Michael Clark

15 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Chris,

I'm pleased to respond to this snippet, and to respond to some of your questions.  When Jenner asked Ruth what parts of the "Soviet Embassy Letter" alarmed her, she replied that she decided to make a copy of it.  You wrote:

[The answer, above, is unresponsive to the question - CN]

My response is that Ruth Paine is just getting started, so just give her some time.  Then you wrote: 

[What did keep her from picking up the phone and calling Hosty at the number he left?  This is never explained...]

Actually, the WC asked this same question, and Ruth's reply, IIRC, was that -- aside from being Veterans Day holiday, she really and truly believed that FBI agent James Hosty would arrive at her doorstep unannounced any day -- just as he had on November 1st and 5th.  She planned to give the letter to Hosty at that time.    Then you wrote:

 [Why not ask Lee, if Ruth was so averse to subterfuge, “Is this paper yours?”.]

Ruth Paine testified that she worried for hours about confronting Lee with this letter, but since the FBI was involved not only at her doorstep, but also in the content of this letter, she decided to let the FBI handle it.

Ruth testfied, IIRC, that on the night of November 11, 1963, she stayed up a little later that night, and so did Lee Harvey Oswald, and they watched TV together, alone.  Ruth almost said something at the point -- but decided against it.

If you continue in posting her WC testimony, all of this will become crystal clear. 

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

9 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

First off... I'm not interested in creating a narrative or fictional account whereby I tell you what Hosty or Oswald or either of the Paines were "thinking" or what their "intentions" were unless that bit of speculation is stated in evidence by their own testimony - about what they, themselves, were thinking. Everything else is hearsay, a legal term for "cow manure".

Your failure is your constant departure from reality, which is well represented by your post above. Everything you wrote above that was preceded by a number is a stinky steaming Texas sized cow patty.

It was Ruth's testimony wherein she describes the Nov. 1st meeting as an informal opening for confidence. I'm not quoting from Hosty's testimony.

Somewhere there is probably a forum for Ruth Paine fan fiction where you could practice "self-insert", if not I suggest creating it and peddling your wares there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_fiction

 

I think that about covers it..

12 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Where does he get that? 

Joe,

Most people have always believed that there was a conspiracy. I think that is what he must be talking about.

It seems to be commonly thought that Nixon never would have wanted these tapes to see the light of day. As crazy as it sounds, I believe that is a ruse. I believe Nixon was involved in the JFKA and he knew the perps. 

This tape would serve as evidence that he believed that LHO did-it; which is evidence that he, Nixon, knew no better. This is the ruse.

There is also the tape where he is asking about "this guy, Hunt" as if he did not know Hunt. Nixon is asking personal questions about Hunt, as if he did not know him. In the tape where they discuss the death of Dorothy Hunt, Nixon talks about how sad her death was and says something like "Oh, is he Catholic?".

I think these tapes were meant to be released, no matter how damming, as long it reduces his culpability in the JFKA. I'll call it a nearly-unlimited-hangout.

Edit*** I am not finding the following quote, from above, so I may have that wrong: "There is also the tape where he is asking about "this guy, Hunt" as if he did not know Hunt. "

Regarding Charles Cabell, from Wikipedia:

"...tape recordings from March, 1971 revealed that Garrison considered publicly implicating Cabell of conspiracy in the assassination of Kennedy"

Charles Cabell died on May 25, 1971, at 67 years of age. 

6 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

 

But my question is why was that not declassified earlier? Cabell died in 1975.  There was no reason to withhold it.

Am I missing something Jim? It seems obvious that the CIA was still covering it's tracks to the Dallas hit.

1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

David...do you honestly believe that Truth is established by majority opinion?

Yes, it's a debate and what you are experiencing, is called peer-review. Your submissions unfailingly get rejected and sent back for a do-over.

Among the people who can be objective here, none has said I was bad at this.

Wrong, there is an entire thread devoted to how little respect members have for your opinion. That's quite an accomplishment. I have little more than speculation to offer, but with some evidence and testimony, and acknowledging my speculation as such, I've received no thread personally dedicated to my folly.

You duck my challenges, too.

Your kidding, right? He is all over your myths and fallacies, and you just copy and paste them again in your next post

It's a '12' dude.

No it's not.

 And a 5pm postal stamp from Irving, Texas is perfectly plausible.

Not if he is in Dallas.

Admit it.

Good luck with that.

 

1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

David...that depends entirely on the IQ of the people.

Among the people who can be objective here, none has said I was bad at this.

You duck my challenges, too.

It's a '12' dude.  And a 5pm postal stamp from Irving, Texas is perfectly plausible.

Admit it.

--Paul Trejo

Paul, What David is referring to is research and debate. You do not do that. You are zealot who comes here to peddle your personal myth and fictitious prose about Ruth Paine and General Walker. That's all you do. It's zealotry and proselytization.

1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

So, the implication is that since Dallas Mayor 1963 Earl Cabell was a CIA asset, that the CIA-did-it CT gets a jump forward?

It's too pat; too predictable.  It proves nothing.  It remains just as possible that the Dallas Mayor was part of a local, Dallas-based plot by the Radical Right.

Totally unknown to the CIA.

Y'all give way too much credit to the CIA.

Local powers always have the upper hand -- if they take them.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Earl Cabell was the brother of The Deputy Director of the CIA whom Kennedy fired; Charles Cabell. 

But that means nothing to Paul Trejo. They would have to be conjoined twins for that to come under suspicion.

Like Ruth Paine's family attachements to the CIA and the MICC, and the official third-world raping agency, the USAID, "nothing to see here" according to Paul.

On 12/20/2013 at 11:55 AM, John Crites said:

I looked for that audio Pat, could not find it. Do you or does anybody have it and would like to post it?

I found the video/tape John was asking about.

It is some of the most disgusting stuff I have heard from Nixon. The YouTube video follows my response to the thread.

I never needed a conversion. I always knew that I did know how JFK was actually killed and I didn't know the real reason. My parents never talked about anything like controversial politics. I never really had a concept of an American Left and Right until college. My parents were depression era Catholics, so I would characterize them as fiscally and personally-moral conservatives; but they were not social conservatives.

My only conversion was a transformation from what could be addressed and spoken about. In my late teens I realized that the JFKA could and had to be spoken about.

Here is that awful video/tape that John asked-about.

4 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Chris,

Nice way of ducking out of my clear challenges to your weak position.

I know Ruth said those words, but SHE said that the words came from Hosty.  You just ducked my challenges -- typical.

As for your bias against Ruth Paine, it is very obvious.  You have nothing solid to support your bias, and you duck challenges.

Sheesh,
--Paul Trejo

Paul, you prevaricate and manipulate and misrepresent what is in the record more than Ruth does; ostensibly to protect her. It has the opposite effect.

As noted by another member: "In his vigorous defense of Ruth Paine, He (Paul Trejo) has ironically achieved the opposite of what is intended... I am more suspicious of her than before. (Another intentionally unattributed quote (unattributed for the purpose of maintaining forum-decorum))

1 hour ago, Chris Newton said:

. Everything you wrote above that was preceded by a number is a stinky steaming Texas sized cow patty.

At least Paul Trejo serves his cow patties in a gentlemenly way, and includes the salt.

Steve, when I was following another thread of yours, I was looking into this. I found that 10th did, at the time did pass through Patton at least to Crawford and possibly beyond to Becky. I wasn't following this same story you are following now so I don't recall making mental notes beyond Crawford. 

Edit, about a third of the way down you can see that tenth used to pass through Patton.

50 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Grain of salt, David Josephs.

............

So obvious,
--Paul Trejo

At least Paul provides a grain of the copious amount of salt which we must take with his assertions.

On 7/28/2017 at 7:39 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

Tom,

I know you’re interested in Igor Vaganov.  I was going through the John Armstrong online collection at Baylor and accidentally came across a lengthy article about Vaganov by John Berendt.  Have you read it?  Here’s the link:

http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/28787/rec/5

Easiest way to read it is to click the “Download” button toward the top right of the page and save it to your local machine.
 

I did not see this Esquire article in this thread. It is a good read, but a poor copy. 

4 hours ago, Ty Carpenter said:

Michael,

Do you figure the Liggett deal would be pre-planned in case his services were needed? Otherwise, I find it hard to negotiate a price during a family funeral and then leave. Unless it was an offer he couldn't refuse!

Lately, I have been thinking about the funeral homes themselves. You had the ambulance that picked up the supposed epileptic and also had several mysterious calls prior in what looks to be an attempt at timing the route. That was the Vernon O'Neil funeral home, and Liggett worked for I believe Restland. Just wondering if there is a connection or one central cog connecting the local funeral homes.

Vernon O'Neil also supplied the "bronze" casket. The government scoffed at the bill once it was received. They finally paid it at the request of Jackie and RFK. The cost amounted to the equivalent of $30,000 in today's money!

Regarding foreknowledge, It may be worth noting this. In the Igor Iganov thread, both Bill Kelley and Ed Hogan have variations of this quote "On November 21, Joan Anthis cried hysterically and said, “Turk is going to do something terrible tomorrow.” (Turk=Iganov)

I don't know the source, context or veracity of the quote, and my connection between Iganov and Liggett is speculative. I thought I would offer it anyway.

****edit... I found the article in which this was mentioned. I posted a link in the Vaganov thread.

6 hours ago, Ty Carpenter said:

Michael,

Do you figure the Liggett deal would be pre-planned in case his services were needed? Otherwise, I find it hard to negotiate a price during a family funeral and then leave. Unless it was an offer he couldn't refuse!

Lately, I have been thinking about the funeral homes themselves. You had the ambulance that picked up the supposed epileptic and also had several mysterious calls prior in what looks to be an attempt at timing the route. That was the Vernon O'Neil funeral home, and Liggett worked for I believe Restland. Just wondering if there is a connection or one central cog connecting the local funeral homes.

Vernon O'Neil also supplied the "bronze" casket. The government scoffed at the bill once it was received. They finally paid it at the request of Jackie and RFK. The cost amounted to the equivalent of $30,000 in today's money!

Ty, What I offered is too speculative and tentative too offer you an answer, other than to suggest he was a no questions asked, on-call kind of guy.

10 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

David,

..........

Lee Harvey Oswald spent Veterans Day (11/11/1963) at Ruth Paine's house, and then he got up early on the morning of Tuesday, November 12th at her home, and went to work.

Lee Harvey Oswald deposited his "Soviet Embassy Letter" in a public mailbox sometime during that day.   The letter carrier obviously picked up that mail before 5pm.   

 

5 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

As for my offering Warren Commission quotes -- I've offered perhaps more than any other writer here.  But still I get attacked for my views -- so I'm tired of all that work.  If a person doesn't want to crack a book and read it, that's their problem.

7 minutes ago, Ty Carpenter said:

Any thoughts as to who may have called Liggett away from the funeral? Also, who would have delivered that message?

Speculatively, I have Liggett involved with The Carousel Crew in the @ 32 hour period following the assassination. That would be Crafard, Senator, Ruby, possibly Iganov and who knows who-else. Ruby may have made calls and put things together, or, whoever was driving Ruby. I maintain a separation of the assassins and the clean-up /  post assassination logistics crew. So, it wasn't the anti-Castro Cubans who I am speculating were the assassins (disguised as Pro-Castro).

Those are my speculative thoughts....

16 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

Not a solid link to any of these guys.

Watergate... "The whole Bay of Pigs thing" .

8 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

The fact remains that the original debate we had back in 2012 about Harry Dean and General Walker in the "Billy James Hargis" thread is now DELETED forever, as in some sort of primitive book-burning ritual -- and is lost to perdition.

Ernie wrote, again:

FYI -- The FIRST comment regarding that Hargis article was posted on November 3, 2012 at 9:27pm.  The LAST comment was posted a year later on November 23, 2013 at 5:09am AND all comments between those two dates appear in the PDF file whose link I gave to you.

-------------------------

Paul Trejo is just making stuff-up, ad ininitum.

13 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

We know now that Oswald was taken off the FBI watch list just prior to the assassination; but how did OSWALD know it, so that he included it in. His letter to the Soviet embassy? Assuming that Oswald wrote the letter, of course.

The FBI doesn't exactly send you a notice when you're removed from their watch list. So either Oswald was connected in some way to the FBI, or he had an informant in the FBI who told him. Or he didn't write the letter, but someone with that knowledge wrote the letter. I won't point the finger at the Paynes here...because...how would THEY have known?

THIS should be the answer to seek. Answer this question, and you may have the JFK assassination mystery solved.

Iganov.. working the phone tap, directed by...

Hunt, who wrote the letter, (or informed LHO about his FBI status).... who was instructed by

MCcord, who was working off of plans drawn-up by.....

Liddy, who, with William F. Buckley were working with the nod of the NE establishment.

.?

At 22:00  "you pick up wetbacks in chihuaja, you back them in anything on wheels,

You promise them freedom and you give them death,  you are an assassin, you are a butcher!"

Not much has changed in 33 years, Rip Torn is great, great movie.

9 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

 

Finally, as for Ex-General Walker, in his WC testimony, Walker opines that Michael Paine may have been involved.

 

And Paul, as usual, shows no respect to forum members or the casual reader by not offering a Warren Commission quote. 

----------------------------

""Paul has told me point blank that he repeats himself ad infinitum in order to influence the casual passers by here."

(intentionally in quoted and no reference made to the originating thread)

7 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

The '1' is right there looking at you, and your reaction is just  DENIAL, DENIAL!

LHO wrote this letter on the weekend of 11/9/1963, to yank the FBI chain, and he did a GREAT JOB.

Then, LHO personally mailed it on 11/12/1963.

That much is clear to me.

What remains unclear is his cluster of motives ... to bug the FBI...to bug Ruth Paine...to continue to Fake being an official of the FPCC...to support Guy Banister and Interpen in their New Orleans operation...and what else??

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

 

He he he he!... lol!

I actually feel kind of bad, It is not my nature to be amused by watching another person crumble in a way that Paul is crumbling.

I am looking to reset myself, but not in this post!

39 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

Kenneth Carroll was a Swathmore Graduate. 

Swathmore (Donald Trump) and Phillidelphia keeps turning-up under ever stone that I look under.

http://www.swarthmore.edu/Library/friends/ead/5287carr.xml

Abstract

Kenneth Carroll was a professor of Religious studies at Southern Methodist University in Dallas beginning in 1952. He also spent a sabbatical at Haverford College as the T. Wistar Brown Fellow in 1969 and 1970 and retired to Easton, Maryland, in 1986. Carroll is a recognized authority on the history of the Society of Friends on the Eastern Shore of Maryland and Virginia and has written widely on this and other subjects. Collection primarily consists of correspondence related to Carroll's research and publications, but also includes writings and miscellaneous papers.

 

"Carroll is a recognized authority on the history of the Society of Friends on the Eastern Shore of Maryland and Virginia"

I keep getting drawn towards the Quaker angle. We're not talking about farmers and horse carts. And while pacifism sounds great, I am seeing that as more af an excuse to send other guys to die thing. William Buckley's father was buried in a NC Quaker cemetery, yet he was, I believe, Catholic.

14 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

Quoted from above: Mr. Dolva, that's way more than just curious!!!!!

 

"Another curious FWIW:

William Frank Buckley, Jr. (b. 1925)

— also known as William F. Buckley, Jr. — of Manhattan, New York County, N.Y. 

Born in New York, New York County, N.Y., November 24, 1925. 

Brother of James Lane Buckley; 

married 1950 to Patricia Taylor."

Ok, I jumped the gun, not James, bother of the famou WFB. Yet, the Buckleys had roots in Dallas.