Denny Zartman

And thank you all for such kind comments. I'm very grateful. It's an honor to be on the forum with you all.

I'll throw in my two cents. This is an interesting thread. @Stephanie Goldberg  @John Kozlowski @Darrell Curtis - I appreciate all of your posts and questions. They can provide insight and give us some fresh perspectives, especially for some of us who occasionally can't see the forest for the trees. Thank you for being on the forum.

I feel much the same way you all do about posting and participating here. I thought I knew a bit about this subject, but the depth of information on this forum continually shows me how little I really know. There are so many experts and published authors here as well, and I hate to reveal my lack of knowledge and embarrass myself in front of researchers I admire. I always feel presumptuous whenever I post on this forum, because I feel I don't measure up. On the other hand, I feel that when I do post, I am trying to up my game and keep my standards as high as possible. I try to post mainly when I feel I have something of value to contribute. So, ultimately I believe it helps in my critical thinking skills and my overall understanding of this case. At least, I hope it does.

I had to step away for a few months because of burnout. I have been trying to write my own thing about the JFK assassination for years and basically feel defeated by it. I am no one to criticize anyone else's efforts to bring this subject to younger generations because I'm unable to do it myself. The subject seems too big for me to handle. It's a shame, because this is such an endlessly fascinating case filled with drama and mystery, and there always seems to be something new to learn. It's also important for us to know the truth of our history. I'd love to be able to present this subject in a clear and compelling way to an audience that knows nothing at all about it, and somehow capture what it is that keeps me interested.

(And to all the people lurking right now, come on in and join the conversation!)

So, an informal breakdown.

First puddle of blood near the top of the pergola steps west of the TSBD allegedly witnessed by Jerry Coley and witnessed, tasted, and photographed by Jim Hood. This puddle is apparently captured in the Darnell film.

Red liquid was apparently observed on the grassy knoll by Jean Hill and Hugh Aynesworth, even though Aynesworth's investigation allegedly revealed it to be soda and not blood.

Apparently there was a second pool of red liquid that appeared to be consistent with fresh blood was observed by Malcolm Couch near the southwest corner of the TSBD. Couch specifically notes that he observed no broken bottles of soda in the immediate area.

Parkland Nurse Bertha L. Lozano apparently indicates there was a "private patient" that was bleeding and that that person was kept off of the official emergency room record.

Parkland Administrator Charles Jack Price apparently observed a Secret Service agent that had sustained a minor injury.

-

There were early news reports that an agent had been killed during the assassination, but were dismissed as inaccurate later. It seems to me that had someone else been hit by another bullet it would necessitate keeping it absolutely secret. One bullet too many wouldn't fit the timeframe, obviously. Dealing with Tague was tough enough. If this red liquid apparently observed on the ground in Dealey Plaza just after the JFK assassination was indeed only soda, why were there death threats allegedly made against Coley and his wife? Why would FBI agents take the photo negative and urge the news staff to remain silent about the pool of red liquid if it were only soda?

Hi everyone! 🙂 Interesting to return and see this subject being discussed. It's definitely one of the many mysteries of the JFK assassination that fascinates me. Thanks for quoting my transcript @Michael Clark !

Here's Jean Hill's relevant testimony about seeing red liquid on the ground:

…
Jean Hill – Warren Commission testimony
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hill_j.htm
…
Mrs. HILL - Yes; and I don't think he ever did see me. I Just looked at him and dodged then because I thought his wheel was going to hit me, and I don't think he ever did see me, and I ran across through there and started up the hill. When I looked down on the ground, I mean, as I was running up the hill to catch that man, I looked down and saw some red stuff and I thought, "Oh, they got him, he's bleeding," and this is embarrassing, but it turned out to be Koolade or some sort of red drink.
…
Mr. SPECTER - Did you get a very good look at that man, who you say was starting to run?
Mrs. HILL - Well, as I said, when I looked down at this red stuff on the ground, I said, "Oh," you know, to myself, "they hit him." You know, I was going to follow that, and when I looked up again, I looked all around and I couldn't see him anywhere and I kept running toward the train tracks and I looked all around out there and I couldn't see him…
…
Mr. SPECTER - You were trying to catch him?
Mrs. HILL - Yes.
Mr. SPECTER - But you couldn't find him any more?
Mrs. HILL - No; I just couldn't find him again. When I stopped to look down at the grass, at this red stuff and when I looked back up, by that time everyone was screaming and moving around.
…

Now here's the Warren Commission testimony of Malcolm Couch, 25 year old part-time television news cameraman with WFAA-TV Dallas, who says that he saw a SECOND pool of blood near the southwest corner of the TSBD.

...
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/couch.htm
…
Mr. BELIN - Is there any particular reason, Mr. Couch, why you didn't take your first pictures of the School Book Depository Building itself when you say you saw a rifle being withdrawn? 
Mr. COUCH - Well, uh - as best I can recall, the excitement on the ground of the people running and policemen "revving" up their motorcycles - and I have a real nice shot of a policeman running toward me with his pistol drawn - the activity on the ground kept my attention. The reason I did not stay and take pictures of the Depository Building - which I had originally intended to do when I got out of the motorcade - was that - uh - another cameraman from our station, A.J. L'Hoste - [spelling] L-'-H-o-s-t-e - he came running up and - uh - when he ran up, why I said, "you stay here and get some shots of the building and go inside - and I'm going to go back - I'm going to follow the President." 
Mr. BELIN - All right. Was he also a moving picture cameraman? 
Mr. COUCH - Yes; right. 
Mr. BELIN - Where was he at the time you made this statement? 
Mr. COUCH - Uh - he was standing on that little sidewalk that runs between the - I met him on the little sidewalk between the Book Depository property and the beginning of the parkway. 
Mr. BELIN - That would be the west side of the Depository Building? 
Mr. COUCH - That's right; that's right. It's there that I saw blood on the sidewalk. 
Mr. BELIN - All right. Now, you say you saw blood on the sidewalk, Mr. Couch? 
Mr. COUCH - That's right. 
Mr. BELIN - Where was that? 
Mr. COUCH - This was the little walkway - steps and walkway that leads up to the corner, the west corner, the southwest corner of the book Depository Building. Another little sidewalk, as I recall, turns west and forms that little parkway and archway right next to the Book Depository Building. 
Mr. BELIN - Did this appear to be freshly created blood? 
Mr. COUCH - Yes; right. 
Mr. BELIN - About how large was this spot of blood that you saw? 
Mr. COUCH - Uh - from 8 to 10 inches in diameter. 
Mr. BELIN - Did people around there say how it happened to get there, or not? 
Mr. COUCH - No; no one knew. People were watching it - that is watching it carefully and walking and pointing to it. Uh - just as I ran up, policemen ran around the west corner and ran - uh - northward on the side of the building. And my first impression was that - uh - that they had chased someone out of the building around that corner, or possibly they had wounded someone. All of those policemen had their pistols pulled. And people were pointing back around those shrubs and that west corner and - uh - you would think that there was a chase going on in that direction. 
Again, the reason that I didn't follow was because A.J. had come up, and my first concern was to get back with the President. 
Mr. BELIN - This pool of blood - about how far would it have been north of the curbline of Elm Street as Elm Street goes under the expressway? 
Mr. COUCH - I'd say - uh - well, from Elm Street, you mean, itself? 
Mr. BELIN - Yes. This is from that part of Elm Street that goes into the expressway? 
Mr. COUCH - I'd say - uh - 50 to 60 feet, and about 10 to 15 feet from the corner of the Texas Depository Building. 
Mr. BELIN - It would be somewhere along that park area there? 
Mr. COUCH - Right. 
Mr. BELIN - Was there anything else you noticed by this pool of blood? 
Mr. COUCH - No. There were no objects on the ground. We looked for something. We thought there would be something else, but - 
Mr. BELIN - There was nothing? 
Mr. COUCH - Huh -uh. 
...

Two things I found in @Vince Palamara 's book "JFK: From Parkland To Bethesda"

Activities of Bertha L. Lozano, registered nurse at Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas, Texas on November 22, 1963.
Warren Commission Hearings & Exhibits Vol. 21, Pg. 214
…
A technician came to the desk and asked me to expect a private patient who was bleeding.
Administration as well as law enforcement agencies and myself continued to help people to waiting rooms and the Blood Bank.
Blood technicians came to ask me who “Mr. X” was who did not have an E.R. number. Hematology also came with the same problem and was told the same thing.
…

Parkland Administrator Charles Jack Price

Warren Commission Hearings & Exhibits Vol. 21, Pg. 259

...

One of the Secret Service men who had been bruised or had a minor injury came to me and asked if there were another way out of the building.

...

1 hour ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

I agree that the bullet found by Darrell Tomlinson at Parkland was NOT CE 399. As to whether the original bullet was planted, well remember that Tomlinson found it on a stretcher that could not reasonably be associated with either Connally or Kennedy. It was likely on the stretcher of a small boy who was admitted to the ER shortly before the limo arrived. This little boy had suffered a pretty bloody injury from a playground accident, as I recall. In any event, the way Tomlinson described it, the bullet he found was tucked under the mattress and emerged only after he bumped that stretcher with another stretcher. 

It seems impossible that the Tomlinson bullet could have wound up tucked under the stretcher of either man if it just fell out of their clothes or their bodies.

No, I think it is safe to say that bullet, whatever it was, was planted. 

While we all focus on Jack Ruby's probable presence at Parkland at that moment, Harold Weisberg wrote long ago that an anti-Castro Cuban activist, one of the most vehement anti-JFK Cubans in Dallas, was working as an orderly at Parkland. Predictably, the FBI did nothing to identify this man, let alone question him.

Someone planted that bullet, and it was switched later by the FBI for CE 399. (The fact that no one in Dallas identified the TSBD rifle on Friday afternoon as the infamous 6.5 Mannlicher-Carcano is relevant. That rifle was not identified as the MC until after it was in the hands of the FBI, late Friday night/early Saturday morning. Was it switched too? Oh, you betcha!)

I agree with this. Good analysis. I wonder if there is more information about this "anti-Castro Cuban activist" supposedly working at Parkland that day. I also wonder if the bullet first found was intended to match up with the Mauser apparently first found on the sixth floor before it transformed into the Mannlicher-Carcano.

I'm not a fan of the fictionalized transcript of the Rachel Maddow Show. At first glance, people might wonder if it's real, and then when it's revealed not to be real, they might wonder why conspiracy theorists have to start their essays with a piece of fiction. I then look at the other transcripts in the piece, and I have to then wonder if those are real or fictionalized as well. I just don't think it's a good way to introduce this subject to young people who know little or nothing about it.

11 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Pg. 48.  "Reporters are puppets... They simply respond to the pull of the most powerful strings"  - Lyndon Baines Johnson. 

Makes one think of LBJ's statements removed from the Cronkite interview, no?

7 hours ago, Tommy Tomlinson said:

Hello everyone.

Among my friends and pub quiz team, I'm known as "The JFK Guy" but having seen the stuff here I realise how little I truly know. So first, thank you all for providing such valuable information for those of us who don't have access to it.

One thing that has always played on my mind is the interrogation of Oswald subsequent to his arrest in the Movie Theatre on 11/23. (To be honest the entire arrest has me scratching my head... but I'll start with the one that bugs me most.)

My question is this, "How much, if any, of that interrogation found it's way to the WC, and is there a source that I can  look at without having to read the entire WCR?" 

Also, did the WC chastise investigators for the nature of the interrogation, with it's lack of notes and legal representation for the prisoner?

It would be somewhat ironic if the WC had accepted testimony based on questions asked without a lawyer present, given what later happened with Haggerty and the finger print card.

Basically, any info on the interrogation and its subsequent dissemination would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Hi Tommy, welcome to the forum!

Here's Mae Brussell's "The Last Words Of Lee Harvey Oswald", which (as far as I am personally aware) is the most complete summary of everything Oswald said in custody. If there are any major errors or discoveries since it was written in 1978, I hope someone on the forum will please let me know.

Brussell's work seems to compile information from the Warren Commission testimony of Captain Will Fritz, Detectives Richard Stovall and L.C. Graves, Dallas Police Officer L. D. Montgomery, FBI Agents James Bookhout, James Hosty, and Manning Clements, Secret Service Agent Forrest Sorrels, and postal inspector Harry Holmes. Oddly, Brussell's work does not seem to include the statements Oswald made during the press conference or as he was being moved about the police station in proximity to the media.

Below is my compilation of my transcriptions of every bit of Oswald post-assassination footage I could find. Use caution using it as a source because it hasn't been checked by anyone, is incomplete, and I might have made some errors. There's some footage of Oswald complaining about his "hygienic rights" and not being allowed to take a shower out there somewhere, but I haven't been able to find this footage again.

LEE HARVEY OSWALD RECORDED STATEMENTS POST ASSASSINATION
-
Unknown time: After first interrogation session? After Carcano displayed to press at 6:16 PM. Estimated as around 7:16 PM.
LHO: “…people have given me a hearing without legal representation, or anything.”
REPORTER – “Did you shoot the president?”
LHO: “I didn’t shoot anybody, no sir.”
Source – 1, 2
-
7:55 PM
LHO – “I’d like some legal representation. These, these police officers have not allowed me to, to have any. I, uh, I don’t know what this is all about.”
REPORTERS – “How’d you get the black eye?” (crosstalk with) “Did you kill the president?”
LHO – “No sir, I didn’t. People keep asking me that.”
REPORTER – (Inaudible)
REPORTER – “Did you shoot the president?”
LHO – “I work in that building.”
REPORTER – “Were you in the building at that time?”
LHO – “Naturally, if I work in that building, yes sir.”
VOICE – “Back up, man.”
VOICE – “Come on, man.”
REPORTER – “Did you shoot the president?”
LHO – “No, they’ve taken me in because of the fact that I lived in the Soviet Union.”
REPORTER – “What time did you leave the building?”
LHO – “I’m just a patsy.”
Source – 1, 4
-
Unknown time: Also known as Third Hallway Interview
REPORTER: “Here comes Oswald, down the hall again.”
REPORTER- “Did you fire that rifle?”
LHO – “I don’t know what, what dispatches you people have been given, but I emphatically deny these charges.”
REPORTER: “Oswald is hustled, uh, through a doorway.”
LHO: “(Inaudible)…not committed any act of violence.”
REPORTER – “He says he has nothing against anybody; he has not committed any act of violence. Oswald makes this claim as he’s hustled from the interrogation room…”
Source - 1
-
12:00 AM estimated November 23, 1963
Also known as Midnight Press Conference:
LHO – “I positively know nothin’ about this situation here. I would like to have re-, uh, legal representation.”
REPORTERS – (Inaudible crosstalk)
REPORTER – “Louder.”
REPORTERS – (Inaudible crosstalk)
LHO - “Well, I was, uh, questioned by a judge, however I, uh, protested at that time I was not allowed legal representation during that, ah, that ah, very short and sweet hearing. Uh, I really don’t know what, what the situation is about, nobody has told me anything except that I’m accused of, uh, of uh, murdering a policeman. I know nothing more than that, and I do request, uh, someone to come forward, uh, to give me, uh, legal assistance.”
REPORTER – “Did you kill the president?”
LHO – “No, I have not been charged with that, in fact, nobody has said that to me yet. The first thing I heard about it was when the newspaper reporters in the hall, uh, asked me that question.”
(Crosstalk) REPORTER – “You have been charged with…”
(Crosstalk) REPORTER – “Somebody said what?”
LHO – “Sir?”
(Crosstalk) REPORTER – “You have been charged with…”
(Crosstalk) REPORTER – “Somebody said what? We can’t hear you back here.”
VOICE – “Okay.”
REPORTER – “What did you do in Russia?”
REPORTER – “How did you hurt your eye? Mr. Oswald, how did you hurt your eye?”
LHO – “A policeman hit me.”
Source 1, 2, 3
-
Unknown time:
REPORTER – “Oswald, did you shoot the president?”
LHO – “I didn’t shoot anybody, sir. I haven’t been told what I’m here for.”
REPORTER – “Do you have a lawyer?”
LHO – “No sir, I don’t.”
Source - 1
-
Unknown time: Just prior to a police lineup, complaining about shirt.
LHO – “I’ve been photographed in a tee shirt, and now they’re taking me to a line up along with these men (unintelligible) will be picked out. Right?”
VOICE – “That’s right."
Source - 1

-

Sources:
Source 1 - YouTube – “Lee Harvey Oswald in Dallas Police Department” 6 min, 59 sec published by HelmerReenberg on May 15, 2008
Source 2 - YouTube – “JFK - The Dallas Tapes - Original Oswald Footage” 8 min, 40 sec, published by AlBoesch on Jul 4, 2009
Source 3 – YouTube – “November 23, 1963 - Various clips from Lee Harvey Oswald's Midnight Press Conference, Dallas, Texas” 4 min, 26 sec, published by HelmerReenberg on Nov 2, 2015
Source 4 – YouTube – “LEE HARVEY OSWALD DECLARES "I'M JUST A PATSY"” 0 min, 46 sec, published by David Von Pein's JFK Channel on Sep 1, 2013

On 4/25/2019 at 9:37 PM, Ron Bulman said:

The last I remember reading about it and commenting, asking questions, was a thread on here or JFK Facts.  Personally I concluded that IF there was a party at the Murchison's the night before, it was almost impossible LBJ was there.  The planes landed at Carswell close to 11:00 pm.  He was seen leaving in the convoy heading to the Hotel Texas.  Which means he arrived there by the time they disembarked, loaded into the limo's and got there it wasn't too far from midnight.  If I remember right she had him coming out of the private meeting with Murchison, Hoover and others about midnight.  Maybe it was later.  Maybe with his military connections he went immediately back to Carswell and hopped on a chopper for Murchison's.  I'm skeptical.

BTW, he stayed in the Presidential or Honeymoon suite.  The Secret Service chose the second best one for JFK for Security purposes.  Only one door.  So some of them could go to the Cellar and drink.  But Cowtown oil money decorated JFK's suite quite nicely in his Honor for his last night on our planet.

 https://www.politico.com/magazine/gallery/2013/11/suite-850-br-the-view-in-jfks-last-hotel-room-000152?slide=0

Thanks for the answer and for your insight, Ron. Much appreciated! 

What's the current line of thinking about Madeleine Brown and her story?

Well done, fascinating stuff. Thank you for going to all this effort, Denis.

20 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Any not-well-known additional info you have on Roscoe White would be most appreciated.

Sorry to butt in, but I gathered a little bit of info on Roscoe White a few weeks ago, most well known but some might not be. I'll summarize it below, but the detail and sources can be read in this post on this thread: Jim Marr's comments on the James Files story: Has any of it been debunked?

• There seems to be a link between White, Oswald, and a secret CIA invasion force 1957 in Subic Bay, the Philippines.
• Roscoe White apparently had a connection to New Orleans, Louisiana.
• Roscoe White started work with the Dallas Police Department on October 7, 1963, less than two weeks before Oswald was hired at the TSBD and less than two months before the JFK assassination.
• It seems that Roscoe White owned a 7.65 Mauser rifle, the same type as was first identified as the assassination rifle on the sixth floor of the TSBD.
• Apparently Roscoe White was a skilled rifleman that specialized in surveying sites for target shooting.

As for where he was and what he was doing on November 22, 1963. I don't know. That's a good question. Since it was the middle of the day on a Friday, I assume that he was probably at work somewhere in the Dallas Police Department. One source (skeptical of White) says it's "established" (where and by whom I don't know) he worked at the DPD as a photographer, another source says that there was no official record of where or what division White worked in.

Those five principles are perfect advice for improvisation, that's for sure.

What does the assassination itself tell us if we consider it as one event in a larger pattern? It's hard to say without specifying the other events preceding it.

Applying those principles to the assassination itself might mean different things to different people. Here's how I would interpret them.

Forget about predictions - Don't try to have your conclusions always in mind as you're examining the relevancy of evidence that's new to you. If you already have a pet suspect in mind, it tends to make you, even subconsciously, reject evidence that clashes with your preconceived conclusion.

Focus on signals - Pay attention to the documented events that seem to connect to other individuals or organizations, especially if they can be supported by other witnesses or documentation. Also pay attention to evidence that has a questionable chain of evidence or has been subject to changes or falsification, as that evidence is likely the most crucial.

Look back to see forward - What were the biggest and most material changes in the wake of JFK's assassination? Where were the tides of history going in the time preceding, and in what direction did they go afterward? Cui bono? What individual, or organization, or government, or political policy benefited or changed the most?

Uncover patterns - Humans are big on perceiving patterns in what seems like chaos. Unfortunately, sometimes that makes us think we see patterns when there are none, like when we see faces and figures in the clouds. But,like the beat of a drum in the last minute is a decent predictor of the beat of the same drum in the next minute, patterns certainly serve their purpose for anyone attempting to predict future behavior.

Create a community - Well, we're here, aren't we?  Assassination research has always made progress when we work together for the larger goal of uncovering the truth.

Do the people who think Oswald acted alone believe that one of the bullets allegedly fired by Oswald missed and struck the curb near James Tague?

If a bullet missed, why did it miss?

Over the years I've heard at least three different Lone Nut explanations for the curb strike near Tague's feet, and I was curious if there was a current prevailing theory in the LN community.

Thanks!

Do you mean moles?

4 hours ago, Rick McTague said:

Denny,

In addition to your very informative post on Roscoe White, please consider this post relating the experiences of a 14-year old in police headquarters on 11.22.63, Mike Robinson.  To me, this lends credence to Roscoe White being one of the two who shot J.D. Tippit.  I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on his involvement beyond what you posted, given what Mike said he overheard in the locker room bathroom.

Thanks

 

It's a persuasive story, in my opinion. It would also appear to support Ricky's characterization of the Tippit encounter in the alleged first (and now missing) journal. It's a shame that hypnosis had to be used to recall any parts of Robinson's story, because that tends to throw some doubt. I'd give anything to know how much of Robinson's memories were independent recollection and exactly what parts were recovered through hypnosis.

On 3/12/2019 at 11:46 AM, Joe Bauer said:

And Danny, could you share your opinion on Roscoe White?

Sure thing. I found your comments on White interesting as well.

Please let me say that I recognize many people much more knowledgeable than I am and have been researching this for much longer disagree with me and believe that the “Roscoe White story” has been debunked years ago. For them this is very old news and ultimately unconvincing.

I personally believe that there was a concentrated effort by some parties to discredit the Roscoe White story at the time Ricky and Geneva were making their stories public. Geneva’s faked journal is used by many to dismiss everything about Roscoe White… fruit from the poisoned tree, so to speak. That doesn’t quite make sense to me, since it seems that much of the admittedly circumstantial evidence that raises red flags about Roscoe White predates Geneva’s journal.

From what I understand, the following claims listed below about Roscoe White seem to be true even if we do our best to disregard most of the statements and evidence brought forward by Ricky and Geneva.

It appears that Roscoe White did not have law enforcement jobs on his resume either before or after his two-year stint with the Dallas PD. Of course, that’s proof of nothing more than that White’s time as a law enforcement officer was unique in his short professional career.

Some people might argue that Roscoe White’s death at a young age could be considered suspicious. I don’t usually get into the suspicious death stuff, but it might be worth nothing when considering the entirety of the Roscoe White story.

Both White and Oswald left the Marine Corps suddenly, due to hardship and dependency discharges respectively.

-
In 1957 Roscoe White, Lee Harvey Oswald, and over five hundred other Marines traveled on the U.S.S. Bexar to Atsugi, Japan.

White married his teenage bride Geneva in 1956 and joined the United States Marine Corps a year later where he is stationed on the U.S.S. Bexar and sent to Japan. One of the other men on board was a Texan named Lee Harvey Oswald and following White's arrival in Japanese city of Atsugi he worked in the First Marine Air Wing. Advocates offer these connections between Lee Harvey Oswald and Roscoe White because they both are placed in the same military division and for a time sailed to Japan on the same military vessel. This biographic information is true; however, for context we might consider that over five hundred men were on the Bexar and roughly seven thousand other people were in the same Marine division.

https://www.tpaak.com/problems-in-black-and-white 

-

There also seems to be a possible link between White and Oswald, and the CIA.

In November of the same year [1957], both White and Oswald ended up in Subic Bay, the Philippines, and, later, off the course of Indonesia as part of a secret CIA invasion force planned for that island nation. Roscoe White wrote of the matter to his wife, Geneva, in letters that survive, complete with their naval-vessel postmarks. Oswald talked with Priscilla McMillan about the incident, as she testified to Warren investigators. The “maneuvers” were protracted; the Marines did not return to their original assignments for several months. Did White, Oswald, both, or neither become trained intelligence assets during this clandestine action?

“Oswald Talked” 1990 Ray and Mary La Fontaine, Pg. 334

-

Roscoe White apparently had a connection to New Orleans, Louisiana. I do not know how well this is documented, but it might be worth noting and exploring further since New Orleans is clearly a place where Oswald spent time and where other persons and events connected to the JFK assassination were located.

In the six years that followed, Rock White made a number of unexplained trips to New Orleans and other places. “I was never sure what was happening.” Geneva says, “but I was raised to let the man do the thinking and not ask questions.”

https://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/i-was-mandarin/

-

It appears Roscoe White’s wife Geneva worked for Jack Ruby for a short time.

Geneva worked for a few weeks as a hostess in Jack Ruby’s Carousel Club.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/i-was-mandarin/ 

-

Roscoe White started work with the Dallas Police Department on October 7, 1963, less than two weeks before Oswald was hired at the TSBD and less than two months before the JFK assassination.

(4) October 7, 1963
Letter from Curry to file. White employed 10/07/63 filling vacancy of Wm. Smith, 1 page.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/D%20Disk/Dallas%20Police%20Department/Dallas%20Police%20Department%20Disclosures%201992/Item%2003.pdf

-

Roscoe and Geneva White apparently had a third backyard photo with an alternate pose in their possession.

In 1976, when the Senate Intelligence Committee was probing the role of the intelligence agencies in investigating the assassination, it found another pose in the same series of pictures. This was in the possession of a Dallas policeman's widow, the former Mrs. Roscoe White. She said her husband had told her it would be very valuable one day. As the polite prose of the congressional Assassinations Committee was to put it later. Policeman White had "acquired" the picture in the course of his duties after the assassination. A fellow officer has mentioned making "numerous" copies of the Oswald pictures for his colleagues. However, even if this particular print was intended merely as a keepsake, why was there no copy of it in the evidence assembled for the official inquiry? It reflects, at best, astonishingly sloppy handling of evidence. Several officers must have known about this version of the photograph in 1963, for it shows Oswald in a stance with the rifle which was copied in police reenactment experiments. Perhaps, indeed, they once knew of more copies. The last act of this comedy of police work does nothing to still the suspicions of those who suspect hanky-panky with the rifle poses.

“The Kennedy Conspiracy” 1980 Anthony Summers, via https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKwhiteR.htm

-

Roscoe and Geneva White also had roughly 39 other photos of JFK stuff, including a picture of a naked, dead Oswald and Oswald’s ID card from the Department of Defense.

Included in the forty photographs were a picture of Oswald’s naked body on a morgue slab; numerous photos of Oswald’s personal possessions, including selective service and Marine service cards issued to Alek Hidell, Oswald’s alias; and a variation of the famous photograph of a smirking Oswald posing in a back yard with a rifle, a side arm, and copies of communist newspapers.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/i-was-mandarin/

And he had something else – something that as we’ve seen (chapter 3) could be construed as evidence that Oswald worked for the CIA. He had a picture of Oswald’s Department of Defense ID card.

“Oswald Talked” 1990 Ray and Mary La Fontaine, Pg. 335

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It seems that Roscoe White owned a 7.65 Mauser rifle, the same type as was first identified as the assassination rifle on the sixth floor of the TSBD. I do not know if this has been verified. Since it references a research team receiving the rifle, I don’t believe this factoid relies entirely upon the veracity of Ricky White alone:

One of the pieces of evidence that Ricky turned over to the research team was his father’s 7.65 Mauser.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/i-was-mandarin/ 

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Apparently Roscoe White was a skilled rifleman that specialized in surveying sites for target shooting.

He was a superb marksman, and frequently wrote of his duties on the rifle range. One of these included developing a specialty in “surveying target sites.”

“Oswald Talked” 1990 Ray and Mary La Fontaine, Pg. 334

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What were Roscoe White’s duties as a police officer for the Dallas Police Department? Page 7 of this following PDF of a 1990 draft of “The Roscoe White Story” author Paul Hoch says it’s “established” that White was working as a photographer for the DPD at the time of the assassination.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/W%20Disk/White%20Roscoe%20Miscellaneous%20Sources/Item%2031.pdf

But in 1975, Gerald Weatherly, assistant D.A. of Dallas County contacted the DPD and his contact said that there was no record of what division Roscoe White worked in during his two years as a Dallas police officer.

Today by phone Miss Slovacek of the Personnel Department of that Police Force told me, on consulting, as she said, a card in the records there, that Roscoe A. White “was employed” by and on that Police Force… but that that card “doesn’t say where or on what division or where he was working.”

“Oswald Talked” 1990 Ray and Mary La Fontaine, Pg. 337

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Okay, here are my opinions again.

I did my best, other than the possible New Orleans connection, to exclude what I felt were unverifiable claims that relied on Ricky or Geneva alone. Adding their claims, and those of others, there is much more that could be added to the “Roscoe White Story.”

Even removing the New Orleans connection and the possible ownership of a Mauser rifle, and dismissing the connections to Oswald and Ruby, it appears to me that some facts still stand. And in my opinion one fact stands out the most:

On the day of the assassination and for days afterward, Roscoe White had access to a Dallas police officer’s uniform and seemed to have unfettered access to critical JFK assassination evidence. There seems to be no question about that. Few things would be more valuable to conspirators, but that's only my opinion.

5 hours ago, Keyvan Shahrdar said:

Can you email the author?  I am really interested in the couple inside the north pergola.  As shown in the Wiegman film.

Amadeus appears to be correct. According to the Ciccone map, the couple northeast of Zapruder and Sitzman are Charles and Beatrice Hester

This brings back memories. The James Files confession video was one of the things I purchased when I was first getting into researching the JFK assassination. I didn't find his confession believable back then, and that was during a time when I knew almost nothing at all about the case. I've occasionally worried that I dismissed Files and his story too soon. I evaluated him almost entirely on his demeanor (and that I also believed anyone actually involved as a shooter would either be long gone or silenced long ago.) Not great reasons for dismissing someone's story without further research, but I wouldn't be honest if I said my views on Files haven't changed much in the years passed.

It seems I do disagree a bit with others here on Roscoe White, though. I don't believe that one must accept all aspects of the White family story if one believes that Roscoe White was likely involved. In my opinion, the circumstantial evidence is compelling. It's probably better to discuss that on a Roscoe White thread anyway.

I have physical copies of the Ciccone map and accompanying book. I could try emailing the author again for you if you'd like. 

22 hours ago, John Kozlowski said:

Found this not sure if it's the same but seems like it may be.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/reliving-nov-retired-tulsa-surgeon-was-working-at-dallas-hospital/article_4c2023ce-0651-59cb-9b61-25759ea152e2.html

Thanks very much!

Does anyone have a working link to this story?

Sorry, Jim. I wasn't trying to disparage those books or use "outdated" as a pejorative. I just wanted to acknowledge that much has been learned since they were written, as you yourself said in the introduction of your latest book. I'd continue to recommend the first edition of "Crossfire" to beginners and "Accessories After The Fact" to anyone wanting a useful reference book on the JFK assassination. A few months ago, I was able to quickly and easily find an obscure fact in "Accessories..." that had defied my Google-Fu, so I definitely believe "Accessories..." still has tremendous value. I apologize if it seemed like I was belittling either book.

Good luck, David. I don't know how anyone could teach a short course on this subject, especially using short texts and no full JFK books. I hope you'll keep us updated on how it goes. I'd be very curious as to the questions your students come up with after their first exposure to the subject.

Mark Lane's "A Lawyer's Brief" is quite outdated but still worth reading. Fidel Castro's two speeches also bring up some good points worth consideration.

For the anti-conspiracy side, I don't think you can do much better than the WC report and "Case Closed". "Reclaiming History" would be good for you to have on hand as a reference work when you want to use the index and know the LN side of any argument, but no one other than a dedicated researcher is ever going to read "Reclaiming History" book straight through.

It seems that you're not looking for books to use in the course, but maybe at the end you could provide a list of further reading for students who might have their interest sparked. Here would be a few of my suggestions to add.

"The JFK Assassination Evidence Handbook" by Mike Davis. Maybe the best current comprehensive JFK conspiracy book that's under 200 pages.

The first edition of "Crossfire" by Jim Marrs. Outdated, but IMHO for beginners a slightly more accessible book than most, including Marrs's own later edition.

"Accessories After The Fact" Sylvia Meagher. Also outdated but excellently organized and still quite useful, especially when examining the internal contradictions of the Warren Report.

"Head Shot" by G. Paul Chambers. Gives a decent overview of a few assorted aspects of the assassination from the perspective of a physicist, which makes it a bit different from many other JFK assassination books. And it's shorter than most, as well. (I think this is an important book that often gets overlooked.)

"Best Evidence" by David Lifton. It's long and much more focused on the medical evidence than giving an overview of the entire assassination. The personal narrative makes it compelling reading, it's educational when it comes to understanding the medical evidence, and of course the theory Lifton proposes makes it a landmark work whether or not you agree with his conclusion.

1 hour ago, Micah Mileto said:

Why an entrance wound in the throat as a fact? That area was covered in blood and only seen for a few seconds, not examined microscopically.

Dr. Baxter is quoted in the WC as saying the wound "could well represent either exit or entry wound" but completely contradicts himself in an interview taped in 1979, where he reportedly said it was an entrance wound.

Other than Dr. Baxter, I haven't found any medical professional from Parkland on record as saying JFK's anterior neck wound was possibly one of exit.

I also have not yet found a medical professional at Parkland that opined JFK's anterior neck wound was definitely one of exit.

Using Vincent Palamara's 2015 book "JFK: From Parkland To Bethesda" as my master source, I find that, in addition to Dr. Malcolm Perry and Nurse Audrey Bell, the following persons at Parkland also characterized JFK's anterior neck wound as one of entrance.

1. Dr. William Clark: "Dr. Kemp Clark...said that there were two wounds, a traumatic wound in the back of the head and a small entrance wound below the Adam's apple..." Pg. 1
2. Dr. Robert McClelland.: "this [the neck wound] did appear to be an entrance wound." ... "Dr. Robert Mc Clelland ... told me afterward that they still believed it [the neck wound] to be an entry wound." Pgs. 7-8
3. Dr. Marion Jenkins: saw an entry wound on JFK's neck; would let their 1963 observations stand. Pg. 13
4. Dr. Charles Carrico: "small penetrating wound of ent. neck" Pg. 14
5. Dr. Ronald Jones: "The hole [in the throat] was very small and relatively clean cut, as you would see in a bullet that is entering rather than exiting from a patient." ... "compatible with an entrance wound ... I would stand by my original impression." Pgs. 15-16
6. Dr. Gene Akin: "this [the neck wound] must have been an entrance wound..." Pg. 17
7. Dr. Paul Peters: "...we saw the wound of entry in the throat..." Pg. 19
8. Dr. Charles Crenshaw: "There were two wounds to the President that we observed at parkland. The first was a small and neat entrance wound to the throat..." Pg. 22
9. Dr. Charles Baxter: The wound in the neck was "no more than a pinpoint. It was made by a small caliber weapon. And it was an entry wound." Pg. 24
10. Dr. Joe Goldstritch: "...I realized how impossible it would have been for the neck wound I saw to have been an exit wound..." Pg. 44
11. Nurse Diana Bowron: "...the entry wound in his throat...looked like an entry wound." Pg. 33
12. Nurse Margaret Hinchliffe: "...a little hole in the middle of his neck ... About as big as the end of my little finger...An entrance bullet hole---it looked to me like...I have never seen an exit bullet hole---I don't remember seeing one that looked like that."; "...it was just a small wound and wasn't jagged like most of the exit bullet wounds that I have seen." ... "She also insisted the President had an "entry" wound in his throat." ... "Throat wound---Definitely an entrance wound. Resented Arlen Specter trying to get her to say it might be an exit wound..." Pgs 35-36

In summary,

Adding Dr. Perry and Nurse Bell, that seems to total 11 Parkland doctors and 3 nurses characterizing JFK's anterior neck wound as an entrance wound, with only one (Dr. Baxter) once saying that it could have either been entrance or exit, and then later contradicting himself and claiming that he believed it was one of entrance.

On the opposite end of this, there seems to be not one medical professional at Parkland who saw JFK's neck wound and consistently said that they believed it could have been either one of entrance or exit, or that they believed it was one of exit.