Joe Bauer

44 minutes ago, Robert Reeves said:

Col. Fletcher Prouty was a tricky fella. He directed attention to a man with his back to the camera. Someone unidentifiable.

I believe Col. Prouty would have studied all seven of the 'three tramps' photo sequence. Surely?

So with Gen. Lansdale in his sights, how did Col. Prouty fail to also identify a more identifiable profile view of Lansdale. Surely this would have Bolstered his case in pointing the finger at Lansdale!?

 

 

I believe the person shown in profile was captured in one of the Allen photographs. Does anyone believe Prouty would not have seen this person? So I find it so strange he never jumped all over it. I think it was Charles Drago that first noticed this person in the photos.

But much like his ARRB performance, Prouty never really put his foot right in it', and buried Lansdale and Co when he had the chance. 

From Harold Weisberg's documents at jfk.hood.edu 

Weisberg discusses Prouty with a person named 'Ed'. Weisberg asks ''I have long held the same question about Prouty in all this: does he speak for the military as opposed to the CIA?'' *from Weisberg collection at Hood*

Weisberg was OSS (CIA).

The side profile of Lansdale in 1964 grabs my attention.

In my mind's eye, I could see the Tramp Walk-By fellow having that face. His head shape resembles the Walk-Bye man's.

Didn't Prouty say from time to time, that there were certain military and or covert activities he was either involved in or aware of that even he could never fully reveal the details of?

For obvious national security reasons?

1 hour ago, Michael Griffith said:

I'm sorry, but this strikes me as debating the validity of an Elvis sighting. 

No, there is no known photo of Lansdale wearing glasses. His son said he did not wear glasses. His son also said that Lansdale did not wear the prominent ring that the man in the tramp photo is wearing. 

The whole discussion is absurd.

If you can't see any similarities in the Tramp walk-by photo to other photos of Lansdale as I described, what can one say?

I see enough of them to consider it possible it could be Lansdale.

However, like I said, only the highest body and walking gate scan technology in the world would be able to definitively prove an ID either way.

It's difficult to discuss and debate Prouty with you.

You are so invested in such a highly charged daily pounding of Prouty's credibility, character, claims, integrity and motives ( for weeks and months on end ) that to a degree it's sometimes off-putting to even consider doing so.

Still, I have to consider your Prouty research facts with a rational open mind.

You've definitely revealed many points about Prouty and his statements to give me some pause and fair reasons to look closer at him in that area.

However, Prouty's incredibly distinguished, achieving and responsible duty career in the highest levels of military command postings after direct war time duty will always prevent me from considering him and his integrity with anything but the highest regards.

If only half of Prouty's JFK related claims are true...they are epically important in understanding and revealing the full JFKA truth.

The technical science of human anatomical identification including walking gate, posture, height, head and body shape is so advanced now that it is used worldwide in security surveillance by almost every type of highest level intel agencies.

One assumes the equipment and technical expertise to operate and analyze this high tech identification process is very expensive and tightly controlled by those who utilize it.

Even so, if it could be used in this case, I would guess that the top experts in this field could make a high probability ID finding either proving the Dealey Plaza walking man is or is not Lansdale.

They could do this by analyzing every known full body still photo or even video footage of Lansdale and comparing them to the man in the Dealey Plaza Tramp walk photo.

That would be the only way to come up with anything close to a definitive scientific proof conclusion in the matter.

And it will never happen.

However, just taking the most unscientific layman look at photos of Lansdale such as the one where he is standing next to Alan Dulles and one where he is arriving at and walking over some airport tarmac overseas, my untrained eyes do see similarities between those two photos and the 11,22,1963 Dealey Plaza Tramp photo man.

The height. Dulles was 6 ft. 2 in. tall. Lansdale matches him in height.

The build. Lansdale was a thin bone structure man. Narrower shoulders than Dulles.

Longer neck from head to shoulders than Dulles.

Lansdale's military uniform is cut with a much more tightened waist draw in. This is just above the hip line of which is noticeably high with Lansdale. I see these same two upper body and coat aspects in the Dealey Plaza photo ... do you?

There is a slight drop of Lansdale's shoulders, one lower than the other. They are not equally straight across.

Landale appears to be moderately bow-legged. You can see this in the tarmac photo. Much more space between them than the more straight-legged men next to him.

Lansdale clearly has a block head shape. So does the Dealey Plaza man.

Same ear shape and vertical and horizontal skull location. Same haircut.

And the hands.

Lansdale's hands in the Dulles photo match the size, shape and curled in finger hold position as the Plaza man...imo anyways.

The Dealey Plaza man walks with his head slightly stooped or bowed forward. Did Lansdale have this lean-to as well?

The similarities are close enough to not easily dismiss their Lansdale match importance imo.

Yes, the Dealey Plaza photo man is wearing glasses. Don't know if Lansdale ever did. That's a valid point of debate in the matter.

1 hour ago, Pamela Brown said:

Marilyn did have plastic surgery that we know of on her nose, to remove a 'bulb' at the end, and to strengthen her jawline...

If true, I stand corrected.

However, seeing early age photos of Norma Jean before she ever became famous I can't see hardly any difference in her facial structure looks compared to the adult ones.

Must have been very minor surgical procedures.

And nothing to her body at all.

It looks as though MM had a kind of reddish tint hair color in it's natural state.

Those early pics clearly show her incredible beauty she was just born with.

The one of her as an adolescent on the beach already captured that famous playful smile of hers.

I do find it hard to believe JFK didn't have at least one intimate encounter with MM.

Peter Lawford would have been the most logical link to have arranged such a tryst.

21 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

Marilyn's expression is serious, perhaps perturbed. She is obviously speaking directly to Jack as Robert looks on. Neither of the men appear to be particularly at ease.  

Jack has ducked his head — either to hear Marilyn's whisper or to avoid her gaze completely.

Schlesinger stands several feet away so It's unlikely he can hear what's being discussed.  Considering their demeanor, there's something especially incongruous about his wide grin.

Regardless, his presence doesn't alter the tension in the body language, particularly of Marilyn and Jack.  

Do you know if this is the first time either of the brothers met her 'in the flesh?'

I agree with your reading of JFK, Robert K. and MM in that photo Leslie S.

Whew, I seem to have gotten carried away with the MM story.

Like millions of others she had that big of an effect on me.

16 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

Mr Krulak unambiguously identified Lansdale in a private correspondence with Prouty. Prouty never shared that information publicly, although confidentially informed some colleagues, apparently including Livingstone. For reasons of his own, Livingstone broke Prouty’s trust and put Krulak on the defensive.

Just because someone is a highest rank military officer with a chest full of medals for years of actual war time service doesn't mean they could never lie about anything.

If Krulak clearly threw Prouty under the bus by denying the possible Lansdale in Dealy Plaza photo quotes attributed to him by Prouty... one of them is lying.

One of them did wrong. Was it Prouty?

I could logically imagine that even a highest rank military officer who felt that something highly controversial attributed to him could seriously taint or compromise an incredible meritorious lifetime achievement career standing and legacy ... he or she could be tempted to pull back some statement that risked this loss.

Prouty's story about Krulak's affirmation of Prouty's suspicion regards the photo being Lansdale, if false, just seems too risky and even irrational on his part.

Personally, I just don't feel Prouty could be of that mentality.

On 10/15/2023 at 12:10 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Joe, are you serious? You never saw MM act in any of her films, like Gentleman Prefer Blondes etc?  Even Burt Reynolds, who knew her from her New York days said that one day they were walking down Broadway, and no one noticed her.  And Burt commented on that.  She then said: OK, now watch this.  She took her hair down and changed her walk and suddenly people did start noticing them.  Burt said it was one of the most immediate, sharp, yet subtle changes he ever saw an actress do.  MM really worked hard to master certain techniques to give an effective performance.  If you want to see how skilled she was, watch the skit she did with Jack Benny on his TV show.  Its on You Tube. And then watch the same skit with Mansfield.  Night and day. 

Jim, of course I watched MM perform all the things you mentioned.

My wife and I watched the old Billy Wilder classic "Some Like It Hot" just last night.

We both really enjoyed it ( I don't often like to see older films again every few years unless they have something special that grabs me )  and I thought everyone was great in it.

The script ( intendedly silly fun) was well written in it's light comedy story line integrity and MM and Tony Curtis ( with really believable mutual attraction ) delivered it hotly and still with really good timing and pacing.

The pairing of Curtis and Monroe was the best of her comedy film roles. They complimented each other in many ways. Obviously both very attractive.

Yes, MM played the stunningly beautiful dumb blond again, but there was something more with her in that film role and other similar ones. Something hard to define.

And even that specific role takes talent to carry off.

I see real acting talent and thoughtfulness in most of MM's film roles.

Much more than I ever gave much thought to consider when I was younger.

Even her singing and dancing is quite good. Better than Rita Hayworth imo.

Like you said regards Burt Reynolds seeing a well thought out personae change in MM which immediately drew fan attention to her with a fascinating effect. A change that was very intelligently thought out and well practiced.

She created that worldwide successful iconic mesmerizing sex symbol character out of her own mind. No one could have taught her to be...Marilyn Monroe.

Yet, I still think her playing that highly exaggerated sex bombshell character to the hilt ( even more exaggerated than her comedy films imo ) and in that particular JFK birthday MSG venue was just a little too sexually suggestive ( almost porn?) and as such awkwardly miscalculated for the time, place and social setting.

It's one thing to see Monroe in a film where her role as such is expected.

However, I would think many viewers of her super hot JFK "Happy Birthday Mr. President" rendition wondered if it might have been more than a joke and maybe more personally invested...and even whether she was like that all the time?  

2 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

I agree. Whoever lured Marilyn into doing this performance was signing her death warrant, imo...

Who was it?   Peter Lawford? 

Why would MM get up in front of hundreds of tux and gown high society set people ( millions more soon afterwards in news reels) and sing her "Happy Birth...Day...Mr. President" song in such an exaggerated, boozy eyed seductive way that it was like a Billy Wilder film comedy performance?

It really did seem awkwardly out of place and over the top.

Even JFK himself seemed somewhat embarrassed by it.

If JFK and the boys had a cowboy boots, beer and barbeque bonfire stag party at someone's ranch I could see someone hiring a sex pot to sing HB to JFK like Marilyn M. did.

But high society set Madison Square Garden?

I liked MM's super sultry sexy voice and skin tight dress singing. Even loved it!

However, I imagine many would say she looked kind of out-of-it as it seemed just a tad too exaggerated.

Not quite Judy Garland in London in her last days but I think MM's public image actually took a hit with her hugely seen breathy hot sexy MSG ditty.

And in real life and her last years (including during this JFK BD MSG party time) even the studio publicists couldn't successfully cover up her sad addiction to pills and erratic behavior any longer.

Whoever put MM up to this embarrassing MSG side show was a GD bastard imo.

Check out the following video:

JFK: Cinema As History.

An American University presented debate.

It's almost two hours long.

For heart of the discussion expediency ( imo ) watch and listen to John Judge in the beginning of the debate and then skip to the 1 hour and 13 minute mark.

Listen to the aggressive charges of other debaters directed at L. Fletcher Prouty and listen to his responses.

If the Alien presence story is true...

It makes every other event story in our history kid's stuff. Including who killed JFK.

Part of the story line in the original "Planet Of The Apes" film starring Charlton Heston was the big secret kept from the evolved simian race society that now ruled the world.

Only one or two at the top of the ape race governing hierarchy knew the truth that they felt had to be kept secret from the entire rest of their kind.

That secret? 

That higher advanced than themselves Homo-Sapien humans created them from a much lower evolution class of animals. 

And if the entire Ape race were to be made aware of their true identity...it would cripple their self-esteem ( a permanent inferiority complex ) relative to the humans they previously herded up like cattle.

Isn't this the exact same scenario proposed as to why a small percentage of in-the-know Alien presence secret holders justify keeping it's truth from the rest of the human race?

Don't forget Ruby's Carousel was right across the street from the famous Adolphus Hotel where LBJ himself stayed from time to time.

Not exactly the seediest part of town.

And hasn't it been reported that H.L. Hunt actually went to the Carousel once or twice. And Dallas DA Henry Wade?

Point being the visiting of Connally there, discreetly, through the back stairs and during the day may not be so improbable.

16 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Joe:

There was nothing like what you allude to at the beginning of your post between MM and JFK.  

There was perhaps a one off encounter and that was it.

And as I have shown at length, there was no such thing as a diary of secrets, it was invented by Slatzer 11 years later.

MM was a really liberal person who was all for civil rights.  That is what she would talk to RFK about and that is why she would call him at the DOJ.  According to people who knew Bobby, he would dutifully take her calls, like he would take Judy Garland's also.  RFK understood that you could use celebrities in PR terms--like filling MSG-- and also as sources of inspiration for the underprivileged. I wrote about how he did this with Dave Hackett in New York City.

I admit I have never put much time into studying the relationship between Monroe and the Kennedy brothers outside of reading what has been posted here from time to time and viewing some interviews of M&M's close lady friend Ms. Carmen and a few others who knew her beyond the many pathetically insecure men who boastingly claimed to have slept with her...even once.

The world famous videotaped scene of MM singing "Happy Birthday Mr. President" to JFK in the most exaggerated breathily sexy voice and seductive half-closed eyes and adorned in an equally sexy, body hugging, shimmering sequined dress couldn't help but plant in the minds of millions who watched that at least a seed of wonder whether she was either half out-of-it on drugs or booze, or perhaps even whether there might be something more between them than just innocent political admiration ... imo anyways.

Whether MM came up with her extremely seductive theatrical performance ( almost laughable in it's exaggeration) in singing "Happy Birthday Mr. President" to JFK on her own ( and what motivated her to do so ) or was put up to it by others, that worldwide viewed scene will forever be one of the most powerful seed of suspicion planting ones regarding even the rumors surrounding the true private life of JFK unfortunately.

And I can't believe class act bred Jackie Kennedy was anything "but" livid at MM forever after watching her sing "Happy Birthday Mr. President" to her husband in the most sexually suggestive voice and dress way possible in view of millions worldwide.

Something akin to JFK going to Jack Ruby's sleazy Carousel Club on his birthday night and having hot blooded "Jada" do an all off strip routine just for him. With his boozed-up buddies cheering, yelling "YEAH BABY" and slapping him on the back throughout?

No first hand knowledge but I've read a thousand times how powerful men often confide secrets to their paramours they wouldn't do so with their own wives.

I believe that old common proposition is true more than it is not.

And there seems to be a valid psychological reason explanation as to why.

I can guess that wealthy men relax themselves with their mistresses. The whole point to having side affair lovers is to do something outside of their normal morally and proper behavior restrictive lives.

Loosen the inner uptight behavior rules...loosen the lips?

I can imagine the things Marilyn Monroe was told by her many lovers.

What did Joe Dimaggio share with MM regards the famous people he had known his whole life. About Frank Sinatra and his deep connection to the mob? The Kennedy's? Maybe J. Edgar Hoover himself?

What did Peter Lawford share with Marilyn M.?

Maybe even the Kennedy's themselves?

Same with every other person she was intimate with?

Marilyn was an intelligent and inquisitive person. She wanted to be taken seriously as an actress.

She married Arthur Miller. She was supposedly attracted to his intellect.

Hooking up with Joe DiMaggio was a curious thing to me. I don't see the attraction. Maybe he was so attentive to her needs and so protective of her...she found something like a father figure attraction to him?

As far as the Kennedy brothers, maybe Marilyn was simply drawn to their power, good looks and their worldwide fame?

Marilyn Monroe was afflicted with a huge emotional hole in her soul.

Anyone can read about her highly unstable and fatherless childhood and foster care shuffling and probably sexual abuse and understand that her brain was wired for adult post traumatic stress disfunction to an extremely high degree.

She was doomed from the beginning to a life of deep and self-destructive emotional instability.

To be damaged like that yet be born into the most physically/sexually attractive body and face of almost any other woman on the planet makes her story one for the ages.

And there was also this unique and innocent little girl playfulness about her that only added to her attraction by men imo.

What a fascinating and alluring mix.

I remember seeing photos and film of her all my childhood.

Just seeing her face and body sent me to a place of yearning bliss. All my worries and negative thoughts just faded away.

What a sad thing that this gift of mind and body pleasing physical beauty was taken from our often ugly world in such a lonely and tragic way.

Joe DiMaggio never got over her...until his dying day.

Listening to the Evelyn Lincoln interview above rekindled my memory of what it was about JFK that set him apart in the minds of millions of Americans and those worldwide.

A man of unprecedented personal warmth, charisma and inspiration.

High bar integrity, thoughtful toward others, humble, kind, etc. etc.

Yet also masculine, virile.

Incredibly affectionate and even playful with his children. Upbeat and light-hearted when he felt he needed to be.

By far, the most handsome president ever.

Always tanned, athletic looking. His constant warm, broad with perfect teeth smile alone ( besides his full head of healthy, full and well-groomed hair and his charming manner) disarmed and enchanted women of every age everywhere and made them swoon with a mesmerized gaze of physical attraction and adoration.

The massive numbers of citizens in every country JFK visited went crazy when seeing him in person. He simply electrified them.

JFK was one of the most intelligent and well-read presidents of the modern era.

I've posted before that JFK ( and Jackie ) captivated the world with a celebrity energy unlike any political leader/couple in history. Immeasurable in it's scope.

Jackie and JFK graced the covers of thousands of celebrity magazines in every country all during his presidency.

Millions worldwide hung pictures of JFK and/or JFK and Jackie in their homes. Even Marina and Lee Oswald kept the Time Magazine cover with JFK's face upon it.

When JFK was slaughtered, the world was left with LBJ.

The JFK/Jackie adoration, physical appeal and inspiration magic was instantly gone ... forever.

What a massive, heart wrenching sad hole in the minds and hearts of the entire world there was after 11,22,1963.

JFK's murder was truly a seriously deeply effecting Post Traumatic Stress event for billions of citizens of the entire world. One they would feel for the rest of their lives when it's memory came into their thoughts.

And then, we were all left with balding, beady eyed, hanging jowls, elephant eared, hulking body, good ole boy drawling LBJ. 

EGADS...what an inspiration, physical attraction let down.

LBJ ... calling in staff to converse with him while leaving the door open to his adjoining bathroom while he defecated with animated sadistic pleasure at their embarrassment? 

The class of JFK versus the crude crassness of LBJ. 

Also immeasurable in it's comparative legacy.

25 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Hi Joe.  It's because it's addresses the big picture both then and over time to now.  How the government and the powers that be which runs it influenced us and how we got from there to here.  Yet it goes into detail.

E.G.  I don't remember reading before that Hoover's # 3 guy at the FBI, Cartha DeLoach said the first version of the Zapruder film he saw showed JFK's head going violently forward initially, like Dan Rather said at the time.  Pg. 79.  This to me lends credence to Dough Horne's detailed assertion of film alteration.  Then there is the Sidny Wilkerson, high resolution, 35-40 film experts part in support of this on pgs. 74-5.  Details matter.

It addresses it the bigger picture in terms of The Media Industrial Complex, Weapons of Mass Distraction and Coincidence Theorists (the nine common tropes of them).  Why, according to Vince Salandria, the violent overthrow of government made the U S into a military regime disguised as a democracy.  Pg. 340. 

It takes one from the JFK assassination to the January 6th 2021 insurrection.  It's about a Cold Civil War.  A fifty six years thread plus by the author only, never hijacked. 

WOW...GREAT SUMMARY! GREAT BOOK!

A GREAT TRUTH CONTRIBUTION GIFT TO US ALL ON JM'S PART.

THANKS.

I believe Joe DiMaggio loved Marilyn Monroe in the deepest sense of the word.

More than any man who had ever married her.

Even after their divorce.

It was so obvious. She truly WAS the love of his life.

The man left flowers on her grave twice a week for 20 years!

Dimaggio took charge of MM's funeral and burial service. Paid for everything.

And, it is common knowledge he refused to allow Frank Sinatra anywhere near MM's funeral service.  Keep your a$$ away from her Frank! 

There was something very powerful in that action on DiMaggio's part imo.

You don't tell the most famous American crooner and Mafia connected " Chairman Of The Board" to take a hike like that. That took guts on DiMaggio's part.

MM was the most famous sex symbol movie star ever.

Sinatra probably wanted to be a part of her service.

And he couldn't have been more disrespected than to be told " stay away" by ole Joltin' Joe.

Even if DiMaggio felt the Kennedy's were somehow connected to MM's death, he also knew how Marilyn M. was used and abused by people in the organized crime world. And he hated them for it.

Just my theory.

2 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Maybe the most overlooked book recently is Dr. Joseph Mc Bride's Political Truth, The Media Assassination of President Kennedy.

Your general summary of McBride's book and why you assign to it such a high importance value regards the JFKA truth Ron?

For those of us who haven't read it or have only just read certain passages JM has posted here on the forum?

13 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

There is none.

No one book can adequately sum up this whole case since it had just gotten too big, especially with the work of the ARRB.

Yes, there is just too much to cover and learn.

Too many illogical aspects to MM's death, death scene and the persons there and soon showing up there and who waited so long before they even called the police to not rationally suspect something much more nefarious than the simple story she just wanted to end it all "on her own" and did.

One might also consider the fact that people who overdose often may not realize how many pills they have actually taken, due to the impaired effect of the first handful they take, and in so doing in a way, debatably, accidentally kill themselves.

Is that what happened to MM?

I don't want to believe RFK would ever do anything as diabolical as okaying the killing of a woman he and/or his brother may have had sexual relations with. 

For "any" reason.

It would be the ultimate cynicism on top of so much already regards the killings of JFK, RFK and MLK.

I do not know Tippit's educational background but I surmise from general reading he wasn't the most literate of persons.

If so, one might reasonably contemplate the possibility that writing detailed reports of his daily call activities might not have been of Tippet's favorite police patrolmen duties?

Still, would have been interesting to have read at least a few of his report takings.

That list of personnel of the DPD is so extensive in number it's kind of exhausting to go through it.

What, 1,000 employees?  Their yearly budget must have been huge.

Noticed dozens of stenographers. Not one was called into Captain Will Fritz's interrogations of Oswald?

Noticed the name of a patrol officer who was listed as serving in the same Southwest station area as Tippit in 1963 - Tommy Tilson.

It was a relatively small group. I would imagine Tilson knew Tippit as well as any other same station beat cop.

Tilson testified in the "Trial Of Lee Harvey Oswald" documentary where famous attorneys Gerry Spence and Vincent Bugliosi squared off.

Tilson was never asked by either Spence or Bugliosi whether he knew Tippit as a same beat location fellow officer.

Tilson later dated famous LBJ mistress Madeline Brown.

One thing you will never find in any J.D. Tippit note takings; his affair with married waitress Johnny Witherspoon.

She worked in a restaurant in Tippet's beat area. At one point, Witherspoon reportedly lived very close to the Tippet murder scene location.

Wasn't Roscoe White also employed by the Dallas PD in 1963? He wasn't on the extensive list above.

Just some anecdotal tidbits.

Our major mainstream media could never honestly and seriously report the possibility of JFK's murder being ordered, planned and carried out by members of our own government, using experienced covert agents to handle the actual action.

As described in Talbot's "Devils Chessboard."

Yet, the truth is those high power agents and many above them did hate JFK ( and RFK ) deeply enough to want to see him dead.

We have testimony from many close to those figures who offer quotes by them verifying their deadly sentiments.

William Harvey, David Morales, Frank Sturgis, even Hunt himself and so many others in that realm rabidly hated JFK. And probably even celebrated his brutal murder.

So, the personal hate motive was certainly present and deep in the mind sets of these dangerous and highly connected and unlimited resource access men.

That is at least one verifiable fact that the mainstream media can never dispute and which keeps the Hunt "Big Event" story a possibility that cannot be totally dismissed.

Personally, I always believed the core of E. Howard Hunt's "Big Event" end of life confessional story. Also believing however, that he purposely left out details involving his own participation to protect his surviving children, and to protect his beloved mentor Allan Dulles.

If Angleton really did give Mary Meyer's children her dairy, who's to say that in the time he possessed it certain content "edits" may have been made to it?

And if Mary Meyer's diary actually contained passages that proved she and JFK had been lovers off and on for quite awhile, Meyer's children could have made millions selling the diary and it's JFK contents to the highest bidder for book and maybe even film rights.

Who knows what other bombshell revelations may have been in Meyer's diary.

I could also understand Mary Meyer's grieving children not wanting their mother's private sexual affair recountings and thoughts to be exposed for all to see.

Didn't WAPO Editor Ben Bradlee and his wife ( Meyers sister? ) make a frantic beeline to Mary Meyer's home and studio immediately after her murder looking for her diary, at the exact time Angleton had broken into the property looking for it as well?