+ years!

Presidents, vice presidents ( Agnew ), governors, senators, congressmen, federal agency heads, mayors, city councils, police forces, judges, military and intel agency influence, presidential elections, wealthiest private industry icons ( Texas oil? ), the film industry, labor unions, ... nationwide! 

Stop and think for a minute about that shocking power, wealth and influence growth reality!

RFK's book "The Enemy Within" tried to warn about this unbelievable growth of organized crime and it's influence in the lives of Americans beyond anything the average person could contemplate.

For years, I have proposed many times my opinion that organized crime corruption in America was one of it's top 4 legacies during the 20th century. The century of organized crime at it's peak.

Still, on it's own the American Mafia, even in it's entirety, could not have organized and carried out the JFKA imo.

The whacking of Lee Harvey Oswald right inside of a major police department's own building and in the middle of 70 armed security personnel is another matter ... imo anyways.

16 minutes ago, William Paris said:

28 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

James Earl Ray was a "Thunder Road" type career criminal up until the King killing.

Raised dirt poor, uneducated, one unsophisticated caper after another. 

His hauls were always just one to a few hundred dollars.

J.C. Penny working man dress attire.

Always caught. 

Then his entire lifestyle changes when he escapes from the Missouri State Pen and is not caught. It is extremely rare when major prison escapees are not apprehended within days or a couple of weeks. Let alone poor and uneducated ones.

Yet, remarkably Ray not only stays uncaught ... he immediately acquires new ID and name and then begins a cross country and Mexico traveling adventure and not on a Greyhound bus/YMCA room renting budget.

He's got enough money to support himself with no record of employment during this time. He stays in L.A. for awhile. Takes ball room dance classes as well as a bartending class. He volunteers to help with the George Wallace presidential campaign? 

At some point Ray even pays a plastic surgeon to perform nose job plastic surgery?

Obviously with cash?

Ha! You still with me on this?

He even ventures to Mexican resort towns Acapulco and Puerto Vallarta and passes himself off there as a porn film producer, even ordering expensive film equipment through mail order. 

Where the heck are these first class travel funds coming from?

Ray ends up in Atlanta. Reads newspapers daily. Tracks Martin Luther King's address and travel itinerary.

Buys a two year old Mustang car. Again, how the heck does he come up with a couple of grand for that?

Ray reads that MLK is going to Memphis. Immediately drives himself there as well and knows the perfect location motel to allegedly get one shot at MLK who just happens to be milling about on a second story balcony at the Lorraine motel which places him in the perfect open for Ray to get him in the head.

Ray then leaves his expensive rifle behind and without even wiping his prints off of it ( at least Oswald had more sense than that ) and successfully eludes an army of highest anxiety security forces who have put our multi-state "be on the look out for ) alert and makes it all the way back to Atlanta?

Then Ray makes it to Canada, gets another fake passport that is well made enough to get him to Portugal and England.

Ray is wearing suits and ties which were never his wardrobe thing up until the last year of his life.

Ray was paid well once he escaped from the Missouri State Pen until he was finally apprehended in London.

Whoever paid him did so for a reason. The ultimate reason being the killing of MLK.

The fact that our official investigating agencies could never ascertain who paid Ray throughout his well lived life of travel after his prison escape, through the killing of MLK and his expensive foreign country escape travel is outrageously absurd.

The MLK killing was so obviously a conspiracy it's nuts to think and/or assert otherwise.

IMO anyways.

 

 

Great comment!

Expand  

WP...your thoughts?

James Earl Ray was a "Thunder Road" type career criminal up until the King killing.

Raised dirt poor, uneducated, one unsophisticated caper after another. 

His hauls were always just one to a few hundred dollars.

J.C. Penny working man dress attire.

Always caught. 

Then his entire lifestyle changes when he escapes from the Missouri State Pen and is not caught. It is extremely rare when major prison escapees are not apprehended within days or a couple of weeks. Let alone poor and uneducated ones.

Yet, remarkably Ray not only stays uncaught ... he immediately acquires new ID and name and then begins a cross country and Mexico traveling adventure and not on a Greyhound bus/YMCA room renting budget.

He's got enough money to support himself with no record of employment during this time. He stays in L.A. for awhile. Takes ball room dance classes as well as a bartending class. He volunteers to help with the George Wallace presidential campaign? 

At some point Ray even pays a plastic surgeon to perform nose job plastic surgery?

Obviously with cash?

Ha! You still with me on this?

He even ventures to Mexican resort towns Acapulco and Puerto Vallarta and passes himself off there as a porn film producer, even ordering expensive film equipment through mail order. 

Where the heck are these first class travel funds coming from?

Ray ends up in Atlanta. Reads newspapers daily. Tracks Martin Luther King's address and travel itinerary.

Buys a two year old Mustang car. Again, how the heck does he come up with a couple of grand for that?

Ray reads that MLK is going to Memphis. Immediately drives himself there as well and knows the perfect location motel to allegedly get one shot at MLK who just happens to be milling about on a second story balcony at the Lorraine motel which places him in the perfect open for Ray to get him in the head.

Ray then leaves his expensive rifle behind and without even wiping his prints off of it ( at least Oswald had more sense than that ) races off in his fairly new Mustang and successfully eludes an army of highest anxiety security forces who have put out multi-state "be on the lookout for" alerts which he gets through and makes it all the way back to Atlanta?

Then Ray makes it to Canada, gets another fake passport that is well made enough to get him to Portugal and England.

Ray is wearing suits and ties through all this which were never his wardrobe thing up until the last year of his life.

Ray was paid well once he escaped from the Missouri State Pen until he was finally apprehended in London.

Whoever paid him did so for a reason. The ultimate reason being the killing of MLK.

The fact that our official investigating agencies could never ascertain who paid Ray throughout his well lived life of travel after his prison escape, through the killing of MLK and his expensive foreign country escape travel is outrageously absurd.

The MLK killing was so obviously a conspiracy it's nuts to think and/or assert otherwise.

IMO anyways.

1 hour ago, Greg Wagner said:

Mrs Hernandez and Mrs Vargas may have witnessed related activity the day before: https://gregwagnersite.files.wordpress.com/2019/06/rifle-sighting-on-november-21-1963.pdf

 

Highly recommend opening up the link above and reading this three person eyewitness account of a rifle exchange between two men just below and West of the Texas School Book Depository bldg. the day before 11,22,1963.

The three women were friends who worked together in the same sports wear business close by.

So, with this account we have " 4 " total reporting rifles seen and/or handed off in the area of the Grassy Knoll and right under and just West of the TXSBD the day before and even the day of the JFKA.

The men seen acting like they were target practicing account, the Hernandez, Vargas and Salinas account, the Julia Ann Mercer account and the Ed Hoffman account.

And add on the bringing in of rifles into the TXSBD building itself by a couple of Oswald's co-workers wanting to show them off to each other.

That's a lot of rifles seen in that one specific area in just a short time span right before and the day of JFK's murder.

You'd think there was a gun show going on there.

3 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

Solves everything except, the ships the payricia  Olga and the Nina and was docked in Corpus Christie.    The uss elderidge even briefly appeared off the Texas coast.   Why?   Certainly because it was playing rock music of “I fought the law and the law won”.    

Besides the nefarious ships you mentioned there were also some others ready to go upon orders to again invade Cuba if it could be determined that Castro was behind the JFKA.

There was the "Barbara J." the "Houston" the "U.S.S. Minnow", the "Nina", "Pinta" and "Santa Maria", the HMS "Bounty" and even the "Pacific Princess" which was later the actual boat used as the stage prop for the TV show "Love Boat."

Yes, the U.S.S. Eldridge was also close by if needed but kept fading in and out to the degree it was sent back to the Philadelphia shipyard, where it took welders weeks to free sailors imbedded into the ship's hull.

Just watched again the Seth Kantor testimony segment of the "Trial Of Lee Harvey Oswald" in which famous trial attorney Gerry Spence defends the late Lee Oswald and Charley Manson famous attorney Vincent Bugliosi takes on the prosecutorial role.

One part of their questioning of Seth Kantor intrigued me.

Spence brought up Kantor's Warren Commission sworn testimony account of seeing and talking to Jack Ruby inside the Parkland hospital complex just after JFK was brought to and treated there.

Spence of course believed Kantor's Ruby encounter at Parkland story.

When Bugliosi cross examined Kantor...he never "once" mentioned the Warren Commission finding that Kantor never encountered Jack Ruby at Parkland.

Instead, he framed his questions about Kantor's meet up with Ruby in a way that didn't doubt Kantor met Ruby there...and even asked Kantor about Ruby crying during it!

In so doing, Bugliosi was "affirming" Kantor actually seeing and interacting with Ruby at Parkland that afternoon.

In total disagreement with the Warren Commision finding that Kantor never saw and interacted with Jack Ruby at Parkland the afternoon of 11,22,1963.

A "thank you" shout out to Mr. Bugliosi.

The Warren Commission's dismissing Kantor's account of meeting and conversing with Ruby at Parkland hospital the afternoon of 11,22,1963 is one of the most outrageous credibility damaging actions of their entire investigation.

Yes, RFK's actions regards Garrison and his investigation were perplexing.

Several theories there. None of which embraced by a clear majority consensus.

Also curious to me was how limited Garrison's focus on Carlos Marcello was in the over-all thrust of his investigation direction.

JFK and RFK hater ( to a murderous degree ) Marcello owned and ran Texas and Louisiana organized crime with an absolute iron grip.

Nothing involving high level criminal doings in his fiefdom went down without his approval.

New Orleans was his Royal Court home turf.

Marcello's influence was everywhere. From Mayorships to Governorships.

Crazy Jada stories.

Reportedly Jada liked to smoke marijuana.

And, again reportedly, she made a few runs down into Mexico to procure same.

Upon coming back through customs she would avoid stopping searches by flashing her alluring bare wares underneath the only clothing she was wearing (a fur coat) and apparently wooing the entranced male checkers into appreciative wave throughs.

If true, did she drive her pink Cadillac on those runs? And was her Caddy a convertible?

Jada was definitely a "wild woman" who liked to buck the norms. 

This rebelliousness was obvious in her enthusiastic exhibitionism which Seth Kantor described as animalistic in it's raw, growling energy.

She would go so far in her strip act with overly suggestive sex moves and illegal nudity that even Jack Ruby himself would sometimes shut it down by turning off the lights and stopping the music.

Hard to believe than in her adolescence she was educated in a strict all girls Catholic school environment?

Ruby had himself a Tigress by the tail with Jada. 

Was Ruby so befuddled with this dangerous woman he called some of his old friends in Chicago and Detroit to help him get her out of his life?

Including Chicago Mafia hit man Lenny Patrick, 300 lbs. Jimmy Hoffa lieutenant/body guard Barney Baker and New Orleans Carlos Marcello lieutenant Nofio ( or Norfio? ) Percora?

Who knows?

Jada's wild life end came about when she was killed in a motorcycle accident. A motorcycle she was driving by herself. That was Jada.

8 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

I agree with 95% of what you say about Garrison.

Lou Ivon did urge Garrison to take Ferrie into custody. Instead, Garrison chose to put Ferrie in a hotel after Ferrie said he feared for his life, but Garrison did not assign people to guard Ferrie. 

Ivon correctly sensed the true frantic mental state of Ferry after Ferry called him to tell him he" Ferry" was a dead man walking because his name came out in the press.

How and why Garrison dismissed Ivon's desperate level of concern for their star witness, was both baffling and frustrating for me to watch in the film depiction of it.

Sometimes I wonder if there wasn't some arrogance involved in Garrison's demeanor as "the boss."

Not enough to sway my opinion of him as a brave and courageous hero in his hugely personal sacrificing effort to find the truth.

1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

A couple of points. 

1. Yes, Connally was corrupt. He was exposed as such in the 70's, when a former LBJ assistant turned lobbyist (Jake Jacobsen) testified as to his taking bribes from milk producers. 

 

I also believe Connally was corrupt. I don't think an honest man would have been pulled so closely under LBJ's wing as LBJ himself was supremely corrupt.

A briefcase full of 100 bills? Of course! Cash transaction. No paper trail.

Ruby was several times referred to as a "bag man" for who knows what nefarious groups...Mafia, Intel?

The guy who carried and delivered the cash!

What better out-of-the-way location for such a pay off than Ruby's backroom office?

If there was a Connally payoff, it also proves a connection to Carlos Marcello's New Orleans criminal fiefdom.

Stripper Jada ( Janet Conforto ) came out of Marcello's personal playground of New Orleans sin establishments.

She knew some powerful crime people there.

Surely, some of them hit on her in her famous act there.

She was probably one of the most physically attractive, hottest act strippers in the entire country by that time. She would have put Carol Doda ( I know, Doda was many years later ) to shame if she wanted to bring her act to San Francisco.

Same with any other big city move.

How this top movie star beautiful bundle of raw physical sexual energy stripping star ended up in Ruby's 2nd rate dive joint is another incongruous mystery.

Cheap pay Ruby couldn't keep Jada from walking away. They fought.

Ruby threatened her.

Tough skinned - been around Jada threatened Ruby back...telling him she knew people that would have him on a meat hook if he went too far with his harassment of her. 

Jada even mentioned her problems with Ruby in a nationally broadcast television interview just hours after Ruby whacked Oswald.

In this, she discreetly described her and Ruby's working relationship problems and final blowout as a "slight hassle."

A little class there imo.

Jada also said in that same interview that she knew Jack Ruby previous to her moving to Dallas and working for him at the Carousel.

Which can only mean Ruby did enough traveling and business doings in New Orleans to have met her. And you don't do such things without the knowledge of and permission from the man in charge there...Carlos Marcello.

Garrison's overall effort in trying to uncover sinister doings among politically extreme New Orleans characters regards some culpability in the JFKA including a connection to Lee Harvey Oswald during the spring and summer of 1963 is heroic imo.

Without Garrison's years long investigation, we would never have known anything about Guy Banister, David Ferry, Clay Shaw ( AKA Clay Bertrand ), Jack Martin, Dean Andrews, Reilly Coffee, JFK hating Cuban agents and all their training activity, etc. and all their connections to Lee Oswald.

Garrison's book "On The Trail Of The Assassins" is the one and only seminal reveal read on that world of intrigue surrounding Oswald's New Orleans activities and connections in the super important time period just months before his move to the Dallas area in the fall of 1963.

Imagine if Garrison's investigation and published findings never happened?

Yet, Garrison did make some mistakes ( a few in my opinion ) in his years of working to find the truth. With all the stone walling, misdirection and actual sabotage efforts ( planted spies, planted recorders, planted evidence ) to destroy him and his investigation on the highest levels of agency involvement, who wouldn't have stumbled into some contrived traps and dead ends and fell for some false leads like he did?

Charles Speisel was Garrison's worst trial mistake for sure.

Still can't understand how that guy wasn't vetted more by Garrison's team.

In the Oliver Stone film "JFK" there is a scene where Garrison's lead investigator Lou Ivon expresses great concern for his boss's decision not to protect David Ferry more right after Ferry's name made it to the press regards his involvement in the Garrison investigation.

Ferry was freaking out after his exposure. In the film a frantic Ferry tells Ivon he ( Ferry ) is a dead man now.

Ivon, sensing great danger toward Ferry including his deteriorating mental state, pleads with Garrison to not leave Ferry alone at that critical time.

Ivon tells his boss that Ferry is the entire case!

Garrison decides to ignore Ivon's pleading concerns regards Ferry's personal safety.

Within hours of Garrison letting Lou Ivon's warnings go...Ferry turns up dead in his apartment and is forever lost in the later trial doings.

I don't know if this scene in Stone's film was made up for dramatic effect, or was based on a true part of the real story.

If it was a true account...Garrison's ignoring of Lou Ivon's pleading concerns about Ferry's safety was perhaps his greatest mistake in the case.

4 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Is there a "deep state"?

 

The short answer is no. The state that is working against you that you should be most concerned about is the one that's attempting to economically marginalize your existence or foothold in the middle class. There is nothing "deep" or hidden about this. There are no conferences such as Davos where their sinister plans are carried out in secret. No it's business as usual. 

There are no conspiracies, they just all think alike. They have taken the levers of power from you without firing a shot, without people scarcely knowing how. So in essence calling this "deep" is not taking responsibility for all of us letting it happen over the last 40 years.

Agree. 

And you can rationally say that by a huge majority "they" do think alike.

Their group think is basically summed up in Donald Trump's niece Mary Trump's best seller book title...

"TOO MUCH AND NEVER ENOUGH!"

Just like human psychology academics can come up with general predictive models for all kinds of social behavior starting in childhood (albeit under certain modifying conditions) there are ones that have proven to be accurate to noticeably interesting degrees.

In the realm of accumulators of great wealth and also highest political and military status and even criminal organization leadership it is obvious that many of those who achieve these lofty positions clearly do share common traits.

Just one:

Control freak tendencies.

Even in childhood, these are the kids who want to control the activities and games they initiate with other kids making sure they alone make up the rules and are in charge.

These types won't even play in equal status leadership games or associate with other kids unless they are in charge and the sole activity decision makers.

These control freak kids are aggressive in this behavior. And they can often bend other more compliant kids to their will.

I clearly remember kids I knew and grew up with being like this.

I had my own force of will. I would confront those that tried to boss me.

I had to develop self-defense mechanisms being the youngest of 7 brothers in a fatherless, welfare poor home.

All of whom felt I was the lowest on the totem pole as far as who could tell me what to do and say all the time. My next oldest brother had only one person he could boss around...me!  We fought physically a lot.

Our single mom could only try to break up our constant sibling rivalries ( serious fist fights ) with a broom stick and her largest sized spatula whackings.

I know my take here is non-academic and anecdotal but I trust my assessment of these control freak types as being more valid than not.

I have read many biographies of high wealth and power acquiring persons in our modern history era.

So many fit that control freak trait and from a young age it seems logical to associate them with it more than the huge majority of others in society.

And a large number of these great wealth and power accumulating persons keep that anti-social behavior trait their entire lives!

Like Mary Trump says...their wealth and power accumulation is "never enough!"

The accumulating and increasing of it is an uncontrollable obsession till their dying breath...imo anyways.

And so many heavily invest in and involve themselves in the political world as a means to not just keep their wealth and power, but to increase it.

Texas oil barons during JFK times. You name the richest since then...same thing.

And funding not just politicians who promote their interests, but even the most nefarious even dark criminal actions to enhance their interests.

LBJ was hugely financed by such power people and groups. Nixon too. Bush too.

The ultimate prize in these obsessive power grabs is our Supreme Court.

In 2000 we saw how such a biased court could exercise the benefitting will of such mentors.

They actually stepped in and stopped ( mind boggling ) a Florida Supreme Court approved counting of "all" their states votes in their 2000 presidential election. Only when they ( SCOTUS ) learned the race was tightening with Gore gaining votes by the hour and just a few hundred away from winning!

An unprecedented action, condemned as one of the most constitution mandated Supreme Court power abusing and violating ones ever...and stated as such by Vincent Bugliosi himself!

If you took the top 500 hundred thousand wealthiest Americans ( .15% of our population ) and truly discovered how much they ( as a group ) have invested in influencing our political system in their favor for decades through not just lobbying firms, but manipulation of political candidate choosing with hundreds of billions of dollars, including Supreme Court appointments ... I think it would be fairly easy to understand what the DEEP STATE may be about to a substantial degree.

And for one of our current SCOTUS members to be the willingly accepting recipient of a million dollars worth of giftings from just one ( very active far right wing agenda promoting ) billionaire just highlights how outrageously far this influence corruption has evolved.