4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

I CAN IMAGINE WHAT THIS WILL BE LIKE IF BOBBY DECLARES INDEPENDENT THIS WEEK.

Trying to bite my current political news thoughts and commentary tongue since our moderators imposed sanctions.

I've kept my strong political concern urges to weigh in on such under check fairly well imo.

However, the name "Trump" is in the original post title.

Thrusting Trump into any JFK discussion just upsets my inner core sense of personal character integrity and the differences between the two men in that regards. 

There is a tainting. 

"Grab em by the pu$$y", "heroes don't get captured" and "we feel your pain" ( to the Jan. 6th, 2021 Capital building attacking mob versus the life and death fearing traumatized congress members ) cannot compare to "ask not what your country can do for you", "we all breath the same air" and “I think the American people expect more from us than cries of indignation and attack. The times are too grave, the challenge too urgent, and the stakes too high" in the realm of our most worthy American constitutional democracy honoring, defending and promoting presidential legacies.

And I seriously hope RFK Jr. does not declare a third party candidacy.

It's just what the Republicans are hoping for come this next November, 2024.

14 minutes ago, Michael Crane said:

Joe,

The way that I will answer that is like this...

When you sign up for the Secret Service presidential detail,you know that you are putting your life on the line.It's your job,to put your body in harms way to protect the president over your own.

Knowing that you can get killed by doing this,has to put an incredible amount of fear into a person...but that is your job.That is what you signed up to do.

 

Limo right side front seat passenger SS agent Roy Kellerman sure didn't put his life on the line for JFK.

He heard JFK call out. Turned to see him hit and then just turned back to man the radio and telling Will Greer ... let's get out-a-here!

Kellerman wasn't so old he couldn't have at least "tried" to climb over the metal bar separating him from Connally and JFK.

Clint Hill "did" put his life on the line trying to get to the limo backseat to protect JFK and Jackie from anymore shots. He was 3 seconds too late.

Watching him leap off the SS car, running in wing tips to the Presidential limo and then grabbing onto the back security agent bar handle you can easily see where one slight slip up and he would have been run over.

Then hanging on for dear life to a slippery back trunk hood right as the limo roared off like a rocket.

That was one Secret Service agent that truly did put his life on the line to do his sworn duty.

4 hours ago, Michael Crane said:

Looking back,

I'm going to dismiss my belief of Greer hitting the brakes because of the windshield shot.

That happened way too early in the motorcade route.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

MC, put yourself in Greer's place.

You're hearing shots.

Maybe even felt them coming into the car?

You hear JFK call out in distress.

You turn around while still driving and see that your president has been hit as well as the governor of Texas.

If all that doesn't shake you up to the point of freezing...what would?

If I'm driving the limo and all this is happening around me, I'm going to let up on the gas.

I can only imagine what was going on in Greer's head as he turns his head around and directly facing JFK, sees his head explode into a bloody mass of 6 foot high pink spray.

And hearing Jackie Kennedy cry out loud enough for the Newmans 15 ft. away on the grassy knoll sidewalk to hear her..."OH MY GOD THEY'VE SHOT JACK!"

49 minutes ago, Michael Crane said:

You know Joe,

There is always the possibility that Greer hit the brakes and brought the limo to a crawl or an actual complete stop to let Hill climb on the back.But here is the impression that I am under.....Greer brought the limo to a halt or was at least hitting the brakes.The reason for this is because he was SPOOKED.You heard Kellerman say that a flurry of shots came into the limo.

The bullet that passed through the front windshield caused Greer to panic.He thought that he was driving straight into gunfire.

I'm still on the very edge and undecided if a bullet passed over the windshield from the South Knoll causing the throat wound or a bullet went through the windshield from the South Knoll and hit the throat.

My point about Greer slowing the limo was simply because he had turned his head and upper body 180 degrees backwards to look at JFK right after the first shot.

And he stayed looking back at JFK for at least a full second...right through the head shot.

It is a natural reaction to ease up on the gas pedal when you are the driver of a car ( especially one as big, heavy and cumbersome as the presidential limo) and you aren't just distracted "a little" in your forward driving focus... you are "totally" distracted by turning your head, body 180 degrees looking behind you and you aren't even seeing the road ahead of you.

If I'm driving 10 to 15 miles an hour and turn my body to look behind me of course I'm going to ease up on the pedal as a natural caution reaction.

Jenkins is quoted describing JFK's brain stem being cut in a way that was not typical...but my question is did Jenkins actually see either Humes or Boswell doing the cut? 

Same thing with a cutting of the temporal muscles and eye nerves at the front of JFK's brain so the brain could be removed without those attachments holding it back?

I would ask Jenkins if he personally witnessed those two cutting procedures as well. And by whom?

Jenkins mentions Humes spontaneous surprise blurt out upon removing JFK's brain from the cranium..."the damn thing just fell into my hands."

Why would Humes be so surprised? If he had already cut the brain stem, the eye nerves, the temporal muscles and much of the sheath covering the brain... all connective tissue that holds back the brain, wouldn't he expect JFK's brain to come out easily?

I thought Hubert Clark mentioned LeMay as saying the "that's not my commander in chief" comment. I'll go back. I don't think LeMay was in that landed plane, casket movement scene.

It was general McHugh that Clark quoted...I stand corrected.

Perhaps McHUGH meant that JFK was his commander in chief...not that MFer Lyndon Johnson?

7 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Thanks for your work in this topic. 

Don't know how to access Twitter.

Ms. Spencer, could you share this "knock your socks off" news about this guy A. P. Aispuro on the forum?

14 hours ago, Michael Crane said:

Even if this is not related...it's interesting IMHO.

Give yourself some time to take it all in.

This might not be the video where he mentions the flap.

I've viewed this video probably two or three times in the past.

Jenkins states he doesn't believe the brain he saw was that of JFK. Wow!

I would have asked Jenkins if he witnessed Humes or Boswell actually cutting the brain stem of the brain? 

Jenkins stated that Humes just blurted out when holding what was supposedly JFK's brain that "the damn thing just fell into my hands!"?

Former military honor guard ( army, navy or marine? ) and former 22 year New York PD detective Hubert Clark mentioned he and his team being aggressively pushed away from carrying the big ornate and heavy bronze Dallas casket off the tarmac elevator and how he felt there was a nefarious reason for this action. That in his opinion the casket was empty.

He also mentioned an ominous statement General Godfrey McHugh said in the bustle of getting the bronze casket off the plane and into the waiting grey navy ambulance. Something about "this is my commander in chief...not that MFer." ?

What in the world was that about? Hubert Clark was not given the chance to go back and elaborate on that part of his story.

In just viewing and listening to the question part of the talk, I noticed Judyth Vary Baker was one of the questioners. And I believe I recognized the voice of James Fetzer as one of the questioners as well?

My take on Jenkin's take was that he believed there was some nefarious doings with JFK's body besides what he witnessed of Humes's autopsy.

Jenkins mentioned seeing saw marks in JFK's skull that were not made by Humes or Boswell.

Jenkins thinks Paul O'Conner may have been wrong in his recollections of JFK's brain being essentially just a macerated mess of goo. With Paul O'Conner perhaps mistakenly effected by the shock of the whole scene?  Disagree with Jenkins on that point.

Interesting that the one deposition Jenkins was ordered to give was so argumentatively presented he eventually walked out!

Bomb shell presentation.

I always wondered why there wasn't more of a flap about the flap.

Now, notice in the enlarged flap blowout pics you posted MC ( all 3 ) how SS agent limo driver Will Greer is turned fully around and looking "directly" at JFK all during the head shot hit and skull explosion.

He told the Warren Commission he turned back around before this.

These film clips prove otherwise.

Also, you don't turn your head and upper body 180 degrees and look in back of yourself while driving a 6 to 7,000 pound moving vehicle without letting up on the gas pedal. Greer did just that. 

Hence the limo almost stopping right before the JFK head shot.

4 hours ago, Michael Crane said:

Maybe they can try from these images.Once again,I got hit with the file being too big.

 

 

Thank you Michael Crane!

Does that look like a back of skull ( occipital ) blowout?

This close up shows a powerful explosion of blood and matter emanating from an area above and slightly to the right of JFK's right-side ear.

To me anyway.

23 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Showing the Zapruder film for the 8,550th time again but in regards to the actual JFK head wounds I ask that you go back to the very basic real time visual evidence and ask you to describe what "you" see?

In the micro-second of the head shot I see a huge blowout of skull and scalp close to but just above and to the right of JFK's right-side ear!

A major section of scalp and skull starting from just above the ear and continuing to a right-side temporal area.

A huge piece blowout.

I see this exploded out piece coming off as a "flap" of hair and bone. A flap that remained attached to JFK's skull.

In the Z film one can easily see the pink spray cloud emanating from this blowout as well as the pink matter exposed underneath by the blowout.

It is all brightly illuminated in the direct noon time sun. You can even see a "glistening" from all the blood and fluid that was just underneath the blown off skull.

Now, how this upper right side skull blowout connects to or in any way contradicts a rear occipital blowout I cannot say. 

I do wonder however, if Jackie Kennedy may have pulled up the blown out "flap" on JFK's upper right-side head, to try to piece back together her husband's skull?

What I see in the bright pink, bloody spray right of the ear blowout Z film footage confuses me.

I my opinion it seems so obvious as to my blown off flap and it's location description being correct.

Closest Dealey Plaza grassy knoll sidewalk bystander witness Bill Newman ( 15 feet away when the head shot occurred ) always described a much more upper right side of the skull blow out wound as I do.

He said something like "we seen his ear blowed off." Which was specifically inaccurate upon close visual study, but was still far from describing a much farther back right rear blowout.

Clint Hill described a large blowout hole farther back from JFK's right ear and with a large amount of brain matter missing from it's interior. And Hill was just inches away from JFK's head?

Does anyone else here see the JFK skull flap blowout as I describe and it's just above but to the right of JFK's right side ear temporal location upon looking closely at the Z film below?

And I have to assume that at least some of the Parkland doctors eventually viewed the Z film. If they did, they would clearly see this major brain matter exposing skull flap blow out above JFK's right ear, right? I would have liked to have viewed the Z film with them and asked them what they think they were seeing in regards to it?

 

0:33

NOW PLAYING

 

 

Zapruder Film Restored HD

 

 

Wonder if one of our resident forum members who knows how to technically effect still frames of videos could get a close up of the one or two Z film ones that clearly depicts the upper right side JFK skull blowout flap as I described in my post above?

It's clear to me but still so small in the view finder I could understand skeptics saying it's too hard to prove what exactly those frames show.

A lot to ask of someone else's time and effort I know. 

Showing the Zapruder film for the 8,550th time again but in regards to the actual JFK head wounds I ask that you go back to the very basic real time visual evidence and ask you to describe what "you" see?

In the micro-second of the head shot I see a huge blowout of skull and scalp close to but just above and to the right of JFK's right-side ear!

A major section of scalp and skull starting from just above the ear and continuing to a right-side temporal area.

A huge piece blowout.

I see this exploded out piece coming off as a "flap" of hair and bone. A flap that remained attached to JFK's skull.

In the Z film one can easily see the pink spray cloud emanating from this blowout as well as the pink matter exposed underneath by the blowout.

It is all brightly illuminated in the direct noon time sun. You can even see a "glistening" from all the blood and fluid that was just underneath the blown off skull.

Now, how this upper right side skull blowout connects to or in any way contradicts a rear occipital blowout I cannot say. 

I do wonder however, if Jackie Kennedy may have pulled up the blown out "flap" on JFK's upper right-side head, to try to piece back together her husband's skull?

What I see in the bright pink, bloody spray right of the ear blowout Z film footage confuses me.

I my opinion it seems so obvious as to my blown off flap and it's location description being correct.

Closest Dealey Plaza grassy knoll sidewalk bystander witness Bill Newman ( 15 feet away when the head shot occurred ) always described a much more upper right side of the skull blow out wound as I do.

He said something like "we seen his ear blowed off." Which was specifically inaccurate upon close visual study, but was still far from describing a much farther back right rear blowout.

Clint Hill described a large blowout hole farther back from JFK's right ear and with a large amount of brain matter missing from it's interior. And Hill was just inches away from JFK's head?

Does anyone else here see the JFK skull flap blowout as I describe and it's just above but to the right of JFK's right side ear temporal location upon looking closely at the Z film below?

And I have to assume that at least some of the Parkland doctors eventually viewed the Z film. If they did, they would clearly see this major brain matter exposing skull flap blow out above JFK's right ear, right? I would have liked to have viewed the Z film with them and asked them what they think they were seeing in regards to it?

9 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Who were following the dictates of higher ups at the State Department.

I second that question.

J. Edgar H. ... correct?

Dazzle and Debut tended to Lancer and Lace?

Dagger tended to Volunteer in the Varsity?

Dusty remained in the halfback?

Digest was in the SS 100 X?

Where was Deacon during the Dealey Plaza debacle?

And where the heck were Domino and Duplex? Back in DC?

Deciphering all those "D" letter code names was definitely discombobulating.

15 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

"Robenhalt [sic] helped former Secret Service agent Paul Landis "process his memories" of the JFK Assassination, enabling Landis to write his memoir The Final Witness (2023)."

I'm sorry, but the above quote made me laugh out loud.

Robenhalt helped Paul Landis ... "process his memories?"

I pictured Robenhalt ( and a "helper/associate" ?) seating Landis down into a big, soft leather, back lowered recliner in a darkened room and saying:

"Now Paul ... I want you to close your eyes. Close your eyes ... and relax."

"Relax Paul ... that's it ... relax your mind"

"That's it ... relaaax."

"Now listen to the tick-tock of the clock on the wall Paul ... tick-tock ... tick-tock ... tick-tock ... that's it ... relaaax."

"Now, you're going back in time Paul - back in time. Back to November 22nd, 1963, in Dallas, Texas ... back to riding through a sunny bright and warm Dealey Plaza and standing on the outside footrest of your big SS car."

"Now Paul, tell us what you are seeing ... hearing ... feeling?"

"Now you've arrived at Parkland hospital Paul. What are you seeing ... feeling ... doing?"

"You see a lighter on the back seat of the presidential limo? Jackie Kennedy's pink hat as well? You pick them up?

What else do you see Paul? What else ... remember!

"GD it ... what else did you find in or on that back seat Paul?"

Sometimes after years of heavy and sometimes depressing serious thought and study of the JFKA, you gotta take a break ... and laugh.

Can't believe how the main MSM is lapping this particular story up and hugely reporting it with such continuous hyped-up serious coverage. Especially when it is so unprovable.

Again I say that someone wanting this weakly credible story and book to get the ridiculously over-reported coverage it is getting sure has a big in with some very powerful news editors of our most powerful MSM entities.

22 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

You’re right, Micah. Bell doesn’t mention the location of the head wound; and like you said, she mentions that she saw the wound either immediately after or while she was positioning the tracheotomy tray for Dr. Perry. That places Bell, with Perry, right next to JFK’s head. It seems plausible, though not conclusive, that Perry pointed out the wound to her, perhaps to point out the futility in what they were doing. 

There may be other reasons to doubt Bell’s later claims, but this article isn’t one of them. Good find. 

Yes, good find.

Bell admits that the trauma to her psyche was so great she experienced some amnesia.

The following however, does sound like she was being honest.

She admits it may have been Dr. Robert McClelland who in some way drew her attention to the JFK head wound.

Dr. McClelland was at the head of the table and a mere 18 inches from JFK's skull and the massive wound there.

During Harrison Livingstone's 1992 Dallas conference, Audrey Bell said "I remember Dr. Perry turned Kennedy's head to show me the wound", she then turned to Dr. McClelland and said "or it could've been you". McClelland didn't give a reply, but nevertheless, the interaction suggests an air of honesty.

So, what is going to come of Landis's so-called bombshell JFK limo full bullet finding and JFK gurney planting claims story outside of it giving his book a higher sales volume boost?

It will not inspire any new investigative efforts.

It will not inspire any major debate or discussion on national radio, TV or even on the internet. No major media newspaper editorials.

It will be old and forgotten news in one month or so. 

American's under the age of 50 who may see or hear about this Landis book will simply be more confused as ever regards what they may have read or heard about the JFKA and the "Magic Bullet" story the last 50 years.

A non-important nothing burger in their more immediate need tackling priority daily lives.

Not one person who might have seen or otherwise known what Landis claims he found and did and given his story even a little corroboration is even alive.

His story is impossible to prove or disprove.

It's as fleetingly gripping as a National Enquirer headline story.

His publisher should have added to the book title the word "Killing."

Bill O'Reilly has made a fortune ( over $20,000,000 ) selling his line of books, all of which have the word "Killing" in their titles. It's a good gimmick! Really grabs the reader.

Landis should have latched onto O'Reilly's shtick.

His book would probably be a much better seller if it's title was something like

"Killing The Magic Bullet Myth."                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

Prouty was an incredibly important and commendable truth revealing protagonist in the JFKA and beyond story of the century imo.

A man of superior intelligence required lifelong highest responsibility achievement so numerous and varied and almost always in service to his country it's ludicrously illogical and even childishly irresponsible to try to broad brush paint him as simply a "nutcase."

A normal human flawed hero in my book.

4 hours ago, David G. Healy said:

round two with adenocarcinoma, but holding up my friend... AND, thank you for pressing...

 

May you be surrounded with compassionate caring feelings and thoughts through whatever you are going through. If human thoughts and feelings can transcend time and space on a spiritual plane...you will be.

On 4/6/2023 at 12:03 PM, W. Niederhut said:

       Since our new forum member Michael Griffith has ignored my advice about studying the Education Forum archival discussions about Col. L. Fletcher Prouty and his long-time USAF colleague, General Ed Lansdale, I am taking the unusual step of presenting some of the exemplary EF archival material about Prouty to Griffith, and others, on the subject.

       Firstly, I have been reviewing the EF archives, and I have discovered that the best source of accurate information about Fletcher Prouty in the archives is Greg Burnham, a long-time member of the forum, who knew Fletcher Prouty, personally, and has extensive knowledge about Prouty's life and work.

       For starters, here is Mr. Burnham's March 31, 2015 biographical post about the man CIA propagandists have been referring to for decades as a "crackpot."

       It's worth reading, along with Prouty's lengthy letter to his former boss, General Victor Krulak, on the subject of Ed Lansdale.  (Up Next)

 

On March 31, 2015 Greg Burnham wrote:

 

This is not the biography of a nut:

BIOGRAPHY

Col. L. Fletcher Prouty (USAF, Retired)

Born: Springfield, Mass., January 24, 1917. Attended public schools. President, High School Student Government. Member, undefeated Golf Team. Vocalist with Big Bands, sang in most large dance halls, hotels and colleges in Northeast. Graduate: Mass. State College 1941, A.B. degree and 2nd Lt. Commission, U.S. Cavalry.

June 1941

Began military career with 4th Armored Division, Pine Camp, NY. At Communications Officer School, Ft. Knox, KY, on December 7, 1941[Pearl Harbor]. Transferred to Air Force 1942. Earned Pilot's wings November, 1942. Arrived British West Africa [Ghana], February 1943 as pilot with Air Transport Command.

Assigned to V.I.P. flying, summer 1943. Personal pilot for Gen. Omar Bradley, Gen. J. C. H. Lee and Gen. C. R. Smith (Founder and President - American Airlines), among others. Landed U.S. Geological Survey Team in Saudi Arabia, Oct 1943, to confirm oil discoveries for Cairo Conference.

 

Assigned special duties at Cairo and Teheran Conferences, November-December 1943. Flew Chiang Kai Shek's Chinese delegation (T.V. Soong's delegates) to Teheran.

 

Chief Pilot (1,200 pilots), Cairo for Air Transport Command. Led special air mission into Soviet Union, and others into Turkey, 1944. Evacuated "Guns of Navaronne" British commandos from Turkey to Palestine. Assisted in capture of leader of German Gold smuggling ring (The actor, Bruce Cabot) in Turkey and Cairo. Led large flight of transport aircraft to Turkish-Syrian border to evacuate 750 American POW's and OSS-selected Ex-National Socialist Intelligence experts from the Balkans, September 1944. The first "overt" Cold War mission.

 

1945

Transferred to SW Pacific, flew in New Guinea, Leyte and was on Okinawa at end of war.

 

Landed near Tokyo at surrender with first three planes carrying Gen. MacArthur's bodyguard troops. Flew out with American POWs. Photographed Hiroshima, that date.

 

 

1946-49

Assigned by Army to Yale University to begin first USAF ROTC program. Taught "Aeronautics" and "Evolution of Warfare". Transferred to U.S. Air Force ROTC headquarters to write college text books. Wrote the college textbook on "Aeronautics" and another on "Rockets and Missiles".

 

 

1950-52

Transferred to Colorado Springs to establish Air Defense Command. There, Director, Personnel Planning for Command (77,000 men) and first to put personnel records on Computer. Attended Nuclear Weapons school, Sandia, N.M. Selected for Air Force Command and Staff College, Montgomery, Ala.

 

1952-54

Assigned to Korean War duties in Japan. Military Manager, Tokyo International Airport (Haneda) during Occupation. Commander, Military Air Transport Service, Heavy Transport Squadron responsible for military and diplomatic flights from Tokyo to Saudi Arabia and back, in addition to daily flights to Korea, Honolulu and Pacific Islands. Founder, Tokyo Toastmasters Club.

 

Attended, JCS operated Armed Forces Staff College, Norfolk, 1955

 

1955-1964

Assigned to Headquarters, U.S. Air Force and directed to create an Air Force world-wide system for "Military Support of the Clandestine Operations of the CIA", as required by a new National Security Council Directive, 5412 of March, 1954. Wrote this policy in conjunction with Air Force General Counsel and CIA's General Counsel. Set up a TOP SECRET world wide support force and communications system. Was sent around the world by the Director, Central Intelligence, Allen W. Dulles, to meet the CIA Station Chiefs, 1956. Directed Air Force participation in countless CIA operations during this period.

As a result of a CIA Commendation for this work, awarded the Legion of Merit by the Air Force.

Photo: Colonel Prouty receiving the Legion of Merit

 

Promoted to Colonel and assigned to the Office of the Secretary of Defense to carry out this same type of work for all military services. Assigned to the Office of Special Operations.

 

With the creation of the Defense Intelligence Agency by Secretary McNamara and the abolishment of the OSO, was transferred to the Office of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to create a similar, world-wide office and was the Chief of Special Operations, with the Joint Staff all during 1962-1963.

 

1963

 

Received orders to travel as the Military Escort officer for a group of VIPs who were being flown to the South Pole.

 

Nov 10 - Nov 28, 1963, to activate a Nuclear Power plant for heat, light and sea water desalination at the U.S. Navy Base at McMurdo Sound, Antarctica.

 

Retired as Colonel, U.S. Air Force, 1964 and was awarded one of the first three Joint Chiefs of Staff Commendation Medals by General Maxwell Taylor, Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff.

 

1964-1965

VP International Operations, General Aircraft Corporation... a company created by MIT and Harvard specialists that designed and built aircraft that were used by the CIA and Army Special Forces.

 

1965-1968

VP-Manager, Pentagon Branch, First National Bank, Arlington, VA, later VP-Marketing, 1965-1968. VP-Marketing, Madison National Bank, Washington, DC, 1968-1971.

Graduate, Graduate School of Banking, University of Wisconsin, 1966 - 1968.

 

Charter Member, American Bankers Association committee for Automation, Planning and Technology to develop plans to convert all U.S. banks to automation, including the Federal Reserve System.

 

President, Financial Marketing Council of Greater Washington, D.C. Member, Advertising Club of Washington, D.C.

 

1971 AMTRAK, as Manager, created nationwide Government and Military Marketing organization. Senior Director, Public Affairs, corporate speechwriter for Presidents and members of the Board, 1972-1982. Retired.

 

Author, Public Speaker, radio and TV, 1950 to present. Book "The Secret Team", Prentice-Hall, 1973, and paperback by Ballantine, 1974.

http://assassinationofjfk.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/stphoto.jpg

 

Worked with all major USA TV networks, and with BBC-TV, CBC-TV, Japanese, Canadian, Australian Broadcast Commission and many others.

 

For McGraw-Hill Scientific Encyclopedia wrote "Railroad Engineering" section, and for its "Scientific Yearbook-1982" yearbook, wrote "Foreign Railroad Technology".

 

For Traffic Quarterly and Congressional Record, wrote "Transportation at the Crossroads", July 1981.

 

Numerous magazine articles from New Republic to Air Force, Gallery, Genesis, and Freedom magazines.

 

Consultant: Rail Transportation for Northrop Services Inc., Northrup Corp. and for Ohio Rail Transportation Authority. Assisted Chairman, Joint Economics Committee of the Congress to set up International Hearings and to write "Rail Passenger Services Act of 1981".

 

At request of Oliver Stone, worked as Creative Advisor (1990-1991) on production of his film "JFK" and was the original for "Man X" character played by Donald Sutherland.

 

 

 

Book, "JFK, the CIA, Vietnam and the Plot to Assassinate John F. Kennedy" published by Birch Lane Press, 1992.

 

Memberships:

 

Director, National Railroad Foundation and Museum

National Press Club, and Foundation

Rotary Club of Washington, formerly a Director

Member, Society of Historians for American Foreign Relations

Family:

Wife: Elizabeth

Son: David

Daughter: Jane

Daughter: Lauren

 

Additional data:

a) By direction of the Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara, a Founder, of the International Air Traffic Controllers Assn.

 

b ) Founder, Tokyo Toastmasters Club

 

c) A Charter member, American Bankers Assn, Committee of Automation Planning and Technology.

 

d) A graduate of the American Bankers Assn, Graduate School of Banking, University of Wisconsin.

 

e) Guest Lecturer, American University.

 

f) Staff, Cairo Conference, 1943

 

g) Staff, Teheran Conference, 1943

Prouty's life-time of highest level achievement is so remarkable in it's broadness it's mind blowing. 

Surely only the top 5% of Americans ever achieve what Prouty achieved in his combined stellar military and later civilian life.

If Prouty fits the definition of "nutcase" the rest of us must be hapless cretins.

Who cares if Groubert displays some showmanship in his presentations.

So did Mort Sahl!

He's easier to watch and listen to not just because he really has interesting and imo insightful takes on so many JFKA related issues but also because he injects some humor into them that I personally find intelligently funny.

I really like what Groubert has to say regards this Ropenalt guy. Ropenalt's background is so clearly revealing of what Groupert suggests.

Landis seems clueless and guided.

Someone big behind the scenes has created, financed and is running this whole "bombshell" book affair and probably for the reasons Groupert suggests.

43 minutes ago, Michael Crane said:

 

MC...the McClelland comments scribbled to the right of his JFK head wound sketch are clearly qualified as "guesses" by McClelland!

He isn't stating with any certainty the bullet entry location.

He clearly uses the word "probably" and also states honestly that "I did not see this" in regards to any clearly seen bullet entry ID.

He shouldn't have even wrote this on the paper. Even he admits his view on the entry wound location is a speculation versus medical examination proven fact.

1 hour ago, Michael Crane said:

The only thing that I can add is,that it was Boswell who was responsible for weighing the brain.

On this occasion,instead of Jenkins doing the work on the organs & Boswell writing down weights & measurements,it was the complete opposite.

Can you elaborate on this a little more MC?

I'm wondering what your point is regards JFK's brain weight not being taken and recorded as standard procedure would require.

And who was most responsible for that significantly important negligence?

Sounds like Humes was over his head in certain aspects of the autopsy. He had what, only "2" bullet wound autopsies in his career up until his being called to autopsy JFK? In Hawaii he claimed?

He felt he needed the help of two other more experienced pathologists to assist him? 

Seemed even Humes's two assisting navy medical corpsmen knew more about skull cutting brain removal procedure that he did.

Too bad the hugely more experienced pathologist Dr. Earl Rose in Dallas didn't tackle the autopsy of JFK. I would guess he wouldn't have felt he needed two other pathologists to help him in that task.

Pat, I respectfully disagree.

In this interview, seated right next to Dr. McClelland, is another Parkland hospital surgeon Dr. Jones.

He was just feet from Dr. McClelland during JFK's emergency medical treatment.

He is listening to Dr. McClelland's commentary including McClelland's very detailed description of JFK's "back of the head" wound and how much of JFK's brain was missing and more brain matter still oozing out onto "the cart" upon which JFK was laying.

McClelland's details were so specific, he even mentioned watching part of JFK's "cerebellum" falling out of that wound!

Never once did Dr. Jones even look like he was in anyway uncomfortable with or disagreeing with what his fellow hands-on JFK treatment Parkland ER doctor was describing. 

I think McClelland easily could have misremembered certain details in his decades of many interviews as any person would, especially into their older age.

But the "core" of his descriptive remembrance sharing does not shift as far as you express it does imo.

I would assume that every doctor present in Trauma Room 1 while JFK was being attended to that day has had misremembrances over their lifetimes and even made occasional contradictory statements regards everything from entrance wounds, brain damage/loss, vital sign activity, Jackie Kennedy's actions, you name it. Especially if they chose to be interviewed many times about what they witnessed. Many of those doctors never allowed themselves to be interviewed at all. Malcolm Perry for one, correct?

Almost every doctor attending to JFK in Trauma Room 1 the afternoon of 11,22,1963 was in their youthful 30's mental acuity prime on that day.

And they were hands-on witnessing the most shocking and memorable event of their lives and the rest of their lives.

10's of thousands of men who were engaged in hand-to-hand combat situations in war such as WW II, Korea and Viet Nam and who are interviewed 40, 50 even 60 years later often say they can remember every detail they witnessed in the bloodiest heat of battle they were a part of even that many years past.

The human brain, when experiencing a life and death first-hand trauma goes into hyper-energized adrenaline rush mode.

Memory sensors included.

Any doctor or other witness to JFK's head and head wound as close up as McClelland was to them and who claims something different than what McClelland states has the exact same liabilities of long ago experience memory loss and misremembering as him.

If one wants to impugn the veracity of highly trained and experienced professionals talking about something they directly witnessed ( lifetime shocking ) in their specific field of work from 60 years past, I am sure they can find misstatements or contradictories with all of them to a certain but not always a significant story changing degree.

I simply feel that McClelland's main core sharing of what he saw up close regards JFK's head and head wound in Trauma Room 1 on 11,22,1963 was consistent and as believable as any other JFK attending doctor's sharing of what they witnessed that day.

The bullet entry and exit stuff is so subjective and speculative due to many factors such as the shattering of JFK's skull into so many pieces, some of which were even blown off and away. 

Bullet hole ID into a shattered skull like JFK's was too difficult to determine definitively. Like looking at a puzzle with missing pieces?

Too many JFK treating witnesses got trapped when asked to "speculate" about bullet entry and exit locations showing up on skull bone pieces.

Their conclusions on that specific subject were obviously contradictory.

Same with asking witnesses whether they believed there was just one gunman, whether they believed the Warren Commission findings, how they felt about Jim Garrison and his investigation etc.

Those questions and their answers to them are not at all relevant to their hands-on / right there JFK injury observation sharings and the veracity of such imo.

In the end, I believe McClelland's personal observation memory sharings of his Trauma Room 1 JFK treating experience on 11,22,1963 as much as any other doctor in that room that day and even more so Navy Commander Humes's regarding his work on JFK at Bethesda.

Start at the 13 minute mark of the interview video I am posting and hear Parkland surgery doctor Robert McClelland describe "in detail" the wound in the back of JFK's head and how much of JFK's brain matter was truly missing.

The man was just "18 inches" from JFK's skull in his position at the top of the table upon which JFK was laying. And he remained there for what 15, 20 or even 30 minutes?

What other Dr. or other witnesses to see JFK's head that close up within minutes of it's obliteration can one suggest to have had a better view of it, it's wound and brain matter loss including watching brain matter fall out of it right onto the cart/table underneath than Dr. McClelland?

McClelland's fellow surgeon Dr. Jones was right there just a couple of feet away from McClelland at JFK's side in Trauma Room 1 that day and in this interview he doesn't contradict one thing Dr. McClelland describes.

Bethesda Dr. Commander Humes said he didn't know why he nor anyone else failed to weigh JFK's brain upon his removal of it in his autopsy procedure. A procedure so standard in autopsies of criminal action head wound victims it is ludicrous that such an arrogantly confident man like Humes or even assisting Dr. Boswell could have missed this top priority criminal case evidence procedure just by forgetfulness.

Imo it suggest they purposely avoided weighing JFK's brain because it was too significantly blown out.

"The damn thing just fell out into my hands!"

Assisting Bethesda medical corpsman James Jenkins quoted a startled Humes as saying upon removing JFK's brain.

Dr. McClelland's description of the JFK back of the head wound and how much of JFK's brain was honestly missing (including more oozing out during JFK's ER treatment and even the chunk Jackie Kennedy held in her hand to give to another doctor there with McClelland) matches what Bethesda Navy Corpsman Paul O'Conner ( a trained brain removal technician ) described in sworn testimony.

That "for all essential purposes most of JFK's brain was gone!"

It seems to me that Hickey didn't raise his automatic rifle until after the JFK head shot.

And Clint Hill himself was in the line of fire when Hickey started blasting away...correct?