Joe Bauer

I would assume Washington Post Editor and longtime friend of JFK Ben Bradlee's wife Tony ( Mary Meyers sister ) would know if JFK and Mary were intimate. Same with Bradlee himself.

They knew about Mary's RED book and ran to her garage/studio to find it the day Meyer was murdered. The spectral CIA man James Angleton beat em to it.

I would think the only thing ( the main thing ) that could motivate both parties to so quickly make a frantic trespass dash to MM's place would be to see if Mary Meyer had mentioned JFK in that red book of hers.

What other important secret could inspire such an immediate and stealthy search? I doubt if there were any others they were expecting to find.

Did Bradlee ever mention or even hint in his memoirs of such a relationship between Mary Meyer and JFK?

23 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Okay. And likewise, you should google something like "wtc controlled demolition" to learn what really happened on 9/11.

 

 

You said that family members have revealed that JFK was a serial adulterer. To which I replied that I would take their words seriously.

So what happened to them? Don't exist, eh?

As I said, I wouldn't trust the word of the mistresses themselves, but for kicks and giggles I checked those four out. Here's what I discovered:

Mary Pinchot Meyer:  According to the Wikipedia article on her, "More than ten years after Pinchot Meyer's death, rumors of her affair with Kennedy began to circulate." Gee, it took a decade for that rumor to begin. Regardless, National Enquirer and Washington Post "confirmed" the affair (whatever that is supposed to mean) to the satisfaction of the Wikipedia editors. So I guess maybe that affair really took place. (Or maybe not. I'd like to see how the affair was confirmed.)

Ellen Rometsch:  According to the Wikipedia article on her, Rometsch was allegedly an East German spy who "was widely thought in some Washington journalism circles to have been a mistress of President John F. Kennedy. However, the FBI never turned up 'any solid evidence' that Rometsch was a spy or that she had relations with President Kennedy." No evidence.

Mimi Alford:  According to the Wikipedia article on her, "Mimi Alford is an American woman who allegedly had an affair with President John F. Kennedy while she served as an intern in the White House press office between 1962 and 1963." Allegedly.

Judith Exner:  According to the Wikipedia article on her, "[David] Powers ... stated that Kennedy never had an affair with Exner. Never.

 

Don't forget E. Howard Hunt's end of life confessional where he also claimed that JFK took Cord Meyer's ex-wife as a lover.  Inferring that Meyer had a deep resentment toward JFK personally.

Mimi Alford herself claimed JFK had sex with her and even encouraged her to service his aide/friend Dave Powers while he watched.

Why is there hardly any mention of J. Edgar Hoover's scandalous sex life?

LBJ was a life-long sexual predator, even fathering at least one child by someone other than his wife Lady Bird.

It's never anyone but JFK, RFK, MM.

Thank you JB for posting the article in it's entirety.

The upcoming 60th anniversary of the JFKA is drawing out much more major media lone nut promoting/conspiracy debunking propaganda pieces than I imagined. Definitely more than the last 9 anniversary years since the 50th.

Many more JFKA articles.

A JFKA related national venue TV series: "JFK: One Day In America."  Not sure of it's content thrust however.

And of course this new book out by JFK Dallas motorcade SS agent Paul Landis? A quasi conspiracy suggesting tome. More an exaggerated smoking gun almost "National Enquirer" sensational headline piece centered around an unprovable premise. IMO anyways.

Below you can link to the latest Texas high society publication "Texas Monthly" and their just published JFKA article by writer Sean O'Neal. 

It's typical conspiracy kook centric claptrap...again imo. 

I credit former forum member Robert Morrow for sharing this.

On 12/12/2020 at 11:33 PM, Joseph McBride said:

For what it's worth, Rupert Allan, Marilyn's longtime publicist, when I asked

him how he thought she died, told me she had little bottles of Champagne

around her room and would guzzle them. He said the night she

died, he thought she drank them with too many pills. He said she

told him she was upset because Peter Lawford had invited her to

his Santa Monica house along with a bunch of call girls and that she

thought Lawford and his set thought of her as in the same category.

Rupert's account of the drink and pills doesn't explain the absence of drugs in her stomach. Rupert told me

an interesting story she told him: When she was in the New York hospital after her

"miscarriage" when she was married to Arthur Miller, she was thinking of

committing suicide by jumping out of her eighth-floor window. But she

looked out and saw a woman in a green coat standing at a bus stop and

decided not to jump because she might land on the woman and kill her.

Wondering what to make of these second hand claims J. McBride recounts in his post regards MM and her death above.

If there was an absence of drugs in MM's stomach, does that nullify Rupert Allan's take on her death cause?

6 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Let me tell you, people think Los Angeles is a "liberal" city, but back in the 1950s and 1960s it was hard right, with deep affinity with defense industries. And Orange County just south of L.A., was even more so. 

Orange County names their airport after John Wayne?

Sam Yorty...man of the people.

44 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

As I thought.   People want evidence and when they get it they can’t accept it.   Oh geez lol. 

So CS...you are proposing the Smith letter is evidence that Bobby K. and MM had been lovers?

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Maybe "being an item" meant something different than it did when I first became aware of it, in the 1980s.

 

Was that comment about MM and Bobby "being an item" a biting accusatory charge...or a more innocent ( if somewhat sarcastic ) joke that suggested the humor of the salacious scandal hungry press perhaps making such a visit into one?

Gregory states he just kind of froze when he first heard about JFK being shot and then watching Walter Cronkite announce his death on a TV at the University with many other students sitting on the carpeted floor of some room there.

He says when he watched news footage of Oswald in custody he again couldn't share with others his first-hand knowledge of and contact with Lee and his wife.

He also says he watched Jack Ruby blow Oswald's guts out on live national TV...as I did as a 12 year old in Pacific Grove, California back on 11/24/1963.

Curious whether Gregory shared in his book any contemplations at all regards whether Jack Ruby's access into the Dallas PD building parking basement crawling with 70 armed security personnel was anything more than just ineptly lax security luck ...or something more planned or aided?

I sense young hormone pumped Paul Gregory had a serious crush on Marina Oswald when he first started visiting her and Lee ... ostensibly to improve his Russian which he said was not great as a teenager. He became so regularly involved with them he would do more than just practice Russian with Marina, including driving them to stores and other activities. Maybe just some get out of the house cruise arounds?

P. Gregory described Marina as very attractive. Everyone who ever met young Marina was smitten with her attractiveness, especially her blue eyes which Norman Mailer once described as like radiant blue diamonds!

Gregory was also very effected by the incident he witnessed when Marina lost her balance on some front porch steps and went flying and landed hard on her back with baby Junie in her arms. A very traumatic scene.

Where he ( Gregory ) felt great protective concern for Marina in her violent fall, he described Lee Oswald exhibiting the most coldly cruel reaction by actually yelling at Marina for her clumsiness and instead grabbing and holding baby June and comforting only her.

The fact that Paul Gregory made this recollection one of his most importantly remembered and repeated ones tells me it instantly shaped his opinion of Oswald in the most negative ways.  Why that BASTARD!

Here his beautiful crush is laying injured and her husband is cruelly ignoring her and even chastising her at the same time?

Gregory must have hated Lee Oswald with the deepest resentment from that day on.

Ruth Paine hated Lee Oswald as well. "The fact that he used my typewriter without asking offended me deeply!"

Gregory stated the entire Dallas White Russian group hated Lee Oswald as well.

They considered him a brutish and cruelly intolerant husband of this bright-eyed and pretty young Russian princess as well as a no count, ne'er-do-well, Marxist loving loser.

Beautiful Marina deserved so much more.

I've met a handful of native-born Russians in my lifetime of living within a mile or two or even blocks from the Monterey Presidio foreign language school. Called the DLI - Defense Language Institute.

They were all teaching Russian there. I went to school with many of their children, through elementary and high school.

I remember last names like Bogateriev, Ushakov, Hulaniki, Galko, etc. Eva Galko was Ukranian I think. A real beauty.

I didn't go to their homes much. Still, it "seemed" to me however that there was kind of a reserved type energy around the parents. More so than other ethnic parents who taught at the DLI. Maybe I'm wrong.

One neighbor was a lady Russian teacher at DLI. Their child used to play with my two. The grandmother lived with them. She was the fulltime caretaker of their son. That is the Russian way I understand. No outside babysitters.

That woman was bluntly condescending, even arrogant and incredibly class conscious. The only thing that mattered was education and standing.

She would dismiss anyone not of that class as barbarians.

She allowed her grandchild to play with our two children "only" because their mother was well educated and held a higher academic career position - editor.

She barely tolerated me however...a simple-minded yard and grounds tending gardener with no education beyond high school.

I imagine the White Russians in Dallas in 1963 were very much like our Russian born neighbor grandmother. Oswald was a cretin. Pretty and intelligent Marina deserved much, much more.

By the way, the Russian neighbor's grandson is now a PHD who teaches in the sciences at a University level.

4 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

That certainly sounds like there's a relationship between RFK and MM when the letter-writer says "Understand that you and Bobby are the new item!"

But the letter was written by RFK's sister, right?

Based on this letter, it seems the whole Kennedy family was friends with Marylin Monroe. They all thought she should come back east with Bobby.

Well that doesn't sound right at all. Bobby's sister thought is was fine that he was having an affair with MM? And that she should come back east with him? I don't think so.

Either this letter was written about a different Bobby, or by a different Jean Smith (not a Kennedy), or that it was a joke about Bobby and Marylin being an item. I vote for the latter.

 

The true intent thrust of the letter is not clear.

On 12/22/2020 at 10:18 AM, Joe Bauer said:

Exhausting, but I just read 75% of the posts in this thread.

The interconnections between the wealthy and powerful personally and politically seems never ending, and is a disturbing reality check on the way things really work in the highest rungs of power and control in our country.

More a plutocracy than a democracy imo.

Still.

On 11/28/2011 at 4:11 PM, Robert Howard said:

 

Most of Mozambique Hunters Texan

But down to the interesting comments on how the tall Mozambique baron, who married a Portuguese lady of the first family, sees the men from this country who come wagging cannons. Firstly the Baron seemed quite qualified to speak of the Texas variety of American's, for he said "80 per cent of our hunters are Texans. Fifteen percent come from California and five per cent from the rest of the world." Then the baron added a slant. "One of my hunters George Gedek, speaks with a Texan drawl. He doesent knoaw anything else. He's only hunted with Texans you see." The he got onto the Texans. "Americans who come to our place are all sportsmen. All save one mon. There must be one bad egg everywhere, it seems but the great majority of Americans are good sportsmen. Then they are different from the hunters of other nations. They are much tougher. Most are used to rugged conditions. They have hunted Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, British Columbia, Alaska, where you have got to be able to take it. Such people find Africa comparatively easy." Then the man from Mozambique, where a three week safari costs $3,500 and a for week safari costs $ 4,100 in addition to transportation there, got onto guns. "American's believe in high powered rifles. Your American rifle, the Weatherby and the Winchester, are fine rifles. Europeans cawnt do as well, they dont have the rifles, or they dont have time, or the opportunity to practice. So Americans are much better shots. Your Herb Klein is a grond example."

And what do these American hunters want to shoot? "Texan's want a lion and leopard first," replied the Baron then a kudu, lostly the elephant. There is a tremendous argument as to the most dangerous onimal in Africa, No not the buff," he said to Byrd. "You can see him, the wounded lion or leopard is on you like lightning. The wounded leopard is the more dangerous of the two. Invariably it will attack. But I count the elephont as the most dangerous. An elephant is able to reason. My greatest friend and co-hunter Horst Rohe was killed by an elephant in 1952. Quite a few of my friends have been killed by them. Mechanized man is the only enemy the elephont has.

"Wally Johnson, Harold's white hunter, who has killed over 1,000 elephants, shot one six times last year, and it escaped into the bush. He was back there six months ago. That elephant attacked him. The wound scars proved it." It was but natural to ask a man who has lived in Mozambique for 17 years, or since the end of World War II, what his closest call has been.

"My narrowest escape," he replied was at Elm and St. Paul yesterday in front of the Athletic Club. This town is much more dangerous than the bush. Onimals dont do you any harm unless you or someone has wounded them. You cawnt say thot for Dallas drivers. Then he got back to American hunters

"American women are great sports and good shots. Mrs. Marty Gose of Wichita Falls killed everything with one shot. Mrs Jack O' Connor, wife of the Outdoor Life gun editor mostly, did the same. I have seen American women outshoot their husbands. "But there is one thing we do note. The only things Americans are afraid of are bugs. But by God they disinfect themselves with the amount of whiskey they drink. No mosquito would have a chance with them. They swerve off from them."

So, George deMohrenschildt wasn't the only Baron who shows up in the JFK saga. Whether there is any other interesting material from this 'peripheral to the assassination' aspect remains to be seen. A word of warning.....beware of assuming anything about the Baron, especially his political affiliations. In World War 2, the Baron apparently was imprisoned by the Nazi's, from what I understand....

This thread was one of the most important and educating ones I first came across in my beginning foray into the forum.

From Simkin's opening post you really get a good overall sense of Texas power and corruption going back into the 1940's.

As well as how the Viet Nam war made certain Texans and Texas connected corps much richer and even more powerful than they already were.

LBJ was their main interest promoting man. With LBJ as our president, they couldn't lose.

An early poster used this analogy which gives you an idea of Texas oil wealth, power and influence during the 50's and 1960's:

Texas oil was the American equivalent to the Saudi Oil Cartel of the last 40 years.

All new members and/or our visitors should read this entire thread.

4 hours ago, Cory Santos said:

Pamela, what is your opinion of the letter from Jean Kennedy Smith to Marilyn Monroe?

What letter?

Can you summarize it's contents?

On 10/18/2023 at 3:55 AM, Pamela Brown said:

You are right, that the changes that were made were so that Marilyn would photograph perfectly from any angle.  And they were minor changes. You can see in your photo the shadow the end of her nose casts. By making the bulb smalle there is no shadow.  I don't know just what it was about her jaw that needed strengthening...

But it did take Marilyn four hours or more to get ready for any public appearance, so you can imagine there was some taping and spackling going on in the process.  Whatever they did, the end result was incredible...

Have you seen Marilyn in her bit part in All About Eve, with the fabulous Bette Davis (whom I happened to meet)...

 

Marilyn just stole every scene she was in...

Absolutely true.

There are people who are so physically attractive, when you see their face it just makes you feel good.

In Norma Jean/MM's case that effect was (and still is) so powerful...it's like visual heroin.

To me, MM was and always will be "achingly beautiful."

And yet, what she herself wanted most was probably just simple trusting, protective and stable, even parental type self-worth affirmation love.

Which she seems to have craved and not received in her formative years.

On 10/25/2023 at 7:36 AM, Michael Griffith said:

Still? You're still defending this stuff?

I thought the research community had repudiated the likes of Madeleine Brown and Fletcher Prouty years ago. When I joined this forum last year, I never expected to find posts, much less entire threads, that defended the crazy, nutty claims of Brown and Prouty.

I defend Madeline Brown with many reservations.

The woman had Lyndon Baines Johnson's baby Man!

She had dozens of the most intimate kind of encounters with LBJ over almost 20 years! Many overnighters.

Common sense tells you she and LBJ must have had "some" pillow talk conversations.

Especially after the JFKA.

Her long-term intimate relationship with LBJ surely gave her enough courage to ask him at least something about the biggest crime mystery event in American history after 11,22,1963.

One that took place right in her home state and town!

One that placed LBJ in the office of the presidency.

I could easily see MB asking LBJ at least some minor questions about it and her description of his reaction rings so true relative to LBJ's known temper and touchy feelings about the assassination itself.

LBJ showed his loud cursing anger to many.

LBJ even had very loud and animated arguments with JFK and RFK. We know this as fact.

LBJ's bellowing, loud cursing anger at MB's questions about the JFKA makes total sense.

MB's claim in this regards rings true to me. 

You don't mention 36 year long Virginia Murchison employee May Newman and her 11,21,1963 Murchison house meet up story and her detailed description of what she heard and saw that evening.

I sense you don't because you can't find any information that impugns her character and background.

I focus on her much more that Madeline Brown.

May Newman's Hoover/Bulldog story regards the evening of 11,21,1963 is more innocently motivated honest sounding than Madeline Brown's.

If May Newman told the truth in her one filmed interview, it blows the lid off of one major aspect to the Murchison meet up story. That it happened and Hoover did attend.

I don't see Hoover best friend LBJ ("like brothers") knowing Hoover was in town ( and was it an honoring event for Hoover? ) and just minutes away that evening, and not feeling he should at least pop in and see him if only for a few minutes.

I believe the May Newman Hoover/Bulldog story. And I feel it's importance is much greater than has been reported.

Lastly, Hoover and his live in companion Clyde Tolson were so broken up over JFK's horrifically brutal slaughter in Dallas on Friday, 11/22/1963 they decided to ease their grief by donning their finest polo fashion duds and cheerfully playing the ponies at Pimlico just 2 days later?

While most everyone in our society was still experiencing epic shock and sadness and feeling great anxiety and unsureness about everything all around them throughout the weekend?

Then all that anxiety and grief was heightened even more by Oswald's murder ( main witness lossed ) in the Dallas PD building less than 48 hours after JFK?

You would think our top G-Man in the country would have shown more somber respect than going out to play just two days after his President was slaughtered in broad daylight.

Leaving aside the questionable nature of the evidence for Brown's claims about the party, I am struck by the sheer absurdity of the idea that LBJ, Nixon, and Hoover would have held any kind of a meeting the night before the shooting if they were involved in the plot.

When the "richest men on Earth" in 1963 ( Texas Oil ) come calling to ask your presence for an important personal meet up, even the likes of Nixon and LBJ himself take pause.

And what a remarkable coincidence. Both Nixon and LBJ just happened to be in Dallas at the same time and mere minutes away from the alleged Murchinson home that very evening?

Physically it was totally possible for LBJ and Nixon to have made that meeting. And LBJ may have only been there for 20 minutes. A 1 to 1 1/2 hour brief absence from his hotel including drive time would barely be noticed.

 We all know Hoover was in DC on the day of the shooting.

So? 

He could easily have made the meeting the evening before and got back to DC before dawn.

What is the documentation proving he was home with Tolson the entire evening before?

He ( Hoover ) was the one who notified RFK about it.

Again...so? What's that got to do with anything regards the evening before?

"He would have had to do an awful lot of flying in the space of about 10-12 hours to have attended the alleged party and made it back to DC." 

How about 8 to 10 hours?

Yes, Nixon was in Dallas for a convention, but he had a protective detail with him, and there's no evidence he attended the alleged party.

Why would Nixon have a protective detail? He was 3 years out of government office and only a Vice President while in. Extreme right-wing Dallas loved the guy.

Nixon could have easily ducked his security detail.

Heck, as "President" Nixon did so. Drove by himself to pick up Jackie Gleason at his home in Florida one evening and took Gleason to the nearby Air Force base to show Gleason ET bodies.

I know, National Enquirer stuff...but even Jackie Gleason before he passed finally admitted this strange Nixon encounter.

And of course there's no evidence he ( Nixon ) was at the Murchison get together.

Of course not, it was "supposed" to be off the books.

Bottom line is Nixon was only minutes away from the Murchison home that entire evening.

You might get with Lisa Pease about Brown's story. Lisa does not buy it at all.

Wonder what Lisa Pease has to say about 36 year long Virginia Murchison seamstress/companion employee May Newman's story?

Newman had no publicity or money seeking motive bad integrity baggage at all like Madeline Brown.

How does Lisa Pease or anyone else explain away or deflate Ms. Newman's Hoover story?

Misremembering? Exaggerated or even made up? Ms. Newman was mentally ill or suffering from dementia during her interview? Maybe sloshed to boot? 

I don't recall any published accounts of Newman detractors convincingly or even close to convincingly explaining away her Hoover story and her personal integrity.

I would think there might be "somebody" alive today that knew Virginia Murchison and remembered her domestic staff back in 1963. May Newman, Jules Fieffer and John Murchison's cook Beulla Holman as well.

Again, Newman was employed by Virginia Murchison for 36 years!

3 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

Leaving aside the questionable nature of the evidence for Brown's claims about the party, I am struck by the sheer absurdity of the idea that LBJ, Nixon, and Hoover would have held any kind of a meeting the night before the shooting if they were involved in the plot.

When the "richest men on Earth" in 1963 ( Texas Oil ) come calling to ask your presence for a personal meet up, even the likes of Nixon and LBJ himself take pause.

And what a remarkable coincidence. Both Nixon and LBJ just happened to be in Dallas at the same time and mere minutes away from the alleged Murchinson home that very evening?

Physically it was totally possible for LBJ and Nixon to have made that meeting. And LBJ may have only been there for 20 minutes. A 1 to 1 1/2 hour brief absence from his hotel including drive time would barely be noticed.

 We all know Hoover was in the DC on the day of the shooting.

So? 

He could easily have made the meeting and got back to DC before dawn.

What is the documentation proving he was home with Tolson the entire evening before?

He ( Hoover ) was the one who notified RFK about it.

Again...so? What's that got to do with anything regards the evening before?

"He would have had to do an awful lot of flying in the space of about 10-12 hours to have attended the alleged party and made it back to DC." 

How about 8 to 10 hours?

Yes, Nixon was in Dallas for a convention, but he had a protective detail with him, and there's no evidence he attended the alleged party.

Why would Nixon have a protective detail? He was 3 years out of government office and only a Vice President while in. Extreme right-wing Dallas loved the guy.

And of course there's no evidence he was at the Murchison get together. It was "supposed" to be off the books.

Bottom line is Nixon was only minutes away from the Murchison home that entire evening.

You might get with Lisa Pease about Brown's story. Lisa does not buy it at all.

Wonder what Lisa Pease has to say about 36 year long employ Virginia Murchison seamstress/companion May Newman's story. 

Newman had no publicity or money seeking bad integrity baggage at all like Madeline Brown.

How does Lisa Pease or anyone else explain Ms. Newman's Hoover story?

Misremembering? Exaggerated or even made up? Ms. Newman was mentally ill or suffering from dementia during her interview? Maybe sloshed to boot? 

I don't recall any published accounts of Newman detractors explaining away her Hoover story and her personal integrity.

I would think there might be "somebody" alive today that knew Virginia Murchison and remembered her domestic staff back in 1963. May Newman, Jules Fieffer and John Murchison's cook Beulla Holman as well.

Newman was employed by Virginia Murchison for 36 years!

 

3 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Also worth bearing in mind is the tsbd job was much closer to his 1026 north Beckley apartment than the love field job. It's possible LHO would have needed to get two buses in the morning and two again in the evening in order to get to the love field job. Whereas the tsbd job could be reached using just one bus that would drop him off at the corner of elm and Houston.

I agree.

Good point.

Transportation was always a more important consideration with non-driving Oswald. A two bus trip one way requirement ( versus just one ) would be a big turn off to me.

15 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

Oh my goodness. Really? So now we're peddling Madeleine Brown's demonstrably false tales? Her statement "rings true" only to those who want to believe her and who are willing to ignore all the holes in her story. 

We know where Nixon, Hoover, and LBJ were the night before the assassination. They were not at Murchison's house finalizing a plot to kill JFK. Brown's story is crazy talk.

The very idea that they would have held such a meeting at that time and location is absurd, even if one wants to imagine that they were the key plotters.

This stuff is embarrassing, low-hanging fruit for WC apologists to use to discredit the case for conspiracy. 

 

I don't know why so many JFKA debaters are so firmly accepting of the "Hoover wasn't there" proposition regards whether or not he actually did fly into Dallas the evening of 11,21,1963.

Maybe I've missed it...but is there absolute documented proof that Hoover never left DC the day or evening of 11,21,1963?

And did Hoover never travel by way of his own plane that didn't have to register a flight plan as the CIA and military often did?

May Newman gave a quite detailed account ( admittedly second hand ) of Hoover flying in because she was aware of Virginia Murchison's chauffer Jules Fiefer ( spelling? ) being sent out to pick up "Bulldog" and his also having to drive the departing Hoover back to the airport.

And when driver Fiefer came back to the Murchison household after his last Hoover drop off run to the airport Newman asked him if Hoover had given him a good tip?

To which driver Fiefer said no...as he was upset about the stiffing.

Some corroborating facts.

Hoover was known as a cheapskate.  So Newman's account of Fiefer's angst at being stiffed by Bulldog rings true. If Hoover was known as a big tipper Newman's story would be more suspect.

EVERYONE knew about Hoover's close relationship with the Murchisons.

You don't get flown out to sunny California to stay at Murchison's Del Charro hotel with everything free including meals and hot horse race tips ( more times than once ) if you are not a favored friend of the owner.

So, Hoover flying in to see and talk to his super wealthy and giving friends the Murchison's ( upon their asking ) even at odd hours is not so improbable on Hoover's part ... imo anyways.

Hoover traveled quite a lot. A 3 hour flight to Dallas would not have been a big deal to him.

And he very well could have dozed on the 3 hour flight back to DC as well.

Hoover liked the night life. Sometimes making the rounds of clubs in New York City, no? So, staying up late at night was not completely out of character for Hoover.

So, Hoover gets home at say 4:am the morning of 11,22,1963.

He catches a few hours of sleep and gets on with his day.

May Newman knew the Virginia Murchison's chauffer ( Jules Fiefer ) by name.

She knew John Murchison's cook Beulla May Holman.

Holman called May Newman and asked her if she wanted to come to the bigger Murchinson home that evening where Holman was preparing quail for the incoming guests. To help out one imagines.

Holman told May Newman she could see and possibly meet the guest of honor - Bulldog/Hoover- but Newman declined as she never heard of him. 

It would have been feasible at some point to find the Murchison family service staff and ask them to corroborate Newman's story about Hoover coming in to attend the Murchison get together the evening of 11/21/1963 except for the fact that no one came forward to report it until Madeline Brown and then May Newman finally did so.

Brown 25 years after the fact and Newman 40 years later?

Unfortunately by then those other service staff members were probably gone or even dead. 

I just watched the interview video of May Newman in the TMWKK documentary again. 

My long lifetime developed gut feeling instincts ( more accurately right than not ) tell me she was not lying or even exaggerating her account of the night of 11/21/1963 and the days following where the champagne and caviar flowed for a week in the Murchison households.

She said the mood in that family was joyous and happy right after JFK was killed through the entire next week!

You could sense May Newman's disgust in sharing that cold-hearted reaction of the Murchison family.

She made it a point to say she was the only one grieving over JFK's brutal killing.

You should review again May Newman's interview in chapter 9 of "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" doc.

Titled "The Guilty Men."

Watch closely Newman's eyes when she says she was the only one grieving for the loss of JFK in that Murchison celebration household.

You can really see and feel her sadness in recounting her being alone in her grief.

I assume Ms. Newman was Irish Catholic. Her people loved fellow Irish Catholic JFK more than any other foreign nation society.

1 hour ago, Michael Griffith said:

I am surprised that Denton uses the unbelievable Madeleine Brown as a source. Brown claimed she attended a party at Clint Murchison's home the evening before the assassination, and that LBJ, J. Edgar Hoover, Richard Nixon, H. L. Hunt, and John McCloy were there, among others. She also claimed that during that evening, LBJ told her that "after tomorrow" the Kennedys would never embarrass him again. This lady was clearly a fraud.

When her son filed a paternity suit to establish his mother's alleged death-bed claim that LBJ was his father, the Johnson family called his bluff, and he never showed up in court to arrange for the paternity test. 

Edited 7 minutes ago by Michael Griffith

One has to consider Madeline Brown and her years of often times embellished ( if not made up ) comments and claims with at least some allowance for there being more than a few important actual truths she reveals about LBJ in them.

The truth that LBJ did father their son Steven for one.

LBJ wouldn't have kept MB financially subsidized all those years if they hadn't had a child together.

LBJ's family didn't call Steven Johnson's bluff regards his filing a legal claim to LBJ's estate after his death. 

They and their powerful connections had to destroy Steven Johnson. His legitimacy as provenly LBJ's son was a huge threat to them in so many ways, including the legacy of LBJ.

I came to the conclusion that Madeline Brown did embellish many aspects of her story, and even made up many others.

I believe she was a desperate woman after her endowment funds were cut off when LBJ passed away.

Her thrusting herself into the national limelight did bring her some financial gain, and I would imagine she got a fairly good sum of money with her book deal?

I also feel MB definitely wanted to get some revenge on the LBJ family ( and the high powered LBJ loyal minions in their camp who did their wealth and reputation protecting bidding ) for their treatment of her ( cut off funds ) and her son Steven who was denied his birth right acknowledgement and died under tragic circumstances.

In her book "Texas In The Morning" MB relates quotes of LBJ made during their many overnight trysts in his own reserved hotel room suites.

I agree with another of our forum members who believed that those quotes rang true to the known "private setting" speaking traits LBJ exhibited throughout his life.

Whether MB's account of the big shot JFK haters meet up at one of the Murchison households the night before the assassination was so embellished it was meaningless, the woman did have a totally legitimate insider connection to LBJ in a uniquely deep intimacy way  that in my opinion adds weight to her statement that she felt LBJ knew of the JFKA before it happened.

Many years ago I copied and posted on the forum a You Tube accessed taped conversation between LBJ and several of his most inner circle vanguard aides. Maybe Abe Fortas and Bill Moyers included?

This was before the 1964 election I believe.

In this conversation you can clearly hear a very worked up LBJ imploring his men to jump on two seriously threatening problems at hand.

One was the growing scandal regarding his long-time aide Walter Jenkins and the other was about business dealings of LBJ back in his home state regards charges being made about his business dealings there being less than up and up?  Forgot the specific details.

But at one point one can clearly hear LBJ bellowing to his team that if they didn't get a handle on these matters, they could possibly effect his upcoming election standing and ( the Texas business dealings one ) could maybe even land him in jail!

It was a remarkable conversation. And when I came across the link I noticed it had only been accessed little more than 1,000 times. It's obscureness surprised me.

I've searched and searched all my old posting archives and that one just seems to have disappeared.

The reason I found that particular recorded conversation between LBJ and his damage control team so important was that it proved how just how concerned LBJ was regards investigations into his business dealings in Texas ( telling his aides he could possibly go to jail? ) going way back into the 50's and maybe even earlier.

Which bolsters the premise some have postulated that LBJ was more motivated to have wanted JFK and RFK out of the picture more so than not due to his real concerns about investigations into his reportedly illegal business doings. 

A few of our most esteemed JFKA researchers here on the forum responded that they too found this taped interview very interesting and had never heard it before.

I always enjoyed Frazier's Mayberry RFD innocently honest country boy part in the whole affair.

It was a refreshing contrast to the typical cast of often duplicitous characters who spoke with better vocabularies.

Frazier's account of his standing up to a slap threatening Will Fritz when Frazier refused to sign an involvement statement will always be a favorite.

"If you hit me we's gonna have one helluva fight!"

Fritz backed down!

Go Buell Wesley...GO!

26 minutes ago, Gil Jesus said:

When the FBI visited Milteer after the assassination, they had the recording, so they knew what he said. When he denied that he ever said it, he should have been arrested right on the spot for making a false statement to a federal agent. He should have been taken back to the FBI office and told that he'd be spending the next five years in Federal prison unless he revealed the source of his information. If he lawyered up, the recording would have been played for him and his lawyer to hear. At that point, he would have had no choice but to either cooperate with the investigation, or go to prison.

That's how it would have been handled in a normal murder investigation. But this was not an investigation, this was a collection of evidence against Oswald. So once he denied saying it, the FBI simply reported his denial and the issue was dropped.

Exactly.

Just another logical reason to suspect the official investigation was compromised from the very first day it was initiated.

I like and totally agree with your assessment of what the FBI should have done with Milteer in those first few days.
I didn't know that the FBI actually played the Miami recording to Milteer. And he simply denied it was him?

And they let Milteer walk away after telling that blatant lie?

Sickening imo.

That's right up there with Dallas FBI man James Hosty knowingly keeping the fact of his destroying his office's Oswald file and flushing it down a toilet after being ordered to do so by his boss just one day after Oswald was murdered from the Warren Commission during his sworn oath testimony ( to tell the truth...THE "FULL" TRUTH and NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH ) to them just months later.

Can you imagine how much that Oswald evidence destroying "TRUTH" by the FBI would have forced the Warren Commission into a completely different investigative mode. One they never wanted to get anywhere near? 

Lee Harvey Oswald could never, ever been allowed to have a trial.

I can't even imagine how much his testimony would have implicated countless nefarious others and in what ways, beginning with his defection to Russia to his crazy doings in New Orleans the Summer of 1963 and with his strange trip to Mexico City.

George De Mohrenschildt alone would have probably had a heart attack worrying how much he and his wife Jeannie would have been pulled into such a trial.

Just a for-instance, George De M might have been asked why he even joked to Lee Oswald about taking a pot shot at General Walker? And why he didn't report his suspicions at the time? 

Anyone Oswald dealt with in New Orleans...same thing.

Oswald's murder just two days after JFK's was the ultimate gift to all those who feared him living.