Joe Bauer

These ominous yet often dead-end side stories have always intrigued me.

I have several times posted that it seems logical that there would be many ( perhaps hundreds ) of people who had some type of contact with the main JFK/Oswald/Ruby story characters leading up to 11,22,1963 and who possessed 1st, 2nd or 3rd hand knowledge of information that would be revealing of truths different than what we know to degrees ranging from surprising to shocking.

And for every reason that people might have for never revealing this information, like fear for themselves and their families, they chose to keep it secret their entire lives.

Any information revealing about the JFKA and Oswald killing that contradicted the official record was always known to be potentially very dangerous to one's health.

That was the common thought back then and to many, even decades later.

If I knew something about the JFKA that would prove that others were involved and who they might be, especially if those involved were from powerful entities, I would be more inclined to not come forward than to do so.

My own sense of logic tells me there are many such stories that we will never be made aware of.

Yet, it would be fascinating to hear of even 1/4th of them.

The Oxnard Calif. call and death of "Karyn Kupcinet" is one such ominously intriguing story that has never been easily dismissed imo.

Another is the 40+ years late life sharing of a Dallas area woman ( Mary Ada Dowling ) who stated in an interview that she was a waitress at Dobbs restaurant on North Beckley in Oak Cliff for a year and a half up until 11,22,1963.

In her time there she remembered seeing Jack Ruby and DPD officer Jefferson Davis ( J.D. ) Tippit sitting together and talking in her restaurant.

I think she said it was more than one time. She also knew the woman Tippit was apparently having an affair with ( Johnny Maxie Witherspoon ) as Ms. Witherspoon worked with her as a waitress at Dobbs!

She believed she saw Oswald himself come into the restaurant. Remember, Oswald rented a room on North Beckley.

She also said she once remembered seeing Oswald sitting with another man and they both spoke a foreign language in their discussion.

Ms. Dowling shared her story over 40 years after the JFKA. And she did so....off camera. She didn't want herself to be seen in this interview video.

Does that sound like someone seeking attention? And she never made a dime from her story. She said she remained silent for 40 years due to fear. The most logical explanation especially considering the subject matter.

And maybe she didn't want to bring any pain to Marie Tippit regards her recounting her husband's affair with Ms. Witherspoon?

I just happened to stumble upon an episode of the PBS production "Antique Roadshow" a couple of hours ago.

This took place in Spokane, Washington in 2015.

At the end of this episode they appraised a collection of papers directly connected to JFK while he was in office.

These were owned by a woman who was actually employed in the JFK White House Press Office and who worked under Pierre Salinger. She was very young in 1963.

I've included a link to the interview below. 

I think it would be better for our members to watch the interview versus me trying to summarize it.

However, one personally disturbing side story:

This woman flew on Air Force 1 from DC to Dallas.

She was still on the plane " I was actually in the President's cabin" when she was informed of JFK being shot...and then dying.

She left Air Force 1 immediately and mentioned that it was now LBJ's and his staff's plane.

What really hit me in her recollections of that day was her stating she flew back to DC on a back-up plane.

She said the Texas delegation flew back on this same plane.

She said flying back on that plane was a very unpleasant experience for her.

The reason being that some of the Texas people actually seemed "happy" on this flight.

Reminds me of Texas Congressperson Albert Thomas giving LBJ that sickening smiling and winking "Atta Baby" look just seconds after he ( LBJ ) was sworn in as President on Air Force 1.

And Virginia Murchison's housekeeper May Newman relating that the Murchison family celebrated JFK's death. "Like champagne and caviar flowed for a week."

May Newman - "I was the only one grieving over JFK's death."

Click on the words below "1961-1963 JFK archive" to see the video.

The woman talks about the unpleasant flying experience with the Texas delegation near the end of the interview.

1961-1963 JFK archive;

6 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

The evidence that McNamara was Kennedy's point man is pretty obvious.

1. In November of 1961 Kennedy called a meeting, with about 8 men and this included McNamara and Bundy and Taylor. He was upset about the debates over NSAM 111. He said strongly that once policy is decided, the men on the spot support it or get out. Once that sunk in, he asked, "Now who is going to implement my policy on Vietnam?" McNamara said he would.

2. When Galbraith came into town in April of 1962, he had already delivered three reports--which Kennedy advised him to do-- telling JFK that Vietnam was not worth going to war over and Diem was not the guy to back in a war. Kennedy sent him to see McNamara and instruct him about the future in Vietnam.  He did and reported back that McNamara got the message.

3. McNamara told his deputy, Roswell Gilpatric, that JFK was getting out of Vietnam and he had instructed him to start unwinding the Pentagon effort there.

4. The next month, in May of 1962, after Galbraith met with him, McNamara conducted the Sec Def meeting for the Vietnam higher ups.  He told the overall commander, Harkins, to stay after. When the door was closed and just Harkins and his staff was there, he told him that we were getting out of Vietnam and he wanted him to start making arrangements for the withdrawal and final training of the ARVN.  According to Harkins' staffer, the general's chin almost hit the table.

5. At the May 1963 Sec Def meeting, the schedules Harkins ordered were handed into McNamara at the Sec Def meeting in Hawaii.  McNamara looked at them and said they were too slow and should be speeded up.

6. That October, after Kennedy had supplied the people on the McNamara/Taylor report team with the report already written, Sullivan tried to take out the withdrawal part.  Kennedy called a small meeting in his office and had it placed back in.  At the meeting it was McNamara who led the charge for withdrawal to the point it took Bundy by surprise.  Years later he realized that JFK thought he was too hawkish to be trusted with the plan and he had gone around him through  McNamara.

7. At the end of the meeting, Kennedy sent McNamara out to talk to the press.  As the Secretary was walking out, Kennedy opened up a window and told him: "And tell them that means the helicopter pilots too."

8. After LBJ reversed the policy, McNamara began to suffer from depression, and manic moods.  This was as early as 1966.  His secretary said that, at times he would just stare off into space, or walk over to the window, wrap himself in the curtains and start weeping.  LBJ finally had him removed.  To the end, McNamara said he could never figure out if he was fired or he resigned.

9. At his Pentagon exit debriefs, which John Newman heard, McNamara stated that he and Kennedy had agreed that America could supply equipment and training and advisors. They could not fight the war for Saigon.  Therefore, when that training was over, we were leaving, and it did not matter if Saigon was winning or losing. America was getting out.

 

Bingo!

If RFK somehow got enough votes in the primaries to be included in the general election as a 3rd party candidate it would only hurt the Democrats.

Robert Kennedy Jr's name recognition alone would attract millions of voters.

But none of those voters would come from the Republican side.

They are locked in and the Kennedy personae is too liberal for them.

If Ralph Nader could pull away 2 million Democratic voters when he ran...RFK would certainly garner way more support than that. The Kennedy name and charisma is still alive with baby boomer Democrats imo.

In 1996 Ross Perot actually pulled votes away from George Bush Sr. much more than Clinton. If it weren't for Ross Perot, Clinton would have lost that election.

Perot's 1996 presidential election vote total was 19.7 million!

That was 18.9 percent of the popular vote!

I would guess RFK Jr. could pull in 3 to 4 million votes if he ran as a 3d party candidate.

Maybe even more.

Enough to give the Republicans the White House.

36 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

I discuss the shooting re-enactments and what they demonstrate here: https://www.patspeer.com/chapter-4g-thoughts-on-shots-and-the-curtain-rod-story

Wow Pat.

Lots of well researched info.

A few quick thought questions:

If Oswald practiced shooting his rifle several times around Dallas while he lived in Oak Cliff, how did he get the rifle out of Ruth Paine's garage each time which is where the rifle was stored since Marina moved in months previous?

And then back again?

Where else may Oswald have stored the rifle besides Ruth Paine's garage?

Shaneyfelt with his mechanical rifle simulator machine in the photo. He could not get close enough to even look through the scope.

Frazier said they made bullseye hits 3 times in the "space of a dime"  when the scope was properly aligned?

At a target 264 feet away? GEEMINY CHRISTMAS!

And was that target also moving at the time?

3 different ways...away and at a downward declining angle and JFK's head and upper body also moving two feet to his left after he is hit in the back? All that target movement between the 2nd and 3rd shot?

Ear witness describe the last two shots as being very close together. Not enough time to lower your rifle, do the bolt action and realign your scope sight.

Oswald's co-worker Harold Norman reenacted the rifle shots he heard above him including their time frame sequence.

He depicted them all as being equally spaced out with no longer or shorter pauses between them.

"BOOM click click, BOOM click click, BOOM click click."

Which if he is to be believed could suggest that the short time frame between the 2nd and 3rd shots as described by farther away ear witnesses could have been an echo effect of the 2nd shot?

And echo that Harold Norman could not hear due to his location inside a building?

And he was just ten feet below the rifle shots!

2 hours ago, Michael Griffith said:

A few other facts to keep in mind about the CBS rifle test:

-- All the participants were experienced riflemen. One of them was Howard Donahue, who, not surprisingly, shot the best score.

-- The riflemen were given the chance to fire practice shots before the test began, a luxury that Oswald would not have had.

-- A shot was counted as a "hit" if it landed anywhere in the target silhouette. Many of those "hits" would have caused only minor wounds.  

-- The CBS riflemen did not fire in the cramped conditions in which the alleged lone gunman fired. They didn't even fire through a half-opened window. 

-- Several of the experienced riflemen failed to score two hits on any of their attempts. 

Any truly realistic rifle test would include only military vets who never scored higher than the level of Sharpshooter and who had engaged in minimal target practice over the preceding few years. It would also simulate the cramped conditions of the sixth-floor sniper's nest. The "hits" in a realistic test would only be shots that landed in approximately the same locations that Oswald's two alleged hits supposedly landed.

One real life condition dynamic ( an important one ) that can never be adequately "simulated" in shooting reenactments:

The life and death risk at any second threat fear that Oswald or any shooter must have felt while shooting at the President of the United States...in front of hundreds of eyewitnesses and scores of armed security just feet below.

Oswald or whoever had to know that his rifle's super loud shots would immediately draw attention to his easily seen open window perch location.

Every person in Dealey Plaza could see the bright direct noontime sunlight illuminated face of the Texas School Book Depository building. It was right there in front of everybody like a giant theater movie screen.

And with one complete loud shot miss and a second loud shot hit that was survivable the pressure to make that 3rd bullseye kill shot must have been body tensing desperate.

That head shot was taken at the absolute last possible doable second.

JFK's limo would have kept going down and away, Clint Hill might have been able to get on the trunk and block JFK and Jackie and another shot would have made the shooters location even more easy to locate.

The last possible chance for an accurate JFK head shot was in that last 1 to 3 second time frame.

Logic suggests that real life and death threat desperate time frame pressure would most certainly increase the difficulty of replicating the JFK bullseye head shot even more by reenactors ... imo anyways.

Police agency interview reports are always totally truthful?

Julia Ann Mercer and her FBI interview? No notary present. Altered signature not her own?

Many WC witness's claimed their testimony was altered or in the least reported with bias.

High cred journalist Seth Kantor for one.

Heck, important evidence documents are even ripped up and flushed down toilets as "Assignment Oswald" author agent James P. Hosty chucklingly admitted regards his office's Oswald file.

Ruby's involvement with gun running is alluded to in many interviews of people close to Ruby whether short term or long term.

Former Ruby employee Nancy Hamilton related a meet up regards gun running where Jack Ruby showed up as the money man in such a proposed scheme.

I just read Ruby employee Andy Armstrong's testimony. He also mentions gun running and Ruby. Not in detail but he does mention Ruby getting guns, perhaps illegal pistol's ...one for his sister and another person?

The argument that Julia Ann Mercer's story was an attention seeking fabrication and totally misinformed is so weak.

In the Clay Shaw trial the booking officer in the New Orleans police department ( "Aloysius Habighorst " ) stated that when he asked Clay Shaw if he had any other names he used that Shaw stated "Clay Bertrand."

Trial judge refused to allow his testimony in the trial.

And on and on.

And as far as General Lansdale not wearing a ring...I'd like to look back at some of the other photos of him to verify that proposition.

33 minutes ago, Andrew Prutsok said:

Tracey is the "reporter,"  a few years back who whined about getting assaulted by Maxine Waters -- assaulted by Maxine Watters?

She blew a kiss at him?

You call that "assault?"

42 minutes ago, Allen Lowe said:

apologies for being overly glib; I just worry, on this topic, that we have to be as attentive to detail and credibility as possible.

The postings regards Prouty in this thread are incredibly researched and fascinating to read.

Amazing the deep reading research findings our members have dug up.

Prouty is being portrayed here as an enigma to say the least.

However, without Prouty the importance of JFK's Viet Nam policy and it's possible part in his removal would never have been brought out to the study degree it has since.

Prouty did expose many truths about the inner workings of highest intel apparatus that we would not know of as we now do.

19 hours ago, Allen Lowe said:

in terms of appearance, how many tramps have you known and met?

AL...you've got me there.

I admit, my take on their dress is based only on my general perception of such.

I have traveled by train a dozen times in my life and been around fairly large train yards where passenger trains and cargo cars all stop and go through.

I've seen a few wandering fellows in those yards and even seen some on box cars as the long cargo trains go through cities and along roadways. Lot of rail traffic here in California.

Commercial train depots and most every open box car I have ever seen were filthy, as one would expect. Dirt, dust, debris, oily grime, rust, graffiti...you name it.

I assume the Dallas train yard and box cars there in 1963 were no different?

Still, my dress and appearance take on someone being found hanging around or even in box cars like the ones the Dallas "tramps" were found and pulled from is only a general assumption.

Shouldn't have posted it really.

Oh, just remembered an interesting memory of my own small town back in 1963, even when JFK was killed on 11,22,1963.

We actually had our own small train depot in our little coastal town of Pacific Grove, CA.

It was originally built in the late 1800's!

Southern Pacific has always had a rail system that brought people and cargo from the San Francisco Bay area...all the way down to Santa Cruz and even the Monterey Peninsula.

This was a separate route besides the main route that went through Salinas and farther South.

Amazingly the tracks rode right along and on the top of the shoreline, just 100 feet from the little inlet beaches and rocky outcropping into the water below.

You'll recall this rail route and tracks running right through Steinbeck's Cannery Row. Doc Ricketts was killed one evening as his car was hit by the train there.

As a kid, all of us young boys here were constantly walking these rails as they took you all along the shoreline and from one town to the next.

Our little old train station's main passenger loading building was abandoned in the 1940's or 50's I believe.

Amazingly the train company just left it standing and deteriorating with broken windows and dirt everywhere for years after!

It was like an old movie set! Fascinating place for young boys to wander through and throw a few more rocks through the windows.

I am also amazed the city let it stand like that for years. No "NO TRESPASSING" signs, ever.

I think one reason was that there was still a train coming through there almost daily on weekdays.

The tracks through our little town dead-ended at a large "sand plant" that operated at the edge of Pebble Beach next to a long stretch of sandy beach called "Asilomar."

This company was removing sand there, bagging it and the train would come down and load up and take it back to the Bay Area or wherever, to the glass manufacturers who used the sand for that purpose.

My oldest brother actually got a summer job at the sand plant lifting and throwing 100lb bags of sand into the box cars during the late 1950s!

He injured his back doing that ( but continued working until the end of Summer because he needed the money ) and this plagued him the rest of his life. No injury compensations back then. 

Our little train depot had a water tower, an engine "turn around" apparatus and a few side tracks off the main one.

The famous writer Lucius Beebe would have the train bring his own private box car to our little coast-side station from San Francisco, have it pulled off on a side track and stay there for days at a time? Maybe a week?

I know this because as a kid walking by this ornate private car I stopped and gawked at it one day...just walking the tracks and wandering through the old station.

I met the writer sitting or standing on the open stair platform there. He didn't introduce himself. He just said something like "hello son." He had one or two large dogs with him.

I walked on. I read much later who he was from local newspaper articles.

But relating back again to the original subject of the filth of trains and depots and tracks ... 

There was so much dirt and oily grime throughout the station and tracks.

The track supporting timbers were soaked in creosote.

You could literally touch this black tar stuff. It oozed out of the wood.

Once it got on your hands and clothes it was a b**** to ever get it off.

Same with walking all through Cannery Row on the tracks there.

Back in the 1950's Cannery Row itself was 90% abandoned as the sardines had been fished out by then and all the old cannery buildings were just crumbling.

Cannery Row was just filthy...and it even stunk!

I can remember seeing large drums full of used oil ( sardine oil? ) just sitting next to the one or two old cannery buildings still operating there in the 1950's. We used to stir the odd color oil with old sticks we found.

They stunk.

Starting with arson fires there like crazy in the late fifties and this dirty lot filled place being bought up "dirt cheap", all of a sudden Steinbeck's old funky Cannery Row was turned into this tourist trap circus with trinket shops and restaurants.

When the Italians built the famous "Sardine Factory" restaurant there ( with dirt lots on either side ) Cannery Row tourist trap building really went into full gear.

You can see the empty lots next to the Sardine Factory restaurant in the Clint Eastwood film "Play Misty For Me." Clint's character would go into the Sardine Factory bar to get beers regularly throughout the film.

Just some real life experience memories...with dirty train tracks and seeing empty train box cars up close as a kid back in the late 1950's and early 1960's here on the central California Coast.

Could it be that the "source" Tucker Carlson mentioned who had queued him into his CIA did it TV claim was ...RFK Jr.?

36 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

My reading of the Durham report is that the Russia investigation was begun without enough evidence to justify it. That does not mean that the investigation didn’t find evidence of collusion. 

Agree.

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

Let's dive right in.  The start of chapter 8, page 51.

"I'll tell you one thing: we're . . . not on . . . a fishing expedition."  -U.S. Attorney Arnold Stone, Organized Crime Task Force.  Dallas, Texas, October 2, 1963.

In early January 1963, at Robert Kennedy's Directive, Assistant U.S Attorney General Herbert Miller instructed the regional office of the IRS in Dallas to investigate Joe Civello's largest bookmaker, John Eli Stone for tax evasion".  Hoover was aware of all of this.

pg. 52.  "John Eli Stone and his brother James used the phone lines of a downtown Dallas cleaners, the Enrique Shine and Press shop, owned by the Miller brothers Isadore and Dave, as the "wire" to coordinate the handling of bets in their illegal bookmaking operation.  Each day John Stone got the "line" through a Mob contact in Las Vegas.  He then relayed the information to Isadore at the Enrique.  Stone then called Bosco and provided the same." "Operatives used the Enrique to place bets and pick up winnings.  The IRS discovered this and placed both physical and electronic surveillance on the operation." "It was quickly learned that Dave Miller worked closely with bookmaking operative Jack Ruby.  The latter owned a strip club called the Carousel, located two doors down."

"Ruby directed customers wishing to place bets to Miller.  Ruby also placed bets directly for customers and was observed by federal investigators entering the Enrique on a regular basis in 1963."

Wife says come watch this movie and eat(!).   More tomorrow. 

There it is RB!

The real Ruby!

Connected to higher ups way more than the WC stated.

Lewis McWillie ( Ruby's mentor friend) was up there with the big boys.

Exactly.

John Judge filled in the very early secret planning for the war very thoroughly.

As Donald Sutherland said to Costner in JFK...the purpose of war...*******

Vietnam made a lot of people a lot of money.

We expended "TRILLIONS" on Iraq and Afghanistan.

TRILLIONS!

Our military funding priorities have always taken precedence over our social needs. By a huge margin.

That is why America is noticeable way down the list on the World Health standards of living amongst the industrialized nations of the Earth.

Wondering...perhaps JFK meant that he would still support South Vietnamese efforts to fight the North in every way "except" sending in massive of numbers of American troops?

13 hours ago, Charles Blackmon said:

Fascinating stuff. Keep laying it out there Jim . 

Agree.

19 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Joe:

That restaurant was in Brentwood and is a really nice place.  

I think I had the sea bass.  I don't recall what Mamet or Oliver had.  But even the Maitre'd came up to our table, and this was the afternoon, not evening.

But the best story about a fancy restaurant that I have was my lunch with Rob Reiner.  

This was about five doors down from the place with Mamet and Oliver in Brentwood.  This one did not even have a street sign on it.  All it had was a little sign on the outside wall which was so small I missed it.  

Anyway, they parked my car for me before I went in.  Then when I came out, they had my car ready for me.  I asked the guy, "How did you know I was going to be coming out?"  He said the waiter radios out the seat number which is linked to a name.

Sort of like Denny's eh?

Sea bass is one of my top 3 main course choices for the ultimate high end dining out experience.

All the fancy restaurant dining I experienced was always due to the generosity of others.

The ones I mentioned earlier happened long ago in 1985.

Last 20 years it's been back to my regular low manual labor income lifestyle.

Yesterday for instance my main meal was a $3 Jack In The Box value meal Jr. hamburger.

An indulgence I admit. I allowed myself this due to my wife's visiting relatives out of town.

I'm a big "Banquet" frozen dinner gourmand now. Their Mac And Cheese is excellent.

Our California monthly rent cost leaves us in a barely getting by lifestyle now.

Not complaining or crying about our situation. It's far too common for millions of us retired Americans. Still get to live in one of the most ideal locations in the country. The beautiful coastal shoreline is always just 10 minutes away.

Getting back to Mamet. 

Hope he brings his usual gritty dialogue magic to this new flick, even if it is a red herring JFKA story line imo.

The very first book I read about the assassination was Jim Garrison's "On The Trail Of The Assassins."

Stone kept close to Garrison's tome throughout the film.

New Orleans in the 50's and early sixties - seedier, weirder and more sinfully corrupt than one could imagine or make up.

More crazy exaggerated larger than life characters in one place than any other American city of that size, by far.

Ferry

Clay Bertrand

Dean Andrews

Guy Bannister

Jack Martin

Oswald

Orest Pena

Carlos Bringuier

Warren De Brueys

Carlos Marcello

Alton Oschner

Dr. Mary Sherman

Judyth Vary Baker

Voodoo, jazz, jambalaya, female and male prostitutes, strippers, hot headed Cubans all running around in frantic circles of intrigue and sin.

The ghost of privateer Jean Lafitte wafting up in steamy apparitions on the Bayous from time to time.

How did Jim Garrison choose such a nutty place to practice law and politics?

On 5/14/2023 at 4:17 PM, James DiEugenio said:

In my view, if Carlos was alive and i was running the trial, he would be my last witness. Oswald would be acquitted and I would buy Hathcock a filet mignon and a bottle of wine of his choice, but not Dom Perignon.  Only if Oliver was there to pick up the tab on that one.

HA!

The best I could offer Hathcock would be a Denny's Senior Menu country fried steak dinner ... with a chocolate shake?

If he demanded champagne the most I could afford would be "Cooks."

$5 to $10 a bottle. Light colored cooking wine with added carbonation.

And by the way...very curious:

What tasty gourmet dishes did you all order at that fancy-schmancy restaurant you, Stone and Mamet dined at together?

I once dined at Spagos...as well as the Polo Lounge at the Beverly Hills hotel.

Fellow diners at Spago's included Sidney Portier and Zsa Zsa Gabor.

At the Beverly Hills hotel sat next to Max Factor himself. As well as a birthday celebration for Joseph Cotton with Cornell Wilde giving a well wishing toast speech.

Now-a-days my gourmet dining splurge is a 7-11 hotdog and slurpy.

Times are tough here in out-of-this-world rent, gas and food cost California.

On 5/15/2023 at 8:30 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Yes that was me and Oliver he had lunch with.

See, the problem is that this is now a package.  Which means it has everything in place for it to get sold.

When you get that many big names--even though some are past their prime like Travolta and Pacino--it is very hard to derail that because everyone smells the money.  This includes the agents and managers.

I could write Mamet, since he gave me his home address.  But I do not think he will reply.

And anyway, they would just replace him.

Mamet's older project "Blackbird" would have made a more compelling JFKA fiction story imo.

And Kate Blanchett a more compelling female lead cast member than Courtney Love.

I find it odd that Mamet would have lunch with you and Oliver Stone ( and one assumes express at least "some" shared common belief interest in your "JFK Revisited" ? ) and then go off and all in on a film that will probably make money due to it's all-star cast and high budget marketing but will only dilute the JFKA truth ( a tragic consequence imo ) in the minds of younger generations of Americans.

Did Mamet even mention this film project to you and OS at that lunch?

The money people are always the big force behind greenlighted "A list" films.

Who the heck is "308 Enterprises?"

Where does their big bucks money come from?

Tom Hanks co-produced and financed the biggest JFKA bomb movie of all time..."Parkland."

It's all-star cast consisted of Hank's son Colin, Zac Efron, Tom Welling, Paul Giamatti, Marcia Gay Harding and Billy Bob Thornton...but those veteran actors could not draw in more than one or two paying audience viewers a show.

Closed here in Monterey, Ca after two days!

My wife went with me to see the film only because I begged her.

The only other audience member was a black bearded "Bluto" look-alike character with a big hairy belly protruding out from under a dirty sweat-stained T-shirt and who fell asleep twenty minutes into the film and snored so loud we couldn't hear the dialogue!

My wife left minutes after suffering through the flat script and Bluto's snoring.

This new JFKA film cast is top of the line and with marketing it will probably make it's budget. But what a shame imo that Mamet's great talent is going into such a project.

Jim Di...if someone offered you a million bucks upfront...could you be tempted to be involved in a film such as this?

If it would make your retired life more secure monetarily I certainly wouldn't judge you for making that decision. Life in this country is rough when you barely make it financially.

Maybe you are not in that position but my family is on the edge trying to make the monthly rent here in insane rentsville Calif.

I would be tempted I admit.

It's only a film...right?

I still think my JFKA related film idea ( a multi- episode television one ) on the Oswald killing ( "He's Been Shot-He's Been Shot ...Lee Oswald Has Been Shot!" ) would do alright in the audience rating game on that level. A true mystery of impossibly improbable Dallas PD negligence that changed the world and America's perceptions of governmental trust.

And it's too late now for a Dorothy Kilgallen film. But I always felt that her life and death story was one of the most illogically ignored ones ever.

Highest society glamor and fame, highest creds in writing and investigating and national TV star...all ended at a relatively young age under the most ominous circumstances after involving herself in the Jack Ruby murder case.

Hated by the Mob, Frank Sinatra, J. Edgar Hoover himself. 

Now THERE's a great film story! Meryl Streep would have made a great older Dorothy Kilgallen to boot.

What "didn't" the Dallas PD do in their handling of Oswald from 11,22,1963 to 11,24,1963 that was so wrong headed it resulted in the greatest, worst case scenario act of American city police department criminal suspect security negligence in American history?

Letting their building be turned into a press crushing circus the entire time with cameras on wheels, cables to trip on, banging on doors for photo ops, cops escorting Oswald himself having to shove their way from room to room, etc. etc. ?

Then their decision to move Oswald ( the most threatened criminal suspect in American history ) during the day and "announcing to the public" the location and approximate time of the move?

Ignoring the most logical security advice to do so at night with no public announcements?

Failure begging insanity. To a suspicion shouting degree!

Oswald being shot to death right in their own building amidst 70 or so armed security personnel all around while tens of millions of Americans are watching this on live national TV was the true beginning of mass national mistrust of our government regards what really happened regards the JFKA.

Thanks to the Dallas PD and their management in late November, 1963 America lost the most important piece of evidence in the JFKA case. In fact, the only one real chance we would ever have to know the truth.

And no one in charge of that greatest city police department security failure negligence in American history got fired...or even reprimanded?

The feds aggressively violated Texas state law by hijacking JFK's dead body back to Washington DC.

They should have just as aggressively taken Lee Oswald to a much more secure holding federal facility versus leaving him in the hands of an unprepared and known JFK hating city police department that also felt their suspect Oswald had viciously slaughtered one of their own which is always a red flag regarding the physical security of such a suspect in their custody being possibly compromised.

Considering these other facts about Oswald's alleged shooting at and hitting JFK.

We've all mentioned how Oswald had to be highly stressed.

Especially with his 3rd and last chance shot.

Missing that JFK probably would have survived his upper back/chest wound.

It was a true life and death threat situation for Oswald.

Any second the cops might have seen him shooting that last shot and raced up to turn him into Swiss cheese.

But here is another weird thing.

Jackie Kennedy's head was just inches from JFK's when the shooter took that shot.

The shooter must have known that if that shot was just 10 to 12 inches off on the left side, he would have blown Jackie's head off instead of JFK's.

It was a risk only the most cold-blooded killer would have taken.

If it was Oswald, he really had to have been motivated with blind rage to ignore the risk of killing an innocent party like Jackie.

On 5/14/2023 at 1:41 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Yes, I remember that one also Pamela.

And finally there was the late Carlos Hathcock, the greatest sniper of the Vietnam War.

What was Hathcock's finding?

9 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

What's illogical is rejecting the arrest reports of the actual three tramps, which show them to be nothing more than... tramps. This was thoroughly confirmed in 1992 reporting by Mary and Ray La Fontaine.

Dysfunctional people riding the rails all across the country has always been a reality.

I think even today many still hop non-passenger trains, traveling to and fro.

The Hunt looking Tramp is dressed like someone who you would expect to see climbing down off a box car.

Really dirty and ill-fitting clothes. Scuffed, well worn shoes. Crumpled hat.

Scruffy stubble. Weather beaten face.

The other two guys are too clean looking. Well fitting clothes. Nice shoes. Clean shaven too?

And what decently dressed and groomed alcoholic chooses to go to the train yard and jump into a filthy box car to do his drinking?

When they could do this in less derelict and dirty locations?

Except for the E. Howard Hunt look-alike the other two fellows were too well dressed and shaven to be real hobo's imo.

There is currently a Netflix TV movie show about Hunt and Liddy regards the Watergate event.

In one episode we see Hunt donning a wig to hide his true identity during one of his escapades before the Watergate break-in.

We all know fake disguises were definitely part of the intel covert actions protocol from time to time.

Elaborate ones included.

It's not illogical to keep this reality in mind when considering the possibility of disguises being used in important covert events.